If the politicians do the same things over and over again and get the same result, are they insane or that is their intention? The politicians in Europe do the same thing cross country and over time. The US politicians do as well.

This extends across parties to a large extent in Europe and the US. So this type of conflict is what they want. So does the MSM which celebrates diversity. Diversity creates distrust according to a Harvard study by Putnam.

In a land of distrust, politicians take all they can? In a land of trust and harmony, politicians don't?

Distrust becomes a drug that the politicians feed on? It gives them loyal followers no matter what they steal? They can even let child exploitation go on around them and get away with it?

With distrust, each group protects its politicians, no matter what else they do, even when they know it. This is seen where politicians who have got into trouble are re-elected by their districts.

Gerrymandering in the US distributes politicians according to their own ethnic and other groups so that they are re-elected regardless of what information comes out about them, with a few exceptions.

Posted by: Old Atlantic at October 23, 2006 9:17 AM

It is high time that the French equivalent of the Natinal Guard - or the French army - be called in. It is obvious that the police are incapable of handling this!!

Posted by: TeachESL at October 23, 2006 9:32 AM

It will take the deluge to wash clean the streets of France. History indeed repeats. We will have to endure a cathartic event in one of the occupied EU countries before we can regress to the mean once again.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at October 23, 2006 9:40 AM

OT:

The talk radio program on Cincinnat WLW 700 (Mike McConnell show) has been promoting Robert Spencer's upcoming interview all weekend and again this morning. I'm looking forward to hearing the interview.

Posted by: omvi at October 23, 2006 9:49 AM

Do French cops carry guns? Cripes, imagine if a bunch of maniacs tried to attacks cops in the U.S. with rocks. It would be a massacre.

Posted by: ryoga at October 23, 2006 9:53 AM

This is one of the strangest things I've seen anywhere. The "youths" listen to loud, American, gangsta rap music. Have the gold teeth thing, wear gold chains, and dress in the baggy pants. Obviously influenced by the trash American television pumps out.

But at the same time, they are increasingly embracing radical Islam preached by various Imams. It is a mixture that stunned me when I first saw it. I look for things to get much worse in France.

Posted by: Joseph at October 23, 2006 9:53 AM

Where is there back up??? Where is the swat team??? They have radios don't they? I want to hear the rest of the story on how these punks are put down.

Posted by: BIRDDDOG at October 23, 2006 9:54 AM

"Taking on an Islamic fundamentalist tinge? When did it not have this?"

When it became completely untenable to deny it, potentially subjecting the denier to ridicule.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at October 23, 2006 10:01 AM

In France today military service consists in showing up for one day. One day. Even before that, "military service" usually meant something quite different from what that phrase means in the United States.

In the countries of Western Europe, there is great fear felt by non-Muslims -- physical fear -- but no attempt to train the European young.

Were they so trained, trained in the use of weapons, in other forms of combat, gotten used to military discipline, and ready the way Israel's citizen-army is ready, that would do much to change the situation both practically, and pschologically. Compare American men who have gone through Fort Jackson or Fort Bragg with those who have not. Compare those who have not done so with the regular army, but with others like them in the Reserves. The knowledge acquired, the attitudes that go with that knowledge (and of course the experience that those who served in Iraq have acquired of Muslim societies and peoples), makes those who serve in the military, in the regular or the citizen-army, a powerful and stiffening influence.

No country in Western Europe has a citizen-army. No country in Western Europe even teaches the masses of young men, many of whom might grumble but in the end realize with alarm and determination the need, to study not all the arts of war, but enough so that, when confronted by Muslim uprisings in banlieues or elsewhere, they will have acquired the physical training, and just as important, the mental attitudes, necessary to defend what, so far, all of these countries have left up to a paid handful -- the police, the professional army, the assorted secret services. That will not be enough. This requires participation by the entire society, and for its own survival.

Posted by: Hugh at October 23, 2006 10:06 AM

I wouldn't think that your average person in Finland who has completed military service is any better equipped to deal with an intifada than someone who lacks military service, unless he had a gun. If it comes down to hand to hand combat, those with training will do better than others, and you won't get the training through military service (attaining an effective level of ability requires years or intense training and repetition). So really, I'm not sure what kind of a benefit military service would provide. Even if every citizen had six to twelve months of training, it's highly unlikely that they'd decide to take the law into their own hands.

French police officers presumably have weapons and the training to use them, and even when people are trying to kill them, they won't use them.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at October 23, 2006 10:17 AM

If its rioting you are into...

Keep your eyes on the United Kingdom, its simmering as you could say...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5401490.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/5165676.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6076074.stm

All its going to take is one more atrocity on UK soil...the riots of 5 years ago will be nothing in comparison.

Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at October 23, 2006 10:56 AM

Until someone like Le Pen takes power, nothing will be done. And i'm afraid that West Europeans would rather live under sharia than be politically incorrect.

Unfortunately, only parties like BNP in the UK or Le Pen's in France have the political will to do something about the Islamic threat. Yes, they are fascist, and that's a problem. But extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

Posted by: george_rem at October 23, 2006 11:15 AM

France out of France!

Is there a web site where we can donate money to these brave freedom fighters? They are obviously rising up against the violently oppressive and evil french regime that tries to deny these youths their rightful place in french society.

France = Terrorist
Behead France!

Posted by: mtriviso at October 23, 2006 11:39 AM

Isnt it ironic? The French were the biggest champions of Arafat and the Palestinian Intifada. Now they're getting a taste of the Intifada and suddenly they dont like it anymore. Priceless.

Posted by: george_rem at October 23, 2006 11:46 AM

OT:

I'm listening to Robert Spencer's interview on WLW 700 Cincinnati even as I write this.

The first caller attempted to challenge RS by trying to change the subject under discussion from "little mohammed" to the sins of the Christianity, the USA and Israel. RS would have none of it, refused to take the bait, and just kicked intellectual booty. Very effectively, very politely, and with cogent argument.

In the "after life" if there is a such a thing as Debater's Paradise, RS has already earned his 72 copies of Roget's Thesaurus.

Well done RS. I only wish you had been allotted an entire hour. Make that two hours. I attempted to call the McConnell program to serve you a softball but wasn't able to get through.

(PS. When HF learns to write the way RS speaks he'll be far more effective on this board and in the War).

Posted by: omvi at October 23, 2006 11:48 AM

Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at October 23, 2006
10:56 AM
If its rioting you are into...
Keep your eyes on the United Kingdom, its simmering as you could say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6076884.stm

Correct Tommy , this story doesn`t receive much
publicity in England ,the BBC being too concerned
about poor oppressed and offended minorities.

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at October 23, 2006 11:59 AM

The French police should have cracked the heads of these yoots last year-maybe there would be less yoots doing this sort of thing this year.

The Vichy era is looking better and better-at least there was a resistance to the enemy in those days!

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 23, 2006 12:04 PM

Not being in the Armed Services never disqualified anyone in the UK from being in a fight. Visitors to Britain, I dare you to go to the town centre of ANY town in the country on a Friday or Saturday night. You will see the underclass, the working class, and the middle class (by God, even the Upper Class - remember Prince Harry recently!) happily kicking the crap out of one another. All ages, all sexes. Lots of people fighting. Glassing each other. Throwing big sticks at each other. I've even seen some biffers set their dogs on their opponents.

In my drinking career, I myself was attacked on more than one occasion. You try to give as good as you get, but I was always too drunk to really hurt anyone. It's a good job that my head is made of concrete.

I tend to agree with the saying that Britain is a warrior nation. Fighting is in the DNA. I cannot tell whether this will ever be targeted towards one particular section of the community or not. That's the beauty of living through English History. I dare say if push comes to shove, there might be a bit of fighting.

Posted by: FREE LEE at October 23, 2006 12:14 PM

What this history comes down to, again, is that we still don't know how many french are required to defend Paris. It has still not been attempted. Maybe they'll come down to it this time.

Posted by: Marvin at October 23, 2006 12:16 PM

Of course that should be British History, not just English. Especially as I've heard some really shocking accounts of Glasgow on a weekend.

Posted by: FREE LEE at October 23, 2006 12:21 PM

The Paris police went on a rampage in 1961 and killed an estimated 200 Muslims, under the direction of their chief of police it would appear. I was always struck by the fact that the gendarmes, at least when they were on the left bank, carried sub-machine guns rather than handguns. The CRS (specialist French riot police) had a reputation for brutality unique in western Europe. Having to put up with this nonsense from the Arab kids in the bainlieus must really having them grinding their teeth.

Posted by: wallyUK at October 23, 2006 12:22 PM

From the article

Rumors have flown around some housing projects that police are hoping to use the Muslim holy month of Ramadan [...] to round up known troublemakers, on the basis that fasting all day will have made the youths weaker and easier to catch. Police say that suggestion is ludicrous.

Unfortunately, it is ludicrous that the police would actually think along those lines. Look for weakness in your opponent and exploit it? Of course not! Yet that is exactly the sort of mindset we need to gain.

The youths are trying to cause a police error to justify chaos.

That's odd. The national secretary of the Alliance police union thinks that it would be an "error" for the police to defend themselves. It's hard to imagine how ANY action taken in self-defense while under attack in a "military-style operation" could be described as an "error", but there it is.

And why does he think the jihadists need an excuse to "justify chaos"? They are already creating chaos, hence the article. The justification was given almost 1400 years ago. Don't be nervous, Mssr. head of the police union, just do what needs to be done and be done with it.

Posted by: special_guest at October 23, 2006 12:47 PM

Notice everyone that France's being anti-Semitic and anti-American hasn't done it an iota of good. Not even one.

All that is requred for ANYONE to be on the receiving end of Islamic-inspired violence is to not be a Muslim. The French qualify; their upping the terrorism alert from "run" to "hide" won't save theirs either, alas.

Now if only the world's political leaders could figure that out. I guess, it's a--

lesson to be learned in the 'Twilight Zone'.

Posted by: pythagoras at October 23, 2006 1:06 PM

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. These heroic young men fighting against institutionalized racism are every bit as heroic as the French resitance taking on the Nazi occupation.

(Just kidding :-) ), but those muliticultural idiots on the Left need some excuse.

Posted by: Celsius at October 23, 2006 1:23 PM

Larger, more mainstream police unions sharply disagree that the suburban unrest has any religious basis. However, they do say that some youth gangs no longer seem content to throw stones or torch cars and instead appear determined to hurt police officers — or worse.

"First, it was a rock here or there. Then it was rocks by the dozen. Now, they're leading operations of an almost military sort to trap us," said Loic Lecouplier, a police union official in the Seine-Saint-Denis region north of Paris. "These are acts of war."

Roll out the tanks. Deport those who engage in this stuff.

Il n'est pas trop tard mais SVP faits vite, Français!

VIVE LA RESISTANCE!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 1:29 PM

Why don't the police just shoot them. I thought they had guns in France. Maybe I'm wrong. If you shoot them, they won't do it again. It's very simple. For anyone in the UK, Channel 4 is showing a Dispatches debate called "Muslims and free speech" at 8:00pm, I'm hoping I won't be let down. Channel 4 is usually quite good about these things, unlike the BBC.

Posted by: calum at October 23, 2006 1:44 PM

Hugh said: No country in Western Europe has a citizen-army.

Sorry Hugh, Switzerand does have a citizen army. We even have our military rifles and pistols at home, with uniform and ammunition.

Posted by: Swissy at October 23, 2006 1:57 PM

No country in Western Europe has a citizen-army. No country in Western Europe even teaches the masses of young men, many of whom might grumble but in the end realize with alarm and determination the need, to study not all the arts of war, but enough so that, when confronted by Muslim uprisings in banlieues or elsewhere, they will have acquired the physical training, and just as important, the mental attitudes, necessary to defend what, so far, all of these countries have left up to a paid handful -- the police, the professional army, the assorted secret services. That will not be enough. This requires participation by the entire society, and for its own survival.
Posted by: Hugh

Untying their hands might do the trick, Hugh. I do agree we all need to start learning a bit of the old Krav Manga.

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 2:00 PM

The Germans are required to spend time in the military. It used to be that two years were mandatory, but today I believe it's even less than that.

Last I heard it was 18 months. I myself was quite deluded in my youth and found a way out of service. Noone believed GHermany would ever again be in a position or situation to be involved in armed conflict. Thought islamofascism was just beginning to rear its ugly head.. it was usually confined to the ME and Israel at the time.

Of course, one can get out of going to military duty if one takes on a civil duty, like driving a bus for the handicapped.

germaninamerica would know the details of all this better than I do.

Or with a sports injury. Religious things may also work.

Even those I have talked to who spent time in the military said they learned practically nothing and said that their military was a joke.

That would confirm what I heard.

I think most just assume that they will most likely never have to fight, anyone, anywhere, and especially not in their own cities.

I think they basically believe that with the introduction of the EU there will never again be a war of any kind on European soil.

Not anymore. And not by our choice. Our WASCHLAPPEN leaders.. lumpen leaders.. have brought onb this volatile situation and it's fast getting worse whilst they merrily carry on.

Most of us are unarmed. It's not so simple to just go and buy weapons here like it is in the United States.

germaninamerica: If you're reading this, can you tell us just what the requirements are when purchasing a weapon in Germany? I've never inquired about it really, but have heard that you have to belong to an organization, etc...

If I were there today I'd hook up with some Serbs.. they'd have access to what is needed. And I'd see about training with them in Serbia instead of going on holiday like the rest of the Euros do. They had things right and Clinton stabbed them in the back while Al Quaeda was happily bombing our Marines and our Sailors and our Embassies as well.

Makes one wonder what the HELL IS GOING ON!!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 2:08 PM

From an earlier post:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5401490.stm

After the meeting, council chief executive Jim Carr read out a short statement which blamed the trouble on a "minority of criminals".

He said: "Following the recent incidents in the Avenham area of the city, instigated by a small minority of individuals linked to criminal activity, we the wider community of Preston resolve to work closely together to tackle those individuals and make Avenham safe."

Lancashire Police said bricks and concrete blocks were thrown at cars of people attending the Jamia Masjid mosque on Clarendon Street Sunday night.

Yes a tiny minority.. But I can guarantee you the MAJORITY **sympathizes** with them.. just like the majority of the mobots sympathize with their terrorists. The fronts are beginning to harden and crystalize.. The tiny minority will soon be HUGE MAJORITY.

Go England!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 2:16 PM

"The youths are trying to cause a police error to justify chaos."

Better error than terror.

Posted by: remote_control at October 23, 2006 2:39 PM

Until someone like Le Pen takes power, nothing will be done. And i'm afraid that West Europeans would rather live under sharia than be politically incorrect.

Unfortunately, only parties like BNP in the UK or Le Pen's in France have the political will to do something about the Islamic threat. Yes, they are fascist, and that's a problem. But extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.
Posted by: george_rem

That they are so fascist and so anti-semitic IS a problem. Not only are the Israelis quite valuable allies but most of us don't want to live under fascism any more than under pislam.

Le Pen and the BNP have to make a choice between ousting the muftis from our countries or continuing with their anachronistic anti-semitism.

There is NO Jewish jihad. The choice ought to be easy. Or are these Euro-fascists to namby-pamby to take on a REAL ENEMY? In Europe there is NO Jewish Threat at all.. the few thousand who remain.. And there is no history of violence form them since time immortal. It took the Holocaust for ther Jews to stand up and get their own country and defend it.. and still they have home-grown Liberals undermining themselves. Guys.. the Jews are US!

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 2:42 PM

Until someone like Le Pen takes power, nothing will be done. And i'm afraid that West Europeans would rather live under sharia than be politically incorrect.

Unfortunately, only parties like BNP in the UK or Le Pen's in France have the political will to do something about the Islamic threat. Yes, they are fascist, and that's a problem. But extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

Posted by: george_rem at October 23, 2006 11:15 AM
But extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

Posted by: george_rem at October 23, 2006 11:15 AM

EXACTLY!!!

Posted by: americaningermany at October 23, 2006 11:23 AM

Jeez, fellas, not to disallusion you, but it was only a few months ago that LePen did a 180 and decided that his party should "reach out" to Muslims.

Trusting fascists like the BNP and LePen's org to do anything but the politically expedient would be an extraordinary measure in the sense of being extraordinarily stupid. They hate everyone who isn't one of "them" but only change the focus of their hatred to who they hate the most at the moment.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 23, 2006 2:46 PM

Jeez, fellas, not to disallusion you, but it was only a few months ago that LePen did a 180 and decided that his party should "reach out" to Muslims.

Trusting fascists like the BNP and LePen's org to do anything but the politically expedient would be an extraordinary measure in the sense of being extraordinarily stupid.

I agree, but I can't figure out what to do. here in the US there is something called the United American Committee.

http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/

They're pro-Israel I am glad to say. However we need to vast majority in Europe to follow a similarly sane approach to the future.

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 3:04 PM

Jeez, fellas, not to disallusion you, but it was only a few months ago that LePen did a 180 and decided that his party should "reach out" to Muslims.

I hope that his followers will do a 180 on Le Pen. drop him like a steaming pile of dogsh*t. They need to reach out to moslems with bullets only.

Posted by: germaninamerica at October 23, 2006 3:17 PM

Damned "youths"! Probably college Republicans.

Posted by: DesertDawgN29 at October 23, 2006 3:17 PM

Connecting the dots... It takes 20/20 hindsight, assuming you are not a blind liberal...

Have you noticed that the latest Al-Queda threats before Ramadan talked about the "Caucasian" cells in the US. That an attack was comming durring Ramadan, and for Muslims to 'run for cover'.

Seems that they were refering to the bogus NFL threat. The FBI in typical fashion was tracking 40 postings before they closed in. Guess the press wasn't the only one fooled by this one.

An attack of this scale is beyond Al-Queda's capablity. However there are things they can do in the much more vulnerable Europe.

Protesters have gone from marches to vandalism in recent years. They even publish tactics for dealing with tear gas, and riot police.

Protesters, however, tend to stay on the streets. It is only a matter of time before Islamists modify their tactics and break into buildings and shops along demonstration routes.

Imagine 200,000 marchers through Paris, protesting cartoons, veil issues, or arrest of a radical Imam.

The usual venomous chants and posters (worse than the KKK would even consider) - flag burning, etc. Until the tear gas fills the air. Instead of running - they break into buildings and occupy several city blocks. Furniture used for barricades. Computers as bombs on the heads of police.

It is common for "peace" protests to be infiltrated by dozens of anarchist who break windows and vandalize stores. Imagine tens of thousands of "angry youth" laying siege in the heart of Paris.

Al-Queda has a patern of using our assets against us. Our own rental cars. Our own planes. Our own free speach laws. Our own protections for demonstration.

An event of this nature would serve the terrorist's goals of chaos and destuction. I can only imagine the French response. But we can not afford another "failure of imagination".

Posted by: Agrippa at October 23, 2006 3:34 PM

Being a cop is a great job if you like to jack with people.

Just turn the French cops loose and they will take care of it. The French have Combat Police. They like to crack heads. Its good exercise and beneficial for the country.

They can enjoy the crisp fall air, the beautiful colours of the trees changing from summer to fall, and the red blood flowing in the streets.

Whats not to like?

Posted by: SCV at October 23, 2006 4:39 PM

I thought that Le Pen was siding with the muslims. I read that somewhere in Jihadwatch not so long ago.

The person to vote for is Phillippe de Villiers who is anti-muslim and not a fascist.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 23, 2006 5:00 PM

The BNP may be anti-semetic, but who should care about anti-semetism, when there are so few Jews in England and so many bloody muslims?

The Jews should be on the forefront of this fight in the west, and yet we see that they are not. Where are the Jewish organizations on this issue, the Anti Defamation League, the World Jewish Congress, The Jewish Defence League, and a myriad of other influential groups in all western nations? Have they demonstrated against the muslim radicals? Have they spoken up? Have they sued? No.

Where are the Jewish gangs fighting with muslim gangs? Where are all the Jewish lawyers fighting CAIR and the other islamic organizations that seek to wipe the Jews off the earth? Nowhere. They are all at the ACLU.

Where are the Jewish celebrities on this issue? Are they pro-Israel or anti-Israel? Do we need even to answer that? Where are the Jewish comedians mocking islam? Nowhere. Jon Stewart, what is his contribution to the fight against islam, from his comedic bully pulpit on the Comedy Network? Do we need to answer that?

Groups like the BNP may not be perfect, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, when there are no better alternatives, anti-semetic or not, and the threat we face is imperils the planet.

Posted by: August22 at October 23, 2006 5:24 PM

"The person to vote for is Phillippe de Villiers..."
-- from a posting above

Yes. Though apparently P. de V. has no chance, he deserves to be strengthened. If, however, it turns out that Segolene Royal is weaker on the matter -- her party is, but is she? i don't know enough about her -- than Sarkozy, then perhaps he, Sarkozy, has to be voted for. But he sometimes says things that do not make sense if, indeed, he grasps the nature, scope, and full menace of the tenets, and attitudes, of Islam.

Posted by: Hugh at October 23, 2006 5:35 PM

Although it is not PC to admit this, once the French were warriors. I can only hope at least one real Frenchman remains and can find something in France worthy of protection.

Posted by: Ronin at October 23, 2006 5:44 PM

August22

The Jews do not go out and fight the muslims because they are all too aware of anti-semitism that has covered Europe for 2000 years. And still is.They would then cop all the blame.
They always had such little support - history speaks for it self.

And they are busy enough protecting that little strip of land called "Israel".

As for the Jewish Hollywood elite I am disappointed in them. They obviously have had things too good in the USA.

After watching "Munich" I was disappointed. It was another idiotic attempt at moral equivalence.
Speilberg is no longer on my "persons I would like to meet" list!!

Posted by: Gramfan at October 23, 2006 5:53 PM

Free Lee, I agree with what you posted above about the British. My boyfriend is English and quite often he and his brother get to drinking, which leads to sparing, (all in good fun) and consequently sometimes someone gets hurt. my guys brother had keiths (my guy) hands pulled behind his back. Keith lost his ballance, couldn't catch himself, fell on his head onto the concrete, got up, took the tuft of hair that was srapped off and through it in the fire. His brother said he could feel the ground vibrate. He is the most thick headed man I know, literally and figuratively. Anyway the French need to get thick sculled, among other things.

Posted by: mustang65 at October 23, 2006 6:17 PM

August 22
Gramfan

Many people of Jewish heritage in the U.S. are liberals- consequently, they share many of the same attitudes as other liberals in the U.S.

Posted by: s at October 23, 2006 6:43 PM

Something tells me that vets of the French Resistance are probably ashamed of their country over this insanity. I know I would be.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 23, 2006 7:17 PM

August 22:
Ever heard of Alan Dershowitz? How about Daniel Pipes? Melanie Phillips? Mark Steyn? All Jewish.

The David Project in Boston (a Jewish group) is involved in a legal battle with the local Islamic Society over terrorist links of its leadership, and Saudi funding for a huge mosque that the Society plans for West Roxbury.

Jewish groups have been in the forefront of action to bring the Islamic government of Sudan to account for its persecution of black African tribes in Darfur.

Last but by no means least, the state of Israel has done (and is doing) more than the rest of the West combined to fight Islamic fascism.

Your ignorant rantings disgust me.

Posted by: materialguy at October 23, 2006 8:05 PM

Gramfam, for Jews, as semites, it is more politically correct for them to fight muslims, than Christians. The Jews don't fight because they don't fight. The Jews in the west, aside from sending money to Israel in the form of bonds, which is good, do nothing here to stand up to the menace that is islam. Why not?

There has always been a strong nexus between the Left and modern Jewish thought. Indeed, just as there is a nexus between Marxism and islam, there is also one between Marxism and Judiasm. They make strange bedfellows, but it is an historic connection.

Traditionally, Jews overwhelmingly vote as a block for liberal parties, and the Democrats in the US specifically, regardless of how pro-Israel the GOP may be and how anti-Israel the democracts may be, or whatever their tax bracket. You know the old saw, "They earn like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans."

Why?

I could right a thesis on that topic. Many already have and most of those have been Jewish, and for the most part, I agree with their thesis. I won't go into into in detail. Suffice it to say, that Jews, were persecuted in the West historically for centuries and have a strong sense of social justice as a result. They feel drawn to whatever can be seen as the underdog. So they gravitated towards the Left in the middle of the 19th century, when the Left was born in the beginning of the Industrial Revolution as a voice for the People against the ruling classes, as a perceived shelter into the ideological arms of pacifism, anti-militarism, civil rights, socialism, and even communism.

Time have changed. The underdogs have changed. The issues of our times have changed. Unfortunately, that effect is still with them as a people. Jewish intellectuals and organizations, therefore, being on the Left, behave with the Left, and will not consequently, come to the defense of the West, even against Islam, for their loyalty rides with the Left, more so than with their own adoptive nation, or even with Israel or th Jewish people as a whole.

The pillars of the Left have been Jews. Remember that Marx and Engels, the founders of Communism were Jews, most of the directors of the ACLU were Jews, the founders of the modern feminist movement were Jews, Jews have played instrumental roles the trade union movements, virtually all the founders of socialist movements around the world have been Jews. Even Albert Einstein, unbekwonst to most people, was very far Left politically. He as a self-confessed socialist. Indeed, most of the Jewish nuclear scientists resented working on the bomb as a weapon after Nazi Germany was defeated. They weren't working for America, they were working only against the right-wing Nazi government.

Speaking of nuclear scientits, virtually all the cold war American scientists who sold Russia nuclear secrets were Jewish. All were members of ideological Left wing, or outright communist organizations, even though they were Americans and had no cultural connection to the Soviet Union, or sympathy for Stalin.

Considering that Jews represent, at best, 3% of the total population, their overwhelming constituency in the Left, is an astounding fact.

This is why you do not see Jewish organizations, which are normally quite feisty activist groups, say squat about islam in the west, the threat it presents, or even direct attacks on synagogues or Jews in general. You won't see it. Remember the recent attack in Seattle? Not a peep from the Jewish organizations about an anti-semetic attack.

Of all the people that are threatened by islam, the Jews are threatened the most. Yet, in the West, they are silent. It is deafening to my ears.

The only Jews that are involved in this fight are ones that are conservative like Michael Savage.

So, I say, why should we care about the anti-semetism of a group like the BNP in England when it seems that the Jews themselves have not joined this fight to protect the West?

Posted by: August22 at October 23, 2006 8:07 PM

August22
Material Guy makes some very good points however as far as I know Daniel Pipes has never denied/confirmed whether he is Jewish or not.

True a lot of Jewish people aided the left ideology like Marx etc etc. But that has nothing to do with being Jewish - just a socialist theory, whatever.Probably they wanted a non-religious state as this would maybe have lead to no anti-semitism,,just a guess from me.

And we can see now they obviously had no clue as we can now see what a failure communism and socialism were.

I know many Jews who are not left wingers, especially here in Australia. The left here is no friend to the Jewish community any longer although it was before Israel became a "pariah state" to the left who now support islam and palestine.

I truly wish you wouldn't expect Jews from Europe ,,whatever is left of them,,to take on the muslims. They have been "taking on" everyone throughout history and I am sure they know they have no friends anywhere in the world other than themselves.I thought the US was the only good ally, but then look at Condi Rice's efforts and you have hamas elected!

They are damned if they do,,and damned if they don't and I am guessing they are sick of this!
In fact you sound as if you are blaming them for something????

No, this time trust in non-Jews needs to be re-established and this won't be easy.

I am, however, pretty certain that any good stuff Mossad comes up with will be shared.

I think you should vote for whoever you think will do the best job. I will do the same.
I don't know a lot about the BNP.

What will happen is simple. Either all of us unite, or the muslims will win and to me , sadly, they have a lot going for them: unity for starters.

Posted by: Gramfan at October 23, 2006 9:43 PM

August 22 good post. Jews have internalized the dhimmi status. This is not to say Christians and Hindus, and Buddhists(soon to be only known in America) haven't done the same. But the Israelis learned to fight, they found the will.

I read the links above and some others about the attacks in Britain, then wrote this:

To the British, On Second Thought, To Us All

Masters and slaves don’t debate.

In this game,
islam wants to be the master
for mohammed/allah told the believers
they were the best of all peoples,
they must follow the rules of their book
and that they must bring all the world
into submission, by hook or by crook.

Britain,
only civilized humans can join
to form a mutual social contract,
so why do you ask these primitives,
these tribal worshipers of a moon god,
who lust for blood to act civilized?
They live in master/slave consciousness.

Britain,
now you will suffer
for your mistake
until you take
your nation back.
You must attack back.
And rid yourself
of other enemies,
self hatred, relativism
and multiculturalism,
woefully misguided beliefs,
a secular system made sacred.
Wipe the sleep of wrong belief from your eyes,
let go of your utopian dreams, and boldly rise.

Do you really want to live with those
who steal, lie, cheat and murder?
Do you want them to be your masters?
Do you want to be their slaves?

They are your enemy
and want to destroy
your culture, your religion,
your arts and your rights,
take their rich booty, and mold you
into the pattern of the perfect man,
a power hungry pedophile prophet,
whose poisoned believers bring slow death
to a fertile land, making it a desert.
Is this what you want, Britain?
Or will you rise to heroic heights,
defend your land, your life,
your loved ones and fight?

Posted by: the poetess at October 23, 2006 9:46 PM

materialguy,

Steyn is not Jewish. Not that that's an issue for me. Just wanted to correct a common misconception.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 23, 2006 11:12 PM

Gallic intifada
By Arnaud de Borchgrave
October 16, 2006

http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20061015-103453-5327r.htm

BRUSSELS.
Turf-conscious bloggers in Paris' rundown, mostly Muslim, suburban immigrant housing estates rival in violent messages threatening to beat senseless and even kill any intruder caught in "our ghetto." Almost every word is misspelled, in both argot slang and pidgin French. These are not empty threats. An average of 14 policemen a day are injured in bloody clashes with jobless youths.
France's Interior Ministry said 2,500 police officers had been "wounded" this year. The head of the hard-line trade union "Action Police" Michel Thooris wrote to Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy to describe conditions in housing developments turned slums as "intifada." Police cruisers are pelted daily with stones and "Molotov cocktails" (gasoline-filled bottles with burning wicks that explode on impact) and Mr. Thooris said cops assigned to what was rapidly degenerating into "free fire zones" should be protected in armored vehicles. Entire tall buildings empty into the streets to chase police and free an arrested comrade.
"We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists," Mr. Thooris told journalists. Mr. Sarkozy, the leading center-right candidate for next year's presidential election, responded by dispatching cops in body armor, equipped with automatic weapons and rubber bullets, stun and teargas grenades into several Paris suburbs with orders to "restore control" from "organized crime." In one recent clash 250 cops dispersed a 100-strong Muslim gang armed with baseball bats.
The chaotic conditions in suburbs like Clichy-sous-Bois, Montfermeil and St. Denis have progressively worsened since the nationwide Muslim riots last November that torched 10,000 vehicles.

Posted by: schutzhund at October 24, 2006 1:07 AM

How many illiterate teenage muslims w/ sticks and stones does it take to completely subdue a trio of highly trained French police officers? Probably just a couple. I don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this article.

Hopefully next time there will be some American tourists from Texas nearby to rescue the French officers and chase the children away.

Posted by: Tookson at October 24, 2006 1:09 AM

George-Rem: Yes, it is ironic. The crocodile now wants to eat the hand that's been feeding it.

Posted by: texan at October 24, 2006 1:36 AM

August22 said these:

Gramfam, for Jews, as semites, it is more politically correct for them to fight muslims, than Christians.

You think our problem is that we are all White-skin? In that case, we need to get some Black-skin or Asian or even Middle Eastern Christian to defend our political war against Islamism! Are there not 'Semitic' or Oriental Christians like Copts, Melkites, Jacobites and Assyrians? We can encourage Coptic Americans to join our war against Islamic terrorism and fascism.

There has always been a strong nexus between the Left and modern Jewish thought. Indeed, just as there is a nexus between Marxism and islam, there is also one between Marxism and Judiasm. They make strange bedfellows, but it is an historic connection.

You can say also that about the World Council of Churches (WCC) and its U.S. chapter, National Council of Churches (NCC) as both these bodies are hardly Christian but Anti-Semitic Marxist groups.

I could right a thesis on that topic. Many already have and most of those have been Jewish, and for the most part, I agree with their thesis. I won't go into into in detail. Suffice it to say, that Jews, were persecuted in the West historically for centuries and have a strong sense of social justice as a result.

Today, Middle Eastern Christians, such as Copts and Assyrians suffer persecution of various forms of Arabism (Arab nationalim) that is closely related to Islam. As you know the so-called "Arab" world was never Arab but forcefully Arabised via racist taxes Jizyah and Kharaj imposed by Islamic fascists who aim for a Pan-Arab world. Does that sounds like Hitler's Nazism? In Iraq, after Saddam's overthrow, Syriac is one of the 4 official languages of Iraq. The other 3 are Kurdish, Arabic and Turkish.

The pillars of the Left have been Jews. Remember that Marx and Engels, the founders of Communism were Jews, most of the directors of the ACLU were Jews, the founders of the modern feminist movement were Jews, Jews have played instrumental roles the trade union movements, virtually all the founders of socialist movements around the world have been Jews. Even Albert Einstein, unbekwonst to most people, was very far Left politically. He as a self-confessed socialist. Indeed, most of the Jewish nuclear scientists resented working on the bomb as a weapon after Nazi Germany was defeated. They weren't working for America, they were working only against the right-wing Nazi government.

The irreligious Jews work to destroy Christian civilisation and get it conquered by Muslims. Look how the Coptic and the Syriac civilisations were conquered by the Arab Islamic armies and completely Arabised into what is called today 22 "Arab" States. These Christian peoples are descendants of the ancient people who built the pyramids and the great city of Babylon.

Speaking of nuclear scientits, virtually all the cold war American scientists who sold Russia nuclear secrets were Jewish. All were members of ideological Left wing, or outright communist organizations, even though they were Americans and had no cultural connection to the Soviet Union, or sympathy for Stalin.

Bible, especially the book of revelation tells us that there are 2 anti-Christs in the last days, the false prophet (Marxists) and the king (Muslims).

The only Jews that are involved in this fight are ones that are conservative like Michael Savage.

I hope there are more like-minded Jews like him.

So, I say, why should we care about the anti-semetism of a group like the BNP in England when it seems that the Jews themselves have not joined this fight to protect the West?

Certainly, we could vote for BNP as long as its a protest vote. I'm a Black man and while I'm uncomfortable with its White supremacist ideology, I've no choice but to vote for BNP to express my protest to Islamic fascism.

Tell us what do you think? Give your feedback.

Posted by: Gary at October 24, 2006 2:52 AM

"The irreligious Jews work to destroy Christian civilisation and get it conquered by Muslims. Look how the Coptic and the Syriac civilisations were conquered by the Arab Islamic armies and completely Arabised into what is called today 22 "Arab" States. These Christian peoples are descendants of the ancient people who built the pyramids and the great city of Babylon."
posted by Gary

I hope you are referring to people who were born Jewish but became communists.

From all my studying of history I have never come across such a load of rubbish!

Why on earth would Jews prefer muslims to Christians? Ridiculous statement.When were Jews ever powerful enough to overthrow anyone?
Do the math.They have never had the numbers.

Even in reclaiming their biblical home they have granted absolute religious freedom to all, and cared for ALL holy sites and bear in mind Judaism is NOT an evangelical religion.

You sound like one fo those posters who say we should blame Christians for all bad stuff because of the Inquisition and the Hitler's Holocaust.
I don't buy this line - sorry.

And as for Jews being "politically correct" in harming their semitic brethren,,posted above, sorry, I forget who,,,,,also insane!

Why should Jews defened the West? If the West cannot defend itself and relies on the Jews to do it for them then the consequences are dire indeed.
I wish I could say that Israel can deal with the Middle East, but the war in Lebanon proved the opposite. If the French are suffering now,,well they backed the wrong horse.

I will say it again.
If we don't unite we have had it.

Posted by: Gramfan at October 24, 2006 7:44 AM

I think it's a bit unfair to come down so hard on the three cops who were attacked. They were outnumbered 10-to-1. The same thing has happened in Sydney - Muslims are adept at assembling large numbers of comrades quickly, and things can get ugly fast for your average two-man police patrol. If we're talking about an assembled force of riot cops, it's a different story, but show me an Australian neighbourhood that has a large squad of cops in full riot gear waiting for that GO signal. It just doesn't happen.

Blame the neglect of French authorities who steadily surrendered control over the years and are now reaping the benefits.

Posted by: Holy Wart at October 24, 2006 8:51 AM

Gary: Babylon as you may or may not know was the most powerful force in the Middle East's history. However, Christianity came along centuries AFTER the great Babylonian empire had expired and its cultural force had largely dissipated.

Babylonian and Sumerian culture do however live on in ISLAM. Encase you did not know, the Arabian Peninsula was in ancient times a territory of Babylon's. Al-lah, Islam's 'god', is by the way the Mesopotamian moon-god known variously as Ba-al, Marduk, and Sin and is the Mesopotamian moon-god. Note the crescent moon symbol used by Islam and is oft-seen atop mosque spires around the world. There is proof of Babylon's influence in Islam.

Yahweh is not al-lah however, and that proves Christianity and Islam are basically unrelated. Babylon did influence Judaism, but the enmity between Arabs and Jews is probably a result of the cultural differences between a culture that practiced human sacrifice (Babylon) and one that opposed killing except for self-defense (Judeo-Christianism). Judaism and Christianity are a polar opposite of most Babylonian cultural practices.

Who gave you the insane, offbase ideas like the ones you cited?????

Posted by: pythagoras at October 24, 2006 9:05 PM