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The headline calls this a "debate," but the only speakers seem to have been Islamic apologist John Esposito and a CAIR official. Kudos to the University of Chicago! That's a debate? That's a pillow fight. "Experts debate Islam," by Nicholas Nardini for the Chicago Maroon, with thanks to PRCS:
Spectators packed Hutchison Commons last Wednesday night to hear renowned Islamic scholar John Esposito’s talk entitled “Understanding Islam in the Modern World,” organized by the Muslim Students Association (MSA).Esposito, a professor of Religion, International Studies and Islamic Studies at Georgetown University, rose to prominence after the 1979 Iranian Revolution, when academics took greater interest in politics of the Islamic world.
Before Esposito spoke, vice president of the MSA and third-year Khalil Qato encouraged those present to think forward to “a cold Autumn night 20 years from now at the U of C” when students will hold our generation responsible for resolving the current situation.
Ahmed Rehab, a software engineer and director of the Council of American-Islamic Relations, as well as a frequent commentator on Islamic issues, then took the podium. He said Islam is truly a Western religion and will eventually find its niche in the West, but that a misrepresentation of the religion, ignorance, and an Islamophobic bias in the news media prevents that realization.
Esposito, who spoke next, slammed Americans for their ignorance concerning Islam. “I have the best job in the world, because people have been asking the exact same questions for 30 years,” he said.
He compared today’s situation with that of the eighth century, when the Islamic empire encroached upon Europe. “We think of 14 centuries of jihad, they think of 14 centuries of crusade,” Esposito said.
14 centuries of Crusade? When the first one wasn't called until 1095? Is John Esposito living in the year 2506?
Posted by Robert at November 8, 2006 2:36 PM
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These clowns don't want a real debate. As is alluded to, it was one in name only. Sounds like a Islam love-fest to me.
Posted by: yohannbiimu![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 8, 2006 2:57 PM
Esposito DOES have the best job in the world: just wave the racism/islamophobia card around on his way to collect payment from his mullah sponsors.
High treason.
Posted by: Know Your Enemy at November 8, 2006 3:01 PM
All religions, including Islam, need to publicly renounce violence. They need to renounce violence not only in words, but in deeds as well. I do not think that this is too much to ask for.
at November 8, 2006 3:01 PM
Who the hell would "pack" into Hutchinson Commons for this asininity? Did U of C students have to support this with student fees?
Posted by: Infidel33 at November 8, 2006 3:06 PM
"He said Islam is truly a Western religion and will eventually find its niche in the West, but that a misrepresentation of the religion, ignorance, and an Islamophobic bias in the news media prevents that realization."
Laughable statement beyond belief. How is Islam a "Western" religion? How is it a religion at all?
And the part about the Islamophobia in the media is really a scream. Virtually every Western media outlet is a local bureau of Al-Jazeera. I guess they don't call it the religion of peace enough times if they don't say it at least 200 times in a given day.
Islam is misrepresented? Sure, and 9/11 was merely a figment of the imagination-nothing but a David Copperfield production. No, the evil we see and hear on a daily basis represents all that Islam is far too well.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 8, 2006 3:14 PM
Ignore the facts. Just say whatever you want, then say it again, and again and again, and eventually many people who do not think for themselves will believe you.
Posted by: MP at November 8, 2006 3:16 PM
You may note that right after Ahmed Rehab stated that "Islam is truly a Western religion...", Esposito 'slammed' Americans for their ignorance concerning Islam.
I'm so confused.
Posted by: PRCS at November 8, 2006 3:19 PM
Esposito is the best hooker Saudi money can buy, and I'm counting the French.
Posted by: Beagle at November 8, 2006 3:22 PM
Beagle - maybe you should reconsider... French hookers must be better than Esposito.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 8, 2006 4:04 PM
I will also slam the Western media for misunderstanding Islam--and Muslims. People called Muslims range all the way from the bearded and skullcapped types to folks who won't sacrifice pork to the ancestors. It is incredible to me how common are those who speak of Islamic "fundamentalism" as a mainly Shi'ite phenomenon, despite the Sunni suicide bombers in Israel and on 9/11. But I also pray that people like Esposito and MSA will one day honestly tell us what jihad really is. Yes, some of those people in Chicago sincerely believe that they should live at peace with non-Muslim Americans, and I wish them well. But the fact is that the global Islamofascist movement has torn the veil off of the meaning of jihad.
Posted by: Kepha at November 8, 2006 4:18 PM
He compared today’s situation with that of the eighth century, when the Islamic empire encroached upon Europe. "We think of 14 centuries of jihad, they think of 14 centuries of crusade," Esposito said.
So why not think of it as 14 centuries of encroaching?
at November 8, 2006 4:28 PM
It fills me up with dread when I read that this sort of full blown islamic propoganda is fed to our kids - unopposed.
Isn't this how National Socialism got accepted by gullible Germans who were sold the second most despicable ideology invented by man and who sleep walked into years of tyranny, murder and subjugation?
The West is indeed on the brink of islamic takover, people are being softened up by our media and politicians so as to make the transition as smooth as possible.
I truly fear for our future.
Scenes played out at Mount Medusa do not seem too bad an option.
at November 8, 2006 4:33 PM
"renowned Islamic scholar John Esposito’s..."
-- from the article above
"Renowned" where? In Saudi Arabia and other states that are proud to call John Esposito one of their own, and who help finance the "Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding" (which began with money from a rich Lebanese contractor, a kind of Beirut equivalent of the senior Bin Laden)? In the councils of CAIR? Among his likenesses, who would love to have the same Arab money supporting their own little dream institutes, in MESA Nostra (which google)? Is he renowned among the scholars of Islam at, say, German universities? Among those who teach about Islam at the Universite d'Aix-Marseille? What philologists has he impressed? What do Michael Cook and Patricia Crone and Bernard Lewis, not one of whom can be described, especially not now, as resolutely "anti-Islam," think of Esposito?
And what do those people who know Islam best and are willing to speak truthfully about it -- Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Azam Kamguian, and thousands or tens or even hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of other articulate people born into Islam through no fault of their own, think of John Esposito's comprehension and presentation of Islam? Does his behavior nauseate them as much as I have heard -- or have I heard from all the most unrepresentative former Muslims? And what do the not-quite-apostates, but the Muslims-for-identification-purposes-only Muslims, such as Amir Taheri and Fouad Ajami and Kanan Makiya, and so many secular Turks, think of John Esposito and his presentation of Islam? Disgust? Fury? Perhaps a special house blend of the two?
Posted by: Hugh at November 8, 2006 4:54 PM
"they think of 14 centuries of crusade"
Can someone tell me where the Crusader Recruitment Office is?, I would like to enlist.
Posted by: Infidel_Dog at November 8, 2006 5:18 PM
More "Islamophobia" here:
"Islam phobia definitely contributed to my loss. I'm sure it hurt me"
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at November 8, 2006 6:41 PM
He said Islam is truly a Western religion and will eventually find its niche in the West, but that a misrepresentation of the religion, ignorance, and blah blah blaaah.
The Western public misunderstands Islam because they are ignorant of it. Islam has not been representetd to the public, except for the misinformation about it "revealed" by the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Tim Russert, Hugh Hewitt, and David Broder --- Unicorn watchers all.
The tide will not, can not, be turned until the general public has the ideology Islam revealed to it in the form of the Koran and the Sunnah.
Doing this ain't rocket science, but somebody must make a frank and full disclosure of Islam over TV and radio.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 8, 2006 8:08 PM
Esposito is the best hooker Saudi money can buy, and I'm counting the French.
--- posted by Beagle
I object to this rash statement, Beagle. Show some respect for the panoply of whores lined up around this opportunity called Islam.
Nobody knows who John Esposito is. He's a no account ineffectual whore on this compared to, say, Hugh Hewitt or Bill O'Reilly.
I say this cuz, when a whore works for free, well, that's your premium whore. They're too dignified to take the Saudi grant money, they wanna get married to them and lay in as a full time concubine, a "kept woman" so to speak.
Moslem Men have long understood this important whore-distinciton principle well, Beagle. Why can't you?
Bark once if you don't.
Bark twice if you understand.
Bark and bark only, Beagle; only barks and now words, Vassily. We'll be listening.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 8, 2006 8:18 PM
Alarmed Pig Farmer,
What you ask for is bravery,
courage to say the truth
but what rules is the state of fear,
flames of hatred burning our lives,
senseless and fleshtearing,
it is the state of nihilism
and suicide, narciscism,
the nadir of civilizations,
a peeling away
of the thin veneer of civility.
It is the time of duality,
darkness and chaos,
not the time of the unity
of the Golden Rule.
It is a mythic time of no myth or story.
Courage is rare, so we must call out
for the heroes to appear,
for those who love freedom
and their fellow man
to come forth and lead us to victory.
at November 8, 2006 8:36 PM
I just want to alert people about "A Khokar" and his comments here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013958.php#comments
Instead of addressing Islam he is focusing on trying to discredit Christianity (which whatever you believe about that topic is besides the point since its Islam that is telling every muslim to kill us).
To A_Kokar please come clean if you are a muslim and we can discuss your "faith".
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 8, 2006 8:40 PM
Esposito is a complete disgrace -- another useful idiot. And so is Georgetown University. I recently read that GU accepted another $20M for Esposito's Center from bin Talal, and as a result, kicked off all of the Christian student organizations off campus as part of the agreement with the donor. Most of the Jesuit-Christian ethics and beliefs from the website seem to be gone now too. Wonder why we don't see that article anywhere?
Posted by: Pershing at November 8, 2006 8:52 PM
Esposito, a professor of Religion, International Studies and Islamic Studies at Georgetown University...
Georgetown, eh? Haven't I heard something about that place and Islam just a few weeks ago? Something about lots of money coming from ... where was that country again?
Gad, between that and the Jesuits; I think the Roman Church has trouble brewing -- or is this my imagination?
Posted by: witness at November 8, 2006 9:42 PM
Alarmed Pig Farmer, don't be fooled by the Alice-in-Wonderland Islamic vocabulary. A "concubine" to a Muslim is not what you think it is, with images of high-class Manhattan call girls or graceful geishas. It is a sex slave, a woman kidnapped or captured in war, imprisoned and raped by her Muslim owner after her husband and/or family is killed as an inconvenience. Her children might be taken as slaves instead of killed, in particular the little boys as temporal stand-ins for the "scattered pearl" sexual meat of Paradise.
Don't dignify Esposito by comparing him to a prostitute. He is a collaborator, in the true WWII sense.
Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at November 9, 2006 2:04 AM
Prof. Esposito (whom I briefly met many years ago when he was at The College of the Holy Cross, in Worcester, MA)has made a career out of shuck and jive. And he's paid well to do his schtick, which apparently must work for a lot of folks.
What does that say about the condition of academia that empty vessels like this man can teach, publish, and hold forth about a topic of which he truly knows a lot less than he thinks?
at November 9, 2006 3:21 AM
Well, now that the Dems rule both Houses of Congress, I suppose that we can expect the "cultural experience" of Islam to expand in American public schools; while the "religious expression" of all other belief systems (perhaps including secular humanism) to be banned under the Constitutional fiction of "separation of church and state."
As such, the exalted Esposito will no doubt be called upon to lead the way in the cultural hegemony that will ensue, with the help of CAIR.
Israel is toast.
Bush is already back peddling and various scheduled visits have been cancelled -- Condi was anti-Israel in many ways and we were arming Hamas; but the Dems might as well join the Hamas missile battery crews in Golan in their anti-Israel position!
OBTW, my reference to the Constitutional fiction of "separation of church and state" means that this provision originally protected the free expression of religion from government intrusion.
This point was articulated I believe, by Thomas Jefferson, in a letter he wrote answering an inquiry by a group of Baptists concerned that their religion would be persecuted as it had been in Europe.
Jefferson, seeking to allay their fears, mentioned in his rejoinder letter, that the newly minted Constitution had a protective wall of separation, precluding the government from interfering with any church including the Baptists.
Unfortunately, contemporary jurisprudence in American has turned this separation idea, 180 degrees from its original intent.
By this redefinition of intent, and by redefining Islam as a culture rather than a religion, the Espositios can in essence ban Judeo-Christian-Hindu-everyone else’s religion from public discussion, yet have the luxury to impose by force of law, their favored religion -- er, uhhh -- culture.
Truly sad.
Gad, if I am seeing things please do elucidate my errata so that I can take some comfort and assurance that all is not as it would seem.
at November 9, 2006 8:48 AM
14 centuries of Crusade? When the first one wasn't called until 1095? Is John Esposito living in the year 2506?
Aha! So Esposito is a time-traveler too! The entire Lizardoid-CIA-Opus Dei-Mossad-Alpha Centauri-BushMcChimpyHitler-Rovian-LGF conspiracy becomes unraveled. Don't think you can hide the truth for much longer.
Prophet Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at November 9, 2006 9:25 AM
Well, maybe prof Esposito believes that even early Muslim conquests were caused by "Christian fanaticism". Maybe there were 13 Crusades instead of nine, starting with 7 century . Maybe Charles Martel wasn't a defender, but a conqueror.
at November 9, 2006 11:20 AM
Ahmed Rehab...said Islam is truly a Western religion and will eventually find its niche in the West, but that a misrepresentation of the religion, ignorance...
Esposito, who spoke next, slammed Americans for their ignorance concerning Islam.
...................
I get so tired of this. You hear Muslims constantly slamming Westerners in general, and Americans in particular, about their egregious ignorance of Islam.
There are many large World religions which the average Westerner knows even less about than Islam--Hinduism, say, or Buddhism. Yet you do not hear most Hindus and Buddhists sneeringly talk about how ignorant Westerners are.
Also, this is rarely considered a two-way street where Muslim ignorance is involved. Many Muslims seem to lack even the most elemental understanding of Judaism and Christianity. In addition, some Muslims have made astonishingly ignorant comments about democracy and Western values, even when they have lived in Western countries for many years.
The most recent example was the "uncovered meat" sheik in Australia claiming that he was a servant to Allah first and a servant to Australian society second. He did not seem to understand that Australians (indeed all Westerners) consider themselves citizens, not servants to the state. Few took him to task at all; certainly no one I can recall sneeringly refered to his ignorance.
Why, really, should most non-Muslims know or care about Islam, unless they are studying history or comparative religion?
The only reason this has become important is that Islam has again become such a threat to the non-Muslim world.
The fact is, though, that the *last thing* people like Rehab and Esposito want is for Westerners to truly educate themselves about Islam. I'm sure they realize that most will go from being neutral or somewhat positive about Islam to being highly alarmed.
Look at how hostile they are to people like Robert Spencer or Daniel Pipes when they challenge the idea that all Westerners are ignorant, how they claim things are taken out of context or are incorrect, without ever citing any examples of supposed error.
No--what the constant charges of ignorance are meant to do is make non-Muslims feel inferior and unable to rationally assess what they learn about Islam. This is one reason why so many people, despite the increasingly disturbing news about radical Islam reported even in the main-stream press feel compelled to ignore what is becomming increasingly obvious, and hedge that they really don't know much about Islam after all.
Posted by: gravenimage at November 9, 2006 5:28 PM
I think all terrorists (uncompromising or not)and especially Christian or Islamic should not be put to death if caught before they can do (complete) ANY damage. They should have their tongue-tips, toes and fingertips and TESTICLES removed and kept in prison for life. I think thats' preferable to death. They aren't afraid to die as long,
as they can have their 70 virgins or whatever.
They just won't be able to enjoy them.
at November 11, 2006 12:38 PM
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