Weird that they are fakes, i would have assumed that all the Plundered/looted artifacts from Iraq museums after Saddam's fall is what has been making it's way on Ebay.

The West should be a boycott on all goods from Islamic states from the Mid East. which pretty much means Everone and anything. i won't send a red penny of my money to any Mid East co, or product. i won't support my own demise.

Posted by: DUGGY at November 22, 2006 6:34 PM

I'm not surprised that these monsters would use fake relics to fund terrorism, as it's just one example of how corrupt this system of government/religion is.

Posted by: champ at November 22, 2006 6:35 PM

When a religion sanctions the use of lies to achieve its goals (in marriage reconciliations, in luring enemies in order to kill them), it speaks a lot about that religion. So, selling fakes is just one of the things, as long as one can justify it with jihad. Same for growing poppies and selling them to the "decadent West". Muslims aren't supposed to drink, yet they have no qualms about owning liquor stores.

Al-Mahdi & Antichrist

Posted by: yaqub at November 22, 2006 6:37 PM

oops......one "more" example.

Posted by: champ at November 22, 2006 6:37 PM

It's "The stuff that dreams are made of."

Posted by: Pelayo at November 22, 2006 6:42 PM

I have a solution, go to iraq and pick up an arab dagger, fake or not it will mean something to you.

Posted by: Ronin at November 22, 2006 6:45 PM

Could be from under the Temple Mount? The "paleos" are digging the whole foundation out from under the Temple Mount. Trying so hard to deny the existence of ancient Israel.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 22, 2006 6:46 PM

Look at the bright side - the jahaliya heritage of the ummah now comes under the custodial protection of... Infidels, who are likely to do a better job taking care of it.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 22, 2006 6:48 PM

They have Hagia Sophia paperweights on e-Bay? Damn.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 22, 2006 6:50 PM

Anyone buying or making donations to anything from the mid-east should know that their money is only going towards their own demise.

I've told my family and friends that they should never go as a tourist to any place that is Islamic. Far too many Greeks visit Turkey, I understand why, but they should know why not.

When Pakistan had it's earthquake and everyone and their dog here were donating money to the earthquake fund, I completely refused.

Big surprise a few months later someone cracked the case and discovered that money was being transferred to terrorists. AKA to scum bags shooting our brothers and sisters in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Please people stop going to Bali, Egypt, Turkey and places like that, you're only helping the enemy.

Niv

Posted by: The fanatic at November 22, 2006 6:55 PM

As a Christian of the Eastern Orthodox church it never ceases to bug me that Islam has that beautiful chruch in their grubby little hands. If America was to take over some of the holy sites in Arabia PERMANENTLY I bet there would be an outcry of "bigots" etc but when Christians in Greece or other parts of the world bring the matter up the Turkey press is always quick to brand them as "bigots" and as "fanatics". May the God of Israel rain hellfire on you islamic scum.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 7:12 PM

Whom pray tell buys any crap on ebay? I guess the old saying goes' sucker born every minute!

Posted by: AMartinez at November 22, 2006 7:28 PM

Allies,

I'm with you. We'll get it back when Jesus comes again. It is a rather sore wound that seems to continually have the scab picked off.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 22, 2006 7:32 PM

Isabella Im with you and I agree with you in the Lord as it is written when two or more of you agree on Earth it shall be done in heaven.

That church was dedicated to "holy wisdom" of God and when built the Christian emperor actually dedicated it to ALL christians for ALL times.

Alot of stuff will change when Jesus comes back --where will Muhammed be then (same place he is now see link below).

In our faith Christ's blood sacrifice bought us out of sin by faith in his work (Romans 3:23-25) --we do not have to kill anyone or work for it (christians work to grow in Christ not to be saved phil 2:12-13). I have found that all Christian churches have these doctrines in common and it ENRAGES muslims when they hear them (oh that and the belief in the Trinity and divinity of Christ --muslims call it 'shirk') . But its these beliefs that show if there is any spark of the divine coming to us it was via Christ not some evil pedophile warlord.

muhammed meets allah!! click on link below and scroll down to the thrid picture from top. Allah welcomes Muhammed!

http://www.kafirnation.com/cartoons.htm

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 22, 2006 7:52 PM

To anyone trying to buy any relic that was once in Constantinople don't even try.

In 1453 the Turks destroyed all relics that once had a home in Constantinople.

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 22, 2006 8:18 PM

I forgot to add, they also defilled all of the bodies of the Byzantine Emperors/Patriarchs and everyone else burried in the catacombs of the city.

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 22, 2006 8:19 PM

"In 1453 the Turks destroyed all relics that once had a home in Constantinople."

I think Kasper Gutman and Joel Cairo should have known that.

Posted by: Pelayo at November 22, 2006 8:27 PM

And why are we allowing Middle Eastern ASSES to even be on OUR internet? Let Alone put things on E-Bay!

From article:
….”are being sold to innocent collectors and tourists for up to £2,000 each.”

I don’t know, if I had a dead corpse of a nine year old would all the true Muslims line up to breed with it?
Maybe someone should do it as a joke and send all proceeds to JW!

I for one am not okay with leaving this problem to the next generation.

Hey Washington, WTF!?!?

Posted by: weekendhammerman at November 22, 2006 8:29 PM

Hey The Allies Shall win,

A very Happy Thanksgiving to you, my friend, as well as to everyone here. I've gotta go because if I don't stop posting I'll never get my cooking finished on time for tomorrow!

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 22, 2006 8:37 PM

I agree Peleyo the morons should have known that it was fake.

Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 22, 2006 8:40 PM

these muslim terrorists would sell their grandmother, wife, kids to bring money for their murderous scummie schemes.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 22, 2006 8:48 PM

Miserable vultures trying to make a buck off of everything. They hate the Great Satan but brother they love its money.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 22, 2006 9:10 PM

I've told my family and friends that they should never go as a tourist to any place that is Islamic. Far too many Greeks visit Turkey, I understand why, but they should know why not.

Greeks should visit there with guns in their hands.. ideally they'd be aided by a force comprised of Germans, British, Spanish, Polish and, oh I forgot.. French. just kidding.. :-) Reclaim Konstantinopoulos for Greece as befits the birthplace of Modern Europe!

Push the turks back east of the Bosporus where they belong.

is this something the EU could ever agree on instead of all their nonsense they come up with daily??!!

The feet of the turks defile Konstantinopoulos and the churches it holds daily! Who cries out for justice over that?! How dare they take our churches hostage and then defile them and we stay silent? How dare we not say anything for so long?!

I agree with the poster who said WHY are the islamo countries even on the internet? did they invent it? I thought it was that famous and proud American Al Gore.

One thing IS certain: the Middle east has NOTHING to do with this invention! Nor with any other invention i have ever heard of. Once a head is filled with those satanic verses called the koran the sura and the hadith there's no room left for anything else!

It's the most complete brainwash every invented! THAT is the ONLY thing that islam has ever invented successfully! Not a computer virus but a human brain virus. A virus that is nearly impossible to deprogram. And the logic is so convoluted that it takes a Robert Spencer to break it down for the "stupid Westerners" - most of whom have misgivings about islam and who keep trying to talk themselves out of these misgivings for fear of the can of worms these politically incorrect thoughts would open up!

Posted by: germaninamerica at November 22, 2006 9:20 PM

Let us not get too excited here. First off, fakes have always been with us. Selling to gullible tourists has been a hallmark of just about every civilisation, and the islamic cultures (if they can be called that), for the last three thousand years.

Fakes are a huge problem for we archaeologists and for museums, and galleries of all descriptions, everywhere - and they always have been. May I refer you to a few websites which might give you some insight, if you have the time to follow the links, into the problems:

http://www.sgallery.net/news/12_2004/20.php

http://www.ipl.org/div/kelsey/

http://www.sbl-site.org/Article.aspx?ArticleId=374

http://www.visiontv.ca/Media/Releases/Naked_Archaeologist_Oct%20.html

http://members.bib-arch.org/nph-proxy.pl/000000A/http/www.basarchive.org/bswbSearch.asp=3fPubID=3dBSBA&Volume=3d23&Issue=3d2&ArticleID=3d10&UserID=3d0&

and for an excellent guide to what the interested layman should do when confronted with an archaeological find see:

http://www.uwlax.edu/MVAC/PointGuide/PointGuide.htm

although that site deals with 'Common Projectile Points of the Upper Mississippi River Valley' its good advice can, and should, be extrapolated by all to cover any finds that you may make. Robert Boszhardt is an expert in his field and a good archaeologist. Expand upon his wisdom and follow his advice!

The worry here is not archaeological fakes as such. We, in the field of study, know about this problem and live with it and deal with it. The worry is about the seeming change in those who are perpetrating these frauds and the reasons for such perpetrations.

In the past frauds were mainly aimed at the credible and the gullible by skilled artisans who were only interested in making a buck or two (or, one must confess, several bucks) in order to enjoy a better lifestyle; in other words, ordinary forgery for ordinary criminal aims and purposes.

Now, however, we are confronted by the industrial scale faking of artifacts - still sold to the credible and the gullible - but with the aim of making money in order to support terrorist activities. This is a worrying development - politically, not archaeologically - because it has several implications. First, the skilled artisans who used to forge artifacts in a limited way to sell to gullible collectors have obviously been subsumed into the islamist terrorist network. Second, such artifacts are, to my certain knowledge, and forged though they definitely are, being used to rewrite history in favour of the islamist position - that is to say that many of these artifacts aren't just forgeries but also inventions of things that never did exist. Third, the damage done to the public's perception of archaeological science and its practioners is very hard to undo once these lying and cheating islamists get their teeth into my science. (Sorry, that last was a personal cry from the heart.)

The reason that I, and other archaeologists, am not worried about fakes too much is that we have many, many scientific methods of proving, or disproving, a supposed artifact's age. That there are now so many of them is, of course, worrying and is adding to the workload of forensic archaeologists and dating experts at an alarming rate. However, I still maintain that the most worrying aspect of this story is that the profits from this type of organised, industrial scale, forgery are going to the islamists.

You can help here. Just remember that if you are offered a bargain artifact at a price that seems too good to be true then it really is too good to be true. Oh, and by-the-way, always use a reputable dealer in archaeological relics - it's only a small guarantee for dealers can be fooled too, but at least the reputable ones operate to a very high standard and do try very hard to ascertain provenance and genuiness and they usually carry insurance which will at least ensure that you recover your investment - and, naturally, that they don't lose either. Also, please remember that some fakes, indeed, many fakes, once the artist or artisan has been identified, acquire a collectability value in their own right - they can be seen, especially those by the master forgers, as works of art expressing some quintessential aspect of the objects which they seek to imitate. In other words, if you get conned don't just smash your fake artifact and dump it in the rubbish (garbage) for it may have a value as a fake - and that value can be surprisingly high.

However, do warn others about where you bought the fake for, as this story shows, you may be inadvertently supporting our enemies - and that none of us want to do.

Finally, if you are lucky enough to have assembled a collection of archaeological artifacts, no matter how insignificant you might think your collection to be, please, please, please - oh so very please - make due provision for your collection in your last will and testament for you may have found, or bought, something much more important than you might know.

Happy collecting.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 9:21 PM

By-the-way, Robert Boszhardt, when I first heard of him back in 2003, was associate director of the Mississippi Valley Archaeology Center, University of Wisconsin-La Crosse. He had spent more than twenty years as an archaeologist in this area, and he had a strong interest in public archaeology.

He's published two books to my knowledge:

1. Projectile Point Guide for the Upper Mississippi River Valley
ISBN: 0877458707 - Paperback - List Price: $14.95
Publisher: Univ of Iowa Pr - Published Date: 10/01/2003 - Paperback
Author: Robert F. Boszhardt

2. Twelve Millennia: Archaeology of the Upper Mississippi River Valley
ISBN: 0877458472 - Paperback - List Price: $27.95
Publisher: Univ of Iowa Pr - Published Date: 05/01/2003 - Paperback
Authors: James L. Theler and Robert F. Boszhardt

I, and all my peers, think that he is trustworthy.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 9:40 PM

Thanks for that Dominic. A good reminder that we are only the temporary owners of this planet and it's artifacts.

Posted by: Ronin at November 22, 2006 9:46 PM

Oh, and don't trust Wikipedia on the subject of fakes. We archaeologists, and the curators of our public, and private, collections, have very many reasons to suspect that many of the articles therein are written by the forgers and fakers in a deliberate attempt to mislead (like the Ring of Theseus entries - which are total fabrications) and are, therefore, not trustworthy.

I don't have details to hand but if I find them in the next few hours I'll post them. Notwithstanding, it's a good idea to always cross-check, if one can, any Wikipedia entry.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 10:49 PM

Forged archaeological artefacts traded on internet auction sites such as eBay are helping to fund international terrorism, it was disclosed today.
........

Yeah, well I knew all that jahaliya had to be good for something.

(sarcasm off)

Posted by: gravenimage at November 22, 2006 11:20 PM

All Your Fakes Are Belong To Us

Posted by: Muzzl'em at November 22, 2006 11:36 PM

Ronin/

Indeed we are. And like good farmers we must pass the land of our endeavours on to our descendants in good order - we must, to employ a Christian metaphor, winnow the grain from the chaff and pass on only the true seed - the accurate, verifiable knowledge.

Thank-you.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 22, 2006 11:45 PM

Interesting. I wonder how hard it would be to forge up something good "only for private collection by believing individuals in Saudi Arabia". A nation so intolerant deserves to pay a little jizya itself.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at November 23, 2006 2:01 AM

I'm in MSP. You have any local museums to recommend? Only reason I ever went down La Cross way was to view the Big Birds, but antiquity is of interest to anybody with a mind to care.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at November 23, 2006 2:32 AM

I try not to patronize any clearly-Muslim entities here in NYC, so that my money doesn't flow directly to Pakistan, or any other place that's likely to kill us if given half a chance. But it's hard, when every time you get into a cab you're driven by Muhammad or Achmed or Jamal. I watch those eagerly lining up at the roach-coach, painted to look like a Parisian street scene, except for the Arabic writing all over it, and shake my head. Probably bucks-for-the-jihad flowing from it. (Sure hope SOMEONE has them on their radar.)

Alarmed-Pig-Farmer: SO glad to hear you hail from that part of the country. Good to know that the voice of reason still exists there (you wouldn't know it from the news). And, gee, I wonder if all of those Indian arrowheads we used to dig up in our yard while growing up in Wisconsin where valuable? Dang; we just tossed 'em aside!

And lastly (but certainly not least), in addition to all else, love your intros and asides to the articles you post, Robert. Great sense of humor.

Posted by: Vee at November 23, 2006 10:24 AM

I'm a hardass! I love Mediterranean food and, thus, use a lot of olive oil. I make damn sure my "imported" oil comes from a Western country and is not a mixture. Not many years ago, "imported" olive oil came from Italy or Spain. Now it's Turkey, Tunisia, etc. Pay attention when you buy anything. Don't fund the jihad!

Posted by: jovan66102 at November 23, 2006 5:52 PM

Alarmed Pig Farmer/

If by MSP you mean Minneapolis St. Paul (please forgive me if I am wrong - I'm English in England and guessing) then please go to any of the following links:

http://www.twincitiestours.com/arts_museums.html

http://www.museumlink.com/minnesot.htm

http://www.wcities.com/en/cat/277/162/category.html

http://www.december.com/places/msp/museums.htmlhttp://www.minnesotamonthly.com/media/Minnesota-Monthly/Travel-Leisure/Historic-Minnesota/index.php

A quote from the last site -

"The Minneapolis Institute of Arts, which first opened its doors in 1915, carries one of the most comprehensive collections in the United States. Virtually 5,000 years of World history are examined through Rembrandt paintings, Greek sculptures and one of the nation’s largest displays of classical Chinese art and architecture, just to name a few highlights. To fit its ever-increasing collection, the museum recently added a $50 million, 113,000-square-foot wing designed by Michael Graves. In June 2006, the new addition opened to the public together with The Surreal Calder, a stunning exhibition of 70 works by American sculptor Alexander Calder and the artists who informed his style."

Hope this helps. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at November 23, 2006 9:42 PM