Fomenting disunity? Boo hoo. These idiots are quite capable of turning on each other for doctrinal reasons-nobody from the outside needs to foment anything. More paranoia from the cult of death.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 15, 2007 7:49 AM

This needs to be done in the U.S. If you want to fight terrorism, use your cell phones to record U.S. mosque immams. Make these tapes. Encourage Glenn Beck, or Fox News or others to obtain tapes. It will be more effective to show Islamo Fascism with a camcorder in these temples of deceit, than to invoke 800 pages of Congressional hearings on the lies and hate distributed in 80% of U.S. mosques against infidels. Let's catch these scum in flagrant delicto! This will do much to help the cause of warning people about Jihad. Man the watch. Protect your family. Record immam sermons in your neighborhood today!

Posted by: David England at January 15, 2007 7:55 AM

More Islamophobia by Channel 4. Why don't they do an expose of my local Evangelical Church down our road that I recently visited. The pastor roused the masses into a braying hysteria calling for some persons blood. One guy in the audience started speaking in tongues, though I'm sure it was in arabic. A translator said something to the effect of 'I have not come to make peace' and divide people with a two-edged sword. That's bad why don't they ever report this?

Posted by: western infidel at January 15, 2007 7:57 AM

If an Imam, his beard agitated in a cloud of static electricity, eyes glazed, head towel sweated through with anger sweat, calls out from the pulpit to condemn democracy...

... ain't that enough context to know what he meant? And, if it ain't, how about taking a gander at the Islamic scriptures Moslems observe?

That'll let ya know what what they think about democracy and freedom, not only the agitated electrical glazed sweaty Imam, but all Moslems, right down to MCB secretary general Abdul Bari said.

Secretary general?! The Abdul part is hard enough on me, but General?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 15, 2007 8:01 AM

Ahmed is my favorite Moslem prenom, though.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 15, 2007 8:02 AM

MCB said the Dispatches program "mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite to Islam commanding Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us."

Define "positively" and "peacefully" in Islamic terms.

"The producers were "resorting to the dishonest tactic of selectively quoting from some recorded speeches for the purpose of misrepresentation," MCB secretary general Abdul Bari said."

Even if there were only one such quote, that would be cause for concern. The fact is that the undercover recording, like countless other undercover recordings of this type made in mosques in western countries around the world, reveal that such hateful and treasonous comments are the norm, not the exception.

That said, Channel Four should defend itself by responding publicly to the MCB, refuting them in detail, point-by-point. It should be possible to score and analyze the contents of the transcripts, in order to determine the relative percentages of quotations of various kinds--e.g., misogynistic, treasonous, Islamic imperialist, Infidelophobic, etc. Then compare those percentages with the percentage of quotations that fit into the "be peaceful and positive toward non-Muslims" category (I'm guessing less than 5% of the total). Also find the percentage of imams recorded who made at least one quote fitting the misogynistic, or imperialist, or treasonous, or whatever negative statement, category. Then report the results to the public, in a widely-published rebuttal to the MCB claims.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 15, 2007 8:06 AM

"Then compare those percentages with the percentage of quotations that fit into the "be peaceful and positive toward non-Muslims" category (I'm guessing less than 5% of the total)."

...and I'm guessing the latter would be for da'wa purposes only.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 15, 2007 8:10 AM

They don't like it because there's nothing to gain for them now. Truth is taking over no progress for the caliphate achieved ...

Posted by: Arnie at January 15, 2007 8:48 AM

"The producers were "resorting to the dishonest tactic of selectively quoting from some recorded speeches for the purpose of misrepresentation," MCB secretary general Abdul Bari said."

"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain!"

Posted by: USBeast at January 15, 2007 8:54 AM

1. If clerics never said such things, they'd never be recorded saying them.

2. "mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite to Islam commanding Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us."

My concern about this presentation is that no one will demand that the MCB and other Muslims cite those passages of Qur'an and Sunnah which refute what the clerics have said. It's one thing to parrot the 'they're un-Islamic' mantra; it's another to prove it.

So prove it.

Posted by: PRCS at January 15, 2007 9:21 AM

"TV documentary accused of misrepresenting UK Muslims,"

So far, everything I've read about channel 4s research has failed to say anything about worshipers in these Mosques storming out in protest at what these Imans were preaching.

I suspect that what these hate-mongers were preaching was music to the ears of members of the congregation. Of course the congregants would be described by the mainstream British and American press as the "peaceful, moderate" Muslims we hear so much about. No, They don't throw bombs into subway sations or crowded buses; they just encourage hateful Imans to encourage others to commit such murderous acts.

No, no ones misrepresenting UK Muslims. If they sit through the kind of sermons channel 4 reported on, and don't protest, if they give their financial support to a Mosque that invites these kind of men to preach at their services, UK Muslims are as guilty of murder as any terrorist.
Period.

Posted by: rational at January 15, 2007 9:33 AM

the 'risible' attempt at promoting sectarianism among British Muslims will be firmly rejected

risible attempt?

nothing AMUSING about it! Face it, you've been caught out.

promoting sectarianism? WHICH muslim 'group' would you say Channel 4 is promoting? They are all the same......deceptive and destructive.

My my....their HATE has been exposed. Much like their hate for Israel and their determination NEVER to live peacefully beside them. Hopefully this will wake up the idiots (socialist groups and so-called 'christian' groups) that march with them in London, etc.

Let this be a wake up call to everyone in the West. Islam is NOT a religion of peace and you cannot trust ANY of them since lying is acceptable to them.

When such teaching is taught, the mosques need to be shut down and their preachers deported.

If Muslims do not wish to integrate into the west and live under the laws in the West, deport them back to the ME.

Muslims....if people in the West want to live under sharia law, they can move to the ME.

Posted by: The Goobs at January 15, 2007 9:34 AM

“The people who brought down those towers were Muslims and Muslims must stand up and say that is not the way of Islam. They must say that it is disgraceful. I have not heard enough condemnation from Muslim preachers”.

Margaret Thatcher

Posted by: The Goobs at January 15, 2007 9:40 AM

MCB said the Dispatches program "mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite to Islam commanding Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us."

005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Look out ... Allah commands severe punishments in this life for 'mischief'.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 15, 2007 9:41 AM

Hopefully this will wake up the idiots (socialist groups and so-called 'christian' groups) that march with them in London, etc.

Sorry.... I meant USEFUL idiots.

Posted by: The Goobs at January 15, 2007 9:43 AM

Let these bastards seethe.

What I would really like to see:

Open public readings and explanations of the Koran where meanings and historical incidents are expounded upon, and the principle of abrogation is also explained.

Televise these public readings as well, with clear shots of the moderates, and their incendiary signs when they show up.

Posted by: dgene at January 15, 2007 9:52 AM

It's time to expose Islam to the British PC crowd. If this doesn't change public opinion, then the British Empire will meet its demise...

Posted by: JohnnyPissoff at January 15, 2007 10:00 AM

Johnny....I have found the British PC crowd to be the most stubborn of PC crowds.

If they don't LIKE what they hear....they dismiss it.

Posted by: The Goobs at January 15, 2007 10:03 AM

Post by Rational: "I suspect that what these hate-mongers were preaching was music to the ears of members of the congregation."

Bingo!

Peaceful, moderate people of any belief, do not continue to attend gatherings where such vile is spewed...therfore I agree if they stay, your point is in fact true.

Posted by: sounder at January 15, 2007 10:08 AM

I wonder what the MCB will say about the revalation in court of latest batch of Mohammedans on trial for attempting to st of bombs in UK that one of them escaped UK wearing a Burka. Now if I am right that makes a Murderer and a Terrorist Bomb maker both using the Burka to escape through UK immgration recently God knows how many more of them like dressing in drag to commit crimes. Do the MCB still uphold the inaleienable rights of Mohammedan women to wear this NON religious batman outfit. Whats more how much longer can the PC MultiCulti Treehuggers and the Labour Party continue to deny the obvious and BAN THE BURKA NOW.

Posted by: Realist at January 15, 2007 10:10 AM

Readers comments from C4 wb site:

Posted at 01:41 PM, 15/01/2007

Yet again Channel 4 delves in the depths of Islamophobia. All the Abrahimic religions condemn homosexuality as a major sin. When are you going to send undercover reporters to synagogues and churches and ask their views on taboo issues? I won't hold by breath on that ever happening.

Report this comment »

Posted at 12:11 AM, 15/01/2007

This programme further stereotypes the Muslim community. It seems to highlight ill conceived ideas of few "so called muslims" as Islam, which is completely false. In the interest of social harmony, I strongly urge C4 to make and air programmes that capture the essence of Islam, i.e. Peace, Tolerence and Harmony with everyone, irrespective of their religion, race, sex or colour.

Report this comment »

Posted at 09:11 PM, 14/01/2007

I am a muslim living in the UK, and I strongly feel that Dispatches on this particularly issue should not have been shown, as I feel this is just more propaganda against the muslims living in the UK, and will only accumulate more hatred and racism towards muslims. I go to mosques, including Green Lane Mosque, and have seen no such thing as teaching religious hatred there.

Report this comment »

Posted at 08:53 PM, 14/01/2007

Please explain to me exactly what your agenda is? When someone goes undercover that in itself implies you are looking for mischief either one that is genuine or if not taken out of context and presented as such. You must realise the repurcussions of your actions result in a paranoid society which turns and attacks the vulnurable.

Report this comment »

Posted at 01:21 PM, 14/01/2007

Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance and perhaps Channel 4 like others do not see the positive activites of UKIM and others for promoting inter-faith integration. Events like Mosque open days, Islam Taster days,Islam Awareness week, hospital visits, school visits and other community initiatives do not even get mentioned anywhere in the media. What did Channel 4 do against the undercover activities of BNP last year?

Report this comment

Says it all, really. Who writes this stuff?

Posted by: pr126 at January 15, 2007 10:12 AM

Maybe CH4 realised that their alternative Muslim speech on Christmas day, and the liberal wet dream drama about George Bush being killed has earned them less viewers than they thought.

Posted by: Mert at January 15, 2007 10:12 AM

Western infidel said :

More Islamophobia by Channel 4. Why don't they do an expose of my local Evangelical Church down our road that I recently visited. The pastor roused the masses into a braying hysteria calling for some persons blood. One guy in the audience started speaking in tongues, though I'm sure it was in arabic. A translator said something to the effect of 'I have not come to make peace' and divide people with a two-edged sword. That's bad why don't they ever report this?

What are you trying to say with the above write up?
If you don't understand, please don't write!!
This website is about "jihad"!

Posted by: robusta at January 15, 2007 10:13 AM

rational writes:

"So far, everything I've read about channel 4s research has failed to say anything about worshipers in these Mosques storming out in protest at what these Imans were preaching."

Channel 4 typically leans Left anyway.

I'm sure they would have loved to report that these fiery imams were preaching to empty pews, with the mosques nearly empty, because most Muslims had refused to attend their sermons. But since they didn't, we can infer those mosques were full of Muslims sitting there, nodding, passively absorbing this hate right into their brains.

Posted by: Steven L. at January 15, 2007 10:13 AM

Archimedes posted an excellent idea about getting a transcript of a mosque "sermon" and analyzing it -- researchers use "content analysis" all the time. Someone could even do a comparative analysis from another religion so as to highlight the differences. (Frankly, after viewing "sermons" recorded inside mosques -- from organizations such as MEMRI -- there seems to be very, very little by way of "ethical content" in what's preached at mosques. I don't hear exhortations for the betterment of the human condition -- just lots of "kill the infidel!")

Posted by: J.S. at January 15, 2007 10:14 AM

http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1349
We are dealing with the missing link here, you know...

Posted by: eloivsdiablo at January 15, 2007 10:18 AM

“This programme further stereotypes the Muslim community”

C:\Documents and Settings\Rob\Desktop\inlinePhoto.htm

Maybe the Muslim community doesn't need stereotyping by Channel 4?

Posted by: Mert at January 15, 2007 10:21 AM

A similar story from Rome (circa 2003) about the mosque in Rome -- the largest mosque in Europe. An Italian Muslim (Magdi Allam, vetted by Hugh Fitzgerald *) who knows Arabic attended a particular sermon, of June 6, 2003, and reported what he heard for the Italian newspaper "La Repubblica".

Typical exhortations made by the Imam that day were the following:

"O Allah, grant victory to the Islamic fighters in Palestine, Chechnya, and elsewhere in the world! O Allah, destroy the homes of the enemies of Islam! O Allah, help us to annihilate the enemies of Islam! O Allah, make firm everywhere the voice of the nation of Islam!"

The Imam was also interviewed by Magdi Allam, who asked him about the terrorists who blow themselves up in order to kill Jews, to which the Imam responded:

"From the Islamic point of view, there is no doubt that the operations by the mujahidin against the Jews in Palestine are legitimate. They are acts of martyrdom, and their authors are martyrs for Islam, because all of Palestine is a ´Dar al-Harb,´ a war zone; because all of Jewish society is illegally occupying a Muslim land."

The imam of the Rome mosque [was] Abdel-Samie Mahmoud Ibrahim Moussa, 32, an Egyptian. He doesn´t understand Italian, and speaks Arabic with a Nile delta accent. Magdi Allam wrote, in a second article for "La Repubblica" on June 8:

"He is the true product of a culture and an ideology that now dominate the Muslim university of Al Azhar, a sort of Vatican of Sunni Islam. But his is by no means an isolated case. Other Muslim spokesmen in Italy, linked with the Muslim Brotherhood and with radical currents of thought, have communicated their understanding and solidarity to the imam of Rome. The real problem is that most mosques are occupied by fundamentalist international networks. [...] The previous imam of the Rome mosque, sheikh Mahmoud Hammad Sheweita, feared for his bodily safety when he condemned the suicide attacks, thereby aligning himself against believers with radical tendencies.

http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=6953&eng=y

* [Hugh Fitzgerald wrote back in 2004:] "...the brilliantly acute Magdi Allam (a kind of Italian version of Fouad Ajami). He, and others like him, who speak and write from their own experiences within the world of Islam, are valuable allies in Europe against the Jihad, and if the American government has any sense, it will promote the works and careers of such people."

http://jihadwatch.org//dhimmiwatch/archives/001452.php

Posted by: remote_control at January 15, 2007 10:21 AM

Oh hell,

Ignore that last post, I was trying to add a picture and it all went tits up.

Sorry!

Posted by: Mert at January 15, 2007 10:22 AM

J.S - check out this Op-Ed piece comparing the US Constitution to Sharia... it's similar to your idea of doing an compare/contrast article with Islam and other 'religions'. I wrote it up.

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=953

I think Archimedes' idea and using Memri.org transcripts would be an excellent use of the powers of the Internet.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 15, 2007 10:35 AM

Hopefully, this documentary has the desired effects.

Unfortuantely, my guess is the Tony Blair will now push for legislation!

Legislation that will preclude any more such documentaries from ever being made.

(Re-read his article in Foreign Affairs then show me where I'm wrong.)

I'll wager he will sprinkle some words such as "intolerance," "hate," and "islamophobia" into his introduction for such expected legislation.

I've learned to expect nothing but lunacy and self-destructive insanity from what was once "England."

Posted by: witness at January 15, 2007 10:37 AM

Read CAIR's action page.
They are really mad that people are writing their newspaper editors, and Glenn Beck speaks his mind.
"Make them shut up!"
http://www.cair-net.org/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 15, 2007 10:43 AM

C2,

I see you left a message to the 'brain surgeon' at that 'butt sniffer' website.

Those folks are real whackjobs.

Posted by: PRCS at January 15, 2007 10:47 AM

Maybe it was computer generated animation, trick photography, voice-overs, creative editing, bad lighting, etc. The Religion of Peace would never promote violence or hate. Hollywood (which is controlled by the Joooz) must have been behind this science fiction fantasy.

Posted by: Xero G at January 15, 2007 10:51 AM

A documentary, being screened Monday, goes undercover at mosques to find what it in its advance publicity are "preachers condemning integration into British society, condemning democracy and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers." MCB said the Dispatches program "mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite to Islam commanding Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us."

-------

Arabic News needs a good translator. The above two sentences are incomprehensible. They're run-on sentences lacking proper punctuation. It was hard to know what they were complaining about. The second sentence makes it sound like key institutions were teaching the opposite of Islam, that commanding Muslims to deal positively with the world around them was not Islamic.
Of course that wasn't what they meant, but that's why they need a better translator.

Posted by: PMK at January 15, 2007 10:52 AM

"Their aim is to attach guilt by association. This continuing demonization of British Muslims and the risible attempt at promoting sectarianism among British Muslims will be firmly rejected," Bari said.

------

Guilt by association is exactly what they attach to everyone who isn't a Muslim and who supports the freedom of the state of Israel. Muslims who work with Westerners are considered not good Muslims BECAUSE they associate with infidels.
Has this person ever said word one about the 7/7 bombers or those who plotted to attack airliners?

Posted by: PMK at January 15, 2007 10:55 AM

I urge everyone that can to watch. The trailers alone are most illuminating.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at January 15, 2007 10:56 AM

Totally off topic, but is there a copy of the Koran that has verses that have been abrogated crossed out? Rather than cutting such verses out of the document entirely, it would be revealing to see what the current version of the Koran really is, compared to what it once was.

Posted by: PMK at January 15, 2007 10:58 AM

If you want to have fun next time at the bookstores go grab a copy of the koran and put some of them in the occult sections, than some in the crime sections, and others in the witchcraft aisle.
I put some next to the nudie mags areas.
Muslims will love it.

That novel of murder, hate, and wickedness does not deserve any respect.

Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at January 15, 2007 11:03 AM

Carolyn2: It is interesting that CAIR really wants Glenn Beck silenced. Beck has not spoken out against peaceful muslims, only the extremists, so far, so if CAIR is so upset about speaking out against extremists, we now know CAIRs position on extremism don't we?

Posted by: sounder at January 15, 2007 11:05 AM

...mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite to Islam commanding Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us.

Translation into English:

who are you going to believe? us or your lying eyes?

Posted by: ontheleftcoast at January 15, 2007 11:26 AM

Knock down the mosque walls so they can always be seen and heard by the public, and there won't be any concerns about what they are doing in secret in there.

Posted by: Catawhumpus at January 15, 2007 11:51 AM

I have seen a few accusations here that Ch4 are
Islamophobic , rubbish nothing could be further from the truth...i have always regarded them as pro Islam.
I am surprised they are actually showing this
programme.
As for muslim stereotyping nearly every other
day there are atrocities committed by MUSLIMS
and plotters tried for planning atrocities who are
,...yes youv`e guessed it MUSLIMS!
The only ones who are guilty of stereotyping muslims are MUSLIMS.
Looking for muslims shouting "...not in my name"
don`t hold your breath...sheep and sheepdogs.
BAAAAAH BAAAAAH BAAAAAH !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at January 15, 2007 11:57 AM

This from the same channel that had a niqab'ed Mohammedan whore deliver their Christmas address?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 15, 2007 12:15 PM

"Carolyn2: It is interesting that CAIR really wants Glenn Beck silenced. Beck has not spoken out against peaceful muslims, only the extremists, so far, so if CAIR is so upset about speaking out against extremists, we now know CAIRs position on extremism don't we?"
Posted by: sounder at January 15, 2007 11:05 AM

CAIR is consistent in their opinion that non-Muslims should never be allowed nor are they qualified to discuss Islam in any way.

Be careful with Beck, sounder. He is from the point of view that Islam is not evil, and the few wackos that mean us harm are just that, a few wackos, who have managed to hijack Islam.

Posted by: awake at January 15, 2007 12:27 PM

Sounder,

Below is the transcript link to the only Beck show that mettered, in my opinion, in case you missed it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/11/gb.01.html

Posted by: awake at January 15, 2007 12:34 PM

Robusta:

'This website is about "jihad"!'

Indeed it is and may I say before you comment to read, read again and ruminate.

Posted by: western infidel at January 15, 2007 12:36 PM

A little off topic.

I watched a show on FOX 51 cable network last night. I don't watch much of their stuff but someone sent me there.

It was called 24. Typical hollywood stuff about terrorists attacking here in the US (and we know that will never happen).

Pretty typical except for the point that the nice little Muslim Teenager across the street is probably a Jihadist.
My husband said "I'm suprised that Muslim watchdog bunch let them air this!

I can't beleive a TV show ouwld air such Islamaphobia. (sarcasm off)

Frankly it was a pretty good two hours. It's on again tonite @ 8PM.

Posted by: auntbea at January 15, 2007 12:42 PM

Unless i'm being slow here, the following should apply.

If Channel 4 "mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite to Islam commanding Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us."

Then, I interpret that sentence as meaning that these key muslim institutions teach an iSlam that commands muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around them.

So they will have no trouble answering all your emails asking them where in the koran it promotes this tolerant behaviour...

http://www.mcb.org.uk/email_mcb.php

Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at January 15, 2007 12:45 PM

awake, Beck's comments (thanks for the link) confirm my thoughts. If Beck is speaking out only against extremists (although he is missing the bigger picture, I agree with you), and for that CAIR wants to silence him then CAIR = Pro-Extremism! Their true colors shine now.

Posted by: sounder at January 15, 2007 12:55 PM

A friendly note from a German to the moslems in England: If the TV programming in England is not to your liking then please feel free to vote with your FEET.. and leave.

And please be reminded that the British can go from Chamberlain to Churchill in a New York Minute :-) So try not to piss them off too much with your constant whining and leeching.

Speaking on behalf of all Western countries: "We don't need walls to keep our people in."

If anything we need walls to keep the unsavories OUT.

Can someone in England catch this show on TiVo and put it on Youtube or somewhere so that those of us who are outside of broadcast range can also "enjoy" this?

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 15, 2007 12:58 PM

sounder,

Agreed. CAIR does not sit idly by and allow anyone infidel to discuss Isalm in any way. There is not one "moderate" bone in all of CAIR's collective body.

auntbea,

I taped 24 last night. I haven't watched since the first season. If that statement about the Muslim is true, then I am quite surprised as well. it will most assuredly be abrogated from the dialogue when this season's DVD collection is released in the US.

Posted by: awake at January 15, 2007 1:02 PM

I followed the link to Grannyweatherwax's link and then decided to mosey on over to the discussion forum.

That thread is most enlightening. The 'peaceful' agitators are all but quoting verses 5:32 and 5:33.
Veiled threats indeed.

For instance, a New Member choosing a nic worth noting: wastingmylifeaway

"Re: Chanel Four Dispatches Programme, A pre-determined agenda to create mischief".

Another comment by Islam4real states:

quite clearly are jeopardizing the opportunities and gateways to peace and prosperity of the British society, by labeling a democratic organization that is UKIM. We have worked extremely hard in ensuring that are mosques teach the true Islam laid down for us.

AHEM, WE'VE NOTICED

Posted by: justamomof4 at January 15, 2007 1:08 PM

I urge everyone that can to watch. The trailers alone are most illuminating.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax

If you're in broadcast range.. will you tape it?

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 15, 2007 1:11 PM

My husband said "I'm suprised that Muslim watchdog bunch let them air this!

That was probably a re-run of a 24 thread from season before last.

If I'm right (i.e., that what you saw is not part of the new 24 season), what happened was that CAIR did complain and level threats, the network folded, and the series star, Keifer Sutherland, gave a tearful apology during a special intro a couple of episodes later.

By the season's end, the Moslem activists (aka, the terrorists) were promptly replaced by a blond haired blue eyed former US military guy withi a grudge against the USA. He's the one who... whoops, don't wanna give away the season's denouement.

Your husband is a wise man.

For my part, since turning off my TV on Keifer's tearful face, I haven't watched 24 since.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 15, 2007 1:14 PM

If you want to have fun next time at the bookstores go grab a copy of the koran and put some of them in the occult sections, than some in the crime sections, and others in the witchcraft aisle.
I put some next to the nudie mags areas.
Muslims will love it.

That novel of murder, hate, and wickedness does not deserve any respect.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader

GREAT idea.. but be careful you don't get caught on a store-cam. The MSM would *pounce* on something like that.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 15, 2007 1:15 PM

"Moderate Muslims" are the enablers of the militant Muslims. They take part in the demographic Jihad and support the militants via phony charities and being an anti-American population to blend into, to hide in. Just look at the stupid Somalis in Minnesota demonstrating in support of the Jihad armies in Somalia

Muslims are the worst possible immigrants. They will always be dissidents and form a fifth column because their loyalty is to the Ummah. Not to the USA, Canada, Australia or any European nation they worm their way into

Posted by: dennisw at January 15, 2007 1:16 PM

Well at least this UK news group went undercover to "record" the news as is. Why weren't all these Moslems protesting when the BBC went undercover to gather news on the BNP and then use that gathered news to prosecute Nick Griffin? How would they like it if these clerics were tried for promoting hate and sedition against Britain.

In America the news boys do it differently. They place Moslems at NASCAR venues in attempting to "create" the news that mainstream Americans are nothing more thAn bigoted rednecks. Moslems must only be presented in the MSM as peace loving folks who have been misunderstood.

Posted by: Briars at January 15, 2007 1:25 PM

I haven't got the technical know how to get it onto youtube. But there is an on-line simulcast which requires registration, so if anybody does know how to copy and upload it you will be doing a sterling service.
:-)

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at January 15, 2007 1:26 PM

"For my part, since turning off my TV on Keifer's tearful face, I haven't watched 24 since."
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 15, 2007 01:14 PM

Agreed, yet I left well before the tearful apology for other reasons. But last night WAS the season premiere. And if auntbea is correct, then there appears to be a change of position from FOX.

Posted by: awake at January 15, 2007 1:29 PM

Islamacists love the self-congratulatory attitude westerners have about their tolerance for migration and how they constantly reassure themselves that most Muslims are “moderate”. This allows so much of this stealth Jihad in our midst to continue while cries of “racism” & “Islamophobia” result when anyone points it out. But despite any ranting about this Muslim figure their immigration & fertility rate will win for them in the long run – unless there are severe restrictions on Muslim immigration.
THIS IS WHAT IS NEEDED:
SEVERE RESTRICTIONS ON MUSLIM IMMIGRATION – NOTHING ELSE REALLY MATTERS IN THE LONG RUN.

British people not afflicted with suicidal naiveté ought to be screaming at their politicians for this – or bringing in a party that will act decisively on this issue.

Posted by: FM at January 15, 2007 2:01 PM

awake, Beck's comments (thanks for the link) confirm my thoughts. If Beck is speaking out only against extremists (although he is missing the bigger picture, I agree with you), and for that CAIR wants to silence him then CAIR = Pro-Extremism! Their true colors shine now.
Posted by: sounder

Beck may be doing what he feels he can - I mean he is always one show away from being fired.

What he's been doing so far is drawing reactions from the vermin.

He needs to be the levelheaded one - not them. THEY enjoy cover courtesy of our very own MSMedia.

You can't go on TV and have a show that would reflect what Robert and Hugh are saying here - much less what some of us others are saying.

Just like the Pope. And he said practically nothing and look at the reaction he drew. The enemy knows who among us has influence and they castigate and persecute us accordingly.

Beck has to stay just enough under the radar where he doesn't draw all the flak. This is the first time EVER I've heard of islam being discussed that honestly on ANY TV or cable media outlet.

On the other hand he has to say enough to be credible for folks like us or his show is useless. I tend to give him a chance and let's see where he is in a year from now.

He does noone any good sipping lemonade on a beach somewhere staring at the ocean... a pink slip in his hand.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 15, 2007 2:05 PM

Hmmm typical Muslim outrage over fomenting disuinty which means they are all united "moderate" to radical nut case all to violence.
Muslims are not very bright in this public statement blunder.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at January 15, 2007 2:13 PM

Talk about misrepresentation:

Patriarch: Islam a `religion of peace`

Ummah News Links

Posted by: ummahnewslinks at January 15, 2007 2:36 PM

"Beck has to stay just enough under the radar where he doesn't draw all the flak. This is the first time EVER I've heard of islam being discussed that honestly on ANY TV or cable media outlet."
Posted by: MeanieMo at January 15, 2007 02:05 PM

MeanieMo,

Well, I hope you are right, but I don't think he will prove to of any value in the war against Islam. Read the transcript I attached. He framed his opinion like this was HIS big decision, contrary to the better judgement of his producers. If CAIR is already trying to silence him and his opinion that radical Islamists are the minority exception, not the majority rule of "moderate" Muslims, just how long can he stay under the radar??

Posted by: awake at January 15, 2007 2:44 PM

From BlackBritain.co.uk: A Muslim mosque in Birmingham which features in Dispatches at 8pm tonight has accused Channel 4 of "creating mischief"...

"Creating Mischief". Familiar wording... Qur'an 5:33

Posted by: Null at January 15, 2007 2:53 PM

Alarmed Pig Farmer said

By the season's end, the Moslem activists (aka, the terrorists) were promptly replaced by a blond haired blue eyed former US military guy withi a grudge against the USA.

I didn't want to spoil the "surprise" ending of this season of 24, but APF has already let the cat out of the bag.

Prepare to be "shocked" when it turns out that, instead of Muslims, the terrorists are evil (vaguely Christian?) white men who mischeiviously laid a trail of evidence to frame the innocent and peace-loving Muslims. Isn't that a mind-blower? Bet you've never seen that plot device before.

The Muslim bomber shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before detonating? Are you sure? Maybe it was a holographic image superimposed over his face, or an undetectable latex mask, and a recorded message, meant to throw the investigators off the trail. Maybe the evil (vaguely Christian?) white men kidnapped his family and made him do it. Or maybe it was a mass hallucination through some aerosol pharmacological agent, or some sort of brain-wave transmitter, that placed the idea in the witnesses minds that they saw a Muslim yelling "Allahu Akbar". Cause that's the sort of thing we evil (vaguely Christian?) white men do in our free time.

Sorry, didn't mean to spoil the "surprise".

Posted by: special_guest at January 15, 2007 2:56 PM

"Arabic News needs a good translator. The above two sentences are incomprehensible. They're run-on sentences lacking proper punctuation. It was hard to know what they were complaining about."

Posted by PMK

Get Hugh to translate!

Posted by: hierophant at January 15, 2007 2:57 PM

They haven't canceled it yet?

And Jack Bauer is my favorite. Even if it isn't exactly accurate. How can Hollywood portray the total truth? The majority don't believe it yet.

I loved the line " It's been going on for a long time, you just haven't been paying attention." I wish I had taped it so I could be sure I was accurate. I would have it printed on stuff.

Posted by: Borg at January 15, 2007 3:24 PM

Descendants from Apes:

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog.cfm

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at January 15, 2007 3:41 PM

I'm not sure why Glenn Beck seems to get bad press from many people. His show, at times, is a breathe of fresh air. (he needs to drop that: I'm only a rodeo clown bit) If people are expecting to see a hour long (Mon-Fri) show on Islamic terrorists --done without any apologies-- then I don't think you are ever going to see one.

I'm sure he gets it, but his show must have some restrictions place on it by management who must answer to those buying commercial time regardless of what he has stated.

Yes, I read the posted transcript (actually saw the show) - and quite frankly I can live with that if that keeps him on the air broadcasting these type segments.

Did anyone see his hour long show called "Exposed: The Extreme Agenda?"

If not, you can download it from the MsUnderestimated Web site.

Posted by: Webler at January 15, 2007 3:43 PM

Thank you CH4 , the lies and duplicity of Islam
were totally exposed...the cult was utterly discredited.
Even when they are caught bang to rights they try
to lie their way out of it , squirming like rats trapped in a barrel.
Or they squeal..."out of context...out of context"
Obviously the knowledge we infidels gain about
Muhammad , especially the paedophilia disturbs them.
I hope the snivelling traitor Blair watched this
if not he should be forced to...mosques and thier
preachers he personally praised for promoting
inter-faith co-operation...cretin.
The best recruitment programme for the BNP i`ve
seen yet.
This cult has no place in a civilized democracy !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at January 15, 2007 4:02 PM

Alas, years spent in Saudi have taught me that for Wahabi and like-minded Muslims, words mean what they want them to mean at the time. If they say somthing, it's true then. So it is quite possible for them to preach hatred and Jihad, call Jews pigs and call for the death of Christians in a documentary, and then claim they did nothing of the sort, and that they have been misquoted, without any feeling of shame or guilt.

You see-

what a Kuffar says is AUTOMATICALLY untrue.

Posted by: beachhutman at January 15, 2007 4:19 PM

Pathetic , from >>>>>

http://www.mcb.org.uk/article_detail.php?article=announcement-613

From the latest transcript it is clear that Monday's heavily hyped 'Dispatches' is an attempt to forment sectarian divisions among British Muslims and misrepresent some leading UK Muslim institutions, including the Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith, the London Islamic Cultural Centre and the UK Islamic Mission.
“Islam commands Muslims to deal positively and peacefully with those around us. These transcripts show that the programme makers have mischievously tried to prove that key Muslim institutions are teaching the exact opposite by resorting to the dishonest tactic of selectively quoting from some recorded speeches for the purpose of misrepresentation. Their aim is to attach guilt by association. This continuing demonisation of British Muslims and the risible attempt at promoting sectarianism among British Muslims will be firmly rejected,” said Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain.
At the same time, the Muslim Council of Britain urges all Muslim institutions to be vigilant and ensure that their premises are not allowed to be abused by those who are intent on pursuing divisive agendas. Unacceptable and inflammatory language can never be accepted from Muslim speakers either during talks or on recorded DVDs. It is vital that the sanctity of mosques and Islamic centres is maintained at all times and an Islamic code of conduct upheld.

In other words..."damn , weve bin rumbled!"

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at January 15, 2007 4:30 PM

C4's Dispatches program was'nt too far from the usual dhimmi rubbish.

1) It was portrayed as the usual tiny minority of extremists (although far from as vehemently as normal)

2) They failed to tie anything asserted by the preachers to Islamic texts, the views of the preachers were simply portrayed as their own personal views. Their views on women/ homosexuals/ kuffars/ supremacism/ sharia etc etc were the sorts of things we see on this site everyday, so why is it people like Robert Spencer can tie these views heavily into Islamic texts, and C4 can't (won't)?

But still, far more enlightening than the usual R.O.P crap.

Posted by: Uriel Septim at January 15, 2007 4:50 PM

I hope PC World watch this and realize. That their agenda of multiculturalism and integration is now officially abrogated.

Muslims and Kuffars are like oil and water.

If I have to hear one more British politician talk about the RoP or a battle of Hearts and Minds(i.e. Brown's latest patter).I will scream or failing that I will listen to the excellent Stuck Mojo CD at full volume.

Posted by: raz at January 15, 2007 5:00 PM

Webler, and others,

After watching this, you will realize why Glen Beck gets, and deserves, bad press:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3vENc0YqSM

Posted by: PRCS at January 15, 2007 5:10 PM

Some people say that advertisements dont work, but if they didnt, commercial companies would not pay top dollar to advertise.

And so it is with these Islamic clerics - if there was no ready ear or market for their sales pitch, they would'nt exist.

Posted by: DP111 at January 15, 2007 5:18 PM

From the comments
I am a muslim living in the UK,

That is how I see Muslims in the West- just living here, with no allegiance to the country that they are in.

Posted by: DP111 at January 15, 2007 5:25 PM

Notes

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at January 15, 2007 5:36 PM

PRCS

After watching this, you will realize why Glen Beck gets, and deserves, bad press:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3vENc0YqSM

Doesn't change my opinion of Glenn Beck or the Glenn Beck show.

I've read ever argument about the pros and cons of this topic, and to me, it is still a non-issue.

This, in my humble opinion, is one of the fundamental flaws of the right's strategy. Its all or nothing attitude. You simply are not going to change those opposing opinions by constantly beating them over the head. The way I see the path is to feed them bite size pieces.

Having the Glenn Beck show on is doing just that.

Posted by: Webler at January 15, 2007 5:36 PM

Hi,
the show is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x5K60u9_84

I found the link on the Faith Freedom forum,haven't watched it yet though,
greetings from the continent,

Posted by: whiteelefant at January 15, 2007 5:41 PM

Ooups,
that was the wrong show, sorry

Posted by: whiteelefant at January 15, 2007 5:43 PM

These zombies just hate it when the truth comes out.The funny part is that all you have to do is look and listen and they will provide all the truth you need.

Any zombie that opens thier mouths and utters a word can be seen through,they aren't even bright enough to lie well.

The only thing i agree with zombies on is that islam is the answer,however we differ in how it is the answer.They see it as solving the worlds woes ( how still escapes me ),i on the other hand feel that once it is decimated and obliterated into nothingness the world will be a far brighter and better place.

As far as the "brave heroes" of islam go ,we are still waiting to go to the next level.Stop the yaking and go for the gold there are those that tire of waiting.The end of islam is soon to be at an end.

An islamic empire is just a zombie pipedream,put down the crack pipes and join the rest of humanity in reality before your castles in the sky come crashing to the earth.

Also to the iranian windbags ...SHUT UP!
People complain that the west has lost it's credibility well the iranian regime has never had one "iota" of any.

Notice i used imanutajobas' (iranian pres.)favorite word "iota",he likes to use that little atomic word a lot,doesn't he?

Enough already these pukes deserve no more commenting on,they are useless,they have no future.....except the end of thiers.

Another day gone ,another day without the voice of reasoning (moderates ),only the words of sympathizers and apologists.The clock has lost more of the little precious time for the horde.Oh how i pity them.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at January 15, 2007 5:57 PM

Can somebody tell me, please, why we have decided as a civilization to commit suicide? I don't want to go, but there are others among us who are running headlong with scizzors, who are playing with poison and who rival the emperor with no clothes on for denial about what is actually going on here. We are being bested by a group that's only claim to fame is that they know how to die and they know how to use our laws and rules to make mischief and validate their victimhood? Its an embarassment.

Look at what happened in Somalia in the past couple of weeks. The cowards couldn't take it so they folded like a house of cards and high tailed it outta' there. Are we actually going to stand by, in countries that have had the highest standard of living for the most people in the history of the world and cave in to a bunch of drooling neanderthals who count hatred and control as the virtues of all virtues? The hell you say.

It is time to forget our manners and tell the truth when some useful idiot goes into their trance and recites the "Islam is a religion of peace" mantra. Time to embarass them and stop them in their tracks. Ask them where it says that in the Koran; ask them when and how much of the Koran they've read; ask them why they think Islam is a religion of peace when girls are being kidnapped and forced to convert in Egypt, when girls are being murdered by their brothers for going to school in the UK or Germany, when girls are being circumcised in the United States, all sanctioned by the Koran. Show them the video from You Tube of Jihad 101, you know, the one where guys are beating themselves on the heads with swords and blood is everywhere, where Islamists are pushing their own people, blindfolded and hands tied behind their backs, off 2-story buildings, where you can watch a slow slicing through some poor guys neck as he is having his head cut off, while another man sits on his back to hold him down. Again, all sanctioned by the Koran. You know, the Koran, the holy book for the religion of peace?

Have we lost our fucking minds? Say no to this, often and loudly. And push aside any brainwashed automaton who gets in the way with their religion of peace speeches. We don't have time to argue with them. We've got this year to nip CAIR in the bud or we will have no rest, not for the rest of my life, anyway.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 15, 2007 5:59 PM

PRCS,
Sometimes I just can't help myself. :)
That "real smart guy" said people who criticize islam probably have never read any of the texts, ho boy, red flag. It is the reading of the texts that convinced me of the evil nature of islam.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at January 15, 2007 6:20 PM

"Can somebody tell me, please, why we have decided as a civilization to commit suicide?"

Why are Jihad Watchers still asking this question? Are you all blind to the forest for the trees? Do you think the Western world must think like you guys do? Do you think PC is just a passing fancy, an abnormal crotchet, a scum of the cream of elites on top of a vast kettle of ordinary healthy milk being suppressed from cooking normally and contributing to the meal, suppressed by dastardly elitist chefs ?

I am more amazed at the myopia of Jihad Watchers as they periodically bump into the gigantic furniture of PC and scratch their heads and shake their fists at invisible "elites", than I am at that gigantic furniture itself and its long-standing intrusion on our living room -- and the millions of ordinary couch potatoes who have bought it and accomodated themselves to it for over two generations now.

Remember what PC does to the Problem of Islam: it effectively and effortlessly detaches

1) Islam + the vast majority of Muslims

from

2) any bad things that come out of Islam.

Once this surgical mechanism is in place, it doesn't matter how much bad stuff comes out of Islam, since it will always be only an "extremist minority" causing it, whose motives are unrelated to Islam itself + the vast majority of Muslims. This mechanism is the norm in the West.

You Jihad Watchers instantly make the connection between bad stuff coming out of Islam, and Islam itself + the vast majority of Muslims. No such connection is possible, no such connection is thinkable, for the vast majority of Westerners, as long as PC rules the brainwaves.

Posted by: remote_control at January 15, 2007 6:21 PM

Webler,

The first thing for the 'Beck's' of the world to do is to quit presenting people with my point of view as fearful bigots and to instead confront 'them' with the facts.

His presentation, in that video, perpetuates the myth of 'good' Islam, and I have no reason to believe that he doesn't believe that himself.

I was initially awed by his forthright presentations concerning Islam, and I used to think that 'bite size pieces' was the way to go, too. But, no more.

If there had been no large-scale Muslim immigration in the first place, Ellison would likely not be a Muslim. Beck doesn't 'get it' and is misstating the issue. He's also clueless about Qur'an 5:44 and 5:45 and why Ellison's little stunt is merely a continuation of his personal hypocrisy.

I could go on.

Sorry, but you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Posted by: PRCS at January 15, 2007 6:36 PM

Remote Control,

I don't know who you think you are talking to. The myopia is not with Jihad Watchers. Jihad Watchers have successfully risen above the PC B.S. to see the forest for the trees. We are not the ones who don't "get it".

We are not the ones who voted for a PC culture. But we are the ones that are left to try and defend against this insanity and combat it effectively while being undermined at every turn.

It is interesting to note that as Christianity has receded in the western world, the PC mentality has blossomed and flourished. And now where Christianity is less Islam is becoming more and more. Was that by design or just a huge unforeseen accident when we threw the baby out with the bathwater? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 15, 2007 6:52 PM

he show is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x5K60u9_84

I found the link on the Faith Freedom forum,haven't watched it yet though,
greetings from the continent,
Posted by: whiteelefant at January 15, 2007 05:41 PM

This show appears not to be the same that is described in this web-log. I was not impressed much that the British journalist John Snow didn't dig deep into the subject. He should have really compared the British Muslims to what's described in the Koran. They ain’t different.

It is also interesting that he showed BMs what appears to be on high moral grounds compare to the British way of life. I guess he ought to have done some digging and he should have been showing how sexually pervert these people really are and follow an original pervert called Mohamad. He should have showed the very high percentage of hits on pervert sexual internet sites are scored in the Muslim countries compare to the free world.

One point that he made clear Muslims and Western way of life are two very different and follow conflicting paths. Hence whether we like it or not, we have invited a monstrous of a religion which is here to stay to fight us and destroy us till the eternity.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at January 15, 2007 7:21 PM

Granny Weatherwax(added to her notes above)

"and a ginger headed Englishman whose Islamic name I didn’t catch both said that this Wahabi school of Islam is contrary to “traditional moderate Islam”

His name is ABDAL-HAKIM MURAD. He is a white Muslim convert and a senior lecture in Islamic Studies at Cambridge University.
Which is one of the top academic institutions in the UK. It's good to know that they sought the opinions of "experts" on the RoP.

The program tries to apologise for Wahabism. I am not buying this agrument as I believe that the moderates are now a tiny minority of Muslims in the UK.

Posted by: raz at January 15, 2007 7:25 PM

Re: Muslim Council of Britain fuming over mosque documentary

Islam permits deception. It is unique in that regard among the major belief-systems. Maybe Jesus is right that all deception "comes from the evil one".

Posted by: Frank at January 15, 2007 7:38 PM

You Jihad Watchers instantly make the connection between bad stuff coming out of Islam, and Islam itself + the vast majority of Muslims. No such connection is possible, no such connection is thinkable, for the vast majority of Westerners, as long as PC rules the brainwaves. Posted by: remote_control

remote

I hate to be a fatalist, but these days, I think that the best thing to come out of all these would be major terrorist attacks that would take out as many of these dhimmis/useful idiots as possible - and I dont care where. I never thought I'd root for terror to be successful, but I am past the point where I'd say God forbid. Reason: I no longer see how the PC desease can be eradicated without another major attack, on the magnitude of 9/11, but this time taking place and downing as many political and media leaders and PC denizens with it, and not just here, but worldwide. The backlash that would then result would hopefully be unprecedented.

If that doesn't happen, we might as well have a betting pool on when the entire world would go Islamic. My bet - 2050.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 15, 2007 8:06 PM

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSFbhIG-sk

Posted by: kasper1062 at January 15, 2007 8:16 PM

Infidel Pride,

Unfortunately, you are probably correct. When cancer metastasizes over a large part of the body, many times it takes invasive surgery to get rid of it. We are at a point now where the PC thing as well as the Islamic thing are way out of control.

The link from white elephant at 5:41pm is sobering in uncovering the thought process of British Muslims. It is mostly the young Islamists who embrace what they call religion but what we would call radicalism. They use the British University system to get an education and THEN embrace radical Islam. The thing that gets me, and this is a separate issue as to whether the PC tone of our society lets them get away with it, is that they believe they have all the answers, they believe they know what is best for all of us and they believe that because they think they are right, they have the right AS WELL AS THE OBLIGATION to enforce their beliefs on the rest of us. I think this is an important distinction because I couldn't get why someone who has lived in a country that enforces and brutalizes the people with Sharia law would come to a safe place and then try and recreate that same oppression that they fled. That's not to say that all middle aged Muslims are anti-Sharia. It just makes more sense that young, idealistic Muslims who've never lived under that kind of oppression can delude themselves into thinking it's a wonderful system and that we'd all be better off living with it as the law of the land.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 15, 2007 8:25 PM

Off topic from Serbia:

Rights Group Scolds Serbia Over Muslims

Ummah News Links

Posted by: ummahnewslinks at January 15, 2007 8:29 PM

Ummah,

Good link. And what about the rest of us that like pork? Shouldn't Muslims "introduce the respect of cultural and religious differences of all citizens in Serbia?"

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 15, 2007 8:46 PM

Isabellathecrusader,

"I don't know who you think you are talking to. The myopia is not with Jihad Watchers. Jihad Watchers have successfully risen above the PC B.S. to see the forest for the trees."

There are two different myopias out there:

1) the PC myopia that can't see the Problem of Islam for what it is -- a problem of Islam itself, not of some "extremist minority" unrelated to Islam itself).

2) the Jihad Watcher myopia that can't see the Problem of PC for what it is -- a problem of Western society in general that is

a) long-standing (over 50 years perhaps, with roots going further back)

b) powerful

c) mainstream,

including millions of ordinary people and their unthinking assumptions about what is right and wrong, not merely of some "elite minority" who are going against the grain of some "silent majority" of ordinary people who agree with Jihad Watchers.

Just as Myopia #1 is preventing us from rationally fighting Islam, so also Myopia #2 is increasingly preventing the minority of Jihad Watchers from being able to mount a strategy to rationally dismantle PC. Once PC is out of the way, delimiting and defeating Islam will be a piece of cake. But you can't effectively dismantle something if you don't have an accurate grasp of its actual dimensions.

Posted by: remote_control at January 15, 2007 8:56 PM

PRCS

It's not that I'm awed with Glenn Beck's presentations, although I do like some of his segments quite a bit -- it's that I am able to see them at all (on Headline News no less). At one time these would not have see the light of day. It may be a small step, but never-the-less, I think it is a step in the right direction.

The idea that 'we' are going to be able to convince over 1 billion Muslims that Islam is a political ideology is never --in a thousand life times-- going to happen. I'm guessing that more than 4/5 of Americans believe that Islam is a 'religion of peace' and trying to force a heavy-handed opinion on them will just create additional resistance.

I think the Islam apologists have dropped dramatically since 9/11 and not to take anything away from these types of forums -- I think the Muslim instigators of hate against the West have made some huge tactical blunders. The cartoon riots showed the main stream masses --even though the reason for it was blamed on Westerners-- that there was a different side to Islam. And the rage over the Pope's comments showed those apologists that even Pope wasn't safe from terrorist threats.

It seemed to me that the constant verbal attacks and life threats against the Pope did more to change some people's minds than the bombings in a few different countries (Spain, UK, etc).

My point is, that people that already post in these type forums, have already formed an opinion as they have looked into Islam and into the Muslim communities in Western Europe and North America. To others --leftists/socialists-- they are so opposed to anything that would actually keep them free to protest -- I don't see anything or anyone changing their minds. It's the mass middle that has to be reached.

No problem, PRCS, with the agreeing to disagree.

Posted by: Webler at January 15, 2007 9:32 PM

Round them up all of them deport them to thier native lands or intern them all of them. They are in our house preaching like this It should be over for Islam in the west.

Posted by: ethoman at January 15, 2007 9:35 PM

Okay Remote, I gotcha.

You're right. We've been steeped in PC for a long time. I've posted this before but I remember when I was a teenager in the 70's my mom used to listen to a guy named Dr. Stewart McBerney on the radio in the morning when we were eating breakfast. He warned us back then about this crap and the effects it would have and he was dead on right.

You are also correct about different forms of PC insanity. When I was a kid the United States was still considered a Christian nation, and that wasn't that long ago. I've seen the denial of that fact slathered on pretty heavily at this site, which makes one careful about what one says. But if we're really going to tell the truth, the real or delusional oppression faced by the people of the world or the people at this site because of Christianity is not in anyone's wildest dreams the oppression we face in Islam. But since it is not PC to tell the truth about Christianity or because it makes some people squirm if they are reminded that as a human they are bound to certain obligations based on the natural law that sometimes look like Christian principles, we do get stuck when trying to plan a strategy.

We also have to deal with the rascism B.S. and the stereotyping B.S. Everyone needs to understand that as human beings we are flawed and if certain groups do irritating things and do them on a regular basis, some of us are going to get irritated. It's just a fact of life. We don't have to have a hearing on it every time it happens. And along with nobody promising me a rose garden, nobody promised me that I would never be offended. As a grown up woman, I understand that nobody owes me anything on that account. I do however, expect to be respected and treated with civility, as I (and my mamma) would expect me to treat my fellow man. I do not have a political agenda that involves making my life better at the expense of other peoples' lives. I do, however, have a lot of resentment towards the people who do. That includes Muslims and Politically Correct assholes who want to tell me that they get to treat me like crap because of something my ancestors did 500 years ago!!

That does not include you, Remote, whose posts I've always enjoyed. 'Sorry for getting my feathers ruffled. I've been a little peevish ever since I watched White Elephant's link.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 15, 2007 9:36 PM

kasper1062

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSFbhIG-sk

Cheers

Posted by: Webler at January 15, 2007 10:11 PM

After seeing the excellent Ch4 documentary

Images of hate,
the real deal,
the best of all people
at their most spiritual moments.

What kind of fate
brings a black yank,
a slave to a primitive pedophile
and his bloodthirsty tribal moon god,
a slave whose voice resounds in careful cadence,
whose hands, like a magician's, are never still,
as he instills the seeds of duality
into the believer's hearts and mocks humanity,
whose greatest thrill is killing the kuffar,
while he carries water for the arabs?
Does he know the arabs call him abd?
How bizarre, how strange his fate to me,
a free black man who choses eternal slavery.

Posted by: the poetess at January 15, 2007 10:13 PM

Thank you Kaspar, who ever you are,
wherever you are, you are a shining star.

Posted by: the poetess at January 15, 2007 10:15 PM

"How bizarre, how strange his fate to me,
a free black man who choses eternal slavery."

Dead on.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 15, 2007 10:31 PM

Translation from the MCB Muslim:-

'Damn it looks like we have been caught red handed now they know what is being preached in Mosques all over UK. Support for Muslim Terrorists worldwide,mysogyny, Muslim supremacism, death threats and the desire to CONTROL all. But we are sure the Dhimmi Brits will not accept it and the PC,Human Rights,Leftwing Treehuggers will protect us so 'on with the Jihad''

Posted by: Realist at January 15, 2007 11:17 PM

I just watched BOTH of those - the 3 part from today and the 5 part from earlier. If I don't hear some major discussion of this tomorrow I think I will just stop paying attention to this issue. I am that frustrated. It can't be any clearer. If nothing is talked about or done about it with this much video evidence, so the idiots don't even have to read anything, what hope?

And I can't get anyone I know to bother watching or reading links.

There wasn't anything new in those videos for me. It is all in Robert's books.

These links need to go on http://www.DRUDGEreport.com if you want anyone to notice them. All the major U.S. talkers read it.

PS I won't give up just yet.

Posted by: Borg at January 15, 2007 11:28 PM

Watch also I, a muslim (Undercover as a Muslim in Europe at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig91au5ccjw&mode=related&search=

Probably this is what most “moderate” Muslims are really like – at least in Europe but probably also everywhere in the West where there numbers are relatively high to the population. Shouldn’t be surprised given what the Koran says and the tendency to interpret it in a fundamentalist way as the Muslim population & political power grow. It’s all enough to convince one that Rep. Virgil Goode’s call for the restriction of Muslim immigration is something to support.

Posted by: FM at January 15, 2007 11:55 PM

Infidel Pride,

I share your frustration and fatalism on one level, but I think the material contours of your frustration and fatalism are misaligned or misplaced.

"I think that the best thing to come out of all these would be major terrorist attacks that would take out as many of these dhimmis/useful idiots as possible...Reason: I no longer see how the PC desease can be eradicated without another major attack...The backlash that would then result would hopefully be unprecedented."

First of all, I am more pessimistic on one level: the Islamic attacks must have the following qualities to have the effect you note (a "backlash" sufficient to clear away our massive PC impediments):

1) They must be multiple (I don't know how many, but certainly more than one or two)

2) They must occur widely dispersed around the globe

3) They must target many major centers, not just peripheral places

4) They must be far more horrific than 9/11 or any subsequent attacks (Madrid, London, Beslan, Bali, etc.)

5) Most important of all: They must themselves more clearly demonstrate -- or be accompanied by behaviors among Muslims that more clearly demonstrate -- a more general support among worldwide Muslims than has heretofore been the case, capable of disabusing the obstinate masses and elites who are fixated on the PC axiom I have articulated before -- it's not Islam nor the vast majority of Muslims involved, it must be an "extremist minority" with largely non-Islamic motivations and "grievances" (with that particular axiom solidly framed in a larger PC matrix that prejudicially exonerates the Third World while chronically blaming the West for most of the Third World's ills, a matrix dependent upon the incoherent but nevertheless extraordinarily effective ideologies of reverse racism and Western neo-Gnostic self-hatred of, and alientation from, the West).

Without all of these 5 qualities in tandem, I don't think the PC paradigm will be shaken from its dominance in the timely manner that is so exigent now.

Your next statement is where I am less fatalistic:

"If that doesn't happen, we might as well have a betting pool on when the entire world would go Islamic. My bet - 2050."

In my view, if those 5 qualities don't happen, it does not mean we are finished. To think that, one must have a profound alienation from the vast superiority and sophistication of the modern West. What will happen, in my view, if those 5 qualities don't happen is that we will sustain more horrific casualties of lives and infrastructure than we would have had to, had the PC paradigm collapsed sooner. But eventually, after those needless horrific losses, we will rouse ourselves and finally, easily -- though tragically -- win. Why am I so sure of this? For two reasons:

1) As I said above, the West is so many light years ahead of the Muslim world, it is silly to think we could lose militarily -- once our PC obstacles finally crumble.

2) I don't buy the argument that Islam can take over by non-violent osmosis -- perhaps Islam could take over a profoundly primitive 10th-century Indonesia in largely non-violent ways, but no way in hell could it take over the most advanced civilization in world history, the 21st-century West.

Again: we will win either way, tragically and horribly, but it will be worse if we keep holding tenaciously to our PC too long; somewhat better the sooner PC is dismantled. I can't really guess which way the wind will blow: unfortunately, it will depend more on how Muslims behave in the coming decades, than how we behave, since the trajectory set for us, by us, is passivity, followed by grudging activism only after horrible losses.

Posted by: remote_control at January 16, 2007 12:18 AM

Isabella, I'm glad we're closer to the same page now. The only slight disagreement I have is your statements about America being Christian. I agree that it is PC to mock the idea that America is Christian, but on the other hand, America's Founding Fathers were able to marry Christianity with Secularism. In fact, I'd say the special genius of our Founding Fathers was that they were capable of being more Christian and more genuinely Secular at the same time -- an amazing and graceful balancing act.

Posted by: remote_control at January 16, 2007 12:26 AM

No matter what muslims are caught red-handed doing, they always play the victim card. Their arrogance is absolutely astounding. What will happen when the the victim card no longer elicits apologies and concessions, which will surely happen sooner or later. The way I see it, they have just about run out of alibis, excuses, and explanations for their overt hostility to the people and government of the U.K. The "out of context", "islamophobia", "bigotry", and other assorted half-baked canards will not hold up forever, and the damning evidence against them keeps coming in and piling up. The fact that this documentary was actually made and aired on television amazes me; I didn't think such a candid exposure of islamic treachery would ever be publically exposed in the U.K.

The fact that muslim clerics were allowed to foment hate and jihad for years with impunity has probably done much more damage than anyone in the government would care to admit. Their main concern has been to present an illusion of tranquil harmony to the public, in order to keep the peace. What they have foolishly cultivated over time is a potentially volatile situation that will eventually result in violence. The muslim leadership in the U.K. has basically told the British government that any attempts to expose, stop, and prosecute muslim clerics for inciting jihad and hate will result in a muslim revolt, and the government continues to postpone the inevitable. Those who succumb to blackmail lose every time.

Posted by: Susanp at January 16, 2007 12:48 AM

Well, I was thinking about the speeches recorded in the Mosques in last night's documentary, and realised that all the hate, bigotry, threats of violence and Islamic supremacy, everything was in fact, almost verbatim, quotes from the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sunna.
They we not made up by the clerics, just quoted from their holy scriptures.

No body knew that? How about the undercover reporters? They must have been Muslims, or turncoat Muslims at least, to enter those places unchallenged.

You cannot ban those "hate speeches", they were quoting the Koran, and that'd what Islam is!
Renouncing it is to renounce Islam itself, the teachings of Mohammad, the Koran, and the Sunna.

How lethally stupid is from the non Muslims not knowing, that all this is really coming from the scriptures of the religion of peace and tolerance.

Crack open the Koran, and read, if you don't believe it!

Posted by: pr126 at January 16, 2007 1:53 AM

Remote

For your first criteria for the threshold to be attained to slay the PC demon, I wasn't thinking so much about the magnitude and number of targets that need to be hit, but now that you mention it, I tend to agree with you on that. It would take something like one of those signature al-Qaeda simultaneous attacks worldwide, accompanied by massive pro-Osama demonstrations by Muslims worldwide, in order to cremate the PC mentality that pervades the overwhelming majority of people worldwide.

However, without trying to sound like a Naseem, I do disagree with you on your assumption that even without slaying the PC demon, we can prevail against the forces of Islam.

But eventually, after those needless horrific losses, we will rouse ourselves and finally, easily -- though tragically -- win. Why am I so sure of this? For two reasons:

1) As I said above, the West is so many light years ahead of the Muslim world, it is silly to think we could lose militarily -- once our PC obstacles finally crumble.

This directly contradicts the earlier part of your theory, where you assume 5 necessary and (presumably) sufficient conditions for the demise of PC. Here, you state once our PC obstacles crumble, as though that is inevitable. But you yourself point out a threshold as high as the WTC, which given al Qaeda's much reduced capabilities, is very unlikely to be attained - for that, you'd need something that makes 9/11 look like the Columbine shootings.

You also mention 'militarily' above. No-one doubts militarily - what with the Ethiopian victory, the (mis-directed) Iraqi troop surge and the like. The problem is not a military one - it's more a combination of demographics and PC attitudes that bestows on Muslims a 'favored community' status traditionally reserved for groups that were perceived to have been historically wronged, and therefore, rightly or wrongly, deserving of redress. (Regardless of whether one thinks that Native Americans were wronged, or that Blacks deserve reparations, there is no reason that Muslims deserve any of such considerations.)

2) I don't buy the argument that Islam can take over by non-violent osmosis -- perhaps Islam could take over a profoundly primitive 10th-century Indonesia in largely non-violent ways, but no way in hell could it take over the most advanced civilization in world history, the 21st-century West.

Those are fighting words that certainly everybody here hopes will come true, but remember, the same was once true of the Byzantine empire - the leading civilization in Europe, which was pretty much the Britannia of its time. The one thing that the most advanced civilization in world history lacks is Sun Tzu's motto: Know your enemy. So far, the West (and East - India, Thailand and Phillipines are no better) hasn't shown the remotest (pun not intended) indication that it even knows who it's at war with, much less the methods by which this war is fought.

Also, your implication above that this osmosis will be only non-violent, is likely only in the initial phase - sort of like the early part of Mohammed's career. Once Islamic populations reach a threshold where they become a solid voting bloc, it will be next to impossible for political parties to write them off while doing their electoral calculations. In fact, one could argue that this is the case today! And once they get to the point that they are a plurality, you are likely to see the story of Malaysia repeat itself (Indonesia's Islamization was not even mainly non-violent, as Ibn Battuta noted about Sumatra in the 13th century, despite what Islamic apologists say). And once they come to power, they'll then use the police and army to enforce their Shariah vision, and at that point, you'll see the violence.

In short, nothing short of a military coup in Washington, followed by a large scale deportation of all Muslims - immigrant, descendants of Muslims and converts - is likely to pull us out of this quagmire.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 16, 2007 2:00 AM

From awake's link above; a Glen Beck show transcript:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/11/gb.01.html

I`ll never forget the terrified look on Stu, my radio producer`s face, when I told him, "All right. I`ve made my decision. I`m going to announce it today." It had take me about a year, but I came to my conclusion after reading the Koran cover to cover. I had traveled to the Middle East. I had gone to mosques. I had met with Muslims from all walks of life. I looked at both sides of it.

And after prayerful reflection, I came to the realization that, just like every other religion, or even the Internet, Islam can be used for good or evil. It is the individual people that make the difference.

I believe that a tiny minority of Muslims, about 10 percent, are a danger to you and your children and to me and mine. I`m not talking about the neighbor down the street or the colleague. Maybe.

But mainly I`m talking about the people like the people in Iran that are currently running the country who are holding up Holocaust deniers conventions. I`m talking about the Muslims in the Gaza that killed three Palestinian children today when trying to assassinate one of their own.

So while good Muslims are the overwhelming majority, it`s the evil ones who are hijacking Islam for their own twisted purposes.

The only way to defeat this growing threat of radicalized Islam is to do what Christianity did when it reached its pivot point: to undergo a reformation. The good Muslims need to stand up and say, "I want my religion back!" When that happens around the world, the war on terror will finally be over.

Bulloney.

Posted by: PRCS at January 16, 2007 2:17 AM

I can't really guess which way the wind will blow: unfortunately, it will depend more on how Muslims behave in the coming decades, than how we behave, since the trajectory set for us, by us, is passivity, followed by grudging activism only after horrible losses. Posted by: remote_control

That is the only other scenario, other than the ones above, where I can see us coming out on top. However, when one is so heavily dependent on one's enemies gargantuan mistakes to come out on top, it is next to impossible to be optimistic about the outcome. It wouldn't take much to defeat us, if we simply refuse to fight. Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 16, 2007 3:19 AM

The Glenn Beck transcript quoted above is an example of a classic PC cookie-cutter template.

Posted by: remote_control at January 16, 2007 3:38 AM

Well, lets rally to get Glenn Beck off the air then. So instead of him reporting and giving exposure about the jihadis - we all can go back to watching YouTube videos in our own little Blogosphere world.

Posted by: Webler at January 16, 2007 4:31 AM

For quite some time now those that have been dealing with the people who think that there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about concerning those "non existent terrorist threats." Who also go on about the "neocons" portrayal of Islam in a negative light --cooked up by the Bush/Blair administrations-- by planting stories in the newspapers that are made up for the "xenophobic hate mongers."

I tell them to forget the articles written by a Westerners and just to listen to the words of many in the Muslim community. Whether the videos clips are from MEMRI TV, or the countless videos on the Web that have the Islamic scholars preaching their hatred and death warrants. I suggest to them that there is no need to take my word for it - and just listen to all the hateful quotes that they freely give to reporters by these Islamic fundamentalists.

Once again, another video backs up the contention that there is something to be concerned about.

Undercover Mosque speaks volumes.

Here's another documentary done by Channel Five UK on YouTube. It may interest a few of you.

"David Aaronovitch: No Excuses For Terror. Who is really responsible for the suicide bombers that target us? Is it the fault of George Bush or Tony Blair? Are we all somehow to blame? David Aaronovitch, journalist and commentator, has had enough of this argument. He asks how we've got to the point where British Socialists support Islamofascist Terrorism. Aaronovitch explains where the left have gone wrong on Israel, Palestine, the War in Iraq and the War on Terror."

Aaronovitch on Channel 5 (Part 1 of 4)

Aaronovitch on Channel 5 (Part 2 of 4)

Aaronovitch on Channel 5 (Part 3 of 4)

Aaronovitch on Channel 5 (Part 4 of 4)

Posted by: Webler at January 16, 2007 4:36 AM

PRCS, Beck didn't do the math. The tiny 10% (maybe) is 130 Million. That's a huge number and not so tiny.

Posted by: sounder at January 16, 2007 10:21 AM

Infidel Pride,

"http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014836.php#c335100"

Agree with you. The Byzantines, the Persians, and the Indus Valley People were the most advanced civilizations of their time, but islam dominated. Persia went islamic as did Constantinople and India lost most of its land as the islamic nations of afghanistan, pakistan and bangladesh were carved out from its territory. The jihad has not stopped, there is no reason to believe that the muslims will behave otherwise what has been their classical behaviour, towards all infidels and infidel held territories, for nearly 1400 years.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at January 16, 2007 10:54 AM

Sounder,

You are correct.

And he didn't do his homework, either.

He has no idea how large the 'tiny minority of extremists' is; and his position leaves Ma and Pa America with the false impression that Islam is, at its core,'a religion of peace'. My congressman and both senators still buy into that.

He would do well to point out specific passages from Qur'an (which he says he's read 'from cover to cover') and note how they runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution.

I'm not sure how he missed sura 5:38 and that Saudi Arabia (a large nation) does still amputate pickpockets' hands as God commands them.

The real issue, IMO: democracy is antithetical to Islam.

Posted by: PRCS at January 16, 2007 12:09 PM

Infidel Pride,

"It would take something like one of those signature al-Qaeda simultaneous attacks worldwide, accompanied by massive pro-Osama demonstrations by Muslims worldwide, in order to cremate the PC mentality that pervades the overwhelming majority of people worldwide."

Yes, it would have to be accompanied by irrefutable evidence of general, worldwide mass support by Muslims -- otherwise the argument would be made that it's only an extremist minority and does not reflect most Muslims (or Islam itself). Attacks alone would not shake the PC paradigm, even if it would galvanize another "coalition" to fight against specific Muslim enemies here and there (as we've already seen). Also, aside from simply demonstrating such widespread support (pro-Osama demonstrations), another even better type of evidence would be seeing millions (not just hundreds, or thousands) of Muslims globally (not just in one region) running amok (lynching, looting, burning, mass-murdering).

"I do disagree with you on your assumption that even without slaying the PC demon, we can prevail against the forces of Islam."

I should make my position here clearer. My second alternative (should PC not be forced to dismantle quickly, or at all) would bifurcate into two:

1) Even without dismantling PC, the West could get locked into a half-assed "victory" that lasts indefinitely into the future -- i.e., forever putting out brush fires of Islam wherever they pop up, but never admitting that Islam itself (and the vast majority of Muslims) is the problem. Although those "brush fires" would in this scenario likely get worse and worse, it could conceivably never escalate to an apocalyptic conflagration or stark apocalyptic "showdown": it could very well just keep slogging along, with upwards of a million casualties per year for years and years, decades and decades, centuries, to come. Again, I think this is a plausible possibility because the West is sufficiently superior to Islam.

2) PC would not fall quickly and dramatically (like the Soviet Union crumbled), but would take decades, perhaps a century, to fall, by means of a slower sociopolitical change of consciousness that changes by attrition, rather than by sudden shocks. This scenario would be the same as #1 above with only one difference: in #1 above, PC never falls, while in #2, it does fall, but only after an incredibly long time of hanging on.

With my reconfigured prognosis in mind, I have now 3 possible outcomes (the first one from my previous post plus the bifurcated two here). The loss of lives and infrastructure can be apportioned out among them:

Scenario A: PC falls quickly and dramatically after the 5 conditions of Muslim behavior are met (boiled down into two in my post here -- horrible global attacks + demonstrably massive and global support from millions of Muslims): Losses sustained by us: horrible and tragic, but less than B or C.

Scenario B: PC takes decades, perhaps a century, to finally fall apart. Losses sustained by us, also horrible and tragic, but far worse than A.

Scenario C: PC never falls, but the West gets locked into a perpetual war of attrition against Islam (without ever admitting that Islam + most Muslims are the problem). Losses sustained by us, also horrible and tragic, but far worse than A or B.

Of course, there is a 4th scenario that is always possible (anything is possible), though extremely unlikely: PC will fall quickly and dramatically even before horrible attacks occur, through some miracle of collective common sense in the West.

"You also mention 'militarily' above. No-one doubts militarily..."

Hugh Fitzgerald has repeatedly written that Islam could take over without military attacks -- without even terrorist attacks, through some kind of Da'wa osmosis, I guess: I don't know, because he never clearly articulates the actual mechanics of such a non-violent takeover. You seem to contradict yourself slightly on this account, as I will show presently.

"The problem is not a military one - it's more a combination of demographics and PC attitudes that bestows on Muslims a 'favored community' status traditionally reserved for groups that were perceived to have been historically wronged, and therefore, rightly or wrongly, deserving of redress."

The problem with this concern is that it ignores the problem of diminishing returns. Even if Muslims gain "favored community" status in a variety of small ways such as we have seen pop up in various places in the West (halal foods in a school cafeteria, cemeteries with bodies facing Mecca, etc.), these "favors" granted Muslims will never become an actual take-over. Most of you Jihad Watchers seem to think in terms of a modified "give them an inch and they will take a mile": "If we give them an inch, we will eventually be unable to control ourselves from voluntarily giving them the whole mile." This is the modified version of that cliché, and it is an important distinction, because the un-modified version is the violent scenario: "If we give them an inch, they will take a mile" -- i.e., if we keep yielding to their little demands, they will someday have gathered enough power to be able to violently take over." This scenario I think is extremely unlikely to succeed, even if it might be slightly likely to be attempted here and there, but be easily put down by us. The non-violent modified version of the cliché -- "If we give them an inch, we will eventually be unable to control ourselves from voluntarily giving them the whole mile" -- is preposterous, since it will force into the light of day what the PC mentality stubbornly denies, the stark difference of values between the oil of Islam and the water of the West .

This scenario's ridiculousness can be highlighted by an analogy: Imagine a community whose members all hate pistachio ice cream. Now imagine that slowly over time, a few new immigrants infiltrate the community successfully and seemingly harmlessly. However, imagine also that these new immigrants love pistachio ice cream and have dreams of making it the only allowed ice cream (with harsh penalties for all other flavors put into laws). Now, the majority traditional community members could fool themselves through their silly PC attitudes and deny that there's any problem here for a long time, but eventually, there will come a day of reckoning, when the new members will actually try to pass a law and actually enforce a love of pistachio ice cream and a punishment for all other flavors. The PC community members who hate pistachio and love other flavors are not going to curl up and accept this. PC may be idiotic and may cause people to think as though brainwashed, but it is not literal brainwashing, PC people are not hypnotized zombies: as bad as PC is, PC people's minds are not as brainwashed as Muslim minds are. When push comes to shove, when the rubber meets the road, PC people are not going to just stand there and allow somebody to force them to eat pistachio ice cream. The problem we are in now is that the permeation of the Muslim "favors" into the textures of our Western societies is at a very low-level, embryonic stage, only manifesting itself in isolated circumstances here and there -- and this state of affairs allows the PC people the luxury to continue to think irresponsibly about the whole thing, because we are still very far from the "push comes to shove" situation that would otherwise force PC people to wake up.

There is a tiny minority among PC people that are truly loony and actually can fuse in their minds, for example, the contradiction of their support of gay marriages with their support of Muslims that they know desire to execute gays. But I really think these types of PC people are negligible in numbers and will be swept away by their brothers once the rubber meets the road. The problem of PC can be boiled down to this: the PC mentality is sufficiently irrational that it will take an inordinate amount of time and amassment of evidence before they reach the threshhold of waking up -- but they do have that threshhold. It's just a matter of bringing them to it, or bringing the threshhold to them.

Posted by: remote_control at January 16, 2007 3:23 PM

"This continuing demonization of British Muslims...."

....is directly attributable to British Muslim behaviour.....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 16, 2007 3:52 PM

The real issue, IMO: democracy is antithetical to Islam.

Posted by: PRCS

I agree and have written up an editorial on it, posted here:
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=953

which I'm going to send to my Federal & State Representatives and other leaders at the federal level.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 16, 2007 5:49 PM

Scenario B: PC takes decades, perhaps a century, to finally fall apart. Losses sustained by us, also horrible and tragic, but far worse than A.

In this scenario, you are assuming a static situation on the other side - that while PC gradually erodes, Muslims/Islam isn't making, or even attempting any gains. But the Islamic gains you allude to above - Qibla oriented graveyards, Halal cafeterias, Qibla disoriented toilets, teaching Islam in public schools while Christianity can't be taught, etc. insignificant in themselves, would cumulatively provide an environment that would swell the confidence, and ergo, the pushiness of the ummah.

The problem with this concern is that it ignores the problem of diminishing returns. Even if Muslims gain "favored community" status in a variety of small ways such as we have seen pop up in various places in the West (halal foods in a school cafeteria, cemeteries with bodies facing Mecca, etc.), these "favors" granted Muslims will never become an actual take-over. Most of you Jihad Watchers seem to think in terms of a modified "give them an inch and they will take a mile": "If we give them an inch, we will eventually be unable to control ourselves from voluntarily giving them the whole mile." This is the modified version of that cliché, and it is an important distinction, because the un-modified version is the violent scenario: "If we give them an inch, they will take a mile" -- i.e., if we keep yielding to their little demands, they will someday have gathered enough power to be able to violently take over."

You are assuming that they are going to ask for the entire mile at once. Some may (the fast Jihad vs. the slow Jihad), but instead, in different places in the West, they'll keep on asking for a few inches here, a few feet there, and so on - and you're overlooking the fact that there is a cumulative impact. One can see the effect particularly in the smaller (population-wise) European countries, like Holland, Sweden, Norway, et al. In Holland, there seems to be a backlash because there's simply nothing more to give. (As far as Holland goes, I have a theory that because the targets of Islamic rampage have been traditionally Leftist constituencies, like gays, the backlash, such as the niqab ban, has been forceful. Activists on the Right, at least in Europe, seem to be more reluctant to be cast as bigots if they are attacked, than activists on the Left). Already, in parts of France, you have Islamic enclaves where Infidels don't dare go. Once such enclaves are set up, their breeding would enable them to expand, and occupy more turf. For this reason, even if PC erodes at a snail's pace, it is unlikely to have an impact.

Your ice cream analogy looks good, but misses an important point. With the ice cream, it's fair to assume that the lover of strawberry/coffee/vanilla ... flavored ice creams are just as intense about them as the pistachio ice cream lovers would be about pistachio. However, with religion, as far as the population at large goes, you don't have matching intensity between Infidels and Muslims. Amongst Muslims, particularly those moving to the West, Islam is followed much more fervently by the average Muslim emigre, than Christianity/Judaism/Hinduism/Buddhism etc. are followed by their adherents. As a result, if there were a tug of war between Muslims who wanted Islamic trends imposed, vs. a largely agnostic West, guess who'd win. If there was an argument between building a mosque vs a church next to a farm in Katy, TX, there's a good chance that the party pushing the church could win. But if the argument is between building the mosque vs building nothing, guess what will end up there. (Yeah, I know one could suggest malls instead of a church, but the analogy here is that you can't beat something with nothing, and that given varying intensities between two groups, the one with the greater intensity wins.)

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 16, 2007 5:55 PM

APOBH,

I bookmarked that link yesterday.

I also write letters; lots of letters.

Thanks for your work.

Posted by: PRCS at January 16, 2007 5:57 PM

PRCS - in the words of another jihad fighter, "Let's Roll." More and more people seem to be waking up and the climate has been changing as well.

I think every letter and email we write makes a difference even if we don't see immediate results.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 16, 2007 6:03 PM

Thanks to whoever sent this to Drudge.

Posted by: Borg at January 16, 2007 8:49 PM

They have had over 200,000 hits today. They also have a six part video. The three part left out some of the program.

Posted by: Borg at January 16, 2007 9:12 PM

That's LGF had over 200,000 hits today.

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

Posted by: Borg at January 16, 2007 9:15 PM

Borg,

I get the idea, then, that it was actually linked to Drudge from LGF.

I'll check out the six-part vid.

Posted by: PRCS at January 16, 2007 10:12 PM

Infidel Pride,

Quoting me: "Scenario B: PC takes decades, perhaps a century, to finally fall apart. Losses sustained by us, also horrible and tragic, but far worse than A."

You write: "In this scenario, you are assuming a static situation on the other side - that while PC gradually erodes, Muslims/Islam isn't making, or even attempting any gains."

That's not entirely accurate:

My phrase, "far worse horrible and tragic losses" was meant to imply the possibility of gains by Muslim forces. On the other hand, I suppose the overall arc of that "Hundred Years War" would be "static" insofar as Muslims would never actually win, but only manage to gouge out horrible pieces of our flesh in trying, unsuccessfully, to win.

"You are assuming that they are going to ask for the entire mile at once. Some may (the fast Jihad vs. the slow Jihad), but instead, in different places in the West, they'll keep on asking for a few inches here, a few feet there, and so on - and you're overlooking the fact that there is a cumulative impact."

But no matter how slow and sly Muslims might pursue their slow jihad, when they reach the liberal threshhold, the PC people will wake up: I mean, requesting special Mecca-avoiding toilets is one thing (easily assimilable into a Third-World-sensitive political correctness), but demanding that gays be thrown off Big Ben or women stoned at Stonehenge is quite another. And it will never be too late for PC people to wake up and redress the problem. Waking up late will only mean it will be terribly messier to clean up what they had neglected to take care of earlier (and granted, that will be a horrible "only", yet not a hopeless one) -- but Western superiority is so many light years beyond that of Muslims on all levels -- technologically, sociologically, psychologically -- that once the PC people wake up, it will be lights out for the Muslims, no matter how deeply they had sunk their claws into the fabric and flesh of our Body Politic.

At the threshhold-point when Muslim demands glide from being quaintly oriental customs we should be "sensitive" about, to being anti-liberal barbarities obvious to even the most diehard PC advocate, the Muslims will no longer be able to pursue their agenda without violence: and then it will be anti-PC barbarity coupled with violence + PC awareness (finally). That = lights out for Muslims. At that crucial juncture, the PC people will treat Muslims exactly like they would treat BNP or KKK whites who suddenly started going around setting black girls on fire in the street in broad daylight. No mercy.

"Already, in parts of France, you have Islamic enclaves where Infidels don't dare go. Once such enclaves are set up, their breeding would enable them to expand, and occupy more turf. For this reason, even if PC erodes at a snail's pace, it is unlikely to have an impact."

Those enclaves I think tend to be already low-class economically and socially insignificant areas anyway. If Muslims tried to expand in the same way into the higher-class areas where liberal wealthy French people enjoy their fine wines and culture, it would become a different matter. At worst, the present situation in those "ghettoes" ("banlieues") would become a situation where the French would give up on those "ghettos", but it would be a relatively geographically static deterioration.

"Your ice cream analogy looks good, but misses an important point. With the ice cream, it's fair to assume that the lover of strawberry/coffee/vanilla ... flavored ice creams are just as intense about them as the pistachio ice cream lovers would be about pistachio. However, with religion, as far as the population at large goes, you don't have matching intensity between Infidels and Muslims."

I disagree. Among modern Western Infidels, you do have a matching intensity about secularist freedom to do what you want to do in life -- even if that means wasting your life with TV, or sports, or chat rooms, or hookers, or alcohol or drugs, etc. Again, there is a "hidden" threshhold here, which if Muslims push too much, will be forced to surface: and when it surfaces, it will be lights out for Muslims. Millions of Americans would fight and die for the freedom to watch Jerry Springer and sit on a couch eating potato chips and farting while they watch wrestling. Trust me. They only seem hopelessly complacent, passive and soft now because the issue hasn't been forced. But when it gets too close to being forced, they will not let some sand niggers take away -- at the very least -- their flat screen TVs.

"...if there were a tug of war between Muslims who wanted Islamic trends imposed, vs. a largely agnostic West, guess who'd win."

I think you underestimate the richness, depth and spiritual basis of modern agnostic materialism. It's not just sweet froth and bubbly scum on the surface of some vacuous capitalistically money-grubbing nihilism, as many anti-globalist chicken littles worry. It is the expression of a profound superiority that is not merely material and technological, but moral as well. I'm not saying it's all roses and that the modern West is perfect. Just that its imperfections are exaggerated -- and its hidden virtues are ignored or even denigrated -- as part of the neo-Gnostic anti-Westernism and anti-Americanism that forms a substructure of PC Multiculturalism.

"...but the analogy here [Katy, Texas] is that you can't beat something with nothing, and that given varying intensities between two groups, the one with the greater intensity wins."

Where Muslims seem to excel in "intensity", they fail in having a rich and layered substratum of centuries of healthy sociopolitical progress: The most vulgar pastimes of the common American rests its fat butt on an enduring heritage vastly superior -- ethically, sociologically and technologically -- to the seemingly noblest ardor of Muslim fanaticism.

Posted by: remote_control at January 16, 2007 10:18 PM

The day may come where I will have to claim asylum in Ethiopia. Thank God the women there look good. And Thank God they don't wear veils. I'd much rather visit this stand-up Nation as a tourist than as an asylum-seeker. As of now, Ethiopia has shown the way!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 16, 2007 10:58 PM

"The producers were "resorting to the dishonest tactic of selectively quoting from some recorded speeches for the purpose of misrepresentation," MCB secretary general Abdul Bari said."

"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain!"
Posted by: USBeast

So they want the eemams broadcast live instead? The one thing that bothers them is that more of us are learning the truth about islam [may it be eternally cursed by the humping of a lovesick camel].

They KNOW that some of our own who've been branding us "racist" may now start thinking for themselves!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 16, 2007 11:06 PM

When such teaching is taught, the mosques need to be shut down and their preachers deported.

What you have in mind, Goobs, would be good enough for me, but my preferred action is to handle things Iraqi-style if you catch my drift.

Let's GET BRUTAL!!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 16, 2007 11:09 PM

Here's a link to MPACUK:

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/3273/34/

The whinning is priceless.

Posted by: PRCS at January 16, 2007 11:25 PM

Mahomet = SATAN

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 16, 2007 11:29 PM

This from the same channel that had a niqab'ed Mohammedan whore deliver their Christmas address?
Posted by: Infidel Pride

On the positive side: now this channel can rightfully say it is free of bias.

I saw the first installment of this undercover video.. and about to watch the rest, I wish I could SAVE the files instead of relying on youtube to carry them. They may take them off citing copyrights.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 16, 2007 11:35 PM

I'm not a practicing Christians but if may I offer a little prayer..

Please God, turn Angela Merkel into a mix of Maggie and Golda!!

If Germany seeks true redemption we MUST spearhead the good fight against anti-Semitism in all its forms. And that means we must stand united against islam [p*** be upon it]!

Please God, Let us SAVE Jews for a change.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 16, 2007 11:39 PM

Numbers,thats how they plan to empower themselves.On the tax payers tab,thats how they live.We pay them to live in our land and we pay them to live in thier land.

They can't take over by military might,we would crush them,decimate them.

They can't take over by economic superiority,they have nothing to offer except oil ( some of them )and we give them aid besides that in some form or fashion.They don't really aspire to much advancement.What century do they wish to live in?

They won't take over due to inteligence.Thier schools obviously aren't that great or they wouldn't need to go to the infedel lands to learn.They blow up schools don't they?

They surely won't win over hearts and minds in elections in the free world ,not while all unbelievers will be made as slaves and women as a commodity and the children from that day forward brainwashed into the cult of death.

Immigration in my opinion is the hotest topic it beats out even the wars we are fighting.Immigration is the bigest threat to our security it has been for decades and if the gov. has it's way it will be up until the end of our days.

I cannot understand the problem with finding solutions to this dilemma ,not by those whose job it is to find these solutions.They make laws every day, the failure to find the laws to deal with such an important issue goes way beyond failure,it's past disgusting.

By sheer numbers,another case of an ideal that cannot support itself.The idea of such poor states and nations that constantly breed when they know perfectly well they cannot provide for them,it only proves one point ,fact of the matter two points.The plan is to out breed the original population and take over and to breed the warriors to keep up the fight.

The bleeding hearts will keep fighting to hand the hungry fish like trained seals,instead of showing them the art of fishing will insure the horde stays healthy enough to go forward with it's plans.

We all seen what happened to palistine when we stopped the money flow,they had NOTHING.The state of palistine has nothing ,even israel it's sworn enemy by allah keeps food in the pals. bellies and bullets in thier rifles.They must feel special knowing thier only salvation comes from thier enemies,allah truly looks out for them huh?

Fifty years are what some "experts " are saying that we will be fighting the war on terror,but the real fighters haven't even joined the fight yet.You see there are some who are watching and waiting,listening.They are the ones who will be striking the fear into the cold black hearts of islam,because they do not fear the zombies.Islam is nothing to fear you should always remember islam is scared to death of you and of freedom.

There should be marches to put the million man march to shame all the way to the white house,they should need to call out whats left of the national guard to prevent the tresspass onto the white house lawn.The thing to remember is that we are civilized and peaceful and the only harm intended is that directed to the horde that refuse to accept what should be thier reality.

The day will come when islam will be taken to task for it's deeds,be it hijacked or not the clock for all reason is quickly slipping away and those that wait,watch and listen will say the time is here and will have no choice but to claim back that which the horde and it's masters wish to steal.

I have no tears for the fallen zombies nor thier shields,yes the children,the innocent minds sent into hell because of these mad people and thier twisted desires.All that befalls the umma,it's darkest hour yet to come will have but one place to lay the blame for it's future hell and thats thier precious hiearchy,the kings of islam,the holier than thou,the "enlightened ones ",the truly demented damned of the damned.

Numbers,it's as easy as that.It's about as easy to subtract as it is to add.The plans for war consist of planning a counter plan to the enemies.

Another day passes,time has shortened for the horde.I can guarantee the clock does not have fifty years worth of ticking and tocking.Not even remotely close.

Standing in the light waiting for the day of days.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at January 17, 2007 12:26 AM

I am ***SICK*** having to watch this!!!!

To my English Brothers: STAY STRONG and TAKE FAITH IN THIS:

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy lamb of God
On Englands pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear: o clouds unfold!
Bring me my chariots of fire!
I will not cease from metal fight;
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

STAND UP ENGLAND!!! STAND UP ALL OF EUROPE!!
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER NOW!!!!!!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 17, 2007 12:29 AM

I was watching the Dispatches program with great interest.

What the imams / preachers said was nothing more really what is already written in the Koran, Hadiths and the Sunna.
The were only preaching their holy scriptures, which every Muslim MUST follow.
Indeed, we should be grateful to them for educating the ignorant British masses of the true nature of Islam.

Confirming everything what Robert Spencer writes.

This is the real Islam (TM).Nothing added, nothing taken away.

Thanks for the education. Thanks C4.

Posted by: pr126 at January 17, 2007 4:40 AM

I get so pissed off when I hear about extremist. What extremist?

The "extremist" is just following the teachings of Mohammad 33:21, and the Koran to the letter. He is an honest Muslim. He knows his religion, he knows what is required of him.

Even when he is engaged in mass murder and genocide, (Darfur, Bangladesh, etc.) it is still prescribed in the Koran.

This is NOT extremism. This is Islam (TM), as Mohammad intended.

Posted by: pr126 at January 17, 2007 5:30 AM

Regretfully it has been pulled from YouTube. If anyone does know of another avenue, please advise. I sent the link to a LARGE number of people and not all of like mind. Now, I won't know how everyone will respond, sigh.

Since this was posted here very early on, I have been monitoring the MSM and, not surprisingly, found no mention of it, no coverage. However, tonight while flipping through satellite radio channels SURPRISE, Larry Elder covered it extensively. I called to give him kudos and I never call radio.

Thanks to all the wide awake folks on this site.

Reason trumps emotion and ignorance is not bliss.

Posted by: TK at January 17, 2007 11:55 PM

TK

There is a link on Gates of Vienna. Failing that if anybody can let me know of another website where it can be uploaded I can do it as soon as I get a chance.

Posted by: Britishbulldog at January 18, 2007 4:23 AM