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According to Erdogan, Benedict now endorses the "grave error." But it is still a grave error, regardless. "Pope Benedict Backs Turkey's European Union Bid, Erdogan Says," by Flavia Krause-Jackson and Mark Bentley for Bloomberg, with thanks to Andrew Bostom:
Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Pope Benedict XVI said he backs Turkey's bid to join the European Union, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said after meeting the pontiff upon his arrival in Ankara for his first visit to a Muslim country.The Pope told Erdogan that while the Vatican seeks to stay out of politics it ``desires Turkey's membership in the EU,'' Erdogan said at a news conference after the 15 minute meeting that initiated his four-day visit to Turkey. As Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger he had said in 2004 that allowing Islamic Turkey to join the EU would be a ``grave error.'' The Vatican has yet to confirm Benedict's comments today.
Posted by Robert at November 28, 2006 4:09 PM
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No! Say it ain't so! Waiting for the confirmation or denial...
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 28, 2006 4:12 PM
quote:
"As Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger he [sic?] had said in 2004 that allowing Islamic Turkey to join the EU would be a ``grave error.''"
-----
Cardinal Ratzinger for the next Pope!
at November 28, 2006 4:13 PM
Did someone hold a gun to his back?
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 28, 2006 4:24 PM
why don't you ask ME if I want turkey in the EU. turkey is NOT European, simple as that!
It's called the "European" Union. Nothing personal.
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 28, 2006 4:25 PM
l think the European people have more say as to wheter the turks get in the EU.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 28, 2006 4:28 PM
Ironic that Mozart's Requiem just came on thru my random playlist on itunes.
Sing a Requiem for Europa! The Golden Child must be sacrificed to ply the Hordes! The locusts.. I can HEAR them!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 28, 2006 4:29 PM
Gosh, don't spose that erdogan is lying, do ya? Naw, mahometans know that lying is forbidden.
Posted by: Infidel33 at November 28, 2006 4:30 PM
We're going under.
Posted by: EliasAlucard at November 28, 2006 4:31 PM
Maybe the Pope is just playing thier game telling them what they want to hear. He is a very smart man --he knows what the 'religion of peace' is about just like a law abiding citizen knows what 'an offer you can't refuse" means
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at November 28, 2006 4:34 PM
What Turkey's muslims deny and why they should not get in the EU
Wake- Up!...and Smell the Threat (Part 1 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ki75TYXFI
Wake-Up!...and Smell the Threat (Part 2 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su6hlrr824w
Wake-Up!...and Smell the Threat (Part 3 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUAy9DEzls4
Wake-Up!...and Smell the Threat (Part 4 of 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJfeNBeRN1k
QUOTE FROM NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE (link to whole article below):
"Turkey, Armenia and Denial
Published: May 16, 2006
Turkey's self-destructive obsession with denying the Armenian genocide seems to have no limits.... .. a leading Turkish novelist, Orhan Pamuk, was charged with "insulting Turkish identity" for referring to the genocide...Turkey's stance is hard to fathom. Each time the Turks lash out, new questions arise about Turkey's claim to a place in the European Union..."
quote from "THE NEW YORK TIMES" full article may 16 2006:
at November 28, 2006 4:40 PM
rmenian Genocide Survivor Sam Kadorian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfC0thL5lUc
Armenian Genocide (1915) Survivor: Hagop Assadourian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln3JYUYnsqE&mode=related&search=
Armenian Genocide (1915) Survivor: Richard Parseghian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ijIaMWwtk&mode=related&search=
Armenian Genocide (1915) Survivor --Alice Muggerditchian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHiaiqowsQg&mode=related&search=
Armenian Genocide Survivor Vartan Hartunian 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNYiNbRZBDk&mode=related&search=
mass kidnapping of Christian boys and girls in Turkey (to raise them as muslim and to marry the girls):
Armenian Genocide Survivor - Kevork Balian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdnHOSs0XNA
at November 28, 2006 4:46 PM
posted by USBEAST in other thread--a muslim hate site just added an essay on jihadwatch cursing us (though they will be the ones cursed)"
Hey guys and Robert,
Off topic alert: Check this out: http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/
It seems Robert has stepped someone's toes and they are responding in true Islamic fashion: with threats, quotations and rubbish.
Posted by: USBeast [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 28, 2006 04:56 PM
at November 28, 2006 5:05 PM
well, i hope that the pope has been severely misquoted.
if not, then this is a bleak and disappointing day, i hope that Merkel and Sarkozy don't cave in too.
at November 28, 2006 5:09 PM
We are constantly told by our leaders that they have met with foreign leaders. They know better as to what we could get as the best possible deal. Cardinal Ratzinger could more easily tell the truth than Pope Benedict.
But why is it when our leaders meet with foreign leaders they abandon us, but when their leaders meet with ours, they stick to their guns and their people's interests?
Even when they are caught red handed in over a century of genocide against Christians which is only moderated because very few Christians are left, and most of them old and dying out?
Why is it that a meeting between leaders is for their side an opportunity to stick it to us and for our side an opportunity for apology, betrayal, and surrender?
In the case of Bush, Baker and Prince Bandar, we can say its money. But with the Pope what is it?
The Left has taught us that our leaders should be the Secretary of Apology, Nation Building and Reparations. The Left teaches that to grow in office, our leaders must apologize. To show their sincerity they must give up our right to live in our lands.
This is what the Turks asked for as their right, to get our lands. This is the whole history of the Turks for the last 1000 years. Why can't EU leaders protect their lands and people? Because the Left won and has instilled in them that they are the Secretary of Apology.
The West is supposed to apologize for Greece, Rome, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and modern science. It is supposed to say that the Turks have superior wisdom. The Turks who have never said no to a chance for conquest and invasion of Europe or of killing Christians and Jews. The Turks have demanded that as their right for a thousand years. That is Turk culture.
Its not modern science, its demanding Europe's surrender. They demanded it today and got it. Our leaders should not be surprised that when they meet with Turks, the Turks demand our surrender and our lands. That's what they always demand as their right.
They should be prepared with their own demands and a polite refusal to the standard Turk demand, Europe. Why we have to respond to that politely is a good question for us to ask ourselves. If we demanded Turkey as our right, they wouldn't respond to it very well. Even a demand to free the Christians now, and give them equality would get a rebuff from them.
The whole history of Turk Europe relations is summed up in the scene in Lawrence of Arabia where Lawrence is whipped at the command of the Turkish officer. Its been that scene for a thousand years.
Plus ca change, plus c���est la meme chose.
Both about the Turks and our leaders.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at November 28, 2006 5:14 PM
Erdogan said it?
Must be true.
We can all go home now.
at November 28, 2006 5:24 PM
THE ALLIES SHALL WIN,
The truth is that with the Pope going to see the Patriarch of the Othodox Church, with the full intention of making both the western and the eastern churches grow closer to full unity. I do believe I will see the "two lungs" come back together as one church. The Eastern Rites branches of the Catholic Church are examples of what a full reunited Church of the "two lungs" of the western/eastern churches can become. This visit in support of his Orthodox brothers and sisters is a true slap in the face of the Turkish/Muslim nation that wants to be fully free of the Christian presence.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at November 28, 2006 5:30 PM
To those who doubt the veracity of Erdogan's summary of his conversation with the Pontiff, I suggest you read the article titled "Turkish hosts scold conciliatory Pope" on the website of the Daily Telegraph (www.telegraph.co.uk). Part of the article:
_______________________________________________
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish prime minister, who greeted him on the tarmac at Ankara airport, immediately asked him to support Turkey’s entry into the European Union. Two years ago, as Joseph Ratzinger before becoming Pope, he had said he was opposed to Turkey’s entry. However, Mr Erdogan was able to boast after their meeting that the Pope had performed an about turn and would now support Turkey.
Later, the Vatican was forced to put out a statement. It said: “The Holy See does not have the power or specific task, politically, to intervene on the precise point of Turkey’s entrance into the European Union. It does not strive for it.
“All the same, it sees positively and encourages the path of dialogue and of [Turkey] becoming closer and integrated into Europe.”
Posted by: Vienna at November 28, 2006 5:40 PM
I hope he comes to his senses when he gets back to the Vatican.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 28, 2006 5:42 PM
The Pope is soft soaping Erdogan and his Turkish Ummah. Pope knows that Turkey in the EU would flood EU with errant Muslims
Pope is laying on some taqiyya
Posted by: dennisw at November 28, 2006 5:45 PM
"Pope sells out Europe, says Erdogan"
What is the basis for this headline? Where did Erdogan criticize what the pope said as "selling out" Europe?
Posted by: PMK at November 28, 2006 6:18 PM
Seems Il Papa is being is being excruciatingly 'correct' and weighing every word.
He is not on his 'home turf' and guest etiquette applies in all its antiquated splendor. Erdogan will hear what he wants to hear but don't trust his version.
Posted by: poetcomic1
at November 28, 2006 6:28 PM
No!
I feel bitter inside. A part of me just died. This is pathetic. The more I learn about Islam, the sicker I become. The Pope, a highly learned man of Islam, should really see the connection between Islam and violence. "Peace"? Bullshit!
I feel like I need a shower, even though I just had a bath. Ugh.
Posted by: TheVoiceofTruth at November 28, 2006 6:48 PM
The Pope is soft soaping Erdogan and his Turkish Ummah. Pope knows that Turkey in the EU would flood EU with errant Muslims
Pope is laying on some taqiyya
Posted by: dennisw
Don't slip on the soap, Erdy! I agree the Pope is doing a bit of Taquiya. The scene is almost like a mugging. As soon as the Pope gets off the plane this turkbag runs up to him to demand his endorsement for EU membership.
I wish the Pope had spoken in more resolute tones than this very circumnavigational No/Maybe, but he did NOT say what Erdy-boy said he did. I cannot read that into the official Vatican Statement.
PS. I met a Serbian lady today. Of she had some choice words for BJ clinton. And she called Hitlery the Devil. Now she says, American troops are getting anti-terrorist training from Serbian forces whom they bombed not so long ago.
I hope the Serbs will also train them to ignore the PC Rules of Engagement.
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 28, 2006 6:49 PM
@germaninamerica
I visited Serbia for a couple weeks a couple years after the war. They hated Clinton over there, and he made then quite anti-american for that matter. The train guards threw our passports on the ground when they saw they were american. The Serbs may have had the right idea as history will show.
Posted by: bondservant at November 28, 2006 7:28 PM
The Turkish press' coverage of the Pope and his visit in the days preceding it has been worse than pathetic. Filled with distortions and speculations presented as facts. In fact, beyond pathetic - grotesque.
That said, all I can say to this story is consider the sources:
1. Reuters
2. Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan
I'll wait to hear it from more credible sources
Posted by: templar at November 28, 2006 7:30 PM
Yes, Jesus was politcally correct too by placating the Pharisees and Sadducees- oh wait- no He wasn't- Sad to see the pope selling out to be honest. Valuing man's opinion over God's- sorry, but not real keenm on what He's doing. http://sacredscoop.com
Posted by: CottShop at November 28, 2006 8:13 PM
and the level the Pope has to operate and given you the hostile foreign country in the record that Islam has a killing his critics is understandable he would have to tread very carefully and use diplomatic doublespeak for his own safety. I would think the Catholic Church the Eastern Orthodox Church at a minimum would demand a end to the religious discrimination and return of all Christian churches that Muslims are seized and desecrated and turned into mosques. It is a bad habit the Muslims have taken the grandest temples churches and synagogues when they overrun a land and turn them into mosques. As well as giving the conquered people three choices convert to Islam live as a subdued people i.e.dhimmi subject to many in humiliating rules and paying protection money to Muslims. Or die those are the three choices under Islam and that has to change, it is the only religion left in the world that does this and demands death for any who leave it a rather is the only major religion that does this. There are calls that can get very nasty in the cult member elitists and this of course is one of the hallmarks of a cult, along with total reverence for a dead leader like Muhammad.
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 28, 2006 8:30 PM
Today, I was greatly disappointed. CNN had a special programme today called When Faiths Collide: Christianity vs. Islam. I was excited about today, thinking that finally the truth will come blurting out to many Westerners. Thinking with all the recent happenings, some media mogul finally had enough with Islam, and was going to get the conflict with the Muhammad monarchy all out in the open.
Instead, we get caught by a mock title. What today’s CNN all-day special should have been entitled is Islam the Religion of Peace: Whitewashing Islam. When I watch something like that, I have to ask myself how much did an Islamist pay for it. I tell you the plain pro-Islam bias of the mainstream media is disgusting and outrageous to say the least. To whom did they sell their dignity.
at November 28, 2006 9:28 PM
don't forget... "Erdogan said..."
Pope Benedict XVI can be very subtle.
at November 28, 2006 10:42 PM
Makes me wonder - does anyone here think the Pope may be playing the Muslims at their own game, with a bit of Taqiya - 'yes of course we support a non European Asiatic Islamic country with absolutely no respect for human rights, human life or anything human or humane joining the European Union' - nudge, nudge - wink wink.
But then again if he is being sincere, it's just as well the Vatican is not a European Union member state anyway so it has no say in who does and does not join.
Posted by: GreekFrenchInfidel at November 28, 2006 11:33 PM
I for one am not worried about what the Pope does or does not say in Turkey. The main reason is no one in Europe , outside of Italy , pays much attention to what the Pope says any way.
The Catholic Church has historically been an abomination anyway and did a poor job ( and still does a poor job to this day ) of representing Chritianity.
This Rap Singer duh ahh Ratzinger boy came on strong noting the obveious that Islam has historically relied upon violence to advance it's aims on humanity. But now he is slumping into the comfortable seat of " political correctness " that so hindered John Paul II when he addressed Islam.
It is a sell out Church that will not stand with Christian but rather attempt to stand over them and will hand them over to the highest bidder to bring material rewards to the Church.
It is first and foremost the Humanist and then the Protestants that will bring Islam down. Not the sell out Catholics. The Muslims foolishly see the Pope as some sort of Callip of Chritianity but he is not. The strength of Chrisitanity is in the Protestant movements.
-----Nossy
at November 29, 2006 12:02 AM
To Nostradamus: Sounds to me like you are one of the "Christians" who are getting criticized because you have a big mouth, and act in a radical manner. You need to learn to see all other Christians as your brothers and sisters, or you should stop with the charade of calling yourself a Christian.
I was shocked when I saw the headline because I thought that Benedict was a lot stronger in what he believed and thought. Then I remembered this could be a case of Papal Taqiyya that is meant to placate Erdogan. The Vatican has no weight as far as the European Union is concerned.
Benedict has already set out the terms upon which there is to be dialogue. I do not think that he will bend from those terms.
Sure, it is easy to go along with this idea that Islam is a religion of peace. One can make that statement but add in one's mind a few extra thoughts about what that "peace" means.
Benedict is being careful. His mission to Turkey is not political. Membership to the European Union is a political matter. Amongst other things, he is there for dialogue with the Orthodox Patriarch. He is there to visit the places of interest for a Christian pilgrimage - Ephesus is a very important city to Christians.
I am praying for the success of this mission of Pope Benedict, and I would hope that every other Christian is doing the same. Do we need military weapons to conquer Islam? Or can we follow the example of the early Christians and bring the slaves out of their slavery?
Posted by: Maggie4Life at November 29, 2006 2:27 AM
The pope is quite inmature sometimes, though some moves appear pretty genious.
I remember his speech for his inauguration
He said:
Every non-roman catholic church is a sect.
I say:
Time and tide wait for no man.
... and old man stood by the road and cried ...
Posted by: Arnie at November 29, 2006 3:12 AM
I visited Serbia for a couple weeks a couple years after the war. They hated Clinton over there, and he made then quite anti-american for that matter. The train guards threw our passports on the ground when they saw they were american. The Serbs may have had the right idea as history will show.
Posted by: bondservant
It is sad indeed what happened there.. Clinton did not repay Serbian loyalty from WW2. THAT's a big dishonor - it is more than that really.
They should have NEVER used NATO to attack Serbia on behalf of our common enemies!!
Lo and behold the enemies pay us back so very nicely.. 9/11, Mr BJ clinton!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 29, 2006 3:50 AM
Seems Il Papa is being is being excruciatingly 'correct' and weighing every word.
He is not on his 'home turf' and guest etiquette applies in all its antiquated splendor. Erdogan will hear what he wants to hear but don't trust his version.
Posted by: poetcomic1
That's my sentiments exactly. At least I HOPE that's what he is doing.. weaving a web of intoxicating and meaningless words..
The islamos are easily fooled and seduced by words as we all know.
They aren't the only ones who know Taquiya!
WE still have the BEST lawyers - even if way too many of them are aiding and abetting the ENEMY!!!!!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 29, 2006 3:58 AM
Erdogan is also a lying gypsy, let's hope this isn't true.
Posted by: americaningermany
Kellann.. You KNOW how to make me LAUGH!!
A lying gipsy indeed. And a pickpocket. A schoolyard
bully, but only when he's picking on younger kids.
So now he thinks he's the Big Man picking on an Elder.
Remember THIS, MO-Foes: Not only the Jews and the Christians ARE YOUR ELDERS, but so are the Hindus and the Buddhists.
You need to show some respect. Reverence is actually what you need to show your Superiors.
WE KNOW MORE. We have been around quite a bit longer.
You are nothing but a bunch of PUNKS!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 29, 2006 4:08 AM
l think the European people have more say as to wheter the turks get in the EU.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess
We have a LOT to say indeed, Zena.
unfortunately our whiny liberal politicians
and our MSM stand in the way of what WE
have to say!
Eeven Jorge bin-Bush is trying to bully us
to allow the abomination called turkey into
our Judeo-Christian Societies...
What a FOOL he is.. instead of trying to weaken
Germany in particular and Europe as a whole he
should be focused on weakening the TRUE enemies
of ALL Mankind!!
Bastard!! Rot in HELL!
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 29, 2006 4:15 AM
It is first and foremost the Humanist and then the Protestants that will bring Islam down. Not the sell out Catholics. The Muslims foolishly see the Pope as some sort of Callip of Chritianity but he is not. The strength of Chrisitanity is in the Protestant movements.
-----Nossy
Posted by: Nostrodamus
*They* will LOVE to exploit the divisions among us, Nossy. The differences among us are truly much lesser than waht sets us apart from that cult of war called pigslam!!
Let's let the Pope see what he can do.
Maybe Jimmy Swaggart or Pat Robertson can volunteer to go to Turkey? Or maybe Ethiopia to support our bretheren there?
What say you to this?
Posted by: germaninamerica at November 29, 2006 4:39 AM
The Vatican has already denied this. You should never listen to muslims.
Posted by: roguereligion at November 29, 2006 12:45 PM
According to a statement by the Vatican the Pope's words fell far short of what Erdogan claims they were or meant. the Pope's actual statement was a call for Turkey to transform itself into a society compatible with Europe. There is no committment whatever to Turkey's admission to the European Union.
http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/post/index/600/Turkey-PM-pope-backs-our-entry-into-EU
Posted by: templar at November 29, 2006 1:13 PM
Any statement can be taken out of context. The Pope said that the Holy See hoped Turkey would fulfil the conditions necessary for its entry into the EU. He also made it clear that Turkey has a long way to go before it fulfills those conditions.
Robert, rightly points out that most Muslims don't commit acts of violence. By Erdogan's reasoning, he could say that Robert Spencer says Islam is a religion of non-violent people. Don't trust Erdogan or the dhimmi media. Go to the Vatican websites and see what the pope is actually saying and the context of his words.
He is polite. He is diplomatic, but he is no sell-out.
Posted by: Provoslavni at November 29, 2006 4:35 PM
Erdogans Kithman couldn't stand even for one full day.
Not only has Erdogon violated the rules of diplomatic protocol by speaking in the name of the pope which is also defacto the President the head of the Vatican, but completely twisted the Popes words.
So far from the Vatican and other diplomatic sources.
Posted by: Arnie at November 30, 2006 12:07 PM
A lot of these statements that the Pope wants Turkey in the EU have to be taken in a more critical manner.
Who reported them?
Are they reporting them accurately?
Is the Pope only saying part of what he thinks and being diplomatic about what he is leaving out?
Are not the conclusions that some people are reaching about such-and-such statement actually quite questionable?
For instance:
According to Reuters:
“Asked about Turkey's EU entry bid, which Benedict opposed before his 2005 election as Pope, spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said the Vatican took no political stand but supported Turkey's entry "on the basis of common values and principles."”
It does not follow from this that the Pope thinks that Turkey already has these values and principles, does it?
The Pope also said:
“The Church, as you know, has received a spiritual mission from her Founder and therefore she has no intention of intervening directly in political or economic life.”
That was taken from the Vatican website which is the most authoritative place for the Pope’s comments.
Available here
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/travels/2006/index_turkey_en.htm
The Pope is a master of diplomatic-speak.
It is important to remember that.
at November 30, 2006 3:46 PM
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