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Tibi says "When you study religion, you do not study texts, you study social facts. A Muslim boy is torching cars and he is thinking he is waging jihad." That is true. But the texts also support the permissibility, and indeed the active good, of waging war against unbelievers. "Germans may regret ignoring 'prophet' in their midst," by Margaret Wente in the Globe and Mail, with thanks to Paul:
BERLIN -- Bassam Tibi is an unabashed alarmist. He is among Germany's foremost political scientists, and an expert on political Islam. And he says that even now -- after 9/11, after Madrid, after 7/7, and all the rest of it -- the European elites don't have a clue what they are up against."Europeans don't know what Islamism is," he argues. "We are talking about a new totalitarianism. And Islamists are establishing themselves in Europe with great success." They thrive, thanks to Europe's tolerance of the intolerable.
Dr. Tibi, a Muslim born in Syria, is persona non grata there.
He's not too popular in Germany either, where he has been accused of inciting Islamophobia. "It is most disturbing to see how writers who try to warn about the totalitarian character of Islamism are defamed as racists," he says. "This wrong-headed political correctness prevents any honest discussion about the subject."
This is not the message you will hear from any Muslim leader. The standard line is that extremism has been exaggerated, the media are to blame, and that the real problem is that Muslims have been unfairly targeted. But long before 9/11, Dr. Tibi began warning Europe had become dangerously vulnerable to radical Islamists. Today, many of these movements have their logistics, as well as their support systems, in Western Europe. In the name of multiculturalism, Muslims were encouraged to build parallel societies. Now, many have no intention of integrating into the mainstream.
It's true, he says, that the radicals are no more than a tiny minority -- between 3 per cent and 5 per cent of the Muslim population, he guesses -- but they are gaining ground. "They control most of the mosques and the welfare institutions, and they are the official speakers for Islam." (Among the most revered is Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, now preaching from Qatar on Al Jazeera, who says Islam justifies suicide bombing.)
In spite of the new lip service being paid to integration, he says, Europe shows little interest in acting to promote it. Part of the problem is that there's no consensus on what it means to be European.
"Some people think there is no such thing as a common identity binding us together," he says....
Dr. Tibi is impatient with the endlessly repeated nostrum that Islam is "a religion of peace." "When you study religion, you do not study texts, you study social facts. A Muslim boy is torching cars and he is thinking he is waging jihad. Religion has nothing to do with terrorism. But you can use it to legitimate terrorism. There is a conflict -- it is social and economic, but it is articulated in religious language." And the quest of converting the entire world to Islam, he insists, is an immutable fixture of the Muslim worldview.
Tiny Minority of Extremists Update:
I asked Dr. Tibi how many of Germany's 3.2 million Muslims share his progressive, secular views. "Maybe a few thousand," he said.
Posted by Robert at December 15, 2006 4:31 PM
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This is the label game that is being played against those of us who are jihad-aware and speak up.
Someone else posted this a few days ago about the intellectual cowardice copout that people abuse in the form of the "bigot" label. Thank you whoever posted this previously and Mr. Koukl (author) :-) :
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/GregKoukl/2006/12/14/the_intolerance_of_tolerance?page=full&comments=true
===
"Escaping the Trap "Would you like to know how to get out of this dilemma?" I asked. They nodded. "You must reject this modern distortion of tolerance and return to the classic view." Then I wrote these two principles on the board:
Be egalitarian regarding persons.
Be elitist regarding ideas.[i]"
===
"Whenever you're charged with intolerance, always ask for a definition. When tolerance means neutrality, that all views are equally valid and true, then no one is ever tolerant because no one is ever neutral about his own views. Point out the contradiction built into the new definition. Point out that this kind tolerance is a myth."
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at December 15, 2006 4:47 PM
the problem with Islam is that it is never had a period like that of Christianity enlightenment so it is still mired in its tribal roots in the time of Muhammad and it shows still a very parochial religion as such it takes its direction from that time when the tribal leader was the boss and his word was law so its not surprisingthat anyone that questions or tried to warn about Islam are the victims of criticism and defamed as racist
Posted by: islamakapigeaters at December 15, 2006 4:56 PM
Bassam Tibi still apparently feels he must use the word "Islamism" and not, more accurately, "Islam." It has its uses and it has its drawbacks, but it is not the term that will most enlighten Infidels, even if it may be a figleaf for Muslims tied by filial piety, or civilizational embarrassment, to Islam.
And when Tibi warns about "Islamists" that "they control most of the mosques and the welfare institutions, and they are the official speakers for Islam" he leaves out something important that we must supply from our own understanding. It is not that the "Islamists" control "most of the mosques and the welfare institutions," and that "they are the official speakers of Islam." It is that they control the texts, or rather, the canonical texts of Islam back them, those so-called "Islamists," up. They are orthodox Muslims. They are good Muslims. They are Muslims who take the uncreated and immutable word of God as the uncreated and immutable word of God, and do not ignore their duties as Muslims. They do not ignore the main hadith in the most authoritative collections. They do not ignore the lesson provided by the model of the Perfect Man, Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil. This is what, beyond control of the mosques and control of the welfare institutions and the organized groups, they have: the texts of Islam and the example of Muhammad are on their side.
Posted by: Hugh at December 15, 2006 5:01 PM
Yesterday a canadian radio show had Mr.Shoebat as a guest to try and tell Canadians that part of the Islamist Jihad tactic to to smear ex-terrorism supporting Muslims or any apostate that is now a Christian because this type of Christian is easy to label a Jew-lover
and anti-Muslim , BUT , last night the State Propaganda Ministry called "CBC" had Tariq Ramadan on TV who spewed his tripe about how the Misunderstanding of the Quran by Muslims is part of the Islamophobia in the West.
Mr.Ramadan insists that all of the Human Rights in the west and the UK are based on the Qurans Human Rights , he had the nerve to claim that Females are revered by Islam and it was Muhammad that must be used as the example for how Muslims should treat females in the modern world.
The show on the CBC may be a Podcast archived show , I'll check for a link so you can see it for yourself.
The fact that those 19 Muslims on 9/11 just happened to have "Misunderstood" the true Peaceful teaching of Muhammad , it will bring little comfort to the next victims of hijackings or Suicide bombers when they are about to die .
Pesonally, there is little concern by me when I'm thinking about WHO might kill me one day if that day comes , and I sure ain't going to sit there on a plane and let some prattling chimp with a Quran hijack my flight while I'm supposed to calmly face death becasue the murders have Misunderstood the Quran and aren't "True" Muslims.
at December 15, 2006 5:03 PM
it is never had a period like that of Christianity enlightenment so it is still mired in its tribal roots.....from that time when the tribal leader was the boss and his word was law..."
Yes, that is so true. Ah, yet, look at the Iroquois Confederacy (they were not angels), but what a difference!
Allat
Posted by: allat at December 15, 2006 5:06 PM
Did Herr Tibi flunk at math?
"The radicals are no more than a tiny minority -- between 3 per cent and 5 per cent of the Muslim population, [Tibi] guesses..."
Further down in the article:
"I asked Dr. Tibi how many of Germany's 3.2 million Muslims share his progressive, secular views. "Maybe a few thousand," he said."
So, first he says 5 percent are radicals -- that would be 160 thousand out of 3.2 million. Then he says that only a "few thousand" are progressive like him. So which is it?
Either this means he has his figures ass-backwards, or it means he is implying the existence of a third demographic population of Muslims, besides the two he posits (radicals and progressives). This third demographic population by implication constitutes the vast majority, and does not share his progressive views. So where do they stand on the "radicals"?
Posted by: remote_control at December 15, 2006 5:11 PM
Yes, that is so true. Ah, yet, look at the Iroquois Confederacy (they were not angels), but what a difference!Posted by: allat
allat you might know that the "Knights Templar who escaped France and later went to the New World, and introduced a treaty that which the Iroquois could
have peace among their nations. so it was the "enlightened Christians that showed the way". btw some of my ancestors are of Iroquois lineage.
at December 15, 2006 5:20 PM
"It is most disturbing to see how writers who try to warn about the totalitarian character of Islamism are defamed as racists. This wrong-headed political correctness prevents any honest discussion about the subject"
--------
You got that right. Now if only the average idiot understood this... ain't gonna happen though.
Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 15, 2006 6:01 PM
It sure is tiresome to hear how Islam consists of a vast majority of peaceful people being held captive by a tiny minority of psychos and dummies who simply don't understand Islam. This "hostage crisis" has lasted 1400 years with no end in sight. I've yet to hear an answer to why that majority simply doesn't just take back their Islam-pronounce fatwas on that tiny clique, make them apostates, even behead them if need be. Is it because in the heart of every Muslim they know how flawed Islam really is in its veneration of the very imperfect Mr. Perfect among other things?
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 15, 2006 6:02 PM
From Pakistan:
Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal demands government ban on Time Magazine
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at December 15, 2006 6:17 PM
ISLAMSFORLOSERS, well said!
Posted by: EliasAlucard at December 15, 2006 6:39 PM
ISLAMSFORLOSERS I agree with EliasAlucard --right on the money as usual! THANK YOU!
oh and for you of those that dont know: in the 'religion of peace' jihad is the ONLY way (short of getting trampled scurryinng around the Kabba on a pilgrimage) to be sure you get to heaven and get those 72 virgins. The rest are weighed against 'Allah's scales' --going against the Hadith/Quran weighs against you. And one of the main things is establishing a Caliphite. If you speak out as a muslim against Islam in any way --Allah will curse you because you have taken sides with the kafir against the MAIN purpose of Islam:
"Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them—these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. THIS IS piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."
Qur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward."
Thats why a youth burning cars in Europe believes he is doing Allahs work, the work of jihad
(the work the darkness in the human heart really)
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at December 15, 2006 7:32 PM
It is most disturbing to see how writers who try to warn about the totalitarian character of Islamism are defamed as racists...
Constraint of free speech is a central principle of Marxism. Just look at our universities today.
...he says, that the (Moslem) radicals are no more than a tiny minority -- between 3 per cent and 5 per cent of the Muslim population...
What bullcrap this is. 100% of all Moslems are radicals. This is so cuz Islam is radical. It is logically and literally impossible to be a moderate Moslem, which is exactly why none exist.
Seen a Unicorn lately?
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 15, 2006 8:54 PM
Again, as stated before...
Their accusations are totally bogus...since islamis not a race.
How they can continue to expect us to believe such ad hominem attacks when they've long been exposed as outright fraduluent defies rationale`.
Someone get those loony-tunes a new playbook.
lol
Posted by: jcom972 at December 15, 2006 9:22 PM
It is most disturbing to see how writers who try to warn about the totalitarian character of Islamism are defamed as racists...
That's not disturbing, what's disturbing is how many people immediately cringe and cower and back down once that R-bomb is thrown at them. I could sit here and call every one of you racists until my damned lips fall off and not one of you would think themselves bigoted, in fact you probably fight back and hound me off the board. Dhimmis and ninnies who fall back to name calling when you point out the truth against Islam only have power over you if you let them. Stand up. Fight back.
at December 15, 2006 10:02 PM
Mr. Tibi has reinforced my belief that there are three types of muslims:
1) Radical jihadists who seek to kill, subjugate, or convert every non-muslim in existence.
2) Sincere reformers who seek to make islam compatible with Western notions of freedom and equality. probably less than .001% if Mr. Tibis numbers for Germany are accurate.
3) Those who general share the views of type 1 but are not as ambitious or rabid about it.
Posted by: senatortombstone at December 15, 2006 10:20 PM
Re: "It is most disturbing to see how writers who try to warn about the totalitarian character of Islamism are defamed as racists. This wrong-headed political correctness prevents any honest discussion about the subject"
That may be true in Germany where people are sensitive about the holocaust. But in America, we are fast coming upon the time when people are going to openly mock such comments and call it bullshit.
The reaction to the Flying Phonies on US Air is partly the result of the collective realization that it was not long ago that people in America got on planes with almost the same ease with which they still get in their cars to go on a trip and that all that changed because of this belief-system. People are offended by CAIR and Co. (Al-Qaeda Lite) style attempts to blame all of this hassle that everyone faces on Unbeliever bigotry and phony charges of "racism".
The 1984 Orwellian-totalitarian security at airports that requires all of us to jump through hoops to get on a plane is the fruit of Islam-and only the result of this fruit-cake belief system. People in America are well aware of why we have to go through the hassles and remember the pre-911 days. People in America are tired of Muslim stunts and their repulsive denial of reality.
Maybe folks in Europe will get weary of Muslim bullshit, too.
at December 15, 2006 11:30 PM
squire wrote:
"Whenever you're charged with intolerance, always ask for a definition. When tolerance means neutrality, that all views are equally valid and true, then no one is ever tolerant because no one is ever neutral about his own views. "
The key phrase here is "that all views are equally valid and true". For absurdity, I will bring up the too common idea that the Apollo moon landings were a hoax.
More seriously ...
While in the U.S. Army, I have spent time in Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain. And I have spent several years working in Saudi Arabia as a civilian.
I have three observations about my time in Saudi Arabia. First, I have worked with a few good people - most are rocks with legs - there, but you can never, never, never ever forget that they are Muslim.
Second, I initially bought into the mantra "Islam is a Religion of Peace and Tolerance (RoPaT)". All you have to do is watch how they treat their guest workers - even Muslim ones.
Third, more than 95% - I am probably being charitable - of the people here in the U.S.(including the people we elect to make decisions for us) do not have a freaking clue about what is really going on in the Muslim world.
Posted by: jay at December 15, 2006 11:36 PM
the problem with Islam is that it is never had a period like that of Christianity enlightenment so it is still mired in its tribal roots in the time of Muhammad and it shows still a very parochial religion as such it takes its direction from that time when the tribal leader was the boss and his word was law so its not surprising that anyone that questions or tried to warn about Islam are the victims of criticism and defamed as racist
Posted by: islamakapigeaters
>>>surah {5}_102,O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.[102]
>>>Bukhari v2b24n555 I heard the prophet say Allah has hated you for asking too many questions. ALLAH KNOWS WHAT THEY MEAN
(That defeats the whole purpose of scripture.)
allah hates those who question his revelations and its not for the muslim to know the meaning, allah knows what his revelations mean!
allah explains it pretty well in surah 5_102 i think. "dont question those things that may make you turn and run from islam like a bat set free from hell if the truth were shown to you!"
at December 15, 2006 11:54 PM
The new secretary of defense to replace Mr Rumsfeld was asked "who are the hezbollah?"
The man had no clue, he answered with a question, the sunnis?
Washington, we got a problem!!!
Posted by: Thndrbang at December 16, 2006 12:00 AM
Who is innocent?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/185741.php
Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 16, 2006 12:04 AM
Don`t listen to Tibi,he doesn`t know what he`s talking about...just trust President Bush : "islam is a religion of peace"...
And if you don`t believe him,just ask anyone at the ACLU or CAIR and they`ll tell you the same thing:"islam is a religion of peace".
at December 16, 2006 1:08 AM
allah explains it pretty well in surah 5_102 i think. "dont question those things that may make you turn and run from islam like a bat set free from hell if the truth were shown to you!"
wow. this surah is mohamads admission that islam is a sham.
at December 16, 2006 6:19 AM
Qur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward."
Thats why a youth burning cars in Europe believes he is doing Allahs work, the work of jihad
(the work the darkness in the human heart really)
Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN
with all this information you see coming from the koran, l do not understand how politicians and the elites can ignore this cult of death. it will take grass roots from to reach the so called top.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at December 16, 2006 7:33 AM
Mr. Tibi has reinforced my belief that there are three types of muslims:
1) Radical jihadists who seek to kill, subjugate, or convert every non-muslim in existence.
2) Sincere reformers who seek to make islam compatible with Western notions of freedom and equality. probably less than .001% if Mr. Tibis numbers for Germany are accurate.
3) Those who general share the views of type 1 but are not as ambitious or rabid about it.
Posted by:senatortombstone atDec.15,2006 10:20PM
Agreed. Unfortunately, # 1 is subjugating and converting # 3 back to # 1 at an alarming rate.
# 1 is also killing off # 2 easily, since in reality, they are such a small minority anyway.
Either this means he has his figures ass-backwards, or it means he is implying the existence of a third demographic population of Muslims, besides the two he posits (radicals and progressives). This third demographic population by implication constitutes the vast majority, and does not share his progressive views. So where do they stand on the "radicals"?
Posted by:remote_control Dec.15, 2006 05:11 PM
Agreed 100%. The vast majority is type # 3. They can morph into # 1 or # 2 at any time, however.
# 2's call to reform to # 3 is, "Hey, nobody's doing it and it can get you killed, so you wanna join?"
We already know how # 1's call to Jihad goes...
#1 + #1 does not equal a #2.
#3 - #1 can become a #2, although it remains to be seen. The only way for this math work is to eliminate Muslim type #1 entirely.
Posted by: awake at December 16, 2006 9:47 AM
"pythagoras" wrote:
'Notice how Muslims CLAIM to be worshiping the Judeo-Christian deity although it has a different name "al-lah" (yahweh is NOT al-lah and the difference is NOT merely nominal).'
This is absurd nonsense. 'Allah' is simply the Arabic word for God. Try telling the millions of Arabic Christians, who refer to the God of the Bible as 'Allah', that their God is not the same as that of other non-Arabic Christians.
To say that 'Allah' is different to 'God' because the words sound different is as absurd as saying that the French 'Dieu' is different to the German 'Gott' is different to the Russian 'Bog', all of which are different to the all-American 'God'(which is itself different to the British 'God' by dint of the pronunciation of the central vowel).
Posted by: schmegel at December 16, 2006 3:42 PM
Schmegel --
Not to mention the deities of the US Midwest and South: "Gahd" and "Gawd," respectively.
Posted by: MarisolJW at December 16, 2006 11:25 PM
pythagoras" wrote:
'Notice how Muslims CLAIM to be worshiping the Judeo-Christian deity although it has a different name "al-lah" (yahweh is NOT al-lah and the difference is NOT merely nominal).'
This is absurd nonsense. 'Allah' is simply the Arabic word for God. Try telling the millions of Arabic Christians, who refer to the God of the Bible as 'Allah', that their God is not the same as that of other non-Arabic Christians.
To say that 'Allah' is different to 'God' because the words sound different is as absurd as saying that the French 'Dieu' is different to the German 'Gott' is different to the Russian 'Bog', all of which are different to the all-American 'God'(which is itself different to the British 'God' by dint of the pronunciation of the central vowel).
Posted by: schmegel
schmegel, you are another of the idiots who have been throughly decieved. allah was a pagan moon god the pagan arabs worshipped well before muhammad claimed to have become enlightened infact muhammads fasthers name was abd ullah which means slave/servant of allah. This pagan moon god allah of mekka had 3 daughters lat, minat and al uzza, it was al uzza who loved the human sacrifice and it was al uzza the pagan arabs sacrificed their daughters to!
while in mekka among the people of muhammads tribe the quaryesh muhammad called his god ar rahaman, after being run out of mekka for telling the pagans allahs daughters lat ,minat and al uzza would be intercessories for the muslims before his god ar rahman muhammad and his muslim rapist murderers and thugs migrated toyathrib, ( present day medina ) here muhammad took the name allah for his god because the people of yathrib were aware of the pagan god ar rahman!
In qu'ran allah commands muslims to pronounce the "name" of allah over their holiday sacrifice! Ask any muslim what is the "name" of allah, they will tell you allah has 99 names!
You mention the arab christians calling god allah , they better call god allah or they will be attacked rape murdered and enslaved by the muslims if they call god anything other than allah!
however this itself is not a true statement because the arab christians call allah
"jehovah allah"
You see allah is not a name, allah is a title which in arabic means "the god"
al= the
illah= god
allah = the god!
so what is the "name" of allah the muslims are commanded to pronounce over their holiday sacrifices?
one only needs read the qu'ran to find proof allah is not the same God the jew and christian worship!
allah admits in the qu'ran he is not the God of Abraham,Issac,Jacob,Moses and Jesus!
read surah 9}_29,
>>>SURAH 9-29,,Fight those people of the Book (Jews and Christians)
"""who do not believe in Allah""" and the Last Day, do not refrain from what has been prohibited by Allah and His Messenger and do not embrace the religion of truth (Al-Islam), until they pay Jizya (protection tax) with their own hands and feel themselves subdued.[29]
read that carefully! fight the jew and christians """ who do not believe in allah"""
What more does allah need say to prove to you allah is not the God of Abraham!
Ofcourse the Jew and Christians do not believe in the satanic diety allah posing as the god of Abraham.
why else would the imposter allah command muslims to attack rob rape terrorize subdue enslave and slaughter the Jew and Christian!
But as if that were not enough proof, in the qu'ran you find allah in hell personally kindling the fires of hell to burn all those muslims muhammad decieved into believing allah is god!
>>> SURAH 17}-97,,Those whom Allah guides are rightly guided; and those whom He lets go astray, shall find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather them all, prone on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf. Hell shall be their abode: whenever its flames die down, We (ALLAH ) will rekindle for them the fierceness of the fire.[97]
>>>104 AL-HUMAZAH - THE SLANDERER-In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Woe to every slanderer and defamer,[1] who amasses wealth and keeps on counting it.[2] He thinks that his wealth will insure his status forever![3] By no means! He shall be thrown into Hotamah.[4] What will make you understand what Hotamah is?[5] It is the fire kindled to a blaze by Allah Himself.[6] The one which will rise right to the hearts,[7] closing in upon them from every side[8] in outstretched columns.[9]
now the question just begs to be asked, what is allah doing in hell stoking and kindling hells fire?
there is but one answer, allah belongs in hell!
hell was created for allah!
allah is satan!
at December 18, 2006 4:50 AM
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