Interesting...roughly the same % of young British muslims that believe in sharia law believe that those converting to another religion should be EXECUTED!! Very revealing!!

And 84% of that same 16-24 age group say they are treated WELL by British society...proving this is not based on how WE treat them, but on their own internal agenda!!

Posted by: verballistic at January 28, 2007 9:11 PM

Nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed

And the source of this belief is none other than the neighborhood mosques. The young minds are being infected and the epidemic is spreading. Britian needs to infiltrate every mosque and shut down any and all that promote this venom.

Posted by: Xero G at January 28, 2007 9:39 PM

HOw smart of the Poll COss. to take "polls" - intrepret numbers their way, and then separate the cats. in order to confuse everybody.

Can someone pls unravel/unriddle this one for me?

Does any one really believe polls?

Posted by: allat at January 28, 2007 9:43 PM

It is certainly possible that the pollsters worded the questions with the intent of overstating opinions that would anger and arouse the British public. Still, given the recent British news stories and pictures - along with the very real effort of mosques to radicalize Isamic youth, makes the results sound quite plausible.

If the results are even close to accurate, just look what we have to look forward to as the Muslim population grows here in the US. In fact, it's starting to happen with the relatively small numbers we already have.

Frankly, it scanres the hell out of me!

Posted by: Bob B at January 28, 2007 9:58 PM

Shawn Hannity just had a story and video clips from so called moderate mosques in UK.

Absolutely disgusting and scary, the hatred for infidels, the incitement to jihad, the highest honor, to be a state within a state until Islam can take over, all that vile being preached there.

Iucking Fncredible!

Posted by: sounder at January 28, 2007 9:58 PM

1. DEPORTATION.
2. DEPORTATION.
3. DEPORTATION OF ALL MUSLIMS NOW.

There is no other solution to the islimmmmme problem-curse on humanity.

They dont want to assimilate, respect other cultures, laws, religions, womens rights...nothing....deport them post-haste.

Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at January 28, 2007 10:05 PM

This completely contradicts all the naive fools who insist that the issues we're having with Muslim immigrants will all go away with subsequent generations. These fools bring up the past examples of other immigrant groups, how things were initially a bit tense with the ones just off the boat, but the 2nd and 3rd generations adapted and assimilated, & everyone got along fine.

With Muslims it's going the opposite way.

Posted by: feralee at January 28, 2007 10:21 PM

Hello everyone
Does anyone on this site listen to Talksport radio in the uk. i was just listening to mike mendoza and it was about this opinion poll on muslims. almost every phone call was muslins saying that this poll is a load of rubbish and that muslins don't want shariah law in the uk. I was dying to get on the phone and tell Mike Mendoza that if the don't want shariah law in the uk then why is it that when any of our laws conflict with Islam then all the muslins take to the streets in violent protests.
But i didn't have the confidence in case i got tripped up on something that im not sure about.
We really need to urge Robert to get on this radio station because its the best chance of his voice being heard in the uk.

Posted by: markuk at January 28, 2007 10:29 PM

Free one-way, no return visas and flights to Saudi Arabia or Iran - their choice. For anyone who wants to live under sharia.

Posted by: Lili at January 28, 2007 10:40 PM

At least in the USA the VERY BIG DIFFERECE is the the AMERICANS HAVE GUNS and the UK and the Europeans do not.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 28, 2007 10:42 PM

Without the mosques, without the religious-support, there is no Islam. They will not come here, or probably even want to stay here (even the British born ones) if the religion is banned and if there isn't anywhere to pray.

Extreme? ha!!
Posted by: Rougie

That is 100% right. It's not extreme at all. It's logical and common-sense.

don't let these pollsters take opinions from us native Europeans. They won't be able to explain the results away!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 28, 2007 11:12 PM

Rougie writes:
"Yeah but if you get mugged in America and make a run for it, there's a good chance you'll be shot. Plus there's the shooting sprees which insane Americans go on: Schools, malls, high streets, etc. Oh, and your cops carry guns and are really violent to ppl."

Well, this forum is probably not for talking about
guns, and politics aside from where it meets with
jihad and counterjihad, but I think your facts are
wrong (please prove if I get mugged and run I have a good chance of being shot) and if you just want
to make up stats like that, I bet that if we
adjust for population, more Brits are killed by
drinking related accidents than Americans by
insane gun owners. Traffic accidents aren't as
exciting as shootings though.

I actually agree with bigcatgirl13106's comment,
and enthusiastically support the 2nd amendment, but I think a discussion of this belongs
elsewhere. When you British finally get mad
enough to deal with the muslims, we'll get you the
guns if you need them!

Posted by: root_cause at January 28, 2007 11:16 PM

Yeah but if you get mugged in America and make a run for it, there's a good chance you'll be shot. Plus there's the shooting sprees which insane Americans go on: Schools, malls, high streets, etc. Oh, and your cops carry guns and are really violent to ppl.
Posted by: Rougie

And then you go and say something really STUPID like the above. You give very one-sided scenarios. It could be the revese.. the mugger gets shot by the intended victim. Like in Crocodile Dundee.. "That's not a knife. THIS is a knife" Ya dig? The circumstances we live in today DEMAND that the moslems be unsure whether the people the attack/insult/disrespect might possibly be armed.

If i were them I'd fear some "insane Americans" going postal inside a mosk someday soon if they keep it up for too much longer.

If ONLY our cops were really mean to moslems.. like their cops are.

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 28, 2007 11:18 PM

"Yeah but if you get mugged in America and make a run for it, there's a good chance you'll be shot."

No sweetie, that's why we take classes on how to use the guns so we can shoot real straight. But you keep believing that and keep making room for all those peaceful Muslims who want you in the UK to live under Sharia law.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 28, 2007 11:23 PM

Keep anyone of "British" origins OUT of western nations! They are nothing more than infiltrators and supporters of jihad.

Posted by: J.S. at January 28, 2007 11:40 PM

It makes sense that Muslim immigrants will fall back on Sharia Law, especially follow-on generations. Given their home countries’ poor performance in the world marketplace, and the organizational and information based Western economies, it is likely that they will under-perform their native-born peers in the free market.

Everybody enjoys the self-identification game. If young Muslims do not distinguish themselves in the marketplace, the ‘pure’ lifestyle of Sharia Law offers a comfortable fall-back position. Young minds will be able to view the ideology through rose-colored glasses because they have never lived under its consequences. And that four-wife idea could be a nice draw.

On guns: one nice thing about having guns is the associated presence of gun clubs. Gun clubs consist of a group of largely like-minded people in a community who are organized, heavily armed, and know how to shoot. Probably a healthy thing for society all-in-all.

Posted by: pez at January 28, 2007 11:41 PM

Mother Ecclesiastica,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and against whom will the weapons be aimed, eh?? against other Brits? Face up to the reality, for g-ds sake, Britain is gone.

Posted by: J.S. at January 28, 2007 11:54 PM

The British & French kings of a millenium ago must be rolling over in their graves.

Pez, you are right about the fallback position. Sharia doesn't require you to succeed or even to think, only to obey. And it's so viciously effective. If someone gets out of line, you can destroy any trace of them and make a deep impression on their neighbor, effectively killing two birds with one stone.

The rose-colored glasses idea is right on. Te idiots who demand Sharia are either a) the ones who will be applying it once it is instated and b) those who have only studied it theoretically and from afar, like university students who study and think communism is a great idea. No western women in her right mind, Muslim convert or no, would vote for Sharia if she'd ever had the chance to live under it.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 29, 2007 12:08 AM

And they will continue to do so until that day when the Western world no longer appeases or apologizes for being...the Western world. And then the rest of the Infidels must do the same. And then they must cease the Jizyah of foreign aid to all Muslims. They must exploit or at the very least do nothing to prevent, the natural fissures, ethnic (Arabs using Islam as a vehicle for linguistic, cultural, economic, and political imperialism, as with the Kurds, the Berbers, the black African Muslims in Darfur), sectarian (Sunni and Shi'a mutual resentments that pre-date the existence of the United States by about a thousand years), and economic (the rich Arab states that have somehow managed to hornswoggle the Europeans and Americans, despite the ten trillion dollars those rich Arab states have received from an accident of geology, into giving tens of billions to Iraq, to Egypt, to Jordan, to the so-called "Palestinians." Let them get it from their fabulously rich fellow members of the umma al-islamiyya, the only ones to whom they owe loyalty and the only ones to whom the rich Arab Muslims supposedly owe loyalty).

We must limit as much as possible the presence of Muslims in our societies, by halting all immigration and making no compromises with Islam so that those who wish to lead a perfectly Islamic life will not, in the Infidel world, have this made any easier by the Infidels agreeing to change their legal and political institutions, their social arrangements, their understanding of the universe, their anything at all.

And then we must help create the conditions that will force Muslims, in Muslim states and societies suffused with Islam, to be made aware of the link between their political, economic, social, moral, and intellectual failures, and the tenets, attitudes, and atmospherics of Islam itself, beginning with that "Allah knows best" habit of mental submission that has permanent effects on the brains of young people, and help to explain the absence of free and skeptical inquiry, and the resort to the most crazed of conspiracy theories and wild notions of every kind.

It is the only way: make Infidels understand what Islam is all about, and then they, in turn, will be better able to force Muslims to confront their own real problem, the one thing they cannot at this point conceivably blame for all their woes: Islam itself.

Posted by: Hugh at January 29, 2007 12:38 AM

The one thing that one should know and understand about polls such as this is that the numbers are normalised. That is to say that it doesn't matter what the actual response to any particular question is because the numbers for, or against or neutral, on any particular question are adjusted by the pollsters to reflect what they see as the norm.

The results which are published are, therefore, statistically suspect.

The fact that this poll seems to have found that "nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed, while less than a fifth of those over 55 believed the same, believed, that is to say, that those converting to another religion should be executed, is meaningless given that some normative adjustment, pre-determined by the polling company, will have been applied to the actual figures.

Anything up to 100% and as low as 0.01% of the 'nearly a third of 16 to 24 year olds' could have so responded. Equally, 'less than a fifth' could mean 0.01% or 100% 'of respondents over 55' believing the same as the 16 to 24 year olds.

Basically, the lack of any information on how the normative adjustments (always made in every poll) have been made renders this poll, as such a lack renders all others, meaningless.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at January 29, 2007 12:43 AM

J.S./

Sorry, you are so wrong and Mother Ecclesiastica is so right. I'm fed up with your anti-British diatribes.

Remind me, just which country elected a Dhimmicrat Congress quite recently? And just which country thinks it should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq because the body count is too high? (Cowardice? Fear? Stupidity? Or simply betraying the one staunch ally - Britain - who would suffer badly, very badly, if you lot pulled out and left us, as usual, to carry the can.) And just which country has airlines that pay compensation to islamic imams who don't turn up on time for the flight? (Just to name a few incidents, you understand.) Seems to me that you are a pot which insists on calling the kettle black.)

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at January 29, 2007 12:53 AM

Basically, it seems to me that Americans faced with the encroachments of the barbarian seek to blame anyone else other than themselves for this state of affairs. Certainly we are all guilty of pandering to the the barbarian islamic horde, but it is useless to project your anger onto we British simply because you are so weak and unable to resist - as we are.

Stop trying to castigate and blame us and start to try to work with us and resist not just the uncivilised moslem but also the weak-willed PC voter who is for you, as for us, the scourge and the potential ultimate downfall of our two countries. There is no difference between the American propensity for Dhimmicrat Congressmen and the British Propensity for blind PC Multiculturalism.

Either we stand together or we fall together because we could not resist political point scoring and historical revision.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at January 29, 2007 1:09 AM

sounder

I saw the Hannity excerpt 2 hours ago.

Hannity is one who's bought into the 'It isn't true Islam' argument, and seeing Melanie Phillips on this program, I was hoping that she would tackle that topic if it came to a head, and disabuse him of that misconception. However, when the question arose over the clash of civilizations, Melanie pointed out correctly that it was a clash between civilizations and barbarians, but qualified it with the claim that there are many Muslims completely horrified at these acts. While that may be factually true, it was misleading (particularly for that Great American Sean) in 2 respects:

• It left the impression that the reason Phillips wasn't calling it a clash of civilization was that there were Muslims horrified at these acts. But what if there weren't?
  
• More egregiously, it left the impression that since there were Muslims horrified at what's going on, Islam by itself is a civilization.
  

I recognize that it isn't Melanie Phillips' job to straighten out Hannity. However, I do chide her for not bringing up the fact that there are no such (or at least relatively less) frictions between Anglo-Saxon, and Norman Brits from Jews, Hindus, Black Christians, Sikhs or other communities in the UK. If it was a clash of civilizations - Rudyard Kipling's 'Never the twain shall meet - it would be an East vs. West, rather than Islam vs. the Rest, which has been the real (shabbily) hidden story of this movement.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 29, 2007 2:39 AM

Pez, you are right about the fallback position. Sharia doesn't require you to succeed or even to think, only to obey. And it's so viciously effective. If someone gets out of line, you can destroy any trace of them and make a deep impression on their neighbor, effectively killing two birds with one stone.

That's exactly how Nazism worked in Germany. They took your neighbors and if you made noise about it they took you right along with them.

We gotta make noise NOW - while we still CAN!
In fact I'd say we owe it to the German Jews.

They came for the Jews.

And now someone is coming for us...

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 29, 2007 2:44 AM

I recall back in 2001, having been resident in England at the time, how I worked with some young Muslims. Being very innocent and naive about Islam at the time (9-11 had only just happened), I was totally shocked and astounded at the virulent hatred these young 'lads' as the English like to call them had toward England and towards the West in general. Afterall, this was England - happy multi-culti England, where the politicians liked to portray just how tolerant, and full of brotherly love everyone in the country was - not like France of course, 'where intolerance and discrimination' were the order of the day.

One of these 'youngsters', obviously seeing my naivety at the time, tried to indoctrinate me into their cult, by giving me all these hate-filled anti-Christian leaflets to read. The more I read, the more suspicious I became of them. By the time I had worked with them for a month, I had learnt all I needed to know about the kind of dire threat our civilisation faces from these people. They hate us, our culture, our religion, our beliefs, our democracy, and everything that our societies stand for.

So all-in-all, I am not surprised by this poll. In fact, I think the figures supporting implementation of Sharia etc. amongst the young Muslims, is probably a lot higher. If you go around England, as elsewhere in Europe, there is very little integration between the 'natives' and the immigrant Muslims, as everyone is well aware. Europe has lived for too long in a bubble, and unfortunately this bubble is going to pop very soon with devastating consequences. And this is all because of idiotic policitians who have been too short-sighted to see and understand the dangers that have been imported in the name of the new religion of Europe, that is multi-culturalism.

And unfortunately, the demographics of Europe only leads to further despair. In France, policitians were recently celebrating their 'successful' policy of getting the birthrate up to replacement rate i.e 2.1 births per woman. However, nobody really wanted to mention the fact that 20% of those births were to 'Muslims'. If they form 10% of the population now, the next generation will be 20% of the population, continue with those demographics and the next generation will be 40%, and continue along the same lines and the next generation will be 80% of the population - that given the current trends continue. So in the next two to three generations, we should look forward to becoming the minority in our own countries.

Posted by: GreekFrenchInfidel at January 29, 2007 3:40 AM

necessitasnonhabetlegem wrote: J.S./Sorry, you are so wrong and Mother Ecclesiastica is so right. I'm fed up with your anti-British diatribes.

First, please ignore that person. He's a biggoted imbecile and proof that any idiot with a modem can post their drivel on the internet.

Second, speaking as someone who has lived both in the UK and the US, I would say BOTH countries share different problems with regard to the Mohammedan immigrants. Britain's colonialist past makes it very easy for immigrants to gravitate towards long-standing Islamic enclaves (i.e. in Birmingham). The current wave of PC apologists in the UK (remember, the ones who wanted to remove all crosses from hospitals?) is perfectly content to let such Muslim communities fester, as any sort of outreach or attempt at assimilation is seen as infringing on their rights to maintain their cultural identity.

In the US, there are large waves of Muslim immigrants as well. But the pressure to assmiliate and take advantage of the American dream is so great that those who do not make this attempt are seen as irrational and looked down upon. Unfortunately, this isolates them and even validates their feelings of otherness to the point that it makes them easy to spot and recruit by the Islamic terrorists and propagandists.

The UK (and Western Europe in general) need to find a middle ground between the BNP and AGS in ascerting their identity as a nation and dealing with the problem of Muslim immigration.

Posted by: Qualis Rex at January 29, 2007 3:45 AM

Sadly in every western country including my own we have never been weaker with all the left wing liberals the biggest defenders of Islam which is insane when muslims hate gays equal rights for woman and pretty much everything else in our societies.

The muslims won,t push too hard they will tell people what they want to hear until they are powerful enough to move and they will use our own democratic systems once they have the numbers to win an election and try to impose islam and when people don,t bow the war will start.

It may come in 50 years it may take 200yrs but the day will come with Europes negative birth rates the muslims will have the numbers but sadly people won,t wake up until the the Forth Reich AKA Islam is goose stepping down western streets.

Posted by: stevenz at January 29, 2007 3:48 AM

At least this "Story" got a mention on Sky News (MSM)this morning.
So some Brits might take notice at least those that don't watch BBC.
(British Broadcasting Caphilate)

THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL

Posted by: raz at January 29, 2007 3:51 AM

These young muslims who back the sharia want nothing else than to better their own miserable lifes and life lies by introducing the sharia wherever they are. It's the only chance for them to become somehow important and usefull. They see the west as an open area to become influential and nothing else, while they don't have this opportunity in the countries of their origin.
Kick them out now. They are dangerous.

Posted by: Arnie at January 29, 2007 3:55 AM

They won,t be kicked out because our leaders are the most cowardly scum that have ever run our countries.

Posted by: stevenz at January 29, 2007 3:56 AM

It may come in 50 years it may take 200yrs but the day will come with Europes negative birth rates the muslims will have the numbers but sadly people won,t wake up until the the Forth Reich AKA Islam is goose stepping down western streets.
Posted by: stevenz

Excuse me.. These moslems are not German. So no Fourth Reich OK?

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 29, 2007 4:03 AM

They won,t be kicked out because our leaders are the most cowardly scum that have ever run our countries.

Posted by: stevenz at January 29, 2007 03:56 AM

kick them out too

Posted by: Arnie at January 29, 2007 4:15 AM

deport those who want sharia law. if life is so terrible in the West why do they chose to immigrate here? send them packing, no welfare or other tax payers money to scumbags who profess islam!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at January 29, 2007 4:27 AM

Have you accepted the fact that Osama bin Laden is dead, yet?
Or: are you, too, in denial over that one?

Mother Ecclesiastica.
Posted by: Mother Ecclesiastica

Now THAT one I am in agreement with!! His inflated ego would NEVER allow him to stay on the sidelines for as long as he's been unherad from by now.

I think that funeral which we DIDN'T attack a few months ago was for the bastard!

if only we'd shot all the Taliban there were at this funeral!! We could've taken out about 140 of 'em in one go!

Posted by: MeanieMo at January 29, 2007 5:51 AM

Al Guardian:

Nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed

36% is nearly a third ?

Posted by: kasper1062 at January 29, 2007 6:13 AM

I suspect a large percentage of the "young Muslims" are unemployed by choice, violent by nature, and brainwashed by Islam...a potent martini....sure to kill ya....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 29, 2007 6:33 AM

Islam is institutionalised sexual depravity.

This is an important point. From the very outset, Mohammed and his Companions prized taking slave girls (both pre-pubescent and adolescent) and raping women every bit as highly as they treasured the money and goods stolen during the robberies they committed.

This is the Sunnah as worshipped five times a day, and all day Friday. This is the Sunnah revered by George and Tony and Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage and Jacques and so many more dangerous ignoramuses, Condi and Hillary included. Did I mention Karen Armstrong and John Esposito?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 29, 2007 6:52 AM

Rougie,

What I am posting about is of the LAW-ABIDING Americans who carry gun permits who have the guns. I have a friend/spiritual director who told me he has a gun permit. These are the folks that I am talking about, not the criminals and the crazies.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2007 7:03 AM

PS: This includes the police who are in majority responsible users as well.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2007 7:06 AM

Four years ago there was a huge debate in Minnesota over a conceal-and-carry bill up for passage.

The Marxists (they call themselves Democratic Farm Labor up here) filled the airwaves with predictions of doom and gloom replete with lurid images of guts in the streets, rivers of blood running down the gutters.

The bill passed and since then not one negative incident has happened involving a conceal-and-carry licensee, even though thousands have been issued.

As you might imagine, the Marxists have been mum on the subject since. Same for the local media. They're off doing their Chicken Little act on other issues now.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 29, 2007 7:18 AM

Mother Ecclesiastica you said that Muslim men want Sharia law so as they can live with 4 wives..

they do it now, but we call the other three - solo mums???? they are married legaly to one of them in our culture and all of them in their culture...
And as we live in a welfare country guess who pays for the other three families who will grow up hating us...

Guess why they went past other muslim countries, they were heading for the countries who had welfare who they knew were stupid enough to give them every thing...and the stupid infidel pays all so as they can have many, many children to each wife so as in 20 years they have bred their own armed forces...inside enemy lines...
four wives each with about - 9 children = 36 children from one man, hmmm...

Posted by: Gaye at January 29, 2007 7:19 AM

Xero G you say...
And the source of this belief is none other than the neighborhood mosques. The young minds are being infected and the epidemic is spreading. Britian needs to infiltrate every mosque and shut down any and all that promote this venom.

Xero G, it is what is in their holy books which is why they feel like this. You would have to shut down all mosques world wide,simply because they are preaching purely what the Quran and others of their religious books say... there is hardly any pages of good stuff to teach on, so if they stopped teaching all the bed stuff in their holy books their clerics would have nothing to teach...
Unfortunatly our fools of leaders get their advice from Muslims who are allowed to lie to the infidel for the cause of Allah. They should talk to people like Robert and others who know what the quran says, but oh no they get their advice from the people who count us as their enemy...

Posted by: Gaye at January 29, 2007 7:31 AM

The song remains the same...if you don`t like it here YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE , born here or not.

Yippee , the Mahdi is dead along with 350 insurgents killed in Najaf , Iraq.

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at January 29, 2007 7:37 AM

The problem with surveys is that usually only friendly and helpful people are prepared to take part, so they are a reflexion of the views and attitudes of friendly and co-operative people, which are, surprise, surprise, much more friendly and c-operative than those of their wider community.

Furthermore, people are much more likely to express their opinions when they can remain anonymous and when there is no recording equipment present. So people are much more likely to be hesistant in expressing what they really think if what they really think is deemed to be unpleasant, during a telephone survey because they know it might be being taped and also because people's name and address can be traced via their 'phone number.

If this is the reflexion of the attitudes of the most friendly and helpful Muslims often when they are being
more guarded about expressing anti-infidel sentiments, then it does not bode well.

Posted by: Elephant at January 29, 2007 7:45 AM

The handwriting is on the wall, "You must fight Islam."

If you do not see it, you are either blind or dead..

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 29, 2007 7:54 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

This is an interesting poll....there must be some truth in it as well as some lies.

One must however consider that democracy laws are MAN-made...as opposed to sharia which DIVINE-ordained.

For all you materialistic orientated kafur, know that you are not privvy to what happens in the hereafter...can you risk going against divine orientated laws?

You are only here a one lifetime...but your soul belongs to our lord and god Allah SWT...for all time.

Can you afford to muck about with materialistic junk and ruin your ETERNAL existence for one lifetime only...IT'S NOT WORTH IT!!!

Christianity does not even come close to set out the law like ISlam does...it has this HUGE piece missing...and although the founding fathers have tried to build in their own laws because of the omissions ....how can it be regarded as workable....where is the divinity here?

No I'm afraid for peace and for all our sakes AND SOULS we have to try and integrate at the very least ...the basic tenents of Sharia into the UK and the Amerike.

It's not so bad....you learn to love things that you get used to...so please peoples...get more learned moderate muslims into congress and Parliment and integrate in ASPECTS of sharia...we don't have to go all the way...just some tenets....just imagine the peace through (reverse) integration that this can bring. ...You know it makes sense.

Posted by: Naseem at January 29, 2007 7:57 AM

Hi Folks, First timeposter,just trying out

Posted by: rookie at January 29, 2007 8:01 AM

You know, we could put a stop to all this crap in five minutes if we nuked Mecca. The whole b------t Islamic religion is built around that black meteorite they all nauseatingly pray to. Without that, the whole muslim "religion" collapses like a house of cards. But, for now, our politicians of course don't have the guts. So (I will say it again), in the meantime, buy a gun and know how to defend yourself should you have to.

Posted by: A.I. Steamroller at January 29, 2007 8:15 AM

I have been reading this site for more than a year now and greatly appreciate the efforts of you good folks to combat this scourge that affects us all,but I could hardly believe the bitterness shown towards British posters (please forgive me if my terminology is not correct) that has been displayed by the poster J.S. Is he trying to deliberately create a division between British and American posters? We were allies the last time I looked. He is over on Dhimmi Watch spouting the same venom.Perhaps Sir/Madam if you concentrated on the real job at hand we may be able to actually get somewhere!

Posted by: rookie at January 29, 2007 8:16 AM

Naseem, sharia is not divinely inspired. Get off this site. No one wants to hear your insane rantings. Go away.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at January 29, 2007 8:18 AM

Naseem,

Please do everyone who writes for or posts here the kindness PLEASE of NOT PUSHING Islam unto us. Thank-You.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2007 8:34 AM

Also from the research that has been done, it has come down to the reality that the god worshiped in islam is just not the same as the Jewish/Christian God of the Holy Bible. The god of islam is simply a black meteorite. The true God of the Holy Bible works through the people He inspires as the pages of the Bible present. If both islam and sharia are so divine inspired, why is it that millions of Africans each year have been leaving islam and are becoming Christians so much so that it is hard to keep up with the building of new church worshiping communites? And NO, it is not the money but the reality that the good news of the Gopsel of Jesus that gives HOPE.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2007 8:48 AM

Well it's their lucky day! There are a number of countries already practicing sharia law, allow them to choose one and hand them a one-way ticket with instructions not to come back!

Posted by: Catawhumpus at January 29, 2007 9:37 AM

It's very simple. Moderate muslims are the seed from which jihadists grow. You cannot support one while opposing the other.

Posted by: Menetheos at January 29, 2007 9:38 AM

To get a tax exemption, and to avoid onerous restrictions, all religious organizations and members should have to agree that they oppose violence against those who wish to change religions, oppose establishing religious law to replace the US government, etc.

Posted by: Menetheos at January 29, 2007 9:42 AM

Answering Rougie's comment:

Yeah but if you get mugged in America and make a run for it, there's a good chance you'll be shot. Plus there's the shooting sprees which insane Americans go on: Schools, malls, high streets, etc. Oh, and your cops carry guns and are really violent to ppl.

You got it all wrong Buddy. I am a Brit in the USA....have grown up here and raised my own family. All I can say is God Bless the police here for without them and their guns criminals would run amok like they do in third world countries. This is a wonderful and safe country with opportunity for all. Most muslims coming here respect and appreciate American freedoms and are caring less for the fake allah and mohammed lies. However; yes I agree that here all mosques should be closed and any muslim that bitches about it should have their camels loaded and deported. When I came to the States years ago the older foreigners taught their children to be American first. But reality is that muslims honor a false god and are captivated by the doctrine of lies. I have been threatened by sisterinislam1982@yahoo.com for my views and her threats are that when the muslim mutants take over that I will be among the first stoned. Too bad for sister Heba, an Iranian muslima living in Washington DC. She hates non-muslim men (accuses us of being rapists - what a lark) and America so get her the hell out! It is not the Police we fear it is the primitive ideology that these jerks bring with them. If they awaken America more I pity them, we are alive, free, and well and will deal with muslim mutants when and if the time comes. So Rougie fear not for us we are aok!

Posted by: Truthseeker at January 29, 2007 9:50 AM

Assalamau laikum Catgirl,

Why is it OK for you peddle your christianity onto others like unthinking Africans ....but it is not OK for ME to peddle my Islam.

Can you see that you are trying to limit my freedom of speech here.

How do YOU know that Christianity isn't a sham? In it there are so many dispirate groups, it is so reformed as to almost irrelevent.

Add to that the virgin birth is virtually a myth...a fantastic leap of faith if you will...thus making the trinity a falsehood...attempting to hide Jesus's family....

I mean YOU are on really rocky ground here...the africans Maybe converting...but only because they don't know any better.

At least you know where you with Islam...a beautiful faith....what's your problem?

Try before you buy....

Posted by: Naseem at January 29, 2007 9:51 AM

I think the solution is to have a duo court system in Britain, British courts and Sharia courts: If British Muslims commit a crimes or seeks redress in a court of law, they can choose which court they want to handle their case.

In a Sharia court, they can lose a hand for stealing a pack of chewing gum, or probation in a British court.

In a Sharia court, a Muslim Woman can find herself destitute, out on the street, without any right to her children, after her husband pronounces " I divorce thee" three times. Whereas, in a British court, the bum would have to pay.

In a Sharia court, Muslim women will have to produce four witnesses if she's raped, and face execution for adultry if she can't produce them.

In a Sharia court, a Musim woman will only be allowed to inherit one haf as much as a Male relative.

In Sharia court, any Muslim expressing their opinion can be charged with insulting islam or the Prophet, and face execution.

The problem with those Muslims, especially the young ones, that want Sharia law instituted, is that "Sharia" is nothing but a word to them. They've never had to face the reality of an Islamic society.

Maybe a big dose of reality might snap them out of it.

Posted by: rational at January 29, 2007 9:56 AM

Naseem...........GO TO HELL!!!

Posted by: Truthseeker at January 29, 2007 9:58 AM

The actual report by UK group Policy Exchange is at:

"Living Apart Together: British Muslims
and the paradox of multiculturalism"

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/246.pdf

Posted by: jeffreyimm at January 29, 2007 10:04 AM

Assalamau Laikum Truthseeker,

If you really seek the truth...how are you going to achieve that by telling me to go to hell.

Who else is going to tell you the goodness of Dawa. Catgirl won't speak, she ignores reality and goes and strokes her cats.

Everyone here berates Islam....but it's not that bad...try before you buy!

Posted by: Naseem at January 29, 2007 10:04 AM

Naseem,

"Assalamau laikum Catgirl,

Why is it OK for you peddle your christianity onto others like unthinking Africans ....but it is not OK for ME to peddle my Islam.

Can you see that you are trying to limit my freedom of speech here.

How do YOU know that Christianity isn't a sham? In it there are so many dispirate groups, it is so reformed as to almost irrelevent.

Add to that the virgin birth is virtually a myth...a fantastic leap of faith if you will...thus making the trinity a falsehood...attempting to hide Jesus's family....

I mean YOU are on really rocky ground here...the africans Maybe converting...but only because they don't know any better.

At least you know where you with Islam...a beautiful faith....what's your problem?

Try before you buy...."

Naseem, what I post here is not to force anyone to accept Jesus and become Christians. All that is posted is information about the massive growth of the Christian faith in the global south and how it will shape Christianity in the 21st century. In other words, the global south which includes Asia, Latin America, and Africa is making the Christian faith community a truly global one. Even in mainland China, even with the attacks on the Christian communities, 3,000 Chinesse come to faith in Christ A DAY! Once again people want to have the HOPE that there is more to this life. Plus the Christian faith changes people for the better.

I will not respond to the attacks on the Christian docrines on the Virgin Birth of Jesus and the Trinity, what I hold very dear because both have helped me through the hard times of life as well as be with me in the more happier times. What you say is your opinion and yours alone. The rock I stand is the God of the Holy Bible.

Last the Christian faith has been, starting with Jesus and the love He has for His mother Mary and extends to the women he met in the Gospels, the letters of Paul and the women of the early Christian churches and the millions of Christian women down through the ages. Christian men are directive as husbands to love their wives. Women are held in high regards in the Christian faith. Never once Christian husbands are told to beat their wives.

Naseem, I have done enough research to learn that Islam is not the faith that that will give me peace, I am at peace as a Christian believer. I reject it and say NO THANKS.

Naseem, goodbye, this is the last post I will post in response. You are forever on my ignore list.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2007 10:39 AM

PS from Bigcatgirl to Naseem:

"Naseem, I have done enough research to learn that Islam is not the faith that that will give me peace, I am at peace as a Christian believer. I reject it ( Islam ) and say NO THANKS."

I have made an additional posting message to Naseem as well as do a needed writing correction.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2007 10:44 AM

Naseem,

Why do you still continue to deny the oceans of blood shed by islam for 14 centuries as your people burned, beheaded, tortured, raped, ransomed, their way from Persia west to Africa and into multiple sections of Europe.
We dont have to try before we buy as you suggest.
It is forced upon us everyday in the news as more reports of muslims killing muslims, muslims killing Africans, muslims killing Asians, muslims killing Israelis, and muslims killing Europeans shows us the reality of islams peaceful and tolerant nature.
You asked how do we know the proof of the Bible?
Let me see here......
How about the multiple predictions of Christ's birth in the Old Testament?
How about Christ predicting the destruction of Jerusalem?
How about Christ predicting His own death and resurrection?
Since the Bible is write on these things than MAYBE the Bible is correct on all passages and predictions which makes you on the losing side.
Tell me 1 thing the koran predicted....NOTHING!
It just rambles on and on about killing all non-infidels.
The koran reads on as jibberish and constantly contradicts itself so why dont you leave islam?
God does not want to kill anybody, but save.
He does not need the help of you muslims to kill people for Him if others do not believe your message. Believe me God is more than capable of killing bad people, sinners, and nations attacking his CHOSEN NATION OF ISRAEL.
Doesnt that make sense since 1.2 billion muslims CAN NOT DEFEAT ISRAEL MILITARILY which has 3 million in the nation.....pathetic.
God does not curse Jews as they are His people, but your leader commands death to Jews and all others. HOW CAN YOU WORSHIP A ENTITY WHO COMMANDS DEATH....THAT IS CALLED LUCIFER.
God loves and gives choice to do wrong or right.
Your people and beliefs commands to kill if people dont pick your side and THAT is the difference between Christianity and islime.

Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at January 29, 2007 11:05 AM

Naseem, Naseem, Naseem, what are we going to do with you, girlfriend?

Are ya' stupid or what? Have you ever looked at the name of the site you're posting on? It is Jihad Watch, and the sister site is Dhimmi Watch. We who enjoy freedom aren't ever going to take on the yoke of your demon god Satan, er, I mean Allah. The things that come out of your mouth are a warning to all here of just what a backward, illogical and mean spirited system you adhere to.

As for Christianity, you missed the memo, dear. Christ already blew Mohammad's teachings out of the water, first of all, when he taught the people to love their neighbor and even do good to their enemies. Your filthy little book exhorts Muslims to hate everyone who isn't a Muslim, and you treat your own people like garbage so, remind me, which part of Islam is beautiful? Secondly, Mohammad died and disintegrated. No mo' Moe! But Jesus foretold His death and resurrection and indeed rose from the dead three days after His death, just like He said He would. There were witnesses who saw Him after the resurrection. Pretty impressive, huh? As for the Virgin Birth, the Blessed Mother has appeared to many people throughout history, like Melanie Calvet at La Salette or Bernadette Soubirou at Lourdes, who, by the way, died in the middle of the 19th century but whose body lies incorruptible in Nevers, France. http://www.ichrusa.com/saintsalive/bernad.htm. She also appeared to the three children at Fatima in 1917, one of whom, Sr. Lucy, only died a couple of years ago. The Blessed Mother foretold the end of WWI and the coming of WWII. If God allows her to come and speak to the people on the earth, then He could have created a Virgin Birth, without even thinking twice.

The problem with you, Naseem, is that you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You think Allah is God (poor thing) and you believe he is all powerful. Yet you don't thing God is capable of doing miraculous things like the Virgin Birth. Perhaps you just need a little more information. Okay repeat after me:

Allah is the Satanic demon "god" who Mohammad sold his soul to in order to institute an ideology so he could get laid whenever he wanted.

Jesus Christ died for you so you could be freed from the tyranny of Satanic oppression (Islam) and live with Him in the next life in peace, with a joy that surpasses all understanding. (No getting laid in heaven, okay?)

Come on Naseem, you've never taken me up on my offer to go to the beach and see how the Christians relax and take it easy. I'll be going to the shore this summer, and if you want to come we can walk on the beach, get our toes done, go get coffee and danish in the morning and sit on the boardwalk and watch the dolphins swim by. I'll also introduce you to bacon wrapped scallops (yum!) and mojitos at dinner time and we can stay up all night long, watching old movies and talking about the neat things Jesus has planned for you when you accept Him as your Lord and Savior.

Come on, Naseem, you know that sounds a whole lot better than getting your head bashed in, or being accused of basphemy then losing your store, or having your young female relatives condemned to rape by an older male relative in the name of marriage. Live a little, girl. You owe it to yourself.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 29, 2007 11:16 AM

Naseem!

What about the goats?

Posted by: Fred at January 29, 2007 11:28 AM

Assalamau Laikum Fred,

You say "What about the goats"?

I say...keep them for your grandchildrens.

Posted by: Naseem at January 29, 2007 12:18 PM

Naseem wrote: Assalamau laikum Catgirl,
Why is it OK for you peddle your christianity onto others like unthinking Africans ....but it is not OK for ME to peddle my Islam.

Assalamu Alaikum (not "Assalamao laikum"). I agree with you that given the West's highly valued freedoms, you should always be allowed to speak here and "peddle your Islam" if you wish. And we in turn should always be free to listen to you or ignore you.

How do YOU know that Christianity isn't a sham? In it there are so many dispirate groups, it is so reformed as to almost irrelevent.

If Christianity is a "sham" because of disperate Christian sects, then the same can be said about Islam. Ahmadis are not even considered "real" Muslims to begin with. So, your logic fails here.

Add to that the virgin birth is virtually a myth...a fantastic leap of faith if you will...thus making the trinity a falsehood...attempting to hide Jesus's family....

That's very odd of you to say, since even Islam believes in the Virgin Birth. Very odd. Are you sure you are not really Jewish pretending to be Muslim?

I mean YOU are on really rocky ground here...the africans Maybe converting...but only because they don't know any better.

I find it funny that you, as an uneducated Paki, have the nerve to criticize Africans. You say they "don't know any better", but in reality it is you who do not. Unless you go to Africa and speak to Africans, you have no clue. You are simply a biggoted racist who, like the British before you, think Africans are inferior and incapable of understanding. And from your comments, it's obvious who is the one incapable of understanding on this board.

Salaam (you need it)

Posted by: Qualis Rex at January 29, 2007 12:54 PM

"At least in the USA the VERY BIG DIFFERECE is the the AMERICANS HAVE GUNS and the UK and the Europeans do not. "

One doesn't need a gun to protect oneself -
just imagination. (And it's amazing how criminals can get hold of sat nights and the islamis in those stolen countries where they rule - can get khalishnikovs.

-------------

"Yeah but if you get mugged in America and make a run for it, there's a good chance you'll be shot. Plus there's the shooting sprees which insane Americans go on: Schools, malls, high streets, etc. Oh, and your cops carry guns and are really violent to ppl."

Actually, it's the same in Eur. - AS WELL AS THE RAPES - crime has gone up - who the perps are is evident - only YOR POLICE AND AUTHORITIES KEEP IT QUIET!

TO keep you "natives" pacified!

Posted by: allat at January 29, 2007 1:06 PM

"One must however consider that democracy laws are MAN-made...as opposed to sharia which DIVINE-ordained."

naseem: BULLSHIT!

And all the rest that you say.

Posted by: allat at January 29, 2007 1:11 PM

Islamophobes, the lot of you! Racist scum! Yes, that's the sort of accusation you get in the UK (no doubt other places, too) if you so much as hint at a hint that Islam might be a soupcon of a tad intolerant. But I've come to the conclusion - and agree with many of the posters above - that it's about time they were shown the door. Integrate or piss off. The choice is yours. But no: Blair and his superstitious cronies continue to kowtow, to appease.

'Please, Mr Blair, can we have some more sectarian schools?'

'Yes, how many thousand would you like?'

Of course, the woolly PC brigade like to shout 'racist' at you when it suits them to conflate people's superstitions (which they can help) with their race (which they can't), and I for one - and I suspect most people - have no problem with the colour of a person's skin, but if their religion tells me I'm evil for being gay (which I happen to be) or can't draw a cartoon that depicts a medieval figure who claimed to be some sort of prophet, then I don't want to tolerate it. Mild C of E Christianity I can just about do with. Islam? Nope!

Posted by: AndyA at January 29, 2007 1:21 PM

Everyone here just NEEDS TO IGNORE NASSEM!!

aka mohammed.
aka salem.
aka akhmed.

Why?

She does not answer questions to any of our responses.

She only makes accusations of racism, hatred, and ignorance.

When her argument is smashed about religion, she claims she does not want to talk about religion when she is the one that started.

When her argument is destroyed about politics, she claims you dont understand the koran, islam, and says her voice is being restricted.

Enough of the back and forth. It doesnt go anywhere.

Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at January 29, 2007 4:59 PM

We must limit as much as possible the presence of Muslims in our societies, by halting all immigration

Halting Muslim immigration is just a start, for the Muslim population already resident in the West, has sufficient demographic momentum to carry on and subjugate the West.

Posted by: DP111 at January 29, 2007 5:27 PM

Add to that the virgin birth is virtually a myth...a fantastic leap of faith if you will...thus making the trinity a falsehood...attempting to hide Jesus's family....

003.047
YUSUFALI: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
PICKTHAL: She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
SHAKIR: She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.

Naseem - are you calling Allah a liar? Is he the father of Isa or is he the father of Lies?

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 29, 2007 6:13 PM

Naseem! Fount of all wisdom!

What makes you think my grandchildren would want to screw goats? You are a very strange (woman?)

Posted by: Fred at January 29, 2007 6:34 PM

Thanks to Robert for posting this and JefferyImm for the link to the original document.

From Table 1 on page 47.

“The following is a list of laws that are defined in most scholarly interpretations of sharia law. Please say if you personally agree or disagree with the law mentioned”

“That a Muslim woman may not marry a non-Muslim.” 51% Agree, 43% disagree, 5% don’t know/refused.

“That a Muslim woman may not marry without the consent of her guardian.” 43% Agree, 51% disagree, 5% don’t know/ refused.

“That a Muslim male may have up to 4 wives, and a Muslim female is allowed only one husband.” 46% Agree, 48% disagree, 6% don’t know/ refused.

“That Muslim conversion is forbidden and punishable by death.” Agree 31%, disagree 57%, don’t know/ refused 12%.
(Note. Agree 36-37% among 16-34 year-olds; Agree 19% for those aged 45+)

“That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal.” 61% agree, 30% disagree, 9% don’t know/ refused.

Posted by: Kab bin Ashraf at January 29, 2007 6:35 PM

Yeah...this is the internet. And there is no way to verify who Naseem is or isn't. After stating "the virgin birth is virtually a myth", which NO Muslim would say, since as "A plague on both houses" cited correctly from the Qur'an, I'm of the mindset that Naseem is neither a Muslims nor a woman. I think this poster maybe an Israeli.

Posted by: Qualis Rex at January 29, 2007 8:22 PM

Here’s a shocker. “Multiculturalism 'drives young Muslims to shun British values”
Ya hear that Mr. Blair? It seems ironic, MC seeks to bring everybody into one big tent but…they don’t want anything to do with it. All that work and they spit in your face, it must be disappointing/humiliating for him.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23383409-details/A+generation+of+outsiders/article.do

People, a muslima is not allowed to drive a car, go outside alone, work, or even show her face in public. Does anyone think that the islamists would permit a muslima to post here? Hiding behind her is one thing letting her state her opinions/preach islam is quite another.

Posted by: tgusa at January 29, 2007 8:30 PM

Our in flight movie will be: "Quo Vadis",The angus steak medium rare and the stewardess will be offering Johnny Walker Blue label after dinner.

As an additional request please do not feed the trolls, because it enables them to grow fat and partially (although temporarily) obscure the pathways for all. Your cooperation in this matter will be deeply appreciated. Have a nice flight!

Posted by: kafir world at January 29, 2007 10:07 PM

Yeah but if you get mugged in America and make a run for it, there's a good chance you'll be shot. Plus there's the shooting sprees which insane Americans go on: Schools, malls, high streets, etc. Oh, and your cops carry guns and are really violent to ppl.

Posted by: Rougie at January 28, 2007 10:56 PM

Sweetie pie, don't believe all the crap you hear on the BBC. I read the other day that the crime rate in London is higher than New York, imagine that! Wonder why? And to add insult to injury, many repeat offenders in the U.K. get a slap on the wrist or are completely ignored, while defenseless citizens are robbed, raped, assaulted, and murdered.

If I'm not mistaken, most cops in the U.K. are not armed and the old adage has been proven once again: "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

Until you have seen America for yourself, reserve your judgements. It's not even close to the hideous portrayal provided by your beloved BBC. Why they despise the USA so much beats the hell out of me but I can assure you, they are blatant liars and propagandists with an insidious agenda matched only by the muslims. Who knows, maybe they are in cahoots with each other; it sure looks that way.

Yes, there are gangs in our large cities that fight and shoot at each other. Yes, there are plenty of criminals but nobody can accuse mean, nasty America of not trying to get them off the streets to protect lawabiding citizens. We have the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world, but hey, we don't like thugs.

We try much harder to keep our streets free of criminals and murderers than Europe does, and we don't consider rape and murder misdemeanors, punishable by two or three years in jail. When there is no deterrent to crime, it tends to spiral out of control. Wouldn't you agree? As for school shootings, they recently had one in Germany; are they insane too? I don't recall any mall shootings; maybe the BBC knows something we didn't hear about. But America is a huge country and I could have somehow missed the mall shootings, despite tuning to the news almost all day, every day. Maybe you're referring to postal workers, who occasionally go berserk for undetermined reasons. Strange phenomenon indeed. Postal work must be very stressful.

As Catherine used to say, a gun in hand is worth five cops on the phone. I'm glad I own guns and know how to shoot them. It's like an extra layer of security. The cops can't be everywhere at once, now can they?

Posted by: Susanp at January 29, 2007 11:06 PM

Truthseeker, thanks for setting the record straight. I'm sure it means more to Brits coming from you than from those of us born here. Aren't the misconceptions about America unbelievable?!

Perhaps we take too seriously the articles we read about the muslim situation in the U.K.; maybe things aren't as bad as these articles would lead us to believe. Or maybe, just maybe, those living in the midst of it all cannot see it as well as an outsider looking in. I don't know. I certainly want the U.K. to remain the U.K. forever and I cringe at what appears to be happening right beneath the noses of the British people. I think they will eventually fight to save their country, but I fear that many are unaware of the threat, just like here.

I have always considered the U.K. to be America's closest ally and the British people our friends, but I don't think that sentiment is reciprocal any more. Commensurate with the overall population, there are more muslims in the U.K. than the U.S. and large numbers of muslims have been in the U.K. longer than in America. I truly do not believe that Americans will be as tolerant of militant muslims as the British have been. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens as our own muslim population grows (yuk!), not a pleasant thought.

I think America will be fine as long as our politicians don't do us in. We'll handle the muslims, no problem, regardless of what the PC multiculturalists preach on television and radio, in the schools and universities. Until the advent of Fox News, we were at the mercy of the liberal news media, yet I'm a lifelong Conservative. That's proof that all Americans are not easily brainwashed. We recognize a threat when we see one and we will address it accordingly. I worry about sleeper terror cells more than anything, and the horrible damage they might inflict on us. Time will tell what's in store for us but regardless, we will prevail.

Posted by: Susanp at January 30, 2007 12:08 AM

"I'm of the mindset that Naseem is neither a Muslims nor a woman."
-- from a posting above

Naseem is both a woman and a Muslim. There is no doubt about it. Her use of English, including certain mistakes, are consistent. Her gamut of of emotions, her now desperation, and now complacency, now a kind of sympathy for the Infidels and now a kind of wierd triumphalism based on her inculcated faith, all are consistent within her universe of posting.

And there is other information, available to me, that assures me of her Pakistani origin.

Posted by: Hugh at January 30, 2007 12:52 AM

Assalamau alaikum all,

1st of all I want to thank Hugh....who has once again come to show you peoples see sense on my identity...muslima + Ahmadi + Lahore = Naseem.

2nd, I do keep in touch with peoples in the UK, I read the mirror and the dailymail and telegraph online. I want to tell you ..that like the Kafur wild slutty womens in big brother Jade, Jo and Duni say they are not rascist biggots....in this same way....I don't have a rascist bone in my body...zilch...zero....Islam will not allow rascism...it only allows ...well...Islam.

3rd I have to laugh at peoples like Bigcat girl...who sees things so black and white, well dearie...it's a bit different out there...you have to talk to one and and all and deal with them too.....grow up and wise up.....your church doesn't have all the answers.

Posted by: Naseem at January 30, 2007 5:27 AM

The beauty of sites such as JW/DW is that the truth about islam is now coming out and it encourages the posters to do reasearch about islam and violent jihad online. Plus you learn more about the trolls that come here and post.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 30, 2007 5:56 AM

An additional note :

Also what is fun about posting here at JW/DW is being able to have a good learning experience reading the rants that the TROLLS post but also a good laugh at these same TROLLS.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 30, 2007 6:08 AM

"3rd I have to laugh at peoples like Bigcat girl...who sees things so black and white, well dearie...it's a bit different out there...you have to talk to one and and all and deal with them too.....grow up and wise up.....your church doesn't have all the answers."

I consider this a badge of honor, as I have the last laugh the above statement. lol

The statement reflects the one who posts it more then on the one it was directed to.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 30, 2007 6:48 AM

SusanP-

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

Only too true, Susan. Believe it or not, but that was exactly our protest slogan back when they announced the ban on handguns. Try as we did, it was nigh on impossible to explain to the authorities that imposing the ban on legitimate gun owners was a futile exercise in crime control.

As shooting enthusiasts, we were under the tightest controls and regulations and they were well adhered to. Yet our protests were simply dismissed as "Gun Nuts just want to keep their dangerous toys".

I remember my shooting days fondly. Many hours spent at the beginning just learning principles, procedures and maintenance before I first chambered a round. Also the many hours spent with the other lads, mostly ex-Military and disciplinarians of the highest order, swapping tales and practical advice are a pleasure to recall.

Our range marshals were bastards; I say this with fond pride. Never a ne'er do well passed our club door, gentleman members all. Yet it seemed that we were lumped together along with the criminals. The only difference being that the criminals still have their weapons.

-------------------------------------------------

"I have always considered the U.K. to be America's closest ally and the British people our friends, but I don't think that sentiment is reciprocal any more."

Not in all places, sadly this may be true, but there are still many Britons that do treasure the relationship that Americans have with our nation. In Liverpool, my home City, we have traded on our being the "Birthplace of the Beatles" for many a long year now. There are various festivals and attractions throughout the year commemorating this and American and Japanese tourists account for some 200 - 250 million pounds revenue for the region annually.

Aside from the old adage that you "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", the people of our City actually quite like Americans. I've said it before that, by and large, Americans, unlike most Brits, tend to wear their hearts on their sleeves. To we hard nosed, cynical denizens of this gritty old sea port, this is utterly disarming.

We're not the easiest people to get along with in Liverpool, but Americans seem, with a mix of friendliness, curiosity and, as often as not, an absolutely endearing naivete, to have gotten past our defenses time and time again.

It's hard to be cynical about someone when all they are is writ large upon their face and when they come across, above all, as "Genuine". Also, many Americans that have visited here have not only spoken highly of us and our City, but have also spoken 'for' us when our character has been called into question.

I could hardly do less and long may it be so.

Posted by: Wishbone at January 30, 2007 8:53 AM

Bigcat girlfriend,

You should be honored, because Naseem wouldn't go after you unless you were getting the point across. Way to go, girl!

As for not feeding the trolls, there is a reason Hugh and Robert don't ban Naseem from this site. She helps us to see in action, the peculiar workings of the Muslim mind. And it's just as important for us to practice our debating skills on this poor, misled woman. If you let what she says stand without refuting it, new people who come to the site might become confused and think that the patients are running the asylum. No, we have to argue with her, if for no other reason than to work through, with debate and logical deduction, our own demons in regard to dealing with Islam.

P.S. When I say I'd invite Naseem to go to the beach with me, I mean that from the heart. Like other friends who've come with me, (and we always have a blast,) I would like her to experience what it is like to spend time with a Christian friend, who doesn't hate her and has her best interest at heart. She could learn a lot about true peace and love and maybe even learn to trust enough to walk away from the satanic oppression that is Islam. Oh, and we could get our toes done. The most pious of women can't resist a good pedicure at the beach! ; )

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 30, 2007 9:08 AM

Isabellathecrusader,

Thank-you for making my day.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 30, 2007 10:03 AM

Isabellathecrusader,

The one thing I do give both Robert and Hugh a lot of credit, that which you more often then not elsewhere on the internet forums and blogs, to either gag for a short time, or do the more perminent banning, is to have even the trolls come here and debate the posters. This is good because it makes posters like me less afraid to take on the trolls, an internet issue I had at other websites. The debating makes me, one year coming up tommorrow, since I have become a member, more confident in debating trolls.

Also as far as Naseem goes, what I see is a woman who because see non-Muslim women, and in a special way, those who are Christian who are happy to be Christians, yet happy to be women also. Good for you for wanting to invite Naseem to the beach! Take care.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 30, 2007 10:17 AM

Isabellathecrusader,

My point about the responses to trolls was primarily in reference to the altering of topics which generally occurs, and consequently, the derailment of the thread. Yes, it's true debating is vital,but certain people use sites such as this as a reference and informational appartus and power center for future encounters or perhaps even policy making; but that's extremely difficult if every other thread is inundated with debates over mindless babble not even worthy of response. If one wants to test their command of knowledge and topics and simultaneously combat newspeak, the local bookstores, grocery stores,libraries,coffeeshops, etc are wonderful venues for real time debate and info gathering on attitudes regarding our mutural adversaries. They are still the front lines.

Posted by: kafir world at January 30, 2007 4:22 PM

"Isabellathecrusader you cannot take nasperm to the beach, most of beaches don't allow animals in it."

Sure I can. And you need to stop being so hateful and degrading because it is exactly that kind of treatment of women that is one of the reasons I oppose Islam. I don't hate Naseem. Sure, sometimes she ticks me off with her superiority complex with no substance to back it up, but she's not an animal. I think some time at the beach would do her good.

Kafir World,

I see what you are saying about messing up the thread. But as to debating Muslims in public, forget it. Why do you think Robert lives in secure undisclosed locationville? It shouldn't be a problem anyway because you can have several threads going on at each article and no one is obligated to comment on the Naseem thread. You can just keep discussing whatever topic you were commenting on. And she said something very interesting last week...that we had caused another Muslim to wobble in his faith and he no longer posts here, and that's the point. We learn from each other but we also teach. And if we can teach one Muslim to reject their lifestyle and leave Islam, then we have done a very good thing and we can continue to make a difference, even if it is one Muslim at a time.

Bigcat girlfriend,

Right back atcha! ; )

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 30, 2007 10:32 PM

Whoa, now, Isabellathecrusader,

If you fully read my post,you will note I never endorsed public debates with Muslims. It's the great unwashed masses who are in a fog regarding the history and modis operandi of this ideology.
Some of these people could very well be your friends and neighbors. Even a subtle hint or web link could get the boulder rolling.

Those who haven't sold out to Mid East oil interests should at least know what is truly in store for themselves once islam reaches critical mass.

Posted by: kafir world at January 31, 2007 2:38 PM

Kafir, sorry, your post was confusing but I better understand it now that I read your last post.

I had an encounter with Muslims last week at a conference where I hoped to learn a little more about the enemy. I recorded the incident at Dhimmi Watch. http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/015016.php#comments

I would not recommend open debate with Muslims because they have that nasty little, built-in revenge mechanism and with no moral barometer to temper it, one has to be very careful about what one says to them. I agree with you about letting the hometown folk know about what is going on, though. Some people don't want to deal with it. They'd rather live in that "ignorance is bliss" place until they are swept away. That happened during the two previous world wars so it shouldn't be a shock that it is happening now. But since I can see it, I get very frustrated when other people look right at it but don't see a thing. I have made headway with some people though. I have a few friends who I regularly send links to as they come up, here and at other links. And there are people I have been slowly wearing down. I guess I didn't understand the big picture when I first started reading about it so it will take a while for them to get it too. It does take time. But more often than not, I meet everyday Americans who are irritated by multi-cultural winter pageants in schools instead of Christmas Parties or preferantial treatment for whining Muslims, and that is where I start to plant the seeds.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 31, 2007 11:54 PM