So FBI not allah is protecting its people?

Conclusion: the FBI needs to be investigated too.

Posted by: Arnie at January 6, 2007 8:32 AM

He who controls the electrons, controls the mass.

Posted by: SickBoy at January 6, 2007 8:41 AM

IF the e-mail wasn't sent by someone associated with cair (as a smoke blower)to make it look like it was a real threat then it's probably a disgruntled muslim.

Posted by: Desdinova at January 6, 2007 8:44 AM

One wonders if the FBI is also investigating the death threats against Mr. Spencer.

I presume they are, but it would be telling if they are not.

In any case, these supposed death threats against the immam have more political stock in a PC/multiculturalist climate than threats against mere infidels.

We will get more "hate crime" legislation so as a result that will serve to shut-up anyone critically questioning islam.

Posted by: witness at January 6, 2007 8:52 AM

This sure seems convenient. What is this supposed "death threat" over anyway? What is CAIR claiming here, that he was threatented because he had an award that he didn't deserve rescinded by Senator Boxer's office? That makes no sense.

CAIR: Clowns Advocating Islam's Resurgence

Posted by: DCWatson at January 6, 2007 9:00 AM

Sounds like a double standard to me. We're already making headway towards dhimmitude. Robert et al are second class citizens whose lives are worth less than a Muslims. I am just waiting for reduced sentences for Muslims who commit crimes against dhimmis.

Posted by: Sir Oinks Alot at January 6, 2007 9:09 AM

OT~ regarding 'hate-crime legislation'.... I am being told H.Res 288 is non-binding (which is pretty much what I thought, also)... but it seems to be it does open the door to being able to create bad law down the road.

Can anyone verify this thinking, Please?

Posted by: Gary at January 6, 2007 9:12 AM

My God protect you Mr. Spencer, because it seems the FBI isn't.

P.S. Just wanted you to know that I voted for you for the Anti-idiotarian award recently at LGF. I have read all your recent scholarly books and find them objectively informative. Whether or not a political candidate is informed about Islam will be the major criteria for casting my vote from now on.

Thank you for your courage and honesty.

Posted by: aqvik at January 6, 2007 9:17 AM

I would not be surprised if the "death threat" is a stunt. I'm sure the FBI is well aware of the sinister and deceptive nature of this organization. Boxer got a "heads-up" from somebody. Watch for more stunts in the future when CAIR knows they have been under heavy-duty investigation. They'll even blame the "Zionists" for that too.

Posted by: Frank at January 6, 2007 9:19 AM

Basim Elkarra is a drama queen so it would not suprise me if he and his group came up with this e-mail stuff to make themselves look like poor victems. Remember the flying Imams. etc.

Lets give it a few days to gel and see what comes of it.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at January 6, 2007 9:26 AM

Frank

Dam beat me to it.

Bravo!!!!

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at January 6, 2007 9:27 AM

The fight between Islam and America is existential. Take the threat seriously. What you are doing Professor Spencer is very heroic. The death threats you receive are a sign of your overall success at getting the message out. I intend to deliver copies of your books to my church. The pastor has expressed distinct interest in being informed about true Islam. We are a fundamentalist congregation. Get all evangelical churches on your side. Right now quibbling over whether the threat of Islam is real is a luxury. The sooner this country wages total war on Islam, the lower the butcher's bill will be.

We used the Smith Act to control communism during the cold war. Why could we not use it now to control Islam as to its political agenda?

Posted by: Crusader at January 6, 2007 9:34 AM

greatcometof1577-

These CAIR people are not playing with a full deck and their judgement with other people is not good (they are almost as bad as President Bush re Putin in that regard). I have no doubt they think Robert is part of the "Zionist conspiracy". It would never occur to them that Robert might have personal reasons (the remembrance of a relative back in Turkey who was hurt by the Wackos, e.g.) that would cause him to confront Jihad crap. They are prone to paranoia and view themselves as victims.

Posted by: Frank at January 6, 2007 9:36 AM

"Memo to AP: I myself have received numerous email death threats from Islamic jihadists. In addition, I was even named by Al-Qaeda's Adam Gadahn in a videotape introduced by Al-Zawahri himself. Yet you have never found any of this worthy of note. This isn't about me personally -- it is about what you choose to tell the public, and what you don't, and why. One would think that death threats are all equally odious and newsworthy, no? Yet apparently they aren't -- can you explain why? You can contact me here, at director@jihadwatch.org."

Posted by Robert.

Oh dear. Simple. Dog bites man is not newsworthy. However, man bites dog is.

LOL.

Posted by: pr126 at January 6, 2007 9:53 AM

I would not be surprised if the "death threat" is a stunt.
Posted by: Frank at January 6, 2007 09:19 AM

I smell the same rat here. Somehow I don't think there were any "death threats." This is another attempt by the muslims of CAIR to reverse the roles and make themselves look like the victim.

Posted by: A.I. Steamroller at January 6, 2007 9:56 AM

Please do follow up with this story.

The FBI has been very busy dismissing terrorist acts as isolated incidents inflicted by unfortunate loners with mental issues (SUDDEN JIHAD SYNDROME)as having nothing to do with islamic terror (au contraire) . .. while ignoring reported threats (fatwahs) against citizens like Robert - all documented online not to mention posted on at least two NYT best sellers by Robert Spencer. H-E-L-L-O FBI? Anyone home???

CAIR and co. have LOST ALL credibility and if this supposed 'threat' turns out to be a self inflicted wound, as previous episodes have been (hate-crime myths), INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.

Not only do I want to know, I DEMAND AP exert equal time/effort/page space to exposing this fraud IF this turns out to be an attention garnering hoax.

Posted by: justamomof4 at January 6, 2007 9:56 AM

That's ok because
Al Jazeerah says Pat Robertson planning terror attack to blame on muslims

According to the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada he should also be sent to Gitmo, and banned from ever entering Canada.

ROTFLMFAO

Posted by: blackdogbrigade at January 6, 2007 9:56 AM

Not surprising. This is just one more example of something that has taken hold in this country over the last 40 years. It is essentially a modern version of the ancient wergild system. Back in the days of King Ine of Wessex, the population was divided up by class (amount of land held), status (slave or free) and by ethnicity (newly arrived ruling Saxons or older population of Britons). Each category received a monetary value. Thus if a person was killed the perpetrator and his family would owe money to the family of the victim. The amount owed was determined by the social status of the victim.

Today we have developed something similar. Blacks are worth more than Whites (think of the Duke "rape" case, while black on white crime is ignored). White males, in general are at the bottom of the wergild list. Another determing factor is political affiliation. A Democrat such as Clinton is given a pass for sexual abuse, while Republicans are thrown out of office for much lower level actions - think Foley, Packwood etc. Other minorities, in addition to Blacks are now rated higher than White American Christians (and now Jews as well) and these include, of course, Muslims.

We really need someone like Ine to regularize and standardize our wonderful new system so that everyone will know exactly what his ranking is and how much wergild he is worth. It will avoid much confusion.

Posted by: RBLA at January 6, 2007 10:04 AM

They must be the only non-Muslims who care.

Posted by: Dumbo at January 6, 2007 10:14 AM

This is deception from the mohammedans, similar to the ravaged korans a while back. They love to pull these stunts, they love publicity, any publicity as long as the spotlight is on them.

Posted by: the poetess at January 6, 2007 10:49 AM

"One would think that death threats are all equally odious and newsworthy, no? Yet apparently they aren't -- can you explain why?"
Posted by Robert

(sarcasm on)
Robert, Robert, Robert. The threat of death against infidels is prescribed and required in the Qur'an. You of all people should know this.

For you to say that they can't threaten your life is religious descrimination against Islam.

What are you, some sort of Islamophobe??
(sarcasm off)

Posted by: awake at January 6, 2007 10:54 AM

CAIR's Nihad Awad Says 2 CAIR Officials Didn't Work At CAIR While Committing Crimes

"Awad, the group's national director, said CAIR strongly condemned bin Laden by name after the Sept. 11 attacks. He said Elashi and Royer were not involved with CAIR when they committed their crimes."

*** The Proof ***

Ghassan Elashi: According to the federal indictment, Elashi was laundering money for Islamic terrorist organizations from 11/95 through 4/01 (pages 21 & 22). Dating back to the early 1990s, Elashi had close ties to CAIR's leaders. Elashi founded the CAIR -Texas chapter sometime before October, 2000 (CAIR -Texas first appeared as an affiliate on the CAIR National web site in October 2000).

Ismail Royer: Anti-CAIR put out a notice [July 2003] pointing to the fact that when Royer was driving around the Washington, D.C. area in September 2001 with an AK-47-style rifle [see indictment] and more than 200 rounds of ammunition, he was not a former CAIR employee but an active one, as indicated by a USA Today story from that time referring to him as "Ismail Royer of the Council on American-Islamic Relations."

Posted by: 411 at January 6, 2007 10:57 AM

"The FBI said that it is investigating a death threat sent to the leader of a local Muslim group after US Sen. Barbara Boxer rescinded a certificate her office had awarded to him."
-- first sentence in the news item above

This is a peculiar way to put it. It is as if there is some kind of necessary connection between the alleged "death threat" that is now being investigated, and the fact that it was supposedly made "after US Sen. Barbara Boxer rescinded a certificate her office had awarded to him."

That makes it sound as if what Boxer did triggered the "death threat," and so, wrong before, by Muslim lights, it is doubly wrong for it has some kind of assumed relationship -- indeed, is presented as possibly the cause -- of that "death threat."

Why did the AP present the story this way?

It could have done a number of things. It could have ignored the story, because everybody and his brother gets death threats these days. It could have carried the story, but written it correctly.

How would that be?

Like this:

The FBI is investigating a death threat that the leader of a local Muslim group, Basim Elkarra, claims to have received.

Mr. Elkarra, executive director of the Sacramento chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, was in the news recently when an award initially to be bestowed upon him was rescinded by Senator Barbara Boxer upon her investigation of details of Mr. Elkarra's expressed views and his work for a group several of whose founders have been charged, and successfully prosecuted, on terrorism-related charges.

The Special Agent in Charge, Karen Ernst said Friday the bureau launched an investigation and it is continuing."

None of that stuff that the AP includes in such detail, that clearly CAIR wanted to have appear and it did appear, all about how "Elkarra, executive director of the Sacramento chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, received a certificate of accomplishment from Boxer’s office in November recognizing his oustanding service" and then the following paragraph, that goes on at similar brainwashing length, quoting Elkarra himself:

"Elkarra said the award reflected his group’s efforts to establish good relations with Christians, Jews, minority groups and the FBI."

None of that.

Just the facts, Ma'am. Not the special pleading by AP, on behalf of Elkarra, CAIR, and Islam.

AP really has got to cut it out.

Posted by: Hugh at January 6, 2007 11:09 AM

Interesting perhaps, points to keep in mind:

There is a sudden upsurge of supposed incidents of “anti-muslim” activities
Which not coincidently are occurring just as the Pelosi dhimmicrats – who have all but promised special muslim-only legislation – have taken over power in the USA. The goal – to reinforce this promise in order to insure passage of unconstitutional anti-liberty laws –favoring islamic philosophies and “cultural” standards vice those of western civilization.

Only alleged discrimination against the “religious” group –muslims is occurring. No other religious groups (or racial ones) are being suddenly discriminated against (Islamic-muslims are not a race). In the “most racist place on earth – outside of the mid-east – how is that no other groups (racial, economic, religious, etc.) are coming under increased attacks. Only “anti-muslim discrimination” is news worthy – or the media is biased in favor of highest bidder – or discrimination, bigotry, racism, is not as wide spread and does not occur as much as media and muslims claim.

Old media reports –in highest-possible profile – exclusively on supposed discrimination against the “religious” group muslim (which is not a racial entity as it consists of every race known). How does this happen. It seems so well timed and coordinated as if to be planned and pres-staged.

How much money does this take and from whom to whom is it flowing in order to fund this campaign to create a problem that does not exist in reality.

This entire situation would be called – hostile propaganda in a sane world.

Posted by: TINBH at January 6, 2007 11:19 AM

Hugh states:

The FBI said that it is investigating a death threat sent to the leader of a local Muslim group after US Sen. Barbara Boxer rescinded a certificate her office had awarded to him." -- first sentence in the news item above

This is a peculiar way to put it. It is as if there is some kind of necessary connection between the alleged "death threat" that is now being investigated, and the fact that it was supposedly made "after US Sen. Barbara Boxer rescinded a certificate her office had awarded to him."

My thoughts follow the same path of thought.

It appears this is an attempt to redirect attention. Boxer's rescention of an award exposed them to undesired scrutiny of past events.

This is clearly an attempt to redirect the public's scrutiny to focus on muslim 'victimhood' status notably with what appears to follow the general pattern of the AP's (Associated w/terrorists Press) collusion. Victimology is a game in which muhammedans currently hold the gold medal.

Posted by: miira at January 6, 2007 11:22 AM

Robert, have you contacted your Congressional Rep about the death threats?

A visit to their office, along with copies of the threats you recieve and a copy of this article might stir up some FBI action on your behalf.

Once you're there in person, it's harder to ignore you.

Posted by: treehugger at January 6, 2007 11:26 AM

Everyone:

My comments above were directed only at AP. I have no complaint against the FBI. After repeated phone-calling and inquiries through various channels, I was able to prevail upon an agent to come to the office and discuss some of the threats with me.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at January 6, 2007 11:37 AM

made-up koran flushing … extra cartoons … flying imams … deceit … islam.

Posted by: LoneRanger at January 6, 2007 11:55 AM

It's best to shed light on the minority 'victimhood' pattern.
on fox last night I listened to an imman proclaim the minneapolis cab drivers were being denied their 'right' to practice their religion. Since they are a minority I'm sure the ACLU will step in, right? On will the upcoming violence be excused because they were 'disenfranchied' in our society?

Posted by: xqqme at January 6, 2007 12:00 PM

CAIR said, "FBI, jump." The director has to ask permission to come down. Spencer gets a death threat amd the FBI yawns.

Cowards all.

Posted by: Pelayo at January 6, 2007 12:02 PM

Robert, where is the press release, the announcement, the case number? I would think that I was being patronized.

Posted by: Pelayo at January 6, 2007 12:04 PM

Don't wanna be a drag, but so long as we're talking death threats, just a reminder to get out your credit card and press the Make A Donation Button.

I disagree with Spencer on tactics, and with Fitzpatrick on style (and a lotta other things), but who gives a damn I try to throw in a thousand or so a year.

This is war. These are allies. Pass the ammunition.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 6, 2007 12:06 PM

The problem for Mr. Spencer like all American people is that when we receive death threats "it is a joke" to the government. I have had several myself, but death threats only matter if 1 key ingredient is present, one is a liberal Democommunist.
Mr. Spencer needs to become a worshipper of Stalin and a hater of all that is America then the FBI will be camping on his door to protect him instead of now as the liberal wing of that corupted institution probably has a file on him for being a danger to the world.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at January 6, 2007 12:12 PM

like others who stated, l also smell a big fat rat with CAIR written all over its backside. these poor
muslims need to blame someone and draw attention tother so called cult, and l hope the FBI discovers their farce.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at January 6, 2007 2:18 PM

I have no doubt they think Robert is part of the "Zionist conspiracy Posted by Frank

Exactly right, something you might know if you regularly lurk (at least) on so called Liberty Forum

A forum of antisemitic right wing Catholics, Christians and Muslims. At any rate, the consensus litany there is that everything is a Zionist conspiracy.. and I mean everything.
Depressingly the most adamant dhimmi's, and Islamophiles on that forum are Catholics and Right Wing Christians..they perceive Islam as moral, and traditional family values, i.e. patriarchial and thus a natural ally against "liberal secularism",
a complaint evidently shared by many a poster here.

With the muslims over on that forum, and they are legion, often concealing their religion, it is a matter of projection.. They project their hatred, conspiracies, evil deeds, elitism, etc onto others, especially the Jews errr ..Zionists..corner the muslim and call them antisemites or Jew haters and they demur that they don't hate Jews (and that Arabs are semites, which is bullshit), just so called "Satanic Jews", which obviously means any and all Jews that will not submit, and failure to submit constitutes an act of aggression and humiliation of the muslim.

Apparently there are a number of Qur'anic quotes about "satanic jews".. being a non believer, I don't believe in any satan,Iblis, djinns, shaytan, etc..knowing that they are all carryovers of the evil Zoroastrian god Ahriman, and the Egyptian Set, Seth.. {I also don't believe in angels or an etheral entity that can hear billions of voices praying and imploring, and who has a personal interest in our sex lives, or our personal lives at that, doesn't make sense).

As regards Arabs being semites, Semite is merely a language classification, the Arabic language is semitic, but that doesn't make the person a semite, anymore than an Asian American can be called an Indo European.

Posted by: Nariz at January 6, 2007 3:21 PM

I would really like to see a complete list of the threats Robert and Co get, as apart from the threats themselves which are crimes, to me they reveal the heart of adherents to this fake religion.

I would be surprised if the 4 Robert links to are the only ones received.

Posted by: payingattention at January 6, 2007 4:34 PM

Not that I endorse the idea of death threats, especially if they are against undeserving persons, but I think this development is positive, in that a Senator rescinds an award (for good reason), it's publicized, someone sends a death threat (possibly a nut), which proves that people at least heard of the rescission and reasons why and it may have educated a few more who had their head in the sand. That said assuming this is not a CAIR/or similar stunt.

If Boxer is "proud to serve the people of the State of California and all Americans" per her website, we, and anyone we can influence, should let her know how we feel she did the right thing and to consider not caving in, no matter what pressure she may come up against. Her email form is at- http://boxer.senate.gov/contact/email/policy.cfm

Posted by: JBarsimson at January 6, 2007 6:18 PM

Basim and Robert should have a contest. Who ever has the most hate mail wins the Peace Award.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at January 6, 2007 8:59 PM

OT~ regarding 'hate-crime legislation'.... I am being told H.Res 288 is non-binding (which is pretty much what I thought, also)... but it seems to be it does open the door to being able to create bad law down the road.

Can anyone verify this thinking, Please?

Yup.. It's called the slippery slope.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 6, 2007 9:28 PM

After reading the "Terrorist Hunter: the extraordinary story of a woman who went undercover to infiltrate the radical islamic groups operating in America", by an anonymous Iraqi woman, I think the FBI should be investigated.

The Iraqi woman raised far too many disturbing, troubling questions -- can the FBI really be so incompetent or has the FBI been infiltrated at the highest levels? Just who is the FBI protecting?

Posted by: J.S. at January 6, 2007 10:30 PM

If you say anything about islam, you will be threatened.
Lovely religion, lovely people. I think it is called the RoP®
What a crock.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 7, 2007 12:47 AM

RBLA,

How on earth did you come up with your theory that "Blacks" are worth more than "Whites"? African Americans as a population are at the very bottom of American society living in the worst conditions as a result of what? Your so-called "White" Christians, who enslaved and brought them here. It was forced African labor that built the American economy, which enabled it to break free of the British while making "White" men wealthy. That wasn't enough they raped countless slaves male and female and killed many for the fun of it.

As for Nariz,

Your post seems to be contradictory because you say that an Arab can't be labeled a Semite yet a person who is Jewish can be because there are people who are anti-Semitic. Is it, or is it not based on language as you pointed out? The term didn't even exist in the English language until the 19th century and at that time it was bound to the Bible and Shem one of Noah's three sons. Shem being the forefather of the "Semitic" people, which included Jews and Arabs among others, like the Ethiopians. Interestingly if we use the Biblical account of things, Jews and Arabs are cousins.

Speaking of ancient Egyptian religion, according to Freud, Moses gave the Jews a religion based on what he learned growing up in Egypt, and that he got it from Akhenaten who was supposedly the first Monotheist. Whether Freud is correct or not, all of the so-called big three are intimately connected to Africa, which gave birth to all of the genetic variations in modern day humans.

Posted by: tradefair at January 7, 2007 1:25 AM

tradefair,
" all of the so-called big three are intimately connected to Africa, which gave birth to all of the genetic variations in modern day humans."
Theory

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 7, 2007 2:43 AM

according to Freud
You mean the heroin user Freud?
more theory, unproven theory

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 7, 2007 2:46 AM

Maybe "all death threats are equal - but some death threats are more equal to others"

Posted by: drk at January 7, 2007 8:16 AM

Nariz,

I think you've made a number of excellent observations -- I have also found a kind of solidarity between the (ultra ?) right-wing Christians and Muslims. Interestingly, just as there is solidarity between the (ultra ?) left-wing Christians (those would include the Anglicans) and Muslims.

The extremes at both ends of the spectrum are really troubling (for me, it's a toss up as to which is worse -- the Canadian media tends to be on the (ultra ?) left-wing variety; it's the most vocal, hence, the target for contrarians such as myself -- I think if the media outlets were (Ultra) right-wing, I'd be pointing out the errors as well). Anyway, more secularism (imo) is what's needed in the Muslim community, not less.

To another poster-- Frued was not addicted to heroin -- it was to opiate pain killers (cocaine), since he had cancer. His book exploring Egypt, etc., has been discounted by virtually everyone (there's a name for it "[blank] myth" -- the name escapes me right now).

Posted by: J.S. at January 7, 2007 11:16 AM

Nariz
I am not familiar with the Liberty Forum or the religion or the politics of the posters there. I would like to know what you think the difference is between a "Catholic and a Christian", as expressed by you in an above post. Another question, how do you determine the religion, or lack, of any of the posters at LF and especially how do you determine that a poster, "legions of them", is a muslim posing as a non muslim?
You seem to be under the impression that a person who is on the right is naturally disposed to be anti Israel or a Jew hater when it seems to most political pundits to be the opposite. It is the left that has taken this position and savy Jews know it.

Posted by: pismopal at January 7, 2007 11:52 AM

Tradefair,

Perhaps I did not make myself clear - though its more likely that your thinking wasn't very clear. I'm referring to contemporary America, not to the time when Muslim slave traders first got the colonists addicted to cheap African labor. Is there a double standard, absolutely. Everyone has heard of the Tawana Brawley and Duke frameups, but how many have heard of the rape and murder of a group of white college students by black thugs in Omaha, a few years back.

Furthermore, although you may never have heard of it in what passes for high school these days, a half a million "evil" White males died liberating African slaves in a little imbroglio known as the civil war. I think that sort of evens things out a bit. But just in case it doesn't, the massive welfare payments to Blacks over the last 40 years surely does.

I fear all this is getting OT.

Posted by: RBLA at January 7, 2007 12:37 PM

Furthermore, although you may never have heard of it in what passes for high school these days, a half a million "evil" White males died liberating African slaves in a little imbroglio known as the civil war. I think that sort of evens things out a bit. But just in case it doesn't, the massive welfare payments to Blacks over the last 40 years surely does.

Is that good sense I hear?
There is also the not so small matter of Arab slave traders who enslaved many thousands of Europeans and blacks, and still hold slaves.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 7, 2007 6:12 PM

Only minorities can be the victims of discrimination, hate crimes, racism, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's why this lying muslim is getting the royal treatment from the FBI and Mr. Spencer's death threats are ignored. Maybe Mr. Spencer should send the FBI a picture of himself the next time he reports a threat (if he reports them). Maybe then they would respond with the same enthusiasm and concern they have for this lying CAIR traitor and muslim beast. Can anyone think of a single thing muslims are good for? I can't; they are more trouble than they are worth considering that they contribute absolutely nothing but discord, litigation, and racial/religious disharmony to this country and our society, not to mention the constant threat of islam-inspired terrorism.

Death threat my ass! What will these treacherous swine come up with next?! Their melodrama is so predictable and it's a shame that the FBI is wasting precious manpower and resources on their incessant contrived grievances. But if they're busy investigating non-existent crimes, the CAIR terrorists and their fellow travelers can pursue their nefarious agendas with no scrutiny. Keep the infidels distracted, busy, confused---that's their strategy. And it's working like a charm.

Posted by: Susanp at January 9, 2007 12:21 AM

Yes J.S., you were correct in pointing out that it was cocaine that Freud used and he wasn't in the closet about using it, he wrote about it in some of his works. Carolyn2, does his use of it disqualify his work? So many of you are quick to use the same Psychoanalytical theories that coke using Freud had developed when you want to analyze the schizophrenia of those evil taklyd (sp?) Muslims.

Factoid, Coke-a-Cola is the 2nd most recognizable word on the planet after ok, and yes that were the name comes from it used to be made with Coke.

On another note I don't know which history books some of you get your information from. The pretext that the Civil War was fought to free the slaves is just that a pretext, not to mention that the slaves weren't much better off after the Civil War, not to mention all of the slaves who were recruited by the Union to fight against the Confederacy and when it was over they too weren't much better off. Also Lincoln did not propose any federal laws to ban slavery where it already existed. Anyway, one of the reasons for the Emancipation Proclamation was to prevent the British and the French from intervening on the side of the Confederacy because by that time popular opinion in those countries was against slavery. The real cause of the Civil War was about land in the undeveloped West and control of the government.

And let's get something straight I never said that "Whites" were evil and if you noticed I used "Whites" in quotes because there is no such thing as Black or White people. That's part of the racist apparatus created by yes Europeans. There are a number of scholarly works on the economics of racism.

Moving on you guys a preaching to the choir regarding the enslavement of Africans in the Arab world. I must have at least 10 books and numerous scholarly articles on the subject and will be working on a documentary about a group of musicians from Morocco who are the descendants of Sub-Saharan slaves.

By the way RBLA, you made a statement that I agree with, "Muslim slave traders first got the colonists addicted to cheap African labor."
The reality is that Western Europe got a lot of ideas from the Muslim infidels during the medieval era. To their credit the Muslims gathered together classical Greek works that Europeans had discarded and had them translated into Arabic often by Arab Christians, which allowed many of those works to survive when they were being burnt and suppressed by the Pope. Sadly the idiotic men who came to control the Muslim masses ended up doing the same thing, they became religious fanatics who saw no need for science and learning.

Oh Carolyn2, what’s with “ the massive welfare payments to Blacks over the last 40 years”? This really betrays the racists’ perception that you have of who really collects and benefits from taxpayers dollars in America through all forms of welfare programs. Welfare has an African American face because that is how it is portrayed in the media and by Right Wing Conservatives. Yes African Americans receive a disproportionate amount of welfare because they are only 12% of the population however people of European ancestry collect more money through all of the various Federal assistance programs than African Americans. I’m just glad that I don’t live in Europe where half of my paycheck would go to funding the massive amounts of Arabs and Africans that are living in host countries. Based on how things are going here in America massive amounts of Americans might be seeking assistance in European countries pretty soon and the Euro is kicking our ass. Americans are lining up trying to get jobs in the Middle East, because that is where the money is, there and in the Far East.

We have a far greater problem than Muslim terrorists and that is not to say that the threat isn’t real. I lived through 9/11, I saw the buildings fall down. The other day a Muslim got on the train and started praying next to me I got off at the next stop. Needless to say he didn’t blow up the train but I didn’t want to find out if that was going to happen. The reality is that I am more likely to get killed by some crazy person pushing me onto the tracks of an on coming subway car than being blown up by an Arab praying next to me on the train.

And yes Carolyn2 Europeans were enslaved in North West Africa. The most recent work on the subject is that of Giles Milton entitled, White Gold. Morocco was one of major enslavers of Europeans, but this was really a matter of economic warfare, because they didn’t need European slaves, these were prisoners of war. Remember African slaves were ready available. Miltons’ book is entitled, White Gold because Europeans were worth money because Europeans tried to ransom them back as did the North Africans who wanted their countrymen back.

And no the genetic variations thing is not my theory, that's DNA science. If you know of a better theory please share it with us. And I hope you aren't questioning what I said about the so-called big three religions beginning connected to Africa as a theory? I met a Christian Arab about a week ago who is getting ready to do a documentary on the oldest continually functioning Orthodox Church, and where is it? Egypt. Perhaps the craziest thing about this Church is that there is a mosque inside(which of course was a later addition), so you have Christians and Muslims praying in the same building on a day to day basis.

By the way Happy New Year to everyone and all the best for the New Year!

Posted by: tradefair at January 9, 2007 12:28 AM