| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Dhimmi Watch | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog | Raymond Ibrahim | Robert Spencer |  |
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In FrontPage this morning I discuss the Redeker case, and show that Muslims themselves have said, without incident, the same things Redeker said (news links in the original):
It has happened again. On the heels of global Muslim rage against Pope Benedict XVI – which led to riots and three killings of Christians – a teacher in France has gone into hiding after receiving death threats. His offense? He published a column in the French newspaper Le Figaro in which he characterized the Muslim prophet Muhammad as “a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist.”Redeker said that one of the threats he received stated: “You will never feel secure on this earth. One billion, three hundred thousand Muslims are ready to kill you.” As the death threats poured in, everyone abandoned Redeker. The teacher himself noted that France’s education ministry “has not even contacted me, has not deigned to get in touch to see if I need any help.” The senior editor of Le Figaro, Pierre Rousselin, declared on Al-Jazeera that he had been mistaken to publish Redeker’s article, and hastened to assure the Islamic world that the article did not reflect the opinion of the paper.
It was unclear what exactly those who are threatening Redeker are upset about. Were they contending that he had lied about Muhammad? If so, they must contend with the fact that many Muslims around the world seem to agree, unapologetically, that Muhammad was “a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist.” As I explain in my forthcoming book The Truth About Muhammad, mujahedin throughout the world see the Prophet of Islam as the personification of the qualities they are trying to embody. They have provided abundant evidence of this in recent years:
· Merciless war chief: On September 5, 2003, Sheikh Ibrahim Mudeiris invoked one of Muhammad’s battles, an expedition against the Byzantine empire known as the Battle of Tabouk, when speaking of the Iraq war in a sermon broadcast by the Palestinian Authority: “If we go back in the time tunnel 1400 years, we will find that history repeats itself…. Byzantium represents America in the west…. America will collapse, as Byzantium collapsed in the west….The Prophet [Muhammad] could, by means of unbroken ranks, conquer Byzantium, the greatest power compared to today’s America -- and this without a single martyr falling from among the Muslims….The Prophet could, by means of the unity of the Muslim ranks and its awakening, defeat the America of that time….America is our No. 1 enemy, and we see it as our No. 1 enemy as long as we learn from the lessons of the Battle of Tabouk [which took place in October 630 AD]: ‘Make ready for them whatever you can of armed strength and of mounted pickets’ [Koran 8:60]. We are prepared and ready, but victory is from Allah….”[i]On November 21, 2003, Muslims poured out of the Maiduguri Road Central Mosque after Friday prayers in the Nigerian city of Kaduna, demanding the implementation of Sharia law and distributing flyers stating: “The only solution is Jihad, the type of jihad put into practise by Prophet Muhammed and exemplified by Shehu Usman Dan Fodio and the late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran. We Muslims should unite and embrace this concept of jihad that will undoubtedly empower us to destroy oppression and oppressors, and in its place establish Islam.”[ii]
In October 2004, Sheikh Aamer Bin Abdallah Al-Aamer wrote this in the Al-Qaeda online journal Sawt al-Jihad: “Perform the Jihad against your enemies with your [own two] hands, sacrifice your souls and your property in fighting your enemy, as an imitation of [the acts of] your Prophet [Muhammad] in the month of Ramadan [and in order to] enrage your enemies.”[iii]
Fawwaz bin Muhammad Al-Nashami, the commander of the jihad group that killed twenty-two people in a jihad attack in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, on May 29, 2004, said that he acted in accord with Muhammad’s wishes for Arabia: “We are Mujahideen, and we want the Americans. We have not come to aim a weapon at the Muslims, but to purge the Arabian Peninsula, according to the will of our Prophet Muhammad, of the infidels and the polytheists who are killing our brothers in Afghanistan and Iraq….We began to comb the site looking for infidels. We found Filipino Christians. We cut their throats and dedicated them to our brothers the Mujahideen in the Philippines. [Likewise], we found Hindu engineers and we cut their throats too, Allah be praised. That same day, we purged Muhammad’s land of many Christians and polytheists.”[iv]
In the run-up to the 2004 American presidential election, a Muslim preacher invoked Muhammad to denounce democracy: “Our Prophet did not run for office in any election….He did not win any political debate. [Instead] he won the war against the infidel.”[v]
In a January 2005 article in Arab News, columnist Adil Salahi reminded his readers that Muhammad never made war on a people without first inviting them to convert to Islam: “During the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) lifetime the Muslim community had to fight many battles, because there were several sources of danger and many opponents who were keen to suppress the rising voice of the Islamic message. The Prophet made sure that in none of these battles the Muslims would exceed the limits of what is lawful in Islam….[H]e would not launch an attack without alerting the enemy and calling on them to accept Islam and live in peace with the Muslim state.”[vi]
London Muslim leader Hani Al-Sibaai in February 2005 justified the slaughters being perpetrated by Al-Zarqawi’s mujahedin in Iraq: “Do these people base themselves on Islamic law or not? They claim that they do, and to support it, they say that slaughtering appeared in a hadith by the Prophet, which was pronounces authentic by Sheik Ahmad Shaker. The Prophet told the Quraysh tribe: ‘I have brought slaughter upon you,’ making this gesture. But these are religious issues that may be disputed….[T]he Prophet drove nails into and gouged out the eyes of people from the ‘Urayna Tribe. They were merely a group of thieves who stole from sheep herders, and the Prophet drove nails into them and threw them into the Al-Hrara area, and left them there to die. He blinded them and cut off their opposite legs and arms. This is what the Prophet did on a trifling matter – let alone in war.”[vii]
· Plunderer: On March 28, 2003, the Palestinian Sheikh Muhammad Abu Al-Hunud warned in another sermon broadcast over Palestinian Authority television against those who would attempt to “mess with Allah’s book, to Americanize the region, Americanize the religion, Americanize the Koran, Americanize Muhammad’s message….” Any doubt that he meant by this that the Qur’an and Muhammad’s message would be stripped of their violent components were dispelled when he prayed about the Americans in Iraq: “Allah, make their possessions a booty for the Muslims, Allah, annihilate them and their weapons, Allah, make their children orphans and their women widows….”[viii]
As late as November 2003, the website of the Islamic Affairs Department (IAD) of the Saudi Arabian embassy in Washington, D.C. contained exhortations to Muslims to wage violent jihad in emulation of Muhammad, and quoted Muhammad’s words about plunder: “Whoever of My slaves comes out to fight in My way seeking My pleasure, I guarantee him that I will compensate his suffering with reward and booty (during his lifetime) and if he dies, I would forgive him, have mercy on him and let him enter Paradise.”[ix]
· Slaughterer of Jews: A jihadist explaining that the Israeli/Palestinian struggle was more than just a nationalist conflict over land declared: “But all of these people don’t realize that our struggle with the Jews goes way back, ever since the first Islamic state was established in Madeenah with Muhammad (SAWS) the Messenger sent to all of mankind, as its leader. Allaah has related to us in the Qur’ân, the reality of the Jews’ malice and hatred for the ummah of Islaam and Tawheed, as he says: ‘You will surely find that the people with the most enmity towards the believers are the Jews and the polytheists.’ (Surah Al-Maa’idah: 82) [Qur’an 5:82].[x]
In July 2006 a writer on a British Muslim Internet forum declared: “I’m so fed up with these dirty, filthy Israeli dogs. May Allah curse them and destroy them all, and may they face the same fate as Banu Qurayzah!”[xi] This was an Arabian Jewish tribe that was massacred on Muhammad’s orders, and with his participation, after he came to believe that they had betrayed him. Muhammad’s first biographer, Ibn Ishaq, puts the number of those killed at “600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900.”[xii]
· Polygamist. It is not disputed by anyone that Muhammad had many wives. Muslim apologetic websites do not deny the fact, but celebrate it: Islam Online says of Muhammad’s wives that “they gave advice to their husband when he needed it, went with him to battle to nurse the wounded, accompanied him on his travels. They preserved the memory of intimate details of their married life in order to educate succeeding generations in the rules of purification and relations between spouses.”
These are not the slanders of “Islamophobes.” These are the statements of people who consider themselves to be pious and knowledgeable Muslims, who wouldn’t dream of insulting Muhammad. It is noteworthy also that at least those who spoke in televised sermons seemed to assume that their Muslim audience would also know and accept that Muhammad behaved the way they say he did. Nor were there any protests raised against these or similar statements by other Muslims anywhere in the Islamic world. So why is Robert Redeker in fear for his life after threats for saying, in effect, what many Muslims around the world themselves say?
It would appear that his chief crime was in saying these things as a non-Muslim, and in a disapproving way. Those Muslims who have issued threats to Redeker seem to be attempting to extend the traditional Islamic legal tenet forbidding non-Muslims in the Islamic state to insult Allah or Muhammad to any critical discussion of Muhammad by non-Muslims. It seems to be acceptable for non-Muslims to speak about Muhammad only if they speak as if they were believers, or with the sensibilities of believers paramount in their considerations. Even the noted moderate Muslim spokesman Akbar Ahmed of American University recommends something like this when speaking of the rage against Pope Benedict XVI. Ahmed hedges his support for free speech with an appeal to be sensitive to the consequences of speaking out: “Although I totally support free speech and freedom of expression, and have been saying so publicly, all of us need to be sensitive to the culture and traditions of other faiths. I am not talking of a purely academic or idealistic discussion but the possibility of people losing their lives as a result of some perceived attack on faith made across the world. I believe that the lives lost and the properties destroyed—including mosques and churches—after the Danish cartoons controversy erupted could have been avoided had there been people of greater wisdom and compassion at the start of the crisis.” (Ahmed’s “mosques and churches” statement is curious, since those who were angered by the Pope’s statement destroyed churches in Gaza, the West Bank, and Nigeria. They destroyed no mosques.)
Ahmed seems to be saying in effect that non-Muslims should tread lightly about Islamic topics simply because violence might ensue. But if someone reacts violently to another’s words, particularly if those words would be inoffensive coming from someone else, the fault lies with the one who is reacting, not with the speaker. The threats to Redeker, following so closely on the global outrage at the Pope, are yet another example of the jihadist attempt to frighten and intimidate the West into chastened silence.
That makes it all the more crucial, in these perilous times, for free people to speak out.
[i] Steven Stalinsky, “Palestinian Authority Sermons 2000-2003,” Middle East Media Research Institute, Special Report No. 24, December 26, 2003.
[ii] Adeyeye Joseph and Agaju Madugba, “Bomb Scare in Lagos,” This Day, November 22, 2003.
[iii] “Al-Qa’ida Internet Magazine Sawt Al-Jihad Calls to Intensify Fighting During Ramadan -- ‘the Month of Jihad,’” Middle East Media Research Institute, Special Dispatch No. 804, October 22, 2004.
[iv] “Commander of the Khobar Terrorist Squad Tells the Story of the Operation,” Middle East Media Research Institute Special Dispatch Series No. 731, June 15, 2004.
[v] Amir Taheri, “Kerry Wins The Arab Vote,” New York Post, August 18, 2004.
[vi] Adil Salahi, “No Fighting Before Explaining Islam,” Arab News, January 31, 2005.
[vii] “London Islamist Dr. Hani Al-Sibaai Justifies Slaughters in Iraq: The Prophet Muhammad Used to Slaughter As Well,” Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) Clip No. 576, February 22, 2005.
[viii] Steven Stalinsky, “Palestinian Authority Sermons 2000-2003,” Middle East Media Research Institute, Special Report No. 24, December 26, 2003.
[ix] Steven Stalinsky, “The ‘Islamic Affairs Department’ of the Saudi Embassy in Washington, D.C.,” Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) Special Dispatch No. 23, November 26, 2003.
[x] “Our Struggle with the Jews is a Struggle for Existence, Not a Struggle for Land,” Al-Asaalah Magazine, Issue 30. http://www.allaahuakbar.net/jew/our_struggle_with_the_jews_is_a_struggle_for_existence.htm.
[xi] Yaakov Lappin, “UK Islamists: Make Jihad on Israel,” YNet News, July 2, 2006.
[xii] Ibn Ishaq, 464.
Posted by Robert at October 2, 2006 7:31 AM
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What may be recognized, in a whisper, by some "within the family," can never ever be said by those without. That is the motto of many, not only of Cosa Nostra. But most members of this fanatical faith -- fanatical in posse, and in esse, far more than others now called "religions" -- are unlikely to conclude, from the same facts that M. Redeker knew of, that Muhammad was “a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist.” That he led 77 expeditions and was ruthless in his dealings with those who refused to yield to him, that he took booty and even established rules for the distribution of such booty, that he massacred Jewish tribes who refused to submit to him, or even Jews who had no dealings with him whatsoever, as the inoffensive farmers of the Khaybar Oasis, that he had 9 or 11 wives, depending on whom you count -- all this is true, but to have a non-Muslim write or say that Muhammad was "a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist" is simply -- not allowed. It can be known, and it can be reveled in, by a billion Muslims. But not a single non-Muslim is permitted to notice this.
For the world is divided, in Islam, between Muslim and non-Muslim, Believer and Infidel. Infidels are not permitted to express any view of Islam that is critical. It would not be right, it would not be just. Come to think of it, Muslims are not permitted to express criticism of Muhammad either, but for Muslims, speaking to a Muslim audience, some will describe Muhammad with pride as "a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist" in those or very similar terms, and others will express the same thing in a different, slightly more muted way. But in either case the description cannot be taken as criticism. For whatever Muhammad did was right. He is the Perfect Man, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil. Were he not the Perfect Man, Islam itself might crumble.
In Redeker's case -- he being an Infidel -- his articulating the very aspects of Muhammad's life that Muslims are taught not as deplorable but as part of his entirely admirable existence, have earned him the murderous threats he has received.
There is no contradiction here. This is your brain. This is your brain on Islam.
Posted by: Hugh![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 2, 2006 8:32 AM
Can anyone tell me where this will all end ?
Will Islam ever reform or are we facing a never ending conflict that will escalate until no one is left to remember the West or Islam?
I ask these questions because the time to act is NOW. Dont spend money with Muslims, Educate your friends and family. Lobby your political leaders, stand for office, write to your media and politely inform them and correct them etc ...
Just do something.
Jihad Watch is helpful in our quest, but its actions outside of this blog that really matter.
Your thoughts Robert..
at October 2, 2006 8:59 AM
Churchill1939, I think most people know where this is going to end. We seem to be putting the inevitable on hold for as long as possible. I wonder how much longer befor we have to face the facts, islam = death.
Posted by: AMartinez at October 2, 2006 9:08 AM
Churchill1939
This will eventually lead to the death of the Western Civilization if WE decide to do nothing. We must not JUST resist, we must ATTACK while we have the upper hand in this situation. The muslims will never stop unless we kill all their religious leaders (important or not important ones). Actually it will be fine if we totally vanquish their religion. Prognosis is better than therapy. In other words, erase them while you can, or else this will turn the other way around. I come from a country that suffered for 4 centuries from these bestiality products (called “Muslims, Lovers of Peace™”) and it still has problems that can be traced back to that era. Don’t do the same mistake that my ancestors did. Don’t wait for GOD intervention. Listen, my fellow Westerners, TAKE ACTIONS!!!!!!!
at October 2, 2006 9:13 AM
Churchill1939
This will eventually lead to the death of the Western Civilization if WE decide to do nothing. We must not resist, we must ATTACK while we have the upper hand in this situation. The muslims will never stop unless we kill all their religious leaders (important or not important ones). Actually it will be fine if we totally vanquish their religion. Prognosis is better than therapy. In other words, erase them while you can, or else this will turn the other way around. I come from a country that suffered for 4 centuries from these bestiality products (called “Muslims, Lovers of Peace™”) and it still has problems that can be traced back to that era. Don’t do the same mistake that my ancestors did. Don’t wait for GOD intervention. Listen, my fellow Westerners, TAKE ACTIONS!!!!!!!
at October 2, 2006 9:13 AM
AllahIsDead YOU ARE BARBARIC !
Proposing the nuking of 1.2 billion HUMAN BEINGS who are decendants of the conquered or misguided/forced recent converts is babaric and facist. To propose such a thing makes me wonder if you shouldn't join Islam as they could use someone as bloodthirsty as yourself.
EDUCATE THEM ... Show them the light.. (Not Nuke Light).
DROP LEAFLETS NOT BOMBS - Do a weekly leaflet drop onto thier capital cities.
Posted by: Churchill1939 at October 2, 2006 9:15 AM
Why is it that when Muslims speak of these things they are prideful of them yet when an "infidel" brings these sort of things up they must be attacked for blasphemy? Seems like Islam speaks out of both sides of its mouth.
As for the French government and its lack of support for Redeker:Daladier and his fellow 1938 appeasers are still running things in spirit. Shame on them all!
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 2, 2006 9:16 AM
What separates us from them is our HUMANITY
I'm no liberal but we have to Unconvert them - its already happening to many muslims who become apostates and leave Islam for Christianity.
It will take much longer but we will be saving them rather than destroying them.
Posted by: Churchill1939 at October 2, 2006 9:27 AM
Will Islam ever reform NO !
This Cult was created to justify the excesses of one man and one man alone. It served his material needs and gave the Arab a sense of unity that he lacked when the Jews had their coherent and exclusive God tailored to their status as The Select.
Mohammed gave the Arabs their own ethnocentric Cult, their language as Allah's language of choice, and he locked it into an eternal loop by saying it was Final, incapable of Evolution, Interpretation or any other prophet.
That it spread by violence and fear and entrapped its members from the moment they were born - no baptism, no excommunication, simply defined the nomadic tribe against all others. A control system.
Has it never occurred to anyone to wonder why it was not until one-man-one-vote democracies had become full welfate-states that mass-immigration from Muslim countries took place into Western lands ?
Simply because noone cared, it was public money and noone believed it was their money. In previous centuries the ruling class knew whose money it was and whose culture and heritage, they knew Latin and Greek, they knew why cities had walls. it is only in the days of "every man a consumer" when people have lost understanding of Religion and Faith and History that such things could happen.
Those inside the castle were carousing and partying when the drawbridge was lowered and the gates opened.
Posted by: Voyager at October 2, 2006 9:30 AM
DROP LEAFLETS NOT BOMBS - Do a weekly leaflet drop onto thier capital cities.
Britain and France did that over Germany in 1939...........the Poles were busy trying to survive.
Posted by: Voyager at October 2, 2006 9:32 AM
Churchill1939, i totally agree with you!.. and this is what i am trying to tell the people on this blog.. as a muslim, and not a jihadist :).. i know that islam followers problem is their lake of flexibility, their poor knowledge, their ignorance of how things go on in our days..
but the west, i can see some of his non open-minded attitudes toward muslims.. most of westerns treat all muslims equally as jihadists..
me and the rest of young and open minded muslims, should show this to the other muslims.. this is hard.. for example, the number of muslims who think like me that i know; is less than 5.. we need to work together to reform our islam :) only 5,.. but i see them very rarely.. because we have our work, and we are busy in life..
i guess good europeans and americans are the candidate to work with us to do this!.. because in our countries we are handicaps, we are paralysed. we see how you separated the religion from the state.. we need this, in parallel we need to reform the islam..
thanks,
at October 2, 2006 9:33 AM
Redeker's case is a new thread to the main problem Western civilization is facing against Islamic obscurantism. Redeker's claims about the Mohamed are not claim of value. They are claims of facts. Facts substanciated by Arab and Islamic historians. The crux of the matter of the Redeker's case and any other cases before it(i.e., Rushdie, Sultan, Nisrin etc..) and and soon Spencer is that it seems that the Muslim communities and all muslim apologists take these claims to be statements of value. And of course they are not. Any value judgement can be sometimes difficult to defend without being subjective, but claims of facts are facts. Thus, there is no debate about them unless the other party brings forth a new set of facts that contradict the earlier ones. We all know that the Muslims do not have a case, thus they resort to threat, intimidation and some to extreme violence.
It is obvious from all what transpired in the debate about Islam and more specifically Islamic fundamentalism that the statements made about Mohammed are true. The Salafists do not deny them (Khobar case), they agree with them and act upon them to rid Arabia and all Muslim lands of the infidels and apostates. It is the apologists, the semi-Westernized "moderate" muslims, those children are culturally lost and who are desperately trying to debate a dead issue about the true qualities of Mohammed and more absurdly trying to kill Redeker and kill the notion of free speech itself. I hope the French will protect the philosopher who dared to say what he thinks, staging sit ins and demonstrations for which the French public are good at. The irony of it all is that this bold philosopher is only saying the truth.
I am not sure who made the analogy (Bertrand Russell?) that Mohammed was like Stalin. He came from humble backgroound, get rid of his opponents silently, stage wars against any group not willing to submit to his iron fist, and then create a negative utopia. Is that a cult of personality of what? No wonder Stalin was the favorite political figure of Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: sammish at October 2, 2006 9:38 AM
Karma,
Thank you for your thanks.
The Koran seriously needs to be edited. I know most muslims wont like this but it is the only way. Take out the orders to kill jews and unbelievers. Eradicate the doctrine of Jihad and Dhimmi. Seperate Mosque from state and reform - shariah - make it in line with universal human rights. Banish the horrific punishments and establish a proper legal code based on Justice.
Start all this by teaching your children and friends the way of Peace and Live and let live.
Jesus said "he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword".
Posted by: Churchill1939 at October 2, 2006 9:47 AM
Oh yes they will -
You just need to try
We should of course fight when attacked / threatened with a nuke (Iran in the future).
But we should never give up on them reforming - otherwise no muslim would ever leave islam.. and they do.
Many muslims know what Mo did was wrong. Many know what others in history have done is wrong.
There's the beginning of a reformation
Seeds will grow if we sow
Posted by: Churchill1939 at October 2, 2006 10:06 AM
This is to alert my infidel brothers here to the kind of the justification/apologist/denial mindset that exists like a deeply-embedded-virus-which-never-goes-away in India's intelligentsia and media. Take a look at these:
"In the new world order that came about after WWI and WWII, Muslims felt they were cheated out by everyone- the Christian West, the Hindus, the Russians, etc. [...] In this religion and its teachings, they search for words of hope. [...] In their religion they derive their strength to fight those who put them to shame, who razed their homes to ground [...] They fight back with the only weapon they have- their religion. And they participate in all kinds of protest- some show discontent, criticize, rally and strike, while few others terrorize, murder, kidnap, all in the name of that religion. Each of them, the mild protester to the rabid suicide killer has sympathy from this Muslim world. Every act of defiance, whether it is a strong speech at UN or a bomb blast at an embassy, is a way of venting out the frustration of this Muslim world." Link: http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/islam-vs-rest-of-world.html
"The reasons why some of the Muslims of the present-day are violent are found elsewhere. [...] The Rest of the World, instead of waking up to recognize its posture and stance, rectify its mistakes, admit its wrongs, is unnecessarily trying to find faults, flaws and explanations in the origins and practices of Islam. Rest of the World has to realize that ‘problem with Islam’ is rooted in certain historic mishaps, prolonged mistakes, and continued alienation that it has imposed onto Islam in the last hundred years. Only when this Rest of the World wakes up to admit it and take measures to correct itself shall we see Islamic world take a step back and be at peace with itself and the Rest of the World. " Link: http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/islam-vs-rest-of-world-ii.html
"The independence movement of Indian sub-continent threw open two nations, one which decided to form itself on the name of religion (Islam), another on secular principles but dominated by one religion (Hinduism). The partition resulted in an unresolved conflict (in Kashmir). India reneged on its promises to hold plebiscite to this region and held onto Muslim dominated region despite the people’s longing to be independent or be with Pakistan. Even after fifty years of Independence, India holds onto this land against the will of its people, with half-million troops to rule over few millions living there. While India was a champion of freedom movements worldwide and supporter of democratic institutions elsewhere, it has meticulously destroyed every legitimate representation of people in this region. How can Muslims of the world not see this as another case of Rest of the World controlling and ruling them against their will? They see it as another hypocrite nation which seems to uphold certain principles elsewhere but chooses not to practice them when it comes to Muslim regions. Kashmir gladly invites people from different Muslim nations to fight their war for freedom against India." Link: http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/islam-vs-rest-of-world-iii-post-ottoman.html
Look how subtly the author manufactures justification for terrorism, whether in Kashmir or elsewhere by forwarding a dubious "Muslims are oppressed, so it is justified if they become terrorists" line of reasoning.
Look how he subtly invents facts. For example, he claims "it (India) has meticulously destroyed every legitimate representation of people in this region" while the reality is that every representation in Kashmir, legal and even illegal, enjoys ALL the rights that come with living in the liberal democracy of India.
If terrorists are a big threat to the world, then seemingly rational people who go out of their way to provide justification for terrorists and their activities are a much bigger threat. It is important to tackle these perverts first.
Posted by: Atlantean at October 2, 2006 10:17 AM
I for one think we've tried to appease ole moe far to long. Its time to respond with the force needed to destroy this so called religion. This is nothing more than a cult. And one day America will pay the price for their slow responce. I just wished Israel had finnished their task at hand. Maybe in due time. Any fool that thinks you can drop leafletts, and moe will respond with kindness is as lost as a basterd son a a familey reunion.
Posted by: AMartinez at October 2, 2006 10:18 AM
Karma,
How can Americans or Europeans who are not Muslims aid you in your quest? We are the evil infidel. We can't even set foot in the Middle East without being called Crusaders, even when we are going to the aid of Muslims. We saw Palestinians cheer as Saddam fired missiles at coalition fighters in 1991 when they set out to free Kuwait. A Muslim scholar termed the FIRST Gulf War as one of aggression by the West against Islam.
In short, outsiders cannot reform Islam. The fight must be waged within the Muslim ummah. I don't see what we can do except isolate ourselves from the Muslim world until it solves its own problems. The Islamist is a virus that will destroy Western society. His fellow Muslims are the only ones who can vanquish him.
at October 2, 2006 10:25 AM
I can live with Islam if it does reform itself (if that is possible) to the point that it can live in peace with the rest of the world. However, PMK is right- reform will have to come from within the Islamic world-anything outsiders do to help will be deemed interference. The problem is how long can the world wait for this reformation before the Islamic crazies really get going on their jihad?
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 2, 2006 10:32 AM
Voltaire must be watching all of this from the next world, watching what has been done to Redeker, what is being done to him. The spirit of Voltaire must be restless.
Since 1933 (when Hitler took power) there have been three major attacks on the 18th century Enlightenment that Voltaire was so much a part of and which promoted freedom (the unlimited right to reason, to think) and freedom of speech (the right to express ideas and opinions based on facts observed through the 5 senses). Voltaire was hunted by government and church and the attempt was made to silence him because he questioned a belief-system with facts and logic-reason. (Solzenitzen posed a similar challenge to the Soviet belief-system.) In both cases reason-logic finally prevailed.
However, with Hitler and Nazism it took Allied bombers and huge armies to bring Germany to reason. I'm afraid the same fate awaits the Islamic Mideast. Bad habits of reason-logic, a fanatical treatment of beliefs as if they are fact, will lead to an act of bad judgement by Mideast Muslims that will bring a nuclear catastrophe to the Muslim Mideast.
Maybe Jesus was right when Jesus warned, "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword". Voltaire might agree.
Posted by: Frank at October 2, 2006 10:37 AM
They want the truth concealed until enough of them have infiltrated the West to stage a mafia-like takeover.
Posted by: Benjamin at October 2, 2006 10:41 AM
to anyone who thinks that we as the west can change or convince islam to behave and to not kill and try to convert us, forget about it!!
This is a sure way to lose. I still can not believe how silly some of us think. Make nice to the doggie, and lose your hand. Islam is like a bit bull that is very well trained for one thing, to force itself on all who are not moslem.
Try this on for size, like it or not this war will not go away ever. It will either be won or lost but it will not go away.
If we insist on making nice to the doggie we will lose more and more until we are lost. that is the grand plan. Don't pull the wool over your eyes.
if they had nukes right now we would be nuked no questions asked, our survival up to now has been from better weapons and more money.
we need to secure our future before we can not.
Posted by: sado1 at October 2, 2006 11:00 AM
but know that we should defend ourselves every step of the way, and with whatever measures necessary in order to defend ourselves from muslim jihadists who aim to take over our countries and kill those who do not conform.
Posted by: americaningermany
Eminently sensible.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 2, 2006 11:01 AM
ALL religions are man-made.
These clashes are all part of human nature.
We are all animilistic, and one of our base instincts is fighting.
The fundo muslims are like muggers who rob u at knifepoint.
the fundo Christians are like those white-collar criminals who rob u without u knowing.
The former are more scary the latter more successful.
Both sides are fighting to fulfil prophecies in their own respective holy books.
Thats why Jerusalem is important to both of them.
Thats why all the rest is a smokescreen.
By the way you do know that the US and Mossad knew about 9/11. Dont get me wrong they didn't organise it, inspire it, fund it but they allowed it because it served their purpose.
It was jihadis who carried it out.
And why cant that mullah from Iran wipe Israel off the map, the Zionist managed to wipe Palestine off the Map.
And if you tell me that the Jews were there before the Arabs then lets give the US and Australia back to the Natives and the Aborigines.
Posted by: choc at October 2, 2006 11:07 AM
Churchill1939
Your principled response is flawed in that it examines the problem from a western paradigm.
In order for lasting change to occur in islam, the change must come from within, not be imposed from without. This lesson is being learned in Iraq. The imposition of change from without is, in general, doomed to failure.
The change must come from within, it is only when the religious leaders begin unformly teaching peace and tolerance can the cycle of hatred and violence be broken. That, to me, is the key to the future. If a muslim majority, innoculated with the message of hate, is imposed on the world then the future is quite bleak.
The million dollar question is whether islam is sufficiently mature to realize that the message being taught in mosques around the world MUST change to reflect the enlightened mentality of 21st century rather than the xenophobic mentality of the 6th century.
The leaflets you mention are useless if the message that is taught by your purported 'moral' leader is contradictory. Living in a society of fear and oppression, you're much more likely to listen to those who can physically harm you or your family than those that drop paper from the sky.
Posted by: Shinola at October 2, 2006 11:08 AM
Churchill1938 writes:
"AllahIsDead YOU ARE BARBARIC !
Proposing the nuking of 1.2 billion HUMAN BEINGS who are decendants of the conquered or misguided/forced recent converts is babaric and facist. To propose such a thing makes me wonder if you shouldn't join Islam as they could use someone as bloodthirsty as yourself. "
Churchill1939 YOU ARE A HYSTERICAL IDIOT !
Proposing leafletting and education makes me
wonder if you shouldn't just join Karen Armstrong
and her ilk as a shill for the Mohammadans. What
next, little origami birds?
I didn't see any mention of nukes in AllahIsead's
post, just "erasing" Islam. Obviously, killing
all one billion Muslims with a nuclear attack is
impractical, however, the use of any and every
weapon of war (nukes, sieges, propaganda, comedy,
deportations, whatever) should be considered. I
personally think that if we had spines that deportation (of all Muslims), disengagement, and
a combination of relentless truth telling about
Muhammad and COMEDY (ridicule) would be enough.
No nukes necessary. No way I'd rule out their use
though, if the situation changes, more drastic
measures may be necessary.
Karma, "young and open minded Muslim"? Really?
You worship the sock puppet of a savage pirate
and pedophile, and then hold this pedophile as
the perfect man for all time? Come off it man,
I realize that it's hard to abandon the faith of
your fathers, but Muhammad was a monster. Even if
Christians and Buddhists (I am neither) may have
been bad over the millenia, neither Jesus nor
Buddha were monsters, far from it.
at October 2, 2006 11:26 AM
The muslims will also loose this attempted blackmail, just as they lost the cartoon thing;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonprotests/story/0,,1884506,00.html
Posted by: seville844 at October 2, 2006 11:27 AM
Leaflets from the sky was a suggestion.
If they are all indoctrinated into hatred and this by thier leaders then there is no hope.
Islam is Evil - but muslims were not born evil.
You cannot fight evil with evil
Nuking them is not the answer. If we did that (except in retaliation), then the west would be as evil as them.
This Crusade will continue for generations to come - if only there was a solution.
Posted by: Churchill1939 at October 2, 2006 11:30 AM
Ok here we go again choc,My President and the Jooooo's knew about 9-11. What a croc, choc.
Posted by: AMartinez at October 2, 2006 11:31 AM
Nuking them is not the answer. If we did that (except in retaliation), then the west would be as evil as them.
While I am not advocating nuking the whole of islam, did the use of atomic bombs to end WWII make us "evil"?
Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 2, 2006 11:32 AM
the US and Mossad knew about 9/11. Dont get me wrong they didn't organise it, inspire it, fund it but they allowed it because it served their purpose.
Posted by: choc
How did this serve US interests? This idea from a conspiracy theory is like the one that says Roosevelt knew ahead of time about Pearl Harbor.
The only interests served by that atrocity was that of Bin Laden and his ilk in making a bloody statement to apall the world.
at October 2, 2006 11:40 AM
We are going to have to get tougher in this war. Even here at JW we cringe at the thought of real warfare. Do you not think if Zawahri could get a nuke or a huge can of Raid® he wouldn't use it in a minute? He wouldn't wring his hands and think about how he would be evil as us.
We have got to get our minds wrapped around the fact that islam wants to kill us all. They are coming and we just want to talk and hide in the closet until they come to their senses. The mission of islam is written down for all to see, it hasn't changed in 1400 years. Time for the civilized world to meet the enemy, and vanquish it.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 2, 2006 11:42 AM
I hate to admit it....I don't think our generation will fight islam successfully. It will be left to our children or grandchildren to do. We don't have the guts.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 2, 2006 11:52 AM
I really need to buy the Quran and all the books around it such as History, interpretations,etc. in order to leave no argumentation left for the muslims.
One muslim friend told me that in Argelia, there is not self-criticism in school. This is not taught to their children how to interpret in different ways what a text is said, or question that text. NEVER!
So, how can muslims from North Africa to India, question themselves??? No wonders that if they are questioned by others, they start a riot. They are miles away in terms of education and human thinking.
They are generally very smart in their studies here in Europe and we should not underestimate them. And they like to play 'chess'with the West making use of our pityness or human compassion.
Unfortunatly, I do not have human compassion anymore for my enemy as I am not Jesus. And I will defend my culture.
at October 2, 2006 11:52 AM
One muslim friend told me that in Argelia, there is not self-criticism in school. This is not taught to their children how to interpret in different ways what a text is said, or question that text. NEVER!
So, how can muslims from North Africa to India, question themselves??? No wonders that if they are questioned by others, they start a riot. They are miles away in terms of education and human thinking.
Posted by: EuropeanResistance
That's the main problem with Islam as it now stands. Nobody can ask even the most innocent question. Never ask any questions-do so and die. Just like the Nazis and Communists-mindlessly accept the dogma.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 2, 2006 12:02 PM
Some muslim lovers, as I see, find me barbaric for proposing to take ACTIONS. Probably because their ancestors have not felt the "Sword of Islam" on their heads. Churchill and the rest of the Islam lovers, have you ever been a soldier (I have been for my national service) in the army of a country that its borders is constantly violeted by agressive muslims? I doubt. Probably you are from the USA, far away, surrounded by hostile countries like ... Canada and Mexico. Oh, I forgot Cuba, oh what a threat... These muslim dogs have killed,murdered,raped and continue to show the same attitude. And they are supposed to be the most westernized muslims in the entire World. THAT IS SHIT!
And tell can you educate a wolf? You might be able to teach him something but when he get hungry he'll attack. The solution to that problem is not feeding him but annihilate him. The best solution would be to ban this religion. Too much democracy can lead sometimes to disaster (see Athenean Democracy and where it ended up). Your pseudo-dilemma WAR or NOT WAR, will end up in a lost war, not for the muslims, but for your (and my and whoevers) country. What I am saying is that I will do anything it takes to protect my country and the future that my kids lended to me. So stay in your chicken nest, lay some eggs and make love to dirty muslims that in the future will rape and kill your infidel, victimized kids
Posted by: AllahIsDead at October 2, 2006 12:17 PM
ISLAMSFORLOSERS ,
But even if you give them education, here in Europe, since they are born, something happens in those brains and they will defend Islam till their last drop of blood. Including the so-called moderates.
Look at one of the 9/11 hijackers, Muhammad Atta, he studied in Hamburg, Germany, and he was a brilliant student...
So, we can discard the explanation of the lack of education for such hate against the West.
And they do not hate the West only: look at Darfur or East-Timor. It is anything else that is not muslim.
Posted by: EuropeanResistance at October 2, 2006 12:22 PM
There seems to be a lots of policy claims of what to do with Islam from all the entries I have read. I must say that some of them are quite extreme from the extermination program of "let's nuke them" and "let's intern them", to the pro-active "let's drop leaflets" and "let's reform" this bloody burden of a religion that cannot reason with Western rational mind. All are possible solutions I presume. A clash is bound to happen sooner or later, but I do not know what form will it take. One can speculate, because how many options could here be out there? Let us put them in a social context.
The extreme option of extermination or internment will entail waiting for a secular redeemer like messiah (Hitlerian or Stalian type)to cleanse the Western civilization from this religion. This redeemer will have a lots on his hands in order to turn the people concerned to follow the orders. With liberal ideologies and culural relativism deeply rooted in Western democracies I doubt if it would be succesful.
The pro-active reform is a possibility only if reforms sprung from within the religious institutions and not outside. Islam as a religious ideology does not let itself be guided by outside influences. The problem is how and who is going to start these reforms. The same analogy of a redeemer will apply here. One person or a Junta like group will advance the idea that the Koran needs to be reinterpreted, an exogenesis of sort. If Joseph Smith had a vision in a dream that he was a prophet to interpret God's commands from a hidden tablets in Upstate New York into a single book, I do not see how this cannot happen in Islam, particularly in muslim communities of France or England (it is better because it will have a bitter chance to thrive). All what one really needs is a dream (Mohamed had many dreams, which turned into Koranic surras) and a numbers of good followers, and the rest will be history. This option will be hard fought though, because nobody will believe in new prophet. Jesus is beleived to return on earth at the end of times. There are still some unanswered questions among Christians about how will people recognized him. Will he be born among us as human and turn out be the Jesus we all know, or will he descend from the sky with his biblical robe and rod. I do not know.
The third option is mass population transfer (expulsion) to Arabia and Muslims lands of all Muslims living in Western democracies who do not want to adhere to the percepts of western democratic values. This option will work only if all western democracies will follow this edict. I mean it is like Kyoto protocols. There is no need in trying to decrease C02 levels responsible for global warming is only two countries sign it. Not only a country will have to sign it but also follow the rules of engagement attached to each country contact.
I recall like today when Rene Lefevre, a famous French philosopher in 1980's when the islamic upheavals started to brew in France, said : "We want a French Islam". He meant a reformed islam run by French (assimilated muslims) people not by Saudia Arabia. An islam that conforms and adapt to the changing environment of the land but also of its own people. He would now swallow his words like a poison pill, because such a french islam is an illusion.
This leaves us with a lots of think about how to deal with Islam. We had lived with it in the past with no problem. Why is it now so imperative that Western countries need to think about how to counter this new threat? because history repeat itself with different context, actors and ideologies.
Posted by: sammish at October 2, 2006 12:26 PM
AllahIsDead ,
I am Portuguese and If I may tell some History, we were occupied by the moors (arabs) from the 9th till the 12th century. With the help of other kings all over Europe and the crusaders, we, portuguese and spanish, were able to expel these people.
But we do not remember this anymore, and they do. And their objective is to create again the Caliphe of Granada as in the 14th century in south of spain.
Scary times are coming back in Europe, I can tell you that.
And I wish people would talk less and do more.
at October 2, 2006 12:30 PM
Look at one of the 9/11 hijackers, Muhammad Atta, he studied in Hamburg, Germany, and he was a brilliant student...
So, we can discard the explanation of the lack of education for such hate against the West
Posted by: EuropeanResistance at October 2, 2006 12:22 PM
True. Sometimes I wonder if these maniacs have some sort of mental predisposition towards mindless violence. If so, a cure needs to be found and fast.
at October 2, 2006 12:40 PM
the use of any and every weapon of war (nukes, sieges, propaganda, comedy, deportations, whatever) should be considered. I personally think that if we had spines that deportation (of all Muslims)...
~ Posted above
Here’s is a few stupid questions.
1. How do you propose we re-write the 1st amendment to our Constitution to exclude Islam while still protecting other religions?
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
2. How do you legally or morally justify the murder or deportation however impractical it may be, of one group of people because of the actions of a different group of people on the other side of the world?
3. What country do you propose we deport American (Muslims) to?
Posted by: Bar at October 2, 2006 12:42 PM
Hugh wrote: . . . "to have a non-Muslim write or say that Muhammad was "a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist"
is simply -- not allowed. It can be known, and it can be reveled in, by a billion Muslims. But not a single non-Muslim is permitted to notice this."
A Love Song to the Prophet Muhammad and the Ahl al-Bayt
Like anyone would be
I am flattered by your fascination with me
Like any hot blooded infidel
I have simply wanted an object to crave
But you, you're not allowed
You're uninvited
A necessary slight
Must be strangely exciting
To watch the stoic squirm
Must be somewhat heartening
To watch shepherd meet shepherd
But you, you're not allowed
You're uninvited
A necessary slight
Like any unconquered Territory
I must seem greatly intriguing
You speak of my love like
You have experienced love like mine before
But this is not allowed
You're uninvited
A necessary slight
at October 2, 2006 12:43 PM
Islam is so rotten that when Muslims hear about it from someone else's lips they fly off the handle into a livid rage from hell. These people are apparently in total disbelief about their own religion when they hear Muhammed's message played back to them by someone else.
So, while it is incomprehensible even to Muslims that anything could be so evil, Muslims broadcast their own disconnect from reality to the world. Observe how Muslims cannot believe anything (especially Islam) could be so evil. But it is.
Islam is THAT evil.
Posted by: pythagoras at October 2, 2006 12:55 PM
At this point we need to deport all those who are devout in the sense of following jihad. We need to close down any mosque that is teaching hate. We need to educate those people who have not lost their humanity that Islam is not the way.
I am pretty sure that the longer we leave it the more people will die, but I am also sure that because even the proposition I have put forward above would result in violence. The first thing that would happan is the use of the oil weapon to destroy the Western economies, which is why the finding of alternatives is so key to this. Once we have no dependency on oil then we can tell them where to go.
As far as I am concerned they are in a race to use their oil wealth before it runs out and to put themselves in an unassilable position, by buying up companies and individuals at the top. And they would have succeeded without certain people jumping the gun, who wanted to speed it up through violence. The love of Jihad is also their biggest weakness.
No one can tell me that the spreading of minority Muslim communities in almost every nation on Earth is not a long term plan to take over gradually.
It can be beaten, but it requires us to treat Islam as a cult rather than a great religion.
War should be used to defend ourselves and our interests. I for one think that at some point nuclear weapons will be used, but I am damn sure of one thing, it will be used by the Islamics first.
We should expect war with Islam as being inevitable, especially if many nations join as a Caliphate. For me once a Caliphate is declared in any sense then a war of self-preservation will have to be declared by the West.
As for reasoning with Muslims, the Pope tried, but the Islamics knew that what the pope was saying was a threat they tried to make it look like he insulted the religion, but he explained the key difference between Christianity and Islam.
I see pressure for the moderate Muslims to stand up, check out Michelle Malkin's Hot Air site and the speach by Brigitte Gabriel, so Karma and others you need to hurry, as our patience is wearing out and when it does and it is getting closer you will get the war that a large percentage of your fellow cultists desire and deserve.
Posted by: Daffersd at October 2, 2006 12:57 PM
Churchill 1939-->
Change your name to Chamberlain: Peace in Our Time.
Posted by: lonewolf at October 2, 2006 1:04 PM
This will eventually lead to the death of the Western Civilization if WE decide to do nothing. We must not JUST resist, we must ATTACK while we have the upper hand in this situation. Listen, my fellow Westerners, TAKE ACTIONS!!!!!!!
Posted by: AllahIsDead at October 2, 2006 09:13 AM
.... action at ground-root level, starting with boycotting muslim business, goods and services. Followed by removing dhimmi politicians (yes, all politically correct traitors, be it republican/democrat/libeterian. Just as a start.....
Posted by: Alert at October 2, 2006 1:06 PM
While Karma and Churchill1939 have their love-fest, JW readers know there could be a knife hidden somwehere in a Koran to slit an infedel throat, in the name you you-know-who. Will cry Churchill1939 a river after the 'holy war'.
Posted by: Alert at October 2, 2006 1:14 PM
Choc full of shit!
Posted by: lonewolf at October 2, 2006 1:32 PM
EuropeanResistance
I am Greek. We still have occupied lands in Cyprus (actually historicaly all of Anatolia aka Asia Minor was Greek mostly until the last genocide of 1922) and we have felt the muslim-mongoloid attrocities even recently, when muslim forces occupied a small island (in 1996) and shot down a Greek helicopter. Though, our goverment did nothing, even if the army had deployd Navy Seals to regain control of the island, in order to not break peace. But what peace is that when we lost some fine young people and 10 years after they (the mujahadins) demand 50% of the island of the Aegean Sea (that are actually inhabited). So, fuck that kind of peace, "The Peace of Retreating(TM)".
Moreover, we have accepted almost 2 million illegal migrants, mostly muslims. There have been reports that if a muslim cannot find a job, he receives from 600 to 2000€ from the Emirates. And I was wondering how and why the hell they ware nice clothes and they don't seem to work anywhere since they are lurking all day long in the streets without doing anything (except if they are in drug dealing at nights)...
There is an article that very soon mongols from turkey will invade in northern iraq to slay the Kurds. At almost the same time they'll try to finish off Greece and Cyprus (since they already know that they will not join the EU, and even with that, they don't have a problem to force what they want to do).
Just see
http://noiri.blogspot.com/2006/08/special-analysis-defense-foreign.html
I believe that the US deplomacy has delayed this plan, but nothing is going to be canceled. The article is from a trusted magazine that is not for the public but for goverment officials.
Probably none of you knew that illegal migrants from albania (a muslim country by 70%, because the rest of them is a Greek minority) have been plotting to create chaos on the 2004 Olympics, but their leader was caught and placed in jail in Austria. I remember I was a soldier at that time and one day we had a wierd alert, and it wasn't an excersice as they told us. They have burried arm depots in the past 16 years of illegal migration from albania. It is estimated that they have 300,000 AK-47 (or variants) rifles withing Greece and they will use it. They'll use it with the help of their muslim turkish brothers. They'll attack at the same time. Trojan Horse from the inside, and full army from the outside.
Actually we educate their illegal migrant muslim kids here, as suggested from Churchill, but they seam to have much greater (than their parents) hate against us. They don't wont to loose their civilization which is of the islamist-will-kill-all-the-infidels type. And remember. He have excluded almost all of the references of the attrocities caused by the muslims, in order not to offend them!!! Moreover they have placed from this year and on, the turkish language as optional in the Greek schools (actually it starts initially from the schools of Northern Greece since this is the first part that the Turks might get, so they don't want the Ottomans have problems in understanding the infidel subjugates). Doesn't all that ring a bell????? Fuckin, yeah!!! I became deaf from that fucking bell!!! So Churchill wait in your nest and wait for them to reach your countrys borders. I WILL NOT. THEY ARE ALREADY HERE
PS
I am glad they are here people like EuropeanResistance,MaxInfidel and others that seam to have what it is called "balls", because, first of all, you need a pair of them to declare your opinion that might cause anger to some people like muslim lovers (most times far-right,see Nazis in Germany praising Iran for his actions, or far-left people, see Communists, fanatic anti-Western, anti-American,anti-Jewish and muslo-loving people )
PS 2 (no, I don't mean Playstation 2)
Churchill might be a muslim gay that wants education like the ones that hijacked the airplanes...Probably, he might even accuse the twin towers for being in the way of the airplanes
at October 2, 2006 1:34 PM
choc: 9-11 in no way served American interests. Here's why: America's economy is a market-based economy. The bigger the market, the bigger the corporate profits. Loss of population equals loss of profits. America is nothing if not motivated by economics nowadays.
Therefore the US government would have nothing to gain to even contemplate doing such a thing as staging terrorist attacks against its own people. It is far too committed to pursuing its own economic agenda for anything like that. Note America's population is now at 300 million. The US government is if anything annoyingly committed to enlarging the country's population (and NOT making it smaller by staging horrifying terror attacks).
The US government can't even imagine ways to cut overspending let alone imagine ways to kill people toiling away in skyscrapers. Your conspiracy theory is giving our bureaucrats WAY too much credit!
This should be fairly obvious.
Posted by: pythagoras at October 2, 2006 1:48 PM
memo to churchill1939: If masked men invaded your home armed with AK-47s and cut your home's telephone lines, would you worry that shooting them would render you as evil as they are??? If you said yes, I can only wonder how much you value your own life.
With regards to the global jihad, it is the attackers who should pay for their trangressions and not the victims.
Since the Islamolsphere declared holy war on the western democracies ALL military actions taken against them can be construed as retalliatory. Remember favoritism to Muslims will get you nothing from Islam--they will still kill you if you are an infidel 'dog.'
Islam has slaughtered hundreds of millions of people and has eliminated at least nine civilizations (I'll list a few, the Egyptian, the Byzantine, the Syrian, the Assyrian, the Buddhist civilization of central Asia) and it isn't finished yet. By taking the mantle of attackers, Muslims have abandoned any claims to the moral high ground.
If you fail to defend democracy this time out, you may never get another chance.
Posted by: pythagoras at October 2, 2006 1:57 PM
Churchill1939 said
Nuking them is not the answer. If we did that (except in retaliation), then the west would be as evil as them.
That doesn't sound like Churchill, in 1939 or any other time. Have you thought of changing your moniker to Carter1979?
I hope that nuclear weapons are not used by either side, and I hope that Islam will reform itself making further violence unneccessary.
I also hope that I win the lottery, that I will be healthy and live to be over 100, and that scientists will perfect cold fusion in the next 2 months. Hoping is good. But in the meantime, we will do anything that is necessary to defend ourselves. Anything.
I'm no liberal but we have to Unconvert them
I am a liberal, and we have to do no such thing. We've done more than our fair share of "saving" the poor Muslims, at great cost to ourselves. I have zero sympathy, zero compassion for them, but I respect their right to choose their own destiny. Let them live in whatever 7th Century h*llhole they create for themselves, just don't come bugging us with complaints of how bad it is. And don't try to bring their ideology or followers here. We live by our rules and our culture, they live by their rules and their culture, everybody happy happy.
Posted by: special_guest at October 2, 2006 2:19 PM
I have zero sympathy, zero compassion for them, but I respect their right to choose their own destiny. Let them live in whatever 7th Century h*llhole they create for themselves, just don't come bugging us with complaints of how bad it is. And don't try to bring their ideology or followers here. We live by our rules and our culture, they live by their rules and their culture, everybody happy happy.
Posted by: special_guest at October 2, 2006 02:19 PM
AMEN.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 2, 2006 2:29 PM
How do you legally or morally justify the murder or deportation however impractical it may be, of one group of people because of the actions of a different group of people on the other side of the world?
Bar,
How do Muslims answer this question? They do it and preach it all the time.
My answer for separation is two parts:
1. Stop all private Muslim entry into Western countries, for any reason, even if it's just to go to a flight school or even a medical school. The only Muslims allowed entry will be connected to an embassy or consulate. Then we'll have a return address if the country is attacked again. That puts the onus on that government to check the people it sends over. As their sponsor, the government and, by extension, its people, will be held responsible.
2. Muslims who leave the country and just happen to find themselves in a country where there are known terrorist training camps, such as Afghanistan (and now Iraq) will not be allowed back in, whether or not they're citizens and regardless of visa status. Tell them that before they leave and they'll have no excuse.
In addition, no path to citizenship for alien Muslims here already, unless and until Osama bin Laden and anyone else we name is turned over to US forces, dead or alive.
Posted by: PMK at October 2, 2006 2:33 PM
but to have a non-Muslim write or say that Muhammad was "a merciless war chief, plunderer, slaughterer of Jews and a polygamist" is simply -- not allowed. It can be known, and it can be reveled in, by a billion Muslims. But not a single non-Muslim is permitted to notice this.
well as non muslim i will say it muhammad was a crook and a egotistical jackass by westen and any civlized standards but muslims concider him to be the perfect man funny how most cults think there leader is aproift and the perfect man and react violenly is anyone says this
at October 2, 2006 2:38 PM
This leaves us with a lots of think about how to deal with Islam. We had lived with it in the past with no problem. Why is it now so imperative that Western countries need to think about how to counter this new threat? because history repeat itself with different context, actors and ideologies.
Sammish,
Where are you coming from with this question?
We've lived with it in the past, so why is it now so imperative now? Are you asking us: what's the big deal?
If the answer is yes:
1. Global travel (In the past it didn't exist to the extent it does now. We didn't have jets or automobiles for most of human history. Even after airplanes became the primary means of travel across the ocean the Cold War was another limit on the free movement of people.)
2. Global communications - people with the right equipment can communicate from a mountaintop in Pakistan with someone in New York City.
3. Global finance - money moves all over the globe every day.
4. 9/11 - Do you want more of the same?
5. Nuclear weapons - the Islam "we've lived with for so long" seeks to add this weapon to its arsenal, and there has been no indication that they would have any qualms about using it on a major Western city. Do you have your bomb shelter ready?
It's a misstatement to say "we lived with it with no problem". We didn't live with it. We had to fight it and contain it in order to retain our own heritage and religion. Now, globalization and immigration are forcing us to face head on the threat to our own cultures that has existed for 1400 years. It's no longer limited to pockets of Eurasia. We can no longer pretend it doesn't exist and that it doesn't threaten us.
Posted by: PMK at October 2, 2006 2:55 PM
MaxInfidel
It sounds like you are suggesting that today Muslims could practice jihad in America and be protected by the 1st amendment?
If such were true, then how did our government convict Moussaoui when he was just practicing his religion?
at October 2, 2006 3:12 PM
PMK
How do Muslims answer this question?
It really depends on which one you ask!
Posted by: Bar at October 2, 2006 3:23 PM
"“If we go back in the time tunnel 1400 years, we will find that history repeats itself…. Byzantium represents America in the west…. America will collapse, as Byzantium collapsed in the west….The Prophet [Muhammad] could, by means of unbroken ranks, conquer . . . blah, blah, bullsh . .etc. "
America [sic] is no Byzantium. Although it could go that way, if we should let it. But that is another thread. That the Islamics (Islamic clerics, or just plain Moslems) misjudge our resolve and dedication (not to go the way Byzantium did) is in our favor.
Let's keep it that way.
. . . and scare the bejeezus out of them fellas any time you can. It works. They have fears jest like anybody else. They made of flesh and blood, and they bleed when cut (or shot). Why not give it a try real soon? (All within the law of course, self-defense and all that good stuff).
Posted by: unicorns62000 at October 2, 2006 4:08 PM
Unless Islam encounters a major reformation real soon, I hope that in the future centuries Islam will become as dead and ancient as Greek mythology. Never in my life have I ever felt that a religion would be in need of being banned, but the threat against democracy, freedom... life itself. The dis-respect for human beings shown by the radical Muslims in the Middle East are frightening. At one time, and I still do, grieve for innocent civilians caught in war, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, but I can not stand by and watch a religion threaten the entire world. Islam can only be saved by Muslims. It is their choice. The war of the 21st century will be Freedom vs. Sharia. What a shame... G-d have mercy.
Posted by: Monkeywho at October 2, 2006 4:38 PM
Choc
you are so brainwashed, just like all muslims.The "palestinians"came into being in the last 30 odd years. There are no palestinian people, no language, no culture, no nothing. It was an attempt by arafat,a succesful one at that, to invent a reason to fight Israel - as if muslims really need a reason!
They are mainly jordanians, generic arabs.
I will concede they haven't had it easy, but that is because of their corrupt leaders - not Israeli's. There are many arab Israeli's who are very happy living there in a democracy.
FYI - here is one of Hugh's early posts.
Your take on 9/11 is insulting and ridiculous.
First, though some Jews left the Middle East for Europe after the Muslim conquest in the late 7th century (and others had arrived still earlier, as in Rome), many others had remained in the Middle East. There were Jewish settlements in Arabia (or have you forgotten what the Qur'an and Hadith tell us), in Mesopotamia and Persia at least a thousand years before the Arabs, or Islam, arrived, in Syria, in North Africa, and of course Judea. They didn't disappear. In the center of their religious and historical existence, they continued to live, continuously, in Jerusalem, in Hebron, in Safed, three of the four cities considered holy in Judaism. The first printing press in Asia was a Hebrew press established in Safed.
What happened during the period of Muslim conquest? Did Judea thrive? Or did it slowly empty out of people? What do we know of it? Well, we know that Western travellers began to visit the area, and report, in numbers, in the mid-19th century. What did they report? Bustling communities, thriving agriculture? No. They reported to a man about the sheer emptiness, the "ruin and desolation" -- see Melville, see Mark Twain, see Lamartine, see even,in the late 18th century, the report of Volney (a report that the late Edward Said carefully omitted from his ludicrous and meretricious "The Question of Palestine" though he was perfectly aware of Volney's existence because he did quote him in other books).
And what exactly did the Zionists do? They did not seize a single dunam of land. They bought land, and continued to buy land, often from Arab absentee landlords -- or not Arabs, for there were and are all kinds of non-Arab communities in historic Palestine. And in buying land that had been untended, they began one of the most impressive feats of land reclamation in history -- see the agronomist Walter Clay Lowdermilk's report in "Palestine: Land of Promise."
What else? Well, their efforts led to a kind of economic boom, similar to that which occurred in the Gulf states from oil. And just as Arabs from everywhere flocked in the 1970s and in the decades since, to Kuwait and the Emirates and Saudi Arabia, Arabs -- especially from Egypt and Iraq -- flocked to that area under Ottoman rule before World War I, and then after World War I assigned to the Mandate for Palestine. And even in the 19th century, there were arrivals -- to this emptied out land, from among the veterans of Mehmet Ali's forces, from those of Abd el-Kader in Algeria (there was even a village consisting entirely of Berbers in one of the vilayets composing "Palestine"), and later, as the tide of Ottoman (Muslim) rule receded in southeastern Europe, the Ottoan government transferred whole populations of Muslims to the area of what would become Mandatory Palestine.
Nothing will do except detailed knowledge of the demographic situation, not only in Mandatory Palestine, but in the century before, and also the situation of the Jews who continued to live under Muslim Arab rule all over the Middle East and North Africa.
The winners of World War I thought, rightly, that at the breakup of the Ottoman Empire it was entirely reasonable that some of the constiuent peoples of that Empire should have their own states. An Arab state, a Jewish state, a Kurdish state, and an Armenian state were all envisioned. We all know what happened. The Arabs ended up with 22 states in the end. The Armenian state turned out to be a Soviet puppet republic, until quite recently. The Jewish state was built without the help, and often the hindrance, of the British officials, civilian and military, who for the most part did not fulfill their commitments, made when the Mandate for Palestine was entrusted to Great Britain. For a start, all of Eastern Palestine was loppped off, unilaterally, in 1921 at the Cairo Conference. Almost immediately British officials found themselves indifferent to, and later more and more hostile to, the chief stated aims of the Mandate that they were supposedly promoting: to "facilitate Jewish immmigration" into Palestine and to "encourage close Jewish settlement on the land." In fact, whenever a local British official tried to help the Jews, he was moved out of Mandatory Palestine. That is what happened to Colonel Meinertzhagen in the 1920s,, and to Captain Orde Wingate in the 1930s. And then, at the moment of maximum peril, in 1939, Colonial Secretary Malcolm Macdonald proposed to limit Jewish immigartion to 15,000 a year for five years, and that would be it. During World War II the ports of Rumania remained open. Perhaps as many as one million Jews fleeing the Nazis might, had the British allowed and aided it, made it to Mandatory Palestine. They never did.
You have left out so much of the real, and detailed, history of that area, and offered a travesty of Jews simply reappearing, in your imaginative account having disappeared round about 70 A.D. You may think you are exempt from the requirement to actually know all of the relevant facts.
You are not.
Posted by: Hugh at July 17, 2006 08:02 PM
at October 2, 2006 5:08 PM
comming this fall to CBS The Philospher and the Fatwa, you'll laugh you'll cry heck you'll even die. Bet it only airs one season.
Posted by: AMartinez at October 2, 2006 5:15 PM
Control of Jerusalem is so important for the fundamentalist Christians because they need to control it for the end-time and the second coming of Christ to fulfil the prophecies of the Bible or some crap like that.
All religions are warped
Posted by: choc at October 2, 2006 5:19 PM
Choc
Here is some more info for you - perhaps you can share it with your family and friends!
Go call Israel and the US terrorist states. It makes jihadi's look like the hideous miscreants they are.
(my apologies to all for the formatting).
ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;
2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;
3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;
5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE
CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;
6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948 WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM
EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;
13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;
14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL.
ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;
15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;
16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE
AGAINST ISRAEL;
17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY
DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
Posted by: Gramfan
at October 2, 2006 5:25 PM
>>>>Control of Jerusalem is so important for the fundamentalist Christians because they need to control it for the end-time and the second coming of Christ to fulfil the prophecies of the Bible or some crap like that.
All religions are warped
Posted by: choc
And muslims want it because????
Posted by: Gramfan at October 2, 2006 5:41 PM
Eventually as relating to Mohammedans: It will be time to nuke or be nuked. Radical Mohammedans that are beginning to win the hearts and minds of Middle Eastern, European and American Mohammedans are plugged into the violence of their religion.
Only a catastrophic intentional attack resulting in a huge Western victory will force a change of heart of the current Mohammedan culture.
Tours, Vienna and Spain are all examples of using a harsh response that forced Mohammedans to back up.
That time will come again.
Posted by: Theway2k at October 2, 2006 6:14 PM
PMK,
I did not mean "what is the big deal" with my last statement, nor was I sarcastic about dealing with Jihadist Islam. All I was saying is that it is very important that we have to deal with Islam, but we need a lots of thinking. The problem is I am not sure how democratic societies can effectively counter it through a consensus of actions. This is the weakness in our democratic institutions that these Jihadists are taking advantage of.
What's the main theme of the entry I wrote. We all can describe or opt for possible options to face up with the threat from the "Nuking" to "Reform" to "deportation", but have we really start to think whether other citizens of Western countries would agree with these options. Perhaps our societies are not yet ready. I do not doubt that in the future something needs to happen in order to deal with Jihadists once and for all.
Posted by: sammish
at October 2, 2006 7:34 PM
Sammish,
Thanks for clarifying. I didn't mean to imply you were being sarcastic. Your post left me with the impression that you thought since we had survived this long, surely there would be no reason to think we won't continue to survive.
I don't hold that opinion because the ante has been upped by Islamists. Peaceful coexistence (which we never had - only force of arms enabled us to survive this long) is not what they seek. Surely the latest fatwa to kill the Pope merely for something he said should ring alarm bells around the world.
What if Catholics saw the assassination of the Pope as a reason to randomly kill Muslims? That way lies anarchy.
Even democratic societies, when faced with possible elimination, need to take the gloves off.
America's leaders did it in the Civil War and again in World War II. Our problem today is that we are trying to fight a politically correct war and such a war can never be won because the other side doesn't play by the same rules.
at October 2, 2006 7:52 PM
Churchill1939 your namesake is most likely rolling over in his grave, no one on this site said to nuke over a billion people. non muslims have been more than patient and there comes a time when it will be either you save yourself or you desroy the islamaic facists who want to saw off your head.
keep on dropping leaflets, you can start in Dearborn right now.
l used to think that humanity in muslims will surface, but history shows us that as soon as their population approaches a certain amount, they start to demand sharia law, and will not stop till your bend over holding onto your ankles. This war is costly, and there are many ways to win it, l undertand that feedom is a human condition, and that our God has given us choices, unlike the muslim allah. We need to educate the world of non-muslims of the evil nature of islam, and act within our laws. WE should not allow ourselves to be cowed, and use our freedom of speech and other hard won freedoms to show the way to islam is death. the more we openly challenge the koran the more muslim will act out, to the effect we will have islam declared a terrorist orgianization. now how long can this take, l dont know. but the other way, via military, will only be used by the West when all else fails, and yes deaths will happen, but l would rather be dead than live under sharia law or have my family's descendents under the muslim yoke. so Churchill1939 live up to your namesake and bomb the crap out them if they resist, and no more leaflet talk!
at October 2, 2006 8:37 PM
PMK,
I totally agree with you that the "problem today is that we are trying to fight a politically correct war". This problem is inherent in our democratic institutions and the lessons we learned from our recent past with regards to wars and political upheavals. Our political institutions are very young and fragile. The good thing about them is that they developed to accomodate all political persuasions and religious tolerance. However, these Jihadists are trying to undermine these same institutions that have served us well and helped some of their co-compatriates to benefit economically and personally. I am sure they want to drag us at their level of political backwardness.
I think they should try to create their own Utopia in their own countries and let us see what they can come up with. The answer is for all of us to see in Saudia Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan and Iran (Sharia based countries), if I was a Muslim there is nothing to be pround of.
Posted by: sammish at October 2, 2006 8:44 PM
MaxInfidel
“How about we change the 1st amendment to require that the religion in question doesn’t infringe on the rights of others...”
I can only presume from that statement that you felt the Constitution did not offer us these protections.
“many Islamic activities could be considered criminal, so how can it be so difficult to outlaw Islamic teachings, practice,...”
The KKK or Neo-Nazi’s are not outlawed in America, it is considered free speech to say, read and listen to what ever stuff you so choose. Because of this Constitution, we do not put people in jail until they actually commit a crime, we do not jail people based on what they read or who they associate with. Its unconstitutional, unjust, amoral, un-American, to punish people for crimes they themselfs did not commit.
at October 2, 2006 9:06 PM
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
at October 2, 2006 9:15 PM
Croc -
If ALL religions have it wrong, then why do your care about what happens to Israel? Why do you want it "wiped off of the map?"
Careful what you wish for!
Posted by: champ at October 3, 2006 12:55 AM
Very amusing to see the famous and by now shopworn Franklin quote, the one always used to bash those who want sensible security measures to be taken, now being used for quite a different purpose: against those eager to show deference to, to appease, Islam. As Dean Esmay, with love and squalor, in the article Robert Spencer dismembers above.
Posted by: Hugh at October 3, 2006 12:59 AM
Gramfan -
You make an EXCELLENT point! Thanks for the facts pertaining to Jerusalem, King David and the Bible, vs. the Koran and Mohammad.
And the Muslims only want Jerusalem because the JEWS cherish it, not because it holds any significance to their religion.
Posted by: champ at October 3, 2006 1:01 AM
Churchill1939:
You are hopelessly naive. And so are the others who talk of reforming islam.
Any horserace handicapper will tell you that such an outcome is THE long shot. Yes, there's a big pay-off, but the odds are astronomical.
Better to prepare for the likely outcome: more attacks from muslim terrorists, including the possibility of a nuclear attack, aided by (1) the active assistance of other muslims, both knowing and unknowing, (2) the passive assistance of a much larger muslim community, (3) the active support of the nihilistic left, and (4) the inadvertant assistance provided by uncoordinated, inept, unintelligent, and politically correct government resistence. Hurricane Katrina was VERY instructive.
So, we have to take the situation in hand ourselves, as individuals. Our ancestors did this. Our ancestors crossed the continent on horseback, or walking alongside their ox-drawn wagons. They crossed rivers and mountains, on foot. They settled on the prairies and in the woodlands of America, built sod houses, or log houses, dug their wells by hand, fought off the indians with axes and firearms, or died trying. Tended their sick with herbs and prayer. Gave birth without a doctor. Pulled their own teeth. Set their own broken bones. Those men and women were tough!! And we are their offspring. We owe it to ourselves, and to them, to be competent in our own defense.
So, I know how to field-strip a .45 Automatic while blindfolded. Why? I might have to clean it or unjam it in the dark, with a jihadi muslim outside my door. I have a .45 pistol and an assault rifle for each family member, and other weapons which I can abandon, if necessary, or sell, without regret.
Everyone in our family is learning or will learn the difference between a revolver and a pistol, single action versus double action, shotgun, rifle, semi-automatic, automatic. Everyone knows how to shoot at least one weapon, and how to make it safe. Eventually, they will learn how to disarm an attacker and clear his weapon for use against him. This is advanced training, and most members are not ready for this yet.
I have stocked foodstuffs for so long, that after 9/11 we broke out the coffee stored in 1979. I don't think that brand exists any more, but even after 22 years that coffee was as fresh as anything I could buy. We used fifteen or twenty pounds, and replaced it. I now have over twenty years experience in storing food, and we're improving all the time. Everyone in our family knows how to make bread from scratch, and cook outdoors.
I believe all the men should know how to use a bow and arrow, and how to follow the blood trail to finish off a kill.
My wife and I have earned our amateur radio technician licenses, and know how to communicate. I have had three military radios for over fifteen years, all set to the same frequency. I will be selling these or trading them for an even better system. These are Vietnam era, and are heavy with expensive battery packs. I want something lighter and cheaper, although these are hard to beat for their rugged mil-spec construction.
We have radiation detection equipment, calibrated at Texas A&M, in the extreme ranges necessary to accurately measure radioactive fallout, and a dosimeter for each person. I have begun a series of readings with my family on the topics of islam, jihad, nuclear blast and fallout, preparation planning, etc. These are occassional, so as not to choke anybody with the information. (The teenager's history teacher says he is the best informed student in the class when it comes to current events, LOL.)
We write letters, make phone calls, and send emails, to congress, to the White House, and others, on a regular basis, concerning islam, terrorism, dhimmitude, immigration, etc. We sign petitions, and make phone calls of support, even to politicians in other states and districts. We ALWAYS thank every person we see in uniform for serving our country. We educate, a little at a time, everyone who might be receptive. The bank teller, the clerk, the teacher (most teachers are hopeless cases), the receptionist, the businessman. We DO NOT TRADE with anyone sympathetic to islam, muslims, palestinians, illegal aliens, etc., if we can avoid doing so.
We have ariel photographs of our secondary retreat, in case shelter in place is not possible, and have marked out fields of fire to assess vulnerability. We don't want to have to run, but ya' never know.
We also keep a close eye out for potential allies. Some know they have been selected, but others do not, yet. Most people get referred to Jihadwatch. And we follow-up on the referral for a reaction.
That's what Texan is doing. All of this may be unnecessary. I hope so. I'm getting too old and, unfortunately, too weak for much in the way of hardship. If I end up shooting up the ammo at the pistol range, just to make noise and waste a Saturday, that's fine with me. I can use the Geiger counter for a doorstop. And I can always eat the stored food, or give it away to the needy poor. That would be just fine, too.
But I don't want to be trying to stock up, buy a pistol, cash a check, and fill the gas tank in the middle of a fleeing mob after some Mohammad sets off a nuclear truck bomb downtown. I don't want to be part of the panic when the fallout starts coming down like snow, with gamma rays burning everyone's innards. And I know the Big One is what the muslims have in mind. After all, they have said so. On that, I do trust what they say.
And the war goes on.
at October 3, 2006 1:50 AM
"Will Islam ever reform or are we facing a never ending conflict that will escalate until no one is left to remember the West or Islam?"
Here's one mans imagined line of events:
http://www.historyofjihad.org/waronterror.html
Posted by: redwine at October 3, 2006 4:17 AM
Whew. Texan. That's how the West was won!
This yank is going to go buy herself a handgun and learn how to shoot.
I don't trust the government to protect American's security anymore.
And Naseem, if you're reading this, just remember, if it comes down to me and you, YOU'RE GOING DOWN, BITCH.
Posted by: atheling at October 3, 2006 4:24 AM
TO ALL THE ABOVE
I'm sooo glad i caused a debate by (PRETENDNG) to be a bleeding heart liberal.
For those of you that dont know, Churchill himself used that tactic a few times. It helped solidify the resolve of his allies and fired them up. It also helped identify the bleeding heart liberals with no stomach to fight.
Posted by: Churchill1939 at October 3, 2006 4:27 AM
To ALLAHISDEAD,
Thank you for your note. About Cyprus , I already had an idea and I am still surprise that no EU country has raised the voice againt Turkey. Although the EU wants Turkey and Greece to solve this question, we have no idea on which terms. The turkish army should just come out of Cyprus. Point. Also, Turkey should apologize Armenia for the genocide they have commited in the 18th century.
More. EU should not even engage talks with Turkey for joining our union. Point.
I was never a soldier as I am a girl, so I cannot see things on the ground as you do but I just look at the facts and the facts tell me that our societies are getting into this perverse submission with Islam, which is totally unacceptable for me, for my family that fighted WWII or my parents that fighted against the portuguese dictatorship in the 70's.
Their ideas are fascist as our family could have experienced in the past. Easy to make correspondences: one cannot say what he thinks without a death threat, extremely conservatice society (pater-familia-religion),each one is monitored through religion, women are just good to make babies (better to be a dog).
To counterbalance all these stupid left , humanitarian, compassionated self-censorship (I can tell you that I am a human person but when it comes to attack my culture, I am not stupid to let be beaten), we should go in the streets and claim for freedom in front the Berlim theater for exemple. Our voice has to be heard. This is D
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