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This story, which insistently sounds upon the Tiny Minority of Extremists™ theme, seems to be designed to reverse some of the damage done by the Dispatches documentary. But the Vast Majority of Moderates™, alas, is still not much in evidence in Britain.
"Radicals vs. moderates: British Muslims at crossroads," from CNN, with thanks to all who sent this in:
DUBLIN, Ireland (CNN) -- At a recent debate over the battle for Islamic ideals in England, a British-born Muslim stood before the crowd and said Prophet Mohammed's message to nonbelievers is: "I come to slaughter all of you."
That's what Muhammad said to the pagan Quraysh: "I bring you slaughter." I recount the incident in my book The Truth About Muhammad.
"We are the Muslims," said Omar Brooks, an extremist also known as Abu Izzadeen. "We drink the blood of the enemy, and we can face them anywhere. That is Islam and that is jihad."Anjem Choudary, the public face of Islamist extremism in Britain, added that Muslims have no choice but to take the fight to the West.
"What are Muslims supposed to do when they are being killed in the streets in Afghanistan and Baghdad and Palestine? Do they not have the same rights to defend themselves? In war, people die. People don't make love; they kill each other," he said....
But in the same debate, held on the prestigious grounds of Dublin's Trinity College in October, many people in the crowd objected.
"These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.
"This is not ideology. It's a mental illness."...
'Foreign policy has a lot to do with it'
This war of words is part of a larger debate going on in Britain -- the war within the Muslim community for the hearts and minds of young people. The battle of ideas came to the fore again this week when the trial began for six men who are accused of an "extremist Muslim plot" to target London on July 21, 2005.
The Woolwich Crown Court was told the men plotted to carry out a series of "murderous suicide bombings" on London's public transport system, just 14 days after the carnage of the July 7 London bombings, which killed 52 commuters and four bombers.
While Islamic extremists are believed to be a tiny minority of Britain's 1.6 million Muslims, they have no problem having their criticism heard. They have disdain for democracy -- and, most of all, the Bush administration's war on terror policies.
A poll taken in June 2006 for the Times of London newspaper suggested that 13 percent of British Muslims believe the July 7 London bombers were martyrs.
"Foreign policy has a lot to do with it," said Hanif Qadir, a youth worker and a moderate voice for Islam in Walthamstow, one of London's biggest Muslim neighborhoods. "But it's the minority radical groups that use that to get to our young people."...
"Our scholars ... are not coming out of their holes -- their mosques and their holes -- to engage with these people. They're frightened of that," Qadir said....
Indeed.
Choudary, whose group Al-Mahajiroun disbanded before the British government could outlaw it under its anti-terror laws, spoke to CNN and made clear he wants to see Islamic law for Britain."All of the world belongs to Allah, and we will live according to the Sharia wherever we are," said Choudary, a lawyer. "This is a fundamental belief of the Muslims."...
Asked if he believes in democracy, he said, "No, I don't at all."
"One day, the Sharia will be implemented in Britain. It's a matter of time."
Choudary cited the videotaped "will" of one of the London subway bombers, Mohammed Sidique Khan, who said, "Until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people, we will not stop this fight."
Choudary said he sides strongly with that statement -- "we have everything we need in those wills" -- and he cited passages from the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that he says justify jihad.
"I happen to be in an ideological and political war," Choudary said. "My brothers in al Qaeda and other Mujahedeen are involved in a military campaign."
While Choudary and other radicals continue to try to spread their beliefs, others say there is no justification for jihad in England. Imam Usama Hasan memorized the Quran by the time he was 11 and at 19, he briefly fought in Afghanistan against the Soviets.
"If you have the wrong intention, you can justify your criminal actions from any text -- whether it's the Quran or Bible or Shakespeare," Hasan said.
Yes, watch out for those Shakespearean terror groups. They don't just sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the deaths of kings. And they work fast; after all, if it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly. These Shakespearean terrorists teach bloody instructions, which, being taught, return, to plague the inventor.
He said it makes him "furious" when radicals quote the Quran out of context to justify killing of innocents. It's a "very tiny" minority with such beliefs, he said, but "it only takes a handful, of course, to create devastation."
Can we please get the in-context refutation of the idea that a kafir harbi, an unbeliever considered to be at war with Islam, can lawfully be killed? This idea is deeply rooted in Islamic theology.
"Many people are terrified of Muslims. They are terrified of a brother walking down the road with his eastern dress and his hat and his beard, because they have seen these images associated with suicide bombers," he said."It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people to tell them that ... the message of Islam is not about bits of cloth. It is not about the beard or head scarf or the face veil or violence. It is about peace."
In addition to smiling at non-Muslims, Hasan might consider actively working against the spread of the jihad ideology among Muslims in Britain.
Posted by Robert at January 18, 2007 7:48 PM
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The Babylonians worhiped Marduk, the Mesopotamian moon-god, on their ziggurats and performed human sacrifice ceremonies culminating in the slicing up of their human sacrifice and drinking the blood of the unfortunate person(s).
If there is any doubt that Islam is a human sacrifice cult which originated in Babylon, may the above article with its quotes as they are remove them for all time, for all the world to know and revile.
The statement of their determination to drink human blood can and SHOULD be taken literally.
Posted by: pythagoras![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 18, 2007 8:06 PM
In my humble opinion this is a very good development. These Jihadis came off looking like maniacs in the footage I saw. That the media is finally doing this, giving these maniacal windbags the rope to hang themselves with, is a good thing. I believe there are a lot of young Muslims, especially in the West, who are being turned off by this rhetoric who will eventually leave the religion entirely. There is nothing inevitable about Islam, and Muslims can clearly be made embarassed by it, or at least aspects of it. It is important that Jihadis continue to look stupid. This is actually as important, maybe eve moreso, than military victory.
Posted by: Quijybo at January 18, 2007 8:18 PM
The Shakespearean paragraph is the funniest thing I've read today. Be sure to watch out for those murderous cells of thespians, kids!
Posted by: scanderbeg at January 18, 2007 8:25 PM
What a sick and barbaric cult/religion. Notice that there was no mention of "moderate" or "radical" Muslim -- but that this IS Islam in it's rawest and truest form. Sick!
Posted by: champ at January 18, 2007 8:25 PM
Remember the Donner party? Human flesh can be lifesaving, so I don’t blame them. I hope, howeve,r I never have to eat an islamist. I hate chicken!
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 8:40 PM
There will be Sharia law in Britain, it's only a matter of time, said Chaudary. Slaughter, says Brookes.
Hmm ... yeah, ok ... when they can stand in front of me when I've got one of these liitle toys in my hands, and survive.
Then they can have their slaughter and Sharia law.
Click the video link on the first post.
http://www.comebackalive.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20740
Drool drool.
Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at January 18, 2007 8:41 PM
Brookes and Chaudary have long been in the little black book I keep inside my head.
Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at January 18, 2007 8:43 PM
pythagoras - you are perfectly correct and have obviously done your homework. Islam has direct ties from Babylon as do all of the false mystery religions.
Posted by: The Goobs at January 18, 2007 8:44 PM
I am with you Sir Henry! BTW, where do I go to get my title back…, Sir Willem De Berdwelle?
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 8:45 PM
but that this IS Islam in it's rawest and truest form. Sick!
Posted by: champ
So what must we conclude about those who live by it?
Posted by: The Goobs at January 18, 2007 8:46 PM
The Duplicity of the Radicals is fascinating. They speak of justice, peace ,tolerance, hypocricy , humanity , all to be followed by talk of murder, slaughter,beheading,bombing , genocide , followed by drinking the blood of the vanquished, all for the glory of GOD?
these people have a disease of the mind,i don't know what is inspiring them more, be it ISLAM's teachings , or our apathy and political correctness, and unwillingness to deal with them in ways that they understand.
Posted by: Concerned Canadian at January 18, 2007 8:49 PM
"We drink the blood of the enemy...
Whatever, Count.....
at January 18, 2007 8:59 PM
Goobs -- I conclude that a true Muslim is a "radical" Muslim. This new breed of Muslim, radical Muslim, has been hibernating beneath a facade of "peace", and that jihad is at the heart of Islam and every Muslim. Does that make sense?
Posted by: champ at January 18, 2007 9:04 PM
Tactically they made a mistake, they should have waited until they had the numbers. They have shown their hand and caused alarm due to a false sense of strength. They are as delusional as they are violent.
Posted by: Ronin at January 18, 2007 9:04 PM
We have one thing that keeps saving us....
Muslims are Muslims...
God they don't know when to shut up. Talk about giving up the plan. They must think we are really as dumb as our politicians are. Sorry the great thing about democracy with an intelligent people is that we learn.
Posted by: greatcometof1577 at January 18, 2007 9:11 PM
Can we now say without question that Islam is the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse? It's deadlier than the four traditional ones combined.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 18, 2007 9:14 PM
tgusa
Well, I don't know about in the USA, but here in the UK, under the Common Law, you are permitted to call yourself anything you like. You can take up your new name any time and just start using it. It can then become your legal name through 'custom and usage'. You can then go on to get all your official files etc, bank accounts, passport - the full works - amended to show your new name.
That can be a little complicated at times though. Easiest way is to go to a lawyer and have your name changed by Deed Poll. Costs about £100 (less than $200). Then just send the Poll around all the official agencies and get your name changed on all your files. This includes passport, drivers licence etc.
I've had several names over the years. I do it to irritate the bureaucracy, more than anything else.
The only condition is that you must not be doing it in order to aid in committing a crime, such as fraud. If you do that then the name change itself becomes an added offence.
I'm seriously thinking of changing my name to William the Conquerer sometime in the future. You can even call yourself a number if you wish, and THX1138 is on my list of potential future names. There is a man in London called Johnny 7. He was initially denied the right to call himself a number (would have been ok to call himself Seven, but not 7, they said), but he took it to the High Court, and the judge decided that under the Common Law the choice was his, not officialdoms.
First time I changed my name I went to the bank with my bank card and told the clerk that I wanted to change my account to the new name I'd decided to use. 'Can't do that', she said, 'you have to get a Deed Poll'. 'No I don't; can I see the manager please'. 'Hold on', she said, and took my card and SHE went to see the manager. Five minutes later she came back, pulled a form out from under the counter and said 'Right, what's your new name?'
Easy peasy. You just have to know the relevant law. I don't know it for the USA though - but I believe a version of the original English Common Law was retained after Independence, in the USA. Not certain, you'd have to check.
Beauty of it here is, all records of a name change by Deed Poll are kept locally in the Lawyers ofice where you did it. There are no central records. The lawyer has a copy, you have a copy, and that's it. So you can take your copy, and post it around to some gov. departments to get the name changed on your files, but not others. All good clean fun.
Of course, it probably helps if you're a little insane. :)dib dib
All good clean fun.
Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at January 18, 2007 9:17 PM
You are so right Ronin(glad to read you again missed your input, where ya been?)the fools, just like the Japanese, attacking w/o any plan. God watches over those whom are good, so we will always be in good shape.
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 9:18 PM
Drinking the blood of an enemy says more about the drinker than it does about the enemy.
Posted by: pismopal at January 18, 2007 9:21 PM
“The message of extremism can also thrive among youth who see no way out of ethnic ghettos.
"They're into all kinds of vices -- street crime, gun crime, drugs, car theft, credit card fraud. But then now you've got another threat," Qadir said.
"The new threat is radicalism. It's a cause. Every young man wants a cause."”
This is presumably the "moderate" and sensible Muslim voice in the article. A normal moderate Muslim who apparently sees something like desiring to slaughter the unbelievers and 'drink the blood of the enemy' as just one more of those sorts of naughty things that normal young men who are in search of a cause do, after being thoroughly bored with credit card fraud. And of course they are driven to this sort of naughty, typical young "rebel without a cause" behavior because they "see no way out of ethnic ghettos". No mention by this moderate Muslim of the fact that Muslims have worked very hard indeed to make sure that Muslims do not assimilate into their host cultures and that they remain separate and hostile towards their host cultures. And now, presumably, these young rebels without a cause have been unfortunately driven to the point where they might be forced to seek that rebellious cause in slaughtering their fellow citizens and drinking the blood of the "enemy". Well, boys will be boys after all.
Posted by: Caroline at January 18, 2007 9:22 PM
Ya know what is scary, Sir xxx? I find everything you wrote hilarious. How long has it been since my family resided in the UK? 300 years or more, yet I haven’t lost my British sense of humor!
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 9:26 PM
May the Blood of their enemies choke them!
Posted by: unicorns62000 at January 18, 2007 9:28 PM
Any bets on when some Muslim ghoul "misinterprets"
(as usual) this statement and literally drinks the blood of some poor infidel?
at January 18, 2007 9:30 PM
I dunno, they're sounding Anglican to me...
Posted by: J.S. at January 18, 2007 9:32 PM
"Yes, watch out for those Shakespearean terror groups. They don't just sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the deaths of kings. And they work fast; after all, if it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly. These Shakespearean terrorists teach bloody instructions, which, being taught, return, to plague the inventor."
"Off with his head!" From King Richard III
Ok I am convinced! Shakespeare (peace be upon him) said thus...
LO! Off with his head!
Hahahahaha! This is fun! To the Globe! Our symbol when all the world is converted to mindless shakespearian drama!!!!! That is why we call it the "Globe" infidel! Die infidel becuase 72 Juliets await me!!!
Not to worry before all is done the muslims will claim Islam influenced Shakespeare and he was really a muslim. The same stunt has been pulled on Newton already just becuase he rejected the Trinity. Like to reject the trinity makes you a muslim??
at January 18, 2007 9:35 PM
Look, we are killers of the first degree. Anyone doubt that? Check your history books. Yes we explored the world with the tip of the spear. But can you blame us, after all we try not to eat human meat and they seem to enjoy it.
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 9:38 PM
My comment to cnn:
The mainstream media is starting, finally, to look into Islam with the same high standards of objectivity that it applies to other, less sensitive, subjects. Thats a good start. Please continue your journalism wherever it leads you even, as many of us who have studied these issues carefully since 9/11/2001 have concluded, you find that traditional Islam does indeed sanction the murder and subjugation of the "infidel," and those who would like to practice a moderate Islam are going to find it hard to contradict their violent co-religionists using the Koran and the example of the Prophet Mohammud and his own behavior.
Posted by: tokyobk at January 18, 2007 9:46 PM
Silly Kuffr,
Shakespeare --was-- a Muslim.
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=5835
Posted by: tokyobk at January 18, 2007 9:49 PM
Just when you had me wondering….stupid you had to use your fingers again.
Silly Rat
at January 18, 2007 9:55 PM
tokyobk
"Silly Kuffr, Shakespeare --was-- a Muslim."
Dear lord....Is there anything that is safe...
Jesus, Moses, Jefferson, Newton...even Shakespeare....
Jihad to convert the dead.....
Posted by: greatcometof1577
at January 18, 2007 9:58 PM
"These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.
"This is not ideology. It's a mental illness."...
from the article
I'm definitely digging this guy. May his example resonate among truly moderate Muslims everywhere. All they need to do is stand up in mosques everywhere and shout this out and then walk out en masse. If enough of them do it, they will have safety in numbers (assuming that there are enough actual moderates out there). The same principle applies to infidels everywhere. Speak up. Say it. Call out this madness for what it is. The emperor has no clothes!! If millions of people say it, there's no way for any one individual to be a target.
Posted by: Caroline at January 18, 2007 10:01 PM
Revolting:
Dimwitted primitives like that get such attention.
What makes them believe they can change UK-policy anywhere?
why isn't there any British politician to tell them in no uncertain terms to shut up or be locked up?
Here's a typical example of what damage a bleeding heart Stockholm-syndrome-infected A-sole of a reporter can do:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21017850-601,00.html
at January 18, 2007 10:04 PM
Yes Caroline, it will take the equivalent of our founding fathers, Adams, Jefferson Washington, Jones and the rest. They were hunted men, they risked their lives and liveliehoods for us, only 10 percent of the citizens were for the revolution by the way. Look what they accomplished in 5 short years. Where is the muslim equivalent of these men?
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 10:16 PM
"It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people to tell them that ... the message of Islam is not about bits of cloth. It is not about the beard or head scarf or the face veil or violence. It is about peace."
He disputes the idea that Islam is actually about such superficial things as head scarfs or veils or beards. But his antidote to that sort of external superficiality is to put on a "smile" and to focus on the positive "message of Islam". He's still locked in the external and superficial, still hopelessly locked in how to better practice his da'wa. Since the radicals are apparently giving a poor "image" of Islam, he hopes to correct this by putting a "better face forward". A brighter and shinier Borg face, as it were.
Posted by: Caroline at January 18, 2007 10:23 PM
The website al-islam.org tells us this:
"108. The entire body of a Kafir, including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis."
Najis means impure. Not only will the blood choke them, Unicorns62000, it will make them unclean.
Posted by: freedomschool
at January 18, 2007 10:36 PM
Well, with Women such as yourself on our side, we surely cannot lose. That has throughout time been our greatest asset, our Women, superior to all others. hey, dont attack me for speaking the truth! I would not trade 1 American Woman for 1000 of any others.
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 10:45 PM
Actually the psychology jumps out in this article in "Omar Brooks, an extremist also known as Abu Izzadeen". Ever notice these Muslim radicals always go by other names. This is psychopathy exactly as in brain sickness. They hate themselves and have to switch to a Muslim identity to make themselves feel better as the French would say, "comfortable in one's own skin" then.
Maybe it is in the water in England as the Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde syndrome does grip Muslims.
at January 18, 2007 10:52 PM
""It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people "
Very important for a happy community. And absolutely impossible if you walk around with your face covered up!
The irony of his statement seems to elude him...
Posted by: Lili at January 18, 2007 11:19 PM
Kabuki dance for the tourists in a tacky Honolulu lounge. Except in this scene it's real maniacs with guns and a taste for murder. And it's nationwide and not just some beach bar. This is for life ordeath.
What an entertainment.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 18, 2007 11:21 PM
Sir Henry Morgan wrote:
"Hmm ... yeah, ok ... when they can stand in front of me when I've got one of these liitle toys in my hands, and survive.
Then they can have their slaughter and Sharia law."
I thought UK citizens were not allowed to own
firearms legally?
I'm willing to bet that the mohammadans in the UK
don't obey that law!
at January 18, 2007 11:22 PM
"They don't just sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the deaths of kings. And they work fast; after all, if it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly. These Shakespearean terrorists teach bloody instructions, which, being taught, return, to plague the inventor."
-- from Robert's comments
Someone knows, or has been brushing up, his Shakespeare.
Posted by: Hugh at January 18, 2007 11:28 PM
"It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people to tell them that ... the message of Islam is not about bits of cloth. It is not about the beard or head scarf or the face veil or violence. It is about peace."
Sure. The peace of the grave, Abu...
*
Unfortunately this whole undercover mosque- scandal is almost entirely covered up in the UK (and on CNN) by this idiotic 'big brother-racsim' nonsense, trivial as can be and dumber than a village idiots drivel, but it goes on 24/7 and diverts attention, which I fear is intended.
Here's a link:http://sheikyermami.com/2007/01/17/england-obsessed-with-bs/
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at January 18, 2007 11:29 PM
"'These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.'
'This is not ideology. It's a mental illness.'...
'Foreign policy has a lot to do with it.'"
-- from the article above
Should this nonsense uttered by a supposedly truth-telling "young Muslim" defying or challenging the radicals be cause for cheer, or suspicion?
Suspicion.
Because he is either ignorant of what the texts say beyond anything described as conceivable by Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and many others who grew up within Islam and know what Muslims are aware of and what they are not. The Muslim who claims that the ideology of Jihad, including the fast-track to Heaven through killing of Infidel s in Jihad (and Infidels may include women and children in some circumstances, and that too is not a state secret), is not to be seen as the source, and that those who do are simply exhibiting signs of "mental illness" and, furthermore, continues to peddle the line, that will not do any more, that "foreign policy has a lot to do with it," may not be as dangerous as those he is dismissing or denouncing.
But he is dangerous. For he deflects our attention from the texts, teachings, attitudes, atmospherics of Islam. He may really have grown up outside of a society suffused with Islam, and may be genuinely very ignorant, or a misunderstanding Muslim-for-identification-purposes-only Muslim, in the manner of that self-promoting Ms. Manji. But if he is that ignorant, of what worth are his assertions?
And if he does know the truth, and insists that the texts, the "ideology" of Islam, are not the essential sourde of Muslim terrorism, and of the application of the other instruments of Jihad, then he is simply promoting, in a much subtler way, the same goals, using different methods.
This is a situation in which one has to demand of Muslims what witnesses are asked to swear to in American courts: to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That is not what this "young Muslim" has done.
at January 18, 2007 11:39 PM
Every single one of them poses a grave threat to us all. It is madness what is being deliberately hidden from the masses. Why, why would some do this to the rest of us? Do they know not what they do….again? I feel like I am in the middle of a horror movie and no matter how hard I try I can’ get out!
Posted by: tgusa at January 18, 2007 11:50 PM
The Bard notes that some rise by sin and others fall by virtue.
I hope that is not a premonition for the West.
To the liberals who are so desparate to find the modeate and to enshrine him, please note other words from Shakespeare:
“He that is thy friend indeed,
He will help thee in thy need:
If thou sorrow, he will weep;
If thou wake, he cannot sleep:
Thus of every grief in heart
He with thee does bear a part.
These are certain signs to know
Faithful friend from flattering foe.”
How does CAIR really feel about the Cosntitution and the Bill of Rights? Is that what they are praying for at the Kabbah, land on which no Kuffir may stand?
Posted by: tokyobk at January 19, 2007 12:11 AM
Easy peasy. You just have to know the relevant law. I don't know it for the USA though - but I believe a version of the original English Common Law was retained after Independence, in the USA. Not certain, you'd have to check. Posted by Sir Henry Morgan
It's not that easy here, at least not in my state and I don't think anywhere else. You have to get a lawyer to draw up papers and the name change petition has to be approved by a judge.
I have often wondered why so many muslims have two entirely different names. Just about every radical imam named in a news story is referred to as "so and so" and also known as "so and so". One weird name is more than enough but I guess two keeps the infidels confused and is useful for slipping through the cracks of terror watch lists.
An interesting story about the progress muslims have already made in the Muslim Brotherhood's master plan to conquer the West:
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2671
As usual, the MSM completely ignores this breathtaking story.
at January 19, 2007 12:12 AM
Hugh - if you re-read the article you'll see that the man who yelled that this is mental illness is not the same person who stated that "foreign policy has a lot to do with it".
The latter supposed "moderate" Muslim is, I agree, dangerous for the reasons you point out. But I applaud the bloke in the crowd for his spontaneous outburst of moral intuition, as there is no evidence that he was practicing taqiyyah or dissembling in any way. From the limited information provided in the article, his spontaneous outburst appears to have genuinely come from the heart. If he truly doesn't know that that this is what Islam actually teaches, it's entirely possible that he will find out in due time that it does indeed, and he might still be thoroughly appalled. There may be many more like him out there. Or we can hope at least.
Posted by: Caroline at January 19, 2007 12:15 AM
Caroline
I have to agree with you.
I felt like he applied basic decent human law to the situation. It was spontanious and correct.
That is the basis from which I critique Islam.
Hugh`s warnings well taken.
I also like how the students responded to that F`n welfare loser, "oooooooh," big bad scary musselman.
at January 19, 2007 12:29 AM
"Die Infidel, because 72 Juliets await me."
-greatcometof1577
Walid Shoebat,among others, claims it is 72 virgins, on 72 beds, in 72 palaces. How can unindoctrinated young ones know any better than to believe what they are taught?
This has all been foretold should one know where to look.
Posted by: kafir world at January 19, 2007 12:39 AM
"We drink the blood of the enemy, and we can face them anywhere. That is Islam and that is jihad."
Well-- we are the Christians and we drink the blood of the one true God --Jesus Christ-- to strengthen us against our enemies!
at January 19, 2007 12:41 AM
The CNN video clips are isolated soundbites designed to fit their story. Does anyone have a link to the whole debate? I think it would be more useful.
Posted by: Archimedes2 at January 19, 2007 12:52 AM
This is a situation in which one has to demand of Muslims what witnesses are asked to swear to in American courts: to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That is not what this "young Muslim" has done.
Posted by Hugh
Give the young guy some time and he just might discover what a pile of s*** the Qu'ran is and that the jihadists, the "mental cases", are just repeating verses from the Qu'ran and raving. He will most likely end up on our side.
Posted by: wrathofasma at January 19, 2007 1:11 AM
OT everyone:
This weekend on Foxnews (US time Saturday;Aussie time Sunday), they are doing a documentary on Hizbollah. Hope I remember to watch it myself!
at January 19, 2007 1:27 AM
Shakespeare, with his Merchant of Venice, was an anti-Semite. While Muslims were Judeophobic to begin with, they sure picked their stereotypes of Jews as 'Shylocks' from Shakespeare.
I haven't read Taming of the Shrew, so I don't know whether Shakespeare was as vicious towards women as he was towards Jews. But he sure would have done well to recite the Shehada, or translate it into Shakespearean English.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 19, 2007 1:36 AM
"Yes, watch out for those Shakespearean terror groups. They don't just sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the deaths of kings. And they work fast; after all, if it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly. These Shakespearean terrorists teach bloody instructions, which, being taught, return, to plague the inventor."
LOL. I missed that part when I first read this post. Shakesperean terror groups. LMAO.
Posted by: wrathofasma at January 19, 2007 1:50 AM
From my previous post:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244002,00.html
Here is the link and quick outline.
"Does any terrorist organization pose a greater threat to Americans than Al Qaeda?
The shocking answer to that question unfolds this Saturday, January 20th, at 8 p.m. EST, as FOX News Channel presents a breakthrough documentary, “Smokescreen: Hezbollah Inside America.”
While Americans are still largely focused on Al Qaeda and Usama bin Laden — who’s presumably rotting away in some cave — the terrorist group Hezbollah has been setting up shop right here in America’s heartland. And most Americans don’t know a thing about it. But we should know more about Hezbollah — a lot more.
As tensions with Iran are increasing, it’s important to keep in mind that Hezbollah is largely funded by Iran and has operated as its tool in terror operations around the world. As former Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte recently reminded us: “Hezbollah’s self-confidence and hostility toward the U.S. as a supporter of Israel could cause the group to increase its contingency planning against U.S. interests.”
at January 19, 2007 2:19 AM
Islam is predicated on principles for a group in the stage of human development that has long since passed (like a cave man using a bone to pick his teeth). Our world will no longer stand for any religion that will kill non-believers.
They can preach peace and respect, but they cannot deny the fundemental truth of their religion, which is to murder the infidels.
Someone should tell them to re-write Sura 2:98.
Posted by: IpseDixit at January 19, 2007 3:12 AM
Yeah, we`re the Muslims, we`ll chop off your head! We`ll drink your blood..! we`ll... we`ll... uh, can I have a free house and money to support my family..?
Abu Hamza, whose wife and six children live on benefits in a council house, was jailed for seven years last February for soliciting murder and stirring race hate. He is seeking to appeal to the House of Lords, having lost at the Court of Appeal last month. Extradition proceedings are pending.
Same with Izadeen. Feh.
Posted by: tokyobk at January 19, 2007 3:35 AM
"These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.
"This is not ideology. It's a mental illness."...
Interesting how one can point to another, and can remove himself from the same faith, being a Muslim is finding fault with anothers jihad. He is better served in leaving Islam. It would take a illness to say what he said and still stay a muslim.
Shakespeare, and Star Treks VI "The Undiscovered Country", try watching that movie again with islam in mind, it could have been made to handle islam creep into the west. Watch it closly, it will raise your "wow" factor. It was out in 1991, could of been a script of todays events. Errie.
Posted by: Islofob IS-1
at January 19, 2007 4:04 AM
Caroline said: "No mention by this moderate Muslim of the fact that Muslims have worked very hard indeed to make sure that Muslims do not assimilate into their host cultures and that they remain separate and hostile towards their host cultures."
Absolutely spot on. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. They have cultivated this problem themselves. Having resisted integration by not speaking the host language, importing spouses from the country of origin, avoiding contact with the host culture, constantly braying about their own superiority, trying to force our adaptation to them instead of the other way around, ramming their pernicious religion down the throats of their children etc. Now the next generation is poorly educated, speaks the host language poorly, doesn't understand the host culture, doesn't respect the host culture, feels 'alienated'. So, they do low skilled jobs, welfare dependence, or crime (and very often a mixture of all three). And who gets the blame?
Yep, the rotten infidels.
Posted by: Malta_1565 at January 19, 2007 4:05 AM
To be a dhimmi or not to be dhimmi,--that is the question...
O Mohammed, Mohammed! wherefore art thou Mohammed?
Et tu, Achmed?
Out, damned spot!(Aisha, cleaning Mohammeds robe)...
All the world's dar al-Islam...
A camel! a camel!
What a piece of work is Islam!
Friends, Arabs, infidels...
The fault, dear Achmed, is not in our moon rocks
I go, and it is done; the hajj invites me
But, soft! What jihadist through yonder window breaks?
My words fly up, my thoughts remain below
There are more things in heaven and earth, Hosaam
The quality of mercy is strain'd
Beware the ides of Ramadan
Now is the sandstorm of our discontent
A plague o' both your tents!
Frailty, thy name is woman!
The ma malakat aymanukum doth protest too much, methinks
O infidel, infidel, smiling, damned infidel!
Yond Kasim has a lean and hungry look
Get thee to a madrassa
The jihad's the thing
This was the noblest Arab of them all
Though this be Mohammed's madness, yet there is method in 't
How now? A infidel? Dead, for a dirham, dead!
Was ever woman in this humour beaten?
By the amputation of my thumbs
I hold the world but as the world, Gulab
Alas, poor Yusuf! I knew him, Hosaam
O happy dagger!
Eye of newt, and toe of goat
Islam is rotten in the state of Denmark
This thing of darkness, Islam
Off with his head!
This was the unkindest cut of all the thousand
Some Achmed kills with arrows, some with traps
Is this a dagger which I see before me
He's mad that trusts in the tameness of a Muslim
Our remedies oft in ourselves do taqiyya
Lord, what fools these infidels be!
at January 19, 2007 4:08 AM
geneviene:
Um, no. Christians dont "drink blood". Christians drink wine which SYMBOLIZES the blood that Jesus' split in accordance with the Jewish Passover rites.
Exodus 12:21 “Go and select for yourselves a lamb or young goat for your families, and kill the Passover animals. Take a branch of hyssop, dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and apply to the top of the doorframe and the two side posts some of the blood that is in the basin. Not one of you is to go out the door of his house until morning. For the Lord will pass through to strike Egypt, and when he sees the blood on the top of the doorframe and the two side posts, then the Lord will pass over the door, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses to strike you.
Exodus 24:8 So Moses took the blood and splashed it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Posted by: Vince at January 19, 2007 4:58 AM
I second Scanderbeg. Robert's Shakespearean comeback was good stuff. How fortunate our fearless leader has a sense of humor.
Posted by: Cornelius at January 19, 2007 5:08 AM
Mike_W
Great stuff, top marks for creative writing.
Here's something from the bard which might be apt:
And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
at January 19, 2007 5:16 AM
Vince:
Um, no. Christians dont "drink symbolized Jesus' blood". Christians drink wine which has undergone transubsantiation to the blood that Jesus spilt for the sake of all mankind, at least in a spiritually sublime sense.
The Eucharist and Wine offered in sacrifice, undergo transubstantiation to the spiritual essence of Christ.
When we take the Holy Eucharist or Wine offering, we are taking into our unholy, imperfect bodies a spiritual medicine in the perfection of Christ.
http://www.catholicfaithandreason.org/Eucharist1.htm
Posted by: Mike_W at January 19, 2007 5:30 AM
Shakespeare on 'Undercover Mosques' documentary:
So may the outward shows be least themselves; The world is still deceived with ornament
at January 19, 2007 5:31 AM
Mike_W:
Transubstantiation is a Catholic thing, a subset of Christianity. Christians in general do not believe that.
Posted by: Vince at January 19, 2007 5:34 AM
And thus I clothe my naked villainy
With old odd ends, stol'n forth of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
Posted by: Elephant
Superb quote (better than all mine put together - must remember in future, *quality not quantity*) and totally apt.
Those Shakespearean terrorists will be our deaths.
at January 19, 2007 5:35 AM
Shakespearean Insulter
When you run out of good arguments in a debate, go here,
http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/
Nothing like some good old Shakespearean ad hominem to shut 'em up.
at January 19, 2007 5:55 AM
Vince,
What Mike was writing is done not only in the Catholic Church, but the Orthodox and Anglican Churches as well. In the non-Anglican churches Holy Communion is a symbol of the Body and Blood of Christ.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 19, 2007 6:18 AM
bigcatgirl13106:
Very true, I should have been more precise. I was referring to Post-Reformation "Scripture Only" Protestant Christianity.
It will be strange after the 2nd Coming to see how the Catholics claim to be eating Jesus when he's right there on Earth with them.
Posted by: Vince at January 19, 2007 6:27 AM
I found this paragraph in an article I was reading which was detailing problems some Lebanese villiagers were having now that Hizabollah has taken over..
"Oh Siniora, don't worry, you have the support of men who will drink blood," sang a group of boys as they played in the street next to an enormous poster of Saad's assassinated father, former Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri. Continued."
at January 19, 2007 7:07 AM
Vince, there's no more faith in thee than in a stewed prune.
Posted by: Mike_W at January 19, 2007 7:07 AM
Blood of the enemy is hallal. Alcohol is forbidden, except in heaven. Thank you Mohammed for bringing sharia to the "Arabs" (Arab actually is an early Semitic word meaning "bandit or thief"). I can't imagine the morals of these "Arabs" prior to Mohammed! Genesis was correct when it profiled the heirs of Ishmael as wild, crazy and making violence.
Posted by: David England at January 19, 2007 7:14 AM
Mr. Hasan, after having said that one can justify violence through Shakespeare, the next you will say is that violence can be justified even through the Buddha.
Enough of your support for the "out-of-context" theory of Quran quotations, of which we are tired.
The extremists are following Islam in its truest form. The paradox of Islam is that by not following it in its truest form, you are a good human being. In other religions, by following your religion in its truest form, you are a very good human being.
By the way, the Quran says (3:7) "The interpretations of the Quran are left to Allah. Knowledgeable Muslims merely say 'This is the book our Lord has given us, and we follow it unquestioningly'". So much for your "correct - context interpretation" theory.
Posted by: proud-hindu at January 19, 2007 7:22 AM
Channel 4's documentary about terrorist preachings in british mosques is on again albeit in the early hours of Saturday 21st Jan 2007.
Not to be missed!!!!!
JVB
Posted by: Johnny Boy at January 19, 2007 7:28 AM
Passover was a prophecy for Jesus. Contrary to what most Christians presume, Jesus died on Thursday, Passover.
The Last Supper was the Passover sedar which God commanded to be celebrated annually for all time. It was in this tradition that Jesus instructed his followers to eat and drink for all time.
Per the Jewish calendar, nightfall begins the day, so the Last Supper was Wed night which is the same Jewish day as Thursday during the day.
There are two Sabbaths that week, one on Friday because of Passover and the usual Saturday one.
Thursday is known as Preparation Day. Jesus had to be buried before the Sabbath began Thursday night (which would be Friday)
Mark 15:42
It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body.
And thus being buried before sundown on Thursday is how Jesus fullfilled Passover and fullfilled the prophecy of Jonah.
“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”
Communion is the celebration of the Passover sacrifice that Gentiles make and that's why I don't agree with transubstantiation. There is no need to add onto what is already complete. Since it was the Catholics who forgot that Friday was a Sabbath too and erroniously decreed Friday as the day of the death of Jesus, I see no reason to believe in their other mistakes too.
at January 19, 2007 7:29 AM
ref above post for channel 4's documentary on preaching terrorists, should read sat 20th jan, don't miss it
JVB
Posted by: Johnny Boy at January 19, 2007 7:31 AM
Mike_W and Vince
Please, please, please don't argue about that here. There are bound to be lots of other forums on the net where you can do it.
Posted by: Elephant at January 19, 2007 7:35 AM
I'm just trying to refute the one person who equated the Muslim saying he's going to drink his enemy's blood with some Christian denominations belief that they drink Jesus' blood.
There is nothing comparable about the two.
One is barbaric and the other is just mistaken :)
at January 19, 2007 7:38 AM
So I guess, in addition to everything else, muslims are vampires too. Good. Maybe if sunlight hits them hard enough or if we show them the Cross, they'll burn up.
Posted by: A.I. Steamroller at January 19, 2007 8:21 AM
Vince, thou venomed rude-growing moldwarp!!
Posted by: Mike_W at January 19, 2007 8:24 AM
Mike: Silence Jezebel!
Posted by: Vince at January 19, 2007 8:49 AM
GOD IS LOVE = NO GOD > NO LOVE
P.S. Whose Jezebel ?
at January 19, 2007 8:59 AM
So I guess, in addition to everything else, muslims are vampires too. Good. Maybe if sunlight hits them hard enough or if we show them the Cross, they'll burn up.
Posted by: A.I. Steamroller
Why should they not be some form of demonic cross bread race? Is it racist to think so? Think about it all the fuss of taking crosses down in schools across Europe, at airlines and now even cemeteries. The killing of Jews God's promised people the sacrificing of people when extremists blow them and others up it's all demonically connected.
Either they are the new breeds of human demonic bloodlines maybe one that has always been around or they are just growing in number. If I am right that the Middle East is full of uncovered human cross breed demon angel man beings that look human but are not does not mean it's politically incorrect rather than should be looked into. Does not mean all these people are.
The Babylon region is very ancient even Eden is located there it's also a gate way for demons and fallen angels as stated in the Bible and once again Iraq has resurfaced in human history only to live up to it's name Babel land of confusion where all mystery religions originated.
Moses and King David fought the giants and the cross breeds in those days Genesis 6 accounts during Noah's flood and they appeared afterwards as stated and they could return during the end of age. The psycho characteristic of this behaviour is in line with all this and the behaviour of anti-saviour 'Mo' was no different. look at things spiritually too you can easily put this joke together and strug it off but you may not realise the joke may have a valid point.
Posted by: jesusisthelamb at January 19, 2007 9:09 AM
Don't we have any guts, at all, in the west to do something about this Islam crap?
Posted by: sounder at January 19, 2007 9:49 AM
I have news for this moron Chaudry. Islamic sharia law will never happen in this country. We wont allow it there WILL be civil war.
The outcome? If every good Englishman only manages to slaughter one of you before he succomed, the outcome is obvious. Do the maths you minority f*ckwits, England - 1 Scumbags - 0
The religion of the devil is amongst us, Islam. Wipe it out as we did Nazism, defeat it as we did Communism.
Posted by: bob_bournemouth at January 19, 2007 10:23 AM
"Don't we have any guts, at all, in the west to do something about this Islam crap?"
We have the guts. It's not a matter of an absence of guts. It's a matter of properly framing the context in which our already present guts can motivate rational action.
And it's not a matter of brains either. We have the brains.
I repeat: It's a matter of properly framing the context in which our already present guts and brains can motivate rational action.
Currently, the dominant and mainstream framework, as it applies to the Problem of Islam, separates two things:
1) Islam itself + the vast majority of Muslims, deemed to be harmless
from
2) Any and all bad things that come out of the Islamic milieu, deemed to be
i) represented by a "tiny minority of extremists" who have "hijacked a great and noble and wonderfully ethnic part of the world's cultural rainbow (Islam)"
and
ii) motivated not by Islam but by economic and political "grievances".
(I.e., for the dominant framework, there is no Problem of Islam, per se.)
However, as we Jihad Watchers know, a rational analysis of our predicament vis-à-vis the bad things that come out of the Islamic milieu tells us that we cannot really perform the simplistic separation of 1-2 above -- for at least the following two reasons:
a) sociologically, the dangerous Muslims are easily camouflaged among the supposedly harmless Muslims,
and
b) ideologically, there seem to be broadly pervasive and unifying psycho-cultural factors throughout Islam whereby motivation for terrorism permeates globally
(not to mention that we don't buy the sub-points of (2) above) --
and we therefore find it necessary for the West to treat all Muslims en bloc as potential terrorists and/or terrorist enablers (at least until such time as we have rational cause to begin to be able to discriminate among them).
However, for the various societies of the West -- all deeply and broadly infected by PC Multiculturalism -- to get to the point where we realize the implications of (a) and (b) as expressed above and act upon them, we do not require guts or brains, which we already have plenty of. We have to deconstruct the sociopolitically powerful PC Multicultralist framework by which our guts and brains are being re-routed away from rational action. And that most exigent deconstruction, I am afraid, is a much more difficult and complex proposition than merely rousing ourselves to have "guts". This deconstruction may, unfortunately and tragically, be simplified and speeded up for us by a few and widely dispersed horrible attacks by Muslims in the future.
at January 19, 2007 11:18 AM
Remote_control... this last posting of yours is masterwork. I agree completely. However, you must realize that people will not respond to your arguments in the same way they would an appeal to 'lost guts'.
Most people, even in educated nations like the United States, will not follow your post-graduate-level discourse. While I do and agree wholemindedly, most people are creatures of rote and habit. Few people really 'think' much.
We need appeals to the mind but also to the heart, soul and body as well. Islam threatens all of these and each responds in a different way.
The PC map of the world is showing us the wrong 'lay of the land ', agreed. It needs to be attacked in all manner of appeals.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 19, 2007 1:13 PM
Vince and Mike_W
Yes, I can see know why both of you felt that your blood comments were relevant because of this Muslim going on about drinking blood.
Posted by: Elephant at January 19, 2007 3:24 PM
"We are the Muslims. We drink the blood of the enemy...That is Islam and that is jihad"
One of the most Satanic and demonic practices is the drinking of blood. The Word of God strongly condemns and warns against the drinking of blood.
Leviticus 17:11-14
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. . .
14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
The drinking of blood is part of the Satanic Black Mass. It is a very, very serious and demonic act. The drinking of blood is almost certainly an open invitation to Satanic and demonic possession.
at January 19, 2007 4:15 PM
A Muslim can become a good person when he/she leaves Islam.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at January 19, 2007 9:58 PM
There is no such thing as a good man.
All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
( I think that means_ALL)
God is HOLY
Sin will never enter heaven
= BIG PROBLEM
Posted by: holy warrior at January 20, 2007 12:53 AM
Blood Mo' blood
Mo' human sacrifice pagan death cult blood
Mo' Mo' Mo' Mo'
Moon god's thirst must be slaked
at January 20, 2007 9:04 AM
A_Plague,
Interesting response. I realize that the ordinary Western person may not be roused by argumentations like mine; however, simply appealing to their "guts" I don't think will work, because it could have the opposite effect: I believe there are millions of ordinary Westerners whose "guts" will be roused to protect Muslims from "prejudice" and vigilantism and official attempts at "Big Brother" surveillance or worse, attempts at internment or even "genocide".
Millions of ordinary Americans now (and Europeans when they contemplate with their anti-American animus) sincerely believe FDR's internment of Japanese was a "shameful" act, and only a small minority has come to the epiphany that it was in fact a rational and good act under the circumstances. Back in the 1940s, the majority of the American people in fact urged FDR to intern Japanese, and only a tiny minority of utopian Socialist-type dreamers were opposed. That demographic has in the past 60 years reversed, reflecting the dominance of PC Multiculturalism. So rousing of "guts" will likely motivate millions to oppose, rather than support, any aggressive collective initiatives to treat Muslims en bloc.
Your metaphor of a map is helpful: The ordinary people in the 1940s wanted to get home; the ordinary people in 2007 want to get home. In that basic sense, the two populations of ordinary people are the same. In the 1940s, however, we had a different map showing how to get home, and where home was. Now we have a different map that leads people elsewhere. But, of course, this map problem won't be solved by just restoring the old map, since this cartography in the metaphor reflects profound sociopolitical and psychological changes framed as progress -- not merely lines drawn on paper.
at January 20, 2007 6:08 PM
"In addition to smiling at non-Muslims, Hasan might consider actively working against the spread of the jihad ideology among Muslims in Britain."
As a British convert to Islam I can tell you that there is no "jihad ideology" in Britain. I live in a muslim community and I have never come across it or anyone who has.
There is no "jihad ideology" anywhere in Islam. Islam is unchanging. No new ideology can gain credibility with the muslims.
at January 21, 2007 12:35 PM
"We are the Muslims. We drink the blood of the enemy...That is Islam and that is jihad"
Well I don't know who wrote that line; perhaps the propaganda department, but it's definitely not Islamic. No blood-drinking of any description goes on in Islam. Surah 2 verse 173 states "truly I have forbidden you....blood".
But if you're only trying to shock, don't let fact get in the way of a sensational headline!
at January 21, 2007 12:57 PM
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