"Alexis Debat"

If Alexis Debat is married, the couple should be given their own nightly news-magazine: Le Journal des débats.

Posted by: Hugh at January 31, 2007 5:35 PM

Send them back where they originated from. the West should not waste time and resources on these fanatics. a fair trial and then an instant deportation sounds good. i think we are all getting sick of reading and hearing these savages talk and plot to destroy the only societies who actually Gave them something of value, like freedom and freedom of speech, but that ends when Treason is on their lips.

Posted by: Concerned Canadian at January 31, 2007 5:42 PM

"Most of the nine men are described as British citizens of Pakistani descent who are being held under Britain's new anti-terror laws."

The above doesn't really say if these men were born in the UK or Pakistan, only that they are of Pakistani descent.

If they were born in the UK, as were the London subway bombers, how much more evidence do Western governments need before they conclude that Muslims cannot function as loyal citizens of a Democratic society, that they abhor our values, detest gender and religious equality, and are God-driven to destroy all these things?

If ever the British people realize that Islam is nothing more than a reborn form of NAZISM, masguerading as a religion, maybe they'll fight as valiantly for their Island as they did in world war 11.

And that goes for us too.

Posted by: rational at January 31, 2007 6:12 PM

I could have bet my lifes savings that Pakistan will figure in the plot in some way or other.
And I would have won the jackpot.
Pakistani origin.
That just proves pakistan is involved in one way or other in every terrorist plot in the world.
Wheres Naseem now???
Whats he/she got to say.
I will tell you what Naseem will say as usual.

Like every other moderate muslim she /he will say
" Those people just represent a small minority of Islam and we are not aware of it".And then condemn it sounding as if they are doing us a favour by condemning it.

Posted by: Indiana_jones at January 31, 2007 6:13 PM

This is being taken out of context. In Arabic, which everyone knows is the only language that cannot be translated to any other language, "behead" means to "have a philosophical discussion". Muslims "behead" each other every day, in schools, in markets, in government buildings. What a bunch of racist Islamophobes for complaining about what is completely normal behaviour.

Posted by: special_guest at January 31, 2007 6:16 PM

Indiana_jones asked the question on everybody's mind:

Wheres Naseem now??? Whats he/she got to say.

If you're really interested, like any demon, they can be conjured up by saying their name thrice. Enjoy.

Posted by: special_guest at January 31, 2007 6:20 PM

rational

I don't think there is a problem. A cousin of one of the arrested men was interviewed on the 10.30pm News tonight and I think the following quotes are reasonably accurate,

“He is a very peaceful man who would not harm anybody”

“Ever since he came to this country he has never been in any trouble” - implication he was NOT born in the UK.

“When he is released I want you all to come back here (the media) and say you're sorry”

and I do think he also said “Islam is a religion of peace”

So you see there is absolutely nothing to worry about!

Rougie

I regret to say I think you are right the scientists who watch these things recently moved the nuclear doomsday clock 2 mins forward. We can only hope none of us or our relatives end up in the 8000 chemical and nuclear proof bodybags they have just ordered.

Posted by: Fred at January 31, 2007 6:31 PM

MeanieMo,

Why do you say Shmuckl is a troll? I think it may be BlowHammed instead.

Posted by: Apache at January 31, 2007 7:05 PM

Self defence requires two parts.
#1 Realizing that you are threatened.
#2 Ego based truth. Are you worth defending? How far would you go? What are you worth?

Extrapolate. Our society must by now realize it is threatened. The ego based truth unfolds. We do not as a society see ourselves as being wothy of defence. At what point will reality overtake the self denial and refusal to defend ourselves? Stay tuned I'm waiting with baited breath.

Posted by: ethoman at January 31, 2007 7:28 PM

Don't lose sight of the main thing, and keep that main thing under continuous observation: will Muslims in Great Britain express great relief that these "extremists" were apparently planning to kill a Muslim soldier serving in the British Army. And while Muslim organizations rally round and celebrate that soldier, make much of him, hold him up as a model of what Muslims in Great Britain should be doing, should be going out of their way to be doing -- signing up to fight the "war on terror" (for the nonce, let's accept that term), in Iraq, in Afghanistan, or anywhere else that the nation-state asks them to go.

They have something to prove, the way the Japanese-American war heroes of the 442nd had something to prove -- and proved it. Unlike those of the 442nd, however, nor all those Italo-Americans and German-Americans who joined up right away, and had their pictures in the windows and the walls of barbershops, little grocery stores, tiny restaurants in immigrant neighborhoods, there seems to be no celebration or pride taken at all, in the handful of Muslim soldiers who are in the British, or American armies. Only silence, only hostility. And the few who have served have openly mentioned that they, and their families, are subject to abuse, are afraid to publicize a Muslim soldier's military service, for fear of retribution.

Now why do you suppose that is?

Posted by: Hugh at January 31, 2007 7:29 PM

Assalamau Laikum Indinia,

Never say that Naseem was afraid to answer questions?

Of Pak descent ...well that is sad. I am Ahmadi not Shia or Sunni. At times I face the same sort of dangers as this soldier did.

I too do not have much idea as to how many peoples think like this...but I can tell you that members of the Ahmadi community are ...(like me) ...some of the gentlest peoples you can come across.

I can say they are misguided, I can say that Islam will rule...but not their way. They are too stupid to see that the easiest way for Islamic rule is to do nothing....stillness is a virtue.

Listening to the wrong imam is dangerous, this is a good moral victory for the British security services...good for them...and the soldier.

There is nothing to concentrate the mind like 4 walls of a prison...let them recite the koran from memory...they'll need to pass the time somehow.

Posted by: Naseem at January 31, 2007 7:42 PM

That some nutter in Lahore dreams of her comical religion one day ruling Britain, let alone the world, shows just what a disconnect with reality adherents to the megalomaniacal cult of Islam suffer from.
After the arrests, the British media have been full of interviews with the local Muslims. Expressions of shame, self-disgust and the sight of breast-beating by these people have been noticeable by their complete absence.

Posted by: wallyUK at January 31, 2007 8:01 PM

Naseem says "Of Pak descent ...well that is sad. I am Ahmadi not Shia or Sunni. At times I face the same sort of dangers as this soldier did."

Ok Naseem as you say you ahmadi ( i assume its some sect of islam like sunni/shia which has yet not joined jihad).
Anyway if you are different,what are you doing to tell your brethern that jihad is not the answer to their problem. The more jihad they do the more the world will hate them.

I for once never cared about a muslim or hindu in canada. To me if they had good life they were welcome.
As far those hindus go,I still havent seen any hindu preaching his religion or threatening war. The seem to assimilate well with the culture and laws here and contribute to the economy.

Why cant you muslims assimilate and always complain about everything and anything and spread the messge of violence in the mosques.

Why is it that the chinese, philiponos, indians who migrate adapt to the way of life and feel grateful for the better life they get here.
Never seen them trying to showcase their religion .They do practice their religion but keep it within themselves and dont seem to create trouble for themselves or anyone/.

Posted by: Indiana_jones at January 31, 2007 8:14 PM

Just a matter of time before the Islamists pull something big off. Then the mass expulsions can begin. Just a matter of how big, when, and where, because even Naseem can not tell a good one from a bad one. Personally looking forward to participating when it happens till then we wait.

Posted by: Ameriki at January 31, 2007 8:32 PM

They are at war with us.
When will our leaders relaise this.
will it take a nuke to wake them up
To them killing is a way of life.
Becos the koran justifies it.

I guess the koran must read somethiig like this
1) Kill jews
2) then christians
3) then kill hindus
4) when only islamic religion is left kill amongst ourselves i.e sunnis or shia
5)when one sect is killed off we will figure out whom to kill. Maybe when if we are the only religion-sect remaining, we will divide into teams just for sake of killing.
Or maybe we will just kill all the woman in our islam that time

No other religion seems to preach violence because no other religion dreams of world dominance.

Posted by: Indiana_jones at January 31, 2007 8:41 PM

I wouldn't deport them....no way ! I'd let-em rot in Jail with the toilets facing Mecca instead ! Their daily rations would certainly consist of pork; for breakfast, lunch and dinner too ! For desert; "it's pork pudding !"

Posted by: Jeff at January 31, 2007 8:58 PM

"I can say they are misguided, I can say that Islam will rule...but not their way. They are too stupid to see that the easiest way for Islamic rule is to do nothing....stillness is a virtue."
-- from a posting by Naseem, an Ahmadi living in Pakistan

A view into a mind, a mind that is convinced that Islam is the way. Despite herself being forced to declare, on official forms, her status as "non-Muslim," despite the celebrated comparative "mildness" of the Ahmadis (Qadianis) within the sects of Islam, Naseem's triumphalist insistence on Islam's rightness for the whole world, and everyone one in it (Muslims apparently do not share the expressed love of Western non-Muslims for a world full of "diversity" -- no, they want Islam, Islam, Islam), is telling, and terrifying.

And her prescription for the triumph of Islam -- no terrorism, merely a quiet slow conquest, through Da'wa and propaganda and demographic conquest -- is exactly what is happening, in Great Britain and France, in Germany and Belgium, in Spain and Norway and Russia and everywhere that large numbers of Muslims exist, or have been allowed to settle, deep within what they themselves are taught to regard as enemy lines.

Look at Naseem's words and her take on things, and remember that that is the very best one can expect, that is the most "moderate" of Muslims.

And worry. And work to prevent what she foresees, and crazily, self-destructively, would welcome.

Posted by: Hugh at January 31, 2007 8:59 PM

I just got more pcs of the puzzle.
It seems the Br. soldiers targeted are muslims themselves----- Pakistani?

Oh, God, poor men...after all they were doing their military duty for their country. True moderates.

I suppose they were going to be made an example of. There are sure to be others targeted.

Now none are going to want to serve in the Br. military

Posted by: allat at January 31, 2007 9:13 PM

I hope that it is not just wishful thinking on my part, but I do detect a change in the zeitgeist in Britain. The following article by Melanie Phillips is very revealing, particularly with regard to the growing evidence that even some leftists/liberals are starting to feel uncomfortable with regard to fanatical Islam (a.k.a. mainstream Islam):

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1438

(And apologies if this article has already been referenced here)

Posted by: The Northumbrian at January 31, 2007 9:14 PM

Earlier someone posted a comment asking NASEEM for it's "islamic"-"non islamic" point of view.

The part of the comment that struck me as ODD was i believe they asked for her "MODERATE" (LAUGHABLE) point of view.

So now let me get this straight.

1) If a muslim of any sect is against violence yet openly states the desire for an islamic world.

2)Points out (in earlier comments....way back)that the tactic is to breed till they are the majority (masters)

3) Points out that they (muslims of all sects) are paid by thier host gov. to stay home and excell at point 2 (in other words contribute nothing)

This is the idea of "MODERATE"?

I get the feeling Naseem is not what naseem says it is.

Really though i couldn't care less.It's opinion ,in my opinion, is moot and valueless.It just proves the islamic ideals are the same.Naseem is just another tactic on an old ideal.

If the west being so powerful wanted to enslave the world we could have bombed it into submission long ago.

The facts are the west is all about progress.The west is for better life.Yes politics and corruption dirty the waters.Islam is the same as any other political machine,like it or not islam is corruptable and is very corrupt,possibly to the core.

Islam at the helm of the world would be a world wide ethnic ,religious cleansing.

The rest of the world sits back complaining that we polute the air,we steal all the rescources,we oppress,we cause starvation and nakedness.They never look at thier contributions to the world society.The same old killings on a different day,thats third world.

Muslims sit around on thier holy high horses crying ,boo hoo,we have nothing,others have everything,oh by allah boo hoo.You yourselves,look within,use your jihad super powers to actually point the finger at your masters for the fault of your downtrodedness (if thats a word).

Oh the west is so evil,oh by allah boo hoo.Yea the muslims are so holy what crimes and sins are commited daily in the islamic dreamland?

Your tongues if not for being attached to your mouths would flap thier ways out over so much self pitying and crying.

Wake up to reality the world is not yours it will never be yours.The scenario is that the world (maybe sooner than we all think) will come to a screaching halt.Thats the good news for the muslims,the zombies caught up in thier groundhog life,thier lost centuries nowhere to be found.The sad news for the "enlightened ones"? Places like the U.S. will pick up the pieces and excell once again,lead out of the dark created by the loathsome lost children of the world of islam.

You can be "moderate" in any form you wish to call it but i still do not see a "moderate",i have seen hope for signs of "moderates" and i commend them for the price they probably will pay for speaking out.The ironic part of the "hopeful moderates" speaking out is that it will be,still and yet again the muslim,the peace lovers,the holiest of all religions that remove thier heads from thier necks.

Back to your castle in the sky and dream on and keep dreaming.

It's the first of the month all you dead beat bomb factories go get your money for soon the well runs dry.I couldn't care less for your litter of martyrs thats yours and your hierarchys problem.If you can't feed 'em don't breed 'em.

The day arrives soon.....TICK TOCK!!!!

Posted by: Dar al-harb at January 31, 2007 9:23 PM

To those who believe that ALL muslims are suspect for joining this jihad, what do you propose should be done with them? I'm curious to know.

Posted by: edward at January 31, 2007 9:34 PM

edward; Islam is Jihad by definition. Many Muslims are caught in a belief-system that they cannot leave out of fear. Western nations should give every Muslim a choice:

1. Either declare themselves an Apostate and remain as a citizen in good standing; or
2. Be humanly deported to a Muslim country of their choosing. The ‘last jizya’ should be one year of living expenses in their new home.

Simple, fair, and effective.

Posted by: pez at January 31, 2007 9:57 PM

Do believe we are already in WW111. Just like WW11 everyone is ducking reality as Britain did right up to Munich and infamous 'Peace in our Time' speech by dipstick Politician Neville Chamberlain When I say 'everyone' exclude most of our Jihad Watchers who know Islam's agenda.
It does seem a few of our loony lefties ARE getting the message-Nick Cohen formerly a slavish Dhimmi writing for Al Guardian recently wrote an article very critical of Islam & received all the ire from that barmy army of liberals who bother to read this rag.There will be more and soon : this will hardly help very grave situation which exists in Britain.Blair & his cronies have a lot to answer for but you may be sure they'll be living in luxurious comfort far away in some celebrity's mansion leaving ordinary citizens to fight and die on the streets. Cold comfort,eh.

Posted by: Morgane at January 31, 2007 10:07 PM

Nope not ww111, but the real ww1, which started in the 7th century when the Islamic cult was started. It will not rest untill either it is too weak or unble to attack or the rest of the world is serving under its rule.

Posted by: Ameriki at January 31, 2007 10:58 PM

pez, how is that fair to the muslim families that have lived peacefully for generations in western countries? to group them all into one huge army is just insane. and dangerous... don't you watch 24?? ;)

jokes aside, i am all for the immediate deportation of all illegal aliens, racial profiling, and even investigating our own citizens (and not just muslims) because we are at war... but if we make our enemy an entire religion, that is opening pandoras box. how can you war with 1.5 billion people? it would lead to the end of man.

i understand that extreme measures are sometimes appropriate for extreme times, but not this. to deport or force peaceful and productive muslim american citizens to declare that they are traitors just because of their religion? that's not the answer, and it's exactly what the true enemy wants you to think. i don't know what the answer is honestly, and i'm very happy that i or any of you are not making these decisions, but if this goes the way that you want, i would lay money on global chaos and anarchy to follow.

sorry to take this off topic, but it seems that most of you agree with pez, and that is pretty alarming to me.

Posted by: edward at January 31, 2007 11:24 PM

Edward thier religion should be declaired illegal as it was in Spain for hundreds of years. Those cought observing it should be deported to thier nation of orgin no matter how far removed. Every Mosque should be destroyed or converted into something else. Any native born Dhimmis that have chosen this path should be "black listed" since the religion is illegal it wouldn't be illegal for an employer to descriminate based on this criteria. These people would either leave for the Islamic world or change the cult they belong to.

Posted by: Ameriki at January 31, 2007 11:30 PM

Edward the war is upon us we have no choice whether or not we want to participate in it. The "global chaos" is inevitable only a matter of time. The only variable is how hard will it be on the west. This viariant is directly related to the percentage of the Muslim population in the west when it goes down. Islam is diameterically opposed to western democracy. These are not my words for Gods sake! It comes from within Islam iself! The religion has not been distorted or hijacked or whatever you want to believe. What you see here in this article is it ... the fabled real Islam. It is only a matter of time following well know European popoulation demographics that chaos will be here, and we only have insane imigration policies to blame. The defence of western civilization is nigh the longer we wait the more extreeme the measures will have to be. I may sound silly to you now, but just wait a few more decades when the Muslim populations of Europe get simple voter majorities, then Beruit will not be the Paris of the middle east .... it will be Paris, London capish?

Posted by: Ameriki at January 31, 2007 11:48 PM

Just like the many "Americans" and 'Canadians' who had to be bailed out of Lebanon during the Hezbolla-caused war with Israel AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE.
They are American British Canadian German French Dutch Danish Citizens only of CONVENIENCE.

Exactly.
They suck all benifits of the countries that help them.
Then as reward they declare jihad on those countries itself, because they dont give them more and more.

I hated it when Canada evacauted all 70000lebanese and those shameful bastards returend back as soon as the war over.
My tax money was used for them and I work my arse off and pay my . For what ??? For these people I guess. Most of the muslims are on one benifit or other and i work like idiot and pay taxes for them.

Citizenship for them should be conditional.
If they leave country for more than a month the citizenship should be revoked.
If unempployed for more than 30 days they should be asked to leave.
If they wann stay here they should contribute like other immigrants do to the economy rather than just live luxuriously of benifits which is from taxpayers money like me.

Wmat makes me mad is they reward us for all benifits with threats of jihad and Islamification.

Posted by: Indiana_jones at February 1, 2007 12:16 AM

Multiculturalism and political correctness has been perverted by the Jihadi enemy to open the doors to future and more horrific attacks. You can even see the weapon of political correctness being deployed here in some of these posts....it's not fair to "stereotype" all Muslims based on the actions of a few.....BAH!

Their are four classifications in this active and hot war:

1. Free thinking defenders of Democracy
2. Moderate muslims who believe in Democracy but do nothing to defend it
3. Muslims who believe in the actions of the jihadist
4. Jihadists

The most dangerous groups are 2 and 3, for group enables, funds and encourages while not taking direct actions, and group 2 creates the environment whereby more jihadists are allowed to be bred and fomented, hiding under the umbrella of silence.

Free thinking Muslims....speak now...shine the light in the dark corners, speak out and LOUD against the terrorist and their supporters. Defend your religion, the religion that you want it to be.

Posted by: JM at February 1, 2007 12:25 AM

edward; It is a difficult moral call, but in an era where individuals are enabled to do the damage that was once reserved for governments, the rules will eventually change. If these guys had had six ounces of Polonium-210, they would have pumped it into London’s drinking water system in a heartbeat.

The backlash will eventually happen. The best gift for both civilizations is distance from each other, the sooner the better.

Posted by: pez at February 1, 2007 12:29 AM

wallyUK:

"Expressions of shame, self-disgust and the sight of breast-beating by these people have been noticeable by their complete absence".

Even if they are forthcoming (say, in wearingly predictable thisisnotislam naseem style) know that it is all deception and disarming of our awareness.

Hindus have failed to play a proactive role in combating islamic terrorism. Last time it was Saudi Monarch that was the chief guest on 26th of Jan( Republic Day).This year it was Putin. Meanwhile the "meretricious"(thanks to Hugh)Musharraf has adequately impressed the now-hysterical-now-denying Hindutva brigade by promising to build a Hindu Temple in pukistan.

Would temple buliding, cricket matches and biryani devouring put an end to jihadism? How successful have Hindus circumambulating Temples within India been in knowing about death cult islam, leave alone trouncing it? Even Hindu-Chini baibai sounds more palatable than hindu-muslim baibai. The incorrigibly myopic Russia friendly India during its Indiracongress days wasted huge amounts in buying an ice berg removing contraption for use in tropical Tamil Nadu:)from Soviet Russia with no maxists agitating. Dithering India.

Posted by: Crows&Cows at February 1, 2007 12:48 AM

Hugh:

You said:

"And her prescription for the triumph of Islam -- no terrorism, merely a quiet slow conquest, through Da'wa and propaganda and demographic conquest -- is exactly what is happening, in Great Britain and France, in Germany and Belgium, in Spain and Norway and Russia and everywhere that large numbers of Muslims exist, or have been allowed to settle, deep within what they themselves are taught to regard as enemy lines."

The more I think about this the more it reflects the relative weakness of Western society rather than the strengths of Islam. Any idiot can have babies. Except western european women.

As far as Naseem goes, this is where cultural relativism maybe does come in handy. When Western influence over the world peaked between the 18th and mid 20th centuries, the views of most religious and political leader could be said to have resembled Naseem's supremacist and chauvinist view. BUT, unlike Naseem's anti-violence stance, many Western leaders took to violence to spread their populations, ideologies and religions.

To sum up - the worst of the west is no worse than mainstream Islam, but if Naseem is better than that, then I'll take it. Especially if the mode of conquest results from our unwillingness to bring life into the world.

Posted by: WingedHussar at February 1, 2007 12:48 AM

Hugh/

"Don't lose sight of the main thing..."

Oh no! You may rest assured that I, and others like me (a growing group, day-by-day) will never lose sight of the main thing.

But 'the main thing' is not what you think it is. You think that the moslems in the UK "have something to prove, the way the Japanese-American war heroes of the 442nd had something to prove..." and that the moslem organisations (those who practise taqiya and kitman against us will "rally round and celebrate that soldier, make much of him, hold him up as a model of what Muslims in Great Britain should be doing, should be going out of their way to be doing...".

And you miss the point. Totally. Absolutely. Utterly. You merely demonstrate that you are as infected by so-called 'modern' PC norms as everyone else is.

The horror of this plot against the life of a British serviceman is precisely that. That it was/is a plot against the life of a British serviceman - a serviceman! I don't give a monkey's curse about that serviceman's religion, about his personal ideological beliefs, about his religious or familial practices, for they are irrelevant in this situation.

This man, I presume, from the news reports so far that it is a male, took the Queen's shilling, professed (openly, and in front of his peers and fellow members of his regiment) his loyalty to Queen and country by so doing - joined a regiment and became part of the history and the traditions of free England, signified, by so doing that his belief in the very freedoms which, I hope, all of us who post here hold to be inalienable, were, for him part of his moslem and British heritage.

And then he, this loyal soldier (for we have no reason to assume otherwise) was faced by a plot against his life simply for being a loyal citizen and soldier - a moslem and a loyal citizen. A soldier for Queen and Country and a moslem who knows where his duty lies - to his country and to his faith I have no doubt (but, since he is still a soldier then, for me, that would seem to indicate that he has reconciled his country and his faith and, since he is still a soldier, chosen a path of rectitude and probity). Can anything be more disgusting than that small-minded islamic people - so-called radical moslems - should attack him for his personal morality. I can conceive of nothing more depraved than that.

Oh no, Hugh. The horror of this story is not a mohammedan horror - leastways, not in its entirety - but that anyone should question the motivation of a loyal British soldier, that anyone should seek to challenge the loyalty of the ordinary British soldier be he moslem or be he ... well, what - anything else. But worse, much worse, that such depraved souls should seek to cut out from the loyal herd just one soldier and slaughter him like a dog - to hold his life so cheap that the murdering of him leaves us just what - unmoved, a footnote on this blog, just another incident in the war for freedom (the war aginst terror)? No, That's disgusting.

And I rage! Rage! Rage! Rage!

My anger knows no bounds.

For this I could kill all moslems.

And I am ashamed.

And I am so, oh so very, angry that they, the "damned and insolent mohammedan horde" have made me feel this way. No-one, but no-one, attacks a soldier serving his country in this way. That they do so demonstrates only one thing - their own depravity. May God curse them to Hell for ever.

My point, you may well ask. It is this - such crimes against our loyal servicemen, and servicewomen, are doubly heinous, simply by virtue of being attacks against those who cannot fight back. We civilians can. Their loyalty and their oaths preclude them from so doing. That is what makes this attack so very disgusting, so sick-making, so everything we have come to expect, regrettably, from the rabid, mad-dog musselman.

If you can't see that, if you can't see how this must, has to be, a turning point, then I weep for you and despair for you. This is not about the lack of "celebration or pride" in the moslem communities which have provided these loyal and wonderful servicemen - it is about our attitude to our servicemen, no matter from which community they may have volunteered.

Your words, Hugh, for once, do not do justice to this (failed) outrage - nor do they begin to address the anger which all true British people must feel.

This is not just about a moslem attack - it is also about how we honour and regard our servicemen. This is, like it or not, a demonstration of the fundamental differences between islamic psuedo-states and our countries.

Sorry, Hugh, but you have failed to address the fundamental issue here - the fact that the gulf between islam and the west is not just one of ideology and religion but is so deeply cultural, also, that no rapprochement can ever be possible.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 1, 2007 12:52 AM

Hugh/

It's not just about being a moslem - it's also about being an Englishman.

"...And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us..."

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 1, 2007 12:59 AM

"it is about our attitude to our servicemen..."

Posted by necessitasnonhabetlegem.

In Bhiwandi (Maharashtra) two Policemen(Hindus of course) were incinerated to death by Muslims. There was no outrage, no punishment. Instead a call to "understand the grievances of muslims and provide healing touches". The lives of Infidels have no value at all for the muslims.And no muslim, yes, not a single muslim, moderates and unborn muslims included, genuinely feels for the slaying of Infidels.

Posted by: Crows&Cows at February 1, 2007 1:05 AM

CrowS&Cows/

My point, exactly - and well made.

This is not just about a moslem attack - it is also about how we view the defenders of our liberty. If we truly valued them then this one outrage would provoke so much anger that the cheap and tawdry so-called morality of islam would be swept into the gutter by the vociferous rage of all true freedom loving peoples.

Instead, this outrage, this enormity, this blatant challenge to morality becomes just another, yes, just another (Yawn) mohammedan terror act and is not, cannot, be seen, even by Hugh, for the end point that it really should be!

My last quote, for those of you who do not have a passing acquaintance with the main canon, was from Henry 5 (Willy Wobbledagger) and the full quote, by the King, is:

What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin:
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires:
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

But then, you all knew that, didn't you?

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 1, 2007 1:22 AM

Oh, and by-the-way, Crispin and Crispinian were twin brothers who, for their faith in Christ, were beheaded by the Roman Governor of Belgic Gaul in 284AD - or thereabouts - and they are the patron Saints of cobblers, tanners and all who work with leather. Strange, but true.

Their Saints' Day is October 25th. True, freedom loving Englishmen still raise a glass in their memory on this day.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 1, 2007 1:36 AM

pez,

you said,

"The backlash will eventually happen. The best gift for both civilizations is distance from each other, the sooner the better."

If the backlash doesn't happen "sooner" then it will no longer be that. If the percentage of Moslems is high enough, it will no longer be a backlash, it will be a civil war.

The solution: curtail immigration of Moslems--severely. Deport all Moslems convicted of anti-American activities--citizens or not--to wherever--Western Sahara, Empty Quarter, country of origin. Yes, they will be our enemies, but they are that already.

It will be better to have the enemies outside than inside.

The separation suggested by pez is an idea before its time, as is the solution to prevent civil war: "them against "us."

Grim? Perhaps. With the present demographics, unavoidable.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at February 1, 2007 1:39 AM

" Places like the U.S. will pick up the pieces and excell once again,lead out of the dark created by the loathsome lost children of the world of islam.

dal al-harb"

Well, I can't help but agree with you. We're headed that way - As I quoted - it's been told "The U.S. will be brought to it's knees." But that's as far down as we'll go. We all have the WILL - the KNOW-HOW to begin again. We all know something - and we'll all pitch in and help each other - like in Pioneer Days.

It would be easy - but we can do it. Avoiding past mistakes.

Posted by: allat at February 1, 2007 1:41 AM

Said targeted soldier and his buddies should be left alone with these suspects to ask a few questions about who gives the orders, time to go get a cup of coffee.......
Seriously, whoever tried to orchestrate this will try again, they must be found if it takes a guided missile hit, no matter how many "innocents" are sheilding the perpetrator. This can not be allowed, or Britain is lost if they can't even protect their troops at home. It's time they rethought their anti-capital punishment law, it's not for vengeance or spectators, it is for protecting people from evil crimes, from evil people, like this. Of course, all but the one who actually held the sword, not those who help abduct or hold down the victim, would be "innocent" technically. The saying and practice used to be "those who ride with outlaws, hang with outlaws" and it's nostalgia time.

Posted by: Catawhumpus at February 1, 2007 1:48 AM

"To those who believe that ALL muslims are suspect for joining this jihad, what do you propose should be done with them? I'm curious to know.

Edward"

2. Be humanly deported to a Muslim country of their choosing. The ‘last jizya’ should be one year of living expenses in their new home."

Pez"

Now, we're really between the devil and the sea. Those are not easy questions.

We can talk and talk - and not find the solution.

And what if we were to deport every muslim? Do we want them all to concentrate in one place and battle us to get back in?

As to moderate, doesn't it strike you that the question of " if we suspect them and push them to the edge" the moderates will turn radical?

And someone said " well if they turn radical they weren't very moderate in the first place."

BUt what if in the West's severe resistance the moderates ask themselves, " Of well, even if we tried the Eurpns & the Amer. don't believe us - and punish us collectively - SO WHAT'S THE USE?"

This is a very delicate point. Not all moslems are as strong as Ibn Warriq or that lady that appeared on the YouTube and challenged the clerics.

We must still procede carefully and with Maat.

Posted by: allat at February 1, 2007 1:55 AM

"We have met the enemy and he is us"---Pogo

But then, you all knew that, didnt you?

Posted by: guide inside at February 1, 2007 1:58 AM

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother;"

Yes, I loved that:

We band of brothers.

Henry V reincarnated in Patrick Henry!

"I drink to that, good Rum
and raise my cup
To Liberty!"

Posted by: allat at February 1, 2007 2:12 AM

If these allegations are true, then this would be the second Islamic kidnap and murder plot in exactly the same district of Birmingham (Alum Rock). The previous one was in 1984 and resulted in the torture and murder of Indian diplomat Ravindre Mhatre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravindra_Mhatre

Following the conviction of two of his killers, a campaign was launched to get them freed which eventually became the "People's Justice Party" and gained some local council seats. In March 2006, it's councillors joined the dhimmi Liberal Party in the UK, despite their association with terrorists.

Lots of coincidences there...

Posted by: Edward Pellew at February 1, 2007 2:34 AM

"But then, you all knew that, didn't you?"

Posted by: Dominic.

Willie Wobbledagger?

Uh no, I didn't know that.

Posted by: Short, fat, and a double chin at February 1, 2007 2:53 AM

JM,

re

"There are four classifications [of Moslems] in this active and hot war:

1. Free thinking defenders of Democracy
2. Moderate muslims who believe in Democracy but do nothing to defend it
3. Muslims who believe in the actions of the jihadist
4. Jihadists"

What to do with them?

I have a proposal--for each one of these groups. It may not be perfect, but it's a start. Any further suggestions will help us come up with a plan. Perhaps not implementable at the present, nor in the immediate future--but it might come to where we need one in a hurry, in the near future.

My proposal is at

http://islamic-danger.blogspot.com/2007/01/classification-of-moslems-for-taxonomic.html

Posted by: unicorns62000 at February 1, 2007 4:31 AM

Concerned Canadian, they are not here to fit in, they are hear to take the country for Allah,
Mohammad said....
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Ishaq:288 “Allah divided the booty stolen from the first caravan after he made spoils permissible. He gave four-fifths to those He had allowed to take it and one-fifth to His Apostle.”
This is their god who divided the booty, a god who they insist is the same as our God...

Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Their god tells them over and over again to take the world, slaughter all who resist and this is all they are going, there will be no moderate muslims when they are called, as if they dont fight they are also slaughered just as we used to do in our armed forces if someone ran away.
It is NOT a religion, it is an armed force.. and they are mutiplying to bred their own army behind enemy lines, us...

Posted by: Gaye at February 1, 2007 5:22 AM

Yes we are at the same crossroads we were with Chamberlain and his "piece of paper signed by Mr Hitler". We await our next Churchill, a politician with the guts and commitment to stand up and tell the truth about "our Muslim brothers".
The truth is they don't belong here, The UK (and the rest of the civilised world) is at war with Islam. Get wise, stop being "politically correct" and "non racist". The racist argument used by so many Dhimmis, is invalid anyway. Islam is not a race, it is a politicised religion/culture/belief. To oppose a religion or political belief on moral grounds is not racist, no more so than to oppose Nazism. Islam IS a form of Nazism, a most extreme and primitive form. Nazis were easier to beat militarily, they valued their own lives and consequently could be scared into surrender when faced with overwhelming odds. They also relied on an identifiable industrial infrastructure to support their military. This infrastructure could be attacked and destroyed (as it was) bringing the Nazis to defeat. Islamists are more difficult to fight, they will happily sacrifice their lives for Allah, therefore you cannot scare them. Nor do they have an Industrial infrastructure we can destroy. Akin to the Japanese kamikaze, they will just try to take as many of us with them when they die as possible. The difference is these suicide bombers kill women and children on underground trains. The Japanese were dealt with by a weapon of untold destruction, the parallel is that these maniacs also will ultimately have to be.
In the meantime, we in the UK await our new Churchill, please come soon, these new Nazi bastards have made it past the beaches and the landing grounds, they are in our cities killing our Women and Children.

Posted by: Defender of The Realm at February 1, 2007 5:33 AM

I am confused here, hasnt Naseem also said that we are in for it that they are going to take us by force, that they will destroy us etc???. He is sounding all peaceful and nice here..
but then as long as they dont mean it in their hearts and as long as it is for the cause of Allah, they are allowed to lie and be our friends...
We except every race, person etc regardless of religion, colour or creed, but muslims only except you if you are Muslim.. even then they kill their own.. remember we are not the innocent...we are the infidels to be destroyed if we will NOT submit to Allah...But wait, we are still in danger if we do submit as we might belong the wrong group of Islam.

Posted by: Gaye at February 1, 2007 5:37 AM

Assalamaua alaikum all,

I have been reading your comments with a sort of a ghastly fascination. They encompass..."We should do this to muslims, we should pay them off for a year, we should deport them, stop them from having childrens ...blah blah".

Horrific as this scenario could have been, I feeel it is the barbaric scope of it that has fascinated the peoples of the UK.

As Dominic implied it's the knowledge that this will stop not only brave muslims sacrificing for the infedel...but may well stop infedel from joining it's own armed forces.

So this is not just one or two soldiers being killed but actually about dealing a hugh physological blow to the crusader...a bit like not only bringing the war "home"...but also actually resurracting the crusader one that happened about 1000 years ago. Don't you wish you could curse your crusader ancestors for this right now!..Doesn't this cause hatred in your heart...why did they bother...and cause us this hardship now?

Someone invented the camera and photographs to boot. Wonderful invention, the kafur womens can snap and have memories of what beautful womens they were holing their cats and they can do this when after 50 years they look like obese prunes...a bit like "stillfedup" probably...this is matialistic and false...just like her.

Islam invented a camera too ....it's called the koran....this camera takes photos at a physological level too...it says to them that only muslims can speak for Islam...and have a direct connection with our lord Allah SWT....not the infedel...infedel must become wuslim/muslim to see these photos.

Hugh talked about "And Naseem's prescription for the triumph of Islam -- no terrorism, merely a quiet slow conquest, through Da'wa and propaganda and demographic conquest".

This is not about conquest, this about the photo of Islam....it is you who choose to see this as conquest...not me ...not us...we only want to see the photo....you can see this photo too...it's called reverse intregration.

We muslim want to show this photo to our (and any other willing) childrens, to make them see what the prophet Mohd (SAW) saw.

The problem with these lunds is that they see a different picture....well let them see thier pictures in prison...ignore them after throwing away the key..

So please, no more talk about deportations, or muslim crush-endos ...we have work to do ...polish those lenses in your eyes...see what I see...see reverse integration, mild sharia,....contolled womens and peace.

Posted by: Naseem at February 1, 2007 6:00 AM

Naseem, you say that dont we wish we could curse our ancestors now,,,
Yes you are right, but not for the reason you think I wish that they had opened their eyes at the Muslims marching across the lands sooner so as so many people both muslim and infidels were not destroyed..
Naseem, if your people had not had a go at trying to take the world back then, the crusaders would not have had to form to stop muslims marching across their lands... And as now our leaders are loathed to fight back hoping it will all go away, and as then we will have to fight if Muslims will not stop their bloody onslaught...

You say, Islam invented a camera too ....it's called the koran.. and yes you are right again, a camera of hate, slaughter, rape and take the world for allah slaughtering all who get in the way... Naseem, I dont know how you can follow a man who manipulated the un-intellegent people of the time... he changed his laws as it suited him...when you read all that hatred etc in there doesnt it repulse you??? or are you totally blind.

Posted by: Gaye at February 1, 2007 6:32 AM

naseem, a photo of Islam is the poverty your people continually live in and the poverty that happens when you take over a country... It would scare me to think that countries like China, Japan, India who once were also living in terrible poverty like your people are, but they seem to have had the intellect to pull themselves out of the poverty, and they have not had the help with the trillions coming from the sale of oil and the trillions that our governments from the west have been pouring into your countries...they are an incrediable people who have worked to get where they are... their aim is to grow and help their people, your countries aim is to destroy...

Posted by: Gaye at February 1, 2007 6:38 AM

..contolled womens and peace. said by naseem,
these are words made by a weak minded man, a man and a society so unsure of itself and with so much lack of confidence in itself that it seeks to control everything. islam is a sick demented cult. naseem you are a liar, and your cult will never take over the free world.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at February 1, 2007 6:50 AM

another point those words of "controlled womens", it was muhammud the sick who raped and had sex with an underage girl. look who needs control Naseems, its not for the women to cover up, but you have such weak minded muslim men they cannot control themselves. my dogs have more control over themselves, they dont go around breeding puppies! your cult is perverted and tainted by satan himself!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at February 1, 2007 6:53 AM

Assalamau alaikum zena,

We do haev weak minded men in Islam...sure...their upbringing ensures that they spend little time in the kitchen and so on.

But sometimes when in the UK I also see the faithless wild slutty womens freezing their meats on a friday in your town centres. They have no sharam or hiya.

How can YOU bring up your childrens to mutarity so early..and the drink and drug and lack of hijab.

Friday is also Juma day...a day to pay reverence to Allah our lord...not to show off those titties.

While I agree completely that no one is to be treated like the soldiers...things do need to change on the womens front. You only need to look at the feminanity of womens in Pak to see the difference.

Posted by: Naseem at February 1, 2007 7:36 AM

The fact that it is serving British servicemen who seem to be being targetted and marked for the most disgusting death the sick Islamic mind could conjure up fills all right minded human beings with a sense of revulsion. As for deporting them back to their cesspits of origin, there would be no need if our Governments followed a simple plan - bring back conscription!(National Service) and I think it could be guaranteed that not a Muslim male between the ages of 18 and 35 would be anywhere to be seen in our countries. (Britain and America)This way the governments could avoid charges of islamophobia, spurious racism etc. Or is this too simple? If on the other hand one of their plots to carry this out succeeded I really think it woud be the "straw that broke the camels back" At least here in Scotland it would.

Posted by: rookie at February 1, 2007 9:29 AM

Curse my crusader ancestors? Only for making the mistake of thinking that those muslims who feigned peace were really just patient waiting for the time when they had strength and opportunity to strike, and for not wiping the earth of them when they had the chance. No one ever denied muslim access to the Temple Mount to pray when it was held by the Templar order, which was formed to make it safe for pilgrims to vist the Holy Lands. The incursion of islam into non-islam lands is what started the wars, and islam retreated. And religion or people only deserve the tolerance, respect and kindness they show to others. If islam chooses to destroy others, they will be destroyed, by their own choice. Reprisals against troops at home is terrorism and will not be tolerated, those carrying out these attacks had better hope the police catch up with them before vigilantes do. And that is a "terror" that the terrorists have yet to experience.

Posted by: Catawhumpus at February 1, 2007 10:29 AM

If there is one thing that I know to be fact... it's that ALL religion is evil, and has been the cause or reason of pretty much all war and strife all over the world since it's conception. whether muslim, christian, jew, hindu... we're all doomed.

cheers

Posted by: edward at February 1, 2007 1:48 PM

edward
If that diatribe was the only thing you know for sure than you my friend know nothing. I hope you were just passing through..have a nice day.

Posted by: pismopal at February 1, 2007 2:54 PM

Naseem,

You write about the “crusaders” a lot, obviously not approvingly.

A little history lesson.
Arab armies swept out of the Saudi peninsula in the 7th Century to attack what was then Christendom, basically centred around the Mediterranean.
Countries like Eygpt, Syria and that province the Romans named Palestine were all Christian once.
Arab armies crossed the Straights of Gibraltar in 711 to invade Spain.
It was not until 1095 that Pope Urban II called for the first crusade.

The idea that hostility between Christians and Muslims started during the Crusades does not bear examination when confronted with the facts of history.
It was your lot that started the wars of religion, not ours.

Posted by: Odyessus at February 1, 2007 3:27 PM

pismopal, give me one good example of how any religion has helped promote peace in the world.

Posted by: edward at February 1, 2007 5:19 PM

Why the hell is it that everytime there is a terrorist plot ot terror act anywhere in the world,then the name Pakistan connection has to pop up???

Is this pakistan or Teroristan???

Anybody wanna bet a 1000$ ,that next terrorist activity or plot to be exposed in future,will again definetly have Pakistan related to it from some angle or the other.
Anybody wanna bet on this.
Hey Naseem wanna bet on this???

Posted by: Indiana_jones at February 1, 2007 6:19 PM

THE need of the time is an USA-Europe-Israeli-Indian axis (or call it Christian-Jews-Hindu axis) to battle the cancer of Jihad becasue if not controlled now it will spread and spread and one day it may be too late.

In short all these religion dont hate each other, but Islam hates all these three religion and uniting is neccasry to fight the cancer

Posted by: Indiana_jones at February 1, 2007 6:49 PM

edward

Trying to make people less greedy and stupid than they are in nature is one hell of a job. A high failure rate is inevitable. But I am sure that if everyone was as good, clearminded and honest as you seem to be the world would be a much better place.

BTW I could not say I was a Christian as it would mean renouncing sin which can be rather fun.

Posted by: Fred at February 2, 2007 3:30 AM

Naseem/

"As Dominic implied it's the knowledge that this will stop not only brave muslims sacrificing for the infedel [sic]...but may well stop infedel [sic] from joining it's [sic] own armed forces."

Sorry, Naseem. Although, from your writings, I know you to be a seeker after God and probably a calm and good person (even by my lights) this is not what I implied. I think that you romance the role of these ordinary moslem British soldiers too much. Almost certainly, they were not "sacrificing for the infedel [sic] ..." as you phrase it, but were merely ordinary soldiers defending the realm in which they happened to live and have their being - as all good men and women must do.

I also think that you are wrong to assume that this incident "...may well stop infedel [sic] from joining it's [sic] own armed forces." Indeed, I would venture to suggest that quite the reverse is likely to be true and that this incident is far more likely to encourage non-moslems to join our Armed Forces in order to battle against the puerile, sterile and evil beliefs of islam. I think that you have acquired very little in the way of understanding the mentality of we British if you think that this incident will discourage volunteers to our Armed Services - the numbers of whom, incidentally, have been at an all time high since moslems perpetrated the outrage which happened on 7/7.

No, my dear Naseem, you have completely misinterpreted this event. Once again, in your goodness and your innocence - perhaps, if I may so venture, your sheltered, feminine, wife and mother innocence - you have failed to perceive that moslems were prepared to commit the most heinous of acts - the lascivious, blood-lust murder of a serviceman - and to justify such an act by recourse to their faith and its writings.

My dear woman, there is nothing that you can say which can make this better than it is. These moslems who proposed this act - not, perhaps, moslems of whom you would approve - are, none-the-less, moslems; they believe that they can justify their putative actions by referring to the core texts of the very islam which you seek, in your innocence and goodness, to promote. So, please tell me, how can you deprecate their proposed actions - as, indeed, I think that you did - whilst remaining a believer in islam? Do you have some special insight into your so-called holy books that is at variance from their interpretation of the texts? Or, perhaps you feel that your god has given you some direct guidance on this issue?

I await your reply with interest.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 2, 2007 11:38 PM

Naseem/

You said, in a post earlier on this thread,:

"....stillness is a virtue."

Sorry, old girl, but you are wrong. That is one of the most fundamental heresies ever to exist - in just about every faith including islam. It is known in the West as 'Quietism'. It is, generally speaking, a sort of false or exaggerated mysticism, which under the guise of the loftiest spirituality contains erroneous notions which, if consistently followed, would prove fatal to morality.

It is fostered by Pantheism, and by Ahmadism in islam, and similar theories, and it involves peculiar notions concerning the Divine co-operation in human acts.

In a narrower sense Quietism designates the mystical element in the teaching of various sects which have sprung up within all religions, including islam, only to be cast out as heretical. In some of these the Quietistic teaching has been the conspicuous error, in others it has been a mere corollary of more fundamental erroneous doctrine.

All the varieties of Quietism insist, with more or less emphasis on interior passivity, the essential condition of perfection as being passivity or giving in; and all have been proscribed in very explicit terms by both Christianity and islam and all other major religions.

Your Quietist reactions and beliefs are, as you can see, not unknown in the world outside mohammedanism, nor are they, in any sense, unique. Do you think that we are unreasoned and uneducated idiots? It seems so! Our philosophy and our theosophy are older than yours and, as a consequence, much more well developed.

So, do not seek to patronise us in this way. We are not, as you seem to imagine us to be, fools. Your juvenile, evil and puerile faith has invented nothing that we have not already thought of.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 3, 2007 1:08 AM

Dominic:

I am a three-tear veterean of JW and I think you are remarkable. I would love to correspond with you. Could you send Robert your amail address with instructions to forward it to me? He knows me quite well.

Regards,

CCGW

Posted by: CGW at February 3, 2007 3:56 AM

That was SUPPOSED to be just CGW!

Posted by: CGW at February 3, 2007 3:57 AM

Dominic:

OK, 'veteran" and "email" also. It's very early here and I'm very tired. I didn't proofread.

Sorry for all the errors.

CGW

Posted by: CGW at February 3, 2007 4:08 AM