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Does it occur to the pro-jihad rappers (whom Jihad Watch has most recently covered here) that there would be no rap or hip-hop without the cultural influence of the old Great Satan across the pond? Do they regard their use of it as appropriating and liquidating elements of a culture under conquest, or do they really think their rights as recording "artists" and adherents of hip-hop culture would be so respected under the Sharia law they advocate? By Sean O'Neill for The Times:
HIP-HOP and rap artists are teaching young Muslims the ideology of radical Islamism through songs about the war in Iraq, the oppression of Muslims and the creation of an Islamic state governed by Sharia, or religious law.
Intelligence agencies have identified music as a “tool for indoctrination”. The phenomenon began with an American group called Soldiers of Allah. The group has since disbanded but its music and lyrics remain popular on the internet. Other groups in Britain, France and the US have been identified as giving cause for concern. Many use the derogatory term “kufur” to describe non-Muslims.
Madeleine Gruen, an American intelligence analyst, highlighted the lyrics of a British group called Blakstone as a possible gateway to extremist politics.
Ms Gruen has studied how music, internet forums, boardgames and fashion have been used to radicalise youths.
She said: “The music is very persuasive because it is giving young people ideas, and those ideas are what might motivate someone to become a jihadi. The material is all in English. It’s spreading a radical message to domestic populations that don’t speak Arabic or Urdu.”
Ms Gruen said that Blakstone’s lyrics echoed the views of Hizb ut-Tahrir (HuT), the Islamist political movement.
Blakstone operates from an industrial estate in Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey. The group could not be contacted yesterday. In an interview last year, its founder, Ahmed Ashley Welbeck said that the music was “about the underdog” and offered “a middle way” between Muslim tradition and street culture.
Last night, a spokesman for HuT said that it had no formal links with Blakstone or any other rap groups.
He said: “Our message is out there, it is very widespread and it is hardly surprising that groups might pick up on it.
“HuT is a more traditional political movement. We use conferences, websites and leaflets, but rap music is not one of our things.
“There is a lot of anger out there, especially about the Iraq war. Our challenge is to channel that frustration and anger into political activism.”
THE LYRICS SEEN AS A CALL TO ARMS
Yesterday I was dreaming I dreamt of The State we made, a place with purpose and meaning. I saw my people they were smiling not grieving, I saw our kids they were safe they were breathing . . . And no more talk of war and of bombs to drop, under Allah’s Shade and Shield and fearing not. No more bleeding due scheming dogs on thrones, whom plot with foes to spread woes, the stench of rot. And that’s how it’s supposed to be. I look around and all I see today is poverty and misery from systems ruling over me with blasphemy. Their tool, kufur rule it’s a catastrophe
- From Close 2 Me, by Blakstone
No Khalifah [Islamic state] Where are we heading? Without Islam we’re stressing, implement Allah’s blessing, that’s what I am addressing. Apart from this kufur scheme. Bring Islam back to the scene. Let’s unite the Ummah [Muslim nation], following only the Koran and the Sunnah. Even if all the kufirs got together, they still couldn’t stop this Ummah. We love Islam More than we love life
- From Bring Back Islam, by Soldiers of Allah
Peace out.
Posted by Marisol at November 12, 2006 1:13 AM
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Oh brother-hip hop and Islam. What a combo! It figures though.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 12, 2006 1:24 AM
Seduction through music -- it's the oldest trick in the book. Do they call it Hop-To Hislam?
Posted by: champ at November 12, 2006 2:02 AM
islam steals everything from the Infidels!
The hyprocacy from moslems knows no bounds!
I bet Thuggie Pooper and cair punks drive Infidel made cars and wear Infidel clothing!
Hey Pooper, did zarqawi get struck down because he was caught wearing Infidel shoes on video?
zawahiri is next, why?, because he wears western/infidel technology on his face!
Seriously folks, islam is nothing but a parasite on humanity!
Posted by: Infidel_Dog at November 12, 2006 2:09 AM
the problem with youth is they think with there emotions and not there brains and to promish some young adault male of 18+ yrars that if he goes on jihad and bececomes a martyer he will get 80 vergins to screew and all the booze he can drink and most young peaple still belive there indistructable and easylt brain washed by what there hear its not surprizing that muslim youth out of work with the feeling that its all western scocitys fault he's out of work never mind he dropped out of school to stuy the quran and seeing muhamad got rich off infidels slaving and stealing from them aka raiding plus protection money akajizha will think that kafer scocity should be living as dhimmi under muslim rule
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 12, 2006 2:13 AM
We love Islam More than we love life
- From Bring Back Islam, by Soldiers of Allah
1)I'm confused. I thought they loved death more than they love life. Does Islam move ahead of death in this creep's pecking order?
2)If bring back Islam refers to bringing it back to its origin then by all means please do. We certainly don't want it. Bring it back to cesspoolia as quickly as you can.
3)Infidel Dog is right-these losers take everything from the West. If the West ever runs out of ideas Islam will really be finished.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 12, 2006 2:41 AM
Rap music is so gawd damn awful. And the white American kids are the biggest buyers of this brain washing swill. Only natural that Mohammedans will exploit it same as they exploit prison ministries
Posted by: dennisw at November 12, 2006 5:56 AM
Does it occur to the pro-jihad rappers (whom Jihad Watch has most recently covered here) that there would be no rap or hip-hop without the cultural influence of the old Great Satan across the pond?
No, of course not. Indeed rap was invented by Muslims and Infidels only stole it from them. Such as everything ;-)
Recently a young Muslim told me, that Muslims invented scripture - (about 4.000 years before Mohammed was born).
What was most disturbing to me: he was not just boasting. He really believed it. Adam was Muslim and all good people later on - such as the Jewish prophets, Jesus and, for this guy, also the inventor of scripture - were Muslims, too.
Why should that not be applied to the unknown "inventor" of rap?
Posted by: Eisvogel at November 12, 2006 6:01 AM
Eisvogel, that sounds like falsification of history as we know it.
Posted by: EliasAlucard at November 12, 2006 6:36 AM
"I bet Thuggie Pooper and cair punks drive Infidel made cars..."
Can anyone think of even one (1) mohammedan car company? It's a wonder any of them can even figure out how to drive the things. After all, if allah wanted you to roll, he'd have given you wheels, no?
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 7:21 AM
It's not about whether you like or don't like hip hop. Cheap digs at a genre of music do nothing to combat the insidious influence of Islam on young people, whether its hip hop or any other music. The fact is that a lot of young people are very angry and very impressionable. There is simply a vacuum of values in the West; with the decline of Christianity and the perceived failure of democracy and globalisation, there is very little for young people to hold onto. There has to be a negative program illuminating the flaws, deception and medievalism of Islam, just as there has to be a positive program bringing to the fore a reevaluation of core values in the West. Sadly I see very little of that discussion taking place in this forum. Just bad mouthing Islam, which surely must just fuel the enemy and worse, the potentual Islamic recruits. Come on. We need to get more serious about this.
Posted by: exfidel at November 12, 2006 7:27 AM
"Just bad mouthing Islam..."
-- from a posting above
Is that all? Just "bad mouthing"? Never a hint of analysis? Not a scrap of intelligence at work?
Posted by: Hugh at November 12, 2006 7:33 AM
There is so much ignorance about Islam and Muslim countries in the comments here that it provides a good example of why the 'war on terror' is in such problems.
Eisenhund: I can think of two 'mohammedan' car companies: Proton en Perodua in Malaysia.
Islam does not ban music, that was something the taliban did in Afghanistan. Islamic music has a rich history and all Muslim countries have flourishing music industries with both male and female performers.
Youth in Muslim countries are by and large as plugged into modern culture as young people anywhere.
It is therefore logical that young Muslim musicians would also use the style of hip-hop given its roots as a modern form of protest music against oppression. Would you have felt or still feel the same way about Peter, Paul and Mary's protest music of the 60's.
A bit of education would go a long way.
Posted by: lennybruce at November 12, 2006 7:37 AM
Didn't the talibananas (the true Islamic state) ban any form of Music? Isn't Music restricted in SandiArabai?
I also thought Music is un-Islamic. One point is very clear, hypocrisy is very Islamic. If the Muslims do not like our way of living why the heck they don't f...off to many other countries where their dreams will be fulfilled instantly...
I saw my people they were smiling not grieving, I saw our kids they were safe they were breathing . . .
"my people" - I think this is racist, if these morons mean Muslims. Why can't we wack'em with our laws. Shut and done!
And no more talk of war and of bombs to drop, under Allah’s Shade and Shield and fearing not.
- Name us a single Muslim country 'under Allahs law where they not always talk about WAR'
I look around and all I see today is poverty and misery from systems ruling over me
- I agree if they talk about Muslim lands (Pakistan; Egypt; Algeria; etc)
with blasphemy.
-what is blasphemy, only concerns Muslims, so I don't give it scheiss!
Their tool, kufur rule it’s a catastrophe
- F...Off and no one is holding you, go and find non-kufur lands, there are enough, Pakistan; SandiArabia; Palastine etc....
Seriously folks, we got to get more serious to tackle the pathetic Islamic cult. It is evil, that much we all agree to, however, lets take these guys to the law for spreading racists propaganda...
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at November 12, 2006 8:17 AM
There’s a cancer upon our Mother Earth
That’s been growing since Mohammed’s birth.
There’s a name for this spreading tumor
in Arabic it’s called the Ummah
Satanic verses sent from hell
are transcribed in each new terror cell.
at November 12, 2006 8:18 AM
Didn't the talibananas (the true Islamic state) ban any form of Music? Isn't Music restricted in SandiArabai?
I also thought Music is un-Islamic. One point is very clear, hypocrisy is very Islamic. If the Muslims do not like our way of living why the heck they don't go..off to many other countries where their dreams will be fulfilled instantly...
I saw my people they were smiling not grieving, I saw our kids they were safe they were breathing . . .
"my people" - I think this is racist, if these morons mean Muslims. Why can't we wack'em with our laws. Shut and done!
And no more talk of war and of bombs to drop, under Allah’s Shade and Shield and fearing not.
- Name us a single Muslim country 'under Allahs law where they do not ALWAYS talk about WAR'
I look around and all I see today is poverty and misery from systems ruling over me
- I agree if they talk about Muslim lands (Pakistan; Egypt; Algeria; etc)
with blasphemy.
-what is blasphemy, only concerns Muslims, so I don't give a scheiss!
Their tool, kufur rule it’s a catastrophe
-Go.Off and no one is holding you, go and find non-kufur lands, there are enough, Pakistan; SandiArabia; Palastine etc....
Seriously folks, we got to get more serious to tackle the pathetic Islamic cult. It is evil, that much we all agree to, however, lets take these guys to the law for spreading racists propaganda...
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at November 12, 2006 8:19 AM
Everyone knows where hiphop and rap originated:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/08/top-that.html
Maybe their choice of movies contributes to why they are so pissed.
at November 12, 2006 8:22 AM
-lennybruce,
First of all, Malaysia has a significant non-mohammedan minority (could the latter have started the company?). Secondly, Proton neither designs nor engineers the major components of their vehicles. Thirdly, Daihatsu is a major shareholder in Proton (they're pretty good at all that engineering and such). If the difference between a company that produces automobiles and one that merely assembles them is beyond you, I could probably spell it out more clearly to you.
Unless you've been officially certified as "Smartest Guy in the World" you might want to watch your arrogant assessments of other people's educational levels.
A little humility on your part would go a long way, too.
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 8:31 AM
Maybe this will help open some eyes. Take a look at an article about Islam and human rights from Ismail Faruqi an renowned Islamic scholar and American university professor until his murder in Pennsylvania in 1986. A few excerpts:
This first 2 excerpts are good ones for supporters of the Military Commissions Act recently passed:
"No one may be tortured or put under duress to give witness or information under any circumstances. All matters flowing out of coercion, cheating or spying are null and void, and inadmissible as part of any legal process."
"The best witness is one given before it is asked for. No human may be tried in absentia or without hearing of defence."
On international relations:
"All humans, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, citizen or non-citizen resident or non-resident of the Islamic state, individuals or groups, are entitled to enter into a covenant of peace, mutual security and friendly relation with the Islamic state. Any human may plead any case in its shari'ah courts, seek and obtain permission to reside, to work and trade in peace and security within the Islamic state."
Over men and women:
"Both sexes are entitled to the names and identities given to them at birth, to equal education and full exercise of all religious, cultural, moral, social, economic, and political rights and duties under the law."
Over politics and law:
"Islamic law will not apply to them unless they themselves request such application. No human may be arrested or interned except under the laws of his millah (millah = one's own community) or under criminal laws of the shari'ah; and none may be subject to harassment or invasion of privacy by government officers."
If you want to read the whole article it is at
http://ismailfaruqi.net/content/view/28/2/
at November 12, 2006 8:42 AM
Eisenhund:
I guess you are also saying that Renault is no longer a French automobile company because they are partially owned by and share technology, design, production, marketing with Nissan. Or perhaps Chrysler is no longer an American automobile company because it does the same with Mercedes.
A bit less ethnocentricity would go a long way in this discussion.
Posted by: lennybruce at November 12, 2006 8:44 AM
There's a difference between sharing technology, and having someone else design things for you.
Once again, making assumptions you can't back up. You know nothing about my ethnicity, so dropping the "ethnocentricity" (racism) card is specious, at best.
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 8:57 AM
Youthful rebellion drives most music for high-school and college age consumers. You could almost consider it "counterculture for counterculture's sake." It's unlikely that most of these artists have done their homework in regard to Islamic doctrine, or thought through the ramifications of what living under sharia law would actually look like (whether they would be allowed to use samples and beats, for that matter).
In the larger context of the current Islamism problem, however, this kind of music serves, however incidentally, as another propaganda tool for jihadists. Artistically, there is little ideological opposition to Islam in the relativist, materialist west.
Posted by: Clive at November 12, 2006 8:57 AM
Muslims have appropriated rap and hip-hop because those converting to Islam are predominantly black, and rap & hip-hop is considered "black music". That music also has a well documented anti-police, anti-establishment message, which is ideal if you're recruiting to take down said establishment, especially among those who consider themselves victims of it (criminals in prison).
Any proclamation by Muslim recruiters of Muslim unity is a lie, of course. Just look to Sudan and Darfur, or most anywhere else in Africa, to see what Arab Muslims think of blacks.
Posted by: aynrandgirl at November 12, 2006 9:00 AM
-lennybruce,
In any case, this was a relatively small horse and it needs no further beating. I've already engaged in one off topic back-and-forth head butting session this week and do not seek to try Messrs. Spencer's and Fitzgerald's patience with another.
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 9:07 AM
lennybruce,
Your appeal to Ismail Faruqi is truly pathetic. One man's opinion (and if you read his texts carefully, they belie a lot) does not discount 1350 years of ideologically consistent jihad and dhimmitude. Are you going to appeal to Rumi next?
Do you even know what the shari'ah is?
Do you know what a hudnah is? Its duration limits and conditions?
Do you know what the relative value of the testimony of non-Muslims is in a shari'ah court?
Do you know what the relative value of a Muslim woman's testimony is in a shari'ah court?
People like you are always taking your empiric observations of the people you know or like and fantastically extrapolating them to redefine your reality. Wake up and look around you, study some history, quit imbibing every platitude someone is paid to propagandize you.
"modern form of protest music against oppression" -- that is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever read. You have bought lock, stock and barrel all the contrived Muslim "oppression" stories (just like the newly "radicalized" youth "protesting"), and not paused to investigate these claims or the way these types of claims have ALWAYS been used as pretense for aggression, starting with Mohammad himself.
at November 12, 2006 9:10 AM
Let's learn something about Proton and then I graciously give the final word to Eisenhund:
As a strategic component of Malaysia's Industrial Master Plan (IMP), PROTON's objectives include the development of indigenous research and development capabilities, world class manufacturing and production standards, design capabilities as well as a presence in the global market.
This continuous process of improvement and global competitiveness has produced one of the largest pools of trained and talented engineer in Malaysia, many of whom are specialized in diverse and highly-specialised areas including automotive, materials and design engineering.
Using the resources, technology, innovations, manpower and design capabilities either made available to or nurtured by PROTON, the national car project has made a significant impact in the automotive industry.
The investment into developing research and design capabilities-which includes the expertise of PROTON's wholly-owned subsidiary Lotus Engineering UK, one of the world's leading automotive engineering consultancy companies, has provided PROTON with an invaluable resource which has helped place the national car company at the forefront of the automotive industry.
PROTON's R&D facility in Shah Alam plays a strategic role in positioning the PROTON brand for the future and in facing challenges ahead, having already placed Malaysia as the region's dominant automotive force. It is also the only facility in the region with the capabilities of designing and manufacturing a car completely.
Large scale investments in R&D has also enabled PROTON to offer flexible services to suit individual needs. PROTON has so far invested a total of A$1.5 billion into R&D over the last five years and is expected to spend an additional A$1.8 billion in the next five years.
PROTON now buys less and less of foreign components and the latest PROTON GEN.2 for example, is built with more than 90 per cent local components. Being able to design and build its own engine, vehicle platform and car as a whole also enable PROTON to be competitive in terms of production cost and pricing of its products compared to when it was reliant on buying foreign components and was dependant on foreign expertise. Investments in R&D have more importantly given PROTON its independence as a car manufacturer where it must be able to design, engineer and build its own products in order to compete competitively globally.
Posted by: lennybruce at November 12, 2006 9:12 AM
Hip Hop or rap is the black man's protest music. Blacks will always be more sympathetic to islam, and therefore, easier targets, because islam positions itself opposite the West. And since the majority of blacks go through life with a grudge against white society, regardless of how successful they are, they will always be a soft spot in their hearts for anything anti-white, anti-western. Islam fits that bill. No wonder that islam spreads like wildfire in the prison system among the black inmates.
Bill Cosby comes to mind. The man has made hundreds of millions of dollars, but inside him burns resentment. He recently announced his plans to create a slavery museum. I kid you not. And he is asking for every American to pay $8 towards its construction. Why 8? Because, as he said, "8, if you turn it on its side, looks like a pair of shackles."
Islam will have no problem making inroads in the black community. Considering that blacks constitute about 12% of the US population, that is enough of a percentage to reach a tipping point.
Posted by: August22
at November 12, 2006 9:30 AM
August22; Whats wrong with a slavery museum?
Posted by: lennybruce at November 12, 2006 9:34 AM
Sup dawg? I'm gangstah fo' life, yo!
Posted by: EliasAlucard at November 12, 2006 9:38 AM
Well there you go. I've been answered and subsequently corrected.
He found one.
One nation out of 50+ members of the OIC, the one with 35% of its population non-mohammedan (and let's not even get into the whole wonderfully egalitarian Bumiputra system), can produce an automobile.
America and Japan had better watch out.
Thank you for so graciously allowing me the last word in our little exchange. I wasn't aware that you had been conferred moderator privileges.
Thus endeth the spitball fight.
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 9:45 AM
-americaningermany,
It'll might just end one way or another. Either you break off the friendship or her new beau could resolve the situation for you. After all, wouldn't look good to have his girlfriend consorting with Infidels, would it?
You could always put her in touch with Naseem. If conversing with her won't put someone off islam, I can't think of much else that will (well, actually I can, but I have to go to work on Monday).
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 9:59 AM
As far as this Proton discussion goes, the gist of it is this:
Proton borrowed technology from Japan, and is now engaged in borrowing technology from Germany. The company had to adopt a western business style in order to become a viable company. Indeed it has had success in a Muslim country, but obviously with no muslim business values attached to it. It just goes to prove that if muslim countries would simply abandon their 7th century cultures they might progress to a more modern state. Lenny Bruce has therefore proven Spencer's point. If other muslim countries would like to join the fellowship of nations and mankind, perhaps following suit vis a vis Malaysia, we could all benefit. Like the poor saps who actually happen to buy a Proton which looks like a pretty shabby hunk of dog feces that couldn't even match american safety standards.
and American n Germany, your best female friend will come to her senses as soon as that guy tries to put her in a bag and starts beating her.
at November 12, 2006 9:59 AM
Concerned citizen:
The answer to most of your questions is yes and to a few somewhat.
Do you know what habeas corpus is?
Do you know the difficulties many blacks have being allowed to exercise their vote in many USA counties?
Do you know who the world's largest per capita polluter is?
Do you know who the world's biggest arms dealer is?
Do you know who joins the USA in adorning the list of countries with the most capital punishments including of minors?
Shall I continue or just say, "Let he is without sin throw the first stone."
Posted by: lennybruce at November 12, 2006 10:01 AM
Lennybruce, I'll tell ya what's wrong with a slavery museum. It'll wind up being an America bashing forum with complete avoidance of any acknowledgement of slavery outside of the Western Hemisphere or Europe. This "museum" will probably blame slavery on the Jews.
Wait and see.
at November 12, 2006 10:04 AM
I have enjoyed this past hour of recreation. I wish you all a pleasant Sunday.
Peace, salaam and shalom
Posted by: lennybruce at November 12, 2006 10:04 AM
You too, lennybruce.
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 10:09 AM
lennybruce,
Thank you for identifying your real self-deprecatory self-annihilationist motivations. You excel only at moral equivolence.
You have "much ignorance about Islam and Muslim countries" in your posts.
Oh, and the answers to your irrelevant questions is, to all, and of course, yes.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at November 12, 2006 10:11 AM
People have been rappin' lyrics about the religion of peace for years. Always in a "stickin' up for the victim, you just don't understand " aspect. Go check out Public Enemys - "It Takes A Nation Of Millions" or on the Rap/Metal tip check out Rage Against The Machine tell me what you think of those lyrics. All that came out in the late 80s, early 90s. I was one of the stupid 20-some year olds that bought in that shit, until I my eyes opened. (However I cant deny the beats are powerful) All this stuff goin' on now was prevelant in the music scene just under 20 years ago. Anytime I mentioned anything to anyone, I was never taken seriously. I would love to get a list of all of the charities that have been at say a "Lollapalooza concert" just to see how much of the money came back on 911. If you go by the music biz in the previous 20 yrs, tough times are ahead.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at November 12, 2006 10:15 AM
China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, have more executions than the United States.
China, more than twenty time the amount, and possibly more undocumented. LennyBruce, you can only rag on America because you know you have the freedom of speech to do that. You try espousing your rhetoric in those other countries listed here and you may end up a statistic in Amnesty International.
Secondly, when China and India progress even further into industrialization, I think they will far out perform the US as polluters, and you can guarantee they will be centuries from doing anything about it, greenwise.
you should really try to point your hatred somewhere else where people are killed for talking the way you do. And not towards the country/culture that gives you the right to make such statements.
Posted by: Tomilio at November 12, 2006 10:15 AM
The problem with applying the casting of stones bit is that the other side doesn't get their plays from the same book.
Not to mention the fact that a helluva lot more metaphorical stones come our way than go the other way. Really big ones. With lotsa sharp, jagged edges.
Me, I only throw stones when I run out of ammo in the calibur of whatever firearm I happen to have handy.
Posted by: Eisenhund at November 12, 2006 10:17 AM
If you have not seen it here is an example of Muslim Rap. It is pretty disturbing.
at November 12, 2006 10:18 AM
It is ironic, that hip-hop; considered a bastion of contemporary pop music; is used by Islam because it is considered non-musical enough to skirt by the prohibitions on music in Islamic thought. It figures that Islam would find a Mozart Symphony or a Bach Cantata more offensive than gangsta rap.
Posted by: Monkeywho at November 12, 2006 10:20 AM
Lennybruce - Read this opinion from Ibrahim Desai.
Here's the website: http://islam.tc/ask-imam/mufti.shtml
Is Islamic rap songs with music accepted? It is reviving muslims around the world! So what can be wrong?
Answer 12940 2004-10-14
Music has been condemned strongly in the Qur’aan and Hadith. In Surah Luqmaan, Allah Ta’ala states, ‘And from mankind are those that purchase futile speech in order to mislead others from the path of Allah.’
Under the commentary of this verse, ibn Abbaas [Radhiallaahu anhu] states, ‘futile speech’ refers to music and things related to it. (Durrul Manthoor vol.5 pg.307). In Surah Israaeel, Allah Ta’ala states, ‘And excite any of whom you can with your voice.’ Imaam Mujaahid mentions, ‘voice’ refers to music. (Roohul Ma’aani)
Nabi [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] mentions, ‘There will be people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful fornication, wearing of silk, wine and the use of musical instruments.’ (Bukhaari vol.2 pg.837). Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] states, ‘A group of my Ummah will drink wine calling it by other than its real name. merry will be made for them through the playing of musical instruments and by the singing of females. Allah will cleave the earth under them and turn them into apes and swines.’ (Abu Dawud vol.2 pg.519)
Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] further mentions, ‘Music grows hypocrisy in the heart just as water causes crops to grow.’ (Bayhaqi vol.10 pg.222). Thus, even conceding that there is benefit in such songs, the fact that music is clearly and expressly condemned in the Qur’aan and Hadith would make such songs Haraam.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best, Mufti Ebrahim Desai
I suggest you contact the Mufti and tell him how wrong he is and how he is hijacking Islam. Until you can convince Islamic leadership that Lennybruce knows all there is to know about everything, I think you should shut your pie hole.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 12, 2006 10:25 AM
Here is one solution:
We need to starting promoting the positive contributions that Western culture and civilization have made to the world. This needs to be done at home, and eventually in the higher academic levels.
My contribution of the day.
Peace.
Posted by: Monkeywho at November 12, 2006 10:35 AM
Sorry "have" should be "has."
Posted by: Monkeywho at November 12, 2006 10:36 AM
A common theme in rap and Hip-Hop encourages disrespect of civil authority (esp. the murder of police officers) and endorses violent physical abuse of women , homosexuals and other weaker members of society. Guns and knife violence are encouraged.
Perfect for Islamic expression , then .
at November 12, 2006 10:41 AM
Everyone knows where hiphop and rap originated:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/08/top-that.html
Maybe their choice of movies contributes to why they are so pissed.
Hilarious, Tomilio!
Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at November 12, 2006 10:46 AM
all of yall have got it wrong/
stating that "rap is from the devil"/
its like u all been hittin that bong/
so im going to weigh in and make it level/
rap music can be godly friend/
dont take ur predispositions in/
you know that God aint a racist then/
why cant God can use rap? nah man it aint sin/
You see there are alot of christians out there/
who are lifting up the Lord/
when you criticise rap and not another/
you are judging without a true accord/
You see rap is just like poetry/
it can be read slow or fast/
talk about Jesus and how he set me free/
and then all eternity the song will last/
muhammed was a false prophet/
and all infidels know/
cause he raided tribes for profit/
and theres other ways to know/
Jesus warned of the wolf in sheeps clothing/
He warned us many times/
muhammed denied that Jesus is the Son/
thus a false prophet to me he shines/
woe unto him and the followers thereof/
his religion makes me sick/
turn from allah "shake the monkey off"/
Jesus is the Messiah man please dont be thick/
you see we are sick in our sin/
since the day of our birth/
and every day without the blood covering/
the judgments only gunna be worse/
so turn to the messiah/
He is the only one to save ya/ bruh
muhammed doesnt love ya/ nah
matter of a fact he would probably kill u/ ah
yeah thats right Jesus is the Christ/
He is the only way and the life/
dont bother with your strife/
just let Jesus change you life/
God bless
Posted by: W_D_J_D at November 12, 2006 10:47 AM
americaningermany,
Ask her if she is aware of the Al-Qaeda "playbook", and its admonitions to dress and act as westerners. Ask her how this man's external behaviour is any different from the 9-11 hijackers who went out drinking at strip bars to allay suspicion. Maybe she could fix him a nice pork chop dinner, then go to visit his family in Gambia.
Is she aware they have Shar'ia there? That polygamy is not only OK, but rampant?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at November 12, 2006 10:48 AM
Blacks have trouble casting votes in the USA? Yeah just like the blacks in New Orleans were forced by whitey to buy property in a giant hole in the ground surrounded by water, and then, when the water starts to rise sit there waiting for the guvment babysitter to show up and save them. Explain their pathetic behavior in Africa, why have they made nothing out of that continent? Because they are racists who steal land from white farmers who are trying to grow something to feed them, and then cry about the fact they have no food to eat, maybe. Oh that’s right, that’s too easy, it must be whitey again. I will bet through ignorance or stupidity the blacks will give away their vote and enter a new era of slavery before their 50th anniversary of getting the vote in the first place. Go back to your lll freak show we have more important things to do here. Why, in such a large world do these fools insist on following us around? By the way, if you stay in school and learn, you might be able to read as well as comprehend the ballot. Quit blaming whitey for all your shortcomings, ever heard of work? It’s what you do to make your own money. No I am not talking armed robbery, drug dealing or prostitution, criminal; behavior doesn’t count.
Posted by: tgusa at November 12, 2006 10:51 AM
tgusa,
Click on lennybruce's name in his post, and you will see HE is a "whitey". "White guilt" run amok and seeking redemption through civilizational suicide.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at November 12, 2006 10:59 AM
I thought that the discussion was about rap music being used as a lure to attract weak minded recruits. Anyway, before I get accused of picking and choosing dealers in Islamic opinion that support my statements, here's another opinion form another website:
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=1036&ln=eng&txt=music
Question:
When we want to attract Christians to Islam, is it permissible to use religious songs accompanied by music? Is it permissible to have a group called a religious group because they sing religious songs accompanied by musical instruments?
Answer: Praise be to Allaah.
In my opinion there is no need to attract people in this manner; you should use permissible means such as listening to Qur’aan with proper tajweed and tarteel (correct recitation) and listening to eloquent ahaadeeth which move the listener, and beneficial, moving poems (qaseedahs) and nasheeds. You can also provide clear proof of what is good about Islam and explain its teachings and noble aims which will demonstrate that it is the religion that befits the natural inclinations of man (deen al-fitrah) and encompasses all the interests of mankind. Whoever can only be attracted by things that include forbidden elements such as singing, instruments and music is no good and I do not think that he can be attracted to Islam at all. And Allaah knows best.
Italics are mine.
at November 12, 2006 11:04 AM
I just now found where Lenny B. bailed out about an hour ago. Too bad, he's such an easy target.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 12, 2006 11:11 AM
Concerned Citizen,
Yes, I could smell it through the screen. I have a few black families in my neighborhood. They vote w/o any trouble whatsoever. Of course these are people who decided to make something of themselves, something they can be proud of. Yep, that is why the smart ones flock to our areas. They want to raise their kids in relative safety, they want to go to work and not come home to a burgled house, they want their kids to go to school where the teachers can teach and not worry about guns being shoved in their faces. I can’t say as I blame them.
poetcomic1, save you racist smear tactics for retared people, it is not going to fly here.
Posted by: tgusa at November 12, 2006 11:17 AM
Jeff M
Followed your link . Truly Disturbing . I encourage all who read these comments to acquaint themselves with what we are facing by following the same link . Video is in French but the message is crystal clear .
WDJD ... Good rap ! Of course there is a righteous usage of every musical genre - no genre is of itself either good or evil - but why is it only the wicked messages are ever heard on MTV ? Maybe the devil really does have the best tunes , or at least the influence over which are promoted .
at November 12, 2006 11:30 AM
" . . . blue-collar worker, white-collar worker, yacht skipper, electrician, businessman, farmer, soldier, medic, caterer..."
Can't keep a job, eh?
Posted by: Pelayo at November 12, 2006 12:14 PM
And now I shall ***bad mouth islam***
I look around and all I see today is poverty and misery from systems ruling over me with blasphemy. Their tool, kufur rule it’s a catastrophe
Heh heh,
Let's see now, they moved to the land of the "kufur", and now they are bitching. The door swings both ways, go back to Pakistan or KSA or wherever.
Then you can enjoy total restriction on your life, refreshing...ahhhhh.
at November 12, 2006 12:34 PM
lennybruce,
I can see you are a white man from your profile picture. Why oh why are you so protective of a religion that will surely kill you first if they ever rule?
You must be an admirer of Lenny Bruce to take his name as a moniker, do you actually think he would be tolerated in islam?
at November 12, 2006 12:41 PM
zonie kafir,
“You are a moron”.
I had those exact words in my original post but removed them. I didn’t want to denigrate morons by linking them to lb. Thanks.
I find the racism line hilarious, through my life my Dads older Sister an artist, teacher and notorious do-gooder, would, when she wasn’t spending years in Africa helping out these poor people, recount to me all the wonderful things that were being accomplished there. From my youngest days I can still remember her stories.
at November 12, 2006 12:45 PM
Well basically in African nations (and most thirld world nations)like Gambia, there is a whole different dynamic to the man-woman relationship. It is not egalitarian like the west where the man and woman are essentially equal, but the woman is subservient to the man who dominates the relationship. Some western women find this a nice change from what they are used to, and a turn on early in the relationship, but as the man ratchets up the domination aspect with time, it's often to late to get out of the relationship without difficulties. By the way, violence against women in relationships is not really ostracized in those cultures either like it is in the west.
Posted by: godfreyofbouillon at November 12, 2006 12:47 PM
Just as the West used Islam to fight the USSR in Afganistan, no doubt their are anti-Western elements (outside of Islam) that are using this soft underbelly of Europe and the USA against them. And why shouldn't they? If they can weaken our Western societies, then there is less competition, more profit for them.
The question for me is, who is fighting these enemies?
Posted by: ReligionofPeas at November 12, 2006 1:27 PM
lennybruce said:
"Islamic music has a rich history and all Muslim countries have flourishing music industries with both male and female performers."
Oh really? Then maybe you can explain to me why my singing arias from my favourite operas while gardening has caused more than one local Muslim man to shout at me to stop singing in front of men? If he was offended at my missing the high C, I could understand that. However, my warbling 'Un bel dì vedremo' or 'Ebben? Ne andrò lontana' shouldn't cause such rage. I'm no Renata Tebaldi, but my attempts aren't completely without charm.
Then, lennybruce claimed:
"All humans, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, citizen or non-citizen resident or non-resident of the Islamic state, individuals or groups, are entitled to enter into a covenant of peace, mutual security and friendly relation with the Islamic state. Any human may plead any case in its shari'ah courts, seek and obtain permission to reside, to work and trade in peace and security within the Islamic state."
I cannot tell you how happy I am to learn this. Can you please remind Hezbollah that they should allow the two missing Israelis kidnapped by Hezbollah to pleas their case in a shaaria court? We all miss them and would like to have them returned at once. It would show the peaceful and friendly side of Islam, now, wouldn't it?
Honestly, I can see why he chose the name he's using here. The guy really is a comedian. Is anyone else laughing?
at November 12, 2006 1:33 PM
August22; Whats wrong with a slavery museum?
Posted by: lennybruce [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 12, 2006 09:34 AM
Let's see one put up by a Muslim in a Muslim country in remembrance of the millions of black Africans (and castrated and horribly abused), Asians, Slavs, and Europeans enslaved throughout its history. I doubt we will ever see such, since Muslims do not have the profoundly thriving culture of self-examination and self-criticism that the modern West has.
In every major bookstore, public library and university library throughout the US, you will find millions of books -- popular, coffee-table, and scholarly -- delving into detail about the dirty laundry of American history, from our treatment of Indians, to black slavery, to how J. Edgar Hoover wore women's dresses -- you name it. American television, movies and pop music have also similarly participated in this culture of self-examination and self-criticism. Islamic societies, by contrast, do everything they can to maintain a willful, childish and truculent state of denial about their mistakes and bad deeds.
In the West, we air our dirty laundry; in the Muslim world, they wear it on their heads.
at November 12, 2006 2:11 PM
Rap has no art. Rap is fake music. Rap has no arrangement, no tonality, no rythym, no beat, no song, no nothing.
Rap is a prearranged outcome, a pile of nothing propped up by excuses and reasons why not.
Rap is the perfect vehicle for Islam, sharing with it all these fine qualities.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 12, 2006 2:27 PM
"Do they really think their rights as recording "artists" and adherents of hip-hop culture would be so respected under the Sharia law they advocate?"
The problem with Muslims and Islam is: they don't seem to care, or be capable of thinking this out rationally. They fervently espouse Islam as the be all end all "final solution" for everything -- and insanely seem to imagine that jets, cell phones, computers, and nuclear technology are simply Allah's gift for them to manipulate, exploit, and usurp in order to further Islam.
They also seem utterly unconcerned and contemptuous of the culture, intellect, and hard work by non-Muslims who brought these modern day miracles into existence.
Islam is clearly an insanity based belief system, based on the rantings of a completely damaged lunatic, embraced and promoted by a barbaric Arab tribal culture of repression, dehumanizing hatred, and the degradation of the soul.
Posted by: jsla at November 12, 2006 2:37 PM
And I will add that Islam is the largest and most enduring crime against humanity that has ever been perpetrated.
Posted by: jsla at November 12, 2006 2:39 PM
Rap? Nothing new.
Listen to some Johnny Cash, i.e. “A Boy Named Sue or Ring of Fire”. He had some talent, and he made us laugh, cry or just plain think. Copycats pretending they made it up.
at November 12, 2006 2:46 PM
I thought that music was forbidden in Islam..?
Posted by: Crusader at November 12, 2006 2:47 PM
@americaningermany
..you should dearly warn your friend and hope all the best,
..it seems to be an industry in Gambia, I personally know of 2 cases with Gambian men ( both in Germany) over the last 18 months. They both began very tolerant (alcohol consumption,etc.), but as soon as the men had their girls talked into marrying them they became stern muslim men, did their time until the reception of German nationality and passport, and then travelled with wife to their homecountry to show off. (the homecountry was the very place they had left to seek refuge in Germany in the first place.) Upon return to Germany they divorced their wives, keeping the German nationality, und travelled once again to Gambia, this time to marry the girl that was promised to them in their youth. After returning to Germany the men used the "Family Unification Act" to bring home their Gambian wifes..
(few more muslims, and no-one noticed)
at November 12, 2006 3:01 PM
On another musical genre, metal followers may have noted Slayer's most recent offering, the album; "Christ Illusion." I'm not a big fan of Slayer myself (most fans of Jesus aren't) but this one caught my eye because it apparently had a song on there entitled "Jihad."
At long last, I thought, after years of pillorying Christianity the world of metal may now turn its attention to Islam. If anybody in that field could do it, surely it would be those dinosaurs of death metal; Slayer. So, are they genuinely and antireligious? In life, perhaps, but in the context of this album certainly not. The specifically anti-Christian rhetoric is unusally high, even by Slayer's standards. Aside from the title of the song and some words which ('tho they may be recognizable to JWers) weren't even directly lifted from the Koran.
Very disappointing. I can appreciate that there are many generally antitheisic people who regard all religions as wrong or even harmful but that's like saying all political ideologies are dangerous. Even if its just liberal democracy (or secular humanism) you still have to pick one.
Posted by: Razorskarr at November 12, 2006 4:45 PM
From the Article:
"...I saw our kids they were safe they were breathing . . . And no more talk of war and of bombs to drop, under Allah’s Shade and Shield and fearing not. No more bleeding due scheming dogs on thrones, whom plot with foes to spread woes, the stench of rot."
It seems to me that, even if the entire world were converted to Islam, Muslims would continue to fight other Muslims. It's in their cultish nature.
So, evidently, neither the Shia nor the Sunni won in the end...
I guess the Muslims lost the war and, "Allah's Shade and Shield and fearing not" is just a way of saying that they finally all killed themselves and are now hangin' out with Allah!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at November 12, 2006 4:58 PM
W_D_J_D,
Great Rap! Did you write that? If so, sign me up for a CD when you release it!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at November 12, 2006 5:03 PM
From one of the most influential Muslim clerics in the world today, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi of the most prestigious Islamic university in the Muslim world, Al Azhar University in Cairo: Sheikh Qaradawi "permits" music, but only under certain "conditions and terms". If lennybruce can't see the repugnant idiocy of having "conditions and terms" under which music is "permitted", then he is indeed lost in his PC disease.
* * *
Conditions and Terms:
There are some conditions and terms that should be observed regarding listening to singing, as follows:
1. Not all sorts of singing are permissible. Rather, the permissible song should comply with the Islamic teachings and ethics. Therefore, the songs praising the tyrants and corrupt rulers disagree with Islamic teachings. In fact, Islam stands against transgressors and their allies, and those who show indifference to their transgression. So, the same goes for those songs that imply giving praises to such attitude!
2. Also, the way the song is performed weighs so much. The theme of the song may be good, but the performance of the singer – through intending excitement and arousing others' lusts and desires along with trying to seduce them – may move it to the area of prohibition, suspicion or even detest. The Glorious Qur'an addresses the wives of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) saying, “O you wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech." (Al-Ahzab: 32) So, one has to show caution to music when there is softness of speech accompanied with rhyme, melody, and special effects!
3. Singing should not be accompanied with something that is prohibited such as alcohol, nakedness, mixing of men with women that is common in pubs and nightclubs, etc.
4. Islam has declared excessiveness as prohibited in everything. The same goes for excessiveness in leisure and recreation even though these things are permissible ! This indicates that the emptiness of the mind and heart has to be observed and tackled during man's short-term life. One should know that Allah Almighty will ask every one about his life and his youth in particular.
There are some things in which one is to be his own judge and Mufti. If there is some kind of singing that arouses his own lust or desire, and takes him away from the real life, he should avoid it then and block that very gate from which the winds of trial and seduction may come and erase his religion, morals and heart. If he does this, he will live in peace and tranquility.
http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/misc/music_in_islam.asp
at November 12, 2006 5:24 PM
No, let’s not have any nakedness or mixing of Men and Women. Well, at least not until they get to Heaven and the lust and depravity start, right after they receive their 72 virgin’s as their reward for murder. Ok, something is seriously wrong with that philosophy but I can’t put my finger on it. If someone told me that I would have to say, are you s******g me? Nothing in the universe is going to provide 72 virgins to even one of us guys for anything. They will let you have music, under strict guidelines that you better follow. Obey the rules and you still might end up with your door kicked in at 3 am, the music police wanting to make sure you aren’t secretly, quietly(gasp) humming to yourself or listening to music.
Posted by: tgusa at November 12, 2006 5:55 PM
Its really ironic that these groups are singing the praise's of allah - Singing?? Islam doesn't allow singing, dancing, picture art.
He "dreamt of a state we made - a place with purpose and meaning". Pardon me but I was not aware that the Islamic countries had lost their rule. And whats this about, Muslims cann't have their purpose and meaning, someone is preventing them from choosing Islam, practicing Islam in Islamic countries??? or anywhere???
Then theres the line " his people smiling not griving and no more talk of war". Who may I ask started this war??? who tells children to blow themselves up???(and mothers who state they are happy their sons and daughters do this??) Who proclaims loudly, it is better to die in the name of allah than to live???
"I look around and see poverty, misery from systems ruling over me with blasphemy" - " their tool kurfur rule its a catastrophe"
Seventy-four + trillion dollars have changed hands in the last 50-60 years. We the west and all the oil consumming countries of the world have paid the price. Its the biggest exchange of wealth ever.
If theres poverty, grieving, misery, I ask why??
Seventy-four trillion + dollars, and the people aren't smiling, living in paradise, with every good thing available, why????
It was spent on war, because of the systems ruling over who?? Seventy-four + trillion dollars, who's ruling who??
Is there anyone (who's not a Muslim) really out there that believes that if everyone became a Muslim the whole world would be at peace??? That poverty, grief, misery would be done away with???
Is there anyone really (whos not a Muslim) that believes we are preventing them from believing in and practicing their Islamic faith???
In the name of allah, mohammed, the koran, they have choosen to murder women, children, men. They blow people up, cut their heads off, destroy buildings. They chose to start the war, they chose to continue the war. They claim it is their highest purpose in life. And why, because we are not Muslims, we choose not to believe in Islam, and that means we don't have the right to live freely, with economic gain, to worship how we chose, to live our lives openly in the pursut of happiness.
Muslims have murdered men, women, and children have raped the world to the tune of seventy-four trillion + dollars in wealth, and their not happy?? What can one say
at November 12, 2006 7:41 PM
Muslims have murdered men, women, and children have raped the world to the tune of seventy-four trillion + dollars in wealth, and their not happy?? What can one say
Posted by: Aprilyn at November 12, 2006 07:41 PM
Of course they're not happy-they are victims. Victims of the Crusades. Victims of oppression. Victims of imperialism. Victims of Zionist plots.
Victims of the Great Satan. Victims of misunderstanding. Plus, people like us haven't converted yet or have managed to keep their heads attached to their bodies. These things are simply intolerable to these intolerant losers. If they capture the whole world they might actually undertake a scientific endeavor to go to other planets just to keep on bringing the words of Mr. Perfect to other beings who might be out there. After all, the whole universe belongs to Allah and his minions so it'll be off to Mars to either convert or kill whoever might be there.
What a bunch of lunatics.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 12, 2006 8:11 PM
tgusa -
Yeah -- why do Muslims condemn a lustful lifestyle here on earth, but in heaven it's ok? Huh.
It boggles the mind that a rational human being could think that they would be rewarded with sex for self-murder and by taking the life of innocents -- and to make it even MORE absurd -- they believe that they are rewarded by a JUST God! Double-Huh.
I have spent countless hours trying to figure this one out, so I feel your pain, my friend.
Posted by: champ at November 12, 2006 9:51 PM
Interestingly, Slayer's lead singer claims to be Christian, and that the anti-Christian rhetoric in Slayer's songs are simply "what sells". You may also recall the murders and church burnings in Norway by anti-Christian (pagan, not Muslim) black metal fans. Fortunately, I don't think Muslims are likely to use metal as a recruiting tool, because it's hard to convince its nearly all-white audience that they're being oppressed, and because I'd bet most any imam would sanction murdering infidels long before they'd ever sanction recruiting them via Slayer.
Posted by: aynrandgirl at November 12, 2006 9:54 PM
let us not kid ourselves; why do you think rappers in the US are always saying "Hallah"?
Posted by: enough is enough at November 12, 2006 10:55 PM
Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they are. Just as sitting in the garage doesn't make me a car.
You will know them 'by their fruit', and we all know what a car looks like.
Posted by: champ at November 12, 2006 11:11 PM
W_D_J_D,
Great Rap! Did you write that? If so, sign me up for a CD when you release it!
(Doctor Bulldog) at November 12, 2006 05:03 PM
lolz yeah i wrote it on the spot...no edits...
cd? lolz ill never get a record label to look at me!
check out these christian rappers.........
www.myspace.com/lecrae
www.myspace.com/triplee116
www.myspace.com/crossmovementrecords
www.myspace.com/kj52
God bless yall!
at November 13, 2006 12:02 AM
aynrandgirl,
Tom Araya's statement of faith is news to me (and needless to say I didn't exactly pick him for one) and I think champ's right although it must be said that Mr. Araya's relationship with God is between the two of them and is not for me to comment on. If God can forgive the shitty things that I've done then I don't see why Tom whould be denied His grace (or "locked out of Heaven" to use his words).
I guess the point I'd like to make concerning metal is that if the lyrics of a band like Slayer or Deicide were performed, exactly the same but with the a few word substitutions, i.e.:
- change "God" to "Allah"
- change "Christian/s" to "Muslim/s"
- change "Jesus/Christ" to "Mohammed"
Can anybody imagine if a band were going around (i.e.: touring internationally & selling albums) with song titles like "Lunatic of Allah's Creation," "Bastard of Mohammed," "Kill the Muslim" or "Death to Mohammed?" I don't think it would be well received.
Thanks for your comment (and getting me 'round to making my overly-laboured point) I think you're observations are quite correct.
Posted by: Razorskarr at November 13, 2006 12:24 AM
exfidel you wrote:
The fact is that a lot of young people are very angry and very impressionable. There is simply a vacuum of values in the West; with the decline of Christianity and the perceived failure of democracy and globalisation, there is very little for young people to hold onto. There has to be a negative program illuminating the flaws, deception and medievalism of Islam, just as there has to be a positive program bringing to the fore a reevaluation of core values in the West. Sadly I see very little of that discussion taking place in this forum. Just bad mouthing Islam, which surely must just fuel the enemy and worse, the potentual Islamic recruits. Come on. We need to get more serious about this.
___________________________________________
You wrote there is a huge vacuum of values in the West. Indeed. And what exactly is replacing it? On one of my son's computer magazines, Wired:
"There is no heaven or hell. Atheism. The new religion of science!"
And in this article it stated that one day Christians will be ashamed to even admit they believe in God.
Such fertile ground for something like Islam to breed and take hold.
Not all religions are the same. Yet so many people believe this to be true. They are very set in their ways. No amount of research or proof will sway their minds. Why? Because in their opinion Christians and all other religions are the same and the world would be a better place without all of them. Yet they are willing to buy into the lie that Islam is oppress by the West and all other religions.
They are blinded by their own ignorance. So exactly how does one tackle that?
To even say that there is something wrong with Islam ....one gets greeted with being called a bigot, wanting another crusade, looking for something to hate. Which is not true (at least on my part). Even asking them to at least look into it...the standard reply is this:
What for? It is only a few extremists and look at the United States and all the crimes we have committed. Look at the horrors at what Christianity has wrought!!
Solutions...I can only educate myself and the few who are willing to at least hear me out.
at November 13, 2006 5:03 AM
Suz
When I get faced with that same PC BS I just ask them when we should destroy all the libraries close all the theaters, music stores start rounding up gays for execution and legalize pedophilia. I normally get a blank stare and simply say “welcome to islam”. I then write down this web addy and similar websites and hand it to them. Let them look for themselves when they get time. I have done this for years and now I have some of those anti western thinkers calling me to tell what the muslims are attempting to pull. The word is getting out slowly and surely. One of the local Baptist churches here in Tampa did an entire sermon yesterday proving once and far all to the congregation that allah and God can not be the same entity as they have completely opposite belief systems and demands on their respective flocks. All it took to shock the congregation was comparing verse for verse. My neighbor was telling me about it as she attends the church and was one of the ones who formally thought all religions were the same. Moving next to me woke her up. She now practices a faith and helps spread the word about islams true goals and practices. So you see their is hope, imagine the impact that single hour will have on the hundreds of Baptists will have, today, all of them will go to schools, work, to see family and friends and simply talk about what they heard. Now they are armed with a speck of knowledge and will pass that along. I think it is a good start. Last year few churches would have given such a sermon.
at November 13, 2006 7:39 AM
lennybruce asks:
"It is therefore logical that young Muslim musicians would also use the style of hip-hop given its roots as a modern form of protest music against oppression. Would you have felt or still feel the same way about Peter, Paul and Mary's protest music of the 60's.The problem with PP&W's protest music is that it is white music performed by white people, and therefore inherently racist and oppressive, even when seemingly protesting white evils. The harmonic structure of PP&W's music, it's melodic lines, modulations, et cetera -- even musical notation itself -- all are part of the oppressive racist superstructure of white music which arrogantly holds itself above the other's own indigenous music. (And PP&W are pikers compared to the musical holocaust represented by such white western genocidaires as Mozart, Beethoven, and (shudder) Wagner.)
For protest music to be truly authentic it must liberate itself entirely from all taint of western influence. Rap music is well on the way to this ideal, but still depends far too much on rhythmic logic and language skills. A better form of protest music would be computer-generated random noise, although even there you are dealing in oppressive white sound waves.
The ideal anti-white-western protest anti-music would be stone-dead silence. In fact this has already been done by composer John Cage in his work, 4'33" -- four minutes and 33 seconds of silence. You can "listen" to it hear.
Unfortunately, John Cage is a white man.
Posted by: Zeno at November 13, 2006 8:02 AM
americaningermany,
I think you are dealing with major sarcasm i.e. Zeno. Unless you know something I don’t.
at November 13, 2006 11:04 AM
This assessment of "hip hop" aka Rap is likely true.
But don't ask me.
The stuff from a musical perspective is so vile to me that all I have to say is that if I had to listen to THAT for any length of time I'd probably go out and shoot somebody too (the way the "rapsters" do)!
Posted by: pythagoras at November 13, 2006 3:09 PM
"...oppressive white sound waves..." LOL. That's really quite good...
Posted by: jsla at November 13, 2006 4:17 PM
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