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This story explains in microcosm why, contrary to what Dinesh D'Souza assumes, even cleaning up American pop culture will not end the jihad, which proceeds for reasons that spring from within Islam, and not as a reaction to outside outrages -- although those outrages are used as a pretext for recruitment purposes. Mutatis mutandis, after we become a decent, upright, moral people, the "traditional Muslims" of which D'Souza speaks won't become our allies. Their jihadist brethren will kill -- or subjugate -- us anyway.
"'If they pay we kill them anyway' - the kidnapper's story," from The Guardian, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
Fadhel is a slim, well-muscled 26-year-old Mahdi Army commander with a thin goatee beard and smoothed down hair that looks like a flat cap. One day last month he described how he and his men seized a group of three Sunni men suspected of killing his fellow Shia. "I followed the group for weeks and then one of them crossed the bridge to Karrada [a Shia district]. We first informed a nearby Iraqi army checkpoint that we were arresting terrorists then we attacked them and put them in the boots of the cars. We only have six to seven minutes when we grab someone - we have to act quickly, if he resists we shoot him."In this case, he said, the men were taken to Sadr City, the Shia slum to the north-east of Baghdad, where they were interrogated by a "committee" which ordered their execution. "We ask the families of the terrorists for ransom money," said Fadhel. "And after they pay the ransom we kill them anyway."
Kidnapping in Baghdad these days is as much about economics as retribution or sectarian hatred. Another Shia man close to the Mahdi Army told me: "They kidnap 10 Sunnis, they get ransom on five, and kill them all, in each big kidnap operation they make at least $50 000, it's the best business in Baghdad."
[...]
Like many of their Sunni counterparts, the Mahdi commanders boast that they could wipe out the other sect and gain total control over Baghdad if the US left. "We control most of Baghdad, our main enemy is the Americans," said Fadhel. Then he paused for a second and continued: "Also we can't trust the other Shia factions. Imam Ali says 'God please protect me against my friends and I will take care of my enemies.'"
Posted by Robert at January 27, 2007 8:01 AM
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Does that need any further explaination?
I just can only marvel of the blindness in the free world and how it opposes the Jihad.
Posted by: Arnie![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 27, 2007 8:18 AM
Christians, Mandaeans, and other minorities are routinely captured by both Sunnis and Shiites for ransom throughout the country. It's the sort of Muslim answer to a second job at IHOP or Wendy's. Unfortunately, the frantic family members of the kidnapped victims are ignored by American military officers almost as much as they are ignored by Iraqi police and military.
Posted by: maryrose at January 27, 2007 8:39 AM
The morale of the story, do not pay the ransom, the captives are dead anyway...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 27, 2007 9:17 AM
When the golden goose that lays the golden egg leaves, then obviously, there will be no money for them to gain in killing innocent lives. It's all about money; money for Islamic terrorism. Take the money away, and the terrorism has to stop. I know George thinks that the end of a gun will force peace, but the end of the gun has a dollar on it; that's all Islam wants.
Now, if you really want to force peace, then take the soldiers out and drop the bomb; you're going to have too anyway ? The terrorist are not working for a better society, they're working for a fundamentalist: Islam. Iran is working for uranium, N.Korea is working for plutonium, anyone can see that non-proliferation is not working ! It's a matter of time, why do you think China is building an anti-satellite program ? They're not stupid, they see this esculation. True, it's at the first level stages (1950-ish), but what're we going to do, let it esculate to the top ?
Posted by: Jeff at January 27, 2007 9:28 AM
They just had this guy on Fox News a few minutes ago talking about this.
Posted by: DCWatson
at January 27, 2007 9:37 AM
Re:"If they pay we kill them anyway"
If I remember correctly, an Irish Christian lady (married to an Arab), who had worked with orphan children for over 20 years in Iraq and was executed by Muslims like a dog. A number of Christians have been executed there by Muslims (who it is asserted have superior moral and family values).
No person who is really concerned about morals is going to be pointing fingers at others for alleged temptations offered by others. Really moral types (Gandhi, Saint Francis, e.g.) are only concerned about their own moral behavior. It so happens that because of that they become "role models" for others. We ordinary types look up to them.
This reduction of morals to a question of tits and ass tells me that D'Souza has a narrow view of morals. People who condemn the alleged immorality (especially re tits and ass) of others are generally hypocrites that are hiding something and seeking to manipulate, they have an agenda. Something is not kosher with this guy D'Souza.
at January 27, 2007 9:48 AM
I can just imagine Gandhi or Saint Francis saying that they can only be moral if girls don't wear bikinis. It's absurd.
Posted by: Frank at January 27, 2007 9:52 AM
Mention of Dinesh D'Souza reminds me of his brief but self-assured appearance on NPR yesterday. He was discussing not his book, but why "Iraq is not Vietnam." And why is "Iraq not Vietnam"? Because in Iraq "our vital interests" are involved, and so "we have to win." He doesn't tell us how he defines "winning" apparently because he thinks that is obvious: "winning" is "winning" as the Administratio defines it. Some vague never-quite-defined outcome, but one where Iraq stays in one piece, Sunnis and Shi'a lie down together like lambs, and Kurds and Arabs ditto.
And why is this so important? Because if we don't "win" then the "terrorists" will take over in Iraq. You know, just like that. The "terrorists." No analaysis, no consideration of the relative power of Shi'a and Sunnis, or of their co-religiionists almost certaiin -- no, certain -- to send "volunteers" and money and war materiel from abroad; no conception that the Kurds might take that occasion to make a run for independence; no notion that the Iran-Iraq war was a very good thing from the viewpoint of Infidels and that, if the opportunity arose to see a repetition, it should be taken, but this would be more than a repetition because the Sunnis are now, in Saudi Arabia, in Egypt, even in Lebanon (and who knows what is happening between Sunnis and Shi'a in Pakistan, or Yemen, and how uneasy lies the head of Sunni "King" Hamid of Bahrain?) enraged about the loss of Baghdad and the Land of the Two Rivers, which plays such an important part in Sunni Arab mythology about past greatness, and must not be surrendered to those "Rafidite dogs," those "Persians."
Not a hint from Dinesh D'Souza of any calculation. He's without guile or cunning, is straightforward, "moral" or "moral-majority" or "family-values" Dinesh D'Souza. Not quite as narrow or as holier-than-thou as Jimmy Carter, but not someone you want in your policy-planning room, especially not in the Pentagon.
Posted by: Hugh at January 27, 2007 9:56 AM
Criminal Civilizations,
Take a good look, this is what all people have to look forward to if we don’t stop them in their tracks. Since I have seen the cruel killings of Pearle, Berg, Johnson and others I made a decision. Attack! I figure I am already dead or worse so I am going to make them have to shoot me right there. Who knows maybe I will get lucky and somehow get them or some of them in the process? In your first minute that is when you need to act, their plan has not yet gone into high gear. After that they have you and begin to fortify their hold on you. When dealing with the islamists, the attitude, you won’t take me alive, is the only attitude that gives you a chance of survival. So make sure you work out, take some hand to hand combat classes, real classes not the ones for show you see advertised in the paper. Know where you are and who and what is going on around you at all times. Oh, and it doesn’t hurt to have a sharp object with you where ever you go. If they are determined to take your blood you might as well not give them any money on top of it.
at January 27, 2007 10:57 AM
our main enemy is the AmericansAnd yet Moslems kill more Moslems than Americans. Not that they wouldn't like to change that, but our second best ally is their inablility to get along among factions. Posted by: Kash
at January 27, 2007 11:49 AM
Muslims even assassinate the garbage collectors...what is it about garbage collectors the Muslims hate????
Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 27, 2007 12:03 PM
I was going to pick one or two paragraphs highlighting the complicity of the Iraqi Army and police forces in these 'operations'.
I would have ended up highlighting the entire article.
Posted by: PRCS at January 27, 2007 12:07 PM
There's a word for animals like these, but I cannot think of what it is. Psychopath -- yes, but that's not all. Insane -- for sure! Murderers -- without a doubt. Full of evil -- oh yea!
This threat goes BEYOND criminal behavior. We have to come up with a new word for these animals posing as humans. A word that encompasses their insane/psychopathic/sociopathic/hellish/murdering-rampages.
Any ideas?
Muslim has been taken. I need a fresh idea.
Posted by: champ at January 27, 2007 2:18 PM
Look, these terrorists are not even animals, true animals would take care of their own species. Case in point, yesterday there was a horrible bomb attack over at a animal companion pets/fame livestock market in Baghadad in which not only people, which could mean there were inocent women and children there because many children love animals like children in USA do. No, these terrorists should be called by their true names, monsters and demons that do the killing for Satan.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 27, 2007 2:38 PM
PS : In that bombing, both people and animals were killed.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 27, 2007 2:39 PM
WHY can't we arm the Christians and kidnap some of these Mo-Foes in return? I don't understand why these Xians can't pick up arms.
If I knew people were coming to get me I'd rather take out as many of them as I possibly could before they do.
Forget about turning the other cheek. Unlike the MoFoes.. why do Xians need to read their Bibles so literally? Are they also stuck in the Middle Ages?
Posted by: MeanieMo at January 27, 2007 2:51 PM
Islam says from hours 6 to 10,
you must be killing people again.
Here's Omar, he came from afar!
just to kill some people again.
And uncle Ali, from bombing Bali!
loves to kill people again.
And Osama Bin Laden, scraggy and sodden!
fatwa'd to kill people again !
gotta kill,gotta kill,
gotta kill,gotta kill,
That's what Islam says,
from hours 6 to 10 !
at January 27, 2007 3:24 PM
Can you even begin to imagine the depth of depravity and absolute lack of morals, to become an Islamic jihadist, or a suicide bomber? In Iraq, you would/could kill anyone who doesn't think like you do, in 100% lockstep with your ideals.
In his comment above, Champ asks what word do you use to even begin to describe the abominations? Well, also, what kind of animal will hide behind their young, or their elderly, or their most innocent, to stave off attack? Or strap their young AND most innocent into bomb belts, telling them in the least-cowardly face they can put up, "Go and kill. Just push this button here when you are close to them.." Calling this God forsaken lot 'animals' is an insult to animals everywhere.
The most vile curse word imaginable is still too good for this kind of mindset. It DOES require the invention of some new, depth-defying description.
Mohammad must just be sooo proud right now.
Posted by: localmalcontent at January 27, 2007 4:28 PM
Better yet, these terrorists are simply doing what their father, Satan has been doing, killing, stealing, and lying.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 27, 2007 4:46 PM
Allah uh Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://shadowgov.com/Constitution/DeathPenaltyApologetic_files/beheading.jpg
Posted by: hierophant at January 27, 2007 4:59 PM
"He's without guile or cunning, is straightforward, "moral" or "moral-majority" or "family-values" Dinesh D'Souza".-Hugh
Then he's probably ok as a Real Estate-insurance guy or a pastor and a writer re moral issues since he is sincere. He may learn something from Robert on this issue. Frankly, I would not want to mess with Robert in this field. Robert (and Hugh) are true scholars.
Posted by: Frank at January 27, 2007 5:14 PM
I don't know how many dead soldiers it will take before they realize you do not surrender to this enemy, yes our troops need better body armor, and sidearms. And everytime some democrat who voted against miltary appropriations for better equipment chides the President for deploying the miltary poorly equipped, I'd like to see them hung from a pole by their silver tongues. But I'd settle for their voting record being displayed immediately after their remarks, yet I don't know where such a news channel would ever come from though.
Posted by: Catawhumpus at January 27, 2007 5:27 PM
Allah uh Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://shadowgov.com/Constitution/DeathPenaltyApologetic_files/beheading.jpg
Posted by: hierophant
These animals truly are beyond contempt. I guess the victim in this picture is a "decadent" Westerner who "enraged" the mullas whom DineshDhimmi thinks Western Conservatives should make common cause with?!
What a goof!
Posted by: MeanieMo at January 27, 2007 5:43 PM
localmalcontent --
Hi. I'm a she, not a he. My username is simply an abbreviation of my last name.
I'm an animal lover too, so I did not mean any disrespect to God's LITERAL animal kingdom; I was simply trying to convey how 'base' these so called human beings are, and animal seemed to fit.
Maybe Muslims are really aliens :)
Posted by: champ at January 27, 2007 5:46 PM
Totally criminal behaviour with a veneer of 'religion'. Why is this veneer so effective, totally blinding the MSM???
Posted by: Lili at January 27, 2007 5:53 PM
Wasn't it only a short while ago that the Shi'ite Maliki declared that Sadr's Shi'ite militia was going to b dealt with?
This guy Maliki can be trusted to be on our side as far as you could've thrown one of those toppled statues of Saddam.
If anything, US forces should protect Christians. As for the Shi'ite-Sunni factions, the more they kill each other, the better. But it is for stopping these Moslem-on-Moslem killings that G. W. Bush and his military brass want the troop surge.
US troops are the "super-cops" in Iraq, invested with keeping the "peace." They're "peace-officers."
The Iraqi police and military appears (from here in the US) to be not trustworthy. Why US forces alllow them to man checkpoints where the safety of American troops are concerned is incomprehensible.
Any Iraqi wearing American uniforms--for whatever reason, fashion statement etc.--should be summarily shot. No trial, etc.
Our (US) forces are Maliki's "national police." That is why he wants them to stay (as do so many Iraqis of whatever persuasion.
The whole "democracy" sham is as transparent now as it was from the start. The stupid purple fingers, the constitution, which made Iraq an Islamic state, meant nothing--except what could have been expected: a Shia-controlled government.
The idea of using American troops as bait "to draw out the terrorists and kill them," the idea being that if we don't do that there, we'll have 'em over here, is as lame-brained as the entire post-war effort in Iraq.
If we don't want the "terrorists" (read Moslems on, or contemplating, jihad)coming over here to kill us, use the resources being spent to keep Iraqis from killing each other to keep Moslems out of the US.
The "student visas" so liberally extended by the Arab sympathizers (perhaps in pay of the Arabs) in our State Department and consular service must be stopped first.
No matter if our universities and colleges don't receive Saudi funding for various chairs of "Islamic studies, Middle East studies, etc.) If many of these riddled-with-Islamic-sympathizers and Moslems faculties lose their jobs and the institutions go underr, it would be a small price to pay for keepin the "terrorists" over there.
Moslems over here on expired visas must be deported. Moslems with American citizenship, engaged in ant-American jihad-related activities must be stripped of citizenship and deported.
Borders sealed. There should be sufficient monies from the curtailed Iraqi operation to do this.
No pull-out of Iraq though. We must keep forces in Iraq as well as Afghanistan to be on either side of Iran. But withdraw to a fortified position in Iraq--in the Kurdish area, Anbar province, wherever feasible; let the military expert figure it out.
Policing Baghdad, looking out for the safety of the pilgrims streaming towards Karbala, is not the job of the US military. They are to protect us, Americans, from our enemies: the principal one at this time being the jihadists of Islam and their support system, financial, moral, whatever. That means every Moslem in the US must be suspect.
Right now, I am watching (out of the corner of my eye) another "anti-war rally." These people are playing into the hands of the Islamics. their raison-d'etre is the "War in Iraq." Were this no longer a "war," but troops in Iraq in a fortified position, patrolling to keep this position secure--not to keep Iraqis from killing each other--there cause would be non-existent.
These same "anti-war" people would be crying about the "poor Moslems" and the martial law inside the US to keep it an American instead of making it into an Islamic country. They could be ignored.
Posted by: unicorns62000 at January 27, 2007 6:39 PM
Yes Mr. Fitzgerald, you can see trough him, this Dinesh d'Souza. A mental lightweight and less than that.
"... Not a hint from Dinesh D'Souza of any calculation. He's without guile or cunning, is straightforward, "moral" or "moral-majority" or "family-values" Dinesh D'Souza..."
From the article:
".. even cleaning up American pop culture will not end the jihad.."
It was tried once once before, and it was (of course the dem's, especially) Tipper Gore, who qustioned Frank Zappa in congress. He said: "No one has forced Mrs. Baker or Mrs. Gore to bring Prince or Sheena Easton into their homes. Thanks to the Constitution, they are free to buy other forms of music for their children. "
Didn't he also say 'I wish your s*#t would come to life and bite you in the nose?'
Funny that people who call themselves 'democrates' always tend towards totalitarianism.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at January 27, 2007 9:05 PM
Champ:
The German philosopher Hegel called them "antihumans."
Posted by: Beauty is manifest at January 28, 2007 12:44 PM
Beauty is manifest -- that's perfect! A word that no 'animal lover' could protest against. Although the antihumans might post a complaint.
Posted by: champ at January 28, 2007 6:50 PM
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