Come Jaunuary CAIR shall have its wish granted.
US Air will probably disappear as a result.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 22, 2006 9:04 AM

It's not profiling if the profile is the only motivation for the crime. One group kills and dies for Allah's "paradise." Imams, moreso than any other group of people, should be heavily scrutinized. They can't plead ignorance when it comes to the dar-al-harb, shahids, kufr, 9.5, 9.29, 9.111, and so on. Muslim clerics spread the jihad, qital, and martyrdom belief system.

Posted by: Beagle at November 22, 2006 9:06 AM

Assalamau Laikum folks,

...and guess who will be raising the issuse....yes well done Keith...

Posted by: Naseem at November 22, 2006 9:09 AM

Has anybody actually read this proposed legislation? It was drafted by Rep Conyers and 21 other co-sponsers. It was actually brought to the house floor previously but sent to the subcommittee on the constitution. I read it, it appears to be vey unconstitutional and discrimanatory against all other religions.

I'll try and find a link along with the other 21 congressmen who helped write it.

Posted by: gaelen at November 22, 2006 9:32 AM

Oh and it's so freakin obvious that this was a staged event for this very reason.

Posted by: gaelen at November 22, 2006 9:34 AM

What about the rights of US citizens to fly without being blown to pieces or crashed into a skyscraper? Doesn't the average American have rights anymore? Shouldn't CAIR be concentrating on the behaviour of their own people, and not changing the law of the land? It's absolutely amazing how muslims cannot accept responsibility for terrorism, intimidation or instigating fear amongst the innocent. It's all justified to them by the Quran.

WE need to get a backbone and fast before the country is overrun with special interest groups striving to protect jihadist criminals and others who seek the destruction of our civilization. Or is it too late?

There are rules that apply to everyone. If you're a muslim on a plane, then maybe out of courtesy to everyone else you could pray internally. We don't appreciate that here. If you aren't going to extend that courtesy to your fellow passengers, then don't whine when you're cuffed and thrown off the plane.

We don't need your Islamic religion shoved into our faces, and yes, we're a little paranoid about people like you wanting to blow us up. That happens to be your problem ; you own it. If you don't like it, then you have some work to do to change perceptions.

Posted by: Muzzl'em at November 22, 2006 9:34 AM

They should have been arrested and charged with gross stupidity.

If you get on a plane and start making jokes about bombs, you expect to be arrested. Shouting about allah (potroast be upon him) with a bunch of other blokes, presumably with beards and dressed in islamic attire, is just about as close as you can come to saying making bomb jokes on an airplane.

They probably did this deliberately, just seeing how far they can push the dirty kuffirs.

Posted by: Alex at November 22, 2006 9:36 AM

Well, U.S. Airways is starting to back off and leaving its employees to twist slowly in the wind. Why did we expect anything else?

I can also confidently predict that Minnesota politicians will stumble over each other in rushing to condemn the racist Islamophobes who were disturbed by the actions of the peaceful Muslims at the airport.

Perhaps as pennance for our Islamophobic sins we should immediately import another 50,000 Muslims to join their brothers and sisters in the Peoples Republic of Minnesota.

Allahu akbar!

Posted by: Norseman at November 22, 2006 9:36 AM

If what I've seen from the latest news reports is true -- that the imams completed their prayers before boarding the plane -- I think we should all take a deep breath and admit that they were treated inappropriately. OTOH, this is a trivial matter and is being blown out of all proportion by CAIR. It calls for an apology and maybe some free tickets for goodwill.

Of course, if I wanted to be hardline about this, I could also say that adherents of a religion whose holy books makes idiotic, bigoted, lying judgements about adherents of other religions shouldn't have a cow when they are judged on the basis of actions by great numbers of other Muslims, including the 9/11 murderers.

Posted by: Karl Pov at November 22, 2006 9:44 AM

If it ever comes down to muslims not having to go through security or be screened, I will stop flying. I don't fly enough to pay for a CEO's Mercedes, but I fly an average of four times a year. I would hate for our American businesses to suffer or go bankrupt, but I'm not going to put myself in jeopardy because of whiny muslims. Maybe in Saudi Arabia they stand and pray and shout allah snackbar and carry weapons and threaten other passengers, but we civilized people don't do this.

You bozo's are in OUR country, show some respect.

Posted by: freewoman at November 22, 2006 9:46 AM

Perhaps as pennance for our Islamophobic sins we should immediately import another 50,000 Muslims to join their brothers and sisters in the Peoples Republic of Minnesota.

Allahu akbar!

Posted by: Norseman at November 22, 2006 09:36 AM

Get with the times Norseman. The Peoples Republic has been replaced by the Caliphate of Minnesota. We've "evolved" to a higher state. Just think of it as Turkey going backward.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 22, 2006 9:49 AM

9 out of 10 terrorists are called mohammad....

Is that profiling or observation?

Posted by: exposesithlords at November 22, 2006 9:51 AM

--I found this but it's a little different then the one I read, perhaps revised a little from the original?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives condemning bigotry and religious intolerance, and recognizing that holy books of every religion should be treated with dignity and... (Introduced in House)

HRES 288 IH

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. RES. 288
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives condemning bigotry and religious intolerance, and recognizing that holy books of every religion should be treated with dignity and respect.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

May 19, 2005
Mr. CONYERS (for himself, Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas, Ms. ESHOO, Mr. FILNER, Mr. KUCINICH, Mr. MEEHAN, Mr. PASCRELL, and Mr. SERRANO) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives condemning bigotry and religious intolerance, and recognizing that holy books of every religion should be treated with dignity and respect.

Whereas believers of all religions, including the Abrahamic faiths of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, should be treated with respect and dignity;

Whereas the word Islam comes from the Arabic root word meaning `peace' and `submission';

Whereas there are an estimated 7,000,000 Muslims in America, from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds, forming an integral part of the social fabric of America;

Whereas the Quran is the holy book for Muslims who recite passages from it in prayer and learn valuable lessons about peace, humanity, and spirituality;

Whereas it should never be official policy of the United States Government to disparage the Quran, Islam, or any religion in any way, shape, or form;

Whereas mistreatment of prisoners and disrespect toward the holy book of any religion is unacceptable and against civilized humanity; and

Whereas the infringement of an individual's right to freedom of religion violates the Constitution and laws of the United States: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) condemns bigotry, acts of violence, and intolerance against any religious group, including our friends, neighbors, and citizens of the Islamic faith;

(2) declares that the civil rights and civil liberties of all individuals, including those of the Islamic faith, should be protected;

(3) recognizes that the Quran, the holy book of Islam, as any other holy book of any religion, should be treated with dignity and respect; and

(4) calls upon local, State, and Federal authorities to work to prevent bias-motivated crimes and acts against all individuals, including those of the Islamic faith.

H.RES.288
Title: Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives condemning bigotry and religious intolerance, and recognizing that holy books of every religion should be treated with dignity and respect.
Sponsor: Rep Conyers, John, Jr. [MI-14] (introduced 5/19/2005) Cosponsors (21)
Latest Major Action: 6/6/2005 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COSPONSORS(21), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)
Rep Cleaver, Emanuel [MO-5] - 6/8/2005 Rep Cole, Tom [OK-4] - 7/12/2005
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. [MD-7] - 6/8/2005 Rep Eshoo, Anna G. [CA-14] - 5/19/2005
Rep Filner, Bob [CA-51] - 5/19/2005 Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila [TX-18] - 5/19/2005
Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice [TX-30] - 6/8/2005 Rep Kaptur, Marcy [OH-9] - 6/8/2005
Rep Kilpatrick, Carolyn C. [MI-13] - 6/8/2005 Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. [OH-10] - 5/19/2005
Rep LaHood, Ray [IL-18] - 6/8/2005 Rep McDermott, Jim [WA-7] - 6/8/2005
Rep Meehan, Martin T. [MA-5] - 5/19/2005 Rep Pascrell, Bill, Jr. [NJ-8] - 5/19/2005
Rep Pastor, Ed [AZ-4] - 6/8/2005 Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. [IL-9] - 7/12/2005
Rep Scott, Robert C. [VA-3] - 6/8/2005 Rep Serrano, Jose E. [NY-16] - 5/19/2005
Rep Waters, Maxine [CA-35] - 5/24/2005 Rep Wexler, Robert [FL-19] - 6/8/2005
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. [CA-6] - 6/8/2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL ACTIONS:
5/19/2005:
Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
6/6/2005:
Referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.
5/20/2005:
Introductory remarks on measure. (CR E1045)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.res.00288:

Posted by: gaelen at November 22, 2006 9:53 AM

9 out of 10 terrorists are called mohammad....

Is that profiling or observation?

Posted by: exposesithlords at November 22, 2006 09:51 AM

That's called supreme emulation of Mr. Perfect.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 22, 2006 9:54 AM

Heres a link to the subcommittee on the constitution. Surprise surprise our friend Rep Conyers is on it!

http://judiciary.house.gov/committeestructure.aspx?committee=7

Posted by: gaelen at November 22, 2006 9:56 AM

I would welcome such Congressional hearings; so long as the right people from our side are called.

To paraphrase Beagle's point, 'It's the clerics, stupid.'

I'd love to have a 'moderate' Muslim tell us how his personal interpretation of 5:33 and 9:29 (and other 'troubling' verses from not just Qur'an, but hadith and sira, too) is correct, and how the tiny minority of extremists have gotten it so wrong.

And wouldn't it be grand to have RS and others there to challenge them!

This could be an opportunity to expose more of the American public to what Islam really teaches.

Every opportunity should be exploited.

Posted by: PRCS at November 22, 2006 10:04 AM

What constitutes a 'Holy book? Will my Wiccan theology book qualify, or my Tibetan 'Book of the Dead', or my Satanic Bible?
The US government under the thumb of these political perverts is trying to establish a government religion...Islam. Conyers and those other should be arrested for attempting to sabatage US sovereignity, because what comes next is recognition of Sharia law. It would seem to me that these derilicts are directly opposing the constitution and should be slapped down, removed from office and incarcerated...

Posted by: duh_swami at November 22, 2006 10:10 AM

gaelen, when I read that I felt physically sick, we are not far off of that in Europe to be honest, but how does that fit with the first amendment, as far as I can see that you just need to refer to the first amendment when you say anything and your covered, but in Europe that does not exist.

Posted by: Daffersd at November 22, 2006 10:13 AM

OT, but something to put a smile on your face:

The surge in violence [in Gaza] coincided with a decision by the Red Cross to suspend activities in Gaza after two of its workers were briefly kidnapped. The suspension dealt a major blow to aid efforts in the impoverished territory where Red Cross ambulances are a common sight.

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at November 22, 2006 10:32 AM

Daffersd

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I guess it's in the interpretation.

Posted by: gaelen at November 22, 2006 10:33 AM

Had islamics not condemned the entire free world to atrocities, savagery and terror, NO ONE would have given a second thought to muslims, burkas, FGM, muslim males having sex with children and goats, and beating one's head on the ground five times daily.

They are forcing themselves on us, just like rape, and our government is allowing this. We always respected other religions. We don't need an amendment or new law.

Soon , if muslims are allowed to force themselves on us, we will be told how to wipe, which hand to use, cannot block east during prayers, have to cover, get mutilated, cut our children to let them bleed, give up our dogs, women give up driving or leaving the house by ourselves, work, wear high heels, cannot date and etc.

We cannot respect criminal behavior and shouldn't ignore it or legalize it. We are doomed if we do.

I have an idea on cutting back on muslim air travel. Charge them 100 times the normal ticket price. They love the 7th century, so they should love riding a camel to their destination.

Posted by: freewoman at November 22, 2006 10:39 AM

It will be instructive and hilarious as the Dems try to find the high moral ground to defend Ibrahim and his ilk.

The comedy (which prededes the tragi comedy) begins.

Posted by: dgene at November 22, 2006 10:41 AM

Yes, by all means let us have hearings. After all, the muslims blew up buildings and people on 9-11 and shortly afterward we were all subjected to treatment you would see in a detention camp. Carrying your goods in little plastic bags, submitting to endless searches, surrendering rights on an almost daily basis. This is the new age of freedom? I would prefer the old one, the one where criminals were treated like criminals and citizens were not harassed because one ideology wants to control the world. Remember the words of Ben Franklin, those who would sacrifice freedom for security, deserve neither. Look around, we have already started to do just that. The airlines, the pols, the civil servants they can go to hell, that is where they are headed and with buckets of American blood on their hands. 230 years ago these people would have been tried, found guilty, and put against the wall.

Posted by: tgusa at November 22, 2006 10:41 AM

Americaningermany...I formerly worked for the State of California USA. I was looking through a policy book and found that an employee could take off for a religious holiday 'if' the religion was 'recognised'and had a 'recognisable tenent'.
What did they mean by recognised? Did they have a list somewhere with approved religions on it? And what did they mean 'recognisable tenent? And who gets to decide? I was burning with these questions and tried to find answers. I left no stone unturned in the system I was working in...and guess what, No one knew...Not the managers, not the supervisors, and no one in the administration...but one thing they were all clear on, was that I could not take the day off to worship BAAL and sacrifice a goat.
So muslims can take time off for prayers ect, and Conyers and company's bill certainly favors muslims, but I cant take time off for Baal?? (Boy was that goat lucky). Somehow I think my rights were violated...

Posted by: duh_swami at November 22, 2006 10:42 AM

Gee guys seems to me what we need is a group, organization or connection that has or can garner the power or representation that whoCAIR's has and can combat these idiots. A group that has an attorney or group of attorney's or the backing of a senator or two.

Personally I don't have the knowledge to do such a thing but I would support it.

Posted by: Supermaxx at November 22, 2006 10:50 AM

Its the Congress (both sides including President 'Islam is a religion of peace' Bush) and Media who gives them so much power. How often have you seen RS or any other conservative on CBS/ABC/NBC/CNN as opposed to a professional CAIR liar?

Its the media who quotes CAIR while failing to mention their terrorist connections (pasts and current). They surely know about them (they are so-called professional journalists after all aren't they?)

Its the Congress (and State department) who open the doors wide to CAIR even to the point of giving them guilded tours of security areas.

Did we send detailed plans and schedules for Pearl Harbour to the Imperial Japanese Navy in Nov/Dec 41?

As for the legislation. I think I will ask my congressperson to insert a little phrase that it will take effect as soon as similar acts respecting the bible take effect in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Indonesia.

Posted by: CrazyFool at November 22, 2006 10:52 AM

Somehow our lawmakers have forgotten that, another's rights ends at the tip of my nose.

I have the right to travel freely, and except for the common criminal I might run across, expect to arrive safely. Otherwise, I might as well try walking through a prison while the inmates are out. It's dangerous!

We wouldn't allow an alien race to come in, kill our citizens, demand their "rights" because they landed in America , and change our culture. So why do we do it with people under the guise of religion?

I personally would not feel safe knowing my neighbor's four year old boy slits a goat's throat in the family bathroom, and then comes to play with my grandchild. It's insane!

Our lawmaker's need to protect us, and not worry about people who WON'T assimilate and leave their garbage in their old country.

Posted by: freewoman at November 22, 2006 10:54 AM

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. RES. 288
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives condemning bigotry and religious intolerance, and recognizing that holy books of every religion should be treated with dignity and respect.

Can someone please pass this resolution in KSA and in Pakiland?
They colllect Bibles at the borders there, don't they? Jews aren't allowed to travel to KSA.. Not that they probably really want to :-)

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 11:22 AM

In Re to the article.

Wow! It's like Bizarro World McCarthy-ism run amuck!!!

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at November 22, 2006 1:06 PM

If there is a Congressional hearing, I hope they examine the ideology of Islam fully. Examine and investigate the underlying cause of the "profiling", i.e. the Quran and hadith themselves. Bring in people like Robert Spencer and others as well.

Get to the bottom line as to what Islam truly is and who Muhammad truly was.

Unless they are blind, Congress should quickly conclude that Islam is a evil violent vile religious and political ideology. It is not peaceful. The Quran is more vile and violent than Mein Kampf ever was. The "prophet" Muhammad was a violent murderous evil man. His life was one of violence. He forcefully subjugated Arabs, Jews, Christians, and other "infidels". If you resisted, he tried to kill you.

Islam is the one religion and political ideology where our Constitution should be amended to outlaw and/or ban.

Islam is an enemy to everything Western and an enemy to freedom. Islam a "faith" of tyranny.

Posted by: Levi at November 22, 2006 1:16 PM

I know the solution, and that is countervailing outrage and pressure from non Muslim Americans, but so long as the antiJihad voice is perceived as a right wing Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Zionist voice or as Oreally, Coulter, Fartwell, Robyourson, Dobyourson, Perkins et al cause or part of the insane and counterproductive culture war (which those morons so dearly love and brag about), then we will lose.. We will lose because the rational Americans, those not devoted to the divisive pyschosexual politics of the "culture war" will side with the muslims believing that they are just another target of the bigotted, irrational radical right.

And there you have it..order up some more Limpballs, Oreally, Coulter, throw more money at the AEI, Heritage Foundation, New Life Church, Liberty Lobby, etc et al and the west will lose the real culture war, not the phoney psychosexual culture war created by these predatious self serving misanthropes.

Posted by: Nariz at November 22, 2006 2:06 PM

it's so freakin obvious that this was a staged event for this very reason.

So was PlameGate, and that show was a long running hit.

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

I for one hope they hold hearings on this. When you're running a large scale extremely dangerous Fictive Reality, it's always best to get your monkeys on parade out there for the public to behold.

If they hold the hearings, I plan to ignore my hogs and sit in front of my brand new Korean manufactured 50" TV all day to savor the ramblings of Chuck Schumer, Bob Byrd, Joe Biden, Dick Durbin, Gigolo John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and "Republican" Arlen Specter.

God those guys are funny.

And then, for dessert, I'll top off my day's entertainment by watching Islamist Carl Levin's speech. Dollar to a doughnut Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn, gets all teary eyed when fellow Moslem Carl holds forth.

But my eye will be peeled for Gigolo John. He's an old hand at the sedition game, and has proved time and again that turning on American interests turns the girls on to boot.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 22, 2006 2:17 PM

Dear Nariz:

You stated:"We will lose because the rational Americans, those not devoted to the divisive pyschosexual politics of the "culture war" will side with the muslims believing that they are just another target of the bigotted, irrational radical right."

Rational Americans are not that stupid.

Regardless what you consider the "right fringe" might say, the continued actions of Muslims around the world and in the U.S. which will only get more demanding, intrusive, and violent, coupled with their further understanding of the Quran which is more violent & vile than Mein Kampf, they will realize that Muslims are not a side to cozy up to. They will eventually realize that the "fringe right" is merely sounding the clarion call that Islam is a vile violent religious and political ideology. It is a tyranny just as great, if not greater, than Hitler's Fascism and/or Stalin's Communism.

But they won't need to take the word of the "fringe right" for Islam will, with time, expose itself to what it truly is and has already began to "enlighten" the rational American, i.e. that it is a "faith" bent on forceful subjugation and domination. Convert, pay up and be a second class citizen, or die.

Americans are coming around to the truth of Islam and as they do they won't be cozying up to Muslims unless they do so out of fear and intimidation from not the "fringe right", but from Islam itself.

Posted by: Levi at November 22, 2006 2:51 PM

Here is one for the CAIR crew:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000796.html

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 22, 2006 3:34 PM

I had never even heard of C.A.I.R. until just a few years ago.

Who the hell gave them so much power? Just curious. Those watchdogs seem to be running the show already.

Posted by: americaningermany at November 22, 2006 09:13 AM

You probably know the answers but I'll given them anyway.....

Try Jimmy 'Yellow' Carter, Billy 'Rafiq, Yasser' Clinton, Dubya 'Brother Bandar' Bush, Condi 'oppressed terrporists' Rice.. for starters. And that is why out current and ex-presidents are so dangerous. Like they say.. fish starts rotting at thr head.

Posted by: Alert at November 22, 2006 5:52 PM

Maybe in Saudi Arabia they stand and pray and shout allah snackbar and carry weapons and threaten other passengers, but we civilized people don't do this.

You bozo's are in OUR country, show some respect.

Posted by: freewoman at November 22, 2006 09:46 AM

.. square this up against the 15000 additional students visas to Saudi barbarians, thanks to dubya. See how much dubya cares for Amercia? And I have not yet mentioned the 'guest worker program' or 'allies against terror' or sending honest border petrol agents to jail... but you see where I am going with this........ and for the record, am not a democrat.

Posted by: Alert at November 22, 2006 5:59 PM

That happens to be your problem ; you own it. If you don't like it, then you have some work to do to change perceptions.

Posted by Muzzl'em at November 22, 2006 09:34 AM

Reminds me of my first reaction to 9/11:
Islamic terror is Islamic problem and Muslims, the followers of Islam, should be held responsible for Islamic terror. It is as simple as that.

Posted by: Alert at November 22, 2006 6:04 PM

And here is how Billy 'Rafiq, Arafat' Clinton screwed US of A: http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Embracing%20Islam%20selling%20out%20children.htm

Posted by: Alert at November 22, 2006 6:12 PM

Islam is an enemy to everything Western and an enemy to freedom. Islam a "faith" of tyranny.

Posted by: Levi at November 22, 2006 01:16 PM

.. hiding masks of 'religion of peace', 'internal jihad' and many others.........

Posted by: Alert at November 22, 2006 6:15 PM

Can someone please pass this resolution in KSA and in Pakiland?
They colllect Bibles at the borders there, don't they? Jews aren't allowed to travel to KSA.. Not that they probably really want to :-)

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 11:22 AM

Good point, AIG! Now square that against dubya's 'allies against terror' KSA and Pakiland. Doesn't make sense does it?

Posted by: Alert at November 22, 2006 7:43 PM

Keep an eye on Conyers. He is a shill for the muslim community. There is no doubt in my mind that main stream America will be sold out by this guy.

Il Toscano

Posted by: il toscano at November 23, 2006 12:25 AM

Nariz wrote: "I know the solution, and that is countervailing outrage and pressure from non Muslim Americans, but so long as the antiJihad voice is perceived as a right wing Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Zionist voice or as Oreally, Coulter, Fartwell, Robyourson, Dobyourson, Perkins et al cause or part of the insane and counterproductive culture war (which those morons so dearly love and brag about), then we will lose.. We will lose because the rational Americans, those not devoted to the divisive pyschosexual politics of the "culture war" will side with the muslims believing that they are just another target of the bigotted, irrational radical right.

And there you have it..order up some more Limpballs, Oreally, Coulter, throw more money at the AEI, Heritage Foundation, New Life Church, Liberty Lobby, etc et al and the west will lose the real culture war, not the phoney psychosexual culture war created by these predatious self serving misanthropes."

Couldn't have said it better myself, Nariz, except I object to the lumping together of "Zionist" with the extreme right wing. Not all Zionists are extreme right wingers, or even especially political or partisan. Israel exists today as a result of Zionism; if the movement hadn't existed the impetus to create a Jewish homeland would not have been there. God knows they weren't getting a whole lot of help from eanyone else. It also exists because of the Holocaust, which made the creation of a Jewish homeland a necessity. You can't change that historical fact either (although one can deny it, as sadly so many do.) So regardless of one's feelings about Zionism as an ideology, to denounce it wholesale is basically to denounce Israel, by which I mean the very existence of Israel, not its policies, actions, etc. which like any country change over time and of course can and should be criticized and condemned if they're wrong. It's a bit of a contradiction to lump zionism together with the forces of backwardness when it has resulted in the creation of what is probably the only truly democratic, open, SECULAR state in the entire Middle East.

That being said, I share your exasperation that anti-Jihadism is so widely perceived as just another one of the many "anti-isms" of the Falwellites and Coulterites out there. But you can't blame the public for that perception, because, whether we like these people or not, or agree with their views about most other issues or not, THEY are the ones going out and saying what you and I know to be the truth. It's no skin off their noses to do this, because they don't care if people call them racist, intolerant, bigoted, etc., but liberals are terrified of being perceived this way. Nothing shuts a liberal up like calling him/her a racist, even if the one doing the calling is a complete idiot, even if we know that self-serving groups deliberately manipulate liberal guilt and fear in this way into acheiving their very un-liberal goals. I'm convinced that's one of the reasons why you have the strange phenomenon of people and groups who have the most to fear from the jihadists, like women, gays, atheists, various ethnic minorities, the poor, etc. either being deafeningly silent or else misguidedly hitching their wagons to the "Muslim rights" cause, convinced that it actually does have something to do with racism. This is something that has to change. Get over the fear, and speak out.

Posted by: angloirishslav at November 24, 2006 12:28 AM