Pardon me for repeating myself, but:

6th Pillar of Islam
n

1. The pervasive threat of personal ruination, injury, or murder for criticizing Islam. 2. The most effective enforcer of self-censorship in world history.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at October 13, 2006 7:51 PM

I think what they are proposing is outrageous, and will not be good for us anti-Jihadists. What they should do is outlaw threats to, and violence against, Muslim apostates, intended Muslim apostates, or perceived Muslim apostates. They also need to prohibit teachings of death to apostates.

Posted by: ofcourse at October 13, 2006 7:54 PM

I am just amazed at how much freedom of speach Islam and Muslim's seem to be given. Death threats, intimidation, bullying. The founders of free speach today, would not be able to get a word in edgewise and would be called rascists, and charged with a hate crime. Islam is the only religion that is able to operate freely today. Any other comments or religious talk, is frowned upon. The west is now oppressed, by it's own plight to let everyone have a say. Yet we can not.

Posted by: zooboomafoo at October 13, 2006 8:02 PM

Her husband was questioned by some congregation members at a local mosque recently and ordered to, “control his wife.”

I wonder how many such members there were at that local mosque. We are so often told that the majority of Muslims are “moderates”. But here we clearly see some “extremist” viewpoints, on the proper place of women in society, being quite openly expressed in this community.

Posted by: Steve Cheng at October 13, 2006 8:06 PM

Don't be fooled by the Muslim Canadian Congress. They are not a nice cuddly bunch of moslems with whom we could do business - although they are, perhaps, prepared to be more moderate than many of their co-religionists, but only at the moment and only until they have achieved their aim of making islam dominant.

If you don't believe me just go their site at

http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/index.html

where, if you keep reading, you will begin to understand that they are simply using a different tack in order to suppress all criticism of islam. It's subtle, oh so very subtle, yet highly effective as so many Canadians are allowing them to slowly move in and take over.

Don't be fooled. Remember, these people are still moslems and still believe that they are superior. The Muslim Canadian Congress is simply the same old islamic garbage just dressed up in prettier clothes - made to look more appealing to us westerners. Many will fall for this but I hope none here will.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at October 13, 2006 8:16 PM

Islamic reform? Talk about having your head up your farsi! Take it right from a Muslim, waver from the path of Muhammed, and you get what you believe in. Why ask geese to no longer flock? So now it seems that, moderate Muslim's are victims of Muslim violence, hmmmmmm. Muslims are free to condemn and threaten to kill whomever they damn well please. We are losing our rationale, trying to superimpose another, that offers no compromise my friend, none. Blessed be you for trying, and piece be upon you for the short time that you have to say and speak what you feel.

Posted by: zooboomafoo at October 13, 2006 8:24 PM

Talha777

Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 24

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:33 pm

"Hey Talha777, isn't saying that illegal where you live? I think someone should notify the local autorities. You have to understand something about freedom of speech here in the West: Blaspheny is allowed in every form, but incitement to murder is strictly illegal and a serious crime"

I am quite willing to go to jail for the sake of my religion and what is True, insha Allah Ta'ala. This would be an excellent honour for me to be persecuted for the sake of my beliefs, may Allah Ta'ala give me such a blessed opportunity. Ameen. Summa Ameen!

Quote:
"Talha777 I sincerely hope the CSIS monitors these pages and will have you under surveillance for treason. I alos hope you don't stay in Ontario. Don't want scum like you close to me. But I know the likes of you have created your cess pools in the GTA and Montreal areas.
Did one of your friends get busted in the terrot plot? Most of them were from Mississauga. I am sure you all knew each other."

I don't mind if CSIS, or the RCMP or the CIA or anyone else is monitoring me, whether it be my phone, my internet, or surveillance of my person. I have nothing to hide and I don't fear any authority except Almighty Allah alone.

2:41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear me, and me alone.

Quote:
"So tell me talha...How would you feel if I came to your country and said "my obedience is only to my own people and country and not yours, and i will follow your rules only as long as they don't go against the rules of my nation, and then said that any man who marries more than one woman in Muslim countries should be crucifed out of respect for the Virgin Mary, or that anyone eating Hallal meat should be burned alive bacause it causes unnessesry pain to the animals? How would you and your governments treat me?"

First of all I have no country. The whole world belongs to Allah, and I am only loyal to Him and if the khilafat should be restored I will also pledge my allegience to the Khalifa or any other Islamic authority (i.e. the King of Saudi Arabia). An Islamic country, I am sure, would never let a person such as yourself settle in it. However, this government, Canada, allowed my parents to settle in it, and I myself was born here, and the government has thus far not found it necessary to kick me out despite my "controversial" beliefs which I have made loud and clear.

Jazakullah khayr
_________________
Verily We have granted thee a manifest Victory
(Al-Fateh 1)

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=597809#597809

The fruits of the Canadian Muslim community.

Posted by: ofcourse at October 13, 2006 8:24 PM

The Islamofacists are winning the battle for moderation. The moderates need to take a lesson from Americans and grow spines. The extremists think that we are weak but they ignore history and fact. We need to hit the streets with our Mo turban bomb shirts on and quote the Queeran madness. Even if they wake up soon, it will be the death of them either way before long. Their silence is driving us to look at the whole of Islam as radical, extremist and intolerant as well as wishing to kill infidels like me. I'm beginning to feel like WWIII is just around the corner.

Posted by: HawkWatcher at October 13, 2006 8:31 PM

And that is why your homeland, not Canada, where you were born, is in ruins. You ain't a fruit, you a fruit cake. You seem to miss a big point, obedience is not in our nature. You can get away with that in your comfy Canada wanna be palestine authority. The only reason you say what you say, is cause we do it better. That is why your parents left. How come you can attack all other religions, yet squeal like a pig when someone attacks yours? So much anger and frustration, are you sure you are from Canada? Everytime I have been, I thought it was rather pleasant. And it is Manifest Destiny you Jackass! Read a book!

Posted by: zooboomafoo at October 13, 2006 8:52 PM

Hawk Watcher,

Welcome to World War III...

The "good" Muslims are afraid getting beheaded if they speak out or fight against the Jihazis, and, for that matter, so is most of Europe!

It looks as if England, Australia, and the United States are the only ones who are actively doing anything. And, when we do go in and clean up the Jihazi mess, all of a sudden the Muslim communities start whining about the Western world invading the Middle East! If they (the "good" Muslims) would have taken care of these Jihazis to begin with, we wouldn't be there right now!!!

--- Doctor Bulldog ---

Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at October 13, 2006 8:55 PM

It looks as if England, Australia, and the United States are the only ones who are actively doing anything.

The British infidels may be in the fight, but Londonistan is another matter.
Are American Muslims joining the fight? CAIR suggests otherwise. This week I saw a PBS special titled: Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet.
It was two hours of American Muslims, scholars and authors telling us how peaceful Islam was and how Osama bin Laden and the terrorists just didn't understand Islam. (Koran had no justification for blowing up buildings, etc.)
They justified or made excuses for the various raids carried out by Muhammad. They didn't appear to see any need for reform. All was sweetness and light, Muhammad was a generous man, etc.
Given the size of the American community, what hope is there if they see nothing wrong and only the infidels and a few outliers (apostates to the Muslims) see a need for change?

Posted by: PMK at October 13, 2006 9:21 PM

I’m open to an explanation as to how a man can profess his faith to a religion but disavow the teachings of its Prophet.

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54 (one little gem of countless others)

Are the ‘Moderates’ willing to propose modified core religious texts that change Mohammed's guidance? If they do, would anyone sell them life insurance?

Posted by: limes at October 13, 2006 9:31 PM

zooboomafoo I hope you weren't referring to me. That's a post from a traitor in the West, from an anti-Islam site. The Nazi has the gull to denounce us, and frankly state his/her treacherous intentions. I SAY KICK HIM/HER OFF A PLANE OVER SAUDI ARABIA.

It shows you straight the danger we are facing.

Posted by: ofcourse at October 13, 2006 9:32 PM

I should add a rotten and sickly fruit…. Of course, it is no fruit at all.

Posted by: ofcourse at October 13, 2006 9:38 PM

As a nationalist conservative & Western patriot I naturally oppose homosexualists and "gay rights," so it would be out-of-character of me to voice support for a so-called "moderate" Muslim who advocates for the homosexualist agenda. However, under the circumstances, I think anything that divides the Muslim community and fosters internal discord in Islam is good for the West.

Posted by: meharistes at October 13, 2006 9:41 PM

Tarek Fatah and his organization fought against the institution of Sharia law in Canada. That was really, really important.

I've seen him on TV and heard him on the radio. He can practice any form of his religion that he likes and I will support him if he believes in the separation of church and state and considers himself first a Canadian and second a Muslim: I'm pretty sure this is the essence of what he said about himself and I believed him when he said it because of what he had accomplished. ("By their fruits you shall know them.")

If that means he chooses only to believe in and practice the good parts of Islam, that's okay: that's the moderation and the reformation we all hope for.

(I personally am not arguing that there are good parts of Islam -- I am not a Muslim -- only that perhaps some Muslims are so devoted to their god that they will choose those good things and so bring their religion into modern times. One can always hope. I personally choose to believe in the Christian god despite many bad experiences to the contrary.)

Posted by: Josephine at October 13, 2006 10:02 PM

One strongly worded hate-mail accused her of being the, "younger sister of Satan."

That was the content of a strongly worded hate mail? Give me a break! I've been called worse, and the subject was football. Did that hate mail have a death threat?

Dominic, I went to MCC's website, they sound like American Democratric Party operatives.

What MCC seems to have failed to do is acknowledge that they are in fact apostates.

Dominic, go here http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013407.php

If you did not make it back to that thread, I posted some things that I think cause people (like me) to believe that the average UK citizen is unarmed.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 13, 2006 10:26 PM

Muslims are taught to follow Islamic leaders and Shaira law. Muslims do not effectively demonstrate individual sovereignty. Instead, they are left with the goals of a child. Their leaders enforce absolute power and subordination over the weak. They only offer limited information and insight, for immediate relevance and particular context. They are known for their homilies, tautologies, and reputations. Muslims consider legitimate and tolerate the madness, mythical history, and bounded rationality. Muslims have faith in religious coercion, and adhere to Islamic texts. They remain risk adverse, leave religious contradictions and anomalies unquestioned, and only fine-tune their skills in debating the same old narrow arguments. They adapt; sameness, simple control over life, predictability, consistency, and take Islamic constructs as a given. Early experience in this way of life establishes the premature assessment of ever-present evil in the living world, and beauty and reward in paradise. They are bias, and practice the division of labor between genders. In the West, Muslim leaders practice straightforward pretence, and are masters at finding problems, and establishing victim hood. They move from agenda to agenda, and leave unresolved, the longer-term problems found in Islam.

Western citizens have individual sovereignty. They have freedom in their private and public lives. They can demonstrate tolerance, friendship, obligation, commitment, and trust toward others. They find cause and effect, source of preference, reason for change, and if their long held beliefs are still applicable. They find illumination and innovation in new ideas, theories, processes, mechanisms, and solutions. They have imagination, creativity, consciousness, drive, choice, and vision. They accept challenges, changes, revisions, alternatives, risks, opportunities, and see past short run hurdles. They take action in the present, and justify their decisions by the known consequences. They can learn new skills, and accept behavior development. They also find that allowing for some confusion, ambiguity, uncertainty, absurdity, illogic, and inconsistency, can lead to new growth and intelligent rationality. They seek justice, and recognize beauty and reward, in the present and living world.

Posted by: SFOD at October 13, 2006 11:02 PM

"If you did not make it back to that thread, I posted some things that I think cause people (like me) to believe that the average UK citizen is unarmed."

Pelayo - I'm confused. This article was about Canadians in Canada. Have I missed something? Or was this between you & Dominic re. another topic?

Posted by: Josephine at October 13, 2006 11:06 PM

Why am I not surprised?

Posted by: Kepha at October 13, 2006 11:12 PM

Josephine, Yes, that was another subject with my reply that I thought important for Dominic to see.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 13, 2006 11:25 PM

Oh, thanks, Pelayo. I just didn't want to miss an important connection. Canada has different gun laws, too.

Posted by: Josephine at October 13, 2006 11:36 PM

It's not a war on terror.

It's human civilization versus islam.

Time to call it for what it is.

Posted by: tuckunderbreak at October 13, 2006 11:58 PM

Pelayo / Dominic - I went there too; I would have said they seem like Hezbollah, and Pelayo says American Democratic Operatives...well I guess there is no big difference.

Posted by: Jimmy Bones at October 14, 2006 12:15 AM

I'm not comfortable with the idea of making it a crime to criticize someone's religious beliefs: it sounds like Sharia to me.

If I went on the radio and argued against being a born-again Christian, I'm sure some would email me and say that I was a back-slider (apostate). They would say that I was following Satan and doing his bidding, even if I didn't realize it. They would also tell me I was going to hell.

That's just a difference in religious belief. If the hate crime laws were changed in the way the article seems to suggest, I would be able to report those people to the police and have them charged with a serious criminal offense. That would be terrible.

Of course, there would not be an implied threat of murder in their criticism, because the New Testament doesn't order Christians to kill apostates.

However, if the threat was not explicit, how would the courts prove one was intended? By how badly the recipient's feelings were hurt? If all someone did was call you an apostate and the devil's sister, you'd need Vincent Bugliosi and The Amazing Kreskin to prove your case.

There are already laws in place against threatening someone with injury or death. They should suffice. I don't want laws against hurting someone's feelings. If we had that, the entire country would be in prison within a week.

Posted by: Josephine at October 14, 2006 12:34 AM

I checked out the MCC web-link.

Dominic, I admire your fight but why make enemies where potential allies are found? The open conflict within that orginization is obvious. Just as obvious, at least to me, is the fact that some of the Muslims there are trying to stop the radicals from taking over. You seem to believe it's all a bunch of baloney and that they all share the same goal of Islamic domination, but certainly the radicals don't think it's a show. The conflict is real, the threats are real, the tension is real, and the fight is real. Irshad Manji, for example, receives many threats, among them a message that she is about to go the way of Theo van Gogh, something to that effect. It is dangerous work they are doing, why pooh-pooh it?

Let's relentlessly pursue and kill off the radicals, not write off the reformers as con artists. You can say I'm 'falling for' for some grand MCC deception, but if so then so are the Islamist SOB's that are warring with them.

"What MCC seems to have failed to do is acknowledge that they are in fact apostates."
-- Pelayo

Good point. Maybe they will in time. Ex-Muslims are some of our most effective allies of all, e.g. Ibn Warraq etc. Help them out!

Posted by: alexon at October 14, 2006 12:59 AM

Here's the general impression I get bouncing around the links in here:

http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict

From that proverbial punch-in-the-nose that finally stopped the schoolyard bully, to the extreme measure of nuking Japan, we Americans have learned that stopping aggression is most successful when you kick ass with all you've got. It will never stop until all aggressors are dealt with...which is impossible. So what's the next best thing?

Deal with the aggressors one at a time on all levels until a comfortable level of security is attained. It's time to get serious on contaning this radical Islamic movement. Activate yourselves people...they want to kill a lot more of us.

Posted by: HawkWatcher at October 14, 2006 1:00 AM

SFOD,

"They [Westerners, as opposed to Muslims] also find that allowing for some confusion, ambiguity, uncertainty, absurdity, illogic, and inconsistency, can lead to new growth and intelligent rationality."

This allowance is the most important characteristic you mention, becuase it is the one most difficult to for societies to accept, and all the more so when the society is tending toward utopianism or extremist perfectionism. The alternative will never be increasing perfection, but only increasing misery. Like a dancer or a high-wire act, the modern West maintains a balance between perfectibility and imperfection more successfully and fruitfully than any other civilization in world history.

Posted by: remote_control at October 14, 2006 1:02 AM

Oops...forgot to put in:

"fascism" as the word to look up.

Posted by: HawkWatcher at October 14, 2006 1:03 AM

"The (Islamic) extremists think that we are weak..."

And they're right, for the time being. Not weak militarily, but even that will count for nothing if we rot from within like we're doing.

Compare the reaction of America to Pearl Harbor and 9-11.

The America of 1941 took names and kicked butt after the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, and counter-attacked relentlessly until the attackers were utterly defeated.

The America of 2001 took some names (Bin Laden for one) and kicked some butt in Afghanistan, but then quickly lost its way in Iraq and now is retreating into doubt and vacillation. Iran and North Korea are taking notes and acting accordingly.

America has the fire-power but no longer the will-power to do what needs to be done. At least that's how it looks right now to me. I hope I'm wrong. Granted, what needs to be done now is more complex than it was in 1941, but we need Churchills, not Bushes. Some brave, effective, and articulate leadership could go a long way to rectifying the current malaise.

Posted by: alexon at October 14, 2006 1:19 AM

The America of 1941 took names and kicked butt after the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, and counter-attacked relentlessly until the attackers were utterly defeated. by Alexon

All you say is true, but the sacrifices were tremendous. Here are two examples

Tarawa - 3000 US Marine casualties, 1000 of them KIA in three days of combat.

Guadalcanal - From August, 1942 to February, 1943. 6500 KIA (Army, Marines, and Navy)

Can you imagine what would happen if the Marines launched an offensive in Iraq or Afghanistan and had 3000 casualties in three days? The appeasers in this country would have Bush's head on a platter (figuratively, of course). There is on courage left in the US.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 14, 2006 1:58 AM

Posted by: zooboomafoo
"Islam is the only religion that is able to operate freely today. Any other comments or religious talk, is frowned upon."

This week, after spending hours online reading and observing other thoughts and comments on islam and how muzzl'ems(ohh yes, even the moderate ones)act and portray themselves; I have a conclusion: the majority can please islam;(no capitalization from now on to this name) to an exact quota from their reglious context and even so much, give a little more now a days. I have got to the point of thought that with 100% fullfillment of what islam asks of the Infidel; YOU WILL STILL BE AN INFIDEL and while living & breathing your are still commiting a sin in their unforgiving, hateful eyes.

(To Everyone)
After reading this: WAKE UP!!!!!

PS.Please don't think I hate races & religions from this comment block: This is what I feel in my heart... Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Luke 23 - 23:34

Posted by: Seaside702 at October 14, 2006 5:46 AM

Posted by: Pelayo

Can you imagine what would happen if the Marines launched an offensive in Iraq or Afghanistan and had 3000 casualties in three days? The appeasers in this country would have Bush's head on a platter (figuratively, of course). There is on courage left in the US.

I can imagine that, all the pussy foots are going to whine but when the time comes, I don't even have a feeling about what is going to be stirred up in the hearts of the men here in the USA..I already see it! I have been observing alot since the past three years and we have on our media alot(ALOT) of; "lets make friends and talk things out if we can," chats all over the local news and country wide news. Read other websites that have topics like this and observe and talk to others in the real world, I have felt it for the last year and have said it a week ago, we have been poked and teased and let back to sleep for a while, but the next shove will awake something that will eclipse what anyone has been saying will happen.

(In General)
I would think about propaganda, I would think about how the USA is perceiving itself; to others, an act that we are seperated and vunerable and unable to get things straightened out........

PS. When Hugo just said something about our president last month, did anyone notice how the Dems even spoke up and said, "excuse me, what did you say?" /with a head snap side to side

Posted by: Seaside702 at October 14, 2006 6:07 AM

limes said: I’m open to an explanation as to how a man can profess his faith to a religion but disavow the teachings of its Prophet.

I'm wondering the same thing, limes. Perhaps I don't understand much about Islam, but what is there that's any good? From what I understand, the whole "religion" is a farce. It's just a cover for a war cult created by a man who was just in it for himself. A David Koresh, or Jim Jones, Charles Manson type.

This reforming business - reform to me, means a little snip here, a tweak there. But with Islam, you'd have to take great big whacking loppers to it. Or a combine. And what would you be left with. The totally inconvenient 5-times-a-day praying thing? And what would they be praying for?

I don't get it.

Posted by: feralee at October 14, 2006 6:21 AM

islamists' say the darndest things.

Posted by: mustang65 at October 14, 2006 6:28 AM

To: americaningermany

I have been researching what I can find on the internet for months now and have seen alot of finds of new oil and have read that we have alot(ALOT) of our own oil resources not even tapped yet. If I played a game and could get some resources from another player for real cheap; while hording my own resources for the winter to come, I just might do that. Drain as much as possible from them until they have no more, then capitalize on them when they are fully out and we are just starting to tap into ours.

Seaside

Posted by: Seaside702 at October 14, 2006 7:07 AM

Understandable americaningermany, yep that was me emailing. Even if we were buying it at top value, take it, take it all! Then we make money back by selling it at double or kept it and let that break their economy,military,industrial;etc. One thing I know is that the military eats up alot of oil for their planes,tanks,arms, I could go on forever on this. With a weakend military, what do fight back with? It's either pay them double or suffer & beg for others to help you out.I dont really see any other countries giving aid in forms of high dollar amounts and aid all over the world like the US does.
Seaside

Posted by: Seaside702 at October 14, 2006 7:34 AM

"...surprise attack at Pearl Harbor..."

The population may have been surprised, the government certainly wasn't.
An interesting thing about this site is how closely it follows the model of various anti-talmud/anti-zionist sites(I am not referring to Islamic or nazi ones). Many of the ideas, behaviors,and attitudes one finds in Islamic "scriptures" and history has an equally offensive and troubling counterpart in the ideologies of Zionism and/or Pharisee'ism("Judaism")(including the heretical "Christian-Zionists").
Of course, "Zionists" are not running around blowing themselves up in suicide operations, or publicly declaring their ultimate objective of enslaving the world. But that only infers a difference of methodology and circumstance by itself.
Either way, both are antithetical to the teachings of Christ.

Posted by: Novy Mir at October 14, 2006 8:04 AM

Why, in reflective, peaceful, tolerant, accepting, open Canada?

No. It couldn't be.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at October 14, 2006 10:39 AM

Americaningermany, Mother Ecclesiastica and Seaside702,

As an avid stock investor with particular interest in the energy sector, I can tell you that the oil price is a function of supply and demand, period. I hope it is as simple as you women think, then my investment will be easy. I'll be retired very soon.

Seaside702, you are right that there is plenty of oil in the world. For example, news reported a few months ago that the huge oil reserves that are being mined from the sands of Alberta, Canada are so vast that they will help solve America's energy needs for the next century. But the problems are the technological difficulties and significant cost of the process of refining the oil sands into oil. The same is true to the fact that our unwanted Middle East ally Saudi Arabia had transported a lot of oil to America during the recent oil price surge to $80 a barrel, but it was our American companies that failed us by not being able to refine the oil into gasoline and heating oil on the supply side because they failed to anticipate the great global demand of oil -- not just USA, but also the up-and-coming capitalists China and India -- and did not invest in their outdated oil refinery facilities in recent years.

Having said the fundamental side of oil price, I can tell you one very important, but less known "technical" reason of oil futures price movement for which I profited handsomely : Historical low and historical high commodity prices tend to happen within a close time proximity in history. Commodity prices are determined by traders in the futures market, and human emotion can swing from one extreme to the other. In the case of the oil price, consumers’ emotion swung from complacency to fear when the oil price swung from $10 a barrel in 1999 to $80 a barrel in 2006. It is like a woman who turns love to hate to a man in a short period when she finds out that he does something wrong.

However, the good news is that by the time the public including you is convinced that such a high oil price is going to stay, the oil price goes down, and went down it did. The oil price will likely go back down to $40 a barrel under which the oil price has kept for 3 decades, before the public will be worried about a new high oil price of $100 a barrel in the next few years. So Seaside702 may have a chance to preach her provocative oil solution then. Infidels will listen.

Posted by: claude at October 14, 2006 12:07 PM

I too have questioned Tarek Fatah's motives and below is a post from his website which I commented on awhile back , Fatah claimed to have praised the RCMP for stopping the 17 Jihadists back in June of this year , but as you see he defended 19 Illegals that were booted out of Canada from their expired Visa's , forged Pass Ports, and bogus ID to get a Passport.
The cries of Racial profiling and Racism
by Fatah rings hollow because in both cases theses young Muslims males are of Pakistani background , it's a bit too late for him to pretend to be on OUR side .
Plus , I have posted on a Canadian forum
that the MCC is now embracing "Profiling"
towards the "Bad" Muslims because now THEY are the victims of death threats, prior to this Fatah ranted about the fear of "Backlash" from 9/11 as if non-Muslims are predisposed to violence over any offense to their faith, I remember predicting on JW/DW that CAIR would embrace Profiling once
the US mosques started being bombed by Al-Qaeda.
I just never expect Canada to be the first out of the gate for Muslims wanting special laws against Apostasy as part of profiling Muslims for
Islamists views, after all , why would the RCMP
scour the Churches and Stnagogue's for people aspousing the Apostate dogma to justify death threats.

The story below is on the MCC website in the 2003 achives and I don't have time to point out the glaring errors or deliberate missing facts from Fatah's triade about removing Illegals
that happen to be ale/Young/Sunni/Muslim/Pakistanis from a terrorist producing area of Pakistan.

***********************************************

TORONTO, August 27, 2003 - The Muslim Canadian Congress has strongly protested the depiction of Pakistanis as 'Sunni Muslim Extremists' by RCMP and other law enforcement agencies. The organization has asked the RCMP to unconditionally apologize for this act of racial profiling. The group also condemned the arrest of 19 innocent men on August 14 and demanded the immediate release of these detained men.
MCC, which is a grass roots Muslim organization based in Toronto, was reacting to the assertion by the agencies that the men were terror suspects simply because they were born in the Pakistani province of Punjab.
Jehad Aliweiwi, a founding member of the MCC said, "the allegations against these young men are so flimsy, they befit a cheap post 9/11 paperback thriller, not worthy of publication even backwater Texas." He said that the three van loads of so called evidence reminded him of the truckloads of evidence Colin Powell presented to the UN Security Council and therefore must be taken with a pinch of salt.
Arif Raza, a lawyer and community activist organizing part of the defence team for the Toronto 19 said, the RCMP actions are outrageously racist. "They most likely would not have been arrested and detained, if it was not for the pre-conceived racist notion prevalent among law enforcement agencies that people from Pakistan, the Arab world and other Muslims are violent, and prone to religious extremism."
Reacting to the statement by Terry McKay, the lawyer representing the minister of immigration, who said, "I guess the easiest way of putting it is there is a suggestion they might in fact be perhaps a sleeper cell for Al Qaeda," Arif Raza said the lawyer's statement indicates the government evidence is at most speculation and a product of fertile imagination.
Amina Sherazee, another member of the Muslim Canadian Congress and civil rights lawyer decried the climate of Racial-Profiling and the import of US styled hysteria about terrorism. She said, "Such hysteria and false propaganda led to an immoral war in Iraq, the death of tens of thousands over there, and the illegal arrest, detention and deportation of thousands of innocent human beings under the NSEERS pogrom." The American mistakes should not be duplicated in Canada, she added.

Tarek Fatah, founder of the MCC said, "If our constitutional rights under the Charter are to survive, then the rule of law must prevail and the 19 accorded due process." He said our forefathers fought and died for these rights around the world. "Men in uniform can destroy these significant and fundamental achievements, if they are left unsupervised by the Courts and unregulated by democratically elected civilian institutions," Tarek Fatah added.

**************************************************

The big Elephant in the room with Fatah is that these men were Illegals and part of the RCMP
project "Thread" which also rounded about 8 other Illegals that Fatah failed to mention , even on Fatah's deathbed he still claimed that being Illegal wasn't a crime and "Profiling" lead to the detentions and deportations.
Dr.Sheema Khan from CAIR-Canada used these Illegals during an Inquiry into "Islamophobia" by the RCMP and CSIS , but the Crown lawyer wasn't stupid and he got Khan (aka con-job Khan) tell the Judge and Inquiry where these people are today , she forced out the truth that they were removed from canada on Immigration infraction or Illegally over staying a Visa.
CAIR and the MCC and Elmasry at the CIC have one common link, they hate us and want Canada to become an Islamic State, oh yeah...and they all love to bash Israel ( code word for "The Jews") .

Again, the 17 Jihadists arrested in June with 6600.lbs of Amonium Nitrate prove that if the RCMP and CSIS followed the mantra from the MCC and Fatah, we'd have about 10'000 civilians slaughtered in Toronto and Fatah would blame the RCMP for NOT acting soon enoughto catch these "Bad" Muslims that smear the name of Islam.
I'm no fool and have followed the Islamic Org.'s in canada every since 9/11 and finding the JW website, the West is being treated like Mushrooms by CAIR/Hooper over the real goals of Islam, we're kept in the dark and fed s*it to avoid seeing the truth about Muhammad.

Posted by: ala-sux at October 14, 2006 1:10 PM

There's an editorial about this in today's Toronto Sun:

http://tinyurl.com/ynxlmt

Posted by: Josephine at October 14, 2006 2:22 PM

"Canadian moderate Muslim leader fears threats over liberal views"

Now that is what I call hijacking a religion, Muslims turning into a Quaker-like sect.

Based on the tenets of Islam, their lives are in danger.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 14, 2006 2:30 PM

"younger sister of Satan."

True, as she STILL considers herself a Muslum. Reform away, just watch who is behind you as you adjust the word of "allah", sent through a angel of darkness, to a warrior.

I would advise to reject islam, on that day the sun will shine. She is alive, still has time to wake to the truth.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at October 14, 2006 3:22 PM

"Can you imagine what would happen if the Marines launched an offensive in Iraq or Afghanistan and had 3000 casualties in three days? The appeasers in this country would have Bush's head on a platter (figuratively, of course). There is on courage left in the US." -- Pelayo

I wouldn't go so far as to say there is no courage left in the U.S. but there certainly has been a dramatic erosion of pride, resolve, strength, and purpose.

I saw on a WWII documentary the other day that there were some 10,000 Allied casualties, most of them American, on the very first day of the Normandy Invasion. ON ONE DAY! Can you imagine America sacrificing for a cause like that again?

$ The one thing that bothered me about our response in Afghanistan was that our generals and political leadership decided to blast the Taliban out by use of air power and special forces, almost exclusively. Yes it worked but it might have been wise to go in full bore with larger ground forces too to really mop up the bastards, incl. OBL, Mullah Omar, and the other 'high value targets'. I believe it would also have been valuable to let greater numbers of our troops get in there to kick butt. Yes we would've taken some casualties but it would show to all how serious we are about things.

There are patriots and heroes left. The prime example is Pat Tillman, the former Arizona Cardinals football DB who turned his back on NFL $ Millions $ in order to join the Army Rangers to FIGHT FOR AMERICA. He was tragically killed in a 'friendly fire' incident in Afghanistan. Talk about SACRIFICE! And loss. We need many many more Pat Tillmans if we are to come out on top in the end.

By the way, there is an ESPN special tomorrow morning (Sunday morning at 9:30am EST) on Pat Tillman called "Outside the Lines" which deals with his journey from the NFL to Afghanistan and tragic death. The preview showed fellow Rangers being interviewed who were there at the scene on the day he was killed. Maybe this will settle the issue of how he died once and for all. I hope so, but I also hope that it will be mainly a tribute to one man's bravery, dedication, and service to his country, to all of us. Pat Tillman, American Hero, RIP.

Posted by: alexon at October 14, 2006 11:24 PM

In order, friends, of your postings:

Meharistes/
Why do you "naturally" oppose me and mine when we have never attacked the society in which we are forced to live - never flown planes into buildings, never bombed undergrounds and suburban railway lines, never suicided in crowded public places in order to kill people who oppose us, never perched on top of buildings and used sniper tactics to kill innocents, never blown up government offices, never chucked disabled American citizens into the sea from the decks of cruise liners, never, in short, done anything other that ask for legal recognition by legal means? Do you simply want to impose your sexual morality on everyone regardless of whether or not they are made in the same way that you are? Hmmm! With friends like you, who needs enemies? Anyway, who do you think the moslems would kill first - you right-wingers or we gays? It's easy to disparage us when you know that we are in the firing line ahead of you, isn't it?

Pelayo/
I read your additional posts by following the link. Thank-you, that was easy. I think that we are probably talking at cross-purposes. My original point wasn't really about whether or not we Brits were armed but about how our two countries' approaches to the arming of our respective citizens would, of necessity, be different given the different cultural situation. Ours is a much more integrated country than yours. You have to call the militia out - our citizen militia is part of the establishment. It is the volunteer Territorial Army, the RAF Regiment, the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve, the 'Specials' in the Police Forces - there isn't quite the same dichotomy between the 'establishment' and the 'citizen' in the UK that there is in the USA.

There isn't, even, quite the same distance between an elector and his/her representative over here as there is in the USA. We are a much more vertically integrated society (to coin modern jargon) than you are - probably because we are physically a much smaller and more crowded country. Quite simply, we do not have the same distrust of central government that you do and central government is much closer to each and every one of us than it is in the 'states.

From your point of view you should not try to view us a similar but as foreign. Simply because we speak nearly the same language - grief, how I wish that you lot spoke English instead of American English - doesn't mean that our cultural and political mores have to be, or are, in any way similar. They are not and thereby lies a huge misunderstanding between us.

Alexon/
You have missed the point. The Muslim Canadian Congress's beliefs are no more moderate than any other islamic organisation's. The only thing that could, by a huge stretch of the imagination, be called moderate is the way they wish to impose those beliefs.

The beliefs of this pernicious organisation are still a herd of elephants and I have no desire to try to consume those animals. Read their website - closely!

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at October 14, 2006 11:36 PM

"As a nationalist conservative & Western patriot I naturally oppose homosexualists and "gay rights,"

Well as a nationalist conservative and western patriot *I* naturally support gay rights. So there. The west is about personal freedom, equality before the law and equal human rights.

Posted by: Lili at October 15, 2006 1:41 AM

And for goodness sake, man, nobody has said 'homosexualists' for about a century! As I said to a raving anti-homosexual once, and it shut him up good: 'don't worry, I'm sure none of them would find you in the least attractive!'

Posted by: Lili at October 15, 2006 1:46 AM

Lili/

You do the soul good. I couldn't agree with you more, nor thank-you more - and I haven't laughed so much in days. With friends like you I know that we can win against the moslem horde - all of us, thank God. Thank-you.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at October 15, 2006 1:55 AM

:), yes we're on the same side Dominic. And I thank you for your intelligent posts, it does my heart good that you post here.

Posted by: Lili at October 15, 2006 2:16 AM

Lili,

Thank-you.

Sincerely,

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at October 15, 2006 2:44 AM