Yeah, I like the way he slams the Imams AND the way he cuts down Americans left and right, about how "paranoid" we are and all...

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 2, 2006 7:44 AM

"As Muslims, we should be the ones who are extremely cautious about traveling by air..."

Uhm,Wrong, Ahmed! As Americans WE should be extremely cautious about traveling by air when Muslims are acting strange!

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 2, 2006 8:01 AM

Ahmed Tharwat

ascribes the USAirways/Imam Rage controversy to American "paranoia" -- and completely misrepresents the facts of the case.

CATTT at lgf posted the Direct link to the Flying Imams police report.

Read the report . . .the details will show exactly
"who" is misrepresenting "facts". Here are a few 'facts' culled from the linked report:

The six imams:

Amad Tafish Shqeirat (state of AZ ID)

Omar Ahmed Shahin (state of AZ ID)

Marwan Sadeddin (state of AZ ID)

Mahmoud Sulaiman (state of NM ID)

Mohamed Said Mitwaly Ibrahim (state of CA ID)

Didmar Faja (state of AZ) -seat 25F - refused to sign miranda warning and stated that all the Imams he was traveling with live in the area of Phoenix and are leaders in the Phoenix area.

An attached report from a passenger, a clergy member on that flight states (some script was difficult to discern and is noted with []'s):

I travel to Turkey frequently and know many muslims personally. The behavior of the group in the gate area was atypical from my experience with muslims. [th?] among other aggressive things [?]contact in response to mine. On board the flight I sat next to someone whose boarding pass said Ibrahim Mohamed. I purposely engaged him in lengthy conversation. Over the course of the conversation the following was revealed:

He is an imam from Egypt who has attended school from kindergarten through PHD at one of the oldest existing islamic universities. He first told me he was doing PHD work in Bakersfield as things didn't add up, I continued to question. He eventually said he was only using the library in Bakerfield, then that he was really advocating/representing muslims here in the US and we doing the work he said related to his PHD. He expressed views I consider to be extreme fundamentalist muslim views. He expressed the problems of non-shariat (islamic law) governments and the extensive problems of this even in the middle east (i.e. Turkey repressing muslims, should be operating under sharia , etc. ) Egypt as well, etc. He [?] that it was necessary to go to whatever measures necessary to obey all that's set out in the Qur'an

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at December 2, 2006 8:05 AM

Frankly Americans cannot be blamed for this after the horric attacks of 5 years ago. This is simply an issue of safety.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at December 2, 2006 8:12 AM

Re: "Islam-phobic country"

There is a similarity between this belief-system's mind set and the criminal mind. The criminal mind does not take responsibility for behavior, blames others, and rationalizes crimes against others. The supremacist nature of this belief-system creates a criminal mind.

Islamophobia makes sense when one looks at the words and actions of the Psychotic-in-Iran, the ravings of Nesralla, OBL, etc. and the demands that Sharia law replace secular law. Such psychotics demand that nonbelievers adjust to their needs and requirements and treat the belief-system as if it is a scientific fact. It's a mental illness.

The belief-system rightly creates Islamophobia for any rational person. To be termed Islamaphobic should be viewed as a compliment. There is very good reason to fear the self-centered criminal mind of people like the Psychotic-in-Iran who treats beliefs as self-evident fact, who blames others for his actions, and who rationalizes and who will rationalize his crimes against others (particularly Israel and America, which in his criminal mind he views as being "controlled" by Jewish people) via his belief-system. Such people never seriously look at facts that contradict their beliefs. They see what they desire to see.

Islamophobia is a rational response to reality.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 8:16 AM

Final thought: Since the criminal mind avoids responsibility for behavior, blames others and rationalizes crimes against others it follows that the best place for the belief-system to find converts will be among criminals. Islamophobia makes sense and is a rational response to reality.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 8:23 AM

Frank,

In other words, Islam creates a culture of sociopaths. And some people are surprised by the sectarian violence in Iraq? If every Jew, Hindu, Buddhist and Christian suddenly evaporated from the world tomorrow, the Muslims would wipe themselves out in just a few decades.

Posted by: Foehammer at December 2, 2006 8:28 AM

The "best" adherents of the belief-system will be those with the criminal mind (which takes no responsibility for actions, blame others, and rationalize crimes against others). It's the perfect belief-system for those who have the criminal mind.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 8:29 AM

Their slams will not be unanswered

Muslims seem not to have any reasons to go against radicals, we know, we know, they call themselves moderate.

Muslims seem not to have any reason not to have inocent children killed, we know, we know, they call themselves moderates.

Muslims seem not to have any reason to stand up against their war on civilian none-muslim targets, we know, we now, they see themselves as moderates.

we-slam, we-slam!!!

Posted by: Arnie at December 2, 2006 8:37 AM

Foehammer-

It has occurred to me as I observe this behavior that it is very similar to the criminal mind. In the criminal mind, the person does not take responsibility for their behavior, blames others, requires other to adjust to their beliefs and rationalizes crimes against others. USAirways/Imam Rage is an example of this. Islamophobia is a rational response to this kind of mind.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 8:38 AM

americaningermany-

There are many excellent studies of the criminal mind and these guys should be handing them out with the Koran.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 8:43 AM

Mr Tharwat said: "Those imams are supposedly teaching us through sermons at every Friday prayer how to behave as a Muslim living in a hostile time."

That is a very telling statement IMO. The Muslims are the only ones showing any hostility!! Not to mention always threatening that infidel uppitiness is going to cause them to stage protests and/or get violent! They'll kill you, or at least threaten to kill you, if you say islam is violent and not a religion of peace! I don't see the myriad critics of Jews and Christians living with 24 hour bodyguards or being unable to sleep in the same place 2 nights in a row...no that would be those who have said something that moslems don't like.

We Americans and citizens of other nations have endured, discovered, and been subjected to probes on our transportation systems, infrastructure and large gatherings of citizens (for Pete's sake, a college student blew himself up in Oklahoma!), foiled terrorist plots (bombs in baby bottles and in someone's shoes to name a couple), broadcasts of raging moslems, destruction of holy places deemed unislamic, the assassinations of political leaders and others deemed a threat to moslems or disparaging the prophet of Satan all around the world and he dare says moslems are living in a hostile time! Unbelievable! That isn't to even mention that the whole rest of society must live with more difficult flying because a few of his co-religionsts think attacking airlines is religiously santioned.

Mr. Tharwat, believe you me. If something drastic happens here in America, then you will see hostility!

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at December 2, 2006 8:43 AM

Check out the police report and an eye witness account.

http://pajamasmedia.com/

This was either staged or a dry run.

Posted by: Abby at December 2, 2006 8:48 AM

americaningermany-

Back in the 70's, when I was going to college, I took one of those career/personality profile tests at Fordham U. I have never been interested in psychology, so I was surprised when the test indicated that I am very good at getting inside the heads of people. The career recommendations were psychologist, marriage counselor, labor-management arbitrator, and politician among other suggestions. However, it said I tended to be "incautiously direct" in my communications with people and that I should be cautious re that because it made me come across as abrasive. It said I am honest. I am that.

The belief-system has a lot of the mind-set that is similar to the criminal mind for the reasons stated. There is much truth in my observation re this.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 9:05 AM

I love the way CAIR makes praying imams on a plane a civil rights issue like Rosa Parks on the bus! What planet did these Moslems grow up on? Was there ever a time in America when a Moslem had to sit at the back of a bus? Was there ever a time in America when a Moslem had to eat in a separate restaurant or had to stay in a segregated hotel? Perhaps these complaining Moslems are anticipating or projecting what they are afraid is logical or a legitimate next demand of the infidel to come.

The segregation of American blacks was a horrible vestige of slavery. But segregation of people who claim the right to blow up buses or planes or hotels or restaurants is not discrimination or racism or phobia. Separation of people who blow up buses or planes or hotels or restaurants is prudent. While not all Moslems have blown up these things, overwhelmingly, only Moslems are doing so!

Posted by: David England at December 2, 2006 9:07 AM

If these imams were victims of anything it is the actions, past and present, of their co-religionists who attempt to target and murder Westerners (especially Americans)and who have flown planes into American buildings invoking help from their god. However, I believe these imams were not "victims" but rather co-conspirators in making these attempts easier to carry out by eliminating profiling at airports and trying to make Americans feel "guilty" about their warrented possession of Islamaphobia in seeking out criminals who want to kill them.

Posted by: Briars at December 2, 2006 9:08 AM

"Hence it comes about that all armed Prophets have been victorious, and all unarmed Prophets have been destroyed. "

-Machiavelli

Something to chew on...

Posted by: bonncaruso at December 2, 2006 9:15 AM

Well, if I were an imam reading this I guess my first tendency would be to start screaming apostate and immediately issue a fatwah against this man. Didn't he just criticize muslims in front of non-muslims?

Posted by: BigDaddy at December 2, 2006 9:21 AM

I guess when you kill 2800 people, others will not be pleased.

Posted by: DrWolffenstein at December 2, 2006 9:28 AM

We have to remember that when we're dealing with muslims everywhere...they have criminal minds.
Posted by: americaningermany

Too true. Our industrial complex has had four muslim tenants come and go.
All were involved in crime. Drugs, stolen goods and label tampering on time expired foodstuffs.

Posted by: Dsinc at December 2, 2006 9:40 AM

As Muslims, we should be the ones who are extremely cautious about traveling by air with paranoid Americans.

Because of all the vicious attacks on Moslems by Infidels up here in Mpls-St Paul?

Funny he didn't mention what happened in the Calhoun Square parking ramp last summer. You remember, when two Somalis accosted a college student, his fiance, and his mother, robbed them, and then shot the young man to death as they shouted Allahu Akbar! (Our god is greater than your god.)

He died. Never did catch the Moslems, and that outperforms the Expedition to Naklah in that respect.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 2, 2006 9:47 AM

"Perhaps these complaining Moslems are anticipating or projecting what they are afraid is logical or a legitimate next demand of the infidel to come."

In the back of the mind of the Muslim sojourning in the West is the fear that our governments, and people, will behave as ruthlessly and savagely as the governments, and people, of Muslim countries do routinely. Muslims by and large have not been enculturated in the organic health of Western polities (and perhaps cannot ever be, truly); and so they harbor a cynical paranoia about the agendas and motives of Western polities. Interestingly, Muslims and Leftists tend to share a consanguinity in this regard.

Posted by: remote_control at December 2, 2006 9:52 AM

I'm with bigdaddy - exactly what I thought. Ahmed's only salvation may be that he displays the same victimhood status that he ascribes to the entire Muslim umma. While he tells the umma to be practical, he tells America that we're the ones who are nuts.

Wake up Ahmed - you live here too. You're letting your theology dictate common sense. It makes you as guilty as the screeching imams.

Posted by: madconductor at December 2, 2006 9:52 AM

The level of sophistication displayed in this and other Islamic soothsaying is better than most criminal psychobabble. He says a lot of things that, to an uninformed reader, would sound somewhat "moderate." However, his omission of the Imams' suspicious dispersal through the plane, and the request for seatbelt extenders distorts the entire picture.

American postmodern culture is the perfect setting for large scale deception (taqqiya). During the cold war, the equivalent Soviet doctrine of maskirovka didn't succeed, because our leaders and, to a lesser extent, the general public, still had enough reasoning skills to "connect the dots" in regard to the enemy’s rhetoric and past actions. Decades of television and relativism seem to have collectively eroded such skills.

Posted by: Clive at December 2, 2006 10:11 AM

This is a lack of common sense and poor judgment issue. Those imams are supposedly teaching us through sermons at every Friday prayer how to behave as a Muslim living in a hostile time.

that said, this muslim does not take to taks any responsibilty of islam for creating "a hostile time"
l know many Americans,and other Westerners are not catching on this scam of the immans, and are having very little patience with their so called plight of "hostile times". something the islamamist have created, we l cant wait for Westerners to put a stop to them.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at December 2, 2006 10:11 AM

a Muslim when traveling can always pray all five daily prayers in the comfort of home upon arrival. The prophet followed this guideline, even though he was among his own devoted followers

I find this to be a fascinating revelation by an otherwise apologetic Muslim. If the imams could have delayed their prayers without consequence, then they were definitely just jacking with us. Mr. Tharwat seems very aware of the first verse below (the seige mentality):

004.101
YUSUFALI: When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
PICKTHAL: And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
SHAKIR: And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 625:
Narrated Ibn Mas'ud:

A man asked the Prophet "What deeds are the best?" The Prophet said: (1) To perform the (daily compulsory) prayers at their (early) stated fixed times, (2) To be good and dutiful to one's own parents. (3) and to participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."

Volume 1, Book 3, Number 90:
Narrated Abu Mas'ud Al-Ansari:

Once a man said to Allah's Apostle "O Allah's Apostle! I may not attend the (compulsory congregational) prayer because so and so (the Imam) prolongs the prayer when he leads us for it. The narrator added: "I never saw the Prophet more furious in giving advice than he was on that day. The Prophet said, "O people! Some of you make others dislike good deeds (the prayers). So whoever leads the people in prayer should shorten it because among them there are the sick the weak and the needy (having some jobs to do)."

Volume 2, Book 20, Number 186:

Narrated Ibn Abbas :

The Prophet once stayed for nineteen days and prayed shortened prayers. So when we travel led (and stayed) for nineteen days, we used to shorten the prayer but if we travelled (and stayed) for a longer period we used to offer the full prayer.

Volume 3, Book 27, Number 32:
Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father:

I was with Ibn 'Umar on the way to Mecca, and he got the news that Safiya bint Abu Ubaid was seriously ill. So, he hastened his pace, and when the twilight disappeared, he dismounted and offered the Maghrib and 'Isha' prayers together. Then he said, "I saw that whenever the Prophet had to hasten when traveling, he would delay the Maghrib prayer and join them together (i.e. offer the Maghrib and the Isha prayers together)."

Sunan Abu Dawud
Book 4, Number 1216:
Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was engaged in the Battle of Tabuk. If he moved off before the sun had declined, he would delay the noon prayer till he would combine it with the afternoon prayer and would offer them together. If he moved off after the sun had declined, he would combine the noon and afternoon prayers, and then he proceeded; if he moved off before the evening prayer, he would delay the evening prayer; he would offer it along with the night prayer, he would delay the evening prayer; he would offer it along with the night prayer. If he moved off after the evening prayer, he would offer the night prayer earlier and offer it along with the evening prayer.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 2, 2006 10:22 AM

here l go again..l a rush..during my working hours.. l meant to say "Americans,and other Westerners are NOW catching on this scam ...

got to run..another border crossing...

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at December 2, 2006 10:24 AM

It never ceases to amaze me how creative muslims can be in the art of deceit. Ahmed Tharwat has outdone himself with this piece. His feigned criticism of the "innocent" imams for not realizing how "Islam-phobic" we Americans are is a left-handed way of trying to make us feel guilty for being aware of the dangers of his false religion and for remembering it's track record. Being aware is not a bad thing, but Mr. Tharwart would have us feel a twinge of guilt when we think of acting on our awareness when the opportunity presents itself (reporting suspicious behavior, etc.), thus causing us to do nothing.

I believe the whole imam thing was staged, but it's not just about making it easier for future terrorists to attack airplanes. The scope is wider. The whole thing is about dulling our senses to the dangers of islam, and those dangers can encompass everything from terrorist acts to the more quiet and subversive forms of jihad whereby the adherents gain a foothold in the target country and slowly begin to exert more and more control over it from the inside.

So having awareness about islam and not being afraid to use it is a good thing, contrary to what Tharwat would have us believe. It's a completely rational thing, not a phobia, and not something to feel guilty about.

Posted by: leper at December 2, 2006 10:43 AM

The Imam said:
"I don't ask for special halal meals on the flight, but just quietly fish out any offending pork that may have found its way into my entree."

What airline is this guy flying? Emirates? Entrees were eliminated in the cost cutting in the wake of 9/11 - I don't remember the last time I saw anything closely resembling that on a domestic flight.

In any case, who does he think he is kidding? They don't "fish out" pork from food dishes - they scream bloody murder if pork is even brought into sight.

Pigs - takes one to know one.

Posted by: BunrattyBill at December 2, 2006 10:46 AM

There is a similarity between this belief-system's mind set and the criminal mind. The criminal mind does not take responsibility for behavior, blames others, and rationalizes crimes against others. The supremacist nature of this belief-system creates a criminal mind.

Posted by Frank

This is true and they do exhibit sociopathic behavior, with a desire to kill in barbaric fashion without conscience. The more I hear about Muslims and their actions, the more I have intense hatred for them. They are demonic and anyone who can't see that is deaf, dumb and blind.

Posted by: Bonniea at December 2, 2006 10:47 AM

American postmodern culture is the perfect setting for large scale deception (taqqiya). During the cold war, the equivalent Soviet doctrine of maskirovka didn't succeed, because our leaders and, to a lesser extent, the general public, still had enough reasoning skills to "connect the dots"

Clive, have you read McLuhan?

The only criticism I have of Spencer and this site (and I'm a happy cash contributor to this, the most imporant site on the Earth) is the failure to elucidate why all the cognitive dissonance, why all the Fictive Reality.

That's the break point, and Fitzgerald has written exactly zero words on this central topic.

Lemme be blunt: People are bullshitting themselves, bigtime, by the billions, and tipping into perfidy.

How can such a thing happen? Why would we sell ourselves into ruin? I know why. It's not that complicated. But nobody wants to talk about ideology, even in here. As a student of Communism, and the sophisticated communications apparatus that surrounded it, that empowered it, I can assure you that not addressing communications topic in the context of Islam is a fatal mistake.

And that central mistake is being made even on these hallowed grounds.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 2, 2006 10:54 AM

Ahmed Tharwat heres some reasons why we are Islamophobic.

Warning very graphic.

http://xrl.us/jihad101

Posted by: km at December 2, 2006 10:55 AM

A couple hundred people get sick from fresh spinach and the whole country became spinachaphobic. Didn't they know it was just a tiny percentage of fresh spinach the e. coli bacteria? You Americans!

Posted by: poetcomic1 at December 2, 2006 10:58 AM

Ahmed Tharwat heres some reasons why we are Islamophobic.

Warning very graphic.

http://xrl.us/jihad101

Pity that they don't hit hard enough. They probably need some help.

Posted by: Arnie at December 2, 2006 11:05 AM

I don't mean to interrupt the sad violin that Ahmad Tharwat is playing, but the imams were not removed from the plane for "praying before they entered the plane" or for "having long beards".

They were sitting in first class without a first class ticket. They were walking back and forth on the plane to talk to each other after the flight attendant asked them to sit down. And they asked for multiple seat-belt extenders when they were not obese (airline security experts say they have been used by hijackers in the past to block access to the aisles), and sat themselves at each exit aisle of the plane (another thing that hijackers have done in the past).

If a person without a first-class ticket sits in the first-class area, and refuses the instructions of a flight attendant to leave, they will be removed, regardless of their religion or ethnicity.

BTW, I didn't know about the significance of the seating pattern, nor about the misuses of seat-belt extenders. That's something only airline security experts would have known. One of the goals of this operation may have been to identify the air marshals on the flight, to learn where they sit, how they communicate with each other, and how they are dressed (their restrictions on attire were relaxed recently).

Posted by: special_guest at December 2, 2006 11:08 AM

Whom shall we pity here?

It's a choice to be muslim and to accept the sharia.

Muslims, you could be free if you only wanted.

Posted by: Arnie at December 2, 2006 11:10 AM

Lemme be blunt: People are bullshitting themselves, bigtime, by the billions, and tipping into perfidy.

The medium is the message.
--McLuhan

At first, art imitates life. Then life will imitate art. Then life will find its very existence from the arts.
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

In a purely visual setting, the news media, presented on our bigass 42" plasma screens with 5:1 audio, has become entertainment (art). While "information" and "history" are looked upon with reflexive skepticism, entertainment is simply slurped into our collective consciousness. Disinformation has found a new home, where visceral response has replaced reflective criticism.

Self deception, in this setting, is socially acceptable. Orwellian isn't it?

Posted by: Clive at December 2, 2006 11:13 AM

The USA isn't Islamo-phobic enough. As long as they don't want Israel to live in their domain we should not let them live in ours. Islamic countries are very hard on Christians. Why should we be easy on these freaks? With their false prophet and phony allah? Islam is a mass hypnosis, a mass delusion, it lowers IQs by 40 points.

Read your phony baloney Koran and stop bothering US citizens. We were here first

Posted by: dennisw at December 2, 2006 11:14 AM

It's nice to see how the Caliphate of Minnesota keeps making the news-first the election of Keith Ellison, then "The Airport Six". Nobody ever heard anything about here until these two events. Now, everybody picks on us here at JW-posters call us stupid and worse.

You know what? People are right to say the Caliphate is full of idiots-it is. This place is a perfect example of what happens when you have people worshipping PC, multiCULTuralism and all other kinds of foolishness for decades. You can figure out which side of the political spectrum this place leans for yourself but it won't take long. Maybe some good will come from all this-let the Caliphate be your guide as to what NOT to be. Don't let this happen to you.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 2, 2006 11:21 AM

"Those imams are supposedly teaching us through sermons at every Friday prayer how to behave as a Muslim living in a hostile time."

I am reminded of Jim Jones (and other cult leaders like him) who pounded it into the heads of his followers that the world was against them, the world wanted to kill them, the world was at the door with weapons ready to destroy them, etc. He lectured them over loudspeakers for hours on end. He inculcated in them an extreme paranoia and fear of the outsider. That's why his followers killed a politician and others and why some of them willingly committed suicide at the end.

It seems that many Muslims view the world very differently than we do. They have a different perspective, a different world history and a different life-goal (which is death). Their beliefs are absolute, black and white, and this life for them is a struggle between good (Muslims) and evil (non-Muslims).

It seems that many imams teach that Christians, Jews and all westerners are plotting to kill them at every turn and are determined to wipe out Islam and defame Allah. Hence, they are living in a hostile, non-Muslim world, and their violent actions towards us are justified as "self-defence". It doesn't matter that I've just smiled and been nice to a Muslim because he knows to the core of his being that I am plotting with the Zionists for his destruction.

Posted by: Josephine at December 2, 2006 11:29 AM

You do understand, Clive. I've read all of Dostoevsky, in college, and it changed me. The Russians are fuck-ups, they are terrible at dealing at the ideological level, but they have clarity, in the extreme, when it comes to practical matters.

So then, the question is how to present the reality to the public, whatever that is.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 2, 2006 11:31 AM

Now if a Christian got down on his knees in the concourse and started praying loudly and chanting, "Oh God" and bowing,etc., don't you think people would be "profiling" this Christian? I don't care who it is or what their religion, anyone acting suspiciously in an airport post 9/11, would grab my attention.

We know from other reports that Muslims are frequently taking flights and acting in a suspicious manner. Whether this is for their own entertainment or they're probing remains to be determined but I don't have a problem with letting every Muslim knowing that there will now be a "Neighborhood Watch" in all U.S. airports.

Posted by: d'infidel at December 2, 2006 11:31 AM

So then, the question is how to present the reality to the public, whatever that is.

Forums such as this one are available in an ever increasing scale. I think the greater question is whether the public wants to know reality.

At the philosophical level, noble people of earlier times recognized the need to reconcile their lives to truth, to get "outside" their own desires and emerge into a larger worldview. The media and communications issue is crucial here, because people now can construct a truth for themselves which appeals to their private passions, using technology (video games, media, etc.).

If objective truth is troubling or inconvenient, there is no negative connotation to "tuning out and turning on," any more than there was in the sixties. A recognition of these factors, and a rejection of the dialectic brainwashing that's taken place in colleges for the last few decades will be necessary before the public will wake up. It seems like they can't handle the truth.

/Jack Nicholson imitation OK. :)

Posted by: Clive at December 2, 2006 11:47 AM

So then, the question is how to present the reality to the public, whatever that is.

Alarmed Pig Farmer,

It's islam that give us the reasons and it depends on us to highlight all their contradictions and t-errors.

We need to do it with everything posssible, using all marketing strategies to spread the word.

Think about a big poster campaign, newspaper anouncements, TV commercials, conferences etc..

We need to counter their propagandas with the same tactics and even more boldly to expose the truth.

Sure there will be sponsors around to support that.

There was always to much bowing because people believed and still do that it was/is a religion rather than an ideology.

We have to focus on the true ideolgy behind their facade, - that shall do it.

Posted by: Arnie at December 2, 2006 11:51 AM

"So then, the question is how to present the reality to the public, whatever that is."

The communication of reality is divisible into two forms:

1) data

2) interpretations of the data.

Data by itself is not usually sufficient to persuade people. Many Jihad Watchers seem to think that it will suffice to merely communicate the data of Muslims expressing, plotting and perpetrating atrocities. I maintain, however, that by and large they are making an erroneous assumption: they don't realize that, in addition to this ever-renewing stream of data, the Jihad Watchers also have developed an interpretation, or interpretive template, by which to process this data into certain conclusions. Because of our already possessed, or developed, interpretive template, the data does suffice, for us. But when we encounter other people out there who don't share this template, we notice (with frustration and annoyance) that the data -- even such an ever-growing mountain of data -- does not often suffice to cause the recipient to conclude that, for example, Islam itself is the problem (and not just some extremist minority that has "hijacked" Islam).

Furthermore, the second form of communicated reality -- interpretation -- itself may be subdivided into categories or types, based upon (among other things) varying degrees of the mutually limiting vectors of flexibility (how open the interpretive template is to modification) and resiliency (how much coherent integrity, preserving it from being too fickle and flimsy), it has.

So the question proposed above must take these distinctions into account, and not confuse data with interpretation. It's a lot easier to simply communicate data than it is to communicate interpretations -- since the latter have to be presented along with a persuasive argument that is more than the mere sum of the parts (contents of data).

Posted by: remote_control at December 2, 2006 11:53 AM

Dear Alarmed Pig Farmer,

...is the failure to elucidate why all the cognitive dissonance, why all the Fictive Reality. That's the break point, and Fitzgerald has written exactly zero words on this central topic.

This is a friendly reminder that you are dangerously close to a "Lack of Familiarity with Hugh's 'Rhyming Esdrujulas with Feminine Endings'" violation. I still flinch when I remember my last scolding. I suggest you repent while you still can.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 2, 2006 11:55 AM

remote_control, some good points indeed.

The muslims are crying and see themselves as victims. We just need to make it clear why.

They need to face the music by truth and not we need to face their kithmans on and on.

I believe that the majority of people will understand and know/feel what's going on, those then need just some guidance to join the big movement. Propaganda is a proven method therefore.

Posted by: Arnie at December 2, 2006 12:01 PM

I don't ask for special halal meals on the flight, but just quietly fish out any offending pork that may have found its way into my entree.

Almost as believable as that ridiculous Night
Journey , winged horse , Gabriel , ascent to Heaven up the light ladder claptrap !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at December 2, 2006 12:11 PM

Yes, be afraid. Be ver-r-r-r-r-r-ry afraid.

I don't care if it's Muslims or illegal immigrants or any other group of whiners who've found a way to burrow into the consciousness of Americans and try to make us feel guilty because they've seen other people get away with it. I'm so over it.

Now is the time to take back our power. Now is the time to learn from the Muslims. If they are covert, we'll be covert. If they smile and hold a knife behind their backs, we'll smile at them and hold a gun. If they go to secret meetings to plan our demise, we'll go to secret meetings to plan their eradication from our country, from Africa's countries, from Europe's countries, from all countries on the face of the earth. It's not enough for us to keep our country safe and then turn a blind eye to our suffering brethren in other countries where the Satanic death cult has no opposition. These effing freaks fold everytime they don't have all their buddies with them.

Let's isolate and alienate. No more fear. They count on blind terror and out of body experiences to get them through a malicious sword swinging episode. Why are we intimidated by this? Everyone here, buy a gun, go down to your local NRA office, learn how to use it and get yourself a concealed weapon permit. Then the next time you see a tall, sword swinging Islamasist, AKA, the guy from Raiders of the Lost Ark, one shot is all it will take. And whatever you do, YOU DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR PROTECTING YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR NEIGHBORS OR YOUR COUNTRY, EVER. AND YOU DON'T FEEL GUILTY.

Here's some Anti-Jihad, Pro-Liberty affirmations that we need to say, everyday. Cut these out and tape them to your bathroom mirror so you can say them, everyday.

Repeat after me:

"I, ______________, no longer apologize for being the awesome American that I am.

I no longer apologize to lying, murderous opportunists who want to use the laws of my country to destroy me & mine, AND the laws of my country.

I am not responsible for the poor choices your Islamic ancestors made in accepting the Satanic death cult of Islam.

I no longer make excuses for your murderous rampages, for your lying taqqiya, for you breaking things and killing people in the course of your work-a-day world or for your bad manners.

I will do everything in my power to get your kids away from you, throw them a lifeline and let them know there is a better life out there and it can be their's, before you teach them to hate and teach them that their only value lies in their ability to lie there and be penetrated or their ability to do the penetrating. I will remind them that they are not mindless Orks, blindly fighting in the army of Suaran.

I am totally willing to tell you Muslims that you have inherent value and that you are lovable. I'm totally committed to blowing your asses away if you don't learn that lesson and you continue to threaten me, mine and my brothers across the universe."

Stick that in your pulled pork sandwich, Ahmed, and fish it out.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 2, 2006 12:15 PM

Islamic-Phobia article and how to get around the problem. by Ahmed Tharwat.

What a piece of self-serving sh*t. You might not like me because I pray 5 times a day?

It is once again the elitist-self-serving-supremacist attitude of these jerks that bubbles to the surface when defending their faith. Well it sux!

It's time to end policial correctness.

Let's start with basic language:

You don't have an issue, you have a problem.

Remember stop using the word: Issue in place of the word Problem.

You can vote on issues, you can't vote on problems.

Call it what it is. When you stop using the PC language, you are telling people that you are willing to do something. No more issues, you have problems. Problems require solutions and changes. Issues can be ignored!

Do you think people won't like you if you don't use PC Language, just the opposite. Those that don't like your non-PC Language, so what? They will not face their problems realistically. Look at what PC got France.

Posted by: credit man at December 2, 2006 12:18 PM

special_guest-

Good comments, I learned more re their behavior. I think they should try the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 step program which begins by taking responsibility for one's behavior.

Bonniea-

I have an aunt who works with criminals on parole. She has pointed out the patterns of thinking with the criminal mind, namely refusal to take responsibility for actions, blaming others, insisting that everyone else adjust to their views and behaviors and rationalizing crimes against other people. It sounds like these clowns on US Air and Jihadists generally.

She has nearly 25 years of experience with this and she told me that the sociopath-criminal is only concerned about being exposed or getting caught. People who committe crimes, who deceive, etc, but who take responsibility for their behavior are not true sociopaths, as per my aunt. However, a red flag is raised when someone engages in behavior that alarms or harms others and those persons blame others for their behavior and take no responsibility for their behavior. It's mental illness.

Not all Muslims have criminal minds, but the belief-system may be a perfect place for such a mind.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 12:20 PM

The guys on US Air should consider this...

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:pS8ysSFoiNEJ:www.stanice.com/links.html+12+step+programs&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 12:34 PM

Holy cow, there is even a 12 step program for gangsters-LOL

http://www.angelfire.com/id/CGAnonymous/

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 12:40 PM

"Not all Muslims have criminal minds, but the belief-system may be a perfect place for such a mind." comment by Frank.

I believe that this is one of the big attractions of ISLAM to prison convicts. It meshes very well with their reasoning. Maybe this was the attraction of ISLAM to Keith Ellison?

Posted by: credit man at December 2, 2006 12:40 PM

Why doesn't he simply emigrate to a pro-muslim country so he does not have to endure the islamophobia here in America?

Posted by: genevieve at December 2, 2006 12:46 PM

So America is now an "Islamophobic" country????? I can't believe our luck!!!!!!!!! It would make my day if America truly was, but somehow I don't think so.

One wonders when people in America (particularly those on the political left) will ever get it through their Manhattan telephonebook-thick skulls that Islam incorporates first-degree murder into its core beliefs and practices and constitutes both conspiracy to commit unlimited homicides and the actual committing of unlimited homicides???

One has to wonder just how many corpses of American citizens it is going to take to convince Americans that Islam is evil personified, institutionalized murder, AND extremely dangerous.

The fact that Islam is classified as a 'religion' in no way, shape, or form makes it safe to share one's country with. It will never be remotely safe to live in the same nation-state where Islamis practiced!

Islam kills people. Avoid it like the plague that it is.

BE ISLAMOPHOBIC AND SAVE YOUR OWN LIFE!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: pythagoras at December 2, 2006 1:17 PM

Islamophobic?

Heck, when I see Muslims headed east or south, I immediately head west or north!!!

BE ISLAMOPHOBIC AND SAVE YOUR OWN LIFE!!!!!!!!

Posted by: pythagoras at December 2, 2006 1:21 PM

I am continuously suprised at my progression into complete intolerance and absolute lack of sympathy for Islam and the religious sensibilities of Muslims, though there are still individual Muslims who I like and admire as people. I hope some CAIR operative is reading this and believes me when I say that five short years ago I would have never, ever thought that I could dislike an entire belief system this side of Naziism. I have come to see the Sharia as the worst belief system of our time and the one to which the goals of the Enlightenment stand most counter.

Copping a victim stance is so rediculous when the seat of your religion has a sword on its flag, does not let non-believers set foot in its holiest city and claims to be the best of all beliefs and the one to which non-believers must submit.

Posted by: tokyobk at December 2, 2006 1:35 PM

tokyobk-

Excellent point. I don't think that these folks (CAIR, etc) realize that many people are arriving at the rational response of islamaphobia based on reason. CAIR people see the criminal behavior of Muslims(not taking responsibility for actions, blaming others, insisting others accept and accommodate their views and behavior, and rationalizing crimes against others) and actually enable such behavior under the pretense of "civil rights".

Islamophobia is a rational response to this criminal mind-set. CAIR is more of a storm trooper/propaganda aspect of Islam than a civil rights organization. It's Ibrahim Hooper playing Joseph Goebbels/Ernst Rohm in this farce.

Islam has many similarities to the Nazi supremacist beliefs in their view toward unbelievers-Kafir. The belief-system rationalizes crimes against unbelievers. Also, like the Nazis, they seem to attract criminals as converts to the belief-system. The Nazis attracted a lot of criminals to its ranks.

Islamaphobia makes sense and is a completely rational response to this supremacist belief-system.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 2:04 PM

P.S.

Sometimes I think Ibrahim Hopper looks like a storm trooper. All he needs is the brown shirt along with his little hat. He's cold bagels when it comes to honesty. The whole CAIR crowd is a storm-trooper/propaganda outfit that is similar to Nazis in their attitude toward Jews and other Unbelievers. They are very deceptive and do demonstrate the criminal mind that refuses to take responsibility for behavior and shifts blame to victims.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 2:13 PM

Pythagoras,

I hesitate to take on the moniker of anything that has "phobic" on the end of it. Too many people buy into the party line without using their brains when they hear a label with the "phobic" suffix.

Instead, how about Islamointelligent or Islamological? Or maybe Islamoreasonable or Islamorealistic. Uh-oh, those are all oxymorons, aren't they, like Islamocompassionate or Islamoloving.

Back to the drawing board. : (

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 2, 2006 2:14 PM

Frank:

I wonder when we will arrive at a new term and what that term will be, since a phobia is an irrational fear.

I would be stupid as a kuffir who values enlightened principles not to fear the spread of Islam since its spread has always meant the dimishment of indivdual rights and the rights of expression, gender equality before the law etc...

But that hardly means I am phobic.

Posted by: tokyobk at December 2, 2006 2:18 PM

OT but still applicable,

Speaking of logic, Gwyneth Paltrow is going to look great covered up in her Burka. (Useful idiot.)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/02/061202162419.xtnkgaet.html

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 2, 2006 2:19 PM

Off topic:

Pete Townshend Believes He Was a Mystical Muslim in a Past Life

Ummah News Links

Posted by: ummahnewslinks at December 2, 2006 2:23 PM

"So then, the question is how to present the reality to the public, whatever that is."

Bush argues that if we pull back from Iraq, the terrorists will be emboldened and follow us back to the States. It’s a sad fact that this may be the best way to bring the electorate to action. Blood in the streets sends a strong message. The proper response will be a Constitutional Amendment classifying the teachings of Mohammed as a criminal cult instead of a religion. Apostates will be welcomed as citizens in good standing.

Those who choose to retain their Islamic faith would be humanely deported to a Muslim country of their choice and provided with enough resources to make the transition to a new life among follow believers. The Military Airlift Command has the assets to do the job in a few weeks.

Posted by: limes at December 2, 2006 2:27 PM

ISLAMOGNOSIS, NOT ISLAMOPHOBIA -- ISLAMOGNOSTIC, NOT ISLAMOPHOBE!!

According to Webster's Dictionary, a phobia is "an irrational, excessive and persistent fear of some particular thing or situation." It appears to be the consensus of most posters on this website that "Islamophobia" is neither irrational nor excessive, but is indeed a rational, appropriate and potentially life-saving response to Islam.

Therefore, to avoid the negative connotations which CAIR and other have managed to attach to the term Islamophobia, I would propose that we substitute the terms Islamognosis for Islamophobia, and Islamognostic, for Islamophobe and Islamophobic. Again according to Webster's, the suffix -gnostic is "a combining form meaning knowledge, recognition." Thus, an Islamognostic is a person who knows what Islam is and recognizes the threat it presents to the non-Islamic world, and Islamognosis is the result of the pursuit of knowledge about the true nature of Islam.

The next someone throws the epithet "Islamophobe" at you, correct them and tell them that you are just an Islamognostic.

Posted by: urbanIIredux at December 2, 2006 2:41 PM

LIMES: Military Airlift Command is what it used to be called, now it is called Air Mobility Command.

As regards what is really going on, those Imams were engaging in a strategy known as boiling the frog.

Or a better analogy is rounding the square.

How does one round a square table, and make everyone think that it was round all along..by slowly, gradually, one shave at a time, taking off the corners.

The muslim strategy is of course terrorism, but terrorism is not just blowing up things, there is social and psychological terrorism.. they push and push and push, wear down the host and the object of their desire.. just like a horny male that wants to get in the pants of a hawt female..he just pushes and pushes and pushes breaking down her resistance.. and finally when she is exhausted (and unable,because she was raised without a backbone, to say freak off jerk) she is vanquished..

This is the Islamic strategy, the US Air operation was merely an example of a tactic in their overall strategy.

Posted by: Nariz at December 2, 2006 2:42 PM

Urban,

I like it!

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 2, 2006 2:43 PM

tokyobk-

Good point. "Rational-Islamofear" or "sane-Islamofear" might work.

The fear of this belief system is entirely justified and rational. To say that someone has irrational fear with Islam is like telling the poor waiters and waitresses on the 110th floor of "Windows on the World" in the Twin Towers that they had an irrational fear of heights when they were dealing with unpleasant reality.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 2:45 PM

Off topic:

Pete Townshend Believes He Was a Mystical Muslim in a Past Life

Ummah News Links

Ah , that explains the kiddie porn matter then !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at December 2, 2006 2:47 PM

Aladdinsane...Good one!

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 2, 2006 2:49 PM

In order to defend the integrity of western civilization intelligently, we might want to provide some sort of nomenclature for the apparent wholesale socialization of the media and academic classes.

A good groundwork for this, I think, can be found in Chesterton's 1908 work Orthodoxy, in which he states: "The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues. When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad."

Watching and reading interviews with publishers and influential journalists, I'm struck by how outwardly nice they are, and most of them will bring up the poor and disenfranchised as those whose interests they must look out for. It's easy to see how even well intentioned idealism can slide into a pernicious ideology, if it is not balanced with a sober historical context and subject to higher criticism.

Posted by: Clive at December 2, 2006 2:52 PM

"Islamorealist" might work. In any case, the very fact we are seeking for words to counter their propaganda slogan tells us a lot about reality on the matter. Getting at the truth and getting honesty from CAIR types is like trying to do that with Nazis. We get slogans.

Posted by: Frank at December 2, 2006 3:06 PM

There is no way to reason with fanatics of any religion or political creed. Fanatics are all the same. Islam is a barbaric faith that turns those that follow its percepts into mindless robots. No peace between the free thinkers and islam will ever be possible and the free thinkers will inevitably be destroyed as even in the west they represent a minority. The left, no globalists etc. are those that in the west are able to unite large number of people, the lefts, and the populists always had that power. Free thinkers will never be able to move the masses.
If the left the center and the right do not unite to contrast the common enemy to our democracies our civilization does not stand a chance of surviving the muslim invasion.
Islam is far more dangerous than Nazism, fascism, or communism. Very few really see the danger that we are facing.
The liberation of Iraq was a fatal mistake. Such a stupid thing to do! Muslims can not understand the concepts of democracy!
Only if the super powers understand the real threat to economic growth that the advance of islam represents then they will probably take the necessary surgical steps that are needed to prevent a new dark age.

Posted by: vermer at December 2, 2006 3:08 PM

"Hence it comes about that all armed Prophets have been victorious, and all unarmed Prophets have been destroyed. "

-Machiavelli

Something to chew on...
Posted by: bonncaruso

David Koresh was armed, in fact he had a veritable arsenal.

Posted by: Nariz at December 2, 2006 3:09 PM

This whole exercise by the imams is just set up to provoke americans into being too ashamed to enforce good security thereby enabling terrorists to attack airlines again.

Just ignore them and do what you need to do.

Posted by: payingattention at December 2, 2006 3:20 PM

I personally do not believe that the Imams were on an intentional dry run for terror though they are indeed an advance guard and moderates in the sense of prefering to subdue the kuffir by non-violent means (that is the kuffir who have the second amendment tucked into their dhimmi belts next to their piece).

I believe they were mau-mauing, grand-standing, bullying us, using our kindness against us, and expecting us to be silent. Think of how else that scumbag whose name escapes me, the one with no job who was advertising for a second wife online, could ask the home minister of the UK how dare he come to a "Muslim area."

I do think there will be a day when it is quite clear that the mass of good hearted Americans, the kind who abhor racism and give every one the benefit of te doubt and good will where it is due, make it quite clear that we care more about our lives then their delicate sensibilities.

Posted by: tokyobk at December 2, 2006 3:34 PM

Nariz

Yes but Koresh went up against a bigger force, and provoked it beyond reason and beyond the point of return.

Just as the Japanese did 60 years ago,

Just as the Ummah is doing now, in spite of itself and with only shallow understanding of both the military and moral power of the West.

Posted by: tokyobk at December 2, 2006 3:37 PM

Two good postings by Nariz.

David Koresh had sex with underage girls, and made threats of violence and made preparations to carry out those threats. Why does this sound familiar? When exactly did we lose the ability to call a spade a spade, or a pedophilic cult a pedophilic cult? Was it the moment when Janet Reno left office, and was replaced by John Ashcroft? Who complained loudly about Koresh's religious rights being infringed by the evil government?

Posted by: special_guest at December 2, 2006 4:15 PM

Groan...The whole siege of the Branch Dividian church was frought with controversy. The one thing I know for sure, is that the gov would not have done that to a Catholic Church, no matter what was going on in there...

Frank...about muslim mental illness... I worked for twenty four years in Californias State Hospital system..
I have been toe to toe, nose to nose, and eyeball to eyball with some of the most dangerous individuals you can imagine. Where bad karma and injustice drip from the walls. Where ideas of brutality and mayhem take form and shape. Where this is no love and little conscience. Where insanity rules supreme...

Sounds a lot like a mosque.

Posted by: duh_swami at December 2, 2006 4:21 PM

ISLAMSFORLOSERS said

Now, everybody picks on us here at JW-posters call us stupid and worse.

The only one I see here criticising Minnesotans is Ahmed Tharwat, and he doesn't count for much in my book. Minneapolis is also the place that shut down the Somali cabdrivers when they tried to start enforcing sharia law restrictions on their passengers.

Posted by: special_guest at December 2, 2006 4:24 PM

duh_swami said

The whole siege of the Branch Dividian church was frought with controversy.

That's a polite way of putting it. Similarly, I think comparing the Branch Davidians to the Catholic Church is, uhhh, an inaccurate and inflammatory comparison.

A cult is a cult is a cult. If we're too timid and PC to stand up to, and shut down, a pedophile cult of a megalomaniac, then there is no hope of dealing with millions of followers of a pedophile cult of a megalomaniac.

If David Koresh can get this much sympathy from y'all, think how much those peace-loving fellow people-of-the-book can drum up at the next interfaith meeting.

Posted by: special_guest at December 2, 2006 4:39 PM

Isabella:

In the words of Shakespeare: "What's in a name? A rose by any other name smells just as sweet."

Names are the least of our concern in my view however unpopular they may be at the moment.

As I say, if you see Muslims heading north or south, head in the opposite direction ASAP. It just may save your life (whatever you want to call such behavior).

HOWEVER, since Muslims did (mis)coin the term "Islamophobia" it may be prudent to find another term to use in its place (one that is more accurate). SO---

How about (drum roll please!) "Islamosavvy"?!!

Pythagoras

Posted by: pythagoras at December 2, 2006 5:32 PM

"David Koresh had sex with underage girls, and made threats of violence and made preparations to carry out those threats. Why does this sound familiar?"

I wonder if the name "Koresh" and Muhammad's tribe, the "Quraysh", have more than a mere orthographic similarity.

Posted by: remote_control at December 2, 2006 5:44 PM

HOWEVER, since Muslims did (mis)coin the term "Islamophobia" it may be prudent to find another term to use in its place (one that is more accurate). SO---

How about (drum roll please!) "Islamosavvy"?!!

Pythagoras

That's quite good, Pythagoras! Then, someone who is "Islamosavvy" would be an "Islamosavant"!

"Islamosavvy" used as a noun would also refer to the kind of knowledge we obtain from non politically correct sources such as this web site and the books by Robert Spencer, Bat Ye'or, Serge Trifkovic, et.al.

Posted by: urbanIIredux at December 2, 2006 5:54 PM

For all my criticism of the failings of this website , I got to thinking about the excellence of the work by Spencer and Fitzgerald.

So, what I did was click on the Donation button and gave $300 to Jihadwatch.org.

Fitzgerald pisses me off with his persistent occlusion on the matter of ideolological communications (i.e., agitprop), for all his skills as a professional intellectual, he's a dumbass on the critical subject of communications, but I gotta give the dude credit for putting his life on the line for the anti-Dhimmi cause.

Hugh and Bob are studs when it comes to street fighting time. They're out there on the corner, ready to take on all comers.

As a former street fighter myself, well, all I can say is that we owe these two. I gave. Have you?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 2, 2006 6:02 PM

stillfedup/special guest...this is not the forum to get into the controversial details of the Dividian seige. However, there are/were plenty of them. I guess you just need to see the movie...

Posted by: duh_swami at December 2, 2006 6:20 PM

Now, everybody picks on us here at JW-posters call us stupid and worse.

The only one I see here criticising Minnesotans is Ahmed Tharwat, and he doesn't count for much in my book. Minneapolis is also the place that shut down the Somali cabdrivers when they tried to start enforcing sharia law restrictions on their passengers.

Posted by: special_guest at December 2, 2006 04:24 PM

That's just today. The last two days has brought a couple of other denigrating comments. But, as I said in the rest of my comment from today it's no big deal. Those outside of the Caliphate must think we are all stupid-it's hard to think otherwise. I'm amazed myself at the idiocy that goes on here all the time. Almost nobody here gets it. Why do I stay? One has to live somewhere and the way the whole world is going the Caliphate of Minnesota is becoming a mere preview of coming disasters. Might as well stay put.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 2, 2006 7:25 PM

I prefer the term islamocognizant unless someone can come up with something that doesn't have the word islam in it since the very word makes me nauseous. I would accept mo-foe if it weren't for the hideous connotation.

Posted by: dms at December 2, 2006 8:32 PM

"According to Webster's Dictionary, a phobia is "an irrational, excessive and persistent fear of some particular thing or situation." It appears to be the consensus of most posters on this website that "Islamophobia" is neither irrational nor excessive, but is indeed a rational, appropriate and potentially life-saving response to Islam."

UrbanIIRedux, I read every response to see if anyone would pick up on the abuse of the word "phobia" before I added my two cents.

I don't believe you'll be able to sell 'Islamognostic' to the masses (or them asses either). "Gnostic" has a religious connotation whether it deserves it or not.

This is a serious issue. We must be able to present our concerns in a manner that does not leave us open to charges of fanaticism or mania; charges that "Muslim Moderates" are always eager to make and delight the bleeding hearts who think they have immunity.

If we are to have a name we must choose it ourselves, and I would suggest that the word Islam should not appear in it.

I open the floor to suggestions with this caveat:

We must be "pro" not "anti". Let us focus our efforts on promoting the blessings of Liberty, illuminating the obvious falsehoods our enemies cloak as "truth" and supporting those who suffer at the hands of Islam.

Posted by: USBeast at December 2, 2006 8:41 PM

"We must be "pro" not "anti". Let us focus our efforts on promoting the blessings of Liberty, illuminating the obvious falsehoods our enemies cloak as "truth" and supporting those who suffer at the hands of Islam."

Okay Beast, how about this novel idea:
PRO-AMERICA!

Posted by: dms at December 2, 2006 8:54 PM

Sorry, I forgot the rest of the world. How about
PRO-FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

Posted by: dms at December 2, 2006 9:31 PM

"Okay Beast, how about this novel idea:
PRO-AMERICA!"

"Sorry, I forgot the rest of the world. How about
PRO-FREEDOM OF CHOICE."

DMS, I like both of them, but we need to be able to sell this. "Pro-America" will not sell outside our borders and won't do well on the East and Left coasts. "Pro-Freedom of Choice" won't sell because those who believe that unborn babies have no rights have hijacked the word "choice".

This is a knotty problem, but I believe it needs to be addressed. "Islamophobia" automatically tars us with the brush of irrationality and that won't do.

We need a name the embodies the message: "Live free or die a slave".

Posted by: USBeast at December 2, 2006 10:17 PM

1)Jihad Watch should have a daily feature: "Dumbest Thing Said By a Muslim". Tharwat would be today's winner.

2)Good thing Tharwat wrote this in the Red Star-had he made these remarks on his TV show nobody would have heard them. Channel 17 is by far the least watched station in the Caliphate of Minnesota. Many are unaware that this channel even exists! With guys like this hosting shows on that station I hope it remains so.

3)What does Tharwat expect? Without 9/11 this site wouldn't exist and most of us wouldn't give a damn about Islam at all. After that atrocity it is only natural to fear and even hate Muslims.
If Muslims are unhappy that they are not popular these days then maybe they should quit doing evil things and saying stupid things. I know from my own experience that I went from thinking the palestinians had a pretty good case for a homeland prior to 9/11 to now favoring any harsh measure Israel takes against them because they are such losers. Must have been all those happy scenes I saw on TV from them in reaction to 9/11.
Thanks Bin Loser-you opened my eyes like never before.

4)As far as I can tell, this "phobia" is nothing.
I don't see Muslims being rounded up and sent to camps or even wearing a yellow crescent on their coats nor do I see these things happening in the future. Muslims still come here every single day-legally and otherwise. Not even mosques known to spew the most jihadist crap have been closed. What phobia is this guy talking about? I see little difference in the treatment of Muslims since 9/11 even if people's feelings have changed. Does this guy advocate giving us happy pills to change such feelings?

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 2, 2006 10:34 PM

Only in America (and maybe in France too) Can a Muslim act uspicious, make everyone nervous, rant rave, ask for seatbelt extenders indicating they might be hiding somethign under their robes,, shout rhetoric that is pro Saddam and anti-American- then turn around, shrug their shoulders, look dumb, say "Whaaaat, we did nothign wrong" and then claim racism- Baloney! Cut the crap Islamics!- nuff said! http://sacredscoop.com

Posted by: CottShop at December 2, 2006 10:52 PM

pho·bi·a (fō'bē-ə)
n.
1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.
2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.

Islamaphobic is often used as a pejorative term, but I view it as a rational descriptor. I lived many years in Saudi Arabia and I hate Islam for obvious reasons; therefore, I am Islamaphobic. Fear, dislike and aversion of Islam is a rational reaction from a sane person.

Posted by: ThirdWorldHeaven at December 2, 2006 11:24 PM

Muslims can go pack sand. I'm sick to death of this PC BS. If you don't want to be profiled, clean up your own house. Until you get your nutbags in line. Expect things to get worse. If we can't say a prayer in school, or display the Ten Commandmants on public property, you can take your prayer room, and stick it in that big black Rubik's Cube you bow to.

Posted by: KoolAidKills at December 2, 2006 11:26 PM

Not islamophobic enough by a long shot.

Posted by: george_rem at December 3, 2006 12:27 AM

Pythogoras,

Islamosavvy? Call me that any day. (I love it!)

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 9:31 AM

"We must be able to present our concerns in a manner that does not leave us open to charges of fanaticism or mania...

"We must be 'pro' not 'anti'. Let us focus our efforts on promoting the blessings of Liberty, illuminating the obvious falsehoods our enemies cloak as 'truth' and supporting those who suffer at the hands of Islam."
Posted by: USBeast

This reminds me of Fjordman's recent article on Dhimmi Watch:

"Is Islam Compatible with Democracy? part 1

"...Our goal is not democracy in itself, meaning elections and one man one vote, but freedom of conscience and speech, respect for property rights and minorities, the right to bear arms and self-defense, equality before the law and the rule of law - and by that I mean secular law – in addition to such principles as formal constraints on the power of the rulers and the consent of the people..."

I agree with this.

Posted by: Josephine at December 3, 2006 10:42 AM

Tit for tat!

As a general rule---Muslims should exercise the same comformity in America as foreigners are requiredd to exercise in Islamic countires.

It's fair....right?

Il Toscano

Posted by: il toscano at December 3, 2006 11:44 AM

Tharwat, knock it off! We all know what prayer looks like. If they were merely praying nobody would have been alarmed. This was just a stunt but of course there are some people that will never ever admit that.

BTW - thanks for that link, IsabellatheCrusader. Another celebrity who doesn't need my uncouth, not-as-smart American money! When Paltrow says stuff like that it just perpuates the myth that we're all too busy eating Cheez-Whiz out of a can to know the difference between legit prayer and such stunts.

Posted by: GoldieLox at December 3, 2006 1:18 PM

Excellent thread, guys 'n gals! It's good to see that the discourse becomes increasingly refined, honed as it were, to a fine edge by honest open argument. It demonstrates that the pen truly is mightier than the sword (and, yes, that is a dig at Islam's "holy book"). Best of all, methinks, is that we the people are not all of like mind.

Speaking of useless entertainment, I am still entranced by the clever concept of the Borg - the nemesis of the USS Enterprise and her (mostly) human crew. I sense an eerie similarity between the Borg and Islam.

To hijack another old adage: Actions speak louder than words. The Borg must overwhelm and then synthesize with its living host, which - by definition - makes it parasitic. It cannot expand its empire where it meets with real resistance, which proves to be intellectual rather than physical. If you can't (or don't want) to out-gun them, then outsmart them. Should be relatively easy to do...

Finally, back to cathode ray tubes and 3GHz Pentium IV processors, you might like to utilize your's by turning to the page below. It links to 2 former Moslems who have also managed to outsmart the Borg by thinking and deciding for themselves...

http://www.islameyat.com/english/audio/former_muslims/former_muslims.htm

My apologies if this link was originally provided by JW. And just a note that there are 7 parts to their story. Well worth watching.

Posted by: maranatha50 at December 3, 2006 10:22 PM

I would rather be Islam-phobic and alive then be excepting and dead...

there is no way that I would ever fly on a plane if I thought that there were a few muslim looking men on it...
An outraged Muslims said, we should be the ones who are extremely cautious about traveling by air with paranoid Americans. What a stupid statement, there is no where where Muslims have been slaughered by non-Muslims in planes... There are many occaisions in the world where non-Muslims should have retaliated but our beliefs are totally different from Muslims, and we dont like violence, we would rather handle things peacefully.

Posted by: Gaye at December 4, 2006 1:59 AM

Well then, if rape, thievery and violence are not to be feared, then what is to be feared ?

Islamophobia is therefore the right reaction of a healthy mind.

I don't mind saying that any Muslim (moderates also) is a potential psychopath.

Posted by: rajagopalan at December 4, 2006 3:07 AM