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The grotesque attempt to ambush the Pope on his immediate arrival, to lecture him like a schoolboy on the wonderfulness of Islam, to demand that the "theology" of this or that faith be forever beyond any discussion, was all done by Dr. Ali Bardakoglu, head of the state-run religious affairs department.
One can assume that Dr. Bardakoglu is comfortable with, since he is a participant in, the Kemalist-mandated government control of religious affairs that is supposed to ensure that “moderate” clerics reading “moderate” khutbas will prevail. Bardakoglu used and abused the Pope (so much for famed "Muslim" hospitality) and in doing so was ably assisted by Erdogan, who after a fifteen-minute private discussion with the Pope then claimed to the outside world, without any confirmation by anyone, that a Pope who had for more than a decade expressed doubts about Turkish entry into the E.U. had suddenly -- no doubt on the basis of vague and non-committal remarks twisted in timeworn Muslim fashion to say whatever Erdogan wanted them to say -- now supported the entry of Turkey into the E.U.
And that is the headline that goes out while the Pope, still a hapless guest, must refrain from setting the record straight at least while he is still in Turkey. Perhaps even when he has returned to Rome he will not find it wise to directly contradict the Turks, lest their ill-concealed fury create other Santoro-like martyrs.
The intolerable behavior of both the leading “political” figure in Turkey, Erdogan, and the leading “religious” figure in Turkey (it’s a distinction that in Islam means very little, but only Kemalism gives it some minor meaning here), and the stories they have put out about the Pope’s sudden conversion to support for Turkey in the E.U., so quickly reported by the world’s press (eager to collaborate in this nonsense, uneager to show any skepticism) simply demonstrates one more time something that we all know is true, especially when it comes to what Muslim apologists and propagandists have been able to do against the Americans, the Israelis, the Indians, the Christians of Lebanon, the Biafrans, and anyone else who stands in their way and athwart their goals:
A lie travels half-way round the world, while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
Akbar Ahmed, to take a recent example, knows this well. He is a plummy-voiced, smooth-talking "snake" (the noun, I believe, comes from Ibn Warraq). He managed somehow -- he's not the first anglophone, pseudo-"moderate" Pakistani apologist to do so, nor the last -- to get a position filling an academic seat that might, were he not sitting comfortably in it, be given to someone who might enlighten rather than buffalo his naive students.
About those naive students: that plummy voice, those English tweeds (child of zamindars? What is Akbar Ahmed's history as a most unrepresentative representative of Muslim Man?), and above all the little business of taking his students to Pakistan (who pays for those airfares?) where they then go to a mosque. There they see their champion, their soft-voiced teacher-hero, confront those "immoderate" Muslims and tell them they should "welcome" these Christian guests. And so they do. And the students, impressionable and very impressed, come away thinking what a swell guy, what a wonderful guy, what a guy to be trusted, is our own Professor Akbar Ahmed.
A crock. A predictable crock.
The Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove reifies the phrase "fortiter in re, suaviter in modo." As a tactic for Muslims, it had some early success, and Akbar Ahmed and Ali Bardakoglu are doing their best in their own ways to sustain that success, but in fact such success is not capable of being sustained.
Things, you see, are not quite working out. The message of the Akbar-Ahmeds and Ali-Bardakoglus and others desperately trying to disguise or camouflage or explain away or distract Infidel attention onto the trivial isn't quite up to the worldwide task at hand. Not only Bin Laden and Al-Zawahiri and Nasrallah and other terrorists are getting in the way, but so too is Sheik Al-Qaradawi and so many other Muslim clerics, from Tantawi, the former Sheikh al-Azhar, to all kinds of people in Saudi Arabia and Iran and Pakistan, each more blood-curdling than the next.
The problem for Muslim apologists (and their well-paid running dogs, such as Esposito) is that as more of us begin to read and study and observe and make sense, we discover -- and so do all kinds of Infidels -- just a bit too much fortiter, and not nearly enough convincing suaviter. One is playing fast and loose with the Latin here, but what else is to be expected when someone demonstrates a liking for the adverb of manner "fast and loose"?
Bardakoglu and Erdogan know well what it means to play fast and loose. The Infidel world better learn.
Posted by Hugh at November 30, 2006 10:57 AM
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Hugh,
Another great post! You're on a roll today!
Cheers,
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 30, 2006 11:13 AM
"And that is the headline that goes out while the Pope, still a hapless guest, must refrain from setting the record straight at least while he is still in Turkey. Perhaps even when he has returned to Rome he will not find it wise to directly contradict the Turks, lest their ill-concealed fury create other Santoro-like martyrs".
That is exactly what I was thinking. I certainly hope the Pope will speak sensibly when he safely returns to the Vatican. Otherwise, I will write him off as just another phony Western "leader" who's really an appeaser.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 11:15 AM
"You're on a roll today!"
-- from a posting above
Only because of some Hamburger Helper.
at November 30, 2006 12:02 PM
seeing how the Pope is at the mercy of the Turkish government this time and they're even going as far to make sure that he does not do what one of his predecessors did on is visit to Turkey and kneel and recite the prayer and Christendom's greatest church in the Ottoman Empire and Islam kidnapped and turned into a mosque and then a museum . pope Ratzinger is not a stupid man and given the history of Islam and the reaction over his true statements about Islam has been violent and still is violent. And at the risk of being considered paranoid just how hard would it be for the Turkish Secret Service to find a the Islamic fundamentalists willing to kill the pope and an in tturn be shot were trying to escape. Given Islam's history going back to the Jews of Medina that were slain for mocking Muhammad more than likely there are Islamist that would consider it to be an honor to kill the head infidel of what Moslems must consider to be an infidel religion one that in their eyes the followers should either convert to Islam or live as a protected humiliated people called dhimmi paying protection money that Moslems calljizha or die. I would wait for Pope Ratzinger it back to the Vatican before he truly says anything.
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at November 30, 2006 12:24 PM
BTW, St. Nicolaus to be banned in Austrian Kindergartens.
The muslims in Austria don't like St. Nicolaus and don't want their children exposed to this Western tradition.
There we go. muslims rule and we lose.
Posted by: americaningermany at November 30, 2006 11:50 AM
Wonderful-more dhimmitude brought BY the dhimmis.
When will the West impose dhimmitude on its Muslims? Maybe then they'll pack up and return to their beloved ummah.
at November 30, 2006 12:24 PM
Muslims have to hide their supremacist baggage and fraud on trips with Unbelievers because there is not one Muslim country in the world (even Turkey) that is completely secular and pluralistic in matters of religious or unbelief freedom. The worst appears to be Saudi Arabia. Their best is so bad they have to lie or else everyone realizes that "islamophobia" makes sense. People who are accused of islamophobia (re the Psychotic-In-Iran, e.g.) should say "thank you".
Posted by: Frank at November 30, 2006 12:27 PM
You may be on a roll and are wise, eloquent, and knowledgeable. But you are annoying. Oof!
Fortiter in re, suaviter in modo - Resolutely in action, gently in manner. (To do unhesitatingly what must be done but accomplishing it as inoffensively as possible)
from: http://www.yuni.com/library/latin_2.html
at November 30, 2006 12:56 PM
BTW, St. Nicolaus to be banned in Austrian Kindergartens.
The muslims in Austria don't like St. Nicolaus and don't want their children exposed to this Western tradition.
There we go. muslims rule and we lose.
Posted by: americaningermany
This is really disconcerting. Just another thing to set me on fire today regarding those gooks! When will a leader ever stand up to them? What it boils down to is.....the people will have to take matters into their own hands because our governments are not protecting us, or our rights.
Posted by: Bonniea at November 30, 2006 1:08 PM
"Fortiter in re, suaviter in modo - Resolutely in action, gently in manner. (To do unhesitatingly what must be done but accomplishing it as inoffensively as possible)"
-- from a posting above
Now you know perfectly well that I know perfectly well what "fortiter in re, suaviter in modo" means. I was careful to include a little discussion -- I went seemingly out of my way to do so -- to signal that I was playing "fast and loose" with the Latin. See the last paragraph.
"you are annoying."
-- from the same postiing above
As for being "annoying" I hope that with this additional posting I have not disappointed you. I can annoy like nobody's business.
Posted by: Hugh at November 30, 2006 1:13 PM
Going into the adversary's (enemy's) lair is not a good idea. Pope Benedict XVI in his mission to reunite Christendom wanted to reach out to what remains of the Christian Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantium in Moslem-conquered Turkey. I do not know why he had to go into enemy territory to do so. No doubt he is courageous, braving Islamic threats and whipped-up fury. In making himself impotent as far as telling the truth about Islam, however, he put himself at a disadvantage.
He sees himself as a man of religion, ignoring the methods of warfare. A study of war could have helped him. Islam has the advantage of combining warfare with its so-called spiritual parts.
If the pope comes back to the Vatican and tries to correct the impression of placating Islam that he has given us, he cannot regain the at Regensburg.
Posted by: unicorns62000
at November 30, 2006 1:13 PM
ISLAMSFORLOSERS:
"I certainly hope the Pope will speak sensibly when he safely returns to the Vatican. Otherwise, I will write him off as just another phony Western "leader" who's really an appeaser."
I guess you didn't read all of Hugh's post:
"Perhaps even when he has returned to Rome he will not find it wise to directly contradict the Turks, lest their ill-concealed fury create other Santoro-like martyrs."
So don't expect the Holy Father to return to Rome and start ranting against Islam. And in your disappointment, please try to refrain from calling him names like others here do.
at November 30, 2006 1:16 PM
atheling-
I wouldn't insult the Pope, but I would be very disappointed if he continues on with the "Islam is peaceful" sham. I still hope that he will call a spade a spade back in the Vatican, even if it isn't done in fire and brimstone terms that many would like to see. After all, he is a religious leader, not a warlord.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 1:23 PM
americaningermany-
How ironic-the place that produced Hitler and his master race nonsense is now being destroyed by the new master race called Muslims. Now the infidels are becoming dhimmis in their own lands.
What a disgrace!
at November 30, 2006 1:41 PM
No Christians of any quality or intelligence are EVER going to be fooled into believing that Islam is "wonderful" in any way, shape or form. There is nothing remotely wonderful, pleasant, or even GOOD about Islam. The pope must be a saint to listen to such grotesque distortions of reality evidently taken seriously by these Turks. The Bibke speaks of wolves in sheeps' clothing (here English tweed jackets?).
In fact, the pope is probably too polite a man to mention to these creeps who probably already know anyway that Islam stands the concepts of good and evil on their heads and predicates its reign of horrors upon humanity through the confusion it instills in humanity--if killing can be deemed "good" then it may be institutionalized and those opposing this homicidal practice must be "bad" and any or all opponents of institutionalized murder may be legally killed (as this practice by now has been rendered a "good" institution by Islamic "jurisprudence"). Welcome to the "wonderful" world of Islamic propaganda where reality and fantasy are so tangled that even human life gets lost in the resulting mess. So this is the Muslims' idea of "wonderful"? Interesting.
Islam as previously stated is institutionalized murder and hasn't the slightest respect for human life. Its phony Bible is full of factual and scientific errors and its claim to existence lies on a lie (that it worships Yahweh, which it CERTAINLY DOES NOT!!!!!) spread by a fiendish, psychotic mass-murderer.
The pope illustrates a quality that will prove important to humanity if we are to withstand the jihad assault: imperviousness to propaganda and brainwashing. Americans presently need to pass that stuff around!
Posted by: pythagoras at November 30, 2006 1:58 PM
islam's big chance to take over when they're afraid to fight and have been brainwashed into believing that they SHOULD NOT fight.
It's a shame.
Posted by: americaningermany
yes l would love to see that strong "Germanic" trait come through, what has happened the "Saxon" bloodline, let it revive itself and toss out the islamamist now!
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 30, 2006 2:09 PM
I have heard so many of them say things like: "Well you know, we Germans have to tolerate a lot of things now, because of what we are guilty of from WW2".
Posted by: americaningermany at November 30, 2006 01:59 PM
They need to be more like the Japanese. They don't appear to be anguished about their equally brutal record in that war.
Those Germans sound like the mindless zombies that the Islamaniacs are. No wonder they have made great progress there.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 2:10 PM
americaningermany-
I guess the Japanese are lucky-few Muslims are there. So far. It would be interesting to get their take on all this jihad insanity.
As for the Germans the ones you mentioned sounded zombie-like. I didn't want to imply all Germans are. I guess that might explain why germaninamerica is here rather than there. He must have run into enough of the lapdogs to drive him crazy!
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 2:53 PM
The difference between the Germans and the Japanese in their "collective guilt" is because Germany is a Christian nation (or was) and Japan is not.
Unfortunately, as AIG pointed out, that collective guilt has perverted into a sort of self abasement which has destroyed German national pride. I fear that this rejection will be Germany's downfall. Reminds me of A Clockwork Orange. They took Alex the criminal and used extreme methods of behavioral modification on him so thoroughly that he ended up unable to defend himself against others.
Posted by: atheling at November 30, 2006 2:54 PM
AIG and atheling-
I pretty much agree with you both. My guess is that the Eastern view of things is somewhat different than the Western view and that has helped the Japanese deal with their war guilt differently than the Germans. Being an island nation and having a long history of isolation appears to give Japan an even more different view that sets them apart further from other Asian nations. That might explain why China and Korea are still infuriated with Japan's seeming lack of contrition after all these years.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 3:15 PM
Anywhere we would go these days, at least in the West, will be full of political correctness and multiculturalism anyway, but I think people want to hope that the place they emigrate to will somehow be better than the place they are leaving.
Posted by: americaningermany at November 30, 2006 03:13 PM
So true. Much disappointment awaits though.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 3:21 PM
americaningermany,
and all Germans, read "A Letter to the Germans . . . at
http://islamic-danger.blogspot.com/2006/11/moslems-are-not-jews-once-more-with.html
It examines the reason for the Germans's reluctance to come to grips with the Moslem monster that is eating Germany from inside out.
Posted by: unicorns62000 at November 30, 2006 3:30 PM
americaningermany,
Anything on that site is for spreading far and wide.
Thank YOU for doing so to a German readership.
Best regards,
unicorns62000
Posted by: unicorns62000 at November 30, 2006 4:00 PM
Anywhere we would go these days, at least in the West, will be full of political correctness and multiculturalism anyway, but I think people want to hope that the place they emigrate to will somehow be better than the place they are leaving.
Posted by: americaningermany
Agreed. PC first reared its ugly head stateside when a girl I dated whenever she was in NY from her college in Amherst. One weekend right after Halloween 86 she returned from her college and she got into a rant about "political correctness" and how dreadful and fascist it is.
She told me of lesbians who complain about a straight woman showing affection openly to a man and other nice things like that. I thought.. hmm.. that seems like things were in Germany now.
She told of professors establishing literal pecking orders of "the oppressed". Good for her to have such strong feelings about that. There's one woman who'll never be a dhimmi!
And from that day on the little phrase "Politically Correct" has unfortunately never again left the sphere of my consciousness...
It is indeed the Clockwork Orange of all the West. Not only Germany any longer.
Sad that I have to say that Germany and its fascism laid the groundwork for the establishment of PC and the dhimmitude of Indigenous Peoples [who as Gandalf wrote enjoy special protections under the UN chartwer] in their own lands.
The establishment and the subsequasnt fall of the Third Reich is what led to the self-flagellation of all of Europe from whence it sprang to the USA and Canada.
Please note that I firts heard of PC at AMHERST. That says it all, doesn't it? Quite clearly PC oinfected the American public via the Collegiate Establishment from whence it infected the Body Politic, the Media and the Arts.
I am lucky i dropped out when I did!
If I want to shrink my brain I'll do it with wine and beer. Not with the koran or with PC.
PC - NEIN DANKE!!!
at November 30, 2006 6:07 PM
Anywhere we would go these days, at least in the West, will be full of political correctness and multiculturalism anyway, but I think people want to hope that the place they emigrate to will somehow be better than the place they are leaving.
Posted by: americaningermany
Agreed. PC first reared its ugly head stateside when a girl I dated whenever she was in NY from her college in Amherst. One weekend right after Halloween 86 she returned from her college and she got into a rant about "political correctness" and how dreadful and fascist it is.
She told me of lesbians who complain about a straight woman showing affection openly to a man and other nice things like that. I thought.. hmm.. that seems like things were in Germany now.
She told of professors establishing literal pecking orders of "the oppressed". Good for her to have such strong feelings about that. There's one woman who'll never be a dhimmi!
And from that day on the little phrase "Politically Correct" has unfortunately never again left the sphere of my consciousness...
It is indeed the Clockwork Orange of all the West. Not only Germany any longer.
Sad that I have to say that Germany and its fascism laid the groundwork for the establishment of PC and the dhimmitude of Indigenous Peoples [who as Gandalf wrote enjoy special protections under the UN charter] in their own lands.
The establishment and the subsequent fall of the Third Reich is what led to the self-flagellation of all of Europe from whence it sprang to the USA and Canada.
Please note that I firts heard of PC at AMHERST. That says it all, doesn't it? Quite clearly PC infected the American public via the Collegiate Establishment from whence it infected the Body Politic, the Media and the Arts.
I am lucky i dropped out when I did!
If I want to shrink my brain I'll do it with wine and beer. Not with the koran or with PC.
PC - NEIN DANKE!!!
at November 30, 2006 6:08 PM
What's ironic about Japan, however, is that they are also breeding themselves into obscurity. Their birth rate is as appalling as Europe's. Japanese toymakers are going out of business, and they are making robot children for elderly people to use as companions.
Weird stuff.
Posted by: atheling at November 30, 2006 8:18 PM
better than playing it fast and loosely. Sounds like a drunk. ("Come on, Ossiffer, you know I wasn't driving fast and loosely. It's just me in here and the only Loosely I know is a red-head.">)
I actually don't think there's any grammatical sin in either the latin or the english. Fast and loose is predicated on the notion of a predicate, elided though it may be, that stands as an invisible antecedent to the adjective pair.
And if the guy who first used "fortiter in re" wanted to be narrowly quoted, he should have used something a little more prescriptive in the matter.
Posted by: mountainecho at November 30, 2006 10:00 PM
What's ironic about Japan, however, is that they are also breeding themselves into obscurity. Their birth rate is as appalling as Europe's. Japanese toymakers are going out of business, and they are making robot children for elderly people to use as companions.
Weird stuff.
Posted by: atheling at November 30, 2006 08:18 PM
Great-another country the Islamaniacs will flock to. A Taliban style "government" there would have quite a good time destroying temples and statues all over the place.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 30, 2006 10:40 PM
"Great-another country [Japan] the Islamaniacs will flock to."
-- from a posting above
No they won't. Neither Japan, nor Korea, nor China, nor Taiwan, allow foreigners in with anything like the heedless abandon of the United States, which has decided, by some kind of unwritten collective decision apparently, to rewrite the history of Amreica, and to make it the story of Immigrants without any acknowledgement of where those immigrants came from and who founded what on the basis of what beliefs, and of how important it is to allow in only those who possess now, or who can reasonably be expected to possess, an unswerving loyalty to the long-established legal and political institutions of this country. No Believer in Islam can conceivably, if he takes his beliefs seriously, claim to possess an unswerving loyalty to the long-established legal and political institutions of this country, or come to think of it, to anything outside of the cause of Islam and the umma al-islamiyya. This is not my observation. This is what Muslims, in their canonical texts, in the writings of such people as Qaradawi and Sheik al-Azhar Tantawi, and at every Muslim website, stress for the Believers, make sure that they understand.
Why is it we too are not permitted to understand this, and to discuss it, and to formulate immigration policies designed to protect, and not to endanger, the legal and political institutions of this country, and the physical security of its citizens?
It does not seem like much to ask.
Posted by: Hugh at November 30, 2006 10:57 PM
Hugh said
allow foreigners in with anything like the heedless abandon of the United States
It is one thing to allow in a new set of voices to the great Discussion, with their different perspective and new ideas. It is another thing altogether to allow in a group of people intent on stifling any discussion and turning the place, like every place they enter, into their own cultural graveyard.
[Amreica? Is that some sort of homage to a certain finger-quoted "Pakistani" "widow"?]
[My ability to be fast-and-loose with Latin begins and ends with "Semper ubi sub ubi". Sorry 'bout that.]
Posted by: special_guest at December 1, 2006 12:50 AM
"Why is it we too are not permitted to understand this, and to discuss it, and to formulate immigration policies designed to protect, and not to endanger, the legal and political institutions of this country, and the physical security of its citizens?"
Simple: The PC Multiculturalist Template: Islam smells like a rose, the Muslims who happen to be a threat are a tiny minority of extremists unrelated to Islam, the vast majority of Muslims are law-abiding friendly people -- and to think otherwise is to flout the fine tradition of tolerance and of inhospitability to bigotry which America has evolved.
Next question.
Posted by: remote_control at December 1, 2006 2:52 AM
from hugh
(
"Great-another country [Japan] the Islamaniacs will flock to."
-- from a posting above
No they won't. Neither Japan, nor Korea, nor China, nor Taiwan, allow foreigners in with anything like the heedless abandon of the United States"
)
Correct. Their birth rates plummet BUT their solution(s) will be different from the nonsense called a policy in The West.
Korea are importing ethnic Koreans from China ast he countryside has no young women ( they all flock to the cities ).The Japanese, no doubt, will marry many other Orientals from east Asia, and so on.
Whether successful or not, it's a far cry from importing Islam , giving it the keys to the castle and helping the creed settle in by re writing national history.
Suicide by any other name.
Posted by: ewha1 at December 1, 2006 3:39 AM
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