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Better late than never, but if they had been reading Jihad Watch, they would have known that for three years now. "Qaeda Leaders Losing Sway Over Militants, Study Finds," by Mark Mazzetti in the New York Times, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
WASHINGTON, Nov. 14 — As radical Islam spreads globally through online forums and chat rooms, a group of obscure Arab religious thinkers may come to exert more influence over the jihadist movement than Osama bin Laden and other well-known leaders of Al Qaeda, a research group at the United States Military Academy has concluded.In a study billed as the “first systematic mapping” of an ideology sometimes called jihadism, the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point has found that Mr. bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, have had a relatively minor influence on the movement’s intellectual foundation. Among the network’s ideologists, they have come to be seen more as propagandists than strategic thinkers.
And while the two Qaeda leaders have released a flurry of video and audio messages to their followers over the past year, the study found that the scholarly work of a group of Saudi and Jordanian clerics — most notably Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi, a Jordanian — seems more likely to influence the next generation of Islamic militants.
As a result, the authors found, the death or capture of Mr. bin Laden and Mr. Zawahri would do little to slow the spread of jihadist ideology.
“It would be a blow in terms of the emotional impact, but in terms of the larger movement that the foot soldiers are being recruited into, it wouldn’t put much of a dent into it at all,” said William McCants, the chief author of the new report, “The Militant Ideology Atlas.”
The 382-page report, a kind of who’s who of the global jihadist movement, examines the most influential and widely read texts among the thousands of tracts in Al Qaeda’s online library, known as the Tawhed.
With the dismantling of the Qaeda hierarchy that existed on Sept. 11, 2001, and the diffusion of the jihadist movement into smaller, more localized cells, the Tawhed has gained new significance in helping to shape militant thought.
American officials say they fear that the next generation of terrorist attacks could be carried out not by militants trained in Al Qaeda camps but by fighters influenced by radical texts posted online....
The report found that radical Islam, sometimes called Salafism, is so deeply embedded in the Arab world that Salafis now constitute a “majority or significant portion” of the Muslim population in the Middle East and North Africa.
“Western governments have neither the local credibility nor the cultural expertise necessary to diminish the popularity of Salafism,” the study found.
Posted by Robert at November 15, 2006 2:10 PM
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"As a result, the authors found, the death or capture of Mr. bin Laden and Mr. Zawahri would do little to slow the spread of jihadist ideology."
Of course it would have no effect.
Islam has enough hate and quest for domination to continue indefinately.
If you cut the head off a worm, it justs grows a new head.
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at November 15, 2006 2:18 PM
Oh, geez...they're just figuring that out NOW?
I feel so very safe. NOT!
When, oh, when will we get some real leadership? I must admit Robert, watching you speak at the Heritage Foundation, another's poster's query asking you when you would run did go through my mind. You'd certainly be a good one-issue candidate!
And I laughed when you had the change, in reply to a question, to raise your finger and say, "When I'm elected.....". LOL!
Posted by: Vee at November 15, 2006 2:21 PM
Yeah, I don't know what took them so long to figure that one out!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at November 15, 2006 2:22 PM
1)They get it? Finally? Good.
2)I still wouldn't mind seeing those two bastards dead. The sooner the better.
3)We'd better get a handle on that next generation of scum and start zapping them right away. Don't let them have a chance to develop a following. If you can't kill the dandelions in one shot you can still get them one at a time.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 15, 2006 2:23 PM
No it has no effect on islamofasicsts because they want their 72 whores...er...virgins. Its a sex thing like Michael Coren found out by talking to an ex-jihadist:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013911.php
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 15, 2006 2:23 PM
This news is not a confidence builder.
Posted by: champ at November 15, 2006 2:27 PM
The Pot is boiling now. there is no way to turn the heat off . Radical Islam has to be utterly stamped into the Earth for it to go away. we need to wake up to what we need to do. Our enemies have 100 times more resolve than us.
Posted by: DUGGY at November 15, 2006 2:32 PM
DUGGY right on.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 15, 2006 2:34 PM
This Army study is the best argument against allowing Muslim immigration to the West. Every Muslim is Salafist recruit in waiting. End all Muslim immigration NOW!!!
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at November 15, 2006 2:50 PM
From the Article:
"The report found that radical Islam, sometimes called Salafism, is so deeply embedded in the Arab world that Salafis now constitute a “majority or significant portion” of the Muslim population in the Middle East and North Africa.
“Western governments have neither the local credibility nor the cultural expertise necessary to diminish the popularity of Salafism,” the study found."
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, the way to win this war is to kill them all???
It didn't take a 382 page report to convince me of that - just 9/11!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
at November 15, 2006 2:57 PM
How will it take to learn that Islam is best described as mass psychosis, not as a religion or political movement with a traditional leadership that can be eliminated. Islam must be handled as the pandemic it is:
1) Diagnosis: Name the problem for what it is. No other group gets a free pass for intolerance and promulgation of hatred. Islam gets no special treatment and indeed should be grateful it is treated as an equal under Western law
2) Quarantine: Restrict the propagation of Moslem populations into the West. Deport Moslem malefactors and dependents to the Islamic country of origin. If born in a non-Moslem country, deport them to Saudi Arabia.
3) Innoculation: Promote full education of Islam and its implications for non-Moslems as part of a counter-da'wa campaign. The truth shall set you free
Posted by: Chatillon at November 15, 2006 2:57 PM
"US Military Academy discovers that killing bin Laden or Zawahiri wouldn't stop jihad movement"
Duh ?
Posted by: Supermaxx at November 15, 2006 3:10 PM
When with this report be avaialable?
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at November 15, 2006 3:18 PM
it might not totally stop islamofacists, but it is feels good bombing the crap out the bin laden boys. we just have to finish the job, do a Dresden on all muslim facists. start with the monkey man from iran.
what they dont tell you the whole story, is that they are fighting this war PC style. we need to fight to win, and to hell with the UN, EU.
at November 15, 2006 3:20 PM
This report states that most of the population of the Middle East and North Africa are followers of radical Islam. On Government letterhead.
Get a copy to Tom Tancredo.
at November 15, 2006 3:36 PM
And Mit Romney.
Posted by: limes at November 15, 2006 3:37 PM
How about if we simply destroy the physical manifistation of their god? Blow up the "Ka'ba" and you've destroyed their god. What will be the point of their obedience to a religion once you've killed their "god?" Sounds pretty simple if you ask me.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at November 15, 2006 3:43 PM
of course it would not stop anything...that whole al kaeda thing is pure bull...there are terrorists orgs out there, at least according to Jason Burke's book, that can just as easily finance terrorists acts around the globe...duh...some people man!
Posted by: sikhy at November 15, 2006 3:48 PM
It takes a lot of time and effort to get a 100-ton steamroller going, but underway it will crush any obstacle in its path.
I'm a steamroller for your love, Islam, baby.
Watch me roll all over you.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 15, 2006 3:48 PM
@sicky
Don't put words in people's mouths.
We read your Koran. We know it tells you to kill us.
You and your religion are the ENEMY! Soon, America will wake up and ban you and your evil cult, inshallah!
at November 15, 2006 3:57 PM
i guess that means yes! so sad but i am not surprised given Bob's little on line madrasa called jihad watch...
Posted by: sikhy at November 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Apologies for being OT.
Here is a followup to this story about the kidnapping of Fox journalists Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig, who were forced to convert to Islam.
WorldNetDaily have multiple sources who verify that a "U.S. source" paid $2 million to terrorist groups in Gaza to get the journalists released. The terrorists proudly explain that the money went to buy weapons used to kill "Zionists". Fox denies the story.
Posted by: special_guest at November 15, 2006 4:00 PM
Now they realize that. Only now.
Yet this truth was voiced the day after 9/11, the problem together with an operative solution, when an American columnist wrote:
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".
The first two steps were carried half-heartedly. The third step, which is the only one that can guarantee permanent peace, was not carried out at all. Because, you see, we had to be rational and avoid "making this a religious war". Even though it had been so since the 7th century.
The columnist is Ann Coulter. But her "knee-jerk reaction" and "provocative style" could not be allowed to take precedence over the learned and cool-headed analysis of the intellectual giants at the State Department, of course. So they were listened to, and then people were astonished to find out democratizing didn't win the hearts and minds of the other side, and it all culminated in the defeat of Bush by those who are even more steeped in the delusion of appeasement.
Posted by: ZionistYoungster at November 15, 2006 4:01 PM
sikhy said
Bob's little on line madrasa
I guess that means sikhy is a racist hate-monger who wants to kill all the infidels. sikhy thinks we all need to die, in as horribly violent way possible. His own words expose his genocidal wishes. There is no place for such a vile and disgusting person as sikhy on JihadWatch.
Posted by: special_guest at November 15, 2006 4:06 PM
"There is no place for such a vile and
disgusting person as sikhy on JihadWatch."
Thank you!
at November 15, 2006 4:11 PM
The report is available online here.
Posted by: Malta_1565 at November 15, 2006 4:14 PM
As a result, the authors found, the death or capture of Mr. bin Laden and Mr. Zawahri would do little to slow the spread of jihadist ideology."-
I see - sour grapes. This is a ridiculous stuy and conclusion to coincide with Bush's departure. All Jihadies talk about Sheik - UBL as their mentor and nobody else.
I think they outsourced the study to Pakies to come back with this kind of conclusion.
at November 15, 2006 4:49 PM
As a result, the authors found, the death or capture of Mr. bin Laden and Mr. Zawahri would do little to slow the spread of jihadist ideology."-
I see - sour grapes. This is a ridiculous study and conclusion to coincide with Bush's departure. All Jihadies talk about Sheik - UBL as their mentor and nobody else.
I think they outsourced the study to Pakies to come back with this kind of conclusion.
at November 15, 2006 4:49 PM
Sikhy-
You are a Muslim, and you are insulting Sikhs by calling yourself a Sikhy. I guess that is Islamic trait to be deceptive. I wish you and your kind go fourth and multiply.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at November 15, 2006 5:00 PM
Chatillon makes some good points. We need a program to counter the violence inherent within Islamic teachings. Who's gonna do this? The Church? The government? Don't get your hopes up.
Here's the tricky part: as an American I really don't care how people pray, how often they pray, who they pray to, or what they wear, as long as they stay out of my face. Prayer and dress fall under religon and Islam encompasses this so it is protected. OTOH, Islam also contains an intolerant political and militaristic ideology which needs to be crushed into "submission". It is easy to say let's educate against Islam, but how do you do this within the Constitution?
The Islamic blending of political with religous, military with civilian, stymies the West. It confuses us and makes us hesitate. Look at the Islamic advance in Europe. (European anti-hate speech laws are being applied to critics of Islam, with few applications to the hate-mongering imams.) Look at the lack of military success in Iraq and Lebanon. (The US could decimate Iraq in a few days, similarly Israel could Lebanon, but neither has because of the risk to civilian population.)
Don't look here for a solution. I'm just stating my perspective on the problem.
at November 15, 2006 5:13 PM
Sihky -
A_Plague_on_Both_Houses, so do you believe that the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim?
No I don't. I think this fight is really pretty stupid. I would not have a problem with Muslims and whether or not they think I'm najis or that they think I'm evil or beneath them.
I have a problem with the idea that they intend to convert, conquer or kill all non-believers and will fight until all religion is for allah. If true believers couldn't force me to convert or submit & pay protection tax I'd be fine with all Muslims. It's the coercion that I will resist.
Sikhy, I'm not like Allah and I don't make blanket statements about people and their character simply because they say they believe in something I don't agree with. Allah does that. Mohammed does that. I don't. The world isn't black and white. People aren't all bad... many muslims are good people, just controlled, ignorant or misguided in belief.
They deserve to have a future but the thoughts in their heads do not.
Islam needs to be destroyed. Allah needs to be destroyed. Mohammed needs to be discredited and abandoned. Those are the obstacles that me must flatten, not all the people. Unfortunately some of the people insist on a fight. They must be dealt with harshly.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 15, 2006 5:21 PM
On the radio today I heard General Abazaid talking to Congress. He said they had learned some tough lessons in Iraq. I wonder if one of those lessons was(shhhh)there is a jihad going on...
Posted by: tgusa at November 15, 2006 5:26 PM
Re: “Western governments have neither the local credibility nor the cultural expertise necessary to diminish the popularity of Salafism,” the study found".
Only very painful consequences will bring the believers in the belief-system to reason and reality. Reason will not work with this belief-system. That's reality.
The only way to deal with obstacles in life is to look at them with a cool mind and figure out the problem, the causes of the problem and look to possible solutions of a problem and figure out the best option that will bring a win-win conclusion that will cause a rising tide that will lift all boats. I see no possibility of reason as the basis of any accommodation with this supremacist belief-system. They live by the sword (as mandated by the belief-system) and will die by the sword. That's their choice.
Posted by: Frank at November 15, 2006 6:00 PM
General Abazaid talking to Congress. He said they had learned some tough lessons in Iraq.,
of course the lesson is enough of the pc crap, take out every reporter, and get tough on iran and syria from iraq's bases.
at November 15, 2006 6:52 PM
Killing Bin Laden and Zawahiri will not stop the jihad but it will make an important point to the jihadists:
They are NOT divinely protected!
Posted by: Sir Oinks Alot at November 15, 2006 7:45 PM
In regard to that... um.. study.
I was commanded to make war on all the peoples of the Earth until they say - There is no food but Haggis and Haggis tastes delicious.
If you can't state the problem in a way that is simple enough for a seven-year-old to understand it, you probably don't understand the problem.
I was commanded to make war on all the peoples of the Earth until they say - There is no food but Haggis and Haggis tastes delicious.
If you can't state the problem in a way that is simple enough for a seven-year-old to understand it, you probably don't understand the problem.
I was commanded to make war on all the peoples of the Earth until they say - There is no food but Haggis and Haggis tastes delicious.
Eh? You don't like Haggis you co**su**er? Well I'm a goin' to cut your f*****g head off motherf****r.
Because, you see, I was commanded to make war on all the peoples of the Earth until they say - There is no food but Haggis and Haggis tastes delicious.
Posted by: lietzout berzerker at November 15, 2006 8:56 PM
Think about this all in a slightly different light.
Just a mere 40 years ago -- Islam was largely dormant and slumbering. It has often been suggested at this site that the influx of trillions into Muslim coffers through the development of oil has ignited this latest resurgent Jihad.
I'm sure that's completely true, but it isn't the whole story.
In my opinion, ever since the fall of the Ottoman Empire Islam appeared to be largely in terminal decline, and was rightly thougth to be something which neednt' be taken too seriously on the world stage. Without minimizing the horribleness of their feckless jihad at that time, aside from low simmering jihads waged here and there, in "Palestine', the Philippines, Kashmir, for example, there really wasn't much to fear.
Clearly oil, and the commensurate transfer of wealth for that commodity has had its effect. But isn't it also true that this period was the Muslim world's first exposure to the munificence and benificence of the wonders from the Western non-Muslim world? Didn't this period also provide, in addition to the gushing money fonts for the despots, exposure for stone aged Muslims to things like hygiene, medicine, television, radio, and a whole host of other unearned benefits?
What effects did helping their health and birthrates accomplish for us? The theories of things like UNICEF, clean drinking water, and access to medicine and technology were supposed to have a beneficial effect for the recipients and the First World alike --
This is still the entire First World's doctrine -- we MUST generously share our wealth, and the benefits of our hard work and technology with those 'less fortunate'. It's widely accepted that this is a 'good thing to do'.
Is it? When it pertains to Muslims, has anything we've given them redounded to our benefit in the slightest?
Our help has translated in to Muslims living better than they ever have before -- they are collectively healthier than they've ever been before -- more Muslims have access to nearly the entire list of goodies which we invented, they have nearly unfettered access to our mediciine, or technology, and even our educational system.
And what have they done? They've embarked on an unprecedented breeding campaign. Growth rates in most Muslim countries are among the highest on earth. We often hear that "Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth" -- Not completely sure about it, but if it is, it's largely due to the fact that our technology and inventions have made it possible...
They have also embarked on building, again with our largesse and generosity, a series of seething generations of hatred filled acolytes to Islam -- Islam's grip has been tightened in those areas which Muslims dominate -- the violent spread of Islam is picking up pace, and Muslims are now more well distributed and well placed across the globe than they ever have been before in history.
What does it all mean?
I think we should conclude now that helping Muslims ANYWHERE, at ANYTIME, will redound to our regret. They don't build hopeful societies with our helping hand... They bite at our hand, take whatever we will give them, and viciously demand more. They will take our resources and set about breeding and swelling their ranks. They will set about abusing our knowledge for evil purposes -- happily weaponizing the gifts of knowledge and technology to fashion deadly traps for us. All of our assistance has translated into their sense of their own superiority, and their own sense of rage and entitlement now to everything we possess, including our lives, our property, and our minds.
We need to radically rethink the notion that helping Muslims translates into civilizing them or persuading them from turning from their well worn patterns of retrograde primitivism.
It's time to leave them to their filth. Leave them to their barren wasteland of Islam. Let them rot and revel in it. What care we? Helping them only turns into a nightmare for us. Worse -- helping them clearly is equivalent to signing our own death warrant. What sense is there in that.
Our policy towards Muslims in nothing short of insane.
Posted by: jsla at November 15, 2006 9:48 PM
OBL & Dr. Z should have been killed years ago. President Bush pointed out this would be a generational war all along. It is not just a simple matter of killing the Al Queda boys.
None the less, the Western world has fallen on it's face in bringing down these two. This is not just an " American " or " Israel " problem, but one facing the whole Western world. Europe has pretty much sat on the sidelines while America has tried to tackle the "jihad two". America in turn has taken it's own seat on the sidelines and outsourced the problem to Pakistan. They in turn strike deals with the jihadist protecting the " jihadist two ".
Monolithic foolishness. The study it's self reeks of a white wash or rationalization of this monumental foolishness.
DEATH TO THE JIHADIST TWO!
DEATH TO ISLAM!
----Nossy
at November 15, 2006 10:36 PM
I love your way of speaking lietzout berzerker and I love your name, may a piece of haggis be upon you.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at November 16, 2006 10:31 AM
Somebody, please send "speaker" Nancy a copy, before a redeploy sends all the troops on a manhunt.
Go after who we must, with wisdom.
Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at November 17, 2006 12:20 AM
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