l would think these brave soldiers will be targeted by islamists for a very long. they might even need to have a total make over. perhaps if smart enough would become Christians, after realizing life as Muslim appostate means death.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at February 2, 2007 10:31 AM

Would they have done the same if the target was an infidel?

In any event, a job well done. Now they will be on the "to kill" list. If I were them I'd give up being a member of the cult of death-they're already enemies of Illah anyway. They, better than most Muslims, should be able to see just how evil the cult of death really is after all this.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at February 2, 2007 10:34 AM

To my mind, these Moslem soliders are either MINOs, or double agents.

Paranoid? Keep in mind all the double agents who did their dirty work during the Cold War. It isn't hard to imagine a putatively loyal Moslem faking it.

Whatever the case, this news is damaging because it will emplace the myth of Unicorns that much deeper into all those hopeful Western psyches out there. Just when the myth was starting to loosen a bit...

A further difficulty is that there are no data on MINOs, their frequency, reversion rate, uncloaked MINOs, or the like.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at February 2, 2007 10:39 AM

"Whatever the case, this news is damaging because it will emplace the myth of Unicorns that much deeper into all those hopeful Western psyches out there. Just when the myth was starting to loosen a bit"...
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at February 2, 2007 10:39 AM

APF,

Agreed 100%. I am thoroughly convinced the "moderate" Muslim does not exist, and had an irrefutable argument to support that claim to others.

While this seems to set it back a bit, I also suspect some sort of ploy being used here.

Posted by: awake at February 2, 2007 10:50 AM

Let's not be too quick to condemn any Muslims that actually cooperate against the jihadists. As often as I rail against Islam, I never lose sight of the fact that there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of otherwise decent human beings that are trapped inside Islam and seeking a way out. The argument for Reformation is alive because of that fact.

The unfortunate truth, however, is that even as we feel sympathy for the Muslims that are not truly our enemies, we can not afford to continue to worry about them before we worry about us. My best advice to Muslims that truly want to stop the Islamists: convert to Christianity or some truly peaceful religion and relocate you and your family in any way you can. Honestly -- the direction is clear as to where the conflict is headed, and if I was Islamic and seeking answers, I would be reading the very same materials I read today, reading the letters of Apostates, reading the historic accounts of Muhammad, etc. Not much would differ, except perhaps I'd be having a harder time finding the materials and an even harder time surviving while reading them.

In the end, choices are tough on all sides, but there's on side you don't want to be on, and that's the losing side. So, start from that point, I suppose.

I've stated I feel the Islamists are winning. I think a great measure of this fact is how few "moderate" Muslims actually seem to exist when push comes to shove. Another measure is the fact that "reversion" to Islam continues at a speedy pace all over the world -- people tend to gravitate towards a winner, so if Islam is losing, I'm not seeing much sign of it. And lastly, we have ourselves in the West as our own worst enemies -- the Jihad Janes of the world -- and we can not for a minute not recognize that we could end up being our own destroyers even before Islam succeeds in rebuilding the Caliphate over our remains.

So, yes, a few good Muslims stand up for secularism and multiculturalism, but there are millions ready to behead them for doing so. I don't like those odds.

Posted by: Foehammer at February 2, 2007 11:07 AM

APF wrote: "A further difficulty is that there are no data on MINOs, their frequency, reversion rate, uncloaked MINOs, or the like."

That in and of itself is sufficient data when formulating effective treatment models at this stage in our combat against the disease that is Islam.

Islam is not healthy for infidels.

Muslims do not "help" non-muslims for altruistic reasons.

Muslim engage in cooperative behavior that contributes to the survival of their species.

Non-muslims should proceed with eradication and inoculation.

Posted by: Malinois at February 2, 2007 11:34 AM

Remember, these fellows have been toughened up by having their fellow Muslims spit on them and threaten them non-stop since they joined up.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at February 2, 2007 11:35 AM

Look what's going on in Thailand

A muslim coup leader and a non elected, appointed by the coup leader, muslim interior minister send the terror in the south spiraling and copycats or original southern islamic terror, as we know happened over the new year in Bangkok, were applied and still will, but who knows.

Just the presence of a muslim sends wrong signals to the islamic executives called terrorists.

Posted by: Arnie at February 2, 2007 11:43 AM

"Police praise Muslim soldiers who acted as 'bait' for beheading gang,"

Now let's wait to hear what the Muslim establishment has to say about these two soldiers."

Will Mosques throughout Britian be ringing with sermons about how courageous these two men were in defending their country and "true Islam?"

Will young British Muslims be told in their madrassas that these young men represent the hightest ideals of the Islamic faith?

Will Muslims be told by their Imans that Muhammad would be proud to count these soldiers as his faithful followers?

Will these young men be held up as heros to British muslims?

Don't hold your breath!!! The best they'll hear and see is deafening silence and disapproving stares.

And they'll be lucky if that's all they get.

Posted by: rational at February 2, 2007 11:52 AM

This is all well and good, but why publicly advertise the sting operation? That only makes jihadists more informed about anti-jihad operations.

Posted by: aynrandgirl at February 2, 2007 12:00 PM

aynrandgirl-

It shows the Muslims the sort of loyalty that we expect of them and, in turn, winds them up a treat. Two for the price of one.

Posted by: Wishbone at February 2, 2007 12:15 PM

Yes, well done those two men. They were brave but I bet they were armed.

Posted by: Elephant at February 2, 2007 12:44 PM

Wishbone,
I'm guessing,it means that they were to be an example to the flock,more than to us "unbelievers".

Posted by: anonamustafa at February 2, 2007 1:17 PM

anonamustafa-

Indeed. The hint wasn't that subtle that it would go unnoticed by most of them. I'd guess that in Friday prayers somewhere in Britain, this very thing is being seethed over. Poor dears.

Posted by: Wishbone at February 2, 2007 1:28 PM

Foehammer,

"Let's not be too quick to condemn any Muslims that actually cooperate against the jihadists."

It's not a matter of condemning, but just a matter of remaining vigilantly and rationally suspicious.

"As often as I rail against Islam, I never lose sight of the fact that there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of otherwise decent human beings that are trapped inside Islam and seeking a way out."

We can be aware of this and try to help these millions who are trapped -- but: we should never let our efforts to help them obstruct our vigilant and rational suspicion: at any given moment where our suspicion is raised, this should trump our feelings of compassion. The stakes are too high.

Posted by: remote_control at February 2, 2007 1:41 PM

Gee, more pathetically typical and predictable banter from the over-zealous fans of this site. A couple of Muslims in uniform who bravely dared to risk their necks, seemingly aren't entitled to the respect that many expect the public to give our men in uniform in general. No, we have to suggest that their religion and culture, soup to nuts, is entirely evil, that they had better convert to another religion, or even that we should still be suspicious of them regardless.

I find in these comments an very real dichotomy. Just how do you expect to win a war on terror without the support of Muslims who believe in the fight? How do you expect to recruit badly needed expertise in languages, from people who are far better experts about the religion and culture than, oh, everyone posting here put together.
Your comments are equivalent to stabbing our allies in their backs! So nice of you to do that after their unambiguously brave, patriotic, and in the end, highly effective efforts.

Some of my fellow Americans are so blind to suggest that sectarian bigotry become institutionalized along the lines of McCarthyism.

I for one proudly salute the soldiers for a job well done, and I support those who support them, and -GASP- I think you might find quite a number of Muslims supporting them if you deigned to look. Some people do know that extremist political Islam is not at all what a billion people subscribe to. Maybe the don't speak loudly enough for Spencer, Fitzgerald, & Co. Are those currently serving in our nations military ever given a chance to do so?

Care to stab the backs of the over 6,500 brave Muslim Americans serving in our military at the moment while your at it?

http://www.patrioticapaam.org/Pentagon_Muslims_Serve.htm

Posted by: zzazzeefrazzee at February 2, 2007 1:44 PM

beheading gang

I could live to be a thousand years and never be able to wrap my mind around such a vile concept.

Posted by: yadayada at February 2, 2007 2:27 PM

Overheard at a recent Beaumont and Fletcher melodrama workshop:

zzazzeefrazzee: "Why, slaves, 'tis in our power to hang ye."

(in unison) Spencer, Fitzgerald & Co. and JW fans:
"Very likely,
'Tis in our powers, then, to be hanged, and scorn ye."

Posted by: Malinois at February 2, 2007 2:59 PM

zzazzeefrazzee : good observations there, I also note Robert Spencer's observation that we should salute these brave men. It is interesting to note that if an article does not go in the way some of the audience on here wants them all to go, more conspiracy has to be dug out, with double agents and additional plots and plans. This really does make some of the posters on here look like paranoid fools.

I am prepared to accept these soldiers by their actions and I respect them for it.

Posted by: payingattention at February 2, 2007 4:43 PM

I'm willing to give those British Muslim soldiers the benefit of the doubt. Here in the States, I've run into teenaged Somali refugees who are interested in joining the US military because they believe that before long, it will give them a chance to take on the crazies back in the Old Country.

Now, I hope the courts do the absolute worst they possibly can to the beheading gang.

Posted by: Kepha at February 2, 2007 4:43 PM

"Just how do you expect to win a war on terror without the support of Muslims who believe in the fight?"

We are not fighting a war on terror. Terror is a tactic, not an enemy. We are fighting a war on Islam, or "radical" Islam, if that makes you feel better.

No one so far in this thread has condemned the Muslim soldiers for their actions. It's the exact opposite sentiment, really. We question why it was leaked, whether intentionally or not, that they were working with British authorities. We question whether it is another PC multiculturalist attempt to convince the masses that, "see moderate Muslims do exist."

Spencer, Fitzgerald & Co., as you refer to them, do look for and encourage the voices of moderate Muslims to speak out against violence committed in the name of Islam. The actual problem is not that do not speak loudly enough, but rather that they do not speak at all. Maybe you can tell us where and why they are all hiding, that is of course, if you deign to get off of that high horse that you rode in on for just a second or two.

Do some research and refute, if you possibly can, the mountains of empirical and historical evidence that Robert and Hugh have presented and continue to present to support there respective positions. Your leftist, pro-Islamic comments are what they are - unsupported, PC multiculturalist crapola. Please pardon us in the JW/DW community, for not fawning over the 6,500 Muslim American allies which we have proceeded to "stab in the back", by your melodramatic estimation.

Posted by: awake at February 2, 2007 4:47 PM

Yo, zzazzeefrazzee,

Before you get all hot and bothered about "the people at this site" (whom you seem to wish to paint with a rather broad brush) and before you condemn all and sundry who might have a differing opinion (perhaps more skeptical, etc.), and with a self-righteous air state: "Maybe the[y, referring to the Muslim soldiers] don't speak loudly enough for Spencer, Fitzgerald, & Co." I wish to remind you of the following:
1) First, who do you think posted this article, eh? if not "Spencer, Fitzgerald, & Co."?
2) Secondly, who do you think wrote: "Now here are some courageous anti-jihadist Muslims, who didn't just mouth empty words, as so many self-proclaimed moderates do, but went out on a limb and showed where they stood by their actions. I salute them." Eh? Who wrote: "I salute them". Well, who wrote that? That was posted by Robert.
3) I also salute these brave Muslim soldiers.

Posted by: J.S. at February 2, 2007 4:51 PM

Rather the entire operation was a giant con trick. This fits a growing perception of a post-9/11 world in which innocent Muslims are demonized, and the terror threat manufactured to suit the dark designs of the West’s Judaeo-Christian elite.

Hmmm. Sounds good, until you look back on what Moslems activists and their "moderate" boosters themseleves agree definitely happened at the hand of Moslems. For example, there was that time Osama bin Laden threatened to flatten any city in Congressional district that went Bush in the 2004 election. Then there was Abu Musab Zarqawi’s joyously sawing that dude’s head off in that Internet broadcast, and yet another one where the Italian journalist got decapitated, then the time...

... I could go on for hundreds of examples of when Islamic innocents have acknowledged their own misdeeds.

Of course, this post is meaningless if you buy into the abundant Unicorns theory.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at February 2, 2007 5:08 PM

zzazzeefrazzee,

Individual muslims can be loyal BUT Islam as a faith is disloyal. It simply proves that individual muslims can be enticed to side with us.....and so can individual non-muslims side with Islam. Just look at the Dhimmis!

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at February 2, 2007 6:28 PM

Also you noticed what the loyal Muslims wanted to do with the loyal British soldier who was still calling himself a muslim.

Behead him....

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at February 2, 2007 6:30 PM

I am prepared to accept these soldiers by their actions and I respect them for it.

One can be prepared to accept these soldiers by their actions and respect them for it, and still continue to be rationally suspicious of them. Or are you incapable of patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time?

Posted by: remote_control at February 2, 2007 6:43 PM

Personally I think that this is great propaganda and it will stop any more muslims from joining the British Army. The British Government has spent somewhere in the region of £90,000,000 to recruit 300 muslim recruits. Which works out at about £300,000 per recruit. With that sort of money they could have supplied the overstretched British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with some decent body armour and some decent protected vehicles, not those stupid soft top Land rovers they have been running around in. They could certainly have recruited a new regiment of Gurkha's from Nepal to add to the two regiment that are still part of the British Army. Troops by the way that have been loyal to the British Crown since we started to recruit them after the British Nepalese war in 1818. One thing that is absolutely certain is that they would not roll any hand grenades into officers tents and cost the state millions in pensions prosecution fees and keeping that illegitimate son of a bitch in military prison for the rest of his life. Show them the film of the beheading of the 11 Nepalese cooks which happen a couple of years ago in Iraq. Then send them to that district where it happened. Let them organizes there own patrols, give them a free hand. I can assure you peace would reign. Americans are extremely proud of there armed forces and rightly so, but ask a Brit who has fought with them, how he would rate the Ghurkas compared with his own troops and he would most likely give the Ghurkas a higher rating.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at February 2, 2007 7:47 PM

these soldiers have betrayed the umma and will be targets for the rest of thier lives ....more likely thier family will be 'made examples of'
you cant beat islam by working with it because you cant trust ANY muslims.....taqiyya......the only way to beat islam is to separate your country from it. anyone entering a kuffar country must eat a bacon and egg roll before getting through the gate

Posted by: mick at February 2, 2007 8:43 PM

I tip my hat and hope the Queen will bestow a medal of honor to them, so as their children may have a Free college education and all the benefits of true patriots, but how many terrorist are there in Islam ?

We gotta long way to go.

As for the culprits, tear their heads off and put them on the internet !

Posted by: Jeff at February 2, 2007 8:54 PM

One swallow does not a summer make.

Posted by: Caroline at February 2, 2007 9:29 PM

Holger Dansker/

Why are you being deliberately misleading? It costs about £450,000 (about US $600,000) per British serviceman by the time that a British recruit enters full service with his/her British regiment - regardless of whether or not they happen to be moslem! Training and equiping todays modern, well-armed British soldier is a very expensive businness - that is why we seek to protect them so extremely on the battlefield!

Compare this with the Pentagon's figure for training and equiping the average US 'grunt' - $93,000. Enough said!

No longer are British Servicemen and women merely 'cannon fodder'. They are, rather, a professional and expensive resource and not one that my country can afford to have killed in stupid accidents, 'friendly fire' incidents (my great uncle served in WWII and referred to his his US coleagues as the 'Halt, BANG, Who goes there?' brigade - he, and his comrades, always reckoned that they were safer ten miles ahead or ten miles behind any American soldiers) and ill-conceived campaigns. You are deliberately seeking to confuse the issue and to bemuse the debaters here! Shame on you!

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 3, 2007 12:00 AM

"The courageous pair agreed to act like "tethered goats" in an attempt to catch the extremists plotting to kidnap them."

Courageous indeed, and all honour to them. They are a credit to their regiment(s) and I hope that they will be remembered on the roll(s) of honour of their regiment(s) - as they well deserve to be.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at February 3, 2007 12:05 AM

Yet more ant-British drivel from our so called allies. Robert Spencer got this right. If the reports are right these were indeed brave men. And the result? some scum in custody.

I just hope our political correctness ridden police and judiciary can filter out the truth from the rants of the bleeding hearts "Human Rights" lawyers who will already be clamouring to "defend" this scum.
I sincerely hope the evidence against them is bomb proof and sufficient to lock them all up for a long time. If they end up walking through "insufficient evidence" it will be a crime and do no more than strengthen the Islamists.

Personally I reckon we would have been better off keeping the police out of this. We should have waited for the Islamists to make a move and let Military authorities such as the SAS deal with them. There would then have been no prisoners to worry about. Bodies dont need expensive trials.

Posted by: Defender of The Realm at February 3, 2007 5:40 AM

MORE!MORE! MORE!

Posted by: screw'em at February 3, 2007 7:53 PM