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WND speaks to a 23-year-old member of Palestinian Islamic Jihad. "'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber': Recruited attacker for terror group talks to WND about 'serving Allah by blasting unbelievers to hell,'" by Aaron Klein:
WND: Tell me about your life and what you do with your free time.BOMBER: I study at a West Bank university and I have great hopes of getting married within the next couple of months. My life is very normal. I watch television, particularly news, and historical and religious programs. From time to time I play soccer and lift weights.
WND: Is your family poor?
BOMBER: No. We are regular but far from being wealthy. I share my bedroom with my brothers but now there is less pressure because last summer one of my brothers was married and moved to live outside.
WND: Why do you want to become a suicide bomber?
BOMBER: I originally decided to become a martyr after I saw what the Israeli army did in the refugee camp of Jenin in the big military campaign of April, 2002.
But this idea became stronger when I understood what status I will have in heaven if I scarify [sic; probably "sacrifice" is meant -- RS] myself for Allah. Every time somebody else dies as a martyr in a suicide bomb attack, I pray for him but I feel jealous. I want to be where he is now and I pray that Allah will one day offer me this occasion and this honor.
[Editor's note: The potential bomber was referring to an Israeli anti-terror raid in his hometown of Jenin in 2002 in which Palestinian leaders accused the Jewish state of a "massacre," claiming the Israeli Defense Forces killed over 500 Palestinian civilians, including many women and children.
It was later determined 56 Palestinians, mostly gunmen, were killed in the raid, which followed a series of deadly suicide attacks inside Israel that were reportedly planned and directed from the terror infrastructure in Jenin. Twenty-three Israeli soldiers died in the Jenin battle, in which IDF troops conducted house-to-house searches to minimize civilian casualties by avoiding air attacks.]
WND: Is your main motivation for becoming a bomber is to serve Allah?
BOMBER: Yes, of course. Allah gave Muslims the possibility to gain their prize and payment in different ways. There are those (Muslims) who pray and fast only and respect Allah's commandments, and there are those who wish a higher prize. And the highest prize is given to those who scarify themselves, their lives, their bodies and everything in this world.
WND: What you are saying is interesting because a lot of academics in the United States and many of my colleagues in the media claim Palestinians become suicide bombers because they are poor and desperate and because of so-called Israeli occupation. Are you telling me these are not the reasons you want to blow yourself up amongst Israelis?
BOMBER: The will to scarify myself for Allah is the first and most major reason. It is true that the Zionists are occupying our lands and that it is our religious duty to fight them, including through suicide attacks. The goal is not the killing of the Jews, but that this is the way to reach Allah.
The goal is satisfying Allah and his instructions. No money interests, nothing. No brainwash, no pressure; it is my decision. All the other lies are pathetic Israeli propaganda.
I pray that Allah gives me the honor to be dead in an operation. This is the supreme and the noblest way to ascend to Allah.
These martyrs have special status in the next world and have bigger chances to watch Allah's face and enjoy the magnificent pleasures he offers us.
WND: Did I hear you say your goal is not to kill Jews? Isn't that exactly what you will do as a suicide bomber?
BOMBER: Maybe the fact that I was born here has sharpened my religious conscience, but I believe that even if I was in Chechnya, in Iraq, Afghanistan on anywhere else I would want to be a martyr.
It is Allah's satisfaction that is important to me no matter where I live. But as we live in this part of the world the way to reach Allah for me is through fighting the Zionist enemy. It is the jihad, the sacrificing that is important.
Read it all. And then ask yourself, what is CAIR doing, what is MPAC doing, what are all the self-proclaimed moderate Muslims doing to counter among Muslims the idea that killing Jews will bring them to Paradise?
Posted by Robert at November 24, 2006 2:30 PM
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I hope he gets his 72 virginians...
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 24, 2006 2:42 PM
"BOMBER: I study at a West Bank university and I have great hopes of getting married within the next couple of months. My life is very normal."
Which of course mean being a suicide bomber. Come on Ahmed, study hard and get good grades so you can get a good job .. OTH never mind. You may as well cut classes and forget the homework.
Posted by: johnb at November 24, 2006 2:43 PM
Q:
"And then ask yourself, what is CAIR doing, what is MPAC doing, what are all the self-proclaimed moderate Muslims doing to counter among Muslims the idea that killing Jews will bring them to Paradise?"
A: Precious little. Could it be that a majority of the "moderates" quietly condone the actions of their brethren? Just asking.
at November 24, 2006 2:47 PM
Good riddance the world is better off with out him and those like him in it. Are we supposed to be shocked at this clowns courage and commitment? I am not, it takes real courage to stand and fight and none to simple roll over and die. Suicide is a coward’s way out. You have a beef with the Israelis? Then stand your ground, coward. I have said it many times, islam has no warriors and they continuously prove me right.
Posted by: Ronin at November 24, 2006 2:57 PM
"Scarify" would seem to be a variation of "terrify," if I might clarify. Indeed, primary jihad events like 9/11 instill terror, while a lone suicide bombing like Grandma Fatima's effort, which resulted in just a few scratches and scrapes for the IDF soldiers, rather simply scares us.
And you thought these Neanderthals had little capacity for language.
at November 24, 2006 3:03 PM
"...I have great hopes of getting married within the next couple of months..."
Someone should give him Louise Arbour's phone number.
Posted by: Josephine at November 24, 2006 3:11 PM
"'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'"
Here is a preveiw of the highest prize that is given to those who scarify themselves,
enjoy
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/02/x-rated.html
Posted by: shiva at November 24, 2006 3:12 PM
QUOTE FROM ROBERT SPENCER:
"Read it all."
Im sure most of you here have done so but for anyone who hasnt read the whole thing!!
The part where he9the suicide bomber scumbag) basically says he will have all the sex in paradise that you people (nonmuslims) have down here says it all. its all lust and sex with these idiots he doesnt realize that killing for sex is far more indicative that he is immorally controlled by his sexual urges than any sexually active person on earth. he HAS to kill for the 72 whores! (Virgins yes yes their hymens are miraculously refomed to virgin states after each sexual encounter --according to the muslim scriptures they are virgins forever).
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 24, 2006 3:13 PM
"Read it all" would be an understatement.
This man is starring in his own snuff film. Murdering people for the sake of (promised) orgasm. That's basically what the Islamic idea of ultimate martyrdom amounts to. The apologists can spin this all they want but in the end, this is what Islam comes down to. Killing people in order to achieve the (theoretically) ultimate orgasm (via the 72 virgins).
Islam - the snuff film religion!
Real Muslim shaheeds report - you decide....
Posted by: Caroline at November 24, 2006 3:15 PM
I emailed the writer and thanked him. I don't know how he kept his cool during that interview. I think I would have had a stroke.
Posted by: Josephine at November 24, 2006 3:21 PM
From the article: "We just follow what we are demanded in the Quran to do because if we do not do so we will be attacked, occupied, controlled and killed by these enemies of Islam." George? Are you listening? Dick, are you finished slapping backs in Saudi Arabia? OT, Robert or Hugh, why don't we have a Manhattan project for energy independence so we can stop this jizya??
Posted by: Galloglass Warrior at November 24, 2006 3:22 PM
ALLIES - we're on the same page. Sick. Sick. Sick. Sick. Sick. Sick.
And frankly, does anyone know of another supposed religion that is this darned sick? Flawed maybe. But this darned sick??
Naseem, Haidon, ANY Muslim or Muslim apologist - weigh in here please! Is he wrong in his fantasies or isn't this precisely what Muhammad promised him?
Posted by: Caroline at November 24, 2006 3:23 PM
LOL. Thanks a lot, Shiva, for the gratuitous "stimulation."
I'm pretty certain I'll never get some of those downright disturbing images out of my mind, but I'm not similarly having any trouble losing my lunch. I had ham.
Regards,
HAID
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at November 24, 2006 3:25 PM
"'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'"
You should think again,and take a look at what your Mullahs are up to
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/06/sex-and-islam.html
Fanatical muslims and people suffering from PC may find the above link as offensive It is intended to be objective and it`s purpose is purely informative and educational.
But I will add this post will prove that muslims are hypocrites
Posted by: shiva at November 24, 2006 3:28 PM
"its all lust and sex with these idiots..."
You may be right "THE ALLIES SHALL WIN". Meanwhile, those pesky "youths" are at it again. Yep, it's still happening.
at November 24, 2006 3:40 PM
Re: 'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I want to be a suicide bomber'
I'm reminded of the program "What's my line"? as I read this. Just imagine the panel taking off their blind-folds after failing to identify the work of the contestant and seeing a guy with bombs strapped to him. I can see everybody running for their lives from the studio. Reality tv at its best. Stay tuned.
'Hi, my name is Ahmed and I'm a suicide bomber'
at November 24, 2006 3:46 PM
Islam -- religion of peace? I guess Muslims believe that by killing every last human being on earth that we will finally have "peace on earth" because there won't be anyone left to fight with. Now I get it!
Posted by: champ at November 24, 2006 4:09 PM
Okay now to be a serious
From what I have experienced sex for a virgin in most cases is bloody and painful.I am a guy and have been a girls first sexual partner a couple of times. I found that for the first few minutes they found it really painful, not to a point were they were screaming in agony, but had to grip the bed etc etc
This whole thing about 72 virgins just goes to show what a sick mindset muslims have and how little they know about women,and they are void of any respect for females.
So this skumbag after years in this world of faith, restraint and patience, strives to enjoy Allah's pleasures and inflict pain upon women forever
Posted by: shiva
at November 24, 2006 4:19 PM
Shiva -- in other words -- you're a lowsy lover.
Posted by: champ at November 24, 2006 4:32 PM
How will Islam continue after we are all converted or dead? There won't be anyone left to pay the jizzyah (sorry if I misspelled that). There won't be anyone left to kill to give them a free admission to heaven. They would be reduced to finding apostates within their own ranks, hastening the end of the species known as Muslim. What would Ahmed do then? What will women raise their children to be? Islam looks more and more like the predator that will cause its own demise because it will eat everything there is and produce nothing to take its place.
Posted by: PMK at November 24, 2006 5:34 PM
http://www.kafirnation.com/handout/39%20Ways%20to%20Serve%20and%20Participate.pdf
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at November 24, 2006 5:51 PM
What? No Trolls on this thread???
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at November 24, 2006 5:53 PM
Does this article have any authentication to distinguish it from a complete or partial fabrication?
Knowing what I do it is difficult to believe a muslim could speak like that- they don't.
Yet you all swallow it whole without question.
Suicide is forbidden in Islam, the punishment is Hell, why would anyone think otherwise?
The 2 MAIN EFFECTS of this "scary terrorist threat" story are; dividing the citizens against eachother and, allowing world governments to seize money, power, and land.
Don't you think the effect the bombings HAVE HAD could be the effect the BOMBERS WANTED?
at November 24, 2006 6:22 PM
What a wonderful religion Islam is and for those unfamiliar with the term sarcasm that was sarcasm.
Moderate Muslim simply means a Muslim who supports terror but does not directly engage in it, while radical muslim is a muslim who is in Al Queda/Hamas/Hezbollah etc etc etc.
Rascist means someone who is proud of ressistance to Islam of the past (Battle of Tours, first three sieges of Constantinople, Battle of Lepanto etc etc etc,) and wishes to continue ressisting Islam and maintaining Civilization today instead of going Dhimmi.
Anti-rascist simply means a fascist who wishes to eliminate freedom of speech and believes in Islamic Supremacy so works towards that goal (i.e Al Gaurdian)
Posted by: NicephorusPhocas at November 24, 2006 6:35 PM
Did someone mention trolls?
Right, Maryam. Muslims don't talk that way and there are no Muslim suicide bombers either. Suicide is forbidden in Islam, after all. The punishment is Hell.
Tell me, Maryam: What's Allah's punishment for lying through your teeth and being an annoying buffoon?
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at November 24, 2006 6:35 PM
You are right it is far from an isolated example.
Stories like this are now coming thick and fast daily in the media.
That they are prolific does not make them true.
The story is absurd. It makes no sense. Muslims are as puzzled about it as you.
at November 24, 2006 7:04 PM
I thought suicide was a crime in itself? How can the Lord love a person who commits a crime against humanity? Certainly wouldn't be a loving Lord anyway.
Posted by: Jeff at November 24, 2006 7:32 PM
Why aren't you puzzled about it?
There are enough inconsistencies, absurdities and anomalies to puzzle any thinking person.
I only want you to think.
You don't even need to change your opinion, just think about where you got it and how much you trust the source and why.
Don't sit so firmly intrenched in your views that you could never consider the possibility of another explanation.
Stop bolstering eachother up by congratulating eachother on your fine moral intellectual superiority, and start questioning your source of information.
What would it take to get YOU to be a suicide bomber? We are all humans, it would take about the same stuff. It's wholly unnatural, the number of people prepared to do this under ANY pretext could not be large enough to worry the USA. The WHOLE PURPOSE of this strange story seems to be to inflame emotions and justify World Powers doing whatever they like.
By the way its 5 hours later here so I can't chat long.
at November 24, 2006 7:37 PM
Karen and Caroline thanks. For me a higher level of spirituality is CONTROLLING yourself not "letting it all go" whether its lust or hate or freaking out at somebody. Christianity, Judaism, Buddism and others preach control. Islam preaches EXTREME denial to be followed by gorging in action X (such as sex) after you do your killing for allah.
Whether you believe in Jesus or Buddha or not you can see these founders were genuinely interested in sprituality. Is it just me or does it seem all the doctrines (especially about guaranteed paradise, and guaranteed sex orgies) seem to be contrived by some guy who is trying to motivate his followers to fight for him:
"Okay okay boys lets see whada' ya' want? Ya' want girls?
Ya' got em'! (after you fight and die).
Ya'll want paradise
ya' got it! (after you fight and die).
Ya' want to be happy forever and beloved of Allah?
ya got it! (after ya fight and die) soooo lets go then --everybody now charge that village over there!
Oh ya' you can have spoils of war and unlimited slave girls too so whose with me?
Oh WHAT is it now Ahmed?
"No no no Ahmed don't worry --allah is all cool with this ya' really he is! Dont let those damn christians and jews confuse ya' allah has proscribed war for ya'! Its not wrong if allah says its okay! Seriously I had this vision of Allah telling me so --yep just last night. (Saleem you got that down in writing? good good)
Any OTHER concerns? okay then lets get this show on the road already ! Everybody together as we charge now:
alllaaaaaaaaaah ackhbaaaaaaaaaar"
and they all rode straight into hell.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 24, 2006 7:44 PM
This is one of the absurdities and anomalies I was talking about
Posted by: maryam at November 24, 2006 7:52 PM
quote from maryam: " What would it take to get YOU to be a suicide bomber? We are all humans, it would take about the same stuff."
REALLLLLY??? If that were true, Me, Robert Spencer, George W Bush, and every male here would be 1) muslim and 2) sucide bombers
but we are not even though allah and islam offer that --NOW--TODAY--TO US. If it would "take the same stuff" then why arent WE doing it? That 'same stuff' is offered today by islam TO us.
We dont accept it because in our hearts we know its WRONG maryam. Its WRONG
to do it with a 9 year old
to kill for jihad
to get virgin orgies
to act like a FREAKING SERIAL KILLER and destroy inocent lives for a damn booty run!
Maybe YOU need to do some thinking hun?
Ever think about that?
sheesh.
at November 24, 2006 7:54 PM
the explanation of a suicide bomber is basically guys who believe that Islam is true and the lust in their hearts drives them to do it (plus the guaranteed salvation!)
QUOTE FROM AN ARTICLE from Toronto Star (link is below) where Michael Coren interviews another former jihadist and WHY OH WHY did he do it and guess what? It was SEX baby SEX SEX and more SEX. oh and guarantee of eternal salvation. Islam offers it to me but Im not stupid enough to become evil for such 'reward'! And neither are millions of nonmuslims around the world!! (thank God)
QUOTE:
In "Hot for martyrdom" in the National Post (thanks to Barbara), Michael Coren speaks to the courageous Tawfik Hamid"
"The first thing you have to understand is that it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with poverty or lack of education," he says. "I was from a middle-class family and my parents were not religious. Hardly anyone in the movement at university came from a background that was different from mine.
...
"I've heard this poverty nonsense time and time again from Western apologists for Islam, most of them not Muslim by the way. "
...
"Islam condemns extra-marital sex as well as masturbation, which is also taught in the Christian tradition. But Islam also tells of unlimited sexual ecstasy in paradise with beautiful virgins for the martyr who gives his life for the faith. Don't for a moment underestimate this blinding passion or its influence on those who accept fundamentalism."
A pause. "I know. I was one who accepted it."
This partial explanation is shocking more for its banality than its horror. Mass murder provoked partly by simple lust. But it cannot be denied that letters written by suicide bombers frequently dwell on waiting virgins and sexual gratification.
"The sexual aspect is, of course, just one part of this. But I can tell you what it is not about. Not about Israel, not about Iraq, not about Afghanistan. They are mere excuses. Algerian Muslim fundamentalists murdered 150,000 other Algerian Muslims, sometimes slitting the throats of children in front of their parents. Are you seriously telling me that this was because of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians or American foreign policy?"
...
He's exasperated now, visibly angry at what he sees as a willful Western foolishness. "Stop asking what you have done wrong. Stop it! They're slaughtering you like sheep and you still look within. You criticize your history, your institutions, your churches. Why can't you realize that it has nothing to do with what you have done but with what they want."
...
end of quotes
from:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013911.php
full toronto star article of this interview
from:
at November 24, 2006 8:01 PM
Hamid is another jihadist from the fellow interviewed by worldnetdaily. how many must we INTERVIEW to see that they all say the same F##$@# thing ? Must we carry our a survey because (just in case now) it might not be sex and salvation it might be they had a bad childhood? or (and I love this one) the secret cabal of western powers are PLANTING (yes planting) these poor shlups to say these things ! And and the towers FELL because the 17 terrorists were secretly JEWISH ZIONISTS yes yes and the moon is made of FREAKING green cheese, and magically elves dance up and down the grand muftis beard.
come on man.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 24, 2006 8:06 PM
quote:
"The WHOLE PURPOSE of this strange story seems to be to inflame emotions and justify World Powers doing whatever they like."
yes and the whole purpose of the trade towers was to
create panic and fear ..your point is what exactly?
to "justify world powers doing whatever they like.."
green cheese... moon ...little happy elves up and down the grand muftis beard I tell you!
LOOK everybody I just saw a Lepracahn! The obvious answer is never the right one you know! Why the obvious answer is always some convoluted consipiracy! Dark Cabals! Jews who eat christian children! secret world powers under freemason getaways! Did you know there were NO jews in the towers that fell ?! yes yes its TRUE (and I also believe little green aliens run Coca Cola and
well you get...
at November 24, 2006 8:17 PM
the land that this nut wants to blow himself
up for never has belonged to the so called Palestinian and abbas there pm attmits it
Abbas dismissed demands that Fatah recognize Israel - just one day before he told Rice that such recognition is a must. According to our religion, any land that we have occupied is our land. We must fight for our land.
there is a agressive delusion
that any land muslims have over run and occupied is now and allways muslim land and even if the dhimmi thier toss them out its still muslim land ie spain
at November 24, 2006 8:20 PM
amen islamakapigeaters amen to that.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 24, 2006 8:21 PM
For maryam, the Mohammedan troll:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23455_Irans_Suicide_Brigades&only
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 24, 2006 8:37 PM
Sarcasm and abuse weaken your stance of moral rectitude and intellectual prowess.
Islam teaches us to honour our parents, give food to our neighbours, visit the sick, respect the elderly -all muslim or not- to do thousands of named good deeds; even to remove a harmful object from the road. Having given us a lifestyle of prayer kindness decency and self restraint that we follow because of its obvious goodness, it doesn't make sense that it would demand killing or that we should think killing good.
The fact that you hold such untenable beliefs with such ferocity, about a huge and peaceful community indicates very strongly that you have been fed a large quantity of erroneous information over a long time.
Only your own efforts can free you.
You can think your way through this if you SEEK OUT PURE, FIRST HAND INFORMATION and STRIVE TO UNDERSTAND OTHER'S POINTS OF VIEW WITH AN OPEN MIND.
That can't be a bad thing can it?
And humbling though it may be, you don't have to know what's going on to be able to tell that whatever it is, it's not the story you've been given.
at November 24, 2006 9:23 PM
maryam
Your post is slightly ambiguous so I will not jump on your bones but I will refer to the less ambiguous areas of your position.
1. "Honor your parents"
Assist your Grandmother with bus fare on her way to blow herself up in an attempt to kill those you don't agree with?
2.Please name the non muslim recipients of muslim charity.
3." Remove harmful objects from the road."
Would you mind removing the IED "harmful objects" from the road (since your muslim adherents placed them there)?
4. If you muslims don't think killing is good, why do you do so much of it?
5. "Self restraint?"
Could you PLEASE make a case for muslim self restraint? Muslims are at war with their neighbors worldwide.
6. "Strive to understand others points of view."
Please, by all means, give us a case for muslims striving to understand other points of view.
Reading the plea of a muslim for reasonableness is troubling to my sanity. Is there a Psychiatrist on board...is it me who needs help?
at November 24, 2006 10:13 PM
Maryam wrote:
"Only your own efforts can free you."
My Reply:
The will to find the TRUTH will set you free. And I see the TRUTH that Islam is not from God but from satan.
Follow the simple way, if you want to know that teaching is come from God or satan, see the fruit. Quit from Islam right now, before you late Maryam, it is not religion but satan tool to destroy humanity.
Posted by: Mohammed_Pedophiles_Club at November 24, 2006 10:36 PM
Maryam --
I only wish I had taken that "Inverted Thinking" course in college, then I could better understand your -- well -- inverted thinking!
Posted by: champ at November 24, 2006 10:39 PM
Maryam, surely you have heard of the "martyrdom brigades" in Iran? They have received considerable coverage in the Islamic Republic's own newspapers, so they must exist. They even have an all female unit that is enroute to Baghdad as we speak! I have personally read excerpts from islamic sermons in which "martyrdom" is touted as the ultimate tribute to allah. Such sermons emanate from the Palestinian territories daily, as well as from mosques in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan.
Sorry, but there are simply too many reliable, reputable sources to validate the fact that islamic martyrdom, or suicide to murder innocent people for allah, is not only permissible in islam, but is considered a holy act! The depraved Palestinians even produce cartoons aimed at little children, encouraging them to become shahids. Please don't insult our intelligence.
Maybe you are parsing words or merely implementing the time-honored tradition of taquiyya, who knows. Perhaps you don't consider homicide bombings to be suicides since their primary purpose is to kill infidels. I believe islam does forbid suicide but islam does not forbid martyrdom, which is sacrificing oneself in battle for allah. So if a muslim wants to turn himself into a human bomb and "fight" for islam and allah, it's fine if he dies. Ok, if you don't want to call that "suicide", we'll just call it "the necessary sacrifice to commit cold-blooded, mass murder." Does that make you feel better? A shahid is a hero to be celebrated; he goes directly to paradise and the 72 virgins! His family has a party and sometimes gets huge sums of cash to make temporal life more bearable until they join him in paradise. An all around bonanza for all concerned. Is this your idea of good, decent, moral, and holy?
Posted by: Susanp at November 24, 2006 11:04 PM
Next post from 'maryam' will accuse us of 'turning her into a radical' because we reject her absurdities...
Maryam, are you gonna grow up to blow up or are you gonna bake yourself your very own little Islam under your burkha?
Hahahahahah!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 24, 2006 11:26 PM
Maryam,
Explain away this story:
http://www.kidnappedchristiangirls.org/confessionsofa.html
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 25, 2006 1:00 AM
Posted by: champ
Shiva -- in other words -- you're a lowsy lover.
That is neither for you,myself or any-one else to judge except the persons who I had sex with.
Each woman suffers a different amount of pain when their hymen is broken. It is possible to feel no pain at all. That said, it is most common to feel some discomfort when the hymen is being torn from the walls, or ripped. There are also women who feel a large amount of pain. The amount of pain a woman feels is relative to how thick her membrane is, how attached to the walls it is, and how large the penis is in relation to her natural opening.
A tampon isn't usually thick enough to break the hymen. In relation, if the man's penis isn't wide enough, or isn't fully erect during a woman's first time, it isn't likely to break the hymen. Instead it may hit the hymen and stretch it slightly, causing more discomfort to the woman unfortunately. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, and all of this depends on how the hymen is formed, as not all hymens are "built" the same.
To reduce pain during a "first time" experience, spending time sexually arousing the female, providing plenty of natural lubrication, will help a lot.
Not all women actually bleed when it is torn and some women bleed quite a bit when the hymen is torn. Again this is relative to the thickness of the membrane, how it's attached.
Some sexually active women can go their entire lives with their hymen intact, at least until they go through childbirth.
Why I am including this imformation is to show what low esteem muslims have for women..
Mohammed promised his followers seven heavens in which:
They are to cohabit with demure virgins...as beauteous as corals and rubies...full-breasted maidens for playmates...in the gardens of delight.... They're to lie face to face on jewelled couches, and be serviced by immortal youths...young boys, their personal property, as comely as virgin pearls.... We created the houris [dancing girls] and made them virgins, carnal playmates for those on the right hand.... We are going to wed them to dark-eyed houris. [The Koran 55:56; 55:58; 78:33; 56:12; 52:16-17, 24; 56:35-38; 52:20]
Each Muslim man, in exchange for a lifetime of mindless obedience, was to be rewarded after death with an unspecified number of pretty boys to bugger, plus 72 heavenly houris, each more phallus-raising than the others and each endowed with the capacity to grow a new hymen after each bout of sexual recreation. The male chauvinist Muslim could thus satisfy his virginity fetish by deflowering them over and over again, for eternity.
"and each endowed with the capacity to grow a new hymen after each bout of sexual recreation."
Thus committing the virgin to the pain of deflowering and suffering the pain of having her hymen broken and torn over and over again, for eternity.
Posted by: shiva
at November 25, 2006 1:48 AM
TMI, Dr. Shiva. Maybe you should start your own website and call it Sex Talk With Shiva!
Posted by: champ at November 25, 2006 2:19 AM
Posted by: champ
TMI, Dr. Shiva. Maybe you should start your own website and call it Sex Talk With Shiva!
Hey Champ of mental shortsightness
You have completely missed the point of what I am trying to convey
And that is the perverted mind set of muslim men on how the have no respect for women both here on earth and in he after-life.
I personally believe that no woman desires to be perpetually deflowered.I am surprised that no-body has picked up on this unsavoury aspect of an endless flow of virgins and the rewards in paradise? The Islamic paradise is described in great sensual detail in the Koran and the Traditions detailing the pleasures for men,and the discomfort and pain for women,after death.So women within islam the suffering follows them into the after life regardless of they go to hell or paradise
Maybe you missed these
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/02/x-rated.html
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/06/sex-and-islam.html
at November 25, 2006 3:28 AM
The Mind of an 11 year old suicide bomber - The Hamas movement educates the children in its schools, beginning in kindergarten, to believe that a martyr is given virgins in Paradise. Jack Kelley of USA Today visited Hamas schools in Gaza City, where he saw an 11-year-old boy speak to his class: “I will make my body a bomb that will blast the flesh of Zionists, the sons of pigs and monkeys… I will tear their bodies into little pieces and will cause them more pain than they will ever know.” His classmates shouted in response, “Allah Akhbar, “ and his teacher shouted, “May the virgins give you pleasure.” A 16-year-old Hamas youth leader in a Gaza refugee camp told Kelley, “Most boys can’t stop thinking about the virgins.”
USA Today, June 26, 2001.
Posted by: shiva at November 25, 2006 3:29 AM
Champ
Maybe you admire the ingenuity of the faithful!
Another great story from the annals of religious thinking (a oxymoron perhaps!), this goes back to the Iran-Iraq War before suicide bombing become the must have religious fashion accessory for Muslim youths.
Seasoned Iranian troops were refusing to cross mine fields to attack Iraqi troops, so the Mullahs (Allah bless them)came up with this solution.
Go around to the schools an recruit young male teenages into the “Mine Field Clearing Squads”
Now what tools where they given? Well a copy of the Quran of course (in a sturdy box, lest it be damaged by explosions). These young boys would then charge through the mine fields yelling “Allah Akbah” and thus the mines were cleared.
Now the parents of these young boys started complaining to their local Mullahs when all the body parts got shipped home.
Well now the Mullahs had a real problem. A compassionate solution perhaps!
Now when has compassion ever come into religous practice (remember witch burning by devout christians).
Now the ingenious Mullahs came up with plan B.
The young boys were instructed to wrap rolls of old carpet around themselves before they ran through the mine fields - this stopped them being blown into pieces!
Their parents where now pleased to get their sons bodies back in one piece and happily announced their passing into Paradise in the “Marriage” section of the local papers - because their sons have “married” the virgins of Paradise (A practice still use for present suicide bombers)
Posted by: shiva at November 25, 2006 3:37 AM
Champ
Maybe you admire the ingenuity of the faithful!and attack me rather than face the issue of the sick practice of suicide bombing and perversive incentives the Mullahs dangle to the lecherous mongrels of islam
Another great story from the annals of religious thinking (a oxymoron perhaps!), this goes back to the Iran-Iraq War before suicide bombing become the must have religious fashion accessory for Muslim youths.
Seasoned Iranian troops were refusing to cross mine fields to attack Iraqi troops, so the Mullahs (Allah bless them)came up with this solution.
Go around to the schools an recruit young male teenages into the “Mine Field Clearing Squads”
Now what tools where they given? Well a copy of the Quran of course (in a sturdy box, lest it be damaged by explosions). These young boys would then charge through the mine fields yelling “Allah Akbah” and thus the mines were cleared.
Now the parents of these young boys started complaining to their local Mullahs when all the body parts got shipped home.
Well now the Mullahs had a real problem. A compassionate solution perhaps!
Now when has compassion ever come into religous practice (remember witch burning by devout christians).
Now the ingenious Mullahs came up with plan B.
The young boys were instructed to wrap rolls of old carpet around themselves before they ran through the mine fields - this stopped them being blown into pieces!
Their parents where now pleased to get their sons bodies back in one piece and happily announced their passing into Paradise in the “Marriage” section of the local papers - because their sons have “married” the virgins of Paradise (A practice still use for present suicide bombers)
Posted by: shiva at November 25, 2006 3:42 AM
Posted by: americaningermany
Shiva, I know you were just trying to explain your point, but really...that's a bit more information than some of us can handle about the deflowering process.
Sorry,
I am just a bit uptight about this subject,as I witness daily how here in Indonesia,young men drowling over 12 yr old girls.I have even witnessed one marriage where the girl was 8 and the guy(monster)was 23.
In most muslims eyes a virgin is a young girl no more than the age of Ashia..
Posted by: shiva
at November 25, 2006 6:17 AM
If islam didn't think killing innocents was good, they wouldn't keep doing it. So far, all the suicide/murderers have been islamic. There's a connection.
Posted by: freewoman at November 25, 2006 10:13 AM
"Sarcasm and abuse"?
Give me a break --muslims kill thousands of people daily (www.mychrisitianblood.org) smash airplanes into towers, whine about implementing shiara law everywhere they come too, riot in cities, force 9 yera olds to marry dirty old men, slam on muslim women who are raped as if its their fault (ie countless cases in Saudi arabia right now with a major gang rape one where the judge gives lashes to the victim of the rape, rape nonmuslim women in northern europe (over 70% rapes according to swedish govt there are by muslim 'youths') and you're complaining about sarcasm and abuse. You blind guide of the blind why dont YOU complain about all the innocent kafir who are being killed and murdered daily in the name of your godless littel sidestreet philosophy?
QUOTE:
SEEK OUT PURE, FIRST HAND INFORMATION and STRIVE TO UNDERSTAND OTHER'S POINTS OF VIEW WITH AN OPEN MIND.
interviewing Ahemid and other jihadists FIRST HAND --IS FIRST HAND INFO --what exactly do you think "first hand" means in English?
As for other's "point of view" --excuse me your "point of view" is being drowned out by the SOUND of jihadists killing innocent westerner everywhere, drowned out by the rabid screams of london mulsims holding up "islam will dominate your country" and "screw democracy we want islam to rule in your lands" signs, drowned out by the insane screams for blood when the pope makes an APT observation, drowned out by your wickedness and you obvious godlessness!
YOU HYPOCRITE GOD the REAL God --THE GOD OF ISRAEL SHALL JUDGE YOU and when where you be when HE does for you have hated the people of his heart and touched the apple of his eye (Israel).
You will be where your kind is, the nazis (for they preached the same kind of hatred you preach), and the schemers (for allah is a schemer) you will be in the outer darkness where there is gnashing of teeth.
Pullllllease dont speak about "others" point of view ..
WE'VE SEEN ALL TO WELL YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND THE ACTIONS IT LEADS TO AGAINST THE INNOCENT.
BEHOLD THE BLOOD OF THE INNOCENT KAFIR IS ON YOU AND YOUR FILTHY FAITH.
THE TRUE GOD -THE GOD OF ISRAEL SHALL JUDGE YOU AND YOUR WHOREDOMS (for it is whoredoms to say one has sex in heaven with virgins and whoredoms and warmonder to kill innocents to gain paradise and godlessness to call a 'prophet' one who killed WITHOUT provacation so many over so many years after issuing islamic "invitation" (threats really).
YOU HYPOCRITE THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS GREATER.
deal with and hide your self in shame in your burkas for Iran and your worlds shall be swept away as you continue your godlessness. And if IRAN bombs even on square foot of Israel or our beloved america or europe we kafir shall wipe you out so quickly sooo effieciently that you will NEVER crawl out of your desert holes again.
at November 25, 2006 12:36 PM
QUOTE:
"Islam teaches us to honour our parents, give food to our neighbours, visit the sick, respect the elderly -all muslim or not- to do thousands of named good deeds; even to remove a harmful object from the road. Having given us a lifestyle of prayer kindness decency and self restraint that we follow because of its obvious goodness, it doesn't make sense that it would demand killing or that we should think killing good. "
YES ISLAM TEACHES THAT FOR YOU TOWARDS *OTHER* MUSLIMS but for kafir it teaches you to HATE them and make them pay jizya tax.
For you to deny such OBVIOUS teaching of the hadith/quran reveals only
YOU mental weakness and your dishonesty hidden in your heart behind your Taqiyya talk towards us.
Basically YOU are guilty of what you unjustly charge us with. YOU have been fed with lies over time about islam (or you knowningly practice taqiyya towards us willingly) --WE have our eyes wide open!
And maryam its spreading for as JESUS said "the Truth shall make you free"
Christianity and Judaism (and Sikhism and a few others) teach ALL those things you talk about: "prayer, giving alms to the poor, honoring parents" EXCEPT without the obvious hypocrisy of
Islamic Shiria law and practice.
Ignore the troll everybody --she doesnt read her quran/hadith and is blind to all the UNIVERSAL commands for all muslims it has to HATE their neighbours and love only their muslim neighbours.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 12:44 PM
Shiva -
You didn't need to explain your OWN sexual accomplishments because no one cares to hear how you are in bed. This is Jihad Watch, not a forum for sharing the details of your own experiences with 'virgins'.
Feel free to expose the sexual practices of our enemy, but not your own. PLEASE not your own. Gross.
Posted by: champ at November 25, 2006 12:57 PM
Shiva -- have you seen the movie, Borat? You remind me of him. You both have untamed tongues, in a stupid kind-a way.
Posted by: champ at November 25, 2006 12:59 PM
you must fight nonmuslims and for people of the book to be in subjugation and to pay the jizya tax.
Listen Maryam my people were under muslim rule for 400 years so please dont give me this camel dung nonsense about Islam being peaceful. Its peaceful for you my friend not for us. When Islam comes into our lands it takes over and treats us as third class citizens. For 400 years priests were killed, anybody who was found carrying more than a bible (or even one bible near a mosque) had their hands cut off (in accordance with shiara law). If a priest was trying to repair a church (forbidden under shiara law) he was punished and depending on the judge (because in shira law the judges are given great leeway to decide) it could have been anything from imprisonment to hanging him until dead on the gates of his own church. My people were killed and driven and tortured by muslims in the name of Islamic Shiria law. And please please do not tell me of nonmuslims doing the same because its pure nonesense. We all know the Crusades were a defense against unlawful islamic encroachment.
We are tired of being killed by our muslim 'friends' We will NOT tolerate it anymore. NOR will we tolerate another 6 milliion plus holocaust on our Jewish neighbours and friends.
Never again.
-------------
universal commands to muslims from the quran/hadiths:
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.’”
Qur’an:2:193 “Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers.”
Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them BY YOUR HANDS, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.” (thus this is not 'inner jihad')
Muslim:C9B1N31 “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”
and on and on...
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 1:05 PM
--what exactly do you think "first hand" means in English?
It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer.
at November 25, 2006 1:15 PM
-----------------
QUOTE BY SHIVA
So this skumbag after years in this world of faith, restraint and patience, strives to enjoy Allah's pleasures and inflict pain upon women forever
Posted by: shiva
------------------
QUOTE BY CHAMP
Islam -- religion of peace? I guess Muslims believe that by killing every last human being on earth that we will finally have "peace on earth" because there won't be anyone left to fight with. Now I get it!
Posted by: champ
-----------------
CHAMP AND SHIVA you guys are on the same side! We both dispese the lies of Islam.
I know that this jihad watch represents different opinions about life and religion (some of us are hindus others Buddihsts others Christians and Jews and others even Agnostics or just 'secular' with different views on everything from politics to religion --however we all agree that we all
love freedom and that Islam (which is a political movement --a nation really) wants to invade all our nations and force us under their law --
and we do not want that.
Why not focus on that? Hey maybe shiva has five girlfriends and maybe I dont believe in sex before marriage and so on . But who cares? In A FREE NATION like the USA or other NONISLAMIC pro-deomocracy countries it DOESNT MATTER you are free (as long as you dont force or hurt others)!! However ISLAM wants us to deny our freedoms, wants to force us to adopt ONLY their view (or pay crippling taxes if you are Christian or Jewish!) If you are atheist or hindu or buddisht your dead of course...
In the democratic west you can be atheist or Jew, playboy or monk , it doesnt matter thats the beauty of democracy . So you are both on the same side here you are ALLIES !!
Of course if the Nazis ran in a free western country nobody would vote for them because we know that they would take away all our freedoms unlike voting for other parties. Islam is like Nazism in this way and we are trying (and succeeding) in getting the word out. Islamics want their own party and their own law that would DENY any further fee democratic elections.
As the Omar Ahmad, co- founder of CAIR said:
“CAIR is not in the United States to promote the civil rights of Muslims. CAIR is here to make radical Islam the dominant religion in the United States and convert our country into an Islamic theocracy along the lines of Iran.”
Remember that everybody. CHAMP AND SHIVA I think you guys are on the same side!
Behold the new nazis are among us and they say the worship God but they worship a different kind of swastika...
for those interested read:
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0504/48.html
at November 25, 2006 1:30 PM
"If islam didn't think killing innocents was good, they wouldn't keep doing it."
Posted by: freewoman
How does Islam define "innocent"?
From the interview:
"BOMBER: America is destroying and exploiting the Arabic and the Islamic world as part of a Zionist and Crusader plan. The American Jews, we say, are the godfathers of this Zionist entity in America.
"Therefore this Daniel, I am sure, participated in the army activity. If not, he collected money for this Zionist entity. If not, he would decide one day to come to live here as a settler. Therefore there is no way that he can be defined as innocent."
Posted by: Josephine at November 25, 2006 1:30 PM
QUOTE
"It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer."
Okay now I know you havent been on here for too long. Everybody on here knows that I have an exmuslim friend of Turkish descent named Bulent who I have MORE than interviewed but spoken to daily (we had lunch last day with our ladies) so for you to ignorantly state such nonesense only validates what I have been saying about people such as you who come on here out of the blue and want to "lay down the law".
As for the the Michael Corn INTEVIEW of the other terrorist MARYAM THAT WAS HERE IN TORONTO --AND I HAVE MET MICHAEL ON TWO OCCASIONS. I ALREADY EMAILED HIM A FEW DAYS AGO AND HE HAS RESPONDED. I TRUST HIM LIKE I TRUST MY OWN BROTHER. MY OWN FATHER HAS MET HIM AND WHEN I SAT DOWN WITH HIM HE TOLD ME ABOUT THE INTERVIEW HE HAD WITH THE JIHADIST sooooo please dont talk about things you have no clue about!
Also I was in a unique position since I live in the same city and had access to this journalist.
The others have to rely on the honesty of brave men like Mr Coren AND the journalist who was in Israel. To ask anything more of those people (because again I have you at a disadvantage since I know that journalist!) --to ask anything more of people on here who do not have direct access to such people but have access to honest reporting is a red herring in philosophical argumentation.
It goes something like this
1)you dont know if it was a real interview (unless you know the participant)
2)maybe the journalist is lying
3) maybe the journalist is part of a jewish or other conspiracy
therefore,
4)dont believe the interview
This flawed type of argumentation is used mostly by marxist and conspiracy theorists (hence my jesting at your nonesense last day) it is not
a serius or cogent approach to the issue at hand.
Next you will be telling me: how do you KNOW the towers went down you live in Canada you didnt go there in person.
Pure infantile non sequitor nonesense maryam.
And my exmuslim friend who I trust as a brother has MET such jihadists who said the EXACT same thing as Ahmed and as Tawfik in the Coren interview (Coren who I have ALSO MET! He has met my father as well. he is a very religious and honorable man):
at November 25, 2006 1:40 PM
quote: "Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer."
pure garbage especially since you picked the WRONG person to say that too! I am probably one of the few on here who KNOWS an 'alleged' interviewer and an 'alleged' exmuslim who knew jihadist wannabes back in Turkey .
There was nothing 'alleged' of these people.
So you picked the wrong person.
Nice try.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 1:42 PM
QUOTE "I am probably one of the few on here who KNOWS an 'alleged' interviewer and an 'alleged' exmuslim who knew jihadist wannabes back in Turkey ."
Yes! That's good! That's what I am talking about. Analysing first hand information. Meet the people involved. Speak to someone who holds a view different to yours and has lived in the conflict. That is a much higher quality of data than soaking up everything fed to you on the news.
I am not here debating the rights and wrongs of the matter; I am trying to stimulate impartial research!
at November 25, 2006 2:00 PM
Maryam I do not usually comment on here but I read the articles regularly. I had to comment. I agree with Allies about your misconception of what it requires to transmit the truth. No, one does not have to be there in person to interview such a fellow in order to know that these suicide for Allah believers not only exist but continue to grow.
I came on here though because I *have* interviewed such a person. I am Jewish on my mother's side and was in Israel in 2003 only two years after the 9-11 attack. I was at a nightclub on a hot summer evening where there were a mixture of many types of people: jewish and nonjewish young people at this laid back nightclub playing mostly Euro-pop and serving very good food.
A very loud and rowdy group of arabic looking fellows shouted to me happily "hey american join us!" I was wearing my "I love NY" shirt.
There were four of them. One was Saudi and the others from the local area. The Saudi was very silent. As we spoke it became very apparent to myself that the Saudi hated the US and was happy about 9-11. The others chided him for not talking to some of the girls in the place who were obviously young and single. After I bought them all of them some food and drinks and basically befriended them by showing how us "rich" Americans aren't all that bad they told me why they had brought him there. It was a going away deal.
The Saudi wanted to blow himself up near a Jewish
deli a few blocks from where we were in a few days.
Maryam I *did* interview him and I spoke to him, because once he became relaxed with me he informed me with menacing glee that he did not need the girls in the club for he had pure ivory faced virgins waiting for him.
I attempted to contain my shock at what he said, because it was the first time I ever heard of this doctrine.
He told me many things and finally that he came from a good and nearly rich family in a city called Jiddah. He said that the beauty of Jiddah would pale in front of the beauty of Allah's paradise and fountains. He wanted to make sure he would get there after the tormenting period and wanted his virgins.
I spoke to him in person Maryam and I will never forget it.
However I doubt that is enough for a person such as you. You remind me of the old skeptics who would doubt their own shadows unless they saw them
daily.
When I was leaving for home, there had been several suicide bombers. I do not for the life of me know if that poor fellow was one of them.
However I will never forget the look of intensity on his face when he said he would be recieved in Allah's paradise and by his virgins.
It was a look of intense ecstasy.
In truth I felt sorry for him.
Posted by: Yankee_boy at November 25, 2006 2:11 PM
"I am not here debating the rights and wrongs of the matter; I am trying to stimulate impartial research!" by Maryam
Maryam I do not believe you are trying to stimulate anything other than doubt in the minds of the good folks here who know all too well that what they read is the truth. Not everybody needs to have the experience I did. Nor do I wish it upon them. Because the sadness I felt for this misguided person is the sadness I feel for all muslims such as you. I have to agree with the others. You are being dishonest because I see in your earlier posts that you are on here with an agenda other than stimulating impartiality. You are on here with a muslim agenda. This shows me by what you said in those posts you have your own mind made up before you came on here.
Maryam I spoke to this type of person. What about you Maryam, have you spoken to a suicide bomber?
If not I suggest to you that does not mean they do not exist. I have never seen air but I know it exists so with the people on here because they feel the effect of air. These people on here have all felt the effect of Islamic terrorism. They do not have to interview such people as I did in my chance encounter. Nor do I recommend it.
Again I feel sorry for your people. You have been duped by a philosophy of danger and dare I say hatred.
Posted by: Yankee_boy at November 25, 2006 2:21 PM
WOW thanks yank! Maryam I agree you are not here to stimulate impartial talk puleeeeeeease!! You had a whole long thing about Islam earlier. Maryam I hope you are not going to be wife #4 of some muslim guy huh! Muhammad lets you have 4 wives!!!
By the way everybody you can SEE Michael Coren on his own TV show every night if you catch CTS in Toronto. He constantly interviews muslims and they all say the garsh danrnest things. If you cant get it go to the cts website and ask about getting his programs. Not all of them are about islam, most are not because there are alot of Canada issues he deals with but you can ask about the muslim ones. Here is Coren's webstie
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 2:34 PM
ALLIES SHALL WIN --
You're right, and thanks for reminding me of what's important here. I got annoyed with some of his sexual disclosures, but I won't let it color my overall opinion of what he stands for. I like you, you're a cool dude.
Posted by: champ at November 25, 2006 2:43 PM
Thank you for this excellent and powerful testimony, politely and frankly expressed.
I feel inclined to believe you, but his absurd beliefs are not in Islam, and your account of them conflicts directly with my own experience of Islam's beauty and truth.
Was there alcohol at this nightclub?
Were these muslims eying up girls?
If this is the case it seems to me that more education on correct Islamic beliefs would be the strongest weapon to counter it.
"have you spoken to a suicide bomber?
If not I suggest to you that does not mean they do not exist."
No but it does mean I have the right and even the duty to suspend any judgement on the matter, not accepting others' interpretations until I have gathered sufficient evidence and can explain the contra-indications.
And that is a responsibility we all have.
at November 25, 2006 2:56 PM
We are all in this together Champ! The French are very different than the English and really alot of them historically dont like each other but in WWII they had to fight side by side. This is bigger than all of us. Dont get me wrong I have different views about sex before marriage, abortion etc than shiva or say Yankee up there who knows? But maaaaaan these muslims take over with shira laws and its GAME OVER everybody loses!
Shiva brother you and champ and I should go out one day for a meal and youll see we all are on here for the same thing --its hard sometimes on here because words dont convey emotion like if we were in a room together and of course tempers flare. If you guys are ever in toronto --dinner at my favorite restaurant is on me!
If either of you are ever in Toronto (especially in the summer) email me at
gkufcfight@lycos.com
We infidels after all are a friendly lot. cheers!
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 3:01 PM
QUOTE
No but it does mean I have the right and even the duty to suspend any judgement on the matter, not accepting others' interpretations until I have gathered sufficient evidence and can explain the contra-indications.
And that is a responsibility we all have.
RIGHT AND DUTY TO SUSPEND ANY JUDGEMENT?
Give me a break while I stop laughing Maryam. I notice you do not apply those rules to finding out the truth about Islam just be reading ALL of the hadiths and Quran and not evading or pretending all the killing lines and pedophile tales exist. Must I get out my looong book of verses out again. lol
As for my exmulsim friend Bulent when I spoke to him about Islam and alchol and girls he said: "muslims are like anyone else. They claim that they dont do these things but the nightclubs are full in Istanbul."
I dont yankee except on here but I know from Bulent that there was a lot of 'playing' around between the sexes among the young even in the most devout congregations. "kids will be kids" he likes to say.
This is not to say I agree with him that is how kids should act but that they DO act like that everywhere whether muslim or not is I think a matter self evident.
Americaningermany, I dont know any saudis but I do read many saudi blogs! And this Saudi girl on there talks about Saudi youth etc etc.
She is from the most muslim nation in the world and still she seems to act like a typical American teenager (except its down "under the radar" )
http://www.classic-diva.blogspot.com/
They are not differnt than us in dating and stuff but its all done "under the radar". I heard Muhammad Atta and his friends would visit night clubs in Florida and strip clubs actually before their 'mission' got called.
at November 25, 2006 3:13 PM
"You had a whole long thing about Islam earlier."
The purpose of this was to provide a contraindication to what you all think. A scientist continues believing in his theory until he comes across reliable evidence to the contrary. Then he has to explain the new evidence or abandon his theory.
My testimony, that of one with direct experience of Islam, should count as enough of a contradiction to your views to warrant investigation.
I am an English convert to Islam. I noticed a disparity between what I know and what I hear. I have come into the territory of those with opposite views to explain that disparity and stimulate impartial research.
You are all against Islam, and now have witness that a sane, educated, morally upright English woman (past childbearing) with no muslims to influence her converted to Islam on seeing its truth and goodness.
Go and speak to learned born muslims living in and recommended by their community. Explain the disparity to yourself and do impartial research. It's only what any fair, educated, scientific mind would do.
at November 25, 2006 3:32 PM
Americaningermany yes I was shocked that he spoke to me. But he was with his friends. The night was hot. The music pleasant and the patio very calm in the evening. His friends wanted me there not him. But then when he started talking he just told me. Just like that. I personally believe he was gloating. I think he wanted to show off to me as strange as it sounds. It was an odd way to tell me how spiritual he is. His friends had a sort of hate-love for America. They were dressed "western" but despised the US Govt but kept telling me "not the people, not the people." The Saudi however sat in stone like silence when they opined on that.
As for our visitor Maryam I concur she is in some sort of denial about Islam. But we are talking about her religion so in one sense I can understand why. Having said that though the surrounding evidence of what Islam creates in our world today is too intrusive to ingnore if one gives it proper rational consideration.
Also Allies you are correct. Many of the more devout sunni muslims seem to "indulge" when they are in sleeper cels. I believe this is so because once you have given your life for Allah your other sins are wiped from the scales of Allah on your spiritual account. So the short of it is that it makes no difference. However if you live as a devout muslim like Maryam then the scales are applied to you. Maryam your view about Islam is
innocent however it is tragically skewed. I encourage you to see out more experience in Islam and you will see that such teachings about Jihad are not unusual. Regardless, I felt deep sorrow for this poor devil.
I have said enough on the subject. I must concur with americaningermany and allies your rules of "gathering sufficient evidence" are a nice show but they fall short of basic common sense and seem more to do with protecting your idea of the purity of Islam. I understand that but I cannot defend it. Truth must go above even your personal beliefs on Islam. As for saying it is "a responsiblity that we all share". I understand that. But (and I do not mean any disrespect) I do not believe you understand it or what saying that really means.
To give you an example. If you were too meet one of these sad fellows like I did and he in great detail explained everything from the Quran and other teachings you would still not believe him. I do not mean you would not think he has a wrong view of Islam. No I believe you would not believe he was a "real" suicide bomber. Would his dead carcus need to land near your feet after he exploded killing some jewish deli customers a few feet away from you convince you? I think you would say "ah he was really poor." Or "He was deranged" But never "He believed". And that Maryam shows your intellectual dishonesty and handicap. Please understand I do not mean any disrespect. But your "rules" regarding "evidence" is a psychological defense mechanism rather than a
normal thirst for truth. This too is self evident.
I have to leave soon. Farewell all.
Posted by: Yankee_boy at November 25, 2006 3:34 PM
Maryam - if you're looking for a detailed inquiry into the legitimacy of suicide bombing in Islam, try this:
Suicide attacks not approved in Islam?
P.S. Shiva - I understand what you were getting at in your comments about virgins and I think it was a point well worth making. Also, for some reason I always thought you were a gal. Apparently not!
Posted by: Caroline at November 25, 2006 3:34 PM
Maryam said "I am an English convert to Islam. I noticed a disparity between what I know and what I hear. I have come into the territory of those with opposite views to explain that disparity and stimulate impartial research."
I did not know being an English convert gives you some sort of edge on rationality. It does not. The English can be as irrational as any other race. I say this because you repeat it twice and make a point of telling us you are morally upright. As you doubt any truth we tell you and that you see by upstanding people in the media as Allie's friend Coren so we reserve the right to doubt you. Do you see how that works. On any account I have no doubt that the poor fellow I spoke to on that hot summer night was telling me the truth and was in fact quite devout.
Posted by: Yankee_boy at November 25, 2006 3:48 PM
awww come on yankee! dont leave us yet! This Canadian is begging you my yankee bro.
Maryam is English? Oh boy. Now I get it. Maryam ever been in Saudi Arabia? Middle East? And I dont mean as a guest of other Europeans either.
Yankkeboy Coren is not my personal friend. He is a very busy and very respected journalist in Canada my dad knows him and I have had the pleasure of talking to him in person twice (Im not counting emails). The email I use on here is NOT the one I use with Coren. I say this because if any helpful 'muslim' outthere tries to hack it so I cannot communicate with people--it wont work! This is only my jihadwatch email so do your worst. By the way huge amount of muslim hackers tried to hack into the Vatican website but it didnt work --its way too tight.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 3:54 PM
Knowing what I do it is difficult to believe a muslim could speak like that- they don't.
Yet you all swallow it whole without question.
Posted by: maryam at November 24, 2006 06:22 PM
..... Question this, you brainwashed, jihadi lunatic!: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061123/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictisrael_061123191918
at November 25, 2006 4:09 PM
"converted to Islam on seeing its truth and goodness. Go and speak to learned born muslims living in and recommended by their community. Explain the disparity to yourself and do impartial research. It's only what any fair, educated, scientific mind would do."
Posted above.
Yes, everyone gather 'round and uncritically accept the subjective accounts of biased followers. Utter rubbish.
Here, let me explain the disparity to myself: These "leaned born muslims" (?) are either liars or are themselves deceived or ignorant of Islam.
I've done my research. It started out impartial until I hit some unescapable conclusions.
It is YOU, Maryam, that needs to defend YOUR acceptance of the hateful, violent, misogynist religion of Islam as "truth and goodness".
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at November 25, 2006 4:14 PM
QUOTE RE:MARYAM from STILLFEDUP:
I only see a weak, hippy, in-need-of-a-humma loony
STILLFEDUP you sized her up perfectly. My thoughts exactly. Lets all sing kumbaya and pass the gronala.
lol.
PS I have spoken to devout muslims (not my exmuslim friend was a muslim since birth and attended two religious schools before "coming to the truth about Islam" (his words not mine). Anyway I've spoken to other people who are currently muslim and are educated and are devout including one shiite ismaili, two sunnis and a "regular" shiite as he likes to say they all get antsy if you confront them with the quran/hadiths even in writing. They are scared of the truth I think.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 4:34 PM
maryam, what in the hell attracted you to islam? A man? Total regementation from birth to death?
Hate for everyone not muslim?
Jews are monotheistic, why not become a Jew?
Christians are monotheistic (although you say we are polytheists) Why not Christianity?
Is your brain in working order?
at November 25, 2006 4:41 PM
Maryam,
What about suras 9.38 and 9.111, just to name two off the top of my head? Does the Qur'an promise paradise (the penthouse paradise even) to those who kill and are slain for Allah, or not?
*Cue Jeopardy music*
Now if you personally don't believe it, or have your own interpretation, that's fine. But don't lie about our little Ahmed, or the thousands of Mohammeds just like him.
Posted by: Beagle at November 25, 2006 4:48 PM
I thought Shiva made a very important point, and his level of detail was important for those out there who don't know or understand just what it's like to have sex when you are still a virgin.
It *IS* all about bringing eternal pain to women -- just another example of how much Muslim men fear and despise women.
And I actually laughed out loud when maryam suggested we educate ourselves before we form our opinions on Islam. I get the idea she must be REALLY BRAND NEW to the site, otherwise she would have seen how often Robert and many posters here back up their comments with links to VALID websites and articles.
Oh, yeah, but that's right... all those websites are tools by the evil Zionists and their minions to make it *SEEM* that Islam is evil and full of insane f'ing freaks who want to kill ALL non-Muslims, huh. Just like it's America behind all the insane kidnappings, tortures, and killings going on in Iraq right now -- yeah, we're doing all we can to make those Muslims look bad.
Boy, who knew America and those evil Jooooos were so SMART and POWERFUL ??
*hack spit*
Posted by: JenBee at November 25, 2006 5:06 PM
maryam
"The purpose of this was to provide a contraindication to what you all think. A scientist continues believing in his theory until he comes across reliable evidence to the contrary."
Good I too am a scientist and a historian so lets see the evidence....
The evidence is clear..
The facts are....
(I) Faithful muslims who accept the truth contained in all Islamic holy books and law are against:
(1) Womens Rights
(2) Seperation of Religion and State
(3) Freedom of Speech and Religion
(4) Minority Rights (unless muslims are the minority)
(II) Faithful muslims who accept the truth contained in all Islamic holy books and law are duty bound to exact violence and punishment on anyone who accepts:
(1) Womens Rights
(2) Seperation of Religion and State
(3) Freedom of Speech and Religion
(4) Minority Rights (unless muslims are the minority)
(III) Western civilization as it stands today accepts:
(1) Womens Rights
(2) Seperation of Religion and State
(3) Freedom of Speech and Religion
(4) Minority Rights
Thus a conclusion is:
Islam is against western civilization. Islam will use violence to attack western civilization.
Posted by: greatcometof1577 at November 25, 2006 5:06 PM
STILLFEDUP quote:
"If you ask any psychology expert they will tell you about the great discomfort some widow women go through (counting in also menopause) and they are desperately in need of something to belong to."
WOW you are good. She did mention she was past childbearing so I thought that was very odd to write that in there "Im english upright past childbearing.."
They need to belong to something. yeah . oooh boy. I always thought of most western women as being very careful about equal rights for women. Islam treats women like slaves and not only covers them in burkas but in Shiira law (according to all the three schools in Sunni and one in Shia ) treat women as 1/2 the value of a man in legal jurisprudence. 1/2 the value! And an "educated" woman is supposed to accept this? All the crap that women had to go through and now to just accept something like that! wow.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 5:08 PM
"Suicide is forbidden in Islam, the punishment is Hell, why would anyone think otherwise?"
Maryam,
Here's why: the many suicide videos produced by Palestinian suicide bombers and at least two of the 9/11 hijackers. They all state proudly what they are doing and why: suicide for Allah. We have the testimony of family members of those who were on Flight 93 who spoke to their loved ones before the plane went down. We have the tape produced by Osama and Zawahiri where they openly discussed the 9/11 attack and how it was perpetrated. Are all of them fabrications? Did all of those Palestinians make up their story? Saddam Hussein paid their families $25,000 after they carried out their attacks. Was he duped?
My question to you is: do Muslims consider a self-inflicted death (how can you NOT call it suicide when the perpetrator straps explosives on himself or rams a car filled with explosives into a crowd of people?) to be other than a suicide so long as it takes the life of at least one non-Muslim?
As for why we "swallow it whole": We know and trust the reporter that wrote the story. Not that we know him personally - do you know every reporter and do you automatically disbelieve everything that is written because you haven't spoken to people personally? You obviously believe those who tell you Mohammad ascended to heaven, even though you never interviewed him personally and neither did they. Are Muslims the only ones allowed to have faith in other people?
Posted by: PMK at November 25, 2006 5:36 PM
Ms. Namazie?
Posted by: PRCS at November 25, 2006 5:37 PM
Scarify" would seem to be a variation of "terrify," if I might clarify. Indeed, primary jihad events like 9/11 instill terror, while a lone suicide bombing like Grandma Fatima's effort, which resulted in just a few scratches and scrapes for the IDF soldiers, rather simply scares us.
And you thought these Neanderthals had little capacity for language.
Posted by: Haid Dasalami
Actually it doesn't instill terror in me but rather revulsion and contempt. And now, over 5 years after 9/11 I have to confess I feel nothing but cold hatred for all moslems. If that makes me a bad guy then I am a bad guy. But at least I am not lying like those taqqiyah swine.
FYI. I saw 9/11 first-hand up-close and personal. People jumping out of windows - sometimes in twos holding hands - to avoid being burned alive when all they'd been at the WTC to do was to work and pay taxes. Taxes from which moslems also get their unfair share of benefit!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 25, 2006 5:42 PM
WOW you are good. She did mention she was past childbearing so I thought that was very odd to write that in there "Im english upright past childbearing.."
Whew! No suicide bombers from maryam!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 25, 2006 5:44 PM
because islam was the "underdog"...
Posted by: StillFedUp
hahahahh oh my word STILLFEDUP you got me so laughing I almost fell off my chair again. hahaha. Wow there are some real GENIUSES out there. Underdog huh. Thats like me joining Hitler's Nazi party back in 1920 when it was small and weak and with like 5 members because gawrsh darn poor Adolg was an 'underdog'. People need to distingish between good and evil never mind underdog. Anyways Islam is hardly an underdog in huge areas of the middle east and far east. As for islam appearing good. Yes when you separate yourself from ALL the quran/hadith then you can call it whatever you want. But actions speak louder than words. "By their fruits you shall know them." And the fruits I see fly airplanes into towers...(pun intended)
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 6:06 PM
QUOTE by GERMANINAMERICA:
"FYI. I saw 9/11 first-hand up-close and personal. People jumping out of windows - sometimes in twos holding hands "
That one sentence your wrote brought it all back to me. Dear God I wasnt there I was seeing a video feed from here in toronto. And I bet Maryam, Naseem, CAIR and the rest of them will say, "they have hijacked our religion". yeah sure they did. Or your religion inspired those men to hijack two planes in keeping with proper spirit of outer "fight them with your hands' jihad.
Ishaq:324 “He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah ONLY. Allah must have NO RIVALS.’” (ie only Islam in the land)
Qur’an:9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them BY YOUR HANDS, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them.”
Watch the muslim who come here now say, 'oh it didnt really happen you must keep an open mind it was all the US govt men or Jews or space aliens or just a figment of your imagination' and THEN tell us we arent "impartial"
Truly there is evil in the world and thy name o serpant is Islam.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 25, 2006 6:14 PM
Dear Maryam:
You stated: "My testimony, that of one with direct experience of Islam, should count as enough of a contradiction to your views to warrant investigation."
Your testimony is not only worth very little according to Islamic teaching, but as an admitted follower of Islam, whose false "god" Allah says it alright to lie to the infidel, tells us to give your "testimony" little value.
Besides we have seen enough already of the TRUE Islam to know that anything good you would say about this vile religious and political tyrannical ideology would be a lie.
Many of us have also read the Quran, so why would we listen to you when we have the Quran as the true measurement of what Islam is along with the religious Islamic writings of "prominent distinguished" of the past and of our day. You're just a recent convert. You know very little compared to those "distinguished" Islamic scholars calling on jihad and death to all infidels!!! You're just a naive foolish "babe".
If I were a Muslim, a true follower of the Quran, I would tell you to get back to the kitchen and shut up! :)
I guess there is one good thing about Muslims is that their religion is so violent that when they aren't killing Jews, Christians, or infidels, they are killing each other!!!
Posted by: Levi at November 25, 2006 6:16 PM
It is a sad fact, that a 57 yr old grandmother named fatima strapped a bomb around her body in order to kill some jews.
Hamas has sunk to a new all time low. Using grannies to do their dirty work.
Posted by: callmeinfidel at November 25, 2006 6:21 PM
If someone here would press Maryam in a focused way, with lots of evidence making it impossible for her to wiggle out, she would likely avail herself of the "Muslim Two-Step" (which remarkably resembles the "Leftist Two-Step"):
STEP ONE:
1) Maryam: Islam is peaceful, the desire by some Muslims to suicidally/homicidally explode is not reflective of authentic Islam.
Rebuttal with a mountain of evidence.
STEP TWO:
2) Maryam: Oh, well, those Muslims are merely desperately trying to resist the evil West in its Colonialist, and then Post-Colonialist interference and aggression against the Muslim world, and in so doing the Muslim resistance is a) understandable, and [after she is sufficiently and efficiently pressed to the focal point] Islamically legitimate as defensive jihad, equivalent to Western "just war".
Notice how the second step in the Muslim Two-Step contradicts the first step; or at best is a cleverly sophistical (if not downright Orwellian) gloss on the first step.
The other leitmotif that peppers Maryam's posts is based upon the silly fallacy that, "I know some good Muslims, therefore there is no serious problem emanating out of the orbit of Islam."
at November 25, 2006 6:23 PM
Hamas should change it's name; based upon the first three letters of its name.
Posted by: PRCS at November 25, 2006 6:24 PM
I always bristle when I hear a Muslim person say on the radio or on TV that Islam was hijacked by a minority of extremists.
I feel that it is disrespectful and narcissistic to suggest that Muslims were victimized on 9/11. They (who are alive to speak to the media) were not on the airplanes that were literally, and not figuratively, hijacked. They were not in the buildings that the hijacked airplanes were flown into.
I'm surprised they don't also say, every time a non-Muslim is beheaded, that Islam has been beheaded by a minority of extremists.
(Actually, I wish someone would say that: I could use a good laugh.)
Posted by: Josephine at November 25, 2006 6:48 PM
There are none so blind as those that will not see and you rarely see anyone so determined not to see the point as Maryam. Perhaps she is on some sort of Muslim home-study taqiyya course and has been given the exercise of joining a kaffir thread and arguing that black is white and white is black, defending her positions to the last ditch.
Posted by: wallyUK at November 25, 2006 7:13 PM
A very interesting link here re Arab propaganda called 'turnspeak'
Be sure to bookmark it:
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/turnspeak.html
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 25, 2006 7:32 PM
Maryam, now that I know you're a convert to islam I can understand your attitude much better, but for God's sake, don't you READ THE NEWS?
Not a day goes by that a maniacal suicide car bomber doesn't plow into a crowd of innocent civilians, fellow muslims, and blow them and himself to kingdom come in Iraq. IS THAT NOT SUICIDE?! It is not only SUICIDE, it is also HOMICIDE. Christianity forbids murder; ISLAM DEMANDS IT.
I don't know when, where, or how you could find any peace, love, or spirituality in the death cult of islam . I hope you are aware that apostasy is forbidden and punishable by death so if you should change your mind about being a muslim, your beloved "brothers and sisters" will hunt you down and kill you for leaving the cult.
Good luck and God help you. It's sad enough that billions of unfortunate people are born into this hideous faith, but there is no excuse for a sane Westerner to covert to it. I guess that means you're crazy.
Posted by: Susanp at November 25, 2006 8:00 PM
or both...
Posted by: Levi at November 25, 2006 8:30 PM
or a deliberately obfuscating liar.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at November 25, 2006 8:43 PM
Posted by: Caroline
P.S. Shiva - I understand what you were getting at in your comments about virgins and I think it was a point well worth making. Also, for some reason I always thought you were a gal. Apparently not!
HA HA! you only find out now after all these years.
I brought up the point as no-body has taken up this issue before here and on the many other forums I have visited.
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN
If either of you are ever in Toronto (especially in the summer)
Thanx
Should you ever be in Idonesia,I dont mind showing you around
Posted by: Champ
Shiva -- have you seen the movie, Borat? You remind me of him. You both have untamed tongues, in a stupid kind-a way.
What ever !
Posted by: shiva
at November 25, 2006 9:10 PM
It means YOU interviewing somebody selected by YOU.
Not you reading an alleged interview with an alleged bomber allegedly written by an alleged interviewer.
Posted by: maryam at November 25, 2006 01:15 PM
.... have heard this kind of an absurd arguement, like "How can you say there is moon... have you been there? NO! So, how can you say that THAT is the moon?" you know... like the kids talking without any substance....
Posted by: Alert
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