How utterly depressing to witness the destruction of Western Europe at the hands of a handful of savages. That's why I rarely read this site anymore. It just ruins my day to read stuff like this.

Posted by: george_rem at October 19, 2006 11:58 PM

If you have a pack of slobbering rabid dogs that have no future in life, because the disease has basically killed them already, running for you, you shoot them.

The police missed the opportunity to put these animals out of their misery.

And ours.

Posted by: freewoman at October 20, 2006 12:00 AM

The police need to break as many heads as possible. Never mind worryng about touching off further violence. If the police are allowed to actually fight back a lot of these "courageous" youths will think twice before causing mayhem. A cracked skull is a great way to see things differently. Going after these punks in a half-hearted manner like last year WILL provoke more
trouble. Do it right or watch France burn.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 20, 2006 12:05 AM

ISLAMSFORLOSERS: Western Europe, not just France, has no political will to deal with the internal Islamic threat. They are doomed.

Posted by: george_rem at October 20, 2006 12:21 AM

We hear the most outrageous lies from almost ALL muslim sources but we are not allowed to even speak the truth of how we feel about these
lies as we might upset some PC liberal or some saintly muslim.

We know of near 1400 years of undiluted persecution of nonMuslims by Muslims but woe and betide us if we dare show outrage as the past has no role to play in the affairs of today and what do we peasants know?

We are allowed to daily read of Muslim massacres of nonMuslims sometimes in the most barbaric manner. We read of no similar massacres of
muslims by non muslims and if we did we would be forbidden to cheer so as not to upset the same Muslims planning to take over the whole
world by force.

We see evidence all around us of islamic lies, muslim doublespeak, Islamic treason, muslim theft, islamic dishonesty, Muslim violence but
if we dare even hint about retaliating in like or any way at all, we are the greater criminals.

We are supposed to react to the frenzy of islamic violence by turning the other cheek and ignoring it, as it is NOT allowed to even think
of retaliation,let alone speak of it here or elsewhere.

We have a country, mostly muslim, doing their best to induce a future nuclear armageddon with the almost certain result that a world war
will break out for which ALL of us are unprepared and vulnerable. BUT if you speak of stepping in early to reduce this threat you are the criminal.

They threatenn to bomb our cities and kill us but we do not dare talk of bombing Mecca the residence of the devil as , God Forbid!! Someone
might read it and be offended.

Some of us receive daily insults or daily threats of beheading, stabbings or similar Islamic punishments from both individuals and groups but if you even DISCUSS doing likewise in return, you are treated as though you are a pariah.

I made a suggestion that instead of waiting for the mythical muslim moderate to descend from fairyland and reform islam so that they will
not kill all of us unbelievers, that we, instead, give them all an ultimatum: a choice of 2 ways to go: Moderate or die!!

This is a perfectly valid political and military decision despite the attempts of the PC to deny it. It made NO threats towards "moderate" Muslims only those who advocate or practise violence. What happens? My post is deleted.

I do not care about upsetting Muslims or PC liberals or bleeding heart christians.
All I care about is the survival of western civilisation as it is this which feeds most men and without it mankind's survival will be at
risk not to mention most of his great works.

This is why I am a hardliner re Islam and why I will continue to be one. I give them the same tolerance that they give us.No more and no less.
But I am NO hatemonger, no racist and no bigot as I have the truth of 1400 years of Islamic intolerance and violence to back up and verify
my attitudes.

However, it is obvious that all of my posts here which hint at treating muslims in exactly the same way that they treat us, ill be deleted.

THAT IS WHY WE ARE LOSING.
THAT IS WY WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE.

This part of the world does NOT belong to Allah so why do we bow to him and his demands however trite?
I can see no point in kowtowing to the pretentious and hypocritical posturing of the tribe of islam,and its nonMuslim apologists and
supporters. That is what they desire: to have us bound and silenced and hamstrung not by their strength but by our own desire for peace and
decency and our dislike of offending others. All of these concepts have no place in islam except in their application towards our own
destruction. By being TOO scared to be honest we are paying an intellectual jizaya and showing them that they hold the power, not us.

We should start our Poitiers, or our Vienna HERE and NOW by REFUSING to pander to the enemy by denying them our acceptance of the invisible
bars of Muslim censorship, which are the first insidious strands of Sharia razor wire and they are HERE already.

So, my Point is that I know why the post was deleted and I understand fully. That is what appalls me. As clearly you do not.

Posted by: MisIslamist at October 20, 2006 12:23 AM

At least the French police did something.

If this happened in the U.K., would the police be required to notify and meet with the appropriate Muslim cleric before taking any action? And would that meeting confirm that it was all a "misunderstanding" and that there was no need for any police action at all?

Posted by: s at October 20, 2006 12:54 AM

Mr Spencer isn't the correct term Yoots not youths

Posted by: jimmytheclaw at October 20, 2006 1:55 AM

Two events on radio in France this morning.

1. A Muslim hit a male Gynaecologist who had just got his wife through a difficult birth, because he was male of course.

2. At Charles de Gaulle airport after what seems like much discussion we have a ban on Muslims from certain secure areas. We then had a Muslim declaring that this was discrimination against a religion (yep and about time too) and then saying at his Mosque he was taught not to carry out crimes (the normal bullshit that we do not believe.)

They also mentioned these arrests, but did not say too much.

Finally on TF1 20:000 news, Sarkozy was again blaming the magistrates for being soft.

No mention at all in the MSM in France about the debacle of a decision won by France 2.

It seems that the squeeze is being put on the Muslim population across Europe, in other words chose where you loyalties lie..., plenty of scope for Muslim lying but, at least it is a start.

Posted by: Daffersd at October 20, 2006 2:17 AM

During my daughter's first gang rape trial (she has been through four so far with one more retrial to come in November) a French television crew were here to see how Australian courts deal with the problem.Thats when I found out how endemic it is in France.But to be honest when France falls I won't shed a tear for they are and always have been yellow bellied cowards.
This time we won't come to help them,the sooner Europe dies the better.

Posted by: D.T. at October 20, 2006 2:24 AM

In the United States, during the 60's and 70's, repeated instances of judges handing out lenient sentences for horrific crimes led to a public backlash, which caused Congress to create the United States Sentencing Commission. The Sentencing Commission created MANDATORY sentences for various federal offenses, which removed just about the entirety of judicial discretion regarding criminal sentences.

Liberal judges, and their friends throughout the legal field, have too this day decried the "harshness" of the mandatory sentences. But that severity in sentences allowed America to emerge from its own self-imposed fearfulness, and domestic insecurity.

New York City was saved because of the work done by men like Rudy, BUT ALSO because of the sentences being imposed due to the mandatory sentences resulting from Congressional legislation.

So instead of lambasting lenient French magistrates, Sarkozy would be better advised to pass laws removing judicial discretion on sentencing.

Posted by: Dan at October 20, 2006 2:30 AM

DT, our prayers are with you, your daughter, and your family.

Posted by: Dan at October 20, 2006 2:36 AM

DT, I have a daughter and my heart weeps for you and your daughter. Yes it is endemic in Europe, especially countries with large Muslim populations.

Dan, I agree that is what Sarkozy should do, perhaps he is setting the scene for that.

Posted by: Daffersd at October 20, 2006 5:15 AM

How long does France have to wallow in the mire of Islamic filth before there is civil war or
the military have to step in ?

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at October 20, 2006 5:49 AM

Its odd, because I always thought the French were pretty good at keeping the population in line when they crossed a certain line. When..., is a big question?

Posted by: Daffersd at October 20, 2006 6:27 AM

The French Police Union have the proper view:

The Synergie-Officier police union said it was "revolted by this savage attack .... These explosions of violence against the police are a kind of guerrilla warfare aimed at getting the forces of law and order to leave certain areas in order to immerse them in a logic of sedition and terror."

The line is drawn for the French but the Prime Minister is still "evaluating the proper response" to these hoodlums. It seems he doesn't know how to act in a state of war.
The French army should invade the slums with tanks.

Posted by: Briars at October 20, 2006 6:54 AM

Here is some good news.....
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1237920,00.html

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at October 20, 2006 7:11 AM

New York City was saved because of the work done by men like Rudy, BUT ALSO because of the sentences being imposed due to the mandatory sentences resulting from Congressional legislation.
-Posted by: Dan at October 20, 2006 02:30 AM

In NYC, all crime is down by about 50% what it was 10 or 15 years ago. (I don't remember the exact amount, but it is dramatic.) NYC had been focusing on major crime and ignoring lots of small crime. NYC's police had a major refocus a few years back—they started investigating and prosecuting all crimes. In NYC, the police are finding that many of the major criminals are being locked up for petty offences. Also, now that NYC has less crime, police are in a better position—they have more assets to investigate crimes now and are better able to cover the city so that neighborhoods "where police won't go" don't develop. France might try the policy New York City adopted regarding crime, especially crimes by "Asian" and "African" Youths. If they know that there is zero tolerance for their criminal deeds, they will be much less likely to try.

Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia at October 20, 2006 7:24 AM

you would think that France (according to their elites) would be immune to muslim assaults, as they champion the rights of muslims in and around Israel.
l posted earlier, l was away at a dog sporting eventrecently, (Wash.DC), we had a French dog trainer who works and trains polic dogs, btw they prefer the "Belgian Malinois" as they are quickest to bite and wired so fast, hard to live with for a family dog. anyhow l asked him how were they doing against their muslim youth problem. His once very proud face as he had talked about training his dogs turned to a look of disgust as he said the police cannot use their dogs against the muslim youth. and from what he said, it would go against the government pc attitude against muslims. l just told him to spare the dogs, and use your guns. l did not ask if their police had guns, it would of been too demeaning. Talking to the common working people in Europe, they are fed up, and want police to come down on these monsters. as they saying goes, when the straw breaks the camels back, l know human nature, and muslims will be sorry they ever came to Europe.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at October 20, 2006 7:29 AM

This is France, watch the video.

http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=10572

Posted by: Daffersd at October 20, 2006 7:40 AM

Daffrsd:

Yes, this young French girl is through Jihad Watching as is her young kinsmen in Britain's Preston and Windsor and her young Australian kinsmen in Cronulla. They know the proper response to these barbarians even though they are considered outlaws by their spineless governments. Their elders continue to talk and watch while their cultures are being attacked.

Posted by: Briars at October 20, 2006 7:51 AM

Another good French site is this one in English:

http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/

Briars, go to the post about Britain being the number one target of Al Queda, and see what I and some other Brits think.

Posted by: Daffersd at October 20, 2006 8:01 AM

"NYC had been focusing on major crime and ignoring lots of small crime."

That's true. The change of focus to taking petty crime seriously dramatically reduced overall crime. For example, the police would arrest someone for jumping a subway turnstile (with no prior record). He would go into the database (fingerprints, etc.), and later, when the guy committed a felony, they knew exactly who comitted the crime and often went right to where he lived and arrested him. The policy also resulted in many serious criminals being apprehended after an arrest for a petty offense.

Posted by: Frank at October 20, 2006 8:28 AM

Silence or inaction in the face of evil is an abomination.

Let the opposition and deportations begin.

Posted by: dgene at October 20, 2006 9:22 AM

The time has come to add a weight room to every police station France and give French police officers the free reign to use guns when confronting these violent French Muslims.

Posted by: Johnathan at October 20, 2006 10:12 AM

At the break where I surf, there was some "youths" from Newark that had a problem with some of the young surfers' girlfriend's swimwear. This break is relativly isolated, and the problem was handled quickly, quietly. No politicians, police, or newspaper reporters. No muslims in the past 5 month have ever showed up again.

Moral of the story: Handle the problem yourselves.

Posted by: ShortBoard Surfer at October 20, 2006 10:28 AM

Thats it, the Muslims have officially won. Welcome to the beginning of a new dark age. Goodbye technological advancements and bear, the world will miss you.

Posted by: VileInfidelNeocon at October 20, 2006 10:46 AM

RE: americaningermany at October 20,2006 07:01AM

The time will come when the People rise up against the primitives. Retribution will be swift and thorough and final. In the meantime, boycott anything muslim, do not look at them, make loud vocal comments if they are dressed like sandpeople, if they speak their languages, let them know we hate everything muslim. Let them feel our growing wrath. Let them know that we will rise up and eliminate them. They do not want to assimilate, so deport them all, destroy their mosques, and if they launch an attack again against us atom Mecca!

Posted by: Truthseeker at October 20, 2006 10:55 AM

Good on ya' shortboarad surfer. We don't need no steenkin' badges!

Posted by: MP at October 20, 2006 12:14 PM

The French are on their own now. French fries, anyone???

Posted by: pythagoras at October 20, 2006 2:01 PM

France is the real culprit in western Europe's present dilemma with Islamic militant immigrants now spreading havoc across the continent.

As mentioned in 'Eurabia,' during the 1950s de Gaulle's government encouraged large-scale Islamic immigration into France with the hope of training mujahidin armies to use against America and defeat it as a competitor state. He had envisioned the creation of a European super-state merged with the Middle East. The EU is a product of this man's brainstorm.

Far-fetched? Not when you consider that France sheltered the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini for years and has been the home of Mrs. Yasser Arafat for many years as well. Ayatollah Khomeini was the inspiration for the global Islamic terrorism movement we are now being stalked by. France should have killed this man and his movement--but instead the French incubated him and his evil agenda. Arafat was a terrorist as well no wonder Mrs. Arafat feels so at home there. Francophile Johnny Depp has been cast to play a terrorist in a forthcoming feature film (birds of a feather?). Jacques Chirac was a personal buddy of Saddam Hussein's ( the Muslim man who put live, screaming human beings into meat grinders!!!).

The French were determined to slit Americans' throats. They slit their own instead. Karma rules! But, of course, that doesn't help any of us now.

Incidentally, I am also fairly sure that if de Gaulle had not invited the Muslim immigrants into Europe the Hamburg al-Qaeda cell that plotted 9-11 would not have been in Europe, America would not have been the jihadists' target of choice, and America would have been spared that nightmarish episode. So in a sense, 9-11 was a French attack on Americans. De Gaulle was hoping for something like that but died before it could be realized. Too bad he couldn't get to see it.

Posted by: pythagoras at October 20, 2006 2:28 PM

France can't stop this, but threatens Israel's planes over Lebanon? Looks like they truly hate themselves.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at October 20, 2006 4:17 PM

Okay France and the rest of Europe this is what yo must do: treat islam as you would nazism party memebers. If you are a muslim you have to LEAVE Europe. Create a WAR MEASURES ACT and give muslims 3 years to leave (they can be welcome to liquate and collect their assets--which is alot more than we did for the 3rd generation japanese americans who weren't even traitors!). Does this sound harsh? Ali Sina doesn't think so. I recall reading that he asked that muslims not be allowed to be in West. Even "moderates" will have kids who will read the Qur'an and then its a toss up if they "go jihad" on the kaafir around them. Thats the problem. If I had a 'bible' that was basically the equivalent of Mein Kempf in Arabic and allowed my kids to read it --could I honestly say they might NOT start to obey it properly (ie so they can gain paradise)? Of course not. The west doesnt have to be mean about it. You could even trade muslims for all those persecuted christians living in Syria, Iran, etc like Turkey did with Greece in the great mass migration trades in the early part of the 20th century.
After reading Robert Spencer's books its impossible to see it anyother way. They are not going to 'leave' their religion. The Europeans can start to insist that non muslims in Islamic countries be treated the same way as muslims are in the West and when Islamic countries reject that
(I am sure they'll riot, kill a few more peaceful nuns, rape some innocent non muslims girls, generally foam at the mouth etc etc after that request) they'll calm down and the West could say. Okay folks theres the door. Out. Everybody is welcome and of any race but we do not let Nazis and Islamists in our countries.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at October 20, 2006 5:36 PM

pardon my spelling!

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at October 20, 2006 5:37 PM

Gallic intifada
By Arnaud de Borchgrave
October 16, 2006

http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20061015-103453-5327r.htm

BRUSSELS.
Turf-conscious bloggers in Paris' rundown, mostly Muslim, suburban immigrant housing estates rival in violent messages threatening to beat senseless and even kill any intruder caught in "our ghetto." Almost every word is misspelled, in both argot slang and pidgin French. These are not empty threats. An average of 14 policemen a day are injured in bloody clashes with jobless youths.
France's Interior Ministry said 2,500 police officers had been "wounded" this year. The head of the hard-line trade union "Action Police" Michel Thooris wrote to Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy to describe conditions in housing developments turned slums as "intifada." Police cruisers are pelted daily with stones and "Molotov cocktails" (gasoline-filled bottles with burning wicks that explode on impact) and Mr. Thooris said cops assigned to what was rapidly degenerating into "free fire zones" should be protected in armored vehicles. Entire tall buildings empty into the streets to chase police and free an arrested comrade.
"We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists," Mr. Thooris told journalists. Mr. Sarkozy, the leading center-right candidate for next year's presidential election, responded by dispatching cops in body armor, equipped with automatic weapons and rubber bullets, stun and teargas grenades into several Paris suburbs with orders to "restore control" from "organized crime." In one recent clash 250 cops dispersed a 100-strong Muslim gang armed with baseball bats.
The chaotic conditions in suburbs like Clichy-sous-Bois, Montfermeil and St. Denis have progressively worsened since the nationwide Muslim riots last November that torched 10,000 vehicles.

Posted by: schutzhund at October 21, 2006 1:06 PM

Hi Americaningermany. Thanks I can see from your other posts you agree because you (like Robbert Spencer have your eyes wide open). And you are right of course, this type of thing will not happen soon. Like in WWII there are too many wartime appeasers around. There was in England Chamberlin who came back with a stupid piece of paper in his hands signed by Hitler and proclaimed, "peace in our time!" Of course we know how that turend out, and Hitler was laughing his ass off and then went ahead with his plans anyway. (And as you know Robert Spencer can you quotes from Islamic scriptures that says its okay to lie to unbelivers and/or make false treaties with them like Muhammed did , and which Arafat did with Israel after he signed a peace treaty with them and quickly scurried back to a mosque and defended his actions to his fellow muslims by pointing to that example of Muhammed and saying basically the treaty changed nothing!) But I digress...
I think what I said earlier cannot happen right away but I want to keep putting it out there and hopefully others (like Ali Sina also) will keep promoting it (without hate of course, just in a rational calm way because we know we have the truth on our side!) until (and I hate to say it) something even bigger than 9/11 will happen. I do not think I am giving any ideas to terrorists outthere since I know for a fact they have already talked about this: Here in Toronto they (regular muslims born and raised here no criminal records!) tried to set up several bombs in key areas of the city but the Mounties got to them first (they are in the court system now) but if they HAD accomplished it or did something even worse like a suticase nuclear bomb in DC or in Paris. I can honestly think that the West will go to the "extreme" of saying: "alright OUT ...NOW" The Chamberlins will be swept away by the Churchills. Many people think that America and Canada had to be essentially racist to round up the japanese citizens (just in case) in WW II and put them in holding areas (and these were farms not torture camps or anything like that!) Yes they were racists to some point since the vast majority of Japanese were loyal to their new country but what made the final determination according to some old vets I spoke to over the years is FEAR! I am shaking my head now because I know this is going to sound terrible. But if a suitcase nuke went off in a major European and US city (say London and DC and Paris and Berlin) can you imagine the West NOT telling them to get out? I think there would be such a whining outcry from our liberal Chamberlin like friends you could hear it coast to coast. Rabid braless feminists, vegetarian new age worshipping hippie types lying down on the street in front of the ships ready to take our muslim friends to Saudi Arabia (I hear its fairly empty )
or Egypt..but it would HAPPEN. At great cost but it would. Now I know some out there wouldnt agree with me and thats fine (we are all freedom lovin' westerners here we like open discussions and freedome of speech is allowed!) but I think I am right. I think that it could happen but only after acts of such evil, such pure unadulterated eye-opeing hate that the nations would have to stand up and say as to the rest of the muslims (the 'moderates') they did in that French airport
"okay we know you didnt blow up paris and DC etc but because of possible terrorist support now or in the future known or secret you must leave. And please do not talk to us of 'tolerance' our beautiful city of love is a smoking radioactive ember--get out NOW."
I could see that happening. I think the "liberals" among us who control the UN and seem to permanently have their heads up their asses (only a liberal can bend that much to perform such a feat) are outnumbered by the greater number of "liberals ....to a point". These are not conservatives or God fearing Republicans, no they are liberals but deep down inside they are not so far gone soo hateful of their countries and what they have in America and the west that even they would say "uh yeah okay ..lets do this thing".
The question for me is can this mass migration happen without a nuclear occurence, that is, without an even of such destruction that Europe would be shaken up to its old WWII type of mentality (ie "THE ALLIES SHALL WIN" thinking). I think that unless something like that kind of event occurs it will be near impossible to get them out! In the meantime people like Robert Spencer keeping throwing out the truth out there, waking up more and more people thru his patient and impeccable scholarship and his professional and loving attitude so that maybe we can fight the threat without something bad like that happening first, by waking up enough people to keep the threat in check if not flushed out. I say his method is 'loving' because he is showing a great kindness to muslims out there by giving them a chance to save their souls so to speak. Trust me I know people especially nominal muslims (not to be confused with 'moderate' practicing muslims) are listening and even changing. He is giving them a chance to wake up before a big very evil string of (nuclear) events occur and we just forceibly kick them all out. He is as the apostle Paul called the Christians 'the salt of the earth' --his actions books, talks etc are acting like salt to prevent the meat of public opinion from rotting (becoming past the point of no return liberal) and we all know it.
Yes I think it takes a leap of faith to say that after a string of nuclear suitcase attacks , muslims will be simply banished but honestly I do not think its a big leap.

I have implied that Islam is like Nazism --I don't think that is far enough:

I am saying we have to keep trying because Islam is not like Nazism--its far worse:
AmericaninGermany one of my favorite high school teachers was a German whose brother was a Nazi soldier in WWII. Like many soldiers they had no choice but to be "Nazis" but after WWII many threw away their swatzikas in disgust and Germany quickly rose up back to its civilized and democratic roots. Germans after all, are really domocratic loving Lutherans and Catholics deep down in their hearts (even the agnostics)in a manner of speaking (its their background and histroy so it can't help but come out) just like many Americans believe in the Golden Rule (even if they are not explicitly Christian) they have inherited that Christian viewpoint of civilization ( treat others as you want to treat them, love your family, help the poor --these are all Christian ideals surely not pagan ones! ) so it was only a matter of time before the Germans were brought under the fold of the ALLIES where they (like the Italians and other westerners) belong. Germany today hates Nazism and suppresses any idiots who try to bring it back. Its shown that (and Im sure I do not have to tell you living in German that!) but the muslims do not of course, have that. We cannot salvage Islam because there is nothing to salvage. Nazism was discarded and Germany and Germans proudly remain (good on them as my Aussie friends say) but you cannot take the muslim away from Islam --for he is Islam, nothing is left to take its place. Nazism was an addition (an immoral and unworthy of the German people though it was) to the German identity that could be wiped out (and was), but Islam is not an addition to the Muslim--it is the muslim. Very few practicing "moderate" muslims will leave their faith and be "just arabs" or "just persians" because Islam has been ingrained for so long in THEIR history (unlike Nazism in the German psyche) that they have no identity without it. Unlike Christian arabs, the muslim arabs hate anything pre-Islamic (I recall the famous story of why the sphinx in Egypt had its nose shot off --a muslim with a canon was irrated at this idolatry that continues to exist in a muslim land). Yes they have their museums and such but they do not proudly (like we Greeks for instanceor the Germans or Italians or Brits) say "we were a great race before Islam too. Its not common at all because non islamic culture is haram not 'halel'. An Italian can be proud of his history (rome ) even as a Christian --he can be proud of it APART from any relgious view. Same with Americans and Germans and so forth. Arabs simply cannot--because of Islam. We just had a few on the Michael Coren show here in Toronto a few days ago. And the Muslim guests wanted to (wrongly) say how Islam basically "built the west" everything from democracy (as a Greek I found that endlessly amusing) to hospitals to science and medicince!" Coren was laughing of course, and then attacked Islams historic "gifts" to the West (other than a few philosophers who were not well liked in their time everything muslim countries got was from the west). But I noticed and keep noticing that many do not say "oh I am a Persian and you know we had the Hammurabi code of conduct before Islam and I am proud AS A PERSIAN for that..." (unlike Ali Sina who is proud of his persian background). They do not say that because their identity is pure Islam. Islam unlike Christianity and Judasm (and basically another religion) does not allow for that kind of pride. All price, all boasting, all learnign and honor is to be given to Islam and 'allah'. This is not some strange extremist muslim attitude its very common amoung "moderate" muslims. The muslim mind is incapable of "giving it a rest" as my younger cousins like to say, that is it is incapable of being in the secular world AT ALL. The first thing we learned at the University of Toronto course "Modern Middle Eastern History" is "ISLAM IS A NATION" thats a quote. Christianity is not a "nation" you can be a proud American or Russian or what have you apart from your religion. You can relish in your ancient brave pagan viking forfathers if you are a Dane without it occuring to your modern Dutch Reformed Mind that you are haram in doing it! My point is Islam wipes clean all other loyalties to history to race to culture to anything but "Allah and his prophet muhammed". I found muslims to be proud of this (if they are being honest) and point out my own love for Canada as inferior because it doesnt measure up to my Christian ideals (therefore Christianity is inferior therefore Islam is better etc etc). Allah Ackbar for example does not mean only "God is great" but "God is greatER (than your gods whatever they may be)"

So Islam is a nation and gives a national identity whereas Americans and Europeans and other Westerners can be Christian but their christianity is does not overtake their love for freedom and their countries-- it informs it. very different action indeed. You can have a national identity apart from any religion as an American or Brit etc but not as a Muslim (again if youare being an honest muslim!) When they took polls recently most muslims say they want sharia law or some form of it. Would your typical Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or Protestant want the Church to run the country? of course not. Even the most fundamentalist Southern Baptist doesnt want his CHRUCH to run the US though he wants to make sure it has laws against abortion, gay marriage etc --but thats NOT the same thing according to everything Ive learned.seperation between church and state was a conservative protestant idea not a secular humanist one (as our liberal friends like to forget!)

Islamic Sharia is not just a bunch of laws but has in it the skeleton for an Islamic NATIONHOOD that reinterprets history (ie the Nazis replaced scholars in German universities especially historians so that Nazis 'scholars' could teach a totally revised history of the world). Islam REPLACES or represses honest scholarship to the point that like the Nazis you have to learn certain "truths" in a university if its in a muslim country to protect the "purity" of Islam's history.. I do not think in Egyptian universities they say that pre Islamic man was as kindly as advanced as the muslims are "now". But a good catholic scholar at the Unversity of Toronto (I was at St Mikes which is the Catholic college federated with the other ones that make up U of T) can admire even praise ancient european PAGAN civilizations (ie countries without Christ!) because he sees thier genius for what it is (and is not scared that it will take away from Christianity!) But a muslim cannot (and will not) do that he rewrites history to claim it was all "Islam" (Adam was the first muslim to them!) Any great thinker was a muslim really (they have all these speeches great pagans were supposed to have uttered on their deathbeds praising 'Allah') --I cannot even imagine the most conservative Catholic saying Aristotle was really a roman catholic who prayed the rosary on his deathbed being divinely led to do it thousands of years before such things were even known! So Islam is a nation and a particular kind of nation that needs to reinterpret everything in its light.

I apologize if I rambled on and on forgive me. But I am so glad to live in the West. We really do have to kick them out. God I hope we do before its too late. (persians, arabs etc if you are not muslim you are WELCOME in the west --this is NOT about race! )

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at October 21, 2006 1:10 PM

Maaaaan I can be longwinded huh. sorry folks if Ive bored anyone!

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at October 21, 2006 1:11 PM