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Framing this discussion in the context of Klein's radio stunt gives the impression, which no doubt is just what Bernd Debusmann wanted to do, that any distrust of any Muslims in the U.S. is an exercise in crypto-Nazism. And of course, "ignorance" is the problem. Efforts will be stepped up, as if they weren't already in full swing, to convince Americans that any Muslim who commits violence in the name of Islam is not a genuine Muslim, and that the genuine article is peaceful, peaceful, peaceful. And tolerant. One problem with such "education" efforts is that they do nothing to prevent "genuine" Muslims from turning without warning into "false" ones.
Do Muslims in America really want to decrease fear and mistrust directed toward them? Easy. Just follow these four simple steps:
1. Stop blaming violent acts committed by Muslims in the name of Islam on the various sins of unbelievers.
2. Establish nationwide, compulsory programs in American mosques to teach against the jihad ideology and Islamic supremacism, by means including an explicit and definitive rejection of the literal meaning of many passages of Qur'an and Hadith.
3. Stop saying violent or hateful things in private when you think no non-Muslims are around. For example, the imam Umar Abdul-Jalil, executive director of ministerial services for the New York City Department of Correction, was secretly recorded last year while speaking at an Islamic conference in Arizona. Muslims, he said, invoking Qur’an 48:29, must be "compassionate with each other" and "hard against the kufr [unbeliever]." In Britain, Hamid Ali, imam of the mosque frequented by the July 7 bombers, praised the bombers and called their terror attack "good" in a conversation secretly recorded by an undercover journalist. Publicly, he had condemned the attacks. In a mosque in the Czech Republic, a Muslim secretly filmed by a documentary filmmaker says Islamic Shari’a law, including the stoning of adulterers, should be adopted by the Czech Republic. Cleveland imam Fawaz Damra, who has since been deported for failing to disclose his ties to terror groups, signed the Fiqh Council of North America’s condemnation of terrorism, despite having declared at an Islamic conference that "terrorism, and terrorism alone, is the path to liberation."
Do such incidents mean that every Muslim who professes to have adopted Western notions of pluralism and the equality of dignity and rights of non-Muslims and Muslims is dissembling? Of course not. But they do mean that non-Muslims are perfectly justified in being suspicious even when Muslim profess moderation and opposition to terror. Consequently deeds, not just words, are needed. To conclude my four recommendations, genuinely anti-terror Muslims should:
4. Actively work with Western law enforcement officials to identify and apprehend jihadists within Western Muslim communities.
But it is unlikely that any of that will be done. Instead, these poor mistrusted, misunderstood folks will keep crying "Islamophobia" and trying to manipulate the American legal and political systems.
By Bernd Debusmann for Reuters, with thanks to all who sent this in:
WASHINGTON (Reuters)- When radio host Jerry Klein suggested that all Muslims in the United States should be identified with a crescent-shape tattoo or a distinctive arm band, the phone lines jammed instantly.The first caller to the station in Washington said that Klein must be "off his rocker." The second congratulated him and added: "Not only do you tattoo them in the middle of their forehead but you ship them out of this country ... they are here to kill us."
Another said that tattoos, armbands and other identifying markers such as crescent marks on driver's licenses, passports and birth certificates did not go far enough. "What good is identifying them?" he asked. "You have to set up encampments like during World War Two with the Japanese and Germans."
At the end of the one-hour show, rich with arguments on why visual identification of "the threat in our midst" would alleviate the public's fears, Klein revealed that he had staged a hoax. It drew out reactions that are not uncommon in post-9/11 America.
"I can't believe any of you are sick enough to have agreed for one second with anything I said," he told his audience on the AM station 630 WMAL (http://www.wmal.com/), which covers Washington, Northern Virginia and Maryland
"For me to suggest to tattoo marks on people's bodies, have them wear armbands, put a crescent moon on their driver's license on their passport or birth certificate is disgusting. It's beyond disgusting.
"Because basically what you just did was show me how the German people allowed what happened to the Jews to happen ... We need to separate them, we need to tattoo their arms, we need to make them wear the yellow Star of David, we need to put them in concentration camps, we basically just need to kill them all because they are dangerous."
The show aired on November 26, the Sunday after the Thanksgiving holiday, and Klein said in an interview afterwards he had been surprised by the response.
"The switchboard went from empty to totally jammed within minutes," said Klein. "There were plenty of callers angry with me, but there were plenty who agreed."
POLLS SHOW WIDESPREAD ANTI-MUSLIM SENTIMENT
Those in agreement are not a fringe minority: A Gallup poll this summer of more than 1,000 Americans showed that 39 percent were in favor of requiring Muslims in the United States, including American citizens, to carry special identification.
Roughly a quarter of those polled said they would not want to live next door to a Muslim and a third thought that Muslims in the United States sympathized with al Qaeda, the extremist group behind the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
A poll carried out by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an advocacy group, found that for one in three Americans, the word Islam triggers negative connotations such as "war," "hatred" and "terrorist." The war in Iraq has contributed to such perceptions.
Klein's show followed a week of heated discussions on talk radio, including his own, and online forums over an incident on November 22 involving six Muslim clerics. They were handcuffed and taken off a US Airways flight after passengers reported "suspicious behavior" that included praying in the departure gate area.
The clerics, on their way to a meeting of the North American Imams Federation, were detained in a holding cell, questioned by police and
FBI agents, and released. Muslim community leaders saw the incident as yet more evidence of anti-Muslim prejudice.IGNORANCE SEEN AS KEY PROBLEM
Several American Muslims interviewed on the subject of prejudice over the past few weeks said ignorance was at the core of the problem.
"The level of knowledge is very, very low," said Mohamed Esa, a U.S. Muslim of Arab descent who teaches a course on Islam at McDaniel College in Maryland. "There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and some people think they are all terrorists."
Hossam Ahmed, a retired Air Force Reserve colonel who occasionally leads prayer meetings for the small Muslim congregation at the
Pentagon, agreed. "Ignorance is the number one problem. Education is of the essence."
Posted by Robert at December 3, 2006 7:43 AM
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I guess this jerk wanted to pull a "Borat" on his listeners--the same listeners whose attention and participation ensure his salary is paid and his advertisers do well. With "superior" jerks like him, Nazi Germany is more likely to happen--he'd like to ensure that folks who share his open-minded beliefs get installed over the rest of us. Well, jerks like him will be the first to be punished by their eventual Islamic overlords. Good luck Jerry!
Posted by: FallaciFan![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 3, 2006 8:20 AM
Yes, those of us who desire to protect ourselves and our country are just poor ignorant rubes. I do not advocate requiring Muslims to be marked in someway. However, I do agree with those points outlined above. It is not the American people who need "re-education." It is the Muslims among us both U.S. citizen and resident alien who needs to demonstrate conclusively just where they stand in this struggle. Until such time as that occurs they will be viewed as a fifth column and Quislings.
Posted by: Theseus at December 3, 2006 8:22 AM
The muslims continually insist that it is our ignorance of islam that drives our fear. Sadly, it is our increasing understanding of islam, it's violent roots, bloody history, and warrior leader mohammed that lead many of us to correctly despise the islamic culture and the muslims who seek to spread it.
Hossam Ahmed, a retired Air Force Reserve colonel who occasionally leads prayer meetings for the small Muslim congregation at the Pentagon, agreed. "Ignorance is the number one problem. Education is of the essence."
That fact that we still have muslims in government, the armed forces, and important private sector positions shows that we have much to learn. Hossam should be removed from service as should all muslims in government and military. Send them to internment camps. Our education about islam is still lacking and the presence of the enemy in our midst supports that notion.
39 percent were in favor of requiring Muslims in the United States, including American citizens, to carry special identification.
That is a significant number. Perhaps our knowledge of islam is growing. We will know when we have learned enough when muslims are detained, deported, or executed. Then we will have learned.
I want to know if an individual is a muslim. The knowledge could mean the difference between life and death.
Posted by: mtriviso at December 3, 2006 8:27 AM
Hmm. I, also, did not distrust or worry about Moslems before I started doing some reading after 9/11. But then, to the politically correct, multicultural world, having anything bad to say about a person means that you just don't understand them well enough. By the same token, I am curious if this logic has ever been applied to Moslems who hate Christians and Jews? (I'll not hold my breath)
The simple matter is, when two groups have mutually exclusive goals, there really is only a single outcome -- after years of conflict, one or the other utterly loses. Now, if either group changes their goals, then they can co-exist. This would be the desire for an Islam renaissance. But, I'm not holding my breath.
Posted by: Daurnil at December 3, 2006 8:28 AM
The stunt that will not save your life.
The foolishness of moral equivalence makes for fine argument, but is terminal while the bullets are flying.
Like listening to a KGO pinko talk about foreign policy and wondering what planet they are on.
The threat is too serious to countenance a scam artist pulling a cheap trick, losing the opportunity to educate his audience, and passing it off as entertainment.
One must suspect that these "liberals" know what the truth is.
Maybe not.
Posted by: dgene at December 3, 2006 8:30 AM
IGNORANCE SEEN AS KEY PROBLEM
End.
Ironically, for muslims it this is actually the other way around. The more of the truth of islam that people are made aware, the more likely it is that reactions described in the article will be become commonplace.
Up until last November, I had a vague knowledge of islam, but generally thought it was a peaceful (albeit false) religion. By chance, I started reading books and articles written by islamic scholars like Robert Spencer, Serge Trifkovic, Daniel Pipes, Bat Ye'or (an Egyptian Jew who was a victim of islam) and by former muslims like courageous Walid Shoebat (Also former PLO terrorist turned born-again Christian) and Ibn Warriq (an alias, for were he to use his name, he'd be hunted down and killed for apostasy). The aforementioned all effectively debunk the pseudo-apologetics employed by dhimmi hagiographers like Karen Armstrong and deceitful "moderate" muslim groups like CAiR that insist, in spite of what the final word of koran says, that islam is a religion of peace fully compatible with Western notions of freedom, liberty, and human rights.
I am against such knee-jerk reactions suggested in the article, but it is worth pointing out that even if such measures were put into effect, it would still be a far more merciful treatment that many Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists living in muslim majorities have been subjected to for 14 centuries.
That the koran unqualifiedly justifies the actions of obl and tens of thousands of other islamic terrorists is uncontestable; the question is then how we convince muslims to abandon such teachings and embrace freedom, liberty, and respect for all human beings.
I posted this on http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=276 and was banned for being a bigot, if anyone wants to further inform them of the truth, go for it.
at December 3, 2006 8:32 AM
In the unlikely event that anyone involved feels
guilty go here.....
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
...there , you feel better alrady don`t you ?
Posted by: aladdinsane57 at December 3, 2006 8:32 AM
*already
Posted by: aladdinsane57 at December 3, 2006 8:33 AM
Nope, Ignorance is not the problem. The problem is the more informed we are, the more we realize that Islam has at its core a set of barbaric values that we cannot and will not tolerate!
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 3, 2006 8:45 AM
americaningermany,
True, but nevertheless, I still enjoy taking advantage of every opportunity to make them uncomfortable.
Last night, I was at my cousin's house and my cousin's best friend and his best friend's girlfriend came over.
I had previously lent her Spencer's "Politically Incorrect Guide to the Islam (and the Crusades)." She had read some of it, but still had a fresh mind untainted of dhimmitude. I was able to tell her some of the real truth of islam.
It was a good experience that does not come up too often.
She is writting a report on the treatment of muslims in airports. She is worried that if she writes what she really thinks that her "hippie" teacher will give her a bad, unfair grade.
I told her to write what she wants and if she receives a lower than deserved grade, then yell to high heaven to anyone that will listen: the dean, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly.
It was fun.
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 3, 2006 8:50 AM
thanks, americaningermany
Great post!
It may or may not get deleted. But you will definitely be called a bigot, LOL.
Most likely she will have all comments subject to moderation, which will at least slow down the manufacturing lies
I think she has my posts invisible or something, because even though I see them when I go to her site, the lack of response to them would indicate that no one else does.
My response should be the first one, did you see it?
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 3, 2006 8:55 AM
Mr Spencer
Your plan is fine in theory. In practise, it requires the continuous monitoring of all Muslims, and then more. It will require an authority that will dwarf the Spanish Inquisition in size and scope.
Is this what we want to be a permanent fixture in the West as a whole? Western civilisation will be irrevocably damaged.
Posted by: DP111 at December 3, 2006 8:58 AM
If, here and there, one finds examples of what might be painted as hysterical reactions, thereby calling into question the perfectly sane and rational fear of Jihad and the instruments of Jihad that threaten to transform, possibly are already transforming, large parts of Western Europe, that is the historic center of the West and of freedom, that hysteria is the result of the frustration and fury of feeling abandoned by those whose duty, in government and in the press, to instruct and to protect us. When one feels that that is not going on, that instead there is a deliberate effort to hide or minimize instances of the world-wide Jihad, then one is more likely to be too upset to think straight.
Here are some of the reasons for the reactions of some of those callers who took the proffered bait of the talk-show host, intent on showing them all up, and in so doing, to make a false point, or a point that misses the point:
1. How much did you know about the war in Biafra as a response by the southern Christians to a "Jihad"?
2. How much do you find out about Muslim behavior in southern Thailand from NPR or from The New Duranty Times or Bandar Beacon?
3.What have you learned about the tenets of Islam over the past five years since the attack on the World Trade Center?
4. What television program has dared even once to discuss Muhammad as uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, to explain his central role in the mental and emotional lives of Muslims, and to further mention, even once, Muhammad as a warrior who too part in 78 battles, 77 of them offensive?
5. What newspaper, magazine or for that matter the professional journals for those in up to their necks in the "Middle Eastern Studies Association:" (google "MESA Nostra" and "Jihad Watch" for more)have discussed, in detail, the life of Muhammad, and included his approval of the decapitation of the 6500-900 bound prisoners of the Banu Qurayza; his pleasure in the murders of Abu Akaf and Asma bint Marwan; his attack on the inoffensive Jewish farmers of the Khay bar Oasis; his marriage to little Aisha; his "treaty" with the Meccans at Hudaibiyya; and so much more.
5. On what television or radio program, in what publication intended for a mass audience, can a confused but worried and angry non-Muslim find out more about Islam, find out that central to the teachings and worldview of Islam, far stronger and fiercer than any other part of the doctrine, is that the world can be divided between Muslims and non-Muslims, Believers and Infidels, and it is the duty of the Believers to enlarge the Dar al-Islam at the expense of Dar al-Harb until the latter has been swallowed up entirely by the latter; that all loyalty is to be owed only to fellow members of the umma al-islamiyya; that unthinking submission, without further, is required to the Will of Allah as expressed in the Qur'an and properly glossed by the Hadith.
6. Where, at Fort Jackson or Fort Benning or Fort Bragg, are the instructors who teach the recruits and even the soldiers going off, again and again, to fight in a war that becomes a puzzlement and that demoralizes them, for they are not told about Islam, or told only about a few of the rituals (how they need to pray five times a day) or what are demurely described as "cultural attitudes" (i.e., how women are treated, how they may not wish you in their homes, how the mosque is ordinarily off-limits to non-Muslims) but are never given anything like the tenets of Islam, nor the attitudes that arise naturally from Islam, which if the soldiers knew about, would be invaluable in preparing them, in steeling them, for the dangers they are about to pass, and are passing, and would have created a cadre of several hundred thousand well-informed people who would comprehend Islam. Instead they are told nothing of value, and certainly not informed about the hostility toward Infidels, the practice of smiling taqiyya that means nothing, the ferocious aggression that Islam encourages (and that can be played out against Infidels, or against one another), the constant lying and manipulating that is a way of life for so many, the hysterical belief in a Past Greatness that is itself a figment of exaggeration, fed by generations of those who are too lazy to examine the actual contributors to what is called "High Islamic Civilization" (roughly 900-1100 A.D.) and what they actually did, and how that stacks up to what went on, has gone on, elsewhere in the world.
No, not the civilians, not the military, not the journalists (those fierce crusading journalists do not know what to do, will not touch, the subject of Islam), not anyone will intelligently, in the mass media or the in government, deal with Islam. Nobody. No, I meant to write -- Almost nobody.
Where in the Western world is there the steady, intelligent dissemination of this knowledge, which the threatened but insufficiently comprehending peoples of the West deserve and need to have if they are to properly defend themselves?
at December 3, 2006 8:59 AM
americaningermany,
The funny thing is that her hippie teacher supposedly read Spencer's book and claims to not have a problem with it. Her problem is that she does some sort of voluntary work with muslims and has hard time imaginging that her muslim friends could feel that way.
I then explained to my cousin's friend's girlfriend that many muslims are ignorant of what the koran says, or nominal muslims who ignore what the koran says, or that they are faking it and secretly hate them.
The girlfriend also has a friend who used to be muslim but is now catholic and who admitted that most muslims she knew were evil.
I explained that muhammad once said that "War is deceit" and that muslims who consider themselves at war with the Christians, Jews, the US, West, and fun are at liberty to tell any expedient lie to further the cause of islam.
I did forget to tell her about the verse forbidding muslims to take Jews and Christians as friends.
She did however ask me to help her with her report, so I will speak with her again soon. If you can think of good points t make, let me know!
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 3, 2006 9:02 AM
Americaningermany,
Here's how it looks on my screen.
3 Comments >>>
1. Senatortombstone said,
2. Tariq Nelson said,
3. Tariq Nelson said,
4. americaningermany said,
Thanks for checking this out for me.
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 3, 2006 9:05 AM
Nope senator, I don't see your comment over there either.
Seems there's some "stifling of dissent" over there. Saw americaningermany's though.
Posted by: HerrMorgenholz at December 3, 2006 9:10 AM
americaningermany,
I have one more huge favor to ask.
Would you cut and paste this post
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014284.php#c312844
on rachel's tavern for me?
Thanks!
at December 3, 2006 9:16 AM
Good morning American and all here,
I just started reading this thread and saw your last comment about how your ex-Muslim friends told you how the Muslims secretly hate us. Thought is very powerful. Since I was a teenager I've understood that there are things we shouldn't say or do, but also things we shouldn't think, because thought has power. It is not unreasonable to feel there is an atmosphere of hate in our own countries, when in fact, there is, but it's not coming from us; it's coming from them.
I know it's infuriating to put up with this crap in our own country or in your case, the country of our allies. I think we need to start imitating the way they covertly try to undermine us. We need to be covert too. We need to smile at them, all the while working behind the scenes to thwart them at every turn and possibly, to eventually eradicate them from our society. If it's a case of us or them, I'm for us and let the chips fall where they may.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 9:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
How are going to trust muslims who think like this?
Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 3, 2006 9:26 AM
Hugh,
David Selbourne is right. Your spelling is atrocious.
instrumens of Jihiad
lilely
asa
Christans
warrrior
Assocation
google
more)have
6500-900
Akaf
Khay bar
centrral
andproperly
comrepehend
agianst
Please use a spell-checker, lest you be found embarrassing the site.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 3, 2006 9:29 AM
WHAT IGNORANCE??
We see, and read about the behavior of Muslims every single day. Do we ignore what is happening in France,Belguim, Britain,the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden? Do we ignore what happened in Spain, Britain, The United States,Russia, darfur, the Sudan,The Phillipines,and a hundred other places? Do we not hear about the suppression of coptic Christians in Egypt,do we not hear about the suppression of Christians in Turkey,and Indonesia where young Christain girls where beheaded, Do we not hear about the waahabists support of Madrasses, and mosques supported by Saudia Arabia throughout America and other coutries that are teaching Jihadism against us infidels?
There are very few countries untouched by the militancy of the "mythical religion of peace" that Islam is so falsely supposed to be.
We should not be compared to Naziss' Mr.Klein!
Posted by: Mackie at December 3, 2006 9:29 AM
And in Canada, we get pro-Palestinian rallies. Talk about ignorance !
Toronto Sun, December 3, 2006
Feds' Mideast stand ripped
Pro-Palestinian rally wants 'objective' view
By BRODIE FENLON, TORONTO SUN
Pro-Palestine supporters staged a rally outside of the Israeli consulate on Bloor St. W. yesterday to end Ottawa’s “blind support” for Israel.
Newly anointed Liberal leader Stephane Dion must work to restore Canada's "moral authority" on the Middle East by demanding a reversal of Ottawa's "blind support" for Israel, say Palestinian supporters.
"We have to keep the issue of the occupation and the suffering of the Palestinian people under the occupation up front," said Khaled Mouammar, national president of the Canadian Arab Federation, one of about 100 protesters who gathered outside Toronto's Israeli consulate yesterday for a peaceful rally.
"I'm hopeful the new leader can take Canada back to where we used to be: A more objective player in the Middle East," said Mouammar, adding that Prime Minister Stephen Harper "has wasted that moral authority."
PALESTINIAN FLAGS
With red armbands, Palestinian flags and anti-Zionist placards, the crowd braved fierce winds outside 180 Bloor St. W. to denounce Israel's military operations in the occupied territories and Canada's refusal to recognize the Hamas-led Palestinian government.
"We want Canada to recognize Israel for what it is: A racist, apartheid state similar to South Africa," said Hazem Jamjoum, one of the protest organizers. "Under Harper, we have a stated policy of blind support for Israel."
Suzanne Weiss, a Jew whose mother died in the Auschwitz death camp during the Second World War, said it is not anti-Semitic to oppose Israel's "apartheid policies."
"Just as the Nazis struck out at the Jewish people," she said, "so Israel and its allies strike out against the Palestinians."
Brian Hopkins, a semi-retired accountant from Oakville, said he attended yesterday's rally because he's concerned about peace and human rights violations in the Middle East.
"What's happening in Gaza is a sorrowful story and there doesn't seem to be a way out," he said. "A lot of people are growing up in dire conditions ... Many are children and they didn't choose where they were born."
Israel and the Palestinians agreed to a ceasefire last Sunday to end a five-month Israeli military offensive in the Gaza Strip and the firing of rockets by Palestinians into Israel.
Those Palestinian children likely didn't choose to be brainwashed to become suicide bombers either.
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at December 3, 2006 9:31 AM
Hi American,
Yes, I think a lot about the resistance fighters in Europe during WWII. They had to live with the Nazis but knew how to undermine them. We need to give this some thought and get to work on it.
The other day I was driving with a client in a beautiful suburban neighborhood and these two chicks in the hefty bags came walking up the street. Everything was covered but their faces and hands. I remember thinking to myself, how out of place is that? And I also remember thinking, how in my face is that!! I don't think it is too much to ask to follow the traditions and customs of my own country without apologizing, in fact, I'm getting down right militant about it.
I've been wishing everyone a Merry Christmas, even though it's a bit early, but heck, the Christmas music started playing around here on the local radio stations on November 13th. Anyway, I've decided that if anyone gives me the "I'm offended" speech after I wish them a Merry Christmas, then I will say, "Oh, I'm sorry. How about fuck you?" I mean, if they are going to be offended, they should be realy offended, right? Funny though, everyone I wish it to has said it back to me, with a noticable change in their demeanor, for the better.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 9:41 AM
"Please use a spell-checker, lest you be found embarrassing the site."
Posted by: Concerned Citizen
Concerned Citizen - You're joking, right?
Posted by: Josephine at December 3, 2006 9:55 AM
Thanks for the effort americaningermany, but your post did not appear on rhachel's tavern.
oh well.
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 3, 2006 10:00 AM
;)
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 3, 2006 10:01 AM
Good one!
That reminds me. I have The Carpenters Christmas CD which I love and on it is a song called "Little Altar Boy". It's very moving and very haunting. About two years ago I called one of our radio stations and asked a famous night host to play it and we had an interesting exchange. I asked him to play it and I told him about it, how it was haunting, and he said, yes he knew that song and that it was. He said he'd see what he could do but he sounded kind of sad. The next song he played was "Merry Christmas Darling" and I knew, he'd wanted to play it, but couldn't. He was giving me a message and I got it.
Our radio stations may be monitored and sensored but my mouth isn't. I was brought up to be polite and to consider other peoples feelings. But I was also brought up to be a patriot, and there is a difference between hurting someone's feelings just to be a bitch and fighting a foe that wants to destroy you. The Muslims try to make it the same thing, but it's not, and I will never believe it is again.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 10:04 AM
Americans' and Westerners' ignorance of Islam is truly appalling. For instance, many, including our fearless leader "Little Boy Bush," persist in the know-nothing conceit that Islam is a "Religion of Peace."
Given the events of the last few years, to say nothing of the last 1400 years, the extent of this ignorance about Islam is discouraging.
Posted by: BunrattyBill at December 3, 2006 10:07 AM
Actually right after Septmeber 11, the antipathy towards Muslims in the US was much less. I remember Muslim women being escorted by non Muslim Americans etc to prevent any harrasment etc. I also remember a Muslim cleric leading prayers at the National Catherdral. The reason attitudes have hardened is that many Americans have watched in disbelief as organizations like CAIR made it their mission to complain about their lot in the US rather than vociferously condemn the savages who perpetrated this atrocity. The relative silence and denial of Muslims in general over the problems of the jihadi element in their midst has also left Americans extremely disillusioned (rightly or wrongly) about the allegiance of the Muslim population. Again you see that the problem is claimed to be "educational". A complete denial of reality. I found the results of Mr Klein's hoax extremely disturbing but I can hardly say I was surprised by it.
at December 3, 2006 10:13 AM
Call me overly sensitive, but when anyone calls me ignorant ..them is fighting words!
Posted by: TheOmegaMan at December 3, 2006 10:18 AM
Greetings, DP111
You posted:
"Mr Spencer
Your plan is fine in theory. In practise, it requires the continuous monitoring of all Muslims, and then more. It will require an authority that will dwarf the Spanish Inquisition in size and scope.
Is this what we want to be a permanent fixture in the West as a whole? Western civilisation will be irrevocably damaged."
I think Mr. Spencer is asking Muslims to self-monitor.
If they took the initiative to start such programs on their own, it would be a huge gesture of goodwill. Of course, someone would have to check on their self-monitoring process, but I think that could be done without forming a new, Draconian bureaucracy.
I agree that it's important not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater", - meaning not letting our self-protective zeal turn us into something that resembles what we're fighting against.
Posted by: freedomschool at December 3, 2006 10:24 AM
Further requirements:
5. Stop immigration of all Muslims. Start immediate immigration of all Christians from the Middle East who speak Middle Eastern languages.
6. Hire these Christians in public schools and colleges. Divide Americans into 3 groups...one group learns Arabic, one learns Farsi (Persian) and one learns Urdu? (what is spoken in Pakistan and by the Taliban)and require all Americans to learn one of these languages.
7. Use Christian...not Muslim...translators in the military and government. Offer the positions to Christians even if they do know know English and give them a crash course in English. No more Muslim translators anywhere.
8. Create a Manhattan/Space Program challenge and end all import of terrorist and other foreign oil as soon as possible. Set a date and get the whole country and all our brilliant scientific minds on this....energy independence for the U.S. in 10 years! (instead of going to the moon). Then when we have the technology, export it to every country that buys oil from Muslim countries. Iceland got free of foreign energy imports. We can too. It will be painful..so what.
9. To ensure we have Middle Eastern *Christians* immigrating and teaching the classes have them make a video saying the reverse of what Muslims say: There is no god [Muslim god's name] and [name of the found of Islam] is not a prophet.
See other ideas at the coalition formed here:
http://the-910-group.blogspot.com/2006/11/coalition-to-preserve-civilization.html
Posted by: Abby at December 3, 2006 10:25 AM
Yes it makes me angry when I hear that my fellow Americans have been driven to the point of discussing tattooing a few among us. After 9-11 they should have been given a size 12 in the butt, in the general direction of mecca. They are chopping of school girls heads for a ramadam treat and we are pretending to discuss tattoos. What is wrong with that picture, what kind of monsters would play those kinds of games? Maybe we should debate tattooing him with a big fat X right between his eyes, that way our kids could spot him on the street before he hurts any of them.
freedomschool,
Could we set up that self monitoring thingy in your neighborhood first?
at December 3, 2006 10:33 AM
It goes like this:
Little altar boy,
I wonder,
could you pray for me?
Little altar boy,
for I have gone astray,
What must I do,
to be holy like you?
Little Altar boy,
oh let me hear you pray.
Little Altar boy,
I wonder,
could you ask Our Lord,
Ask him altar boy,
to take my sins away,
What must I do,
to be holy like you?
Little altar boy,
please let me hear you pray.
Lift up your voice,
and say a prayer above,
Help me rejoice,
and fill that prayer with love.
Now I know my life,
has been all wrong.
Lift up your voice,
and help a sinner be strong.
Little altar boy,
I wonder,
could you pray for me?
Could you tell Our Lord,
I'm gonna change my way today,
What must I do,
to be holy like you,
Little altar boy, oh let me hear you pray.
Little altar please let me hear you pray.
You have to hear it though, it will blow you away, the way Karen Carpenter sings it.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 10:33 AM
"There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and some people think they are all terrorists."
They are all potential terrorists. There is a slight difference, although not much. In most parts of the South every skunk is considered to be a rabies carrier until known otherwise. Once during a rabies outbreak in Secureundisclosedlocation County, three dead skunks were submitted to the the state for testing; every one had rabies.
If the comparison of Muslims to skunks offends any one here, that's just tough.
Posted by: Pelayo at December 3, 2006 10:33 AM
Pelayo - good point. I have long compared Muslims to colon polyps - benign until they are not, until they turn into a cancer (aka "Sudden Jihad Syndrome") that kills you in a most relentless and unpleasant manner.
The treatment of polyps is to remove them immediately - not just observe them or cross one's fingers and hope for the best.
Posted by: BunrattyBill at December 3, 2006 10:39 AM
People are outraged about this and rightly so; however, I believe there is a Muslim equivalent that visually identifies Christians and Jews by clothing.
The problem is not education. After 9-11 people are more educated about Islam and its imperialist agenda to occupy the world and to replace all non-Muslim governments, cultures and religions with Islam.
We recognize the danger of Islam ideology, and that the ideology in incompatible with Western ideology. Islam does not accept equal diversity.
Islam does not even accept the rule of law...look at Muslim countries that have Islamic governments. They claim that implementation of Islamic law brings peace...so why is there rampant rape, murder, kidnappings, violence in Muslim countries?
We don't need this here. The Muslims need to either do what Robert said concerning reeducation of ***Muslims*** or they need to leave since we will not accept Islam.
Posted by: Abby at December 3, 2006 10:41 AM
Greetings, tgusa
You posted:
"They are chopping of school girls heads for a ramadam treat and we are pretending to discuss tattoos."
I know. That makes our civilization superior. Let's keep it that way.
WE can't set up a self-monitoring thingy for them. They have to do it themselves. If they don't start soon they have no one but themselves to blame for our attitude toward them.
Posted by: freedomschool at December 3, 2006 10:44 AM
The Goths are at the gates and all we can do is argue amongst ourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)
Posted by: Foehammer at December 3, 2006 10:50 AM
Tgusa & Freedomschool,
There is absolutely no motivation for Muslims to self monitor. Their superiority complex will be their downfall.
Abby - AWESOME, AWESOME WEBSITE!!!
Here are a few goodies I gleaned and we need to listen because the seeds of vigilance and our fighting spirit run deep within us:
This is primarily an information war, fought via the television screens and computer networks across the entire globe. The enemy is very adept at it, and has a head start. But the Islamists lack our major advantages: originality, flexibility, technical innovation, and a tradition of free enquiry. These are the skills we will use to build our networks and destroy theirs.
Yes, we are the new fighter class, or following an analytical model, a set. The fighters who compose this set are men and women who have already passed through the initial crucible of life to arrive in the company of fighters whose roots extend down deep, past the arid dust of ideologies. Such fighters have the system within themselves to combat evil.
at December 3, 2006 10:51 AM
Pelayo,
Interesting analogy. Skunks may seem to be sweet creatures but they can sure make your life a living hell.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 10:54 AM
Who cares about Muslims? It is Islam that is the problem.
Given the person of Muhammad who started this death cult, the fact that he is the "perfect man" to be emulated, and the history of Islam which is what actual Muslims did and do when following Muhammad's teachings, the only conclusion one can come to is that Islam MUST BE BANNED in the West (but let us start in the US) until such time as Islam fully reciprocates our tolerance and religious freedom.
Which means never. It is not up to us to help Muslims reform Islam. Eject it from our body politic; we under no obligation to allow a nihilistic ideology of death and destruction to exist here.
Let Muslims work out their own reformation, and when they become human beings, we can let them rejoin the human race.
By the way, if you have not already done so, you owe it to yourself to read Ali Sina who is (perhaps) the leading ex-Muslim on the net. Check out his writings at
and expand out from there, both the old and the new site.
PS: did you all read Serge Trifkovic in the recent FrontPage forum with Bat Ye'or, Thomas Haidon and Mustafa Aykol? He finally blew up at the convoluted, inane apologetics of Haidon and Aykol and called Islam a "collective psychosis." This is precisely Ali Sina's core thesis.
Robert's thesis - "Islam is exactly what it says it is, and here is what is says." is complementary to Sina.
Ethelred - questioningislam@yahoo.com
Posted by: Ethelred at December 3, 2006 10:56 AM
I spoke too soon, the messages did post!
Thanks for delivering truth to Rhachel's tavern, americaningermany and other jihadwatchers.
As much as I preacher to the choir, I enjoy even more pulling willingly ignorants' heads out of the sand!
The people here need the truth!
http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=276
at December 3, 2006 10:57 AM
American,
Islam is Satanically influenced on the metaphysical level. That's why NOTHING is allowed for our well being or even innocent pleasure. The devil hates our guts and he hates God even more, so if he destroys us in a particularly awful way he kills two birds with one stone, so to speak; he destroys us and hurts God who loves us. Anyone who says this is not a spiritual battle does not know what they are talking about.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 10:58 AM
freedomschool,
I agree, in my youth, the decades after WWII, American neighborhoods were filled with veterans of that war. We all heard the stories, as a matter of fact, we had a former German soldier in my neighborhood who had immigrated here after the war. He told us all kinds of stories that as you can imagine captured a group of young boys attention. He was very proud of his honorable service but what Hitler had done to his country left him ashamed and an alcoholic. There are few people in my life that I have felt more sorry for, if any, than that man. So what is the lesson of this? If good men stand by and let evil prevail, no matter what they do, no matter how honorable they behave, it will destroy them.
Isabellathecrusader,
“After 9-11 they should have been given a size 12 in the butt, in the general direction of mecca”.
That’s my viewpoint and I’m sticking to it.
at December 3, 2006 11:06 AM
Islam is not going to reform, except in a negative direction. In fact, as has been said elsewhere, an Islamic reformation is currently underway. But this reformation consists of "getting back to basics"; that is, getting closer to the literal text of the Koran and the sayings and doings of Muhammad--in other words, revival of the perpetual war against non-Muslim humanity.
At present, we cannot begin to protect ourselves legally from this onslaught, because religious freedom is protected under the Constitution. That is the crux of the problem, as I see it.
Therefore, we must press for nothing less than an amendment to the Constitution to the effect:
1. That while the ideology called Islam carries the trappings of religion, and in some foreign countries and locales is considered to be a religion, within the territories of the United States is not recognized as a religion.
2. That Islam is recognized instead as a violent, intolerant, supremacist political ideology totally incompatible with every fundamental tenet of the Constitution, including consent of the governed, equal protection under the law, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of conscience--the entire Bill of Rights.
3. That Islam is recognized, by its own immutable doctrines laid out in the Koran and the way of Muhammad, to be in a perpetual state of war against this Constitution and the people protected thereunder.
4. That no person bearing or advocating this ideology shall be admitted as a permanent citizen or temporary resident of this country or its territories. Those who enter on false pretenses shall be deported without delay.
5. That no person bearing or advocating this ideology shall be permitted to hold public political office in this country or its territories, at any level of goverment.
6. That no person bearing or advocating this ideology shall be permitted to serve in the armed forces, police, immigration, border control, or other security services of this nation.
7. That the President, Congress, and the Courts are required and empowered to resist and confront Islamic encroachment on our freedoms at home and our interests abroad by every means, including force when necessary, consistent with the checks and balances defined in other articles of the Constitution.
Without such an amendment to the Constitution, we will be unable to construct and uphold workable laws to defend ourselves. Any law, regulation, or municipal ordinance, no matter how innocuous, that in any way restricts Muslim sedition will be challenged in court on religious grounds. And, with the copious oil money at their disposal, the Muslims have deep pockets with which to pursue endless court challenges and outright legal attacks. Even when they ultimately fail to win a particular case, they can create paralysis and drain resources better used in productive endeavors.
Posted by: Stendec
at December 3, 2006 11:07 AM
True. Not all Muslims are jihadists. Experts estimate they make up "only" 10-15% of the Muslim population worldwide. Doesn't that make the jihadists larger than all the armies in the world combined by a factor of ten? Must be some truth to this otherwise how would it be possible to simultaneously conduct terror operations in Palestine, Lebanon, Indonesia,Thailand,Egypt, Eurabia, et al.
Lack of trust? Maybe. Fear? you bet. I am begining to connect the dots, plot the trajectory and it is looking more and more as if the jihadists are picking-up rigth where they left-off on September 11, 1683.
ohara
Posted by: OHara at December 3, 2006 11:07 AM
Call me a bigot. Call me a rascist (LOL) or paranoid or whatever you want. My children are not going to be sacrificed on the semen and blood stained altar of Islamic wishful thinking.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 11:08 AM
IGNORANT!!? Oh that's nothing... give it a little more time, a few more security measures in response to some horrific acts against innocents that just happen to be committed by angry "militant" Muslims... then you'll be guilty of APARTHEID like we are in Israel! Now that's big time...
at December 3, 2006 11:09 AM
Abby posted:
"8. Create a Manhattan/Space Program challenge and end all import of terrorist and other foreign oil as soon as possible. Set a date and get the whole country and all our brilliant scientific minds on this....energy independence for the U.S. in 10 years! (instead of going to the moon). Then when we have the technology, export it to every country that buys oil from Muslim countries. Iceland got free of foreign energy imports. We can too. It will be painful..so what."
Now that's an idea! And both the American Right and Left can get behind it. It's patriotic, and it's environmental. What's not to love?
If the next administration, be it Dem or Rep, has fewer oil-money people in it, this might actually happen.
Posted by: freedomschool at December 3, 2006 11:10 AM
Tgusa,
Or a size 13, or a size 14. I'm with ya!
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 11:10 AM
A poll carried out by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an advocacy group, found that for one in three Americans, the word Islam triggers negative connotations such as "war," "hatred" and "terrorist."
Therein lies the problem. Two thirds are totally clueless about Islam. No wonder the enemy is winning.
As for Muslim claims that there is a great deal of ignorance about Islam I agree. Muslims are ignorant when they claim only those Muslims who misunderstand Islam are jihadists and demand death for apostates.
Ignorance of Islam by infidels is also a problem. They need to visit sites like this one to see what it is all about. Maybe then people will see what the danger really is all about.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 3, 2006 11:11 AM
Stendec,
Exactly!
Protect ourselves by declaring Islam a "religio non-grata", close the mosques, and give Muslims here a choice, leave Islam or leave us.
Islam must be pushed out of the West and contained within current Islamic lands. They MUST sell their oil; an oil field must be pumped or it dies.
Let them procreate as much as they wish, IN ISLAMIC LANDS and let it be their problem.
If they attack us, the response must be 100 or 1000 times stronger. Force is the only thing they understand.
Ethelred
Posted by: Ethelred at December 3, 2006 11:13 AM
American,
I believe Allah is Satan too. You will know them by their fruits. What sense does it make for God to create life and then demand in a "holy" book that it be destroyed? It is illogical. It is counter productive, wasteful of resources and just plain dumb. And unfortunately, if you believe what the Bible says and read the last chapter, it chillingly parallels what we are going through right now. I want Jesus to come back but, honey, I really don't want to go through what is supposed to happen before He does! However, if Islam is to usher in the Anti-Christ of the Bible most scholars agree that it will only last 3 1/2 years. So much for the worldwide Caliphate.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 11:17 AM
"Not all Muslims are jihadists. Experts estimate they make up "only" 10-15% of the Muslim population worldwide."
--from a posting above
What is a "Jihadist"? Someone who actively plots? Someone who gives money to support those who actively plot? Someone who gives monoey to build mosques to attract converts from the psychically marginal in the West who are often the most fanatical of Believrs, far outdoing in their new-found faith many of those who may have been born into it? Someone who works to prevent intelligent and justified security measures from being taken by Infidels just because those measures inconvenience him, or he does not want anthing being done that might draw undue attention to Islam, much less critical scrutiny of the contents of the belief-system?
And who are these "experts"? What is an "expert" on Islam and how do such "experts" arrive at their estimates?
It's all pulled from the air, the thin air.
Not to be believed, and certainly not to be used as the basis for any policy.
Posted by: Hugh at December 3, 2006 11:21 AM
Tagrafiti,
You're right. That's why people need to learn to protect themselves NOW. If we wait, how long before guns are registered or outlawed and then you are at the mercy of any sword wielding or rocket launching jihadist who happens to have gatherings in the townhouse next to yours and doesn't want you barbequing pork ribs on your deck because not only is he offended but he's willing to slice up your daughter to prove it to you? In every story I've read about psycho Islamic crimes committed in the US, the neighbors always say, " Oh, but he was such a nice boy." I no longer trust any of them.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 11:26 AM
Okay you guys, this is a little OT but I'm listening to Christmas music as I type and I had to bring this back for your listening pleasure. Sometimes I crack myself up.
(To the tune of, "Walking through a winter wonderland.)
Islamic Wonderland
Where's his head,
See it missing,
By the road,
The blood is glistening,
A horrible sight,
We're shell-shocked tonight,
Walking through Islamic Wonderland.
Where's your bomb?
It's on my waistband.
What's your job?
I die for Islam.
I've got guns and knives,
So run for your lives,
Livin' in Islamic Wonderland.
In the US we'll practice Taqqiyah,
We'll tell you we love our neighbor well,
Then when we've enough to take you over,
We'll slice you up and send you off to hell.
Later on, in the fire,
Your kids and house,
Will expire,
A beautiful sight,
We're happy tonight,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland,
Killin' in Islamic Wonderland...
at December 3, 2006 11:30 AM
Concerned Citizen...........your quote
"Hugh,
David Selbourne is right. Your spelling is atrocious."
I ran Hugh's comment thru SpellCheck (I'm a former NASA technical editor)and none of those misspellings came up. What gives with your computer? Or eyes?
at December 3, 2006 11:31 AM
Concerned,
I did see the other typos that you point out in Hugh's latest(anthing) but you missed"psychically". What's up with Hugh? :)
Regards,
Posted by: scarab at December 3, 2006 11:37 AM
He partially edited the first post.
Notice he still has Akaf and 6500.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 3, 2006 11:39 AM
Concerned hall monitor,
So maybe he’s been up all night? Nobody cares for a tattletale. We can read/spell but thanks for your vigilance never the less.
at December 3, 2006 11:40 AM
BTW Concerned,
My post showed up with incorrect spacing. However, it was correct when I typed my comment.
Regards,
Posted by: scarab at December 3, 2006 11:41 AM
I think that I've seen a request for proposal of engineering for large internment camps. The camps were to be located in the U.S.
Posted by: credit man at December 3, 2006 11:42 AM
@Hugh: "What is a "Jihadist"?"
To me, a practical definition of a jihadist is "any person who accepts as true verse 33:21 of the Koran."
That is, a jihadist is any person who believes that Mohammed is uswa hasana al-insan al-kamil--the perfect model of human conduct for all time.
If that definition includes every Muslim, or most Muslims, then so be it.
Anyone who believes that decapitating 600 bound prisoners, raping women after murdering their husbands, marrying 6-year olds (and raping then at age 9), lying about his aggressive intentions, deceptively making and then breaking treaties in order to conquer others, raiding caravans, demanding 20% of the loot captured from conquered infidels, and assassinating poets and other "enemies," is the example of the perfect pattern of human behavior--that person is a jihadist.
at December 3, 2006 11:42 AM
It's funny, but nobody has ever called me a racist to my face and I'm probably the loudest anti-Islamist around. I wonder how that could be?
(Lots of surprising reasons, but I'll keep the mask on for a few more years.)
The media stunts are only going to get trickier, more common and more vulgar, folks. Don't give in to them.
Islam is your enemy, my enemy and especially the enemy of Muslims -- true irony there. Any more questions?
at December 3, 2006 11:49 AM
tgusa,
I was originally making an allusion to the Selbourne article, and lampooning those who don't actually read his posts for content.
However, now I am quite jealous of the ability to retrospectively edit one's own post.
Signed,
Concerned Hall Monitor
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 3, 2006 11:53 AM
Off topic:
Ayatollah issues fatwa calling for two journalists in Azerbaijan to be killed
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at December 3, 2006 11:53 AM
The reason the West distrusts Muslims is that we can observe their behavior change, as they become more powerful within societies throughout the world. In small numbers they claim victimhood (1%-US), in larger numbers, they feel emboldened to freely spout hate speech (3%-England), then comes organized violent resistance (10%-France), then comes political assassination and attempts to overthrow democratically elected governments (Lebanon), then comes persecution of religious minorities (Turkey), then comes threatening to wipe opposing religions off of the face of the earth (Iran).
The pointy end of the spear may only consist of 15% of the population, but a very large percentage is really good at serving in support roles. Anyone who prays to Mohammed is absolutely deserving of distrust, because Mohammed has established a belief system that snuffs out all others.
Standec; Amen
at December 3, 2006 11:57 AM
Isabellathecrusader - Great song!
Posted by: Josephine at December 3, 2006 12:00 PM
Of course there is Islamiphobia in the West ! Do they think we are stupid? we have EYES and we have EARS ( which is more than we can say for many living under Sharia )we see and read what the Lovely relig.., i mean CULT of Islam has in store for us! it their loyalty to Islam comes before Family and Country. and Death and subjugation are the order of the day.
Wtch this video. http://memritv.org/ #1328
exerpt:
Preident Tom(Ahmadinejad);
"" I have a piece of advice for some of the superpowers. I think it is high time the leaders of America and England listened carefully.
Today, you have reached the END OF THE ROAD - both in our region and all over the world. This method of yours – your aggressive language, your language of selfishness, of the degradation and the coercion of the peoples - has come to an end. I would like to tell you that today, YOUR COLLAPSE and the PROCESS oF DISINTIGRATION of your SATANIC RULE have begun ""
Now i just want to know how this can NOT be considered a Declaration of WAR!?
There was a time when talk like this was enough to get yourself into big trouble.
I am shocked this is not on the front page of every paper, actually i'm not.
Posted by: DUGGY at December 3, 2006 12:02 PM
Concerned Citizen,
Ok, my miskate. Apology accepted?
Signed,
Smellborn.
at December 3, 2006 12:03 PM
Also re: my last post
This retoric has been increasing in tone lately. Iran has been saying that Americas power is waning and that measures to destroy her have been implimented . i just wonder why it is not being taken seriously ? I remember reading somewhere Amhadinejad
saying something along the lines of there being 18 or so strategig sites throughout Amaerica and the West , that if Taken out will detroy the Wests Economy and ability to wage war or even defend itself. or something along those lines.
Are we just going to wait till they do it?
Posted by: DUGGY at December 3, 2006 12:10 PM
Americaningermany, I think Jihadwatcher was referring to the very first comment:
http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=276#comment-11985
Typical dhimmi dhribble.
And in case you're wondering, I can no longer see my comments posted, but all of yours (including the one you cut and pasted for me) are still there.
Thanks!
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 3, 2006 12:13 PM
Here they are protesting for civil rights.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20857109-2703,00.html
The money quote…
“Hardline Pakistani religious leaders have labeled the reforms "un-Islamic, immoral and unconstitutional" and evidence of "Western values infiltrating society".
Fear and distrust? Naw.
at December 3, 2006 12:21 PM
there is no ingornance of islam only atrocities, vileness and evil commmited by muslims across the world.
muslims murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11.
muslims murdered 52 Brits on 7/7
muslims murdered 201 Spaniards on 3/11
muslims murdered 785 Israelis in the last six years.
muslims murdered 2 million plus Christians in Sudan.
muslims murdered a million plus Africans in Darfur
muslims raped millions of women and children in Darfur and Sudan.
muslims murdered 186 children and 158 adults, a total of 354 in Belsan.
muslims have murdered and harmed tens of millions of innocents in the last two decades.
how many muslims have you seen marching and protesting in the streets over the violence and atrocities commited by their fellow muslims????
maybe all of the 1.3 billion muslims are not terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists across the world are muslim..............
until the so called moderate and peaceful muslims take up arms and eradicate the radicals and radicalism in islam, muslims and islam will never be trusted or respected...............
this will never happen for islam and its vile and evil followers intend on ocnquering the world and they will do everything possbile including lying, decit and terrorism to gain their ends.....
do not be fooled by the truthful sounding muslim liar.........
God bless America, Israel, Australia, Canada and our other Allies and our Fighting Forces across the world and keep us Free.
The Texican.
God, Family, America and Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
at December 3, 2006 12:29 PM
I have posted this numerous times because Bukhari explains jihad perfectly.
'Who' is a jihadist is made clear in the last two sentences.
Book of Jihad, on page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam’s publication of Sahih Al-Bukhari: “Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite.”
Hypocrites dont go to Allahs heaven. A HUGH concern to muslims.
I dont believe Islam can be reformed as long as Allah is believed to be God, and his 'uncreated and immutable' book the Quran, to be his undisputed word. The problem with Islamic thinking is that they try to function in a world of 'absolutes'. You will 'absolutely' follow the directions given to you by Allah and his Prophet 'absolutely'. The penalty for 'not' doing that is severe bodilly punishment, up to, and including death, usually by some grusome method.
Everyone is sane untill they are not. 'Good' muslims are 'good' muslims, untill they are 'bad' muslims, which means they are really 'good' muslims. Confusing huh.
The problem is, just which muslims, individuals or groups, will challange the absolute word of Allah, when they know the penalty for doing so is Hell?
Reformers face the double edged sword of the wrath of Allah and the wrath of their brothers. Which muslim is big enough to take on Allah, let him step forward...
at December 3, 2006 12:36 PM
Ah yes, "ignorance" of Islam leads to prejudice? How laughable. Actually, I suspect that the radio host, Klein, is the one who is ignorant.
I've read many times that here in Canada, many Muslims want the Canadian government to identify Muslims (create a registry) -- this is so that Muslims can then enact their own, separate laws (ie., Sharia) to which only Muslims would be bound by, yet have the State enforce (that's prosecute) any violators of said Sharia law. Thus, Muslims would voluntarily list themselves with the Canadian government, and then be governed by Sharia (not Canadian) law. That's the project. But the first step is to have Muslims register...(maybe not such a bad idea? Hey, it's what any number of Muslims want...so, why not?)
Posted by: J.S. at December 3, 2006 12:41 PM
" They want us to ignore their behaviour and pass it off as "a few individuals" and go along our daily business with blinders on.
"
Precisely! I have had numerous debates with friends over that exact point. Alost everyone i know thinks that there is no way they can Hurt us over here, and that I am an Alarmist etc...
Even After i show them Retoric like this :
http://memritv.org/ #1328 , and numerous Jihadwatch articles
They still don't believe .
Posted by: DUGGY
at December 3, 2006 12:41 PM
A friend of mine just came back from a trip to several countries in Asia (including Thailand).
He said that his conversations with locals indicated that there is a rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism throughout the region, and that the average nonmuslim is very concerned.
Posted by: treehugger at December 3, 2006 12:47 PM
Speaking of spell check, and kidding Hugh about his typos....the best I have found is Firefox. It has a spell checker built in and isn't as likely to become infected as IE.
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
at December 3, 2006 12:51 PM
Yeah Firefox rules: http://getfirefox.eliasalucard.com/
Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 3, 2006 12:56 PM
I'll admit that I've been distrustful and fearful of Muslims before 9/11. I think the first time I began to be consciously aware of my dislike of them was when I was about 8 or 9 years old and I read the "Arabian Nights." Very alien culture.
It's not strange at all that Americans have fear and hatred of Muslims. We are at war with Islam. Mars, the god of war, and the planet in our solar system is accompanied by two moons called "Deimos" and "Phobos."
"Hatred" and "Fear."
Posted by: atheling
at December 3, 2006 1:25 PM
In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
The fear and distrust will grow even greater as ignorance re the belief-system gives way to full and deep knowledge of the belief-system.
Posted by: Frank at December 3, 2006 1:28 PM
Muslims are practicing Ameri-Phobia- whining about supposed ill treatment and racism- they're afraid of Americans and counter the only way they know how, by crying foul.
Excellent thread Robert- the Muslims know how they can make amends with America, but htey refuse, so let them instead reap what they sow. Time to start ignoring the whining comming from people who won't lift a finger to help in the war on terror. http://sacredscoop.com
Posted by: CottShop at December 3, 2006 1:38 PM
Is it just me or is that high pitched whine coming out of the muslim world deafening?
Posted by: Ronin at December 3, 2006 1:51 PM
Well considering how much the arab and muslim world hates America, why should Americans trust them?
Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 3, 2006 1:56 PM
CAIR and their appologist think we are overly sensitive to muslims? l guess Americans overreacted after 9-11, how many muslims were shot, killed, raped, beat up? oh but they got mean stares.. well l guess that counts at being overly sensitive..
everytime muslims do bad things, muslims and their appologists say in the media, that they are so fearful of this so called muslim backlash? well where is it? l think they are fearful of a backlash, because in their cesspool countries,when there is a backlash, head roll! l mean literally roll! & buildings burn down. well l know patience is running real low, and if anything should happen, l would not be surprised if the government bring out the police to protect muslims, becuase the non-elites will run out of patience.
at December 3, 2006 1:57 PM
Foehammer:
"It's funny, .......I'm probably the loudest anti-Islamist around."
Want to arm wrestle for that title?
at December 3, 2006 2:00 PM
CottShop,
Regarding your link, there seems to be some seriously flawed thinking in Oakland.
http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/oakland-ebonics.html
http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_328214757.html
Yep, there they are again.
at December 3, 2006 2:00 PM
Maybe the first thing on the agenda towards eradicating Islam would be to rremove CAIR from American soil. How could we help Andrew Whitehead's group over at Anti-CAIR? We need to strengthen our position and spread the word that CAIR is out to make Sharia #1 in America and destroy our Constitution. If the average American really understood this the howling would be unending.
Any ideas?
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 2:17 PM
The Goths are at the gates and all we can do is argue amongst ourselves Foe HammerWhile I agree with your sentiment, using the Goths and Vandals as an example is piss poor and inaccurate. These Germanic Tribes were Christians, and had suffered under Roman exclusion and persecution.. they did indeed sack Rome, but that is all they did, they plundered and left, unlike the Romans (e'en the Christian Romans) who subdued peoples by use of mass extermination polcies, including beheadings (e.g. the example on Trajans column when he invaded and massacred Dacia, whose silver and wealth he coveted.
I find parallels in the spread of the Islamic Empire and the Roman Empire. I also find parallels in the use of the sword to spread both Christianity and Islam.. and the bloody, and emotionally charged environment as various Christian sects fought for supremacy.
Take the Pilgrims that fled to Massachussetts, in reality they were seeking the freedom to practise their intolerant version of Christianity..Calvinists who have left a lasting legacy and stain on the American psyche.
Not much difference between the Calvinist (regardless of denomination) and the Muslim, the only thing that restrains the Calvinist (and the hardline Papist) is the common sense, laws of men and the secular society in which they have to operate..a secular society which they wish to bury and replace with their own very muslim like form of theocracy. And those of the Dominionist persuasion (and many are without knowing it) would even stone apostates, adulterers, juvenile delingents, disobedient women, gays and less than faithful Christians..per the Mosaic Laws.
Dominionism is not a religion, it is a religious ideology that sweeps across religions and sects.
Posted by: Nariz at December 3, 2006 2:23 PM
Judaism has the injunction to "remember you were aliens in Egypt" by which it makes clear to its' practitioners they must abide by the moral code of the Ten Commandments both with respect to Jews and non-Jews. Christianity has the story of the Good Samaritan which again makes clear that the moral code regulating conduct is not solely applicable to its' intra-religious relationships.
By contrast, Muhammad by his acts and words revoked the Ten Commandments as an absolute norm on which the prior religions were based. These commandments now applied only to muslims, the "kufr's" belongings, wife, and life were fair game for Muhammad and his followers. Even if you dropped all the explicitly jihad theology, the rest of the Hadith, Quran and Shariah is so filled with this double standard that dehumanizes the "kufr",that the persecution of the "kufr" would likely happen anyway if all those dehumanizing things weren't trashed as well.
So a muslim by definition believes in Muhammad as the prophet of God and the Koran as the Word of God, which means he believes the jihad and the double standard with regards to kufr is divinely ordained. So when a muslim tells you he rejects violent jihad (which if you watch closely, even the "moderate" muslims very rarely say -they usually say "terrorism", which could equally mean I support violent jihad but I think attacking schools is going tooo far), this statement seems mutually exclusive with the logical and general accepted meaning of the statement "I am a muslim". Which means that person seems to be making one false statement, or he doesn't possess reasoning capabilities, either of which is enough to make one naturally suspicious.
Posted by: godfreyofbouillon at December 3, 2006 2:39 PM
Given the events of the last few years, to say nothing of the last 1400 years, the extent of this ignorance about Islam is discouraging.
Posted by: BunrattyBill at December 3, 2006 10:07 AM
Given the slow and steady rise of anti-muslim sentiment in the U.S., it appears that more and more Americans are becoming less "ignorant." That is encouraging.
I think most of us would agree that the only way to dispel warm and fuzzy misconceptions about islam is through "education", the same solution advocated by the whining imams, CAIR officials, and other assorted muslim fifth columnists. Education is defintely the answer; the more one knows about islam, the more one hates it.
Posted by: Susanp at December 3, 2006 2:39 PM
""muslims murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11.
muslims murdered 52 Brits on 7/7
muslims murdered 201 Spaniards on 3/11
muslims murdered 785 Israelis in the last six years.
muslims murdered 2 million plus Christians in Sudan.
muslims murdered a million plus Africans in Darfur
muslims raped millions of women and children in Darfur and Sudan.
muslims murdered 186 children and 158 adults, a total of 354 in Belsan.
muslims have murdered and harmed tens of millions of innocents in the last two decades.
how many muslims have you seen marching and protesting in the streets over the violence and atrocities commited by their fellow muslims????""
AMEN!!!
The Texican said it right..
Have you ever hear of a Christian burn a temple or Mosque to the ground in the name of faith?
Temples and Churches have been destroyed by Muslims, why is that?
hmmm
Posted by: nomorecorrectness at December 3, 2006 2:47 PM
Isabellathecrusader,
I think the first step in dismantling CAIR is to somehow get the FBI to declare them a terrorist organization, and freeze their assets. I must admit that I am amazed that this hasn't happened already.
There are numerous links between CAIR and terrorists.
Anyway, I think that if the FBI would just freeze those assets, CAIR would become less effective in the legal arena. And, from there, they could be dismantled by a coordinated effort from the community. (like that will happen...)
Anyway, that's just my two-cents...
Cheers,
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 3, 2006 2:54 PM
You know, it's funny. I first came to this site when I heard about the family from New Jersey who had their throats slit because the dad and the sixteen year old daughter were fighting jihad in Internet chat rooms. That was over two years ago. Since then I've read everything I could get my hands on about Islam and jihad and have come to some pretty good conclusions.
Last week on Thanksgiving eve there was some graduate student named Liska who got on the site and started claiming that we were all a bunch of ignorant hatemongers. (Isn't that just like a graduate student...What is she about 25 years old?) People started listing their credentials and it was eye opening. You know, the forefathers were called all kinds of crappy names when they decided they'd had enough from the English and they weren't going to take it anymore. The goal amongst the Islamists and the other traitors in our midst is to put us on the defensive and confuse us into stasying apart, thinking it's hopeless and not forming any groups that could effectively fight them. Along with killing people and breaking things, in a war, people lie A LOT!
Good. Let them think we're stupid. Then when our counter attack is implemented they won't know what hit them. Since we are not a violent people, we need to start with educating our spheres of influence and getting it across to them that they need to do the same. Show them the videos like Obsession and that jewel that someone posted last night, the You Tube video called Jihad 101 where they show a Muslim guy sawing off a Muslim guys head. That one was sobering. Show that when someone spouts the lemming mantra, "Islam is a religion of peace."
They are relentless so we must be relentless. what if everyone here bought ten copies of Robert's books to give to family and friends this holiday season? We could make Robert rich but also get the word out, since his writinga are so concise and easy to read.
at December 3, 2006 2:58 PM
Thanks Bulldog,
That makes sense. But who runs it and how beholden are they to Nancy Pelosi?
American,
When I saw the absolute disregard those guys had for the guy getting his head cut off one can only surmise that they must be possessed. What human being could get through one hack let alone saw with glee and then arrange the head on the guys back like some Halloween pumpkin. These people are an effing nightmare.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 3:36 PM
In response to the post by Nariz, who wrote in part, that there's:
"Not much difference between the Calvinist (regardless of denomination) and the Muslim, the only thing that restrains the Calvinist (and the hardline Papist) is the common sense, laws of men and the secular society in which they have to operate..a secular society which they wish to bury and replace with their own very muslim like form of theocracy."
Yes, Calvinism and Islam share certain common characteristics (dogmatic, puritanical, supremacist, etc). That's superficially true.
So why then did the United States turn secular?? Why hasn't Iran or Saudi Arabia turned secular? What accounts for the difference? (I believe this is a fascinating question which needs to be addressed.)
One explanation which has been put forward argues that Calvinism was always on the periphery -- Calvinism was never mainstream, but on a frontier zone. Ditto for the early Puritans who broke away from the Church of England. They were "outsiders" (and by "mainstream" standards, too harsh).
Islam, by comparison, experienced almost a mirror opposite in its development. Thus the mainstream -- the center -- of Islam was austere and rigid (with the break-away, frontier areas being more lax). Thus when Islam reverts back "to normal" -- it's back to the heartland which is strict and austere.
at December 3, 2006 3:41 PM
There is a persistent theme of 'educate about Islam' 'they are ignorant of Islam' over and over again?
Very persistent.
Do I hear a national call for more Islamic education? Are we about to be barraged with Islamic propaganda? Me thinks I feel a wind a comin'.
Posted by: Kay at December 3, 2006 4:02 PM
Actually, thanks to them I am educated about Islam. And with every rape, murder, stealing of lands and amassing Islamic troops on the Ethiopian border I'm becoming more and more educated everyday.
Thanks Islam, I couldn't have done it without you!
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 3, 2006 4:25 PM
STOP RACIAL PROFILING!
We should be ashamed of ourselves! It's time we stopped believing terrorists against the West (and Thais, Indians, etc.) are Moslem or Moslem Arabs!
We American MUST be fair
Read how we CAN do it
If we all pull together!
http://islamic-danger.blogspot.com/2006/12/stop-racial-profiling-just-because.html
Posted by: unicorns62000 at December 3, 2006 4:27 PM
Remember, some of these guys actually hear "voices" telling them to kill. Some of that can be attributed to a mental illness, but I also believe it can be demonic.
Posted by: americaningermany at December 3, 2006 03:55 PM
That explains perfectly why some Muslims do what they do. They're merely imitating Mr. Perfect.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 3, 2006 4:32 PM
"So why then did the United States turn secular?? Why hasn't Iran or Saudi Arabia turned secular? What accounts for the difference? (I believe this is a fascinating question which needs to be addressed.)"
1) Modern Western secularism grew out of Christendom.
2) This growth was a long and painful birthing process, lasting at least three centuries (beginning in the 16th century).
3) While it was a painful process involving much dispute, disagreement, rancorous debate and physical conflicts including bloody wars, it also was an organic evolution, indicating a natural affinity for the unfolding of secularism in Christian civilization.
4) With regard to the latter point of #3, all exceptions one can point to in history and in current society may be regarded as exceptions that prove the rule.
5) The vast majority of Christians in the modern West are thoroughly enculturated in the dominant culture of secularism, and they maturely accept its principle of separation of Church and State.
6) A large portion of the vast majority of Christians in the modern West are, indeed, only nominal Christians, and many are in various stages of decomposition from being strictly speaking Christians.
7) The millions of Western Christians who are in various degrees of disengagement from their dogmatic Christianity have a rich and powerful culture of secularism to turn to, a culture which, furthermore, has within its vast cafeteria -- aside from a rich palette of agnostic and atheist culture -- innumerable flavors of spirituality drawn from an anthropology of other cultures and eras of unprecedented scope (not always of reputable scholarship, but that's another story) in all world history.
8) The millions of Western Christians in the modern West have for at least the last 100 years included untold numbers of outright ex-Christians who suffer no penalty whatsoever for their apostasy -- nor for the critiques and even blatant mockery of their former Christianity many of them might engage in.
9) The Muslim world with regard to #1-8 above suffers from impoverishment and sociopathologies which severely inhibit their maturation and induction into the modern world, and which partake of an internal culture of intolerance of, and antipathy toward, all non-Muslim cultures -- an internal culture that tends to nourish behaviors that are dangerous for all non-Muslims.
10) Modern Western Leftism tends to be ignorant of #1-9 principally because of its anti-Western counter-culture which has become crystallized in PC Multiculturalism -- making it therefore a semi-conscious willful ignorance; while modern Western conservatives tend to be ignorant of #1-9 because of various influences, listed in descending order of importance:
a) most modern Western conservatives have become seriously infected by the PC Multiculturalist virus which was incubated and nourished in modern Western Leftism but which has become mainstream and dominant in the sociopolitical cultures of the West;
b) many modern Western conservatives suffer from a more generalized amnesia of the danger of Islam (an amnesia which set in by the 18th century as Islam receded from power and influence on the world stage and as the modern West continued to gain global superiority on a spectacular scale, increasing at an exponential rate with each passing generation) which afflicts the whole Left-Right spectrum in the West;
c) a smattering of modern Western conservatives cultivate their own quasi-Gnostic antipathy, in varying degrees rooted in Christianity, toward the modern West, which distracts them from appreciating both the benefits of Western secularism and the danger of Islam.
Posted by: remote_control at December 3, 2006 4:36 PM
Concerned Citizen
David Selbourne was talking about the spelling of people on the right - he wasn't being specific abou
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