I'm sure Paul Wolfowitz and other advisors to Bush didn't have the possible creation of a greater Persia in mind as a result of the war with Iraq. But that looks to be the way things are headed. Bad news.

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 6:03 AM

Why all the books in the shelf behind them?

That supposed to make them look intelligent?

Why bother and pretend when you have the Koran?

http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/19/my-allah-is-better/

http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/20/the-imam/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at January 16, 2007 6:13 AM

"The future isn't what it used to be".-Yogi Berra

One thing I've learned in life is that things never turns out the way we imagine they will turn out. That is true even on a personal level. Not our finances, our marriage, our kids, whatever, will turn out as planned, and often turn out contrary to our desires. However, things may turn out better than ever dreamed possible (often this happens when we don't have high hopes for the future)or not so good, but not as planned. We see that principle being played out in Iraq where this belief-system is melting the Bush dreams of a prosperous and democratic Iraq into a fiery cauldron of chaos because of Iran and ethnic and "religious" hatreds in "Iraq".

The Psychotic-in-Iran and Co. plan on dominating "Iraq", and dominating the Mideast. Things may not turn out as planned by them. They may end-up with a devastated nuclear dream and an Iranian cauldron of ethnic and "religious" violence that will make what is going on in Iraq look like "peace".

When God made time He created a condition of an unfolding future in a mysterious universe where things go bump in the night for many reasons (including luck-chance). The future is full of surprises-some will cause joy, and others will cause sorrow. In this matter, we have to be realistic, but hope for the best for everyone who desires to live in freedom, to live in a place where there is the unlimited right to reason and to express thoughts and opinions based on reason and not have our minds foot-bound by dogmas.

Posted by: Frank at January 16, 2007 6:24 AM

"Iraqis, who have echoed Tehran's calls for the U.S. to release the five men, say the three-way standoff that has ensued reveals more about American meddling in Iraqi affairs than about Iranian influence."

.......AND JUST WHAT Iraqi affairs is he worried about that he does not want the Americans to know about???

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 16, 2007 6:45 AM

My late grandmother often said, "when the goose hangs high, look out". Easy victory is often hollow (and full of unforeseen dangers)and adversity often is a prelude to real victory as good things we never anticipated come to pass. Someone once said that victory and defeat are both impostors. The reality here is that this condition in Iraq may prove to be really lethal to the Psychotic-In-Iran and Co. The Persians may see their dreams of empire and the end of Israel become a nightmare for them.

Posted by: Frank at January 16, 2007 6:49 AM

Lovely picture.

Nice to know that democracy works.

Posted by: witness at January 16, 2007 7:24 AM

So much for dancing the minuet wearing leaden Frankenstein (monster's) boots. This is what our administration is doing in trying to shock life and cohesion into the patched-up monstrosity that is Iraq.

Do you trust the "Iraqi Government?" Aren't they as Islamic as Iran? And when facing us, Iran joins Syria via Hezbollah, etc.

When will Bush & Co. (and that idiotic try by Condoleeza Rice to get the Saudis and Jordan's kinglet involved in the "peace process" of Israel vs. Hamas and the foul Mahmoud Abbas) learn that--as Hugh said--you gotta play chess, not half-assed baseball when all you have on your side is a team that can't play the other side's game.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at January 16, 2007 7:26 AM

Final thought re this article: Sometimes a good ass-kicking is our friend disguised as adversity. It makes us more cautious and realistic as we make our plans for the future. I'm sure the Israelis have learned some hard lessons from their recent run-in with Nasralla and Co., the branch office of the Psychotic-In-Iran and Co. These clowns running Iran, this belief-system, must never be underestimated and it's not a good idea to "negotiate" with them and hope for the best with them. As Teddy Roosevelt said, it is best to "speak softly and carry a big stick" with them.

In the final analysis, only a catastrophe for Iran will make the Psychotic-In-Iran and Co. face reality. Meanwhile, just because they are clowns doesn't mean they aren't very dangerous. They must never be underestimated. Adversity in Iraq is a friend, just as the Israeli experience with Nasralla and Co. is a friend.

Posted by: Frank at January 16, 2007 7:41 AM

On the surface this does look bad. However, even though these are all Shiites there still is that old Arab-Persian emnity below the surface that in the long run may prove stronger than even their similar notions concerning their god Illah. Besides, Iraq's Sunnis probably won't stand for a greater Persia without putting in their two cents. Once the US leaves these old feuds could very well flare up.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 16, 2007 7:46 AM

ISLAMSFORLOSERS-

Agree. When I first read Hugh's thoughts on these matters, I was quite annoyed. I've changed my mind. It reminds me of the Mark Twain comment that when he was 12 he thought his old man was a fool, but when he was 20 he was amazed at how much wisdom he had gained. The wisdom here is in these hard lessons and things may turn out very bad for Iran because we have grown-up on the matter.

Posted by: Frank at January 16, 2007 8:07 AM

However, even though these are all Shiites there still is that old Arab-Persian emnity below the surface that in the long run may prove stronger than even their similar notions concerning their god Illah. Besides, Iraq's Sunnis probably won't stand for a greater Persia without putting in their two cents. Once the US leaves these old feuds could very well flare up.

I was thinking about this the other day. Supposedly, Iran's about to run out of oil soon. Some (most, all?) of the Iraqi Shiites would love Iran's help in ridding themselves of the Sunnis, partially so they don't have to share Iraq's oil with them. My guess is that these two Shia groups, Arab and Persian, will join up to get rid of the Sunnis, effectively raising the amount of oil per (Shiite) capita. I have seen that some of the Sunnis are now advocating putting down their weapons and asking the Americans for protection (don't have a link handy, unfortunately), so they may also be realizing that this is the endgame. As Hugh has made me and others on this site aware of, the Sunnis seemed to think they were nearly half of Iraqs population, when they are more like 25%.

My opinion is that if the Sunnis do go down, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

That said, it does leave the issue of a stronger Iran on the US' plate.

But, in one respect, that fact may also make the case for war against Iran stronger. Bush can go to the public and say that despite whatever mistakes were made in Iraq, the real cause of our failure was Iran and that's why we need to go after them.

Posted by: venividivici at January 16, 2007 8:07 AM

"One thing I've learned in life is that things never turns out the way we imagine they will turn out. That is true even on a personal level. Not our finances, our marriage, our kids, whatever, will turn out as planned, and often turn out contrary to our desires. However, things may turn out better than ever dreamed possible (often this happens when we don't have high hopes for the future)or not so good, but not as planned."

Posted by Frank.

Glad you said that Frank. I have been having the same thoughts for some time myself.

When I read all the predictions re islam, sure they look awful, but as you say nothing goes to plan.

No one as yet has succesfully predicted the future. Maybe they see "messages" in hindsight as in Nostradamus, but that is about it.

Right now they can't even get the weather forecast right and who would have thought oil would drop so much in 7 months? They told us it would keep going up.

We must never be complacent about them, but give them enough rope,,,,you never know!

Posted by: Gramfan at January 16, 2007 8:12 AM

The Iraqi government is moving to solidify relations with Iran.

We paid a trillion $$$ for this?

2:216 * 4:74 * 9:111 * 4:96 * 56:22 * 38:51 * 55:56 * 55:76 * 56:22 * 8:74 * 9:2 * 5:50

Hey sheik, your blog is really coming on. I read the essay on ex-Prez Jimmy. Given your expertise on this person, a question:

His eyes so glazed that they look like a real bad doughnut coming out of the oven at the bakery. Hell, you can see your reflection in them.

Is ex-Prez Jimmy a pothead, now that he's retired and all hooked up with the big-time PetroDollars?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 16, 2007 8:16 AM

A couple of sorry looking sad asses.

Posted by: Anthony at January 16, 2007 8:56 AM

Off-topic, but relevant:

Tancredo forms Presidential exploratory committee

Would be nice to get some people in office that actually will do something about National Defense and fight wars against Islamists in a manner where we can win the fight. Tom Tancredo would get my vote.

Posted by: Foehammer at January 16, 2007 8:56 AM

At this point in time, anything that strengthens or gives aid and comfort to Iran is troubling to me. The Iraqis are one thing but the fanaticism of the Iranians is truly amazing. Let me give you an example of what I mean:

During the Iran/Iraq war, thousands upon thousands of unarmed Iranians charged forward into fortified Iraqi-held positions. They were mowed down by the Iraqis by the thousands with machine gun fire.

Most of these unarmed Iranians were younger men who had been told that some special blessing would be upon them if they would charge the Iraqis and then kill them with their own weapons. They wrapped red ribbons around their heads and joyfully went to their deaths. The slaughter was horrific.

As I say, the Iraqis are one thing but the Iranians are something else.

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 8:57 AM

That would be great Foehammer!

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 8:59 AM

Now Iran will try probably another trick to press Germany to swap Kazem Darabi, a terrorist, for a German Tourist, Donal Klein, who just got lost in Iranian waters while on a fishing trip.

Now they may put him on trial for spying, so that they can put more pressure on Germany.

I think it's time to prepare for massive demonstration infront of all Iranian Embassies. Iran is not legitimate and shall reap its harvest.The sooner the better.
http://www.civoc.com/society/?p=141

Posted by: Arnie at January 16, 2007 9:25 AM

UNICORN 62000-
"Do you trust the "Iraqi Government?" Aren't they as Islamic as Iran? And when facing us, Iran joins Syria via Hezbollah, etc."

Also, do you trust our young and courageous soldiers to this treasonous, lying, treacherous bunch? 'Working alongside' the very enemy we are fighting (Sadr & Co.)

Let the last 'surge' of blind idiocy begin.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at January 16, 2007 9:32 AM

Those books are actually an Olin Mills backdrop.

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at January 16, 2007 9:39 AM

Here is a piece that may be of interest with regard to Iran's current brigades of estesh-hadiyun (martyrdom-seekers).

There is a monument to those who died in the Iran/Iraq war in Tehran I think. It is a multi-tier fountain flowing with red water which signifies their blood.

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 10:01 AM

Here:

http://www.meforum.org/article/1059

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 10:02 AM

I think all those books behind tweedledee and tweedledum are Korans-different versions for different interpretations. That might explain how one Muslim clearly sees "behead all infidels" in his Koran while another says that's a misinterpretation-HIS version doesn't say that at all.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 16, 2007 10:25 AM

"Why is it that somehow I no longer seem to mind too much if thousands of mad young Iranians desire to impale themselves on Sunni-Iraqi bayonets?"

Well I dont mind that either but it does show the mindset we're dealing with. And according to the Middle East Forum link above, Iran has some 40,000 of these lunatics ready for assaults on Western cities. No worries. They bluff.

Posted by: Apache at January 16, 2007 10:27 AM

Frank,
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/014848.php#c335130

Great post.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at January 16, 2007 10:28 AM

All is well Mother. Sleep..... Sleep...... {from the Wizard of Oz}

Posted by: Anti Islamian at January 16, 2007 10:31 AM

Robert or Hugh:

When Condeleeza Rice was grilled last week by a congressional committee, one of the congressman said; since the Iraqi Government appears to be dominated by the Shia Sect including Motaqh-Al-Sadrs Shia group holding several seats in the Iraqi Parliament, Doesn't this invite the Shia dominated majority in Iran into Iraq?

Secretaries Rice's response was that the Iraqi Sheites where predominately Arab Sheites as opposed to the Iranians being Persian Sheites; she did not elaborate on that point.

Is there some clear distinctions between these two?

Posted by: Mackie at January 16, 2007 10:34 AM

Not to worry. Counter-Bodhisattva Bubble Boy will nuke Iran so he can hide his Iraq failure behind the skirts of a brief yet satisfying (to him) nuclear war.

Posted by: Card-carrying Buddhist at January 16, 2007 10:36 AM

Why is it that somehow I no longer seem to mind too much if thousands of mad young Iranians desire to impale themselves on Sunni-Iraqi bayonets?

Posted by: Mother Ecclesiastica at January 16, 2007 10:21 AM

You're not alone. I never quite understood all that anguish and outrage from the West when Saddam gassed the Iranians in his war with them. The West favored him and I know I hated the Iranians even then (something about an embassy problem from a few years previous). Plus, Saddam already had a fearsome reputation-what did people expect when he was fighting Satan Khomeini? The Iranians surely would have gassed the Iraqis if they had the capability back then. If you ask me, Saddam didn't wipe out enough of them-had he been more ruthless he might have wiped out Iran's current president in the process, saving us all a lot of trouble today.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 16, 2007 10:37 AM

Mackie asked:
"Secretaries Rice's response was that the Iraqi Sheites where predominately Arab Sheites as opposed to the Iranians being Persian Sheites; she did not elaborate on that point.

Is there some clear distinctions between these two?"

--

Arabs and Persians are completely different races with separate cultural ties. It is one of the foremost reasons that we should be fueling the fires of rebellion in Iran -- the young idealists there carrying around copies of the U.S. Constitution in their back pockets. The Persian factor is a large one -- national honor goes a very long way back and far beyond the first days that the Muslims invaded and took charge.

Destroy Iran. Free Persia.

Posted by: Foehammer at January 16, 2007 10:46 AM

Thanks for that link Joseph! Alot of that I did not know. I did know the Iranians were fanatics but not quite to that extent.

Posted by: Clair Voyant at January 16, 2007 10:50 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. military has sold forbidden equipment at least a half-dozen times to middlemen for countries - including Iran and China - who exploited security flaws in the Defense Department's surplus auctions. The sales include fighter jet parts and missile components.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070116/D8MMCNP80.html

Hey George, how many of our troops were killed in Iraq buy some of this equipment "accidentally" sold to Iran?

Yeah? And what about that $240 Billion in American taxpayer money that you gave away to Hizballah last year -- was it used to purchase weapons to kill our troops?

No? Oh that's right George, they didn't have to spend a penny of that money on weapons because you flat out gave them the weapons AND THE TRAINING!

All courtesy of the American taxpayer!

You're right George -- it all makes the world "safe for democracy."

That's right George -- we need a troop surge in Iraq but I can't imagine why?

Say George, why isn't YOUR puss in the picture with your buddies?

Why no George, why would that make me think that you were less patriot and loyal to your country than you are now?

Don't be silly George!

Posted by: witness at January 16, 2007 10:53 AM

Arabs and Persians are completely different races with separate cultural ties. It is one of the foremost reasons that we should be fueling the fires of rebellion in Iran -- the young idealists there carrying around copies of the U.S. Constitution in their back pockets. The Persian factor is a large one -- national honor goes a very long way back and far beyond the first days that the Muslims invaded and took charge.

Destroy Iran. Free Persia.

Posted by: Foehammer at January 16, 2007 10:46 AM

Foehammer, you make an excellent argument. I hope you are right. If Islam falls in Persia, the rest of it might come tumbling down everywhere else like a house of cards. Let's hope.

Posted by: A.I. Steamroller at January 16, 2007 10:57 AM

Thanks Foehammer:

Here are some comments made about the Arab/Iran conflict from the leaders of Jordan,Egypt, and Saudia Arabia.

The decision to topple Saddam Hussein and to empower Iraqi Shiites has appeared to tilt US policy toward Shiite regional power.Arab leaders in Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia have all warned against the creation of a so-called "Shia Crescent" in the Middle East.

Jordanian King Abdullah warned:"'It is in Iran's vested interest to have an Islamic republic of Iraq . and therefore the involvement you're getting by the Iranians is to achieve a government that is very pro-Iran,' Abdullah said.

"If pro-Iran parties or politicians dominate the new Iraqi government, he said, a new 'crescent' of dominant Shiite movements or governments stretching from Iran into Iraq, Syria and Lebanon could emerge, alter the traditional balance of power between the two main Islamic sects and pose new challenges to U.S. interests and allies."

Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal spoke at the Council on Foreign Relations:

"'We fought a war together to keep Iran out of Iraq after Iraq was driven out of Kuwait,' said Faisal, referring to the first Gulf War in 1991, when Saudi Arabia fought with US and other allied forces to liberate Kuwait after Iraq invaded.

"'Now we are handing the whole country over to Iran without reason,' he said."

Similarly, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak was quoted in April 2006 saying:
"Definitely Iran has influence on Shias. Shias are 65 per cent of the Iraqis [...] Most of the Shias are loyal to Iran, and not to the countries they are living in."

Posted by: Mackie at January 16, 2007 11:05 AM

I have had several comments over the past 3 years on my site from Persian bloggers. I intend to create a section of my new network dedicated to their cause at some point. Only so many hours in a day though. :/

Posted by: Foehammer at January 16, 2007 11:07 AM

"Iraqis, who have echoed Tehran's calls for the U.S. to release the five men, say the three-way standoff that has ensued reveals more about American meddling in Iraqi affairs than about Iranian influence."

......As I recall, neither the Iraqi nor the Iranian government called for the release of the American Embassy workers seized in 1979....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 16, 2007 11:19 AM

I was not clear in my last post. The link is to an article called "Iran's Suicide Brigades Terrorism Resurgent."
These are the same type of brigades used against Iraq.(I threw in the fountain tribute as mere trivia to show how Iran "honors" their maniacs)

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 11:19 AM

“the young idealists there carrying around copies of the U.S. Constitution in their back pockets”.

What we need to do is set up a free wireless network to blanket Persia. During WWII for example, the Nazis ran around Europe tracking down radios, they realized the danger radio/information posed to them. Radio is nothing compared to the Net regarding information on demand. If we could beam the Internet to them, just think of the damage it could do to the enemy there.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 11:20 AM

Joseph,

check this out: "Cheney's Warning to Iran: Keep Your Hands Off Iraq"

http://regimechangeiniran.com/

Posted by: Clair Voyant at January 16, 2007 11:27 AM

Islam will continue to grow stronger and its fire will continue to run on the rampant, for as long as the oil in the Middle East last, combined with the West's selling its own birthrights by giving the Muslims unbridled freedom in her land.

The oil, even with no additional discoveries, will last at least another 90 years. By then, the entire West will be Islamic.

Added to the Middle East oil revenues, the Muslims claim their birthrights in prolelitizing us in our land, at the same time imposing death punishment on anyone for prolelitizing Muslims in their land. The West happily grant the Muslims' claim of birthrights, in the name of "The Beauty of Democracy."

Who is giving whom the rope to hang himself?
It our rope--for our own neck!

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 11:28 AM

Im afraid Iraq doesnt understand democracy even if it invaded them, freed them from their dictator, gave them the ability to freely vote and run their own country. No no lets warm up to another dictator instead. I think the desert sun has fired their brains.

idiots.

ISLAM = NAZISM

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at January 16, 2007 11:31 AM

I can see it now, after the billions we have spent in Iraq, the American blood spilled there, the Iraqi's will cuddle up with and give themselves over to Iran in the end. What utter fools the US is, again.

Posted by: TheRegulator at January 16, 2007 11:49 AM

Nice picture, where’s Curlie?

Posted by: pez at January 16, 2007 11:50 AM

Is it just me?? or do these two clowns look as if someone is pointing a gun at them???

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 16, 2007 11:57 AM

If democracy takes effect in Iraq then they should do it with a one way street as the Islamic or communism system does, anyone trying to overtake or change the system within or should call it an act of war and be persecuted for trying to change it, at home or from a nation.

If they want to change it then the other country or sneaky politicians trying to flick the switches within the government should be thrown out or make war against to win because that is what it took for the USA and UK to try and win back their version of peace and I guess that is what the suicide bombing are about in Iraq and eventually it down to survival of who wants it more. Who ever wins should remember what it took to get to this mile stone if they don't recent the system that has now taken over the old one. Once established it should remain firm, if democracy allows the opposite party to just change it within a few months then what is the point? Democracy should be changed if you for it good if not you are banned that is why Islam and communism stand their grounds simple as.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at January 16, 2007 12:27 PM

Should we count on the Arab-Persian enmity to bail us out of trouble and prevent the formation of a "greater Iran"? I think not.
For starters, weren't Ahmed Chalabi & Co. living in IRAN, from whence they told us we would be welcomed with flowers? Not much enmity there.

The Iranians were found in NORTHERN Iraq, the KURDISH section. The Kurds are supposed to be our most reliable allies and they are SUNNI. What is an Iranian "consulate" doing in northern Iraq? So much for ethnic and religious differences.

The Sunnis make up almost forty percent of Iraq, divided between Arabs and Kurds. Is there no reason to think that they might, just might, unite against the Shiites?

One of the most enduring laws of human relations is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We thought that meant that we and the Iraqi Shiites had common enemies in Saddam and Tehran, making for the start of an interesting friendship. Instead, we're finding that, for all their internal differences, the various Muslim sects have more in common with each other than they ever will with us. It's Islam uber alles.

Posted by: PMK at January 16, 2007 12:33 PM

I mixed the last bit up rewrite:

Democracy should be changed to a one way system to preserve it and ban what should challenge it's freedoms that is why Islam and communism stand their grounds simple as. If Democracy gives in too much to it self one day if the trend does not change we may as well be called sitting ducks waiting for the hungry crocks. That is why when Hammas won it was ridiculous not like they are spreading democracy now.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at January 16, 2007 12:37 PM

Two mugly udders!

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at January 16, 2007 12:44 PM

Let them kill each other the world, especially the west should never have intervened during the iran/iraq war, beast killing beast.
We should withdraw to the Kurdish area, help the estabishment of a Kurdish state, arm & train them,in exchange for basing facilities, a secular constitution, complete freedom of religion.

The sunni arabs can fight the shia whether iranian or arab.
Let them destroy each other, they will diminish themselves.
We should encourage the Iranian people to overthrow the mullahs and replace it with a secular democracy.
We will have 3 allies then Israel, Kurdistan and a new Iran.

This from the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6261875.stm

Posted by: apostate_islam at January 16, 2007 12:44 PM

At its conception of the democratized Iraq, America said to the Iraqis, “You may chose whatever form of democracy you like, in which you also may write your constitution however you like.” Lo and behold, they designated Islam as the main source of legislation, a departure from the model set down by the US.

Before Americans work too hard to find solutions, we must first beat ourselves out of our own folly.

The leader of American militia once said, “Our government badly needed great spanking.”

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 12:47 PM

Come on SMILE you guys!! You have so much to be happy about -- show us those pearly whites.

Posted by: champ at January 16, 2007 12:57 PM

Hard to tell who's happier about this merger.

Posted by: champ at January 16, 2007 12:58 PM

These literal demonic waves are like tidal waves in they can not be controlled, but America can ride them to it's advantage if the government does so with care.
Worse case is the entire region implodes, but America still has the Kurds, Turks and Jews as allies. (Turks and Kurds hate Arabs and Persians....Arabs hate Persians and vice versa.) So they will all be cutting each other to bits.
Worst case is the toppling of the regimes and the Eurasian empires of Europe, Russia and China get involved and.....well in the Bible it is called Armageddon or Hill of Megiddo for one big fight.
Christians though believe Jesus returns as the Warrior King of Revelation to bring peace which is the best case.
Events are going to play out as they are intended. Americans need to start playing the hand dealt, deal with our security and become a better moral people as the rest of the world when it blows there is not stopping it. Events are progressing exactly along the lines the Bible predicts...not the koran.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at January 16, 2007 1:05 PM

Worse case is the entire region implodes, but America still has the Kurds, Turks and Jews as allies. (Turks and Kurds hate Arabs and Persians....Arabs hate Persians and vice versa.) So they will all be cutting each other to bits.
Posted by: Lame Cherry

Don't bet on it. The Turks stabbed us in the back on the eve of the Iraq invasion. Allies? Hmmph!!!

Turks and Kurds hate Arabs and Persians?
Then the picture at the top of this article should never have been taken. Muslims are just like us. We had no trouble linking up with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Arabs and Persians, Turks and Kurds will have no problem working together to defeat their common enemy: the West. They may destroy one another in the end, but it will only be after we have met our maker, unless we realize we have no friends in the Muslim world and treat all as questionable until they prove they're on our side.
Kemal Ataturk is dead. The nation he built is dead. A new one has taken its place, and it's not our friend.

Posted by: PMK at January 16, 2007 1:22 PM

Nice picture of the organ grinder and his monkey.

Anyway,

Stay the course in Iraq. Destroy Sadr and his militia then pull out. Hand over Iraq to Maliki and let him do what he will with it. If he gives it to Iran, so be it.

Let the Sunnis complain. Too bad for them. Let them spend money and blood for a change. We have done their dirty work for far too long.

Let the Islamic in-fighting begin. A good Islamist is a dead one. Cut all aid to Islam dominated countries. Finally realize that we have absolutely no real allies in countries where Islam dominates.

Shut down immigration completely. Build a militarily fortified wall around the entire US. Expel the UN.

Absolutely no more money or aid, whether militarial or other, to anyone unless it directly serves our interests and our interests alone. Declare to the world that a relationship with the US is a privilage, not a right.

Use our military wisely. Reconnaissance, bomb, rinse and repeat. Wait for the cry from the UN that doesn't come. They were already shown the door.

That's a start.

Posted by: awake at January 16, 2007 1:26 PM

These guys all knew Iran could end up the beneficiary to this war. It was a risk they all were willing to take, and they lost. Where are they now? All resigned, eh? Except this guy:

Zalmay Khalilzad, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq

He get a promotion. After helping Iraq to hook up with Iran, he is now moving on the the United Nations. I wonder what damage he could do there, probably a great deal.

Thanks Mr. Bush, what a great President! Such awesome judgment!

Where is that Al Talal fellow anyway? The Club of Rome President? Or bin Hussein? There is still time to restore the monarchy to Sunni Pretenders, and keep Iraq western. At least then they won't be our worst enemies.

Posted by: Kay at January 16, 2007 1:28 PM

Those 5 Iranians were caught in Irbil which is part of the Turdistan region. The Turds are the ones who really like americans. now the turdish-iraqis are mad at us. what a bunch of friends we have.

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at January 16, 2007 1:29 PM

I agree with you 100%, Foehammer on Tom Tancredo. He is maybe one of our last hopes.

http://www.americanshavehadenough.org

Nice title for Tancredo's website, isn't it?

Give him a note, tell him you support him, he needs support desperately.

Posted by: Kay at January 16, 2007 1:36 PM

Off topic:

Fodder for CAIR

Ummah News Links

Posted by: ummahnewslinks at January 16, 2007 1:47 PM

Normally the photographer says, "Say Cheese!" before taking a picture, but this time he said, "Allah Loves You!"

Posted by: champ at January 16, 2007 1:52 PM

Why all the books in the shelf behind them?
That supposed to make them look intelligent?
Why bother and pretend when you have the Koran?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami

Did you notice the mixed message in that picture ?

All the books on the shelf are twice as big as either there heads.

Hmmmmm.....

Posted by: thehappyinfidel at January 16, 2007 1:54 PM

arjun.sevak-

Thanks much, arjun.sevak.

Posted by: Frank at January 16, 2007 1:57 PM

Tancredo is great. However we are not at the point of last hopes and when we are my money is on the USA and her citizens. Even if only 50% of Americans will stand and fight that is more than enough, 150 million more or less. We know how to fight and how to win. Look at the casualties of WWII, America the number 1 Allied combatant in terms of manpower and equipment, yet look at the combat loss comparison.
http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/casualty.html

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 2:01 PM

The books are Ahmadinejad's "The Holocaust Never Happened Because...." library. And the "How To Make A Nuclear Bomb in Record Time" books. And the series "Despots For Dummies"....

Posted by: Muzzl'em at January 16, 2007 2:08 PM

a rare photo of ahmadinejad without a bearded , by spectacled, turbine headed ayatollah standing behind him... The old fella may be on his deathbed (or already dead).

I think the Ayatollahs are actually running the show anyway!!..

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 16, 2007 2:11 PM

Oil’s down $2 a barrel today, to $50. I remember the Saudi Ambassador noting that if conflict broke out with the Shia, they would drop prices below Iran’s profit point which was, if I recall correctly, $50 a barrel.

Coincidence?

Posted by: pez at January 16, 2007 2:11 PM

Mother Ecclesastica, "Just in passing: I am very much in favour of a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Tehran."

For what purpose? To incinerate millions of our ALLIES or destroy the infrastructure of our ALLIES? Our allies are enslaved by a dictator. They are being held hostage. You should liberate them, not incinerate them.

Yes, by incinerating Tehran you will also destroy enemies. Whether that is 10% of Tehran or 50% we have no way of knowing. Why not just liberate Iran, give weapons to the x% who are our allies, and tell them to either commit genocide against the (100-x)% of their countrymen who are our mutual enemies, or face 100% nuclear annihilation?

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 16, 2007 2:15 PM

The Democrats are desperate to find someone to surrender to. The photo above to the Democrats is entitled,

Missed Opportunity for American Surrender

The Democratic panic to surrender is so great they would let Iran shoot a Russian Sunburn anti-ship missile at one of our aircraft carriers, or maybe best 3 out of 5.

Posted by: Old Atlantic at January 16, 2007 2:19 PM

ssa, "At its conception of the democratized Iraq, America said to the Iraqis, “You may chose whatever form of democracy you like, in which you also may write your constitution however you like.” Lo and behold, they designated Islam as the main source of legislation, a departure from the model set down by the US." Before Americans work too hard to find solutions, we must first beat ourselves out of our own folly."

It wasn't folly. It is absolute proof that the Iraqis are not under the control of the US despite all those who like to claim that the Iraq government is a puppet government. It is not strategic at this point in history to start ramming things down people's throats. If we need to start forcing people to do things differently, we can always come back. They can't stop us from re-invading. In the meantime it is more strategic to just scientifically observe what happens when people are given their freedom. We need to have a deep understanding of this before we make a final decision on how to solve the problem. Which may or may not include genocide.

Bush has done everything perfectly correct and I am happy to defend any actions he has taken. BTW, I'm Australian.

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 16, 2007 2:25 PM

Meanwhile here in the USA the decendents of Benedict Arnold continue to edge closer to... the edge.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/01/feds_in_bed_wit.html

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 2:27 PM

Foehammer, You beat me to it but since it is so important am going to repeat, anyway: http://www.teamtancredo.com/

Posted by: Alert at January 16, 2007 2:27 PM

Interesting comment near the end of the Article about not talking to Iran.
"Under the sway of Neo-Conservative Intellectuals who see Iran as a danger to Israel and the US."

Does that mean everyone else who isn't classified as Neo-Conservative Doesn't see Iran as a Threat?

I always figured that when a Leader of a Country said they wanted to Destroy you. You could pretty much take them at their word.

Lets see here, Smuggling between Iran and Iraq. big surprise. With the Iranian Revolutionary Guard minding the border. I bet my bottom Dollar they were in Iraq to help stem the flow of banded Western Goodies. Doesn't really matter tho. With Ineedajob forking over 2 billion to prop up ol' Hugo, will keep the Iranians from sinful habits.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at January 16, 2007 2:37 PM

TGUSA; Good point, the number of American casualties in Iraq is 3,000 approx. Today the UN claimed that 34,000 Iraqis have died in sectarian violence alone.

The American soldier is so feared because he is so effective. They give a lot more than they take.

A while back I was watching one of my favorite shows "Gunsmoke"

There was a story about a pioneer woman who was faced with a very pregnant Indian girl. She had every reason to hate Indians as they had tortured her two sons to death.
Matt Dillon was being chased by some bad guys and a gunfight ensued. The woman of the house is in the root cellar with the Indian gal, she helps the baby out with one hand and picks up a Colt 45 with the other and shoots one of the bad guys dead as he comes down the basement stairs.

For some reaason this kind of shows me what an enemy from without or within is going to have to deal with in America. We won't go down easily.

I have a news ticker on the top of my screen.
Alright, which one of you guys pulled the fire alarm at the house of reps? Bet that scared their pants off!

Posted by: auntbea at January 16, 2007 2:55 PM

I have a real life story, over 125 years ago when my ancestors were moving west, one night having to stop at a river they would have to ford and making camp. An Indian wandered into my families encampment and sat down, not knowing if this Indian was hostile and not having any desire to be scalped my GGGGrandfather sat up all night just watching the Indian, and the Indian watching him. In the morning they both went their separate ways never to see each other again. No killing, No hostility. Not exactly what you hear or see regarding the relationship between Indians and Americans is it?

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 3:19 PM

TGUSA

I have heard similar stories when I spent some time in the midwest.
My Grandmother was a Cherokee who was adopted by a white family, with her sister. Then they hid in the wood pile while carpetbaggers murdered that family. They were then adopted by another white family.

She then married into an Irish family. You don't want to mess with me when I've had a little firewater.

Posted by: auntbea at January 16, 2007 3:34 PM

To nuke or not to nuke...

Abraham Pleads for Sodom
genesis 18:32

32 Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?"
He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."

We know what happened at the end of the story anyway. Its an old question with an explosive outcome.

Posted by: squire at January 16, 2007 3:38 PM

What do these two faces say to you?

Achmeindinnerjacket we know what he's about: wannabe Mahdi, wannabe little Hitler--just like Saddam was a wannabe Stalin. As for the Iraqi, I'd trust him as much as I'd trust Achmeindinnerjacket to bring a nice present to my Barmitzvah. (I hope he hasn't been invited to that. He hasn't, has he?)

Posted by: unicorns62000 at January 16, 2007 3:40 PM

Paul Edwards,

I have not a problem with the Bush Doctrine; however, America’s resources aren’t infinite; therefore, while it is a good policy while giving total freedom to Iraqis to implement Islam in all their legislation, America should at least first secure the border, wipeout An-Sal-Al-Sunna and the Al-Sadr, and say, “You may do whatever, only when not under the expense of American tax dollar, or while under the protection of American military,” before turning the interim government into Iraqis’ hands.

No matter how nice we want the Muslims to see us, we must not forget: American lives are not free; it demands practicality and good results.

To blindly desire to be seen as sweat-heart to the deceitfully Muslims, is the folly of Liberalism.

I have fought under stupid policies, but I will never fight again under it, unless our country reverts back to more aggressive Churchillian attitude. That is to fight with two hands at our choosing---not to fight with one hand tied in the back, under their preferences.

Today we are plainly stupid; I will not ever give myself again for the stupid generation. I am not impressed by the immolation for the ungrateful Muslims.

I love Bush’s fighting spirit, but I hate his rules of engagement. I want a brave and smart America, but not a nice and stupid America.

Wake up Paul: The poll shows 80% of Iraqis have contempt for the presence of American military in their country.

Perhaps, it’s time that there should be at least one Australian die for every American die in Iraq.

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 3:45 PM

Are there citizens willing to die for a cause or their country? Yes. So if it is their choice who are any of us to say, let’s replace Americans with Australians? I find a lot of your attitudes and ideas wholly offensive to the American way. Perhaps you need to spend some time figuring out exactly what an American is instead of telling your new found country what to do. If I decide to serve my country through good and bad it is my business not anyone else’s. America should be smart, tough, kind to our friends( one great one is Australia) and ruthless towards our enemies, both foreign and domestic as always. Anything less is not, I repeat not, American. You say you will not give yourself for the stupid generation? So in your anger you will blow the rest of us off w/o a second thought? No thanks, I don’t need that kind of fair weather American. Talk to me when you are ready to go all the way not just when it is convenient or safe for you.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 4:08 PM

tgusa,
Where did I say,"let’s replace Americans with Australians?"

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 4:27 PM

I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq from the very begining. I based my opposition on the fact that we would be dealing with Muslims, and Muslims are unlike any other people. They are irrational down to their finger tips. Their morals are irrational, their laws are irrational, their culture is irrational and their attitudes towards non-Muslim peoples are irrational.

We were told that the Iraqi people would cheer our troops when they rolled into Baghdad -- which they did, and which I knew they would. But I also knew that that honeymoon would soon be over -- which is was.

Today we are no longer the Liberators we once were. We are Infidels occupying the sacred soil of an Islamic country.

Forgotten is the brutal Dictatorship of Saddam Hussein, the 300,000 people buried in mass graves, the torture chambers and paper shreaders.

Iraqis prefer the Iranians because they're Muslims. They prefer Dictators, so long as they're Muslims. They prefer to suffer under Islam than to be free under Infidels.

It's irrational, but that's the kind of people we're deaing with.

Too bad our leaders in Washington couldn't see that before we started down this yellow brick road.

Posted by: rational at January 16, 2007 4:33 PM

tgusa,

I would welcome your argument, but not to talk to me, for the talking per se.

You seem to counter out of spite, not with reason. I am not impressed by your emotion

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 4:35 PM

“Perhaps, it’s time that there should be at least one Australian die for every American die in Iraq”.

If you didn’t mean it just say so, everyone writes things wrongly or their posts don’t entirely reflect their opinions, there is no dishonor in admiting you are wrong. Otherwise what would you have me believe? I’m not against you, unless you are against me. I am trying to figure out how you came to your conclusions and why I should count on you in the future if you are so quick to quit on the rest of us.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 4:37 PM

Well?

And try to answer at least one of my questions or save your next post for some sucker. And thats not emotion, I can turn it on or off, it was never on.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 4:50 PM

tgusa,

6.5 years has been more than enough of a giving. You must realise, when I quit totally I would be quiting on my family. I have a son who was born here; I have my wife whose forefarther fought the American revolution. Almost more than half my family serves military.

Now, you cannot said that you are more American than I or the rest of my family.

When have I been an Anti-America?

Do you prefer the Hajis more than I, a conservative Christian who want to see the USA preserved for the next generations?

I am for a smart fight, but not for squandering the inherited freedom and resources.

I don't your your approval for saying, "Stupidity is not acceptable."

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 4:53 PM

You know what your posts read like to me? A person that is struggling with something. Are radical preachers from your homeland that are now here in the USA pressuring you to rejoin their death cult, or else? I know many ME Christians have similar ideas to the islamists. You are now in the USA make up your mind, there should be no worry of abandoning your family, if you are sincere.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 5:16 PM

why I should count on you in the future if you are so quick to quit on the rest of us.

Posted by: tgusa

I will do for the rest, but not including you.
It's your turn to go to Iraq.

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 5:49 PM

Oh not for me eh? I have done my duty and much much more for ingrates just like you. I am going to say it, and I dont care if it is deleted... Fuck you, I don't need you or yours to stand for me or any of mine, you are an asshole and should never be granted citizenship. Go home and spare the rest of us the nightmare of your existence. Do you understand? I try not to lower myself to islamist levels but in your case I am willing to bend the rules.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 5:55 PM

A most quotable quote:

"Reconnaissance, bomb, rinse and repeat."

hahaha! I love it!

Posted by: Joseph at January 16, 2007 6:19 PM

....is it hot in here, or is it just me?

Posted by: champ at January 16, 2007 6:30 PM

“Almost more than half my family serves military”.

Yes I know you are hanging around AF bases and the Academy, probably working at the commissary or the dry cleaners listening to all you can. And that is precisely why I won’t allow one of my sons, a someday great American to go to the academy. Oh he wants to go alright, and he is one of the top students internationally but no chance I will allow one of my boys to get anywhere near that situation as it is now. I care too much about him!
I see what is going on in that latecomer institution, and w/o Christian tradition,
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2005/10/god-and-man-at-air-force-academy.html
such as they have in the Navy and Marines I’m not surprised you are working there.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 6:35 PM

tgusa,

Since you are an unprinciple too old man, and cannot speak civilly, in spite my encouragement to speak reasonably, so please let your beloved son hanging around AF bases in Iraq or the Academy, or working at the commissary or the dry cleaners listening to all he can.

For your excitement, I prefer you go there instead of your son; preferably, you drive the military fuel trucks on Iraqi highway, for a little expose to a Iranina Shaped Charge. You will love me, when you need the morphine injection.

Come on, come on board. Let's be friends.

Posted by: ssa at January 16, 2007 7:06 PM

Ok, you have been here 6.5 years( keeping track?) and you are already hurling insults and generally behaving like… no better word for it but an islamist. Tell me ssa are you an islamist?
Im not too ole for you although I would have to sacarifice some principles in doing so. Besides if you get me my dogs will be very mad, I feed them pizza.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 7:33 PM

And No,
If I were to get blown up, which is quite possible nowadays, always has been though. I will use my own clothing to stem the bleeding, thank you very much. Friends?

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 7:41 PM

Cmon ssa,
Break your pattern, respond to a question when it is posed. You think driving a fuel truck in Iraq is dangerous? I once lived in the deadliest city in America, didn't even know it until I moved and read about it. Now, if you want me to in the future when we are in total war drive a truck anywhere, anytime, as long as I know we are not stopping for **** you can count on me. There are after all worse things than death.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 8:12 PM

tgusa -- I would like to know where the deadliest city in America is. Where is it?

Posted by: champ at January 16, 2007 8:28 PM

champ,
At that time it was Palo Alto Ca. the murder capital of the USA, and I’m not black, yet I survived.!

Be advised,
ssa=islamist infiltrator.
“Preferably, you drive the military fuel trucks on Iraqi highway, for a little expose to a Iranina Shaped Charge”

“I will do for the rest, but not including you.
It's your turn to go to Iraq”.

“6.5 years has been more than enough of a giving”.

“I would welcome your argument, but not to talk to me, for the talking per se”.

Whether he realizes it or not he still harbors the old sympathies of his former country. If we had more Jews in America and less of him we would be better off.

Posted by: tgusa at January 16, 2007 8:39 PM

Paul Edwards,

Just who do you think are our allies in Tehran? Certainly not the people. They are not ruled by a dictator. They had a revolution and they CHOSE that form of government. If they are having buyers remorse now, that's just too bad...for them.

You ask:
"Why not just liberate Iran, give weapons to the x% who are our allies, and tell them to either commit genocide against the (100-x)% of their countrymen who are our mutual enemies, or face 100% nuclear annihilation?"

I ask:
"Why not just broadcast to the Iranian people that if they are so tired of this government they can do as they did in 1979 and throw them out?"

If they're not willing to do so, then they're just not that oppressed. They're more nationalistic than you realize. They complain about their government just as we do ours, but let someone ELSE complain about their leaders and they get their backs up. The many demonstrations that took place over the last few weeks were the acts of spoiled children complaining that they weren't getting their milk and cookies.
They can have a Shiite theocracy that supports terrorist groups or relations with the US. Which is it? If they want this government out, then let THEM do something about it. There's such a thing as revolution. They did it before. They can do it again. Until then, ta ta.

Posted by: PMK at January 16, 2007 8:46 PM

Thanks tgusa -- at least Palo Alto is a good 5 1/2 hours from where WE live!

We live in one of the "safest" cities in CA, and yet my 19 year-old son was held up at GUN POINT while coming home from work one night -- only two blocks from our home. Even the police department was shocked over the incident. Thank God he was smart and did exactly what they said.

Anyway....is any city truly safe?

Posted by: champ at January 16, 2007 9:10 PM

If that headline with that photo doesn't make those "let's invade Iraq" brigade bury their heads in the sand in shame , then what on earth will.

Yep , things are going great , The US is stuck in a quagmire , the Iranians are winning , and the West is going bankrupt trying to fund this.

From AuntyBea : "Good point, the number of American casualties in Iraq is 3,000 approx. Today the UN claimed that 34,000 Iraqis have died in sectarian violence alone."

And why did these men give their lives ? I'll help you out here . So that these nutters can get the vote and.... surprise , surprise......vote in Iranian stooges who talk of how they hate the West and love the Ayatollah .

Read the F*&^&%^G article FFS

AuntB : "The American soldier is so feared because he is so effective. They give a lot more than they take."

And now they've rented themselves out to the Iranians . Why don't we give them the keys to Fort Knox while we're about it , we may as well .

We are doing their dirty work .

And you're AOK with that?

AuntBea :"A while back I was watching one of my favorite shows "Gunsmoke"

Ah , "Gunsmoke" , stories about goodies with white hats who are cleanly shaven and baddies with black hats who don't shave : simple stuff . Real simple stuff

Scripts that make "The Hello Kitty Fun Hour" seem gritty and cynical

I have a sneaking suspicion you like to apply this cheesy drivel to the real world . You do , don't you ,partlicularly to the parts of the world where we have no earthly idea what's happening . And we never will .

F*&k , and we wonder why the Iranians are laughing all the way to the F*&^%^G mosque .

God help us

Posted by: ewha1 at January 16, 2007 10:22 PM

Every time I see this picture the name Hugh Fitzgerald comes into my mind. He says...

See I told you so...

Then I laugh. You have to becuase without laughter how can you digest the picture.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at January 16, 2007 11:53 PM

Might just as well stay in Iraq. Make it easier to launch attacks into Iran, who we're going to have to deal with sooner than later. This would enable us to not only save fuel - but we could burn Iraqi oil - thank-you! Al Sadr won't do anything - he'll be a good boy as long as we stay in Baghdad. He's not going to attack our troops head-on unless he has terminal cancer or gets into a bad piece of lamb (like the "one and only prophet did - once!).

Posted by: vorsensrak at January 17, 2007 12:20 AM

At that time it was Palo Alto Ca. the murder capital of the USA, and I’m not black, yet I survived.!

When I used to watch the local news (I don't nowadays), there wasn't much crime news from there, as much as from San Francisco's Mission District. But I think the murder capital of the USA is now the capital.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 17, 2007 12:54 AM

Paul Edwards said

Our allies are enslaved by a dictator. They are being held hostage. You should liberate them, not incinerate them.

The Iranian people are not our allies, staunch or otherwise. We've been told this "enslaved hostages" fairytale before. But instead of those promised rose petals strewn before our soldiers' feet, we got IED's. So what leads you to think that the Iranians disagree with their leaders? Because the Iranians, like all human beings that ever existed anywhere in the world, must aspire to Judeo-Christian values like peace, freedom, democracy, tolerance? Because they're just like us?

Bush has done everything perfectly correct

That opinion is in the minority, and shrinking.

Posted by: special_guest at January 17, 2007 4:29 AM

"All the books on the shelf are twice as big as either there heads."

...the books probably hold more knowledge...besides, I would wager neither one of the dolts have read a book in a long time.....probably haven't even opened a book..... BY THE WAY, Musims are notorious for destroying books, libraries and print shops....Muslims destroy knowledge....Muslims forbid knowledge...Muslims allow only the indoctrination material that they approve....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 17, 2007 6:19 AM

Assalamau laikum Champ,

You ask Anyway...."is any city truly safe?"

Well you can always come to visit me in Lahore.

Mushi has directed our tourism ministry to attract one million foreign tourists to Pakistan this year.

Why not visit to see an abundance of tourist attractions, the stunning mountain peaks in the north, the Gandhara civilisation, the many shrines and the British colonisition.

Ofcourse, there is the question of what tourists can do after a day of sightseeing. You peoples from non-Muslim cultures will want to drink a glass of beer or wine with their meals as a matter of course. In the evenings, perhaps you would like to go to a movie, a play, a concert or a nightclub.

Well don't worry I'll keep the beers well stocked up in the fridge, I don't drink but do enjoy the occassional glass of wine on the quiet (particularily when Anwer comes to visit the confines of my mind).

The one reedeming feature all Pak has (apart from Islam), is tolerance. Peoples do accept that visitors from different cultures will dress and behave differently. They also understand that their faith is not endangered by the proximity of non-Muslims.

In your mind there will also be the question of image. In our context, the rest of the world sees Pakistan as a violent, backward land where the mullahs and the military rule.

Although we who live here see another Pakistan, the view from abroad is far from friendly.

The stream of ‘travel advisories’ western governments issue to their citizens from time to time. Invariably, these contain warnings not to visit Pakistan unless it is absolutely necessary.

This message is underlined by insurance companies that either refuse to insure visitors to our shores, or raise their premiums.

Despite any perceived threats, the truth is that most foreigners who come as guests of Pakistani friends usually have a very good time.

Another reality is that Pak lacks the infrastructure to cope with significant numbers of foreign tourists. Apart for a handful of expensive hotels, there are few establishments that cater to budget tourism...but you don't have to worry about that...you can stay with me.

Don't worry about possible sectarian violence, (especially in the scenic mountain areas), there is not much of it really, and we usually get to know about it in advance...and so we can avoid it or have a look from a safe place...the choice is yours.

I won't be able to help you with our chronic traffic gridlock in the cities, and some endemic anti-western sentiment ...but you will be with me ...so all will be OK and enjoyable.

Posted by: Naseem at January 17, 2007 6:48 AM

"[B]ooks on the shelf..." - interesting idea, so I decided to take a minute to analyze the picture. Here's some things I came up with - do they have any significance? I'd bet $.99 of a dollar they don't (well, maybe #5), but I thought it would be kinda fun!

1. Iranian flag for Ahmadinejad appears to be in the foreground compared to Khalilzad and the Iraqi flag.

2. The top shelf on Khalilzad's side has three books on it (one laying down) and on Ahmadinejad there is only one (laying down).

3. The middle book (gray ones) on the center shelf has a gap between it and the others, as if it is supporting all the books on either side.

4. Only five of the middle books (gray ones) have what appears to be some white marking.

5. Ahmadinejad has 8 microphones in front of him while Khalilzad has 5 - there appears to be 6 in the middle.

6. Khalilzad is wearing a tie; Ahmadinejad is not.

They say a picture says a thousand words, but I'm a little short. Did I miss anything interesting?;)

Posted by: IpseDixit at January 17, 2007 7:19 AM

Aunt Bea thanks Mother E.

Raised some hackles with that one, didn't I? I think it is funny that when someone feels threatened by the ideology of what I was illustrating they attacked the simplicity of the program.
That ability to get up every day and live by the simple laws of good and bad are what made this country what it is. The point is NOT AlL of Americans are blinded to those concepts. The ones that are make betters news stories, cinema and politicans.

TGUSA Liked your running battle with ssa. I have studied things like body language and seeing through lies for professional reasons.
I have noticed a tendancy to start with carefully written posts that quickly degenerate to an inability to use grammer or syntax when these guys feel they are losing the argument.

Good Islamist spotting technique.

Aunt Bea studied graphic design at one the best art schools in the USA.
About the Photo.

The post that pointed out some of the things not quite 'kosher' about it may have a good point. I wish I knew more about how to use a computer to analyse a photo, but my first and continueing impresstion is that these two guys were not sitting side by side.

One more point. It look like the ID things on the mircophones are repeated on both sides but without any logic.

I am pretty sure the books are shopped in. Take a good look at the shoulders of both. One can almost see the cuts.

Posted by: auntbea at January 17, 2007 8:36 AM

ssa, "America’s resources aren’t infinite"

Sure, so we need to employ the resources available in the most efficient manner.

"America should at least first secure the border"

This is not possible.

"wipeout An-Sal-Al-Sunna"

That is already being done.

"and the Al-Sadr"

Al Sadr was filling a security vacuum because the US (correctly) disbanded the old security forces. It should be an Iraqi decision to remove him, which appears to be on the verge of happening.

"before turning the interim government into Iraqis’ hands."

It was important to avoid an Iraqi vs US war. Turning the government over to the Iraqis avoided such a conflict. It was the least worst option available at the time.

"No matter how nice we want the Muslims to see us, we must not forget: American lives are not free; it demands practicality and good results."

The results are already there. A massive turnout at the elections, 300 political parties to choose from, an unending supply of volunteers to the security services, and the Iraqis increasingly taking care of their own security.

"To blindly desire to be seen as sweat-heart to the deceitfully Muslims, is the folly of Liberalism."

Muslims don't speak with one voice. That's why you have Muslims killing Muslims in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

"I have fought under stupid policies"

The policies are not stupid, even if you don't understand the logic behind them.

"but I will never fight again under it, unless our country reverts back to more aggressive Churchillian attitude."

The victory that Churchill aimed for in WWII was accomplished in 3.5 weeks in Iraq. There was nothing wrong with the way that war was fought, with the loss of 100 US lives. After that complete and utter military victory, there was a need for something totally different. Something that Churchill didn't have to contend with - a need to create a radical change in Arab Muslim culture. This is not an easy thing to do. Setting up fresh security forces were part of that process. Carpet-bombing random civilians (terrorism) is not.

"not to fight with one hand tied in the back, under their preferences."

The US only needs to hold the fort for long enough for pro-freedom Iraqis to step up to the plate. The Iraqis can choose to fight any way they want. The US should try to keep its hands clean.

"Today we are plainly stupid; I will not ever give myself again for the stupid generation. I am not impressed by the immolation for the ungrateful Muslims."

Muslims don't speak with one voice. They were actually evenly split between feeling liberated and feeling humiliated.

"I love Bush’s fighting spirit, but I hate his rules of engagement. I want a brave and smart America, but not a nice and stupid America."

America is not being stupid. History should be written that America used minimal force while the Iraqis did (whatever the hell they want of their own free will). At this stage in history, I don't want America to impose anything at all on the Iraqis. Just enable the Iraqis to fight for their own freedom.

"The poll shows 80% of Iraqis have contempt for the presence of American military in their country."

The Iraqi people are lacking critical thinking skills. Regardless, they support their own security forces and are volunteering in droves which is all that matters.

"Perhaps, it’s time that there should be at least one Australian die for every American die in Iraq."

Australia is a much smaller country than the US. Australia fought in WWI and WWII long before America turned up. After 9/11, Australia tried hard to get to the top of Bin Laden's hit list, and indeed, we got hit in Bali. Nevertheless, it is true that America is doing more in the cause of freedom than Australia. I have asked my Prime Minister to do more, and you can see my letter here:

http://antisubjugator.blogspot.com/2006/12/abandon-australia.html

I don't know what else to do to relieve the burden from the US. The free world is very dependent on the US at the moment and there is no quick fix to that problem.

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 17, 2007 9:35 AM

rational, "I based my opposition on the fact that we would be dealing with Muslims, and Muslims are unlike any other people. They are irrational down to their finger tips. Their morals are irrational, their laws are irrational, their culture is irrational and their attitudes towards non-Muslim peoples are irrational."

That is exactly the reason why you should have SUPPORTED the invasion! You need to change this irrationality and lack of morality or else you will face asymetrical attacks in perpetuity. You either need to change these people, or commit genocide against them. You MUST do one or the other. Changing them is the humane option. And if you had morals yourself you would have been trying to liberate them long before 9/11.

"Forgotten is the brutal Dictatorship of Saddam Hussein"

It's not forgotten. Iraqis were cheering his execution just a couple of weeks ago.

"They prefer Dictators, so long as they're Muslims."

No they don't. They support having a democracy and turned up to vote in far larger numbers than in the US, despite the fact that they had to face terrorist threats.

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 17, 2007 9:35 AM

PMK, "Just who do you think are our allies in Tehran?"

The majority of the population.

"Certainly not the people."

Your certainties are incorrect.

"They are not ruled by a dictator. They had a revolution and they CHOSE that form of government. If they are having buyers remorse now, that's just too bad...for them."

That revolution was by a minority. Most had nothing to do with it. And even more of a minority in terms of people who are alive today.

"Why not just broadcast to the Iranian people that if they are so tired of this government they can do as they did in 1979 and throw them out?"

No need to broadcast. They already tried. In 1999. They got slaughtered by helicopters, the same thing that happened to the Iraqis in 1991. It is not possible for civilians to overthrow a properly organized modern military. It is a TECHNICAL IMPOSSIBILITY. They TRIED ANYWAY and they got SLAUGHTERED for your amusement.

"If they're not willing to do so, then they're just not that oppressed."

They are oppressed. Just as the Iraqis were. Just as the Soviets were. There's not a damn thing you can do about it. Even when it's you personally being tortured or raped by your own government, there's no a DAMN THING you can do about it. Just as those living under the Nazis couldn't do a damn thing either. Oppressing people is a straightforward technical task for the military. You've been reading too many comic books.

"They're more nationalistic than you realize."

We heard the same rubbish about the Afghans.

"They complain about their government just as we do ours, but let someone ELSE complain about their leaders and they get their backs up."

According to what opinion poll taken in an environment of freedom and confirmed via a secret ballot?

"If they want this government out, then let THEM do something about it."

They need help.

"There's such a thing as revolution."

There's such a thing as automatic weapons.

"They did it before."

Because the Shah wasn't prepared to mow down unarmed civilians with automatic weapons. The Mullahs are.

"They can do it again."

No they can't. They tried anyway, just to prove it to you that they can't.

"Until then, ta ta."

Thank God the Mullahs are developing nukes so you will be forced to come to their assistance. God forbid you come to their assistance because you have sympathy for Iranian girls being raped by their own government. Do you not even have basic morality? Are you a Muslim or something?

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 17, 2007 9:45 AM

special_guest, "The Iranian people are not our allies, staunch or otherwise."

Some are, some aren't. They don't speak with one voice. It's actually racist to think that they do.

"We've been told this "enslaved hostages" fairytale before."

It's not a fairy tale.

"But instead of those promised rose petals strewn before our soldiers' feet, we got IED's."

The number of people planting IEDs are not even 1% of the Iraqi population. You are a racist for judging Iraq by what less than 1% does.

"So what leads you to think that the Iranians disagree with their leaders?"

The fact that the Iranian dictatorship doesn't allow free and fair elections because they know they will lose.

"Because the Iranians, like all human beings that ever existed anywhere in the world, must aspire to Judeo-Christian values like peace, freedom, democracy, tolerance? Because they're just like us?"

No-one wants to be raped by their own government. The turnout at the Afghan and Iraqi elections was high. No reason to think that Iranians are any different. No reason to believe the Iranians like being enslaved. Regardless, they don't speak with one voice. We should be supporting the ones who want to be free, regardless what percentage that is.

PE:"Bush has done everything perfectly correct"

"That opinion is in the minority, and shrinking."

It's correct regardless.

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 17, 2007 9:50 AM

Paul Edwards said

It's actually racist to think that they do.

Well, then I hope you agree that Nazi Germany was our ally in WWII, because otherwise you are a racist. There was at least one German who did not want the Nazis to win, therefore Germany was our ally.

It's not a fairy tale.

Glad to hear it. What are your sources?

The turnout at the Afghan and Iraqi elections was high. No reason to think that Iranians are any different.

You might want to look at who (Islamic fundamentalists), and what (Sharia law), the Afghans and Iraqis voted for in the elections that we forced upon them. I agree with you, there is no reason to think the Iranians would be any different.

It's correct regardless.

You may need to convince the Administration, GWB himself has been giving interviews the past few days saying that "grave mistakes" were made.

Posted by: special_guest at January 17, 2007 11:38 AM

auntbea,
Thanks, I do what I can. Keep posting, I like your ideas. You are right, they hate being confronted…These infidels! Who are they to question us? They are not used to that and lose it quickly if things don’t go their islamist way.

Posted by: tgusa at January 17, 2007 1:50 PM

Ok Infidel Pride,
I will agree that it is not now the capital of murder in the USA. But it was then. As far as knowing they were different cities, no I didn’t know that. I happen to like the bay area in spite of all the problems. The area has changed since then, for instance, I hear that Fremont is an islamists enclave. I was surely not when I lived there. I don’t make things up and write them, there is no need to, it is all true, believe it or not.

Posted by: tgusa at January 17, 2007 2:40 PM

special_guest, "Well, then I hope you agree that Nazi Germany was our ally in WWII, because otherwise you are a racist. There was at least one German who did not want the Nazis to win, therefore Germany was our ally."

No, that just means that there were allies in Germany. Not that Germany was an ally.

"Glad to hear it. What are your sources?"

The fact that the Iranian dictatorship doesn't allow free and fair elections because they know they will lose.

"You might want to look at who (Islamic fundamentalists), and what (Sharia law), the Afghans and Iraqis voted for in the elections that we forced upon them."

Neither Karzai nor Maliki are Islamic fundamentalists. Sharia law certainly isn't in force in Iraq. I haven't heard of amputations in Afghanistan either.

"I agree with you, there is no reason to think the Iranians would be any different."

If the Iranians vote for someone like Maliki or Karzai, who are both allies rather than enemies of the US, then the mission is accomplished.

"You may need to convince the Administration, GWB himself has been giving interviews the past few days saying that "grave mistakes" were made."

He's wrong. Everything that went down needed to be done exactly as it was. GWB wasn't doing the same science was that I was doing. If he had changed anything, I wouldn't have got the data I needed.

Posted by: Paul Edwards at January 17, 2007 6:20 PM

Iraq is not an Islamic theocratic state. Iraq’s citizens risked their lives; they came out to vote for representatives. Elected politicians are expected to serve the interests of all Iraq’s citizens. Some representatives instead choose to serve the interests of Iran. Iraqis are not satisfied. Iraqis deserve better, and want things to get better. They need to see results and accountability. They also want an honest and transparent government. Iraqis can try to convince these representatives to serve Iraq, instead of Iran, but the corrupt politicians stand in the way of progress, and must get out of the way. Poor results are their fault; they created them. Iraqis need leaders interested in a unified Iraq, not a tribal supremacist Iraq. Iraqi politicians can also acknowledge their shortcomings, and let Iraqis know how they plan to fix things going forward. Representatives who shirk responsibility and lie do not represent progress. If these politicians are not comfortable with this, then they must step down.

The Iraqi people can also assist in the effort to stabilize Iraq. Iraqis see and hear the jihadists, insurgents, and militants, and know where they take shelter. They must inform the authorities.

Posted by: SFOD at January 18, 2007 8:57 AM