What patience?

Posted by: TheVoiceofTruth at November 22, 2006 6:19 PM

It should be the other way around if at all. Non- muslims and Christians have been way to patient with the militant intolerance of the fundamental Islamic world.

The Catholic Church has as many followers as does the Islamic world.

It is this world that is slowly running out of patience and for some Islamic countries such as Syria, and Iran it is beginning to run out of choices.

Posted by: Mackie at November 22, 2006 6:32 PM

Get the fuck out of the Agia Sophia and stay out!!!!

These filthy dogs have worn out my patience, and I had enough. If Turkey ever poses a threat to Greece again, which she undoubtedly will, there's no way I won't be there to fight!

Take back the Agia Sophia now, and get rid of the vermin that lay claim to her now. This is nothing but another Islamic abomination where they go into sacred sites that aren't their own and defile them with their presence alone.

The world has shown far too much patience with the Islamic world, I believe we need to have that ugly third World War now, before it's too late. Once Iran obtains her nukes it will be too late, there's no way she won't share her technology with states like Turkey's, at that point it's all but lost.

Niv

Posted by: The fanatic at November 22, 2006 6:34 PM

The man on the street has spoken.

Islam is intolerant and Impatient.

Thank you for validating this site.

Posted by: DUGGY at November 22, 2006 6:37 PM

I do hope the Pope says a prayer in Hagia Sophia. Then at least the Christians can at least take it back.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at November 22, 2006 6:38 PM

Big deal -- they were "detained". They'll receive a slap-on-the-wrist and then be set free -- free to murder the Pope.

Posted by: champ at November 22, 2006 6:47 PM

"then knelt to perform Islamic prayers"

Maybe it's just me, but when I see a group kneeling in "Islamic prayer" it just reminds me of a group of Nazis giving the Heil Hitler salute.

Posted by: idahoguy at November 22, 2006 6:48 PM

If I were the pope I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like they are going to do something total insane like flying fully loaded passenger jets into the Vatican...On second thought...

Posted by: St_James at November 22, 2006 6:51 PM

My post from before applies so here goes:

Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are awaiting the meeting of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI with His Holiness Patriarch Barthalmew

http://www.patriarchate.org/

I hope they discuss this muslim madness that has gripped the world. PS I also believe the Pope has nothing to apologize re: his statement on Islam. The man was reading a historical (and accurate document) as an opening to dialogue with these lunatics.

As an Orthodox fromt the Greek church I can tell you horror stories from my ancestors in dealing with our friendly happy go luck muslims --they made sure to kill or expel every christian from Turkey and now there are under 1000 left in Istanbul.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 6:59 PM

The muslims in Turkey have killed millions of Christians there plus the thousands of jews that used to live there right up to the early 20th century. liberals hate this side of 'secular' turkey but what do you expect from a country where 99% of the people are Muslim? Like my exmuslim turkish friend has said in the past: "Turkey is one revolutionary coup away from becomig an Islamic Republic itself"

genocide is in vogue in those areas always has been:
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/armenians.htm
--------------------------------------

more on the genocide committed gleefuly by muslims there (WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURES OF INNOCENT CHRISTIANS DYING AND BEING STARVED ETC)

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm

notice they look alot like the jewish people found in the camps in WWII hmm I wonder why? didnt their muslim hosts let them live in peace as islam loves to claim to be a religion of peace. please remember all this stuff happend in the TWENTIETH century not long ago in the middle ages...
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 7:06 PM

quote from the caption of photos 21 /22 of the story above:

Turkish protesters pray at the Hagia Sophia museum in Istanbul, Turkey, Wednesday, Nov. 22, 2006. Turkish police detained about 40 members of a nationalist party who occupied the Haghia Sophia, a 6th century Byzantine monument, to protest the visit next week of Pope Benedict XVI. The protesters belonged to the Great Unity Party, a far right-wing group that has previously staged demonstrations against the planned visit.

Notice in the article its a BIG deal if the pope (a christian) says a prayer in the hagia sophia (church of Holy Wisdom) but these protesting islamofascist scum can pray and proudly because their ancestors slauhtered christians in that city. Truly to be islamic is to love evil and darkness and all the vile baseness human nature can 'revert' to (pun intended).

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 7:18 PM

First, I think it is a very dangerous trip that the Pope is making to Turkey, not exactly a country full of fans.

The Turks, poised between East and West, are not really our friends and are drifting further toward the East all the time; it seems to me they could revert to an orthodox Muslim state very quickly. It is time for us in the West to quit making excuses for their behavior and accept the fact that, while they might have made a temporary alliance with the West against Communism, now that the Cold War is over, they are increasingly on the Muslim side.

Muslims have long memories but, so do some Christians. I look foreward to the day when the Hagia Sophia is again consecrated as a Christian church in the city of Constantinople.

Posted by: GaryK at November 22, 2006 7:23 PM

Garyk from your mouth to Gods ear!

I hope on that day Christians of all denominations (my own Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Evangelicals, Copts, traditional protestants) meet there and sing that great old American spiritual 'Amazing Grace'.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 7:33 PM

I hear empty slogans like "live and let live" and can't we just all get along all the time by ignorant leftist types. I think almost everyone on this site wants to live in peace. But this post shows how intolerant islam is and why we should never let our guard down. Right now the Greek PM is in the UK with the British PM trying to find a way to diffuse the problems with Turkey getting into the EU. While in Turkey the people have spoken they want us destroyed and they show nothing but contempt for us. Aghia Sophia was an orhtodox Church. Actually it was a church for all christians as there was one church when it was built. I hope the Pope goes there and prays in it. Lets take it back. There is no let the past stay in the past with these people. The only strong defense is an offense. Lets stop giving in to these turds.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 22, 2006 7:36 PM

I forgot to add. the BBC had interviews with Turks about the popes visit. ONe girl commented how their country has been always attacked by westerners going back to the crusades. Too bad during the time of the crusades the poplulation of what is now Turkey was 100% free of muslims. And the crusades were fought to keep the land away from murdering, pillaging, raping, muslim turks. Once the crusades were over the turks commited genocide and took over the land they call turkey. I wish the PC version of history will stop being spread by traitorous news organizations like the BBC.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 22, 2006 7:39 PM

I forgot to add. the BBC had interviews with Turks about the popes visit. ONe girl commented how their country has been always attacked by westerners going back to the crusades.

if l would of been the reporter l would of smacked that girl, and tell her to get real education. l am sick to death of the rants from these muslim appologists, they are forever the victims. well look at the history of turkey. ask what happened to all the Christians who once lived there. ask what happened to the Armenians. European people are so defeated in their thinking of their government, they need to take their strenght that they posess and throw out the bums. unite and elect politicians who understand Europe's plight, and that will allow them to expel muslims who show signs of their extremism.
let Europe turn to the right, and have welfacre reform, no money to immigrants who cannot get a job and support themselves.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 22, 2006 7:49 PM

Because the Pope linked Islam and violence, these people make veiled threats of physical violence and then they act like victims? Islam truly rots the mind.

Posted by: non-redneck at November 22, 2006 8:03 PM

Not to worry niv, an Angel is said to have rescued Saint Constantine as the Turks surrounded him, and found a cave that he could sleep in, untill the day he gets his sword back and drives the Turks out of Greece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ybM3McRsw

Trust me we Greeks have not gone Dhimmi, only a few eclesiastic and political moron dhimmis have.
P.S I am sick and tired of the Muslims are Victims lines, yea the Muslims who destroyed Constantinople, who in more recent years burnt Smyrna to the ground and commited the Armenian Genocide along with the Pontian Genocide, and who today are out to kill all Jews victims?

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 22, 2006 8:09 PM

pissedoffcanadian yes you are so right. I spoke to a history prof at the University of Toronto awhile ago and he said what I already confirmed by studying history. "There were no muslims and no Turks in Turkey (Asia Minor) before 1000-1100 AD).
And the crusades as you all know the muslims were taking over areas of Europe that had never even had contact with them let alone attack them (Asia minor, Spain, Portugal, EGYPT (95% Christian then) and on and on. The crusades called on the Christians from all european lands from Scotland to Germany from France etc to fight these roaches off. The Byzantine Roman Empire had been battling them for years. Muhammed first tested its defenses by attacking a small village. Its in the hadith.
These muslims where arab wanderers out for booty and human lives and conquest. These weren't spritual people, they were butchers who loved to kill families while the captured women were forced to watch the killing of family members (like her father and mother). Muhammed gives instruction about this stuff too. Pure undiluted evil I say.
Not because I am a Christian and proud of it but because the historical and current evidence of Islam screams louder than the any shout of allahu ackbar could ever be. The taking over of hagia sophia was a 9/11 style of attack of that time . The muslims killed people all over the city as soon as they entered

The Ottoman Muslims put the city to sword as they came, and everyone they found in their way they slashed with their scimitars, women and men, old and young, of every condition, and this slaughter continued from dawn until midday. The city was looted for three days, in accordance with the traditional Muslim punishment allotted to a city that had resisted a siege. I wont speak of the blood and rapes and beheadings of children who resisted etc.

The Ottoman Muslinm Turks rushed in. The Christian Emperor, when realising that the end had come ("The City is fallen but I am alive"), discarded his purple cloak and charged into the breach. Christian Emperor Constantine XI himself led the last defense of the city, and throwing aside his purple regalia, dove headfirst into the rushing Ottomans, dying in the ensuing battle in the streets, like his soldiers. Some sources record that he was only recognized afterwards by his purple boots, and others that the Turks were never able to identify his body, and so the last Emperor of Rome was buried in a mass grave along with his soldiers.

Thats why we call men like Constantine XI a saint in my church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_XI

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 8:19 PM

NicephorusPhocas, I know most of us Greeks are not dhimmi. Pissedoffcanadian and the Allies shall win are good examples of some of the Greeks who visit this site regularly.

God Bless everyone who fights against these bastards and I know that when it all comes around it will be the Greeks on the front lines as well as the Jews.

We are the people who have been on the front lines with this scum since day one and that's not going to change. Our fighting spirit is always within us and one day we will take back the Agia Sophia, and what a day that will be.

Niv

Posted by: The fanatic at November 22, 2006 8:20 PM

Ps though his burial according to many sources is assumed not proven. I dont know about the Emperor coming back to drive the muslims out. he will come back along with all the christians on white horses (read the book of revelation) led by Jesus on whose thigh is written faithful and true and who will conquer the wiked with 'the sword from his mouth' . It wont be a good day to be a muslim on the day of judgement thats for sure.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 8:23 PM

I remember some arrogant beard with a fake veneer of piusness state clearly to all the listening future Dhimmis in an Islamic debate on campus that

"Christians and Jews are protected under sharia law - look at the Ottoman Empire"

I remember thinking that if protected means the greatest church (St Sophia) is turned into a mosque then Sharia law needs resisting at all costs - with bloodshed if necessary.

Anytime someone seems persuaded by a bearded one, I ask them to explain what happened to St Sophia....

I usually get called bigoted and racist but then I guess they would know!!!

Posted by: exposesithlords at November 22, 2006 8:29 PM

Will the huge green flag of Islam, with the Qur'anic verse on it, that hangs dominating and claiming all in Hagia Sophia, continue to hang when, and if, the Pope visits?

For if the Pope visits, world-wide cameras will be whirring, and the Infidels of the world will see that green menacing flag laying claim to what was for 500 years the largest and most important church of Christendom, in the city that was for a thousand years the largest, richest, and most important in Christendom, still flies, still menaces, still lays claim. Will the Turkish government, in order to spare itself, and to prevent the further understanding of what Islam is all about, especially by those in Western Europe who are supposed to welcome Turkey into the E. U., at least for the duration of the Pope's visit take down that green flag of Islam?

Or will that green flag continue to menace and lay claim to mastery over Hagia Sophia and over all the Christian sites and Christian peoples of Constantinople, of Turkey, and of the Ottoman Empire, as that flag has symbolically done since round about Tuesday, May 29, 1453?

Posted by: Hugh at November 22, 2006 8:42 PM

"In this battle you must stand firm and have no fear, no thought of flight, but be inspired to resist with ever more herculean strength. Animals may run away from animals. But you are men, men of stout heart, and you will hold at bay these dumb brutes, thrusting your spears and swords into them, so that they will know that they are fighting not against their own kind but against the masters of animals!!!"
Constantinos Paleologos (Constantinople, May 29th 1453)

I think his words stand today for ALL our civilizations here in the democratic free world of the West. As a Canadian of Greek background and a Christian I will fight for Canada till my last breath. Ill be dammed if Shaira law and Islam dominates the beloved maple leaf. NEVER!

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 8:51 PM

the fanatic glad to see that you agree with me. What the West needs is another Nicephorus Phocas to defeat Islam.

I do wonder though what happened to the rest of Europe, when did "Either we shall fight them at the Danube or we shall fight them at the Thames" turn into "Let us unconditionally surrender to them 24/7?"

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 22, 2006 8:51 PM

Islam is the new(old) barbarian at todays gate. Except now we fight for the whole free world. These
islamofascists would turn the world into one big putrid orgy to the pedophile prophet Muhammed. Dont let them. Americans, Canadians, Europeans, Australians, and all the Allies with us move against them by spreading the truth about 'islam'.

Ive personally handed out over 20 politically incorrect guide to Islam to various politicians in Ontario. Even some liberals have a gut instinct that its true about Islam. Once they reach that 20% population threshold in YOUR local province or state or region the radical elements agitate for Shi'ria and the 'moderate' elements meet our request for help with stony silence or some lame taqiyaa style lies.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 8:56 PM

Allies you have managed to get through to leftist thickies? I am impressed immensely well done.

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 22, 2006 8:58 PM

good to see a bunch of greek canadians here. There are so many I know who have succumbed to leftist marxism. glad some of us still know our history.But unfortunately all kids of all backgrounds going thru the PC education system today are getting there heads filled with PC nonsense. I had an argument the other day with a girl at work who could care less if we got rid of christmas. Sometimes I fear these leftist bigots more than muslims. Muslims are brutes I know if we fight them we will win. Its these PC clowns who are destroying our moral and confusing our youth that really scare me.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 22, 2006 9:12 PM

NicephorusPhocas thanks what I do is simple. If I cant meet the person I mail it but if its a local man or woman I meet them if I can. My family has a large business and they usually know my dad so I invite them making sure i use my last name and they think "possible political ally with money". Then if i see they are of French descent or Polish or English I point out what is happening in Europe. I have print outs of newspapers from off the net too.
But the best is the little booklet of "sayings from the quran and hadith" I created. If I see they have even a glint of understanding then I give them a free copy of Mr Spencers book

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 9:13 PM

It is regrettable that the Byzantines didn't blast that place to rubble rather than let those fiends capture it intact and defile it. Too bad it can't be dismantled somehow and shipped to a better place. If it were possible one can imagine the extortionate price demanded for it.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 22, 2006 9:14 PM

Maybe it's just me, but when I see a group kneeling in "Islamic prayer" it just reminds me of a group of Nazis giving the Heil Hitler salute.

Posted by: idahoguy

Dude no, it isn't just you! That's what they were doing in that airport/US AIR flight too! They're giving us the Nazi salute. They know it. We know it. Our "leaders" ignore it. Something has to give.

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 9:24 PM

more on the genocide committed gleefuly by muslims there (WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURES OF INNOCENT CHRISTIANS DYING AND BEING STARVED ETC)

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm

I just read the website linked above. Exactly what is taking place in Sudan right now! They're exterminating the Christians there.

Just remember.. noone speaking up for them now.. nor actively helping.. yes i know there are a few NGOs and some BBC reporters over there once in a while.. But where is heavy military intervention that will create permanent results??

One day soon they will be coming for us. There will be noone left to speak up then. Our own governments are selling us out. We especially in Europe remain unarmed and - for the most part - unskilled to fight.

However the enemy already amongst us has battle experience and often is armed as well.

My logic says they are stealthily digging in "behind enemy lines". And some of them are acting quite brazen already. And the liberals prattle and prattle and prattle on.. yes, my friends, the band played on. Till it marched off the cliff.

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 9:38 PM

Notice in the article its a BIG deal if the pope (a christian) says a prayer in the hagia sophia (church of Holy Wisdom) but these protesting islamofascist scum can pray and proudly because their ancestors slauhtered christians in that city. Truly to be islamic is to love evil and darkness and all the vile baseness human nature can 'revert' to (pun intended).

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN

You should have said 'pervert' to. pun intended here as well.

These are dark times we live in indeed... I do hope all of Europe will do the right thing when the time comes.

It is a dark day indeed when the Greek PM is over in England pushing to get Turkey into the EU.

If we don't act soon St. Peter's will look like Hagia Sophia one day.. the Cologne Cathedral and Notre Dame will suffer the same fate. Westminster Abbey already saw the enemy writhing and hissing outside its doors last Easter. The forces of Evil are strong these days..

They have blinded more than half of our own people.. fed them the poison of PC.. that menatlly disabling soporific.. They have our 'leaders' in their ban.. like a cobra focused on a rabbit.

it is up to all of US to summon the Forces of Light if we are to save ourselves and our lands!

Where is the Mongoose??! Will it have to be India this time to save civilization just when the hordes pour in to take it all down?

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 9:53 PM

They have blinded more than half of our own people.. fed them the poison of PC.. that menatlly disabling soporific.. They have our 'leaders' in their ban.. like a cobra focused on a rabbit.

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 09:53 PM

Actually, PC paved the way for this disaster. It prepared the soil well for the seed to take root and flourish. God knows it fertilized it well.

If the West does disappear the Islamaniacs can errect a monument to PC and its mindless idiot worshippers: "Thank You For Bringing Us Victory-We Couldn't Have Done It Without You".

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 22, 2006 10:07 PM

Read the following link:

http://www.archons.org/news/detail.asp?id=143

but it won't mean the return of Hagia Sophia (regrettably) and the President of Turkey is highly unlikely to approve the Turkish Parliament's determination.

Sod it! Why are we even thinking of letting them into the EU. We must be mad!

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 10:24 PM

See also:

http://www.patriarchate.org/ecumenical_patriarchate/

and

http://www.ec-patr.org/default.php?lang=en

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 10:28 PM

The worst thing about The State of Turkey is that government's and people's refusal to admit to the crimes of their recent ancestors. This seems to be the way with Islam. Their cause is always supremely just, they are always right and superior to all others. Violence, mayhem and death to non-believers" is perfectly OK. Lying about it or anything else is just fine.

It is time for the US to see Turkey for the cancer that it is. We don't need them at all. Support Kurdish claims on Turkey and return the parts of Armenia they stole to the rightful owners.

Posted by: Alexandros at November 22, 2006 10:43 PM

Alexandros/

Turkey is a complete theft - in its entirety! No part of modern-day Turkey belongs to the barbarian moslem horde which currently occupies it. All of it is occupied Christian land.

We, in our weakness, let it go. Sooner, rather than later, we must recover it, and Syria, and the Lebanon, and all of North Africa, and Malaya.

Alternatively, of course, we can just keep on giving in as we did in the southern Sudan, Nigeria, Somalia and, in a just a few more years, Aethiopia.

Oh yes. Let's not fight. Let's just enjoy peace and decline into dhimmitude because it's so much easier. Pour me another cup of tea and hand me another cucumber sandwich and let me just sit here and not think about anything at all.

Freedom? What do I care? Defending it means that I have to get out of my chair and do something. No thanks. Close the door on your way out, please.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 11:07 PM

They entered the once-great cathedral, in its desacralized and appropriated state an international symbol of jihadist aggression and Islamic supremacism, and shouted a threat: "Pope, don't make a mistake, don't wear out our patience."
...............

Haven't they defiled this beautiful place enough?

Posted by: gravenimage at November 22, 2006 11:29 PM

gravenimage/

It is beautiful indeed. Given what has happened in it this Wednesday I am sure that Anthemius of Tralles and Isidore of Miletus, the architects, as far as we know, of this great Church (for, despite everything, it is still a Church no matter what the barbarian moslem horde may claim) must be spinning in their graves.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 11:38 PM

Dominic:
The blessed Ethiopeans will fight for the free man in Africa. Remember they defeated the Italian Fascists in WWII many of them hurling sticks and stones at the vermin. They are also standing up for their kinsmen in Somolia.

The brave in southern Sudan have stood firm against the Islamists who so resemble the Mohammedan henchmen of Turkey. They have even inspired their Muslim, native Africans in the West who also turned against the tyrants and spit in the face of their Sharian oppression.

I have friends in Togo, doctors and medical professionals from America who are operating Christian Clinics of Hope unselfishly, lovingly treating the suffering people. That is why Africans are turning to Christianity in droves in Africa. Compare this to the forced conversions and genocide placed upon them by the Islamists. They know where the Truth lies. Hate does not triumph over love. Do not depspair, my friend.

Posted by: Briars at November 22, 2006 11:46 PM

Briars/

I do hope that you are right. Your words give me, and, I hope, others, so much hope.

Whatever else we do let us at least pray for those Christians, our brothers and sisters, on the front line.

That I am not as sanguine as you about the outcome probably says more about my own cynicism than about reality - and probably says more about the way that I see our own governments operating against those who should be, who are, our allies than is really the case.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 11:57 PM

But the best is the little booklet of "sayings from the quran and hadith" I created. If I see they have even a glint of understanding then I give them a free copy of Mr Spencers book

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN

I would love to see a copy of booklet

Posted by: learnmore at November 23, 2006 12:33 AM

of "the" booklet (reminding myself to proof read before posting)

Posted by: learnmore at November 23, 2006 12:34 AM

If His Holiness Benedict XVI were to be martyred by muslim assassins while in Turkey, it would be their greatest mistake since 9/11. And you can bet that the Holy Father knows that for him and for what is left of Christendom, his journey into the lion's den is therefore a win-win situation.

Posted by: urbanIIredux at November 23, 2006 12:39 AM

its long time for the goverment of turkey to return the Haghia Sophia to the church its not a mosque and if thouse idiots kill the pope with over a billon cathilics in the world and the vatican being a soveran state it dous have the right and funds to form its own armed forces and if the turks kill the pope there will be a blood bath of muslim blood

Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 23, 2006 1:01 AM

so what!!! its democracy there, they secular no religious activity is allowed there

Posted by: eastwest at November 23, 2006 2:27 AM

If you watched the video PoPe Phobia you'd know what these people are talking about

http://cyberray-rays.blogspot.com/2006/11/pope-phobia.html

Posted by: Cyberray at November 23, 2006 2:40 AM

idahoguy,

Me too. Their zombiesque rocking, the menacing beard , the savagely unkind look in their eyes and the dead minds that is never ever receptive to reason and logic....

Posted by: Crows&Cows at November 23, 2006 4:21 AM

Nikephoros,
thanks for the info about the usage in Greek of turkify [= to become Muslim] that you put on my blog. I wasn't able to acknowledge it at the time since "moderate comments" was on and I didn't know how to use it then, unfortunately.

Now, about Greece, Israel, and Lebanon. When the Greeks were driven out of Smyrna and its hinterland in 1922, it wasn't simply because Ataturk had a better army. The Supreme Allied Council stopped the successful Greek advance in Anatolia in 1920, ordering the Greek army to stop along a line was difficult to defend. After two years like that, Ataturk had been able to rearm and regroup and retrain the Turkish nationalist forces, which he himself called ghazi or jihadist, at that time, before he declared himself in favor of modernizing and secularizing Turkey. The point is that Ataturk's victory was aided by the Western powers that dominated the Supreme Allied Council [or whatever the exact title was].

Likewise, victorious Israeli forces have been stopped several times over the years by the UN which was dominated, especially in its early years, by Western powers. This happened as early as 1948. In fact, in the battle for Jaffa [Yafo] in 1948, British tanks and fighter planes came to the aid of the Arabs in fighting the Jews. In 1949, British fighter planes fought Israeli fighter planes in the el-Arish area, as Britain demanded an Israeli retreat from that area which Britain wanted Egypt to keep. Instead of that, Britain could have let Israel keep that area as a bargaining chip for future peace negotiations.

Similar events occurred in Lebanon, even before the civil war began in full force in 1975. But the Lebanese situation is so complicated and I don't have so much time. But I do want to ask what the Western position was on the Cairo agreement of 1970 or 1971, which gave the PLO a state within a state status in Lebanon?
What was the Western position during the civil war? What influence did the USA and Britain have on the Taif Agreement which facilitated Syrian occupation of Lebanon? Are the main Western powers really interested now in getting Syria out of Lebanon, in an independent Lebanon?

Posted by: Eliyahu at November 23, 2006 4:53 AM

the last issue of the German weekly Spiegel brings a huge article about the Popes visit to Turkey and comments how necessary it would be to have someone around the Pope able and capable of telling him he has done a mistake with his speech in Regensburg. Not a single line of criticism of the Turkey clerics comparing the Pope with Hitler and Mussolini.

I think people visiting Jihad Watch should not have any illusions: the majority of Europeans may be reluctant about Turkey joining Europe, but they are still light years away from realization of the fact that the Moslem world is in war with Europe (and the rest of the world), about to take over Europe. The vast majority of European politicians do not want to acknowledge this, they don´t see it, they believe Islam could be appeased if they continue feeding it with morsels of Christianity at Europe´s periphery (by giving away slices of Serbian territory, see Bosnia, see Kosovo) and let´s face it: those politicians have been democratically elected and still enjoy support of the majority.

Just yesterday on my way to work I listened to radio (in Frankfurt , Germany), announcing Islam is now part of school curriculum in several German regions, and the great thing, according to those idiots , is that all will be conducted in German language! Those teachers of Islam hired and nicely paid by the German state are all Moslems , but everything is fine, since they all received a special training making sure they will promote the peaceful version of Islam. Also, they will work to amend the prejudices about Islam. The biggest problem, according to this broadcasting, is that the German state cannot hire enough Moslem teachers for Islam lessons in German schools!!!

Let´s face it: this is not Europe that will support Christians on European periphery or in the Middle East. Situation may change in 50 years, or so, when the whole Europe becomes one huge Kosovo, when the Western Europeans experience themselves the Muslim violence that Ortodox Christians and Middle East Christians and Jews have been exposed to for ages. It is desperate.

Posted by: Serbian girl at November 23, 2006 6:37 AM

Isn't this party the same as the party named the Gray Wolves? That creep who tried to kill pope JOhn Paul 11 belonged to that group and who is now serving time in jail in Turkey.

I applaud the pope for not being afraid to travel to turkey even though he has been threatened by the muslims. He is not intimidated by the threats and should not be.

Muslims could shoot off their mouths all they want, it is ok. But, if an Christian speaks up against islamic nutjobs , he/she is labeled a racist, bigot, held under blashemy laws, etc.

Turkey is just another corrupt, islamic cesspool. It always was and always will be.

Posted by: callmeinfidel at November 23, 2006 9:04 AM

LEARNMORE

The booklet I have created is basically about 35 printout pages from various websites quoting mostly the quran and hadith on topics of Jihad, marriage to little girls, the idea of a world dominated by caliphite (as it is in the quran/hadith) etc. Basically you could recret my 'booklet' if you had the links to the websites. The sites range from ali sina (re: aiesha) to a few others.

here are the links I use to print it up:
on spread of islam

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main///BehindVeil/btv2.html

on jihad and related
http://www.blessedcause.org/Quran.htm

On women:
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main///Authors/Arlandson/women_slaves.htm
on the 9 year old 'wife' of muhammed
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm

If you want to reproduce the booklet I use its the above links (I usually number all the pages and add a table of contents then have it bound for a few dollars at the print shop). I only give Mr Spencer's book to them if I see they 'get it' otherwise there is no reason to waste a perfectly good Politically incorrect guide to Islam on them.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 23, 2006 9:57 AM

callmeinfidel yes it is! if it was just some small group we wouldnt worry but the Grey Wolves have a friendship with the 'secular' govt that goes to the highest levels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves

plus they have been traced to setting fires in Greek forests (mainly because they resent that Greece is in infidel hands --remember as Mr Spencer says once Islam has had an area or I believe died fighting there or lived there its considered Islamic land)

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/ant1en/1996/96-11-29.ant1en.html

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 23, 2006 10:02 AM

there are many radical islamic 'elements' roaming California thats for sure. There's a school there that had children act like muslims for class credit
(I think they did pretend prayers to allah etc)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25997

california as is florida has its islamic fascists

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006560.php

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 23, 2006 10:25 AM

Hagia Sophia belongs to the Orthodox Christians and Greece.

Posted by: EliasAlucard at November 23, 2006 10:50 AM

well in greece any mosque there that was built by the occupying ottomans should be Destroyed and turned to a church and if any Turk lovers say its racist then what about agia sophia ?

Posted by: Greek Gurl at November 23, 2006 5:40 PM

In 1453, when the City fell, the Holy and Divine Liturgy was being celebrated in the Great Church by hierarchs of East and West combined. Pious legend, which I believe, has it that the walls opened to receive them before the Liturgy was finished as the jihadist pigs entered the Church and the walls will reopen when we take back the Church and the Liturgy will be finished. God speed the day!

Posted by: jovan66102 at November 23, 2006 6:03 PM

Wasn't it enough that that monster, the so called sultan mehmet II entered the church on HORSEBACK ? That those hordes pillaged that beautiful church, and destroyed all those works of art, because they thought of them as "idolatrous" ? Those stupid barbarians, they were OUR icons and THEY were sacred to US. We don't care abou their idiotic "rules" regarding "idoloatry "? If anyone remembers those taliban blowing up Buddha statues, he should remember that maniacs like that have done the same countless times to every object or monument of all the religions they supposedly "respected".
BTW, does anyone know where in Europe could I obtain "The Truth about Muhammad" ?

Thanks !

Posted by: deusvult at November 24, 2006 3:06 AM

The Divine Litirgy of St John Chrysostom will be heard from inside Hagia Sophia once again !

For all you Greeks and other who know the motto -
ELEUTHERIA I THANATOS !

Posted by: deusvult at November 24, 2006 3:13 AM

"Turkish converts on trial for converting to christianity"
http://www.aina.org/news/20061123205803.htm

I guess that proves Turkey is truly secular.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 24, 2006 6:45 AM

In 1996 during the Imia insident one cousin of me was doing his national service in the Greek Army. He told me that the day that after the alert went off, the soldiers were angry because we didn't attacked the f..cking turks. That's the spirit in the Greek Army, and it was more or less the same when I did my National Service. The time for a war between Greece & Turkey is very close. Turkey will not get EU entrance. The German and French goverment will block the process (the best that they could do). The Turks will have no other option, since they will not be able to put huge numbers of Turks in Greece in order to gain control (through the EU), but to attack Greece. That's where they get f..cked!!!

I'am really afraid that the safety of Pope and of the Patriarch is in danger. If anything happens to them, then most of the world would really like to give a good f..ck to this hilarious muslim country called turkey....

Posted by: AllahIsDead at November 24, 2006 8:29 AM

"Turkish converts on trial for converting to christianity"

Unfortunately none of mainstream media, at least here in Germany, will mention this, let alone recognize the potential to turn this news into a top story...

Posted by: Serbian girl at November 24, 2006 8:46 AM

I was raised a protestant with an unknown (for it's source) fascination for Catholicism.

When the Pope made his speech in Germany, it aroused my curiosity. I checked out the book, "Without Roots" and read it.
This Pope knew what he was doing in speaking out against the lack of reason and peace in Islam.

Later a post on JW sent me looking for info on "Our Lady of Fatima". I found an interesting site dedicated to the third secret.
It's is also interesting to note that(according to this site) one of the Keepers of this alleged letter was Card. Ratzinger.
He is a very brave man indeed to paint a target on his chest and go into the den of evil.
I hope the world news media have their cameras on when he is in Turkey. I would like the miracles that we are likely to witness to be recorded.

In the 1980's the USA shipped the entire or most of the US Embassy in Russia (USSR then) back to the US so we could find out how they bugged the very building during it's construction. Maybe there is hope for the Church in Constantinople (refuse to call it anything else) after all.

Posted by: auntbea at November 24, 2006 11:32 AM

jovan66102/

There is also a superstition (belief?) that the faces of those celebrating the Divine Liturgy as The City fell appear each Easter on the lower walls of the south-eastern squinch of the great dome and that they are frowning and weeping.

Tradition has it that that the Easter when they appear smiling and raising their hands in praise and prayer will be the last Easter that any moslems remain alive on Earth. Further, the Fathers will only weep for a thousand years - a scant 300 years to go then!

If only!

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 24, 2006 11:01 PM