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Jamie Glazov interviews Gregory M. Davis, author of the excellent Religion of Peace? at FrontPage:
Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Gregory Davis, the managing director of Quixotic Media and producer of the feature documentary Islam: What the West Needs to Know. He received his Ph.D. in political science from Stanford University. He is the author of the new book Religion of Peace? Islam's War Against the World.FP: Gregory Davis, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
Davis: Thanks for having me.
FP: What motivated you to write this book?
Davis: The book is a direct result of the documentary and seeks to expand on the latter's material. My old friend, Bryan Daly, and I had the opportunity to make a small movie and we wanted to tackle something that no one else had, something of social import that was poorly understood. The facile way in which politicians, commentators, and academics dismiss Islam as a 'religion of peace' indicated to us that there was more that needed to be said on the topic. The Muslim terrorists claim to be doing the will of Allah, while Western leaders insist that Islam is peaceful. The obvious question was: who is right? There is no a priori justification to assume that peaceful Muslims represent authentic Islam while violent Muslims do not.
FP: How would you interpret the West's illusions about Islam?
Davis: The West is guilty of the ages-old error of projection, of imposing its own ideas, beliefs, and aspirations onto the other guy. When Westerners approach Islam, they imagine that it is a religion like others that they are familiar with - like, say, Christianity. They see Islam as basically another item on the religious menu available in an integrated world. What they fail to understand, however, is that Islam is decidedly outside the Western tradition and therefore Western assumptions are inapt when assessing it.
In Islam: What the West Needs to Know, we talk with Robert Spencer, Walid Shoebat, Bat Ye'or, Serge Trifkovic, and Abdullah Al-Araby, who all affirm that the most important aspect of Islam not understood in the West is that Islam is less a personal faith than a social and political plan for organizing humanity - really, a system of government.
It was only in the West that religious power developed in parallel with secular power but distinct from it thanks largely to the doctrinal distinction in Christianity between giving 'to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God's what is God's.' While religious and secular power have certainly commingled at times in the West, it is fully possible for the two to coexist separately. But in Islam, there has never been a distinction between religion and political power; the two are inseparably united. An Islamic society is invariably a theocracy ruled by Sharia (Islamic) law, which is understood as God's prescribed legal code for all mankind, based on the commandments of the Koran and the precedents set by Muhammad.
There can be no question of the type of government in Islam because Islam is a government, which Allah through Muhammad has ordained to comprehend the entire earth. Once the political nature of Islam and its universal pretensions are grasped, it is not hard to see why Muslims and Muslim societies are so hostile toward the rest of the world.
FP: The Islamization of Europe is occurring at a lightning speed. What do you make of it?Davis: It is truly astonishing that a civilization as organized and materially powerful as Europe today is voluntarily going to its death. The Europeans could certainly forestall the Islamization of their continent, but so far they have shown no stomach for it. Already portions of Europe's metropolitan areas are de facto Islamic states ruled by Sharia law - the London Telegraph mentioned this the other day with remarkable equanimity.
The Parisian police have admitted that they are in the early stages of a civil war. The negative growth rates of the native Caucasian populations mean that Europe is committing generational suicide while its Muslim populations continue to grow very rapidly. While Muslims in Europe are still poorly organized and outside the conventional halls of power, they nonetheless posses something invaluable that Europe does not: faith. Europe has lost its faith and with it the will for self-preservation. The Europeans who fought to defend Europe through the centuries during the major waves of jihad knew what they were fighting for. They had faith in their God and in the inherent legitimacy of their civilization. Their successors today are freely throwing away what their forebears gave their lives to preserve. It is a tragedy on a civilizational scale and should be a cautionary tale for those of us in North America.
FP: So is there any possibility of building democracy in the Islamic world?
Davis: In a word, no. If one means by democracy nothing more that some kind of nominal electoral process, then technically there are already democracies in the Islamic world, but that definition is not terribly meaningful. If ones means democracy as an open society on the Western model with freedom of speech, religion, and equality before the law, then the answer is categorically no. As we saw in the elections held in the West Bank and Gaza, the will of the people there is for Islamic government.
It is possible to have elections in an Islamic country as long as Sharia law is not violated - which is hardly what we would call democracy. Democracy implies some sort of pluralism, which is the very antithesis of a Sharia state. Installing genuine democracy would first require a program of de-Islamization, which would be simply impossible.
The only means of achieving a form of secularism in an Islamic country is through the sort of repression we see today in Egypt, Pakistan, even Turkey. In Islam, there can be no freedom of religion, freedom of speech, equality of the sexes, or anything that transgresses the highly specific dictates of Sharia law. Any kind of popular movement by Muslims is by nature away from secular, genuinely democratic principles and toward a theocratic, Sharia state. While there are nominal Muslims who would prefer Western democracy to Islamic Sharia - such as those who fled the Iranian Revolution in 1979 - they are being false to their faith, and in any Islamic context, they will not stand against their more aggressive, orthodox counterparts.
FP: What do you think the U.S. needs to do in this terror war in general and in Iraq in particular?
Davis: The 'war on terror' is misnamed. Terrorism is a tactic, not a goal. It would have been absurd to have declared war against 'sneak attacks' after Pearl Harbor but this is essentially what we have done. It is the goal of Islamic terrorism that we need to understand, and this requires an understanding of Islam itself. Islam and its faithful adherents are trying to undermine our secular governments with the ultimate aim of replacing them with Sharia.
Terrorism is a means to this end as are Islamic proselytizing, fund-raising, lobbying, education, etc. As during the Cold War, we are under attack from a hostile political ideology that does not operate in the same moral universe as we do. Broadly speaking, we need to develop a program of containment that will operate on all levels of government policy.
At this point, it seems to me premature to get too specific with respect to policy because the full magnitude of the problem is still so poorly understood. Every Western mainstream statesman, academic, or commentator who opens his mouth on Islam bends over backwards to affirm its peacefulness. Even Western religious leaders, who really ought to know better, continue to demonstrate a depressing lack of understanding and penchant for appeasement.
With respect to Iraq, the main problem there was and is our fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of Islam. There was good reason that someone as brutal as Saddam Hussein rose to the top in that society. In the Islamic world, the most powerful force is not some universal desire for human freedom but the will of Allah and the example of Muhammad. Until we grasp this overarching fact, our policy toward Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world will be fundamentally flawed.
FP: But at the same time, we need to reach out to Muslims who are truly on our side and who truly want to democratize and modernize their religion. What do you think is the best way for us to do that?
Davis: Encouraging democratic or popular forces in the Islamic world is to encourage the resurgence of orthodox Islam with all that entails, namely, Sharia and jihad. Rather than democratizing the Muslim world we should be seeking to secularize it. Contrary to the Western experience, democratization and secularization are not at all synonymous in an Islamic context. To encourage secularization, we will have to deal with undemocratic forces. During the Cold War, we were willing to deal with unsavory characters as long as they forestalled the much worse alternative of Communism. We should take a similar stance with respect to Islam. Secularists in the Muslim world should be encouraged and accommodated, though their success in any Islamic context may necessitate a decidedly undemocratic approach.
I believe that the best way to help nominal Muslims who value peacefulness over Islam is to get them to confront the violent nature of their faith and to reject it. In Islam: What the West Needs to Know, we interview a prominent former Muslim and terrorist who left, and there are many other cases so it is possible.
Obviously, we are not going to convert Muslims en masse to something else, so this is effective at only the individual level. But the unhappy fact is that as long as a Muslim affirms that 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet', he is open to the call of jihad even if he never heeds it. We have seen numerous examples of this in the West, such as the American youths from Lackawana, NY, who were turned into aspirant terrorists by a Koranic study group. We must bear in mind - contrary to the protestations of the ruling class - that Muslims who want to de-politicize Islam, who desire societies organized on secular lines rather than according to Sharia, are heretics within their own faith.
I have spoken with such Muslims and, while they are much to be preferred over the true-believing jihadists, the illogic of their enterprise is readily apparent. Within any Islamic context, their position will always been tenuous at best, which makes them inherently unreliable allies. In the current climate of opinion, I think such 'Muslims' do more harm than good in permitting wishful-thinking Westerners to persist in the myth that Islam can be pacified. To secularize or pacify Islam would require it to jettison two things: Muhammad and the Koran.
This is a harsh reality but one we must face. Islam has existed in its violent form for nearly 1400 years and were are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to undo that basic fact. It may be painful for the idealists, but there will likely never be a time of genuine peace where the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds live in harmonious coexistence. As during the Cold War, an uneasy truce may be the best we can hope for - but that's better than losing.
FP: Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the war and conflict we face?
Davis: Power is a function of capability and will. Right now we have plenty of the former but little of the latter. The jihadists' situation is the opposite, but with time we can expect them to acquire greater capability through the diffusion of military technology and the growing wealth of oil-rich Dar al-Islam. If the West possessed the will, there could be no doubt as to the outcome. But right now we are still trying to fight an antiseptic war against a nameless adversary. Islam has declared war on us while we have declared war on 'terror'. The magnitude of the problem is still totally misunderstood. If the demographic trends of the past three decades continue in Europe, that continent will be majority Muslim in several generations' time. If we think we have problems with the Islamic world today, wait until Dar al-Islam reaches from the Pacific to the English Channel.
In short, I am not optimistic. For the West to win, it will have to rediscover the reasons for winning, the reasons that the West and its heritage are worth preserving. Sadly, there seems to be no one today of public eminence capable or willing to articulate the merits of Western Civilization, which would be the first stage in mounting a defense. So far, Islam's atrocities - the Armenian genocide of the early 20th century, the increasing number of rapes of unveiled women in European cities, even spectacular episodes of terrorism such as 9/11 - have not managed to shake the West out of its complacency.
There is going to have to be a sea change in the West's self-interpretation if it is going to survive. It increasingly seems that, as Europe sinks, it will be left to America to nail the colors to the mast. America is certainly much better off than Europe today for two reasons: first, her Muslim population is much smaller (maybe 5 million despite what some people say); second, she is still largely Christian. It is should be easier for Americans to understand the danger of Islam because they can better empathize with the religious motivation of Muslims. Even her leaders, however, have yet to face up to reality.
FP: Greg Davis, thank you for joining us.
Davis: Thank you.
Posted by Robert at December 6, 2006 3:38 PM
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"Religion of Peace"?
Unless they publicly reject both the violence and acts of islamo-fascism, and more importantly, the practice of Taqqiyah, the notion of "peace", let alone any discussion of such, is irrelevant.
Posted by: jcom972![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 6, 2006 3:59 PM
Awesome interview. I hope we see him being interviewed by CNN or FOX and giving those outstanding responses.
Posted by: Blackarm at December 6, 2006 4:03 PM
from the article:
"Davis: The West is guilty of the ages-old error of projection, of imposing its own ideas, beliefs, and aspirations onto the other guy. When Westerners approach Islam, they imagine that it is a religion like others that they are familiar with - like, say, Christianity. They see Islam as basically another item on the religious menu available in an integrated world. What they fail to understand, however, is that Islam is decidedly outside the Western tradition and therefore Western assumptions are inapt when assessing it."
I just wish our politicians would understand that!
Cheers,
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 6, 2006 4:09 PM
It's great that there are a number of books trying to enlighten the ignorant millions about the violent jihadist nature of traditional Islam (the Islam of Muhammad) but it still amazes me how often the response I get from people, when asked about Islam, is that they know little or nothing about it, even years after 9/11 and other Islamic terrorism. There is a selective ignorance going on that is to me scary. It's like most people suspect but don't really want to know the uncomfortable truth about Islam.
Posted by: FM at December 6, 2006 4:12 PM
"Muslims who want to de-politicize Islam, who desire societies organized on secular lines rather than according to Sharia do more harm than good in permitting wishful-thinking Westerners to persist in the myth that Islam can be pacified. To secularize or pacify Islam would require it to jettison two things: Muhammad and the Koran."
And that is never going to happen.
There will not be any peace in this world as long as islam is alive and kicking.
Ditch islam and ditch the moslems who want to cling on to their medieval cult of death.
at December 6, 2006 4:13 PM
While we've had our share of such projectionism, I see islamists projectionism above and beyond anything we've EVER done, or even conceived...to the point of completely overshadowing the wests infractions to a HUGE degre...but he is right about the wests inability to properly asses the situation of it (hence, my insistence of reading Sun Tzu among others).
Our only fatal error...assuming a potential enemy WON'T, or is unable to, do...anything.
An adage in our military:
"Assumptions are the mother of all F--kups. Thou shalt NEVER assume! 4th commandment of combat".
Posted by: jcom972 at December 6, 2006 4:17 PM
PM wrote:
"It's like most people suspect but don't really want to know the uncomfortable truth about Islam."
You may be right. My mother, who has watched my copy of Obssession and has heard my numerous discourses on the Qur'an and what it says, still clings to the hope that Islam has been hijacked by a group of radicals.
If there is such a thing as "religion of peace psychosis" - which is characterized by loss of contact with the reality of Islamic beliefs, causing deterioration of normal logic and social functioning - she is definately a case study in that disease!
Cheers,
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 6, 2006 4:24 PM
Doc, there's a possibility that it may just be a human thing, too.
In many cases, I've seen where traumatic episodes (see 9/11) cause an overload of sorts on the human psyche, like crashing a computer, they simply shut down and don't want to hear another word (self-denial?)...(then again, some humans still live a "lightswitch" mentality: on/off, anything more doesn't compute) it may simply be too much for some to bear to hear really ominous news...in this case, islamofascism.
at December 6, 2006 4:35 PM
jcom972,
What's it going to take? Another 9/11? (God forbid!)
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at December 6, 2006 4:39 PM
"Awesome interview. I hope we see him being interviewed by CNN or FOX and giving those outstanding responses." --blackarm
Actually he was a guest on Fox today, along with 3 other panelists there to discuss whether Islam itself was the problem. A dicey proposition that! Didn't catch it? Don't worry, it was over in about 3 minutes. Each panelist got about 30 seconds to say something, one comment each, and then it was on to the next BIG story. No wonder Fox is losing viewers in droves now.
at December 6, 2006 4:45 PM
When I first watched the video, Islam: What the West needs to know, i was left with no opinion about Davis or Daly (Incidentally, who was it who was interviewing the 5 experts in the video?) But after reading this interview, I have to say - Davis is nothing short of brilliant, particularly with respect to some of the following observations:
An outstanding interview, and analysis by Mr Davis.There is not a prior justification to assume that peaceful Muslims represent authentic Islam while violent Muslims do not.
There can be no question of the type of government in Islam because Islam is a government, which Allah through Muhammad has ordained to comprehend the entire earth. Once the political nature of Islam and its universal pretensions are grasped, it is not hard to see why Muslims and Muslim societies are so hostile toward the rest of the world.
I have spoken with such Muslims and, while they are much to be preferred over the true-believing jihadists, the illogic of their enterprise is readily apparent. Within any Islamic context, their position will always been tenuous at best, which makes them inherently unreliable allies. In the current climate of opinion, I think such 'Muslims' do more harm than good in permitting wishful-thinking Westerners to persist in the myth that Islam can be pacified. To secularize or pacify Islam would require it to jettison two things: Muhammad and the Koran.
Power is a function of capability and will. Right now we have plenty of the former but little of the latter. The jihadists' situation is the opposite, but with time we can expect them to acquire greater capability through the diffusion of military technology and the growing wealth of oil-rich Dar al-Islam. If the West possessed the will, there could be no doubt as to the outcome. But right now we are still trying to fight an antiseptic war against a nameless adversary. Islam has declared war on us while we have declared war on 'terror'. The magnitude of the problem is still totally misunderstood. If the demographic trends of the past three decades continue in Europe, that continent will be majority Muslim in several generations' time. If we think we have problems with the Islamic world today, wait until Dar al-Islam reaches from the Pacific to the English Channel.
at December 6, 2006 4:46 PM
"Davis: Power is a function of capability and will. Right now we have plenty of the former but little of the latter. The jihadists' situation is the opposite, but with time we can expect them to acquire greater capability through the diffusion of military technology and the growing wealth of oil-rich Dar al-Islam."
If we (freedom-loving Western Civilizationists in North America and Europe) would just develop the will of our enemies, we'd just seize every acre of oilfields in the ME, and that would be that. Our superiority in regards to technology and ideologies of freedom and liberty would prevail, and the Muslim world would just have to deal with it.
That seems to me to be the ONLY way to deal with universal Islam. We have to develop the will to employ ALL of our technological and military might to defeat ALL of it (the combined nations of the Muslim Middle East, Iran, Afghanistan (and the rest of the 'stans), Indonesia, and every other Muslim-controlled nation on the face of the Earth.
Doing this will require a lot of brutality and slaughter, but several million Muslims are a very small cost to pay for the preservation of Western Civilization. Its loss dooms all of humanity.
Unfortunately, we (freedom-loving Western Civilizationists in North America and Europe) seem content to bow to the inferior barbaric hordes, give in to them, and hand Western Civilization to them on a silver platter.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 5:03 PM
I saw him on FOx , They asked him one question and tehn couldnt get rid of him fast enough.
He kicked over the milk bucket .All the Pundents could disagree with him more .It was great.
at December 6, 2006 5:10 PM
Islam is a religion stuck in this world and with this world it will be consumed.
Posted by: callmeinfidel at December 6, 2006 5:29 PM
"Davis: Power is a function of capability and will".
Power without will is utterly useless.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 6, 2006 5:31 PM
Great interview. How different are they? Well...They read from right to left and back to front.
Posted by: Lowtec at December 6, 2006 5:50 PM
Thank you for publishing the above brilliant and succinct article by Gregory Davis. Copies of Mr Davis's words need to be read by every non-Muslim leader, member of government, cleric, police force, every member of every military and defence force of the non-Muslim world. Plus every non-Muslim able to read it in the non-Muslim world. I particularly agree with Mr Davis's analysis of the folly of declaring a 'war on terror' following 9/11 by equating such a concept with a 'war on sneak attacks' following Pearl Harbor.
Posted by: moris2 at December 6, 2006 5:53 PM
Unfortunately, we (freedom-loving Western Civilizationists in North America and Europe) seem content to bow to the inferior barbaric hordes, give in to them, and hand Western Civilization to them on a silver platter. Posted by: yohannbiimuPosted by: NarizNot this American Firster leftist liberal..seal the borders and that includes corporations who have declared war on the middle class by outsourcing, and setting up Hq's in the Caymans.(Traitorous scum all, those globalists).
Sorry to hear about your mum Bulldog, but she sounds like a typical charismatic evangelical Bushbot..
Bush said it so it must be true.I lament that the same morons who put that moron in office will put another moron in office.
And oh yeh Pelosi, well according to the Jewish Telegraph Agency Her support for Israel is Heartfelt.
"There are those who contend that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is all about Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza," Pelosi said as she rallied AIPAC loyalists. "This is absolute nonsense. In truth, the history of the conflict is not over occupation, and never has been: it is over the fundamental right of Israel to exist."Seems that the Leftcoast liberals do have it right.
at December 6, 2006 5:59 PM
Nariz sez:
"I lament that the same morons who put that moron ("W") in office will put another moron in office."
As though the alternative was in any way intelligent. Kerry was the same sort of "consensis building" dimwit that Bush is, and worse. If Bush is a moron, then Kerry is absolutely braindead. His idea of foreign policy was to let the United Nations handle everything.
I'd love to hear about who you think would be the perfect presidential candidate.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 6:13 PM
"And oh yeh Pelosi, well according to the Jewish Telegraph Agency Her support for Israel is Heartfelt."
OOOOH MYYYYY GAWWWD!!! BUT YOU'RE NAIVE! Get me a barfbag!
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 6:14 PM
Pelosi's support for the Islamo-fascists is ALSO "heartfelt."
News Releases
Thursday, July 15, 2004
Pelosi, Democratic Leaders Hold Roundtable Discussion with Muslim American Leaders
http://democraticleader.house.gov
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), Congressman John
D. Dingell (D-MI), Congressman John Conyers (D-MI), Congressman Charles
Rangel (D-NY), and other Congressional Democrats were joined yesterday by
national leaders of the Muslim American community in a roundtable
discussion on issues of mutual concern to Democrats and Muslim Americans.
The discussion centered on working together to defend civil rights and to
restore civil liberties.
"This discussion is only the first in an ongoing dialogue between
Congressional Democrats and Muslim Americans," Pelosi said. "We share a
fundamental principle - the belief that diversity is the backbone of our
communities. Generations of Muslims have made positive contributions in
every aspect of American life. We must now work even more closely to
navigate through the challenges we face as a nation."
"Since September 11th, many Muslim Americans have been subjected to
searches at airports and other locations based upon their religion and
national origin, without any credible information linking individuals to
criminal conduct," Pelosi continued. "Racial and religious profiling is
fundamentally un-American and we must make it illegal.
"When the Patriot Act was enacted, it was intended to be accompanied by
strong Congressional oversight to prevent abuses of our civil liberties.
That oversight has not occurred, particularly with the mass detention
campaign ordered by Attorney General Ashcroft, which to date has led to
more than 5,000 foreign nationals being detained since September
11th. Moreover, individuals' assets have been frozen on the basis of
secret evidence that they have no opportunity to confront or rebut, and
such processes are a fundamental denial of due process. We must correct the
Patriot Act to prevent abuses of our civil liberties."
Working with Conyers, the Ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary
Committee, Democrats have introduced legislation to end racial profiling,
limit the reach of the Patriot Act, and make immigration safe and
accessible. Leader Pelosi is a proud cosponsor of the End Racial Profiling
Act, the Security and Freedom Ensured Act (SAFE), and the Safe, Orderly,
and Legal Visas Enforcement Act (SOLVE).
"These measures are long overdue, and we call on the Republican leadership
in Congress to bring them to a vote now," Pelosi said. "As we protect and
defend the American people, we must protect and defend the Constitution and
the civil rights that define our democracy. Ours is a country of great
diversity and we must stand together as one America."
The following Democrats also participated in the discussion: former
Democratic Whip David Bonior (D-MI), Congressman Gregory Meeks (D-NY), and
Congressman Nick Joe Rahall (D-WV).
at December 6, 2006 6:28 PM
My point is that whatever Pelosi says to the Jewish Telegraph Agency or to CAIR will reflect whatever it is that she thinks that they want to hear. The woman stands for NOTHING.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 6:33 PM
"Sorry to hear about your mum Bulldog, but she sounds like a typical charismatic evangelical Bushbot.."
Nice, coming from a lefty, God-hating Pelosibot. Nariz, you are everything that you hate about people on the right. Everything you say that you hate about us, you love about yourself and the people on the left. I can't figure you out.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 6:38 PM
"We must bear in mind - contrary to the protestations of the ruling class - that Muslims who want to de-politicize Islam, who desire societies organized on secular lines rather than according to Sharia, are heretics within their own faith.
I have spoken with such Muslims and, while they are much to be preferred over the true-believing jihadists, the illogic of their enterprise is readily apparent. Within any Islamic context, their position will always been tenuous at best, which makes them inherently unreliable allies."
All the more reason why we Christian fundamentalists need to be sure that the Gospel of Christ is a door through which Muslims (and anyone else) are invited to enter; not a club held over their heads. Perhaps one reason why there are Afghan Abdurrahmans in this world is because the illogic of which Davis and Glazov speak is becoming more and more apparent to all.
at December 6, 2006 6:40 PM
Mr. Davis should be commended for all of his efforts to expound the truth about Islam and Muhammad.
This interview is a superb example of Mr. Davis' forthrightness.
He is absolutely correct when he discusses the issue of peaceful Muslims.
They are considered hypocrites and heretics by fundamental Muslims. Their lives and well-being are threatened in all Islamic countries and Islamic communities outside of the Ummah.
Islamic reform, therefore, is impossible. In order to reform Islam, the core tenets of Islamic scripture - including jihad - would have to be altered or rejected. This is impossible if one accept's that the Qur'an is Allah's immutable word revealed to the prophet Muhammad.
Molding Islam into whatever one wants it to be is not permissible in Islam.
What needs to be do is to educate Muslims about Islamic scripture and their prophet, Muhammad. Only by knowing the truth about Islam and Muhammad can Muslims have a chance of being liberated from the yoke of Islam. Afterall, Muslims constitute the greatest number of victims of Islam.
at December 6, 2006 6:51 PM
Well, I think the Muslim interest groups, such as CAIR, realize that there aren't enough Muslims in the US. I would expect that, as a result, we will see attempts with the next Congress to increase immigration from Muslim countries.
The US is too big, too fertile, and too Christian to conquer as is happening in Europe, so I think the strategy will be to carve out mini-Sharia entities in Michigan, Minnesota, Maine and other states which are experiencing relative "white" population decline. Eventually, whites will flee these places.
I would also expect Muslims in the North to join foreces with irridentist hispanics in the Southwest. The idea would be to create centripetal forces which would tear the US into smaller, more manageable pieces.
A second strategy which Muslim groups might employ would be to accelerate the Dawa, or proselytization. I think black and hispanic communities are particularly vulnerable. Except to see subtle work on this in the schools, with a special emphasis in the high schools. This will all be camoulflaged as multicultural instruction, understanding, etc (as we have seen in California and Oregon already).
Posted by: sonomaca at December 6, 2006 6:58 PM
"Davis: The West is guilty of the ages-old error of projection, of imposing its own ideas, beliefs, and aspirations onto the other guy. When Westerners approach Islam, they imagine that it is a religion like others that they are familiar with - like, say, Christianity. They see Islam as basically another item on the religious menu available in an integrated world. What they fail to understand, however, is that Islam is decidedly outside the Western tradition and therefore Western assumptions are inapt when assessing it. - from article above
This is the most perfect description of where MY thinking was before I accidently stumbled into Jihad Watch 4 months ago.
What a lucky happenstance!!
What an awakening!
at December 6, 2006 7:24 PM
"The US is too big, too fertile, and too Christian to conquer as is happening in Europe..."
Being "too Christian" is a constant lament by many in this country, not just the Islamist horde. It's usually a term that comes before or after "stupid," "ignorant," "barefoot," and "anti-abortionists."
I have no problem with having a secular society; however, how can it survive when everything deemed "too Christian" is banned from sight by those who are "offended." Meanwhile, the Islamists enter the void with their "cultural education," and nobody says a peep.
The enemies of our way of life and Western Civilization in general believe that we're "too Christian," and will do everything possible to drive every last remnent of it underground.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 7:29 PM
A 'Religion of Peace' on the verge of a 'Renaissance' too. According to the UN, that is:
UN: Women’s Plight Holds Back Arab ‘Renaissance’
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at December 6, 2006 8:15 PM
The more I read about what Islam really is, and how much a threat to humanity it is, the more I'm convinced that every single aspect of our war against "terror" is 100% wrong. I guess you can say that I've hoped against all hope that something about it could be a holding action against future terror, and that possibly "democracy" could actually take place in Iraq, but Gregory Davis has finally convinced me (here and in the first pages of his book) that any hope of creating a western-type of representative, democratized government is wasted effort.
I guess the question must be, what do we do now that it is so evident that we have done everything wrong? "Cutting and running" cannot be an alternative, although that seems to be the dominant opinion of those who think that we have screwed everything up. "Staying the course" obviously is a bad idea, simply because it's insane to keep trying to get a different result by doing the same thing over and over again.
I suppose that we can just pour a few hundred thousand more troops into the country, completely occupy it, close its borders completely, and eventually (after all "insurgent activities" have been "halted") declare Iraq a haven for freedom and liberty for all (essentially, declare that Iraq is an infidel-conqured land, and that Islamic religious and political "principles" no longer apply). I wonder how long THAT would take?
Regardless of what happens, I seriously doubt that anyone has the will to use the means to fix the problem. There's a problem that needs to be fixed, but I just do not hear anyone who would have the means to do anything about it saying anything that would do anything other than make it much worse. Bush and his cronies refuse to even admit that there's a problem with their misguided "war on terror," and his political enemies refuse to see that there is an Islamic threat at all.
It seems like we're damned if one way or another...
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 8:49 PM
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy"
-George Washington
at December 6, 2006 8:54 PM
The Fox video can be viewed here:
http://www.foxnews.com/livedesk/index.html
I had to turn off my firewall to view it.
Three of these people are 'terrorism experts'.
There's a reason we don't hear from moderate Muslims. These folks just can't figure out why.
Any wonder the West is so ignorant about Islam?
Posted by: PRCS at December 6, 2006 9:10 PM
Excellent Quote Canadian!
at December 6, 2006 9:13 PM
... we need to develop a program of containment that will operate on all levels of government policy. At this point, it seems to me premature to get too specific with respect to policy because the full magnitude of the problem is still so poorly understood...
It would only take a few months to educate the American public on the grave threat, with a government funded education blitz. On the news, from the podium, in ads, in the Congress, in the courtroom, in federally mandatory curriculum requirements --- all of it strictly based on Islamic scripture and Islamic sources.
The blitz would be a shock and would throw the nation, and the world, into paroxsyms of finger pointing. It would be a painful, dangerous, all-or-nothing strategy.
But, what it'd do is let the cat out of the bang... finally.
The most important element of the blitz would be that it'd put everybody in danger of the 6th Pillar of Islam all at once, nearly instantly.
* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *
Islam's greatest strength is its all-fronts, day-by-day incrementalism, and the self-censorship it enforces for fear of the 6th Pillar.
Our only hope is the opposite of that strategy: all-at-once reductionism.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 6, 2006 9:16 PM
"It would only take a few months to educate the American public on the grave threat, with a government funded education blitz. On the news, from the podium, in ads, in the Congress, in the courtroom, in federally mandatory curriculum requirements --- all of it strictly based on Islamic scripture and Islamic sources.
The blitz would be a shock and would throw the nation, and the world, into paroxsyms of finger pointing. It would be a painful, dangerous, all-or-nothing strategy."
This was done nationally when we mobilized for war against Germany in 1917-18 and the Axis Powers in 1941-45. There was no debate about who the enemy was, or how the need existed for everyone to pull together in order to defeat it. Every media that existed in the US continually educated (propagated even) the American people about who the threat against them was, and what had to be done in order to stop them. VICTORY was the only option. Defeat meant slavery and death.
Too few people exist who even believe that a deadly threat to humanity exists (since Islam is at its heart inhuman and debased), so what hope is there that any sort of "education blitz" can ever happen, let alone be successful? The only "education blitz" happening today (in our public schools and state-funded universities) is that the United States was founded by morally bankrupt men, built upon the backs of slavery and repression, and that its downfall will be the best thing to ever happen for humanity.
Everything going on is bass-ackwards.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 9:35 PM
This article verifies what Steyn, Phillips, Spencer, Emerson and others have been trying ot alert the world to for years. How sad for us all if they end up as latter day Cassandras.
What will it take to wake up this nation to the true nature of Islam? Several European countries are headed toward civil war within a generation (don't for a moment think the right wing in France--and it will grow as Muslims continue to create discord--is going to sit still for sharia law), and some of those countries may ultimately be lost to Islam.
But what will it take for the U.S.? A nuclear attack by terrorists on a major American city with hundreds of thousands, even millions, dead? Will we then awake to the threat that confronts us and call Islam what it is--not a religion of peace, but a religion of intolerance, hatred and death.
Please search history for a more deplorable ideology than Islamism. Think about it: not even the Nazis strapped bombs to their own children.
Posted by: tolivr at December 6, 2006 9:39 PM
BRAVO tolivr! I couldn't have said it better! I agree with you completely!
People have to realize the danger before it's too late. We are at the same time allowing a rabid animal free reign in our house, and denying that it's rabid. The dog MUST BE PUT DOWN!
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 9:45 PM
Bulldog:
Sad to say, yes. Too many of my countryem suffer terribly short-term memories...much like whatI call the "nintendo-brains" (if it's not over by dinnertime, they lose interest)...and I lay odds it will exceed 9/11 by quite a bit.
No, I don't relish such a thought...but it's what I see coming if we don't wise up to these "scizo-pathic" maniacs and their veiled (pun) delusionary goal of world conquest, both from withIN, as well as without.
I have no doubts as to our eventual success at defeating this menace to humanity...the question is the cost in death toll.
Acting sooner rather than later is highly advisable, and is a no-brainer.
I'm not holding my breath on this one.
Posted by: jcom972 at December 6, 2006 10:03 PM
Check out the comments sections for Maurice, surely a moderate if nothing else. In a rebuttal to a rebuttal he denies islam is violent with the following:
"If the Prophet Muhammad was alive today, he would have those people who are cutting off innocent peoples heads, beheaded themselves. He stood for Justice more than any other person who ever lived. He said he would cut off his own daughters' hand if he caught her stealing. This was to ensure there would never be any favoritism in Islam. Those who are guilty are punished no matter who they are."
Yeah, just like Jesus and the Buddha and Arjun too, right? Sheesh, its getting so re-gd-diculous this whole conversation.
Posted by: tokyobk at December 6, 2006 10:11 PM
I forgot to mention the Sanhedrin, the Jewish court, for whom one hanging a generation was considered bloody.
Posted by: tokyobk at December 6, 2006 10:12 PM
" He stood for Justice more than any other person who ever lived. He said he would cut off his own daughters' hand if he caught her stealing "
This is exactly the Point! . Compassion? Tolerance? Family Values? LOL
yup it's all there.
Not to mention that that statement sums Islam up pretty well. A great many Muslims would choose their Religion before Family ( See Honor Killings) Suggesting that you would cut your own Daughters hand off , does not provide a solution , or Balance , It signifies the # 1 Issue with Islam ....VIOLENCE!.
Bravo Muhammad.
Posted by: Concerned Canadian at December 6, 2006 10:17 PM
"He said he (Mohammad) would cut off his own daughters' hand if he caught her stealing."
Naturally, whenever Mohammad stole anything, that was followed by slaughtering the owner of said posession. "He was an 'infidel' you know..."
"Those who are guilty are punished no matter who they are."
The question is, what's constituted as an act that would make one "guilty?" Obviously an Islamist who speaks before "unbelievers" will say anything necessary in order to pull the proverbial wool over our eyes.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at December 6, 2006 10:20 PM
Its time we moved to phase two of understanding which is to rehaul the schools. I welcome this book but for anyone to whom its news, they are part of the lost generation.
Posted by: tokyobk at December 6, 2006 10:23 PM
Bingo, yohann'...
...the very essence of Taqqiyah I emphasised on.
Just remember, as long as they invoke allah, or islam, etc, anything goes...and I do mean ANYTHING.
at December 6, 2006 10:24 PM
The 700 Jewish Banu Kurayza were "guilty" and so beheaded into deep trenches dug by the Prophet`s supervision.
Think about the insanity of having to have a conversation as to whether Islam is violent or not! Future generations will laugh at us.
Posted by: tokyobk at December 6, 2006 10:40 PM
I suppose when according to his earliest, and devoutly Muslim, biographer, Mohammud lit a fire on a prisoners chest to get him to tell where a treasure was buried, that was just an example of the deeds of the man "who stood for justice more than any on earth," More than Jesus and Moses for sure.
Posted by: tokyobk at December 6, 2006 10:44 PM
They will only laugh at those who actually believed the Religion was " Hijacked " .
Posted by: Concerned Canadian
at December 6, 2006 10:44 PM
THE REST OF THE AFFAIR OF KHAYBAR
Kinana b. al-Rabi`, who had the custody of the treasure of B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (T. was brought) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-`Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has," so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume), Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 515.)
Posted by: tokyobk at December 6, 2006 10:45 PM
I think an essential point is being forgotten in this otherwise very Islamosavvy article: and that is Islam lacks ANY respect for human life at all and in fact constitutes institutionalized murder and conspiracy to commit murders. In virtually every non-Islamic society and country human life is protected to some degrees by laws protecting their citizenry from murder. BUT---Islam WILL commit murder (in fact it justifies murder through its teachings in the Kuran and practices murder "religiously") to get whatever it aspires to achieve at the moment. I think understanding THIS IS THE KEY TO WINNING THE WAR AGAINST ISLAM!!!!!!!
The western democracies are founded on the princple that human life and liberty are worth protecting and this is in addition upheld by Judeo-Christianism doctrines (which explains why they are under attack by Islamic and Commnunist-bloc countries). And I am willing to bet money that most people in the world would by far prefer to live in a society where their lives and freedom are important than one where they are not (and forcibly held subordinate to ideologies). Look at all the millions of people immigrating from Third World hellholes to the western democracies, now what does this tell us??
In fact RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE IS THE WESTERN WORLD'S HIDDEN STRENGTH. And we must make the most of that. And I think acknowledgement of this fact will enable the west to make a victory over Islam's ideological war on the west inevitable.
Any civilization that allows Islam in it is signing its own death warrant. Any civilization that forgets that Islam is out to destroy everything that is non-Islamic is signing its own death warrant. And any civilization that stops looking for signs of Islamic permeation into its own institutions is also signing its own death warrant. These are the ways Islam maneuvers non-Islamic societies into positions wherein they may be destroyed and Islamized.
Islam is in this view incompatible with anything else that exists on earth and ever has. The closest thing Islam would be compatible with are the human sacrifice cults of Mexico, Central America, and Peru and farther back Babylon and the Mespotamian region. The Celts may also have practiced human sacrifice and there are reports of other areas such as islands in Indonesia having practiced human sacrifice.
It is up to the non-Islamic nations to rid the world Islam which is almost certainly a part of the Mesopotamian death cults that has managed to live on into this age.
Getting rid the practice of human sacrifice traditions is never easy, fun, or without carnage. But the world is always better off after they have been removed.
This will prove true of Islam. If only Europeans understood that, they would not have allowed themselves to be played for the fools that they have been tricked into becoming.
Survival of the fittest: May it NOT be Islam!
And deliver us all from Islam!!!!!
at December 6, 2006 11:12 PM
Gregory Davis' Fox interview today.
http://www.foxnews.com/livedesk/index.html
You may have to turn off your firewall, temporarily.
Worth a view.
Posted by: PRCS at December 6, 2006 11:47 PM
I have read Dr. Davis' book several times, and feel that it is one of the best single-volume introductions to Islamosavvy currently available. However, I found one key reference cited in this book to be in need of further explanation. On page 90 of Religion of Peace? Islam's War Against the World the following paragraph from page 101 of Some to Mecca Turn to Pray by Mervyn Hiskett is cited to explain the concept of Taqiyya:
{A} problem concerning law and order {with respect to Muslims in dar al-harb} arises from an ancient Islamic legal principle -- that of TAQIYYA, a word the root meaning of which is "to remain faithful" but which in effect means "dissimulation". It has full Koranic authority (92:17 and 49:13) and allows the Muslim to conform outwardly to the requirements of unislamic or non-Islamic government, while inwardly "remaining faithful" to whatever he conceives to be proper Islam, while waiting for the tide to turn.
I have checked out the two Koranic verses (92:17 and 49:13), referenced above, in my copy of Al Hilali and Khan's translation of the Koran, and do not understand exactly how those verses serve as a doctrinal basis for Taqiyya.
I would appreciate any clarification which Dr. Davis, or some other person more knowledgeable than I could provide, because the canonical justification for Taqiyya is a very key and very controversial issue. Unfortunately, my own expertise in Koranic exegesis is still pretty rudimentary.
Posted by: urbanIIredux at December 7, 2006 12:28 AM
religion at peace yet right all we have to do is look at what is going on in Somalia and a threat to behead anyone not pray the moon God Allah five times a day. Personally I think what it take to wake the USA Canada and Great Britain up to the danger that Islam presents will be if bin Laden and Al Qaeda manage to pull off a threatened American Hiroshima A-bomb attack. Unfortunately with all liberals we have in charge right now it's going to take the deaths of millions to wake them up unfortunately the fear of further attacks may well frighten these human secularists into surrendering to Islam.
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at December 7, 2006 3:19 AM
'The West is guilty of the ages-old error of projection, of imposing its own ideas, beliefs, and aspirations onto the other guy'
Wow this guy really gets it!
Only yesterday I posted about this huge problem.
the new liberals project their own cognitive egocentrism on islamists in the belief that all the western ideas they consider to be "good" must be applicable to Islam (tolerance, human rights,good faith etc).
This is based on their beliefs that all human beings are basically homogenous and therefore if Muslims do not sometimes exhibit these fine qualities it must somehow be our fault and nothing to do with their deep faith in their religion.
But Islamists do exactly the same- they project their own cognitive egocentrism, which is based on supremacy and domination.
So when westerners do not bow to their threats and intimidations, they reason that the west is intent on dominating and conquering them.
Each side projects its own egocentrism on the other.
But the west comes off the worst for it because of the entrenched liberal beliefs which have taken over and are based on guilt and shame over western society's perceived shameful history of imperialism and colonisation.
Sixty years ago we would have been much better equiped to defend ourselves
Whereas the Islamists are proud of their conquests and feel and have no need to feel shame for the outrages they have committed on the infidel civilisations they have conquered and regurgicated as islamist societies.
at December 7, 2006 4:56 AM
The answers to defeating the onslaught of Islam on western society lie not within Islam but within ourselves.
Unless we are able to rediscover a deep pride in our society and our moral standards,A pride as deep at least as the islamists have of their own religion, we will never be able to raise a hand let alone a weapon to defend ourselves.
George Bush in his inept way has tried to do this and has been shouted down by the armies of media, Academic institutions and demopaths who have brought about the destruction of our belief in ourselves.
we badly need to set about restoring it and cleaning our own augean stables .
at December 7, 2006 5:18 AM
Hasn't fox a new share holder??? a Saudi Prince... he keeps the lid on things I would say,, he skited taht he had in one article a while ago...
There has been 5,562,560 visitors to this site since May 30, 2006, surely this shows that people are wondering why, thus are looking... perhaps this is the beginning of the west waking up... if we dont soon we will all have to submit or die.. are there any governments who are waking up...??? please someone tell me ...
at December 7, 2006 7:10 AM
We can all talk big talk here and I agreee with most of you, but where does all this get us, it is like going over and over a game that we have just lost, or talking over and over about up coming election possible results, it gets us no where... what on earth can we do about it.. do we have any countries who are waking up...??? These guys have been at it trying to wake everyone up for years, but the problem seems to be getting worse, we are obviously not doing any good on here, except helping each other feel better or worse.. any suggestions out there... I know when the left wing government gets in in Australia they will open the flood gates again..
If we stopped buying oil I feel it could turn things a bit...
Anybody out there think that we have a chance???
at December 7, 2006 7:45 AM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53269
Posted by: Borg at December 7, 2006 8:28 AM
Abu Abdullah said following a withdrawal from Iraq, the U.S. will be defeated on its own soil.
"America must understand that with anti-American governments in Latin America and with Islam growing and reinforcing, including in the U.S. itself, the next step would be a total defeat on their (American) land, not a relative one like they are facing in Iraq," he said.
Posted by: Borg at December 7, 2006 8:33 AM
I somehow wonder from all that I have read of Islam, if when the bible writes about the dragon if the dragon that it is talking is perhaps Islam ???...
When the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman{Israel} which brought forth the man child{jesus}The Muslims absolutly, unbelievable hatred of Israel is beyond all reason...
And while, the world is eagerly awaiting and believing for the peaceful co-existence of the Jewish and the Palestinian people, the Imams, the religious authorities of the Palestinian people, with the full support and approval of the political leadership are ceaselessly beating the drums of “the final war,” the final slaughter of the Jews.
Just a thought...
at December 7, 2006 8:58 AM
Gaye:
"Anybody out there think that we have a chance???:
I have the same concern as you. It's obvious we are powerless as individuals alone.
As we see the destruction in the middle east, the usurping of western culture spreading to other continents now, yes NOW, Muslims now being sworn into high office in the US on the Koran and the west letting all of it go, we are all watching from the sidelines, powerless. Our peoples have no stomach for dealing with the problem. It is most fustrating. Most of the population and leaders don't see the growing menace. Those that do, are afraid to give in to the facts, in fear of not portraying themselves as PC. They are living in a bubble. They will cause our demise and all of here on this site knows that.
And for example, if Iraq, Afghanistan or Lebanon fails, the Liberals/PCs have no idea how exponentially empowered the jihadists will be.
Eventually, our peoples will get the stomach to do something about it, but by then it will be far far too late.
Life as we knew it, even 2 years ago, is not the same. The disease marches on.
What a shame. And yes, good question, what can one do?
Posted by: sounder at December 7, 2006 9:23 AM
Yes Americaningermany, I agree with you, but he will probably have an army and after reading how communism started off I feel it wouldnt take much for the enemy to have others to help him...
Oh by the way, rememeber that there was world wide riots about a person putting a Quran down the toilet, there was about 16 people died in these riots...violence broke out throughtout the world yet although the odd cleric talks about muslims must do something about what terrorists are doing we still never see any outrage against anything that muslims do against the world, we never see anything from Muslims aganst the non stop world wide violence. makes you wonder eh...
Posted by: Gaye at December 7, 2006 9:24 AM
Thanks you guys, one can only hope that the last days of the bible is true, and what the bible says is soon. I used to be an athiest but after reading prophecy and seeing what is going on today, I can only say that it must be true, it is just that although there are many fantastic religious people out there doing some incrediable things for the world, there are also so many weid religious people that it can really put you off... but the essence of the bible is not with these weidos it is in what is written and unlike Islam, if all humanity followed what the bible says and its leader, there would be no wars, even if they only followed the essence and not God of what is written there would be no wars..
Posted by: Gaye at December 7, 2006 9:34 AM
Dr. Davis nailed it!
Of course Islam is a governmental system interwoven with sharia law and violence toward infidels.
Where we fell down as a nation is we hired(elected) someone to run things for America without the intelligence or testicular development to carry out the desires of the people, especially our foreign policy.
What G.W. needs to do is lay down the law. He needs to tell the Muslims that we are a sovereign nation and have no intention of allowing another government to establish itself within our borders. This applies to those slipping into the country from the south as well.
England and France have allowed a foreign government to establish no-go zones in their cities, de facto ceding sovereignty to others.
As long as we treat Islam as just a religion, we are doomed to a terrible future.
It is high time we reclaimed America as the sovereign nation we are.
at December 7, 2006 12:59 PM
I somehow wonder from all that I have read of Islam, if when the bible writes about the dragon if the dragon that it is talking is perhaps Islam ???...
When the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman{Israel} which brought forth the man child{jesus}The Muslims absolutly, unbelievable hatred of Israel is beyond all reason...
And while, the world is eagerly awaiting and believing for the peaceful co-existence of the Jewish and the Palestinian people, the Imams, the religious authorities of the Palestinian people, with the full support and approval of the political leadership are ceaselessly beating the drums of “the final war,” the final slaughter of the Jews.
Just a thought...
Posted by: Gaye at December 7, 2006 08:58 AM
>>> After reading your post Gaye, i remembered reading this from revelationa i was so struck i added a few of my own words that seemd to fit perfectly!
This is a revelation from Jesus given to his diciple John of the final days of satans system on earth. this vision was given to John after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus .
revelation, {12}13, Now when the great dragon( satan) saw that it was hurled down to earth, it persecuted the woman(Israel) that gave birth to the male child(Jesus) 14.} But the two wings of the great eagle(america) were given the woman, that she may fly into the wilderness,"to her place"; there is where she is fed for a time, a times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.
{15},And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth( lies, deciet, and blasphemy,) after the woman to cause her to be drowned by the river(of lies, deciet and blasphemy).{16},But the earth came to the womans help,and swallowed up the river that the dragon ( satan) disgorged from its mouth.{17},And the dragon( satan) grew wrathful at the woman,and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed( christians) who observe the comandments of god and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus The Christ.
{13}, And it stood still upon the sands of the sea.
And i saw a wild beast(islam) asending out of the sea,with ten horns and seven heads,and upon its horns 10 diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names( allah has 99 blasphemous names)
2} now the wild beast that i saw was like a leapord,but its feet were those of a bear and its mouth was a lions mouth. And the dragon(satan) gave to the beast(islam) its power, its throne and great authority.3},And i saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death,but its death stroke got healed,and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration(the ottoman empire??)4} And they worshipped the dragon(satan) because it gave the authority to the wild beast(islam) and they worship the wild beast with the words;"who is like the wild beast and who can do battle with it?" ( these are the words of islam today, they state matter of factly "no one can defeat islam!!" and "islam will rule the earth!!")
5}, And a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies was given it,and authority to act 42 months was given it.6} and it opened its mouth in blasphemies against god, to blaspheme his name and his residence and even those who Are residing in heaven.( muslims claim Jesus was a muslim and worshipped this false pagan moon god allah)7}, And there was granted to it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them and authority was given it over every tribe, people, tongue and nation.
8},And all those who dwell on the eath will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the lamb(Jesus)who was slaughtered from the founding of the world.
16},And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great,the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or their foreheads.( this mark is visible on muslims foreheads where they bang their heads on the ground in prayer, screaming allahu akbar and the callouses on their hands from prostating to the false pagan god allah)
17}, And that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having either the mark,the name of the wild beast,or the number of its name.( muslims have practiced this from the days of muhammad ,its called dhimmitude)18}, Here is where wisdom comes in; let the one who has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast(islam) for it is a mans number and its number is six hundred and sixty six.
I write this in hopes it will awaken you to the dangers we face today and to show you who the enemy of God and Jesus and all those who worship God and follow the instructions of his beloved son Jesus is.
Jesus informed us that you will know the tree by its fruits. And he has warned us in the verses of revelation ive quoted above that satan will have an "organization"(the wild beast) on earth in the final days of satans system on this earth. The agenda of this organization is to destroy israel, attack and slaugher Jews and Christians who refuse to submit to "the god"(allah) of the wild beast(islam).
There is such an organization on Gods earth today whose agenda is exactly that of the wild beast and that is "islam", there are its fruits, then know its tree. The tree is satan, its beast is islam and its fruits is to destroy Israel, attack and slaughter jews and christians who refuse to submit to "the god"(allah) of islam (the beast)
In the 18th verse of the 12th chapter of revelation jesus said ,"let he who has" intelligence "calculate the number of the beast". I dont claim to be the most intelligent man on earth but with the clues Jesus gave its quite easy to calculate.
The number is a mans number, and all renown men of history are remembered by the date of their death. muhammad died exactly 666 years after jesus was born.You do the calculation
33bc--0--632ce
33-- 1--632
34 + 632 =666 years
The number of the man matchs the the number of the wild beast
the number of the wild beast along with the agenda of the wild beast points clearly to islam as the organization raised up by satan in the final days of satans system on earth today!
Now im not saying all muslims are evil and wicked, but i am saying all muslims are decieved by satan into believing they are worshipping the god of abraham, and they were misled by one of the greatest liars of all men ,muhammad!
at December 8, 2006 1:14 AM
ok then, one other thing i feel compelled to post here. the muslim lie that allah is the same god as that of the God of the Christians and Jews, the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses and Jesus!
So many Christians and their religious leaders accept this, Although the Jews no better!
The qu'ran itself in the words of islams satanic diety allah states this is a lie.
>>>SURAH 9-29,,Fight those people of the Book (Jews and Christians) """WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH"""
at December 8, 2006 1:37 AM
Wow thndrbang, that is interesting. I never knew that about Mohammad and 666...
I used to not be interested in the Bible, I felt that it was a lot of rot and only for old ladies, people who were not quite all there and children to keep them behaving themselves, then I started reading books on bible prophecy and was blown away about how accurately the words were spoken, eg, that Jesus would be sold for 30 peices of silver... there is three peices of prophecy in that, they used the word sold, 30 peices, and silver. Most other prophets of other sorts are not that accurate, they would have said that he was sole to some men, which had more chances of fiting many people. I could see that there were so many prophecies happening now in our time, and that I couldnt sit on the fence any more... it was either true or it was a lie... and so I made a decision that no matter how stupid some of it sounded that Jesus was whom he said he was...If everyone followed the Ten Commandments regardless of whether they believed in God or not, we would have a peaceful world.
at December 8, 2006 7:24 AM
thanks thndrban, sounder and americaningermany, I needed that encouragement, you lot are wonderful.. surely all the media and governments in the world cant be that stupid to not wake up with the world being full on non stop muslim violence.
Posted by: Gaye at December 8, 2006 7:41 AM
Gaye,
I can say that the underlying root concerns expressed on this website by many posters are because, as you fear in your last post:
"surely all the media and governments in the world cant be that stupid to not wake up with the world being full on non stop muslim violence."
Yep, its true, they are that stupid (wilfully stupid). They are so clouded by PC dhimmitude, 'they can't see the forest for the trees"..... as the old saying goes.
They are in denial!
at December 8, 2006 12:25 PM
sounder, thankyou for your reply, and the horrific thing is that those who do know and try to warn others are condemmed, it appears that our own want us dead...
Posted by: Gaye at December 8, 2006 11:42 PM
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