Re: "And meanwhile, Islamic apologists in the U.S. blandly claim that Islam has no death penalty for apostasy, and call me "Islamophobic" for pointing out that it actually does (Salam Al-Maryati of MPAC did this to me on the Medved show not long ago, and it has happened elsewhere also)".

Are they liars or in denial about the facts? The belief-system tends to foster a Baghdad Bob approach to facts. ("Islamophobic" is equivalent to being called "anti-soviet" or "revisionist" in the old USSR. It's meaningless and a parrot response to the unpleasant facts re the Islamic belief-system.)

Posted by: Frank at October 18, 2006 8:01 AM

I'm not at all surprised at every abomination that this cult commits anymore. I finally finished reading the Koran and brother that book is really a doozy. Besides being repetiiive, confusing with its tenses, rather unoriginal and boring in the extreme it is highly negative. It's as if it came from a negative universe with its constant references to damnation and what will happen to unbelievers. Funny-I would think a book of this type would concern itself more with improving the spirit of its believers but instead it drones on about how "infidels" will be drinking boiling water in hell. And Allah sure comes off as a wonderful god-boasting of how many people he's killed in the past and threatening to replace the Muslims with another people if they too displease him. I wasn't sure if I should convert out of sheer fear of this god or turn athiest because I would not think God can be this cruel and merciless. After being raised on such a book that coerces its followers with repetitive fear of a cruel god it's no wonder Islamania is what it is. I applaud anyone who has the guts to leave such a philosophy that's the exact opposite of what most of the world follows.

P.S. Only one other book I have ever read surpasses the Koran for poor writing style, factual errors, boredom and total bleakness. That book was Mein Kampf.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 18, 2006 8:08 AM

StillFedUp, yes, it's a no-brainer. AbdulRahman ("Servant of the Merciful"--no wonder the man didn't change his name to Paul or something like that)stays, and the Third Worlder goes.

This also shows that the terrorists expect a Western government to simply kidnap a citizen or peaceful sojourner without regard for law or morality. The goong in Gitmo have it way too easy.

Posted by: Kepha at October 18, 2006 8:23 AM

To answer americaningermany, who says, "They just can't let it go can they. They just cannot let one poor Christian convert go":

Imagine if they did. Imagine how many more converts there would be! If conversion were not a capital crime, then neither would proselytization be. Next thing you know, there would be freedom of religion. Oh, the horror!

So, from the Muslims' point of view, their pursuit of this one man makes perfect sense.

Posted by: Frieda at October 18, 2006 8:30 AM

StillFedUp-

I also find little in the Koran that gives comfort-the parts that do basically came from the "apes and pigs" before them. That might remotely explain why anyone would convert to such nihilism, but even that's a stretch. Such people would be far better off being "apes or pigs".

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 18, 2006 8:38 AM

Islamsforlosers
but do we really need to get dragged down to that Barbaric level? Men Rule, and Pigs Lord it in the s**t.

On your other subject, I started to read the Koran once, but the first substantial part of it kept insisting how I should believe that the Koran is the Absolute Word of God, and if I didn't believe that then I would go to hell.

I didn't think that this was much of an argument, and I didn't like being told what to do so repetitively, so I gave up.

I don’t know if anyone else feels this way, but when I read the New Testament, I get a nice feeling of calm. I know that Jesus loves me, and that I love my fellow man as I love God (I'd like to think that you don't even have to believe in God to feel cosy while reading the NT). As I was reading the Koran, I just felt an ensuing and creeping sense of psychosis.

It's now sitting on the bookshelf between Edgar Allen Poe and Lord Byron in the CrAZy poets section.

Posted by: FREE LEE at October 18, 2006 10:38 AM

FREE LEE-

I don't blame you for giving up on the Koran. One needs to be a mindless robot to accept all that stuff. If Allah is indeed God then I'm becoming an atheist.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 18, 2006 10:50 AM

"We want this issue resolved before the end of Ramadan," the PeaceReporter website quoted them as saying. The holy Muslim fasting month of Ramadan ends this year on October 24.

There is NOTHING *HOLY* about their stupid month of fasting.. NOR is there anything hloy about this moon cult called pigslam.

NO MORE REPORTERS AND WESTERN MEDIA in the ME!! Make an announcement that anyone who goes WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES!!! Ihave nothing agianst liberating hostages by forces nor do I mind retaliatory missions. But NO "NEGOTIATIONS" with terrorists! PERIOD!!!!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 18, 2006 11:02 AM

"We want this issue resolved before the end of Ramadan," the PeaceReporter website quoted them as saying. The holy Muslim fasting month of Ramadan ends this year on October 24.

There is NOTHING *HOLY* about their stupid month of fasting.. NOR is there anything hloy about this moon cult called pigslam.

NO MORE REPORTERS AND WESTERN MEDIA in the ME!! Make an announcement that anyone who goes WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES!!! Ihave nothing agianst liberating hostages by forces nor do I mind retaliatory missions. But NO "NEGOTIATIONS" with terrorists! PERIOD!!!!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 18, 2006 11:02 AM

I heard in German television today one of our Leftist politicians complaining over a "German citizen" (hint: he's actually an islamic terrorist suspect) could be "kidnapped" by American Secret Service and shipped off to Guantanamo.
He said: "We cannot allow the American Secret Service to just kidnap a German citizen and accuse him of terrorism"!

Let me guess.. this was either one of the Greens.. or was it an SPD.. or.. PDS.. Hmmmm.. so many nice communist parties in Germany to choose from!!

I really think we should divide all the Eurolands between those who want to live WITHOUT the ismalimc plague and the other half for the commies and multikultis who do. Then we'll compare notes "10 years after"..

We all know the commies would NEVER allow us to live happily alone and without their misery and the even greater misery called pigslam!

Can anyone tell me ONE country where one can live without islams and commies - free of bellyaching and mea culpa?

Why do these commies and multikultis have to ruin things for the REST OF US???!!!! All they seek is to bring us down!

VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!!!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 18, 2006 11:09 AM

Abdul Rahman answered the critic of RS's book at Amazon.com -
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013595.php#c285348
He is a brave man.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 18, 2006 11:41 AM

I have been re-reading, and reading anew all my copies of Spencer's books while checking the references provided.

The more I learn about islam, the more I loath it for the evil that it is.

What I am troubled by here with this story is that I believe that the Abdul Rahman, who converted from Islam to Christianity will now be spirited away to Afghanistan.

Considering that Prodi with Chirac have approved the transfer of advanced air defense system to Hamas as a concession to alliance with the Arab bloc -- why would they not approve this transfer also?

I see no reason why they would preclude such a deal.

But this is not as surprizing as (and I hate to bring this up again) this:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/10/20061016-6.html

If this link still works, watch the video closely. Notice, that the immam invited to speak gives the usual greeting in arabic to his muslim audience, but does not seem to be addressing the President with that same greeting.

I also noticed the immam's prayer to "god" in English, but never mentions "allah" accept when he uses arabic.

As Spencer points out in several of his writings, prayers to allah must be done only in arabic othewise according to the koran -- allah never receives such prayers.

So on one level, the immam's prayer sounds pleasing to the Western ear and mentions things like peace to everyone of goodwill -- it really is invalid and means nothing at all in the context of islamic understanding.

The immam as well as his islamic audience understand that fact and our President who in reality was slightly, never seems to understand or catch on.

Toward the end of the clip, the immam again invokes the name of allah -- their actual god -- in arabic.

Look at this thing for yourselves and see what you think.

It would be especially enlightening if Spencer or Fitzgerald would look at this thing and offer their analysis.

Could it be that Prodi, Chirac, and for that matter Bush don't understand what they are dealing with?

Or is it the case that they have unwittingly or perhaps knowingly become dhimmis themselves in which case all non-muslims are endanger of being kidnapped, hauled before islamic courts, and murdered?

I wonder ....

Posted by: witness at October 18, 2006 11:43 AM

I bet Abdul Rahman would give up his life to free the Italian. He was willing to die for his beliefs the first time they had him. Scripture promises you that things like this will happen.

Posted by: PRCalDude at October 18, 2006 11:51 AM

Can anyone tell me ONE country where one can live without islams and commies - free of bellyaching and mea culpa?

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 18, 2006 11:09 AM

Japan?

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 18, 2006 11:52 AM

Maybe we could send a thousand of our muslims in exchange for that one journalist. Then put him on a plane back to islamland.

Posted by: freewoman at October 18, 2006 11:56 AM

Baghdad Bob was/is the perfect spokesman for the religion of peace. A perfidious sack, who demands of his audience, "What do you belive, what I tell you or what you see with your own lying eyes?"

Posted by: MP at October 18, 2006 12:52 PM

Baghdad Bob was/is the perfect spokesman for the religion of peace. A perfidious sack, who demands of his audience, "What do you belive, what I tell you or what you see with your own lying eyes?"

Posted by: MP at October 18, 2006 12:52 PM

And meanwhile, Islamic apologists in the U.S. blandly claim that Islam has no death penalty for apostasy, and call me "Islamophobic" for pointing out that it actually does (Salam Al-Maryati of MPAC did this to me on the Medved show not long ago, and it has happened elsewhere also).

Apparently there are two versions of the Koran. One version is the P.R. one, designed for us infidels so that we may know all the good of Allah and Mo and their teachings. Then there's the other Koran, delivered direct from Allah himself (and in need of proofreading compared to the P.R. version), which is what the "peaceful" ones follow in deeds every day. My hat's off to Robert Spencer, who gets more than his fill of the P.R. Koran every day. I don't think I could stomach it that much.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 18, 2006 1:12 PM

This is somewhat OT but non the less relevant to us all:

Hugh wrote at Dhimmi Watch at October 18, 2006 01:06 PM
"Those who wish to cease contributing to the World Council of Churches, and to constituent bodies that have proven objectively to be supporters or promoters or even defenders of Jihad, and are casting about, are encouraged to make donations that will most effectively encourage awareness of the tenets, attitudes, atmospherics of Islam, and of the significance of this for the continued wellbeing of Infidels in the Lands of the Infidels. Jihad Watch would be a good place to consider. Ali Sina's Faith Freedom another. New English Review still another. And no doubt there are others that you may find, upon inspection, worthy of your support."

Splendid suggestion from our stalwart knight!

Jihad Watch is a 501 (c) 3 organization. Donations are tax-deductible.
I found the donation button on the Jihad Watch home page and with one click, I was taken right to my PayPal account. My sense of well-being rose tremendously.

Posted by: Malinois at October 18, 2006 2:20 PM

Let them keep the muslim journalist. The West needs a muslim journalist like it needs a hole in the head. Hope he's happy with them.

Posted by: atheling at October 18, 2006 3:01 PM

Seriously, if the Italian is a muslim convert and we have the Afghani convert to Christianity, what's to trade?

Ah, but let's not forget that if Italy lets a white Italian Muslim die at the hands of his fellow Muslims in order to save the life of a non-white Afghani convert to Christianity, they'll not only be guilty of Islamophobia, but also of racism!

//ow, my head.... %-P

Posted by: yadayada at October 18, 2006 3:06 PM

no, he will be probably repeat to himself while he's behaded "it's a tiny minority..."

Either that, or he may consider himself a faithful martyr to the cause of preserving the "unity of the ummah".

Or he may be thinking, "Waitasec, I thought sura 4:93 said it was wrong for a Muslim to intentionally kill another Muslim. Maybe I just read it out of context...."

Posted by: yadayada at October 18, 2006 3:22 PM

I wonder what a psychiatrist`s analysis of Muhammad would reveal.
Has one been done , let me know please !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at October 18, 2006 4:18 PM

It is hard to define the koran. Repetitive, trite, and full of blood curdling threats against mankind. The only way is to regard it as the mouthings of a demented person.

My copy of the koran sits next to Rusdie's Satanic verses. I think it is befitting.

Posted by: DP111 at October 18, 2006 4:37 PM

Malinois

I would also like to say a word for the Barnabus Fund. It is one organisation that gives support, both moral and finacial to the persecuted Christians in Muslim nations. Barnabus Fund has also publicly raised the issue of Apostasy, by campaigns and letters.

Posted by: DP111 at October 18, 2006 4:43 PM

RoP, MA!

Posted by: Dumbo at October 18, 2006 5:16 PM

I wonder what a psychiatrist`s analysis of Muhammad would reveal.
Has one been done , let me know please !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at October 18, 2006 04:18 PM

I don't know if one has been done on ol' Mo, but I know there are some psycho-analysts who have done historical narratives on important figures in history. Freud and Jung is where I'd look first. Something is telling me that Mo hasn't been done though since I haven't seen it discussed yet at JW. But now I'm interested and will search too!

Posted by: YankeeinNederland at October 18, 2006 5:18 PM

islam at its fineat!

Posted by: Dumbo at October 18, 2006 5:24 PM

Afghanistan: 13-Year-Old Jailed for Escaping Arranged Marriage

http://www.westernresistance.com/

Scroll down to the article.

Posted by: DP111 at October 18, 2006 5:39 PM

Abdul Rahman needs to RUN NOW to the Vatican and seek asylum there. I pray to God that he does.

Like many here I cant imagine the Italian government hanging on to him over one of their own citizens. No country that values citizenship, even one with a Leftist gov, would choose a non-citizen over a citizen.

I hope that he is already there.

Posted by: peggy32 at October 18, 2006 8:15 PM

The answer as to why anyone with any intelligence would convert to Islam after reading the Koran is one of the following depending on the person.

1) desparation

2) isolation

3) rejection

4) elitism

5) going native syndrome

6) Stockholm syndrome/post traumatic syndrome

7) the grass is always greener anywhere but in ones own back yard syndrome

8) confusing all the damnation and hellfire in the Koran and extremely strict and detailed laws with moral seriousness to the point that one ignores the disparity between the threats and words of love so that just a few mentions of love and comfort equal exactly the same percentage of these texts in the Bible. In other words, these folks accept an inversion of relity for the sake of prancing as a member of what only seems like a more morally serious faith.

9)utopianism (These are the same types that would have been communists during the Cold War)

They arent stupid by any means. But they are seriously troubled people. You have to be sick in the head to prefer the Koran over the Bible.

Posted by: peggy32 at October 18, 2006 8:26 PM

I have theory re the Koran's repetiveness.

Brainwashing.

Repeat something over and over and over and one enters into a self induces hynotic or trance like state. This is what happens when one repeats a mantra for example.

Then think about how people are taught to read the Koran. They have to rock incessantly while droning/sing-songing the words. Tell me thats not hynotic and or adictive.

Take a person who has rejected our society or feels rejected by it, one who sees nothing but the negatives of our way of life and its lack of perfection (many converts are perfectionists and over-achievers especially when it comes to their original faith). Then they encounter the exotic culture of islam and are taught that the Koran is properly read in such a way (all while being "tutored" in what it "really" means by helpful extremely friendly Muslims without any similiar personal contact with knowledgeable Christians) and is it any wonder that they seem to lose all sense before long and are soon converted?

Think about it. Make sure everyone dear to you is aware of it too. Rocking produces euphoric chemicals which are addictive. Its not the words. Its the method of reading.

Working oneself into a trance reading a book is not the same as being uplifted by the words alone as happens with the Bible. Just read Psalm 23. No rocking and sing-song will be necessary
;-)

Posted by: peggy32 at October 18, 2006 8:40 PM

I have theory re the Koran's repetiveness.

Brainwashing.

Posted by: peggy32 at October 18, 2006 08:40 PM

Exactly my thought. Joseph Goebbels must have been inspired by the Koran, since he said if you repeat a lie enough times people will believe it as truth. The Koran scares its followers into remaining in the fold. Then they go out and try to coerce the rest of us. What a deal.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 18, 2006 9:00 PM

The kidnappers of an Italian photojournalist in Afghanistan have demanded...

Kidnapped? This is just a set-up. Wasn't there a German woman, a muslim convert too, 'kidnapped ' in Iraq earlier this year? And the stupid German government relased a muslim murderer (of course purely coincidentally) at the time and paid some ransom. When she got back, she was all about how nicely she was treated and all. It's the perfect extortion scheme. Kidnapp your own and get what you want.

Posted by: Canis Lupus at October 18, 2006 9:20 PM

ISLAMSFORLOSERS,
Sadly, Japan is not a refuge. The Japanese translator for Rushdie's "Satanic Verses" was killed by a Muslim in Japan.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-translator.html

Posted by: non-redneck at October 18, 2006 9:44 PM

Has anybody thought that maybe this Muslim convert journalist is faking being kidnapped in order to help carry out the will of Mohammed? Perhaps he is a part of the plan to kill this Christian convert.

Posted by: non-redneck at October 18, 2006 9:46 PM

(cf. Bukhari 4.52.260).

people who wish to take hadith as being the template upon which Islam is built are being misled.
Some commentators remark that there are 600,000 hadith of which they consider only 200,000 to be valid.
if you wish to learn about Islam then you have to read a good translation of the Quran (I recommend Pickthall) which contains explanatory commentary and historical commentary too.
i'm looking forward to educating people on what is real islam and not perverted perceptions based upon works by people who simply wish to criticize!

Posted by: bigbadbob at October 21, 2006 8:37 AM