| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Dhimmi Watch | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog | Raymond Ibrahim | Robert Spencer |  |
|
|
|||||||||||
|
|
Daveed Gartenstein-Ross explains in FrontPage, in the course of an interview about his new book My Year Inside Radical Islam, how he was convinced as a new convert to Islam that the jihadists were right -- by their theological arguments. He went to work at what turned out to be a terror-linked charity, and gradually they convinced him that their views were Qur'anically correct.
This is no surprise. The jihadist appeal within the larger Muslim community is theological, calling Muslims to the observance of what they characterize as "pure Islam." Moderate Muslims have never mounted any significant counter-movement to this, although virtually everyone takes for granted that they have a strong and traditional theological basis within Islam for their views. This is the great Emperor's New Clothes aspect of today's public debate.
FP: So what was the process of radicalization inside Al Haramain, the radical Islamic charity you worked for? And how did it happen that teachings that you once held as abhorrent eventually struck you as compelling?Gartenstein-Ross: When I took the job, I assumed that I wouldn't see eye-to-eye with my coworkers on some spiritual matters, but that we could simply agree to disagree. Little did I realize that my ideas would instead fall into line with theirs. There were a number of reasons for this. I felt a great deal of peer pressure to accept radical conclusions. I complied more and more with external manifestations of the faith (growing a beard, eating only with my right hand, rolling my pants legs up above my ankles, refusing to pet a dog or shake hands with women) that were themselves not radical, but coupled with the prevalent teachings inside Al Haramain pushed me in a radical direction. The biggest factor, however, was that over time I became persuaded intellectually by the theological case advanced by my coworkers and the visiting scholars who frequently joined us.
Posted by Robert at January 31, 2007 9:29 AM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
Peaceful muslims.......A TRUE OXYMORON!!!
I have a thought for the day for all the lying muslims and leftists of the free world.
If ALL muslims are not terrorists, than WHY are all captured and dead terrorists TURN OUT TO BE MUSLIMS!?!?!
Did anyone see on FOX News this morning about the collapsed plot of a kidnapping and beheading action in London?
Oh Naseem, I guess they are just more misunderstood muslims trying to murder their way to being understood by the world.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 31, 2007 10:01 AM
Yet more proof that Islam is the scourge of mankind. In fact, it's the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse rather than the religion of peace.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 31, 2007 10:03 AM
Remembering what Ricky Ricardo of the legendary "I Love Lucy" show" would say to Lucy, and in this posting to Naseem, " Lucy, ( Naseem ), you have some explaining to do! "
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 31, 2007 10:13 AM
" ...persuaded intellectually ..."
Thus demonstrating a total lack of intellect.
Moron.
Oxymoron.
Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan at January 31, 2007 10:14 AM
Asslamau Laikum Mr. Hungry Crusader,
Please understand....I am diametrically opposed to the violent aspirations of the sunni and shia...
When in the company of these extremists,it wouldn't be surprising that even extremist christians like "stillfedup" and "bigcatgirl" would start following their Islamic viewpoint.
I have been living amongst muslims as a minority.. I am Ahmadi...the one true moderate voice of much maligned and misunderstood Islam.
THE concept of democracy is not alien to (Ahmadi) Muslims. It is inextricably intertwined with Islam’s political system. Unfortunately, however, over a long period, of time, successive ruling elites in the Muslim world have systematically undermined it with a view to advancing their interests.
Regrettably, however, of the 57 Muslim countries, 38 are governed by dictators or traditional monarchs who have stifled the development of viable democratic institutions making it extremely difficult to create a culture of democracy in the countries ruled by them.
Dubiya Bush however is heartened to note that throughout the Muslim world the clamour for a genuine and undiluted democratic system is growing louder.
The people of many of these countries have suffered, for a long time, under colonial rule and want to have their inalienable rights which may be possible throught true sharia or alternatively through in a truly democratic society.
This would, necessitate the creation of conditions that are conducive to exercise these rights and elimination of obstacles that may prevent, hinder or inhibit this exercise....i.e. the Iraqi situation is a case in point.
Some people assume that democracy is a construct of the West. It may, however, be recalled that when Europe was being ruled by emperors, only to be succeeded by fascist dictators, the Muslim-majority countries were scrupulously adhering to the precepts of democracy as ordained by their religion. The principle of Shura, or consultative decision-making, is the source of democratic ethics of Islam.
For obvious reasons, they did not adopt the Westminster or American models of democracy but the political system they followed was rooted in democratic principles. This is akin to the mild sharia + democracy that I keep trying to push...it is Ahadism in it's purest form.
Thus, There should, be no objection if the Muslim countries adopt the ways of freedom and democracy based on their own centuries-old political, cultural and social traditions that might be different from the western style of democracy in appearance but not in substance.
These lunds are doing someone else's bidding...instead support me....support Ahmaddiya.
at January 31, 2007 10:25 AM
Naseem,
I am sorry, but in all seriousness I only trust myself and would never have faith in another muslim.
Remember, as your book dictates, I AM KAFIR!!
Kafir life is worthless correct?
Spelled right, correct me if I am wrong.
I am aware of plans for the great Ummah, sharia law, and the fate of all slaves and others in dhimmi status.
Muslims can kill kafirs, slaves, and any dhimmi at any time and I would have no protection and no legal recourse in an islamic nation.
I only trust my kind in the free, democratic world living in a government-Constitutional republic based on the Bible...whether certain rogues believe that fact or not.
I must and always support only a nation based on the Judeo-Christian ethic and history.
People as myself have no future in an islamic society...we would only exterminated at anytime and even if people as you would protest I would still be murdered under a hail of smiles and laughter.
I prefer to fight and be free rather than be living as a slave.
I know my history and I know the koran.
at January 31, 2007 10:41 AM
Naseem - read this:
Disparity in Results.
People in third world nations are poor, illiterate, diseased and hungry for this reason: their local government. It's time people accept the truth.
Case in Point: Haiti and the Dominican Republic occupy different sides of the same island. Haiti is a denuded garbage dump and is hell on earth to live in while the Dominican Republic has forest reserves and exports cigars and world-class baseball players. Another example: genetically, the people of India and Pakistan are very similar if not directly related. The reason for the growing success of India and the growing balkanization of Pakistan is the difference in belief systems. Islamic beliefs regress, bankrupt and fragment Pakistan while India grows stronger in trading and exchanging knowledge with the free world.
What causes huge disparity in results worldwide? Governance and belief systems. The world will continue to experience cholera, genocide, child starvation, oppression of women and minorities and the rest of the preventable tragedies associated with The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse until the world as a whole demands more from local governments. The scourge that comes out of places like Darfur, Sudan, Tehran, Iran and Pyongyong, North Korea will continue as it always has until leaders and belief systems used to control people are held accountable as the root cause of death and destruction.
If the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a founding document of the United Nations, were to be honored by every regime on Earth we'd have something to be proud of as members of the Human Race.
The UN needs to start enforcing its own standards
and removing members not meeting them. Having a seat at the UN should not be a 'right'. A seat and a voice need to be earned through measurable, objective results.
Naseem - your nation will never do better than it does at present because of the way it is governed and because most people believe the Qur'an is the path of life. Your nation is destined to fail because the government fails the people and because the people fail to see that Allah is a curse and an obstacle to a good life.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 31, 2007 10:44 AM
I can't understand how what appear to be normal folks fall under the spell of cults like Islam. Back in the early 70's there was a group out in Saugus, CA by the name of The Tony and Sue Alamo Christian Foundation. They had a couple hundred folks, mostly 18-30 age, I was there for a few months (age about 19). They of course had a lot of what seemed to me intelligent people who were mesmerized with the preaching and apocolyptic vision of the group leaders. I kept saying to myself "What the f___ am I doing here?". Anyway Sue Alamo (who talked with God each night in her dreams) eventually died of cancer, I believe, and Tony (the last I heard) was wanted on warrants for molestation.
Posted by: TheOmegaMan at January 31, 2007 10:48 AM
Naseem:
Is it true that the Pakistani Government does not recognize Ahmadis' as true Muslims?
Posted by: Mackie at January 31, 2007 10:50 AM
Naseem invokes Shura: "The principle of Shura, or consultative decision-making, is the source of democratic ethics of Islam."
As with all putatively beneficent and progressive things in Islam, Shura is merely a semantic tool to be used, with a ferociously cynical nihilism at the heart of their theology, for any manner of evil thing: After all, Saudi Arabia claims to integrate Shura too --
http://www.saudiembassy.net/Country/Government/law%20of%20governance%20King%20Fahd%20speech.asp
-- and we all know how "democratic" they are.
at January 31, 2007 11:00 AM
"Remembering what Ricky Ricardo of the legendary "I Love Lucy" show" would say to Lucy, and in this posting to Naseem," " Lucy, ( Naseem ), you have some explaining to do! "
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 31, 2007 10:13 AM
Actually, I believe Ricky said, " Lucy, you have some 'splaining to do!"
Naseem said: "The people of many of these countries have suffered, for a long time, under colonial rule and want to have their inalienable rights which may be possible throught true sharia or alternatively through in a truly democratic society."
Naseem. Colonialism is inaccurate in the description of the oppression in your referenced muslim countries. They are controlled from within, not without.
In addition, your statement above is nonsensical at its root. Sharia and Democracy are mutually exclusive. Democracy is a secular institution, where Sharia is theocratic in nature. It is either one or the other. They cannot be lumped together as an equivalent choice like fries or onion rings with your burger.
The rules under Sharia are well-defined and nearly immutable. Democratic laws can change based on the current whim of the masses as expressed through ther power of the vote. Can women in Islamic countries vote out portions of the Sharia that oppress them? If so, why has this not happened. Are women simply incapable of this cognitive action, directly supporting the ideology as is currently applied by the dominant male Islamists?
Naseem is ripe for Islam; the adulterated theocratic ideology, superseding any true freedom provided by a secular government. Those who support its doctrines and seek to expand its sphere of influence are weak-minded. There is the dominant ruling class of the adult male Islamist, with the rest being the proverbial lambs being led to or leading themselves to their own slaughter. Truly embarassing.
Posted by: awake at January 31, 2007 11:10 AM
TheOmegaMan,
Wolves in sheep's clothing. Money was the motivation I'm sure.
I think if you make up the stupidest idea ever, (maybe aliens in a volcano or aliens in a comet's tail) you will have at least some followers that will give you all their money. Like Jesus said, "you strain at the gnat and swallow the camel whole".
I would not like to stand before a just and Holy God at the judgment if I were one of these people.
at January 31, 2007 11:15 AM
DOCTORATE IN JIHAD!
I like how Jihadi boy cites "visiting scholars."
see here:
"The biggest factor, however, was that over time I became persuaded intellectually by the theological case advanced by my coworkers and the visiting scholars who frequently joined us."
==============
Evil is evil, but the theology of evil is Islam.
at January 31, 2007 11:49 AM
This is yet another story vindicating what Robert and Hugh have stated so often here, that the Jihadis are the ones correctly interpreting Islamic scriptures and that the so called "moderates" have no theologically based answers. I believe the main reason for this is that most so called "moderates" in Islam are really passive or secret supporters of Jihad so they won't bother to even try to come up with any, but the fact remains that an Islamically correct response to the Jihadis is impossible.
Sadly, the only good Muslim is an Ex-Muslim.
Posted by: Proud Infidel at January 31, 2007 12:26 PM
The Devil is very cunning......especially to those who are wishy washy to begin with.
Posted by: The Goobs at January 31, 2007 12:43 PM
This week's dream:
If I were a Muslim convert
And thank the Lord I'm not, sir;
I'd soon become a pervert
And kill off quite a lot, sir;
And when I got to Heaven
And my virgins lay around me,
I'd be too stupid to choose which one
'Cos the numbers would confound me;
And then I'd think, well I passed the test
And contributed to a slaughter-fest,
I blew my top, I did my best,
I'd been a cuckoo in the vipers' nest.
at February 1, 2007 10:27 AM
Comments are turned off and archived for this entry.
(Note: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.)