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At FrontPage this morning I discuss the demand from Afghan jihadists that apostate Abdul Rahman be returned (news links in the original):
An Afghan citizen named Abdul Rahman, you may recall, made international news last spring, when his conversion from Islam to Christianity led to his arrest, with the intention of putting him on trial for apostasy. At that time he was spirited away to safety in Italy. Now jihadists in Afghanistan are demanding his return to Afghanistan in exchange for a kidnapped Italian journalist, Gabriele Torsello. “We want this issue resolved before the end of Ramadan,” his captors demanded, but no resolution seemed imminent as the holy month drew to a close.It is safe to say that if Italian authorities agreed to turn over Abdul Rahman to the kidnappers, the convert would almost certainly be killed for his crime of apostasy from Islam. Yet at the time of Abdul Rahman’s arrest, puzzled Western analysts pointed to what they thought were guarantees of freedom of religion and of conscience in the new Afghan Constitution: after all, didn’t the document pledge “respect” for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Didn’t it say, “followers of other religions” were “free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the provisions of law”?
Indeed it did, but what were the “limits of the provisions of law”? The Constitution itself made the answer abundantly clear: “In Afghanistan,” it stipulated, “no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.” It mandated that the President swear an oath to “obey and safeguard the provisions of the sacred religion of Islam,” and only secondarily “to observe the Constitution and other laws of Afghanistan and supervise their implementation.” What’s more, it stated that “the provisions of adherence to the fundamentals of the sacred religion of Islam and the regime of the Islamic Republic cannot be amended.”Most non-Muslim observers missed the significance of these provisions, and especially the danger they posed to converts like Abdul Rahman and to the freedom of conscience in general. This is understandable, however, since so many Muslims in the West maintained that Islam contained no provision against apostasy. Typical of this was “Leaving Islam is not a capital crime,” a Chicago Tribune article published by M. Cherif Bassiouni, a professor of Law at DePaul University and President of the International Human Rights Law Institute, when Abdul Rahman was arrested. “A Muslim’s conversion to Christianity,” Bassiouni wrote, “is not a crime punishable by death under Islamic law, contrary to the claims in the case of Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan.” Several Muslim spokesmen have insisted the same thing to me in radio debates, excoriating me as “Islamophobic” for pointing out that many Islamic texts do indeed call for apostates to be killed.
Yet the idea that the death penalty for apostasy has always been an element of the “fundamentals of the sacred religion of Islam” is something that some Muslims have made no effort to deny or conceal. IslamOnline, a site manned by a team of Islam scholars headed by the internationally influential Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, explains, “if a sane person who has reached puberty voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be punished. In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (or his representative) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed.” And if someone doesn’t wait for a caliph to appear and takes matters into his own hands? Although the killer is to be “disciplined” for “arrogating the caliph’s prerogative and encroaching upon his rights,” there is “no blood money for killing an apostate (or any expiation)” – in other words, no significant punishment for the killer.
These laws are rooted in the words and deeds of Islam’s prophet, as I explain in my new book, The Truth About Muhammad. When he “forced his entry” into Mecca, according to his ninth-century biographer Ibn Sa‘d, “the people embraced Islam willingly or unwillingly” (Ibn Sa‘d, II.168). The Prophet of Islam ordered the Muslims to fight only those individuals or groups who resisted their advance into the city – except for a list of people who were to be killed, even if they had sought sanctuary in the Ka‘bah itself. One of those was Abdullah bin Sa‘d, a former Muslim who at one time had been employed by Muhammad to write down the Qur’anic revelations; but he had subsequently apostatized and returned to the Quraysh. He was found and brought to Muhammad along with his brother, and pleaded with the Prophet of Islam for clemency: “Accept the allegiance of Abdullah, Apostle of Allah!” Abdullah repeated this twice, but Muhammad remained impassive. After Abdullah repeated it a third time, Muhammad accepted.
As soon as Abdullah had left, Muhammad turned to the Muslims who were in the room and asked: “Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?”
The companions, aghast, responded: “We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye?”
“It is not advisable,” said the Prophet of Islam, “for a Prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes.”
Apostasy from Islam had always been for Muhammad a supreme evil. When he was master of Medina, some livestock herders came to the city and accepted Islam. But they disliked Medina’s climate, so Muhammad gave them some camels and a shepherd; once away from Medina, the herders killed the shepherd, released the camels and renounced Islam. Muhammad had them pursued. When they were caught, he ordered that their hands and feet be amputated (in accord with Qur’an 5:33, which directs that those who cause “corruption in the land” be punished by the amputation of their hands and feet on opposite sides) and their eyes put out with heated iron bars, and that they be left in the desert to die. Their pleas for water, he ordered, must be refused.
The traditions are clear that one of the main reasons that the punishment was so severe was because these men had been Muslims but had “turned renegade.” Muhammad legislated for his community that no Muslim could be put to death except for murder, unlawful sexual intercourse, and apostasy. He said flatly: “If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.”
It stains credulity, in light of all this, that Islamic apologists in the West assert that, in the words of one Ibrahim B. Syed, President of the Islamic Research Foundation International of Louisville, Kentucky, “there is no historical record, which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.” This kind of assertion may be comforting to non-Muslims who would prefer to believe that the capital charges levied against Abdul Rahman were some sort of anomaly. Unfortunately, this claim simply does not accord with the facts of Muhammad’s life. That such assertions pass unchallenged only underscores the need for Westerners to become informed about the actual words and deeds of Muhammad – which make the actions of Islamic states and jihad groups much more intelligible than do the words of Islamic apologists in the West.
The kidnappers’ demand that Abdul Rahman be returned to Afghanistan illustrates the hollowness of the arguments we hear all the time – about how we must support self-proclaimed moderate Muslims like Bassiouni by refraining from noting the flimsiness and weakness of their presentations. While we’re being polite to alleged “reformers,” Muslim hardliners are cheerfully implementing the elements of Islamic law that bemused non-Muslims are nodding their heads and agreeing don’t exist.
It’s good that the Italian government shows no sign that it is considering returning Abdul Rahman to Afghanistan. It would be better if the United States government, on which the Afghan regime depends for its continued survival, called upon the Afghans to drop the Sharia provisions from the nation’s Constitution, and affirm in unequivocal terms freedom of conscience and freedom of religion. For the kidnappers’ action has placed the Afghan government in a peculiar position. What can Afghan officials say? That they don’t want the kidnappers to get hold of Abdul Rahman, because they want to kill him themselves? The kidnappers’ demand is an unpleasant reminder that United States has deposed one Shari'a regime in Afghanistan, that of the Taliban, only to replace it with another. The State Department should call upon the Afghans to seize on the occasion of this demand to call for a searching reevaluation of the role of Islam in Afghan public life. But this, of course, is even less likely to happen than Abdul Rahman’s return to Afghanistan. One certainty is that people will continue to suffer for freedom of conscience in Afghanistan – under the indifferent eye of the U.S. military.
Posted by Robert at October 24, 2006 4:22 PM
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That want what???? That we should hand Jesus over to the Pharisees? So they can crucify him, behead him, chop off his hands and feet or brand his eyes and leave him to die of thirst in the desert like Mohammad enjoyed doing to his and his puppet allah's enemies.
They been smokin too much Hindu Kush.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 24, 2006 4:35 PM
Well said, Mr. Spencer. However, this problem will come out into the open more and more. Most of the few thousand Evangelicals in Turkey are MMB--Muslim background believers--rather than from the old Armenian and Syriac Christian communities. There is also a quiet seepage from Islam to Christianity in Iran and the Maghreb, often feuled by repugnance towards radical Islamicist politics. These are serious human rights issues waiting to happen.
Posted by: Kepha at October 24, 2006 4:37 PM
"freedom of conscience and freedom of religion"
Yes it is VERY important that islam reform this position. I believe that one must search out happiness for themselves and unless one has the above than it becomes harder to.
Posted by: sikhy at October 24, 2006 4:47 PM
Good for Italy in not returning this guy to a certain death.
That Afghan constitution is something alright. How does it differ from the Saudi or Iranian ones? If it doesn't differ, then exactly why are we backing the Afghan government? I suppose since we back the Saudi government (about a useless one as any) we have to back this one. Must be that this is "sharia lite" compared to the Taliban. Odd that we fight sharia on the one hand and support it with the other.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 24, 2006 4:51 PM
Didn’t it say, “followers of other religions” were “free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the provisions of law”?
Yes, but don’t they have a little thing called islamic law? They are really good at tricky wording, but I see right through them. How stupid do they think we are? Sadly,I am starting to believe that this will only be solved atomically.
at October 24, 2006 4:57 PM
I heard Israel Radio's expert on Italian affairs today on Israel Radio Network B. His name is Sergio Minerbi. He reported that Torsello, the Italian journalist, had converted to Islam. Will the kidnappers kill him anyway if Italy does not surrender the Afghan convert to Christianity?? Is Torsello considered a loyal convert?
Posted by: Eliyahu at October 24, 2006 4:59 PM
This proves that we need people educated in how to deal with muslims. The muslims aren't normal people. People dealing with them should understand islam and it's savage values.
On the other hand.........
Posted by: freewoman at October 24, 2006 5:02 PM
Robert,
Mohammed is a great read. Having read the Qur'an, ahadith, as well as some biographical material on Mohammed, I still found your narrative to be very helpful in tying loose ends together.
It's a page-turning action-packed thrill-a-minute story. I couldn't put it down.
I can't wait for the movie.
Posted by: Beagle
at October 24, 2006 5:13 PM
I apologize for being off-topic. It came out today that the translator/soldier who went missing in Iraq is an Iraqi-American. His relative said that armed men came and kidnapped the soldier. I don't know that there were any other eyewitnesses.
Has anyone heard any mention of the possiblity that this soldier went AWOL of his own free will? Would the military even be allowed, in todays' political climate, to investigate that possibility?
Did they ever find that Lebanese-American soldier who went AWOL, twice?
Posted by: special_guest at October 24, 2006 5:18 PM
"Sadly, I am starting to believe that this will only be solved atomically.
-tgusa
Sadly, I, too, am starting to believe that this will only be solved atomically.
-Malinois
at October 24, 2006 5:20 PM
"Sadly, I am starting to believe that this will only be solved atomically.
-tgusa
Sadly, I, too, am starting to believe that this will only be solved atomically.
-Malinois
Sadly, I have to concur. I, too, am starting to believe that this will only be solved atomically.
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 24, 2006 5:40 PM
They are insulted by anything and everything we do. Why? Because even our mere existence on Earth insults them. As far as I am concerned they have already ruined the world and I refuse to let them take control of Earth. If you care about Men, Women, Children, Dogs, Cats, Trees, Grass,Anything, just look at their countries! They are locusts on the Earth devouring anything in their path. Leaving a desert in their wake.
Yes they did find the LebaneseAmerican, he went home, where is home, America? Nope Lebanon. You have a good point regarding the AWOL willingly theory.
Oh crap here is henry to ruin the thread, don’t you have a baby to kill somewhere yourself? Henry, the jihazi say the Jews eat babies, You sound like one of them.
at October 24, 2006 5:46 PM
On this topic I would recommend the book
"The Law of Apostasy in Islam" by Samuel Zwemer.
It was originally published in 1924, but there is now a reprint available in paperback.
at October 24, 2006 5:47 PM
"It is not advisable," said the Prophet of Islam, "for a Prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes."
Or with the mouth. How then, would the Prophet explain taqiyya?
Henry,
When the Blessed Mother appeared to Lucia, Francisco and Jacinta in 1917, she told them about the end of WWI but warned if we didn't mend our ways and stop offending God, an even worse war would come along in the form of WWII. Well, we didn't and it did, and abortion wasn't even legal then. What do we think is in store for us now? Perhaps Islamic dominance will be the answer to our deafness about abortion. If you think about it, we are sickened and disgusted and cry real tears here for those murdered in the name of Islam. But our society doesn't bat an eye when it comes to the daily slaughter of the innocents under our own care.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 24, 2006 5:56 PM
Debates are much tougher when the facts aren't on your side. Thank you for your research and willingness to speak out. It sure seems like people are starting to listen.
Posted by: limes at October 24, 2006 5:58 PM
Regarding apostasy, read it from the horse's mouth:
The Punishment of the Apostate According to Islamic Law.
Mawdudi is a very famous Muslim scholar of"modern" times.
Posted by: yaqub at October 24, 2006 6:00 PM
All the moderates always claim the violent muslims do not represent them or islam, as a matter of fact they are not even “real muslims”. If we call that bluff and stick a pork chop in every misguided practitioner of the false islam that we kill we take away their ability to go see allah and the “real muslims” and us will be safer for our trouble. The message should be simple, kill any infidel and you will die one, absolutely no muslim death ritual should be observed, bury them in pig pens. How could a real muslim complain? We need to talk the religion excuse away from them, any way we can.
Posted by: Ronin at October 24, 2006 6:02 PM
This is what makes me pound my fist on the table and repeat insults about George Bush. When Mr Bush promised democracy in Afghaninstan I did not expect the Quran to be the foundation of that government, but there it is in the Afghan constitution.
Beagle, and everyone else: I must tell y'all this. Its really kind of funny. Your getting a rare story, I do not unsually tell about my dreams.
Before turning the light off, I read for about twenty minutes. I prefer detective stories from the 30s and 40s. A few nights ago I read several pages from The Truth about Mohammed. I woke up about 3:00 am in the middle of a nightmare. In my dream I was standing on my back porch while airplanes were crashing all around the countryside and just a few yards from my house. I woke up before one fell on me.
Coincidence? Maybe. Bram Stoker never caused a nightmare; perhaps it is because vampires do not exist, but blood thirsty Muslims do.
Posted by: Pelayo at October 24, 2006 6:02 PM
Fox News' Centanni and his cameraman are Muslims, I guess they are apostates now. At least in the eyes of a true believing Muslim who needs an excuse to shed some blood.
Posted by: Pelayo at October 24, 2006 6:13 PM
Doesn’t bat an eye? Then explain to me why it is such a hotly contested topic or why laws regarding it are on more and more ballots these days. How many infidel babies would die (probably bashed in the head with a rock) in a jihazi world? BTW, I am still at Jihad Watch right? Wake up, we can change our laws as freemen, we will not have that luxury if they ever gain control.
I don’t know Pelayo they knida dropped of the face of the Earth. Maybe their new religion/cult is taking up all of their time.
at October 24, 2006 6:18 PM
Don't look at the US. Sadly, our leadership labors under the delusion that Islam is a religion of peace and thirsts for democracy. Not only has the US sold out the Afghani people in it's quest to institute democracy, but it has sold out the American people who have sent their sons and daughters to fight for such a cause.
If Mr. Rahman can make his way to the US, I volunteer my hospitality and home to keep him safe. I would welcome an explanation from the State Department and the accompanying international incident it would spark.
As for the question where is the hero? Where is even the human? posed by Henry, I'm starting to understand that Israel is the only hero left.
Posted by: Shakey_Premise at October 24, 2006 6:33 PM
Tgusa,
I'm running out to a class and won't be back for a few hours but would love to discuss this with you and how it relates to our subject at hand. There is a relationship between cause and effect. Throughout history man has been beaten up pretty badly by wars, famines, plagues, etc. at times when he has been less than kind to his fellow man. Man has also been blessed, helped and saved when he turns his eyes back to God...think Lepanto. I don't have time to elaborate right now but if you want to leave your comments I'll address them when I get back in.
Have a good evening.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 24, 2006 6:38 PM
A convert (or "revert" or, as Muslims are careful to describe them for the sake of Infidel audiences, "New Muslims") to Islam is akin to a new recruit -- a recruit to the Army of Islam. And should new recruit, or those born into that Army, decide to leave, they are to be treated as traitors, especially if they dare to tell Infidels anything unpleasant about Islam, anything that would hint at certain truths, that would damage the Cause of Jihad.
So it makes perfect sense to threaten Apostates with death - isn't that what Muhamamd tells Believers in the Hadith those Apostates deserve? From the viewpoint of Islam, they have committed treason. Freedom of conscience does not exist for Muslims; as a concept, it is almost impossible for Believers to grasp. They simply can't quite get it. As they simply can't quite get so many things.
Posted by: Hugh at October 24, 2006 6:40 PM
On this topic I would recommend the book
"The Law of Apostasy in Islam" by Samuel Zwemer.
It was originally published in 1924, but there is now a reprint available in paperback."
-- from a poster above
A very useful suggestion. And if it has been reprinted, that's a good sign as well. Let's see how many university courses on Islam put that book on their "Recommended Reading" -- let's not even dare to hope that such a book might be part of the Required Reading.
at October 24, 2006 6:42 PM
Le plus ca change...
From http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5359
More than 80 years ago, in his 1924 The Law of Apostasy in Islam, Samuel Zwemer made these observations, still depressingly relevant today, and extending beyond the “Near East”, to the entire Muslim world:
From Samuel Zwemer
The story is told that Damocles, at the court of Dionysius of Sicily, pronounced the latter the happiest man on earth. When, however, Damocles was permitted to sit on the royal throne, he perceived a sword hanging by a horse-hair over his head. The imagined felicity vanished, and he begged Dionysius to remove him from his seat of peril. Today [circa 1924] we read of new mandatories, of liberty, and of promised equality to minorities under Moslem rule; and newspapers assert that a new era has come to the Near East. Economic development, intellectual awakening, reforms, constitutions, parliaments and promises Does the sword of Damocles, however, still hang over the head of each convert from Islam to Christianity? Is the new Islam more tolerant than the old? Will the lives and property of converts be protected, and the rights of minorities be respected? ….
Again and again has European pressure, aided by a few educated Orientals, endeavored to secure equality before the law for all religions and races in the Near East. But as often as the attempt was made it proved a failure, each new failure more ghastly than the last. The reason is that the conscience and the faith of the most sincere and upright Moslems are bound up with the Koran and the Traditions. Civilization cannot eradicate deep-seated convictions. Rifles and ironclads, the cafe, the theatre, written constitutions, representative parliaments; none of these reach far below the surface. A truer freedom…than the one supplied by their own faith, must come before Moslems can enter into the larger liberty which we enjoy.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl at October 24, 2006 6:44 PM
14th June is International Apostacy Day.
Posted by: Voltaire at October 24, 2006 7:21 PM
Eliyahu asked:
Is Torsello considered a loyal convert?
I believe this BBC published image will answer your question.
at October 24, 2006 7:40 PM
Just posted at LGF:
Kidnapped AP photographer Emilio Morenatti, another photojournalist who seems to have an unusually close relationship with genocidal terrorist gangs, has been released—and while in captivity he learned a new use for the Islamic veil: Kidnapped AP photographer freed in Gaza.
at October 24, 2006 7:51 PM
All the moderates always claim the violent muslims do not represent them or islam, as a matter of fact they are not even “real muslims”. If we call that bluff and stick a pork chop in every misguided practitioner of the false islam that we kill we take away their ability to go see allah and the “real muslims” and us will be safer for our trouble. The message should be simple, kill any infidel and you will die one, absolutely no muslim death ritual should be observed, bury them in pig pens. How could a real muslim complain? We need to talk the religion excuse away from them, any way we can.
Posted by: Ronin
Ronin, that is ON POINT. Wrap tehm in pigskin and bury them out back from Fort Knox. or grind them up[ with pig guts so their bodies will literally disintegrate with the pig guts. That should be something to keep any of the others from messing around with is once they see demonstrable proof that we are serious.
After all, they started desecrating our bodies in Somalia and now they do so in Iraq.
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 24, 2006 8:11 PM
Eliyahu asked:
Is Torsello considered a loyal convert?
I believe this BBC published image will answer your question.
Posted by: miira
No need to ransom that boy out!!
at October 24, 2006 8:13 PM
Eliyahu asked:
Is Torsello considered a loyal convert?
I believe this BBC published image will answer your question.
Posted by: miira
No need to ransom that boy out!! Looks like a Cat Stevens clone..
at October 24, 2006 8:20 PM
Gabriele Torsello says in his online CV that he is a "photojournalist specialising in war zones and hostile environments, mainly in Jammu and Kashmir and Islamic Countries/Areas".
There has been no official confirmation of the abduction from the authorities in Rome or Kabul.
Two German journalists were shot dead by unknown attackers in northern Afghanistan earlier this month.
I am German and I don't even care they shot two German **journos** there. If they shot our soldiers - THAT would upset me. They are there for a good reason.
I don't think the Italian taxpayers need to bail this moslem journo out. leve that to his family of the press he works for.
Maybe it's time these journos got the hint: Don't stick your noses where they don;t belong!!!!
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 24, 2006 8:22 PM
Special_guest, I am becoming suspicious about the disappearance of the Iraqi American soldier who is missing. He is working as a translator and supposedly his wife just happened to be in town. This is beginning to smell AWOL to me. Just like the Lebanese Marine who went missing, and has never been found, still AWOL. Seems that they can't be trusted, even when part of our military.
Posted by: Bonniea at October 24, 2006 8:24 PM
PS: Not to change the subject again, but Debka is reporting 5 of our warships are off the coast of Iran.....3 Navy and 2 Marine Expeditionary just arrived on Saturday. Very interesting.
Posted by: Bonniea at October 24, 2006 8:26 PM
Re: "The Law of Apostasy in Islam" by Samuel Zwemer.
Avaliable online here courtesy of answering-islam
at October 24, 2006 9:58 PM
Hugh, interesting point. I wonder what Tom Goutierrez at University of Nebraska at Omaha's thoughts on the book are. He runs the Center for Afghan Studies. There is a long history there with ties to the State Dept. and the CIA, notably publishing manuals on conducting war against the Soviets, which are being used to create jihad against out troops.
Posted by: Shakey_Premise at October 24, 2006 10:48 PM
The hatred against apostates proves that Islam is not a religion, but a cult.
Posted by: rocky at October 24, 2006 11:12 PM
"One certainty is that people will continue to suffer for freedom of conscience in Afghanistan – under the indifferent eye of the U.S. military."
I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment with one minor exception. The quote referenced above. I seriously doubt that the U.S. military is indifferent to the suffering of freedom of conscience. I'm more inclined to believe they are following orders derived from state department policy rather than "War on Terror" policy. Odds are they would be much happier emptying a magazine into a crowd of 'death to the infidel' peaceful protesters.
at October 24, 2006 11:41 PM
This is what makes me pound my fist on the table and repeat insults about George Bush. When Mr Bush promised democracy in Afghaninstan I did not expect the Quran to be the foundation of that government, but there it is in the Afghan constitution.
and:
"One certainty is that people will continue to suffer for freedom of conscience in Afghanistan – under the indifferent eye of the U.S. military."
I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment with one minor exception. The quote referenced above. I seriously doubt that the U.S. military is indifferent to the suffering of freedom of conscience. I'm more inclined to believe they are following orders derived from state department policy rather than "War on Terror" policy. Odds are they would be much happier emptying a magazine into a crowd of 'death to the infidel' peaceful protesters.
The indifference we see here comes fromn the White House. They don't give a SH*T about democracy at home, so why would they care about it so much abroad?!
They are cynically using the concept of "bringing democvracy to the middle east" so they can shut up the left / liberals as good as possible while winking to the "right" - as they perceive it - who cares about democrary over there - we're fighting terrorism. Unfortunately their half-hearted approach to both ends makes EVERYONE realize that ALL of us have been played against the MIDDLE!
DON'T VOTE!! But if ya hafta.. write in MICKEY MOUSE!!!
Let's not LEGITIMIZE this BULLSH*T any longer!!!
Michael Savage was GREAT tonight about just that topic.
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 24, 2006 11:50 PM
Several Muslim spokesmen have insisted the same thing to me in radio debates, excoriating me as “Islamophobic” for pointing out that many Islamic texts do indeed call for apostates to be killed.
When they can't win the argument - as they never can because the evidence against islam is written right into the koran [and as set forth by its followers in their actions] they seek to assasinate the messenger.. the I-word, the N-word, the R-word and the B-word are coded reference words that will cause any good liberal to shudder and feel your pain if you are a jihadist.
Just the thing for npr.. GOOD GRIEF - they do tend to prattle on all day and then at night they have the BBC on before they RE-BROADCAST their daily dose of dribble!! Can't they at least have something a bit more to the center at night??!! Noone's listening at night anyway.. :-)
[the ratings might go thru the roof if Robert and/or Hugh had a show at night - How about it.. is there a station that would like to make some good hard cash??!]
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 25, 2006 12:03 AM
"Muhammad had them pursued. When they were caught, he ordered that their hands and feet be amputated (in accord with Qur’an 5:33, which directs that those who cause “corruption in the land” be punished by the amputation of their hands and feet on opposite sides) and their eyes put out with heated iron bars, and that they be left in the desert to die. Their pleas for water, he ordered, must be refused."
In all the jihad history that I have read, muslims have treated infidels in a similar manner. Completely inhuman and alien.
at October 25, 2006 2:21 AM
Oh, don't worry about it.
According to President Bush, religious people don't kill innocent people.
Shouldn't be a problem.
Posted by: PRCS at October 25, 2006 2:41 AM
I agree with the previous comments that the matter is going to be solved atomically. Looks like the last chapter of Islam is arriving, and will be written with the blood of Muslims, in fact, more so with that of the moderate Muslims.
Posted by: rajagopalan at October 25, 2006 4:45 AM
germaninamerica,
That is a great idea. I can’t think of a better way to change things than doing nothing. Are you unhappy with their decisions? Write them and tell it like you feel. I do and so do many others. The Pres. is not frozen in time or the prefect man. Notice the beginning of a change in strategy happening? I do and it comes from one place, citizens speaking out to their elected leaders. Now is not the time for weak knees or pouting. Michael Savage has some good ideas, he also tends to whine and become vindictive if he doesn’t get his way. I mean, what the **** does he think he will solve if for instance he was shot in the foot and in protest he blasted a hole his own arm. Freedom and Liberty must be fought for, if our troops are out there laying their butts on the line, we have an obligation to do what we can to help. Doing nothing or even worse closing your eyes in a time of our countries great need seems to me to be an insult to all who have given everything they had for us. I do not agree with much of what has been done but I will never surrender, not to the jihazi or to any politician or party. Stand up and fight for what you believe in or get ready to be royally screwed.
at October 25, 2006 10:36 AM
PS: Not to change the subject again, but Debka is reporting 5 of our warships are off the coast of Iran.....3 Navy and 2 Marine Expeditionary just arrived on Saturday. Very interesting.
Posted by: Bonniea
They have till Nov.7 to do something. Impeachment and other nice stuff looms on the horizon. It's going to be a MESS! Bloatbaugh the Bushbot is on again trying to drum up the masses. 6 years of spend spend spend and turning the White House into the Ramadan Inn have served to turn off an awful lot of folks. From that perspective things really can't get much worse. Let the Dhims shove the ROP down our throats in even more blatant fashion and maybe the country will be ready to vote for a REAL PATRIOT like Tom Tancredo or Rudolph Giuliani in 2008. The status quo is NO LONGER acceptable!
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 25, 2006 1:12 PM
germaninamerica,
That is a great idea. I can’t think of a better way to change things than doing nothing. Are you unhappy with their decisions? Write them and tell it like you feel. I do and so do many others. The Pres. is not frozen in time or the prefect man. Notice the beginning of a change in strategy happening? I do and it comes from one place, citizens speaking out to their elected leaders. Now is not the time for weak knees or pouting. Michael Savage has some good ideas, he also tends to whine and become vindictive if he doesn’t get his way. I mean, what the **** does he think he will solve if for instance he was shot in the foot and in protest he blasted a hole his own arm. Freedom and Liberty must be fought for, if our troops are out there laying their butts on the line, we have an obligation to do what we can to help. Doing nothing or even worse closing your eyes in a time of our countries great need seems to me to be an insult to all who have given everything they had for us. I do not agree with much of what has been done but I will never surrender, not to the jihazi or to any politician or party. Stand up and fight for what you believe in or get ready to be royally screwed.
Posted by: tgusa
TG.. People HAVE been calling and emailing and writing.. I get form replies indicating some intern sent me back some form.. by the way the form is EXATLY the same from both the Presiden't office and the Vice President's office. It's obvious they've turned a deaf ear to us. So let's turn the tables and not legitimize them any longer.
Our elected leaders - once they get in office they forget all about you and me. They disappear into that abyss.. the Black Hole known as the Inside of the Beltway. Maybe we should rename it the Bowels of the Beltway. SOWdi money glitters and holds them all in its spell.. trinkets and shiny beads.. drunk on firewater our Chiefs hand over the deeds to the lands.. mosks dot the landscape where once there were forts. Looks eerily familiar, doesn't it? I mean, there are folks from Texas reporting burka-bots parading around.. a guy from Maine had the same experience. I mean IS THERE ANYPLACE where TEHY are NOT??!!! Say THANK YOU, Jorge bin-Bush!! Great job snowballing us all!! Djimmi Carter couldn't have DONE WORSE!! You have a phone "war on terror" abroad and you let bin Laden go at Tora Bora.. You pout our Marines on Trial in Camp Pendleton. They have stifling and DANGEROUS Rules of Engagement.. what a recruiting argument!! They give them the kloran in Camp Gitmo and Three squares a day.. Red Cross and ACLU visits to boot!! All this supposed to make us think they're fighting those evil bastards when all they are doing is getting our men and women killed over NOTHING!! So they can have Sharia-based governments in Iraq and in Afghanistan!! Today the president of Iraq mouthed off because our tropp raided some armed mufti-camp. That would NEVER fly if Patton were in charge! Or Eisenhauer.. So FORGET IT, King W. You're DONE! Nov. 7.. Time for regime change inside the Beltway! We'll hold our noses till 2008. The phony war serves to distract our attention from YET ANOTHER 60000 SOWdi "students" flooding into the country this year!! Am I the ONLY ONE who has heard of them making the deal just weeks ago??!! All hush hush of course!!! Bush is NO PATRIOT!!!
As for Michael Savage.. he IS doing something. He's way to conservative for my taste socially-speaking, but I can live with that because he KNOWS THE ENEMY we ALL face and he is the ONLY one who SPEAKS UP and YELLS and SCREAMS about it. Marc Levin is also good.
At least Savage and Levin are PATRIOTS!
Posted by: germaninamerica at October 25, 2006 1:29 PM
germaninamerica,
I agree with your post, but remember the Pres. Is gone in 2 years. We will have a new ball game this coming election 2008 because the Presidency will be wide open. It is going to be a very interesting campaign. If I am correct we must go all the way back to Kennedy vs. Nixon 1960 to find an election where a sitting Pres. or VP were not running on one side or the other.
at October 25, 2006 1:55 PM
Opp’s I’m wrong. Eisenhower vs. Stevenson 1952.
Posted by: tgusa at October 25, 2006 2:12 PM
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