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After some earlier controversy over the accuracy and provenance of stories about this, in a story entitled "Obama Says Voters Curious on His Faith," AP (thanks to all who sent this in) matter-of-factly notes that Presidential candidate Barack Obama was a Muslim when he was a child:
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Sunday he does not think voters have a litmus test on religion, whether evangelical Christianity or his childhood years in the Muslim faith."If your name is Barack Hussein Obama, you can expect it, some of that. I think the majority of voters know that I'm a member of the United Church of Christ, and that I take my faith seriously," Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.
It is certainly true that Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, ordered that apostates from Islam be put to death. Although this is frequently denied, his statement "Whoever changes his religion, kill him" (من بدل دينه فاقتلوه) appears in numerous authoritative Islamic sources, including Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, An-Nasai, the Muwatta of Imam Malik, Tayalisi, Ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban, the Sunan al-Kubraa, Bayhaqi, Abu Ya'laa, Humaidi, Abd al-Razzaq, and Ibn Abi Shaybah.
Western Muslims who claim that this is not Islamic law are often hailed as moderates and reformers. This, however, ignores the fundamental difference between denial and reform. If the Protestant Reformers had simply begun indignantly denying that the Catholic Church taught Transubstantiation and the sacramental priesthood, instead of arguing that such doctrines should be discarded, they would not have been reformers, but obfuscators. A genuine Islamic reformer today would acknowledge that the death penalty for apostasy is mainstream Islamic teaching, affirmed by all the madhahib, or schools of jurisprudence, and then explain why this should be set aside. But that is not the same thing as claiming that Islam doesn't teach this in the first place.
So is Obama under a death sentence? Probably not. As far as I know Obama has never explained when he left Islam and became a Christian. This is a crucial point, for according to Islamic law an apostate male is not to be put to death if he has not reached puberty (cf. 'Umdat al-Salik o8.2; Hidayah vol. II p. 246). Some, however, hold that he should be imprisoned until he is of age and then "invited" to accept Islam, but officially the death penalty for youthful apostates is ruled out.
There are several ways this could go with Obama. Fjordman writes, "This is a golden opportunity for American anti-Jihadis to expose the intolerance inherent to Islamic teachings. And it is even better that it is a man from the black community and the political Left, where Muslims find many of their sympathizers."
That is true -- it is an opportunity to call attention to this aspect of Islam that so many are so eager to cover up. However, I think that Obama's candidacy and religious history are more likely to work to the advantage of the Left and the jihadists, even if he flames out a la Howard Dean in 2004. For if the Islamic death penalty for apostasy is even allowed to come up in the mainstream media, smiling Islamic spokesmen will deny that Islam teaches this. They can even be honest and simply affirm that it doesn't apply to Obama at all, since he left Islam while still very young.
I believe it is most likely that the media and Obama's campaign will ignore the apostasy law altogether, and tar anyone who brings it up as a "bigot." The propagandists of CAIR, MPAC et al are quite savvy at portraying themselves as victims in response to presentations of uncomfortable aspects of Islam. And it is virtually inconceivable that there will be protests in the Islamic world over his apostasy, calls for his execution, etc. Remember that the Cartoon Rage and Pope Rage riots were orchestrated from above. The people who orchestrated them know enough not to shoot themselves in the foot. They (as well as Obama's campaign) have a chance here to portray Obama as someone who was raised as a Muslim and thus has a keen understanding of the Islamic world and the Islamic mind -- rather like the positioning of Bill Clinton as our "first black President." Given Obama's politics, it will not be hard to present him internationally as someone who understands Islam and Muslims, and thus will be able to smooth over the hostility between the Islamic world and the West. Muslim leaders worldwide will not be saying, "He was raised a Muslim. Isn't that terrible?" Rather, I suspect that both Obama's campaign and Muslim leaders worldwide will say, "He was raised a Muslim. Isn't that wonderful? At last, someone who can see our point of view."
In short, I will not be surprised if Obama's Muslim upbringing becomes the linchpin of an attempt to present him as the only candidate who can end the war on terror -- which, of course, he will propose to do by means of various varieties of appeasement.
Meanwhile, many, many people have been writing me, asking if he is a Muslim. I don't know anything more than anyone else: he says he isn't. Do I think he is secretly a Muslim still? No, I don't. I don't see any reason not to take him at his word. The thing that concerns me most about him is his politics, which will take us farther down the road of appeasement whatever his individual creed is.
UPDATE: The AP story has been altered, apparently in light of the fact that Obama's camp maintains he was never a Muslim.
Posted by Robert at February 12, 2007 3:59 AM
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Thank you, Mr. Spencer, for your very insightful comment on this issue. As a candidate with the possibility of winning the presidency, Mr. Obama worries me on a number of issues. He realizes that names are important. I have read that, until a few years ago, he went by the first name "Barrie" and that is what his family and early friends still call him. As a smart politician, he calculated that he would get more political mileage out his original birth name, Obama. How about his middle name, Hussein? Could that name be used to raise millions of dollars from Muslims in America, and money from the Middle East too, thru various channels. If he were elected, I am sure that CAIR and associates would be giving him all sorts of feel good awards, perhaps recognizing him as a member of a Muslim family who have made good in the world. He has an brother, who lives in the US and is an active Muslim. Would the "First Brother" have a role to play and could he be useful, once the votes are counted and Barrie aka Barak is in the White House? In short, Mr. Obama has a Muslim heritage, which could have serious consequences for US citizens if he is elected. Anything the Muslims can use to their advantage, regarding him, will be a negative for me and my family.
Posted by: maryrose![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at February 12, 2007 5:29 AM
I agree that the whole "apostate" issue would likely back fire against the right if they raise it. I also agree with maryrose in that he (Barak) worries me on a number of issues... in fact, from what little I have heard and read on his position on issues, I would say that "apostate" or not... Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddist, animist or other... I just don't like nor trust the guy.
Posted by: gnegypt at February 12, 2007 5:38 AM
...Obama is already showing signs that he would be an appeaser...The Muslims could invoke "the apostasy death sentence" if Obama began to act like a leader who shows the wisdom and strengths of the writers of our Constution or Bill of Rights...
....A true American, Obama is not....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 12, 2007 6:10 AM
I am not eligible to vote in the US, but I agree with Maryrose also.
I don't have any link but read somewhere that Barak Obama, although he attends church, doesn't have a lot of time for Christian philosphy.
Of course the big news down here in OZ and other places is our PM saying that alqaeda will be praying for Obama to win.
(it must be noted the PM Howard was answering a question on a tv show: not assessing Obama per se).
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21209203-662,00.html
There are stories all over the place.
Melanie Phillips has some good points:
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1461
"February 11, 2007
More wizard words from Oz
Australia’s Prime Minister John Howard has once again ventured where lesser leaders dare to tread and has laid into US presidential hopeful Barack Obama over his opposition to the Iraq war, saying it encourages terrorists and threatens to destabilize the Middle East.
‘I think that will just encourage those who want to completely destabilize and destroy Iraq, and create chaos and a victory for the terrorists to hang on and hope for an Obama victory,’ Howard said on Nine Network television. ‘If I were running al Qaeda in Iraq, I would put a circle around March 2008 and be praying as many times as possible for a victory, not only for Obama but also for the Democrats.’
Way to go, John! Not for the first time, I mourn the fact that John Howard can’t run for US President himself. "
Posted by: Gramfan at February 12, 2007 7:00 AM
The point for me is that radical Islam's march across the planet is made far more of the soft terrorism of forcing small concessions of appeasement than terrorism. Violent attacks on Western targets are the occasional frightening things they do that create a "field of terror" in which we are constantly afraid. But the real goal is the imposition of extreme shari'a worldwide. And this is why I fear Obama's potential presidency. I'm all for walking softly, but not without the countering spectre of a very big stick.
Posted by: Morgaan Sinclair at February 12, 2007 7:04 AM
Mr. Obama has a Muslim heritage, which could have serious consequences for US citizens if he is elected. Anything the Muslims can use to their advantage, regarding him, will be a negative for me and my family.
Posted by: maryrose at February 12, 2007 05:29 AM
What voters need to remember is that Obama as a muslim, belongs to the umma, which is loyal to Islam and muslims. Even though America has given him a good life, future and possibly, presidency, push come to shove, Obama will, by membership to umma, identify himself as a muslim, not an American,.
Remember that!
Posted by: Alert at February 12, 2007 7:07 AM
I mourn the fact that John Howard can’t run for US President himself. "
Posted by: Gramfan at February 12, 2007 07:00 AM
........... what does that say about dubya? Oh.. I forgot.. dubya was in wahhabi pockets even before he cheated the system to become the president.
Posted by: Alert at February 12, 2007 7:14 AM
Astute analysis Robert. We'll all be watching him very closely.
Posted by: Cornelius at February 12, 2007 7:16 AM
Everyone knows the famous Jesuit quote - "Give me a child before he's 12 years old and I'll mold him for life" You never forget the religion that gets drilled into your head at a young impressionable age. Thus Obama has plenty of Muslim memories. With all it's prostrating and prayer Islam knows exactly how to inculcate this "faith" into young skulls. Old ones too.
I'm not anti religious. Just anti Islam. Most other religious "brainwashing" of the young is for more positive set of moral and spiritual principles
Posted by: dennisw at February 12, 2007 7:22 AM
Obama will tell the masses what they want to hear, and the masses will follow like lambs to the slaughter. Americans would do well to head the warnings about the people seeking the office of the Presidency of the United States of America. But alas most will still say President Bush stole the last two elections.
Posted by: AMartinez at February 12, 2007 7:23 AM
Childhood is the most vital element in a person’s development. The Jesuits used to say, ‘Give me a child for the first seven years, and you may do what you like with him afterwards.’1 They knew that by the time a child had reached seven, his character would largely be set and, even at that tender age, you could ‘see’ the man. Thus they invested a lot of time and effort into ensuring that Roman Catholic teaching was instilled into the young mind.
(from the internet)
at February 12, 2007 7:24 AM
sorry should have been, heed the warnings
Posted by: AMartinez at February 12, 2007 7:25 AM
"I mourn the fact that John Howard can’t run for US President himself. "
Posted by: Gramfan at February 12, 2007 07:00 AM
........... what does that say about dubya? Oh.. I forgot.. dubya was in wahhabi pockets even before he cheated the system to become the president.
Posted by: Alert "
I was quoting Melanie Phillips!
I want John Howard to stay right here as PM as long as he can.
at February 12, 2007 7:28 AM
Barack Obama is the leftist media darling next to madame clinton. l can see either runing for President and the alternate as VP. that way they have it all covered for everyone but the average white male Christian need not apply. but then the first lady might just be Bubba.
I just hope those powers hold a torch to Barack Obama's toes, and let everyone know that he is so far left, he would fit better in Sweden than leading the US!
at February 12, 2007 7:58 AM
I think it's important to define the term "understand" in this context. It really should just mean to see accurately, but in this case I think it will be confused with the meaning of being sympathetic.
For example, Robert and Hugh understand Islam in the first sense and dislike it, but I'm afraid Obama will not see it accurately, only sympathetically.
at February 12, 2007 8:04 AM
This topic leads to many good Immigration Questionnaire questions.
For prospective immigrants:
1. At what age should a man be held accountable for
apostasy from Islam?
2. Same question but for a woman.
3. What is the penalty for apostasy under Islam?
4. Is Obama an apostate from Islam?
5. By electing Obama did the US show it did not submit to Islam?
6. Is this a problem?
7. If the US elects an apostate from Islam as president, is that a declaration of war on Islam?
8. If he is a Christian?
9. If he is a Jew?
Posted by: Old Atlantic at February 12, 2007 8:10 AM
Barack Obama was never a Muslim. His father was born as a Muslim but as an adult became an atheist (http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal_keynote_address/index.html). His mother's second husband, Lolo Soetoro, was a non-practising Muslim, but Barack Obama was raised by his mother who was a freethinker from a Baptist/Methodist Christian family. Barack Obama attended a Muslim school for 2 years in Indonesia, but he never attended a madrassa and was never raised as a Muslim
The stories about Obama being a Muslim are part of a smear campaign organised by his political opponents.
Posted by: Reza at February 12, 2007 8:14 AM
Do the words 'spritual awakening' apply to Isam?
As in; after the American people gave me this mandate and put me in this White HOuse, I felt this spritual awakening and feel the need to practice the only religion that means Peace to all the world......
Background Music;
Rolling Stones
"Sympathy with the devil"
Coming to your TV Jan. 2009
See local stations for times.
Isn't the Church of Christ the one with all the rules against things like smoking? Seems like he takes that commitment seriously.
Posted by: auntbea at February 12, 2007 8:15 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Having read that Barack Obama is a possible presidential candidate really sent a shiver down my slim back.
You see I think that while he may not be a muslim...it is most likely that he is a wuslim.
I actually thought a wuslim as a presidential candidate maybe over a decade away...but inshallah...NO ...the time is now....surprising!
The Amerike really are an interesting lot...expecting democracy to bail you out everytime...in reality this is only true in the short term...the longer term reality is your favourite chesnut...Sharia....and the best thing...YOU will make it happen...truly magnificent.
If it turns out that Barack Obama is a wuslim...and he that he gets in ...(admittely...that's a lot of ifs)...BUT if...then you peoples must expect significant changes to your pathetic ME policy.
1) Israel could be moved to Montana after all.
2) Most of the Oil required by the Amerike will be got from the ME.
3) Rather than attacking soverign tribal states in the ME...the Amerike will protect them... apologise loads for their past mistakes and allow muslim immigration by the bucket load into the Amerike (not Montana though....well it's a fair cop).
4) I can see hugh opportunities for the Islamic business community to open Islamic businesses in the US. Hell, I might even come myself to expand my furniture business.
5)Half of the banking could be based on Islamic banks, the laws could changed to favour Islamic marriages...( Amerike blonde womens could be in for a bumby ride here)...maan the possibilities are endless.
Peoples.....please please let it happen, LOL this is an experiment that is worth investigating ...truly it would not be a scientific experiment ...but it would be a theocratic one ...a huge one like no other in the history of humankind.
The Oneness of Allah will really show up ...Allah's flat earth policy would take a giant leap forward.
Peoples...know that the infedel is a natrually curious animal...wouldn't yopu like to see how this metamorphsis pans out...YOU WOULD!....well Alhumdulilla...vote Obama in...let the ride begin....and peoples ...Shukria...may Allah SWT bless you all ...peace be upon you.
at February 12, 2007 8:25 AM
From Barack Obama's press statement, Jan 23, 2007:
"All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school. As Obama described it, “Without the money to go to the international school that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools and ran the streets with the children of farmers, servants, tailors, and clerks.” [The Audacity of Hope, p. 274]
"To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa."
Posted by: Reza at February 12, 2007 8:26 AM
A swelling tide of racist emotion is what makes Barack Obama a leading candidate for President. This is the same psychology that renders Islam, the most horrible ideology in world history, above criticism. Moslem or not, Obama's candidacy is a threat to liberty.
6:70-8:12-10:4-14:16-22:19-37:67-40:72-44:46-47:15-55:44-56:42-56:93-78:25-88:5
It will be fascinating to watch the media disassemble Tom Tancredo, our only anti-Jihadi candidate. Will they ignore him, castigate him, or set him up on a scandal?
Whatever the means, our ruling elite absolutely cannot tolerate a politician who would resist Islam. This is our legacy from 9/11.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at February 12, 2007 8:28 AM
Naseem
Take a hike!! No one is interested in your Muslim space cadet bullshit. You are wasting your time trying to spread Islam here. We all know what a fraud your false prophet was and what a fraud his religion is
You waste your time here same as Muslims waste their time five times a day supplicating a wrathful deity. An idol like the ones in photos below
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=tibetan%20wrathful&w=all
Posted by: dennisw at February 12, 2007 8:42 AM
Naseem,
It is a glorious thing that Obama, hopefully a Wuslim in your eyes, will run for the top spot in 2008. The only problem with your projected outcome is that he will not win.
His inexperience is already duly noted in the political circles that matter. At best, he will be offered the VP position by Clinton, who will crush him in the primary, that is of course, if the media hasn't destroyed him first. Everyone has skeletons in their closet, Obama is no different. Clinton's dirty laundry has already been well-aired. Obama's is yet to be revealed.
After a potential 8 years in office by Clinton, with Obama serving as her VP, his only chance of attaining the Pesidency would be a stellar record under Clinton's watch, which is doubtful. If that scenario plays out, I would expect conservativism to return in full vigor.
Posted by: awake at February 12, 2007 8:53 AM
sent a shiver down my slim back.
Just how fat are you, naseem? Do you also write "torrid romance novels"?
Islam is all about sex. Denied, frustrated, denigrated, abusive, perverted. etc, etc. etc.
Now I have to wash my eyes out.
Aunt Bea
Posted by: auntbea at February 12, 2007 9:06 AM
Wunderkind Obama & John Howard:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/02/12/wunderkind-obama-john-howard/
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 12, 2007 9:17 AM
...Obama is already showing signs that he would be an appeaser...The Muslims could invoke "the apostasy death sentence" if Obama began to act like a leader who shows the wisdom and strengths of the writers of our Constution or Bill of Rights...
....A true American, Obama is not....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 12, 2007 06:10 AM
Agreed! Obama is just another dhimmicrat appeaser. Like the rest of his treacherous party, we can expect absolutely no help from him in this fight for our civilization's survival. In this instance, I don't even need to know he is a muslim to oppose him. All I have to do is see the capital "D" after his name. That's enough for me. As for possible fatwas against him by the crazed mullahs, I think not. He is too valuable to them as another leftist useful idiot.
at February 12, 2007 9:32 AM
Obama's mother sure seemed to have a thing for Muslim men. Hooked up with them not once but twice. Not too bright.
Posted by: DebV at February 12, 2007 09:18 AM
Yes. No offense, but that is something about women that I honestly never understood. I have seen some date the biggest losers and wastoids ever and could never understand why. Do they somehow think they can change them?
at February 12, 2007 9:36 AM
This could be the first time I will ever hope a Clinton wins something. Obama has to overcome the "Clinton Machine" so lets pray the "Ice Queen" wins this one. Hard to stomach but better then Obama who the media just loves. Clinton only cares about herself but Obama might do something even worse. In any case lets hope the Republican Party picks somebody who can push a victory in the general election and keep these two twits out of office. (in other words please not McCain and no oil-arabian supporting republicans).
Posted by: greatcometof1577 at February 12, 2007 9:37 AM
it is quite clear that muslims want Obama as the president.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/03FCFDA8-9F6A-48A9-A2B2-86959EC4440B.htm
Posted by: sectionOne at February 12, 2007 9:43 AM
greatcomet... Hillary isn't naive and she's up for the job. Guilanni on the other hand, is a sympathizer, his chief Bernie Kerick was a muslim insider... dangerously close to the WTC. good thing he didn't get the job in DHS. funny how that works.
at February 12, 2007 9:52 AM
Assalamau Awake,
You say "His (Obama)inexperience is already duly noted in the political circles that matter. At best, he will be offered the VP position by Clinton, who will crush him in the primary, that is of course, if the media hasn't destroyed him first".
I am awake...I know that the chances of him gettiing elected this time round are slim...but being a VP is fantastic too. He is young while Hilary is getting on and obese....she could become ill ...letting our man though. Even if Hillary is OK ...if he plays his cards right...he could elected later...he has time on his side.
Look at the case of the muslim congress man Keith what'shisname..."it will never happen" you peoples said, "no one will ever be sworn in via the Koran".....both of these things have happened.
In my view , the Amerike is now weak, a lack of faith in christianity (or other religion) has rightly allowed Islam to flourish.
Obama at any rate has the POTENTIAL to make huge changes...and that is what you should worry about....dismissing Obama and what he represents is folly on your part...on the otherhand muslims see this the will of allah SWT..
Let me say this...If you are an amerike christian... you should invest in more cats,
If you are an Amerike muslim...save your pennies for more mosques...there will be plenty of opportunity to invest,
If you are an athiest ...consider a faith,
For the (majority) rest of you...prepare for Islam.
at February 12, 2007 10:02 AM
Robert writes:
“…the death penalty for apostasy is mainstream Islamic teaching, affirmed by all the madhahib, or schools of jurisprudence…”
Some readers, myself included, would like to see references for the up-to-date texts for each of those official schools of jurisprudence. I'd like to follow up and read the details myself. One of the texts, the Reliance of the Traveller (which is up-to-date and which you cite--Umdat al-Salik) is available online, and parts of the Hidayah are available online (but the Hidayah is an old text, correct?). Are the most recent texts for the madhahibs--or at least most up-to-date official texts for specific rulings--available in English, or just in Arabic?
at February 12, 2007 10:02 AM
Naseem, as another poster so eloquently said, "take a hike!" NO ONE here is interested in what you have to say. In addition, Obama will not be chosen by the Dem's, so don't worry your "slim back" about it! P.S. No one here gives a fig about your "back." Except this: Back Off!
To me, anyone who smells even faintly of Muslim does not get my vote.
Posted by: darcy at February 12, 2007 10:03 AM
Obama is a smooth orator who delivers the platitudes and cliches most favored by brain dead liberal voters. He has demonstrated no leadership qualities but it is still easy to see which way he leans when it comes to defense. His former association with islam seems to be the least of his deficiencies. A perfect candidate for the large minority of American voters.
Posted by: pismopal at February 12, 2007 10:04 AM
OMG! "prepare for Islam," Naseem? You are as deluded as you are brainwashed and just a garden-variety fool. Naseem, YOU "prepare" to be SO WRONG! LOL
Posted by: darcy at February 12, 2007 10:06 AM
Excellent analysis, Robert. I have been astounded by all the positive press Obama has received -- the non-stop references to him as a "rock star," the countless times he's been referred to as a hero of Lincolnesque proportions (yet, thus far, done what, exactly?) And, as Robert's noted, Obama's claim to fame will no doubt be to appease, acquiesce, accommodate, and capitulate to Muslims.
Posted by: J.S. at February 12, 2007 10:08 AM
I think this is more a tempest in a teapot than a real issue. Most public schools in Indonesia are Islamic in a very superficial way. I doubt there would be that much long-lasting influence. For instance, does Obama speak Bahasa?
Obama strikes me as a man who came from a real unstable childhood and then made it big and I suspect he'll adopt whatever religion is to his political advantage. The big problem with Obama (and with Hillary) is that he is a leftist. The last thing we need in the United States is the equivalent to Zapatero in Spain. That's what any of the current crop of Democrats would be. Unfortunately, few of the Republican front-runners are much better. God help us all!
Posted by: Provoslavni at February 12, 2007 10:14 AM
Frankly, I don't care if the man was a Muslim or not. If he professes to be a Christian today, I see no reason not to take him at his word.
The issue that should concern us today is the fact that he belongs to the Congressional Black Caucus, an organization the officially bans Whites from membership, and stated purpose is the advacement of the interests of Black citizens of the United States.
It amazes me that the American media is treating his membership in the Congressional Black Caucus as a non-issue, but wonder if it would be a non-issue if a candidate were a member of a White Citizens Council? In that case, I suspect it would be the one and only issue the moment the candidate left the starting gate.
This is not an issue of his religion, it's an ussue of his character.
Posted by: rational at February 12, 2007 10:17 AM
I found this possibility, which seems quite likely given the statements I've seen from CAIR, ISNA etc. on this matter, quite intriguing.
They can even be honest and simply affirm that it doesn't apply to Obama at all, since he left Islam while still very young.
It is an interesting tactic to, in one breath, deny that there is any penalty for apostacy, and in the next declare that it doesn't apply in this case. Excuse me ... exactly what doesn't apply? This death penalty that doesn't exist?
Obama is a dark horse who's getting some press outside the country. Yesterday the Australian PM said his election would be a victory for terrorism. In Canada the press are just reporting the blow-by-blow. The opinion seems to be that although he is an interesting fellow with a race card to play he hasn't got a chance against Hillary, who has not yet committed on a timeline for pulling out of Iraq.
I think it would be interesting for some Dem in the next race to commit a platform to Daniel Pipe's proposal of pulling back out of the cities, letting the Iraqis deal with the civil unrest, and concentrating on shutting down the traffic of weaponry and jihadists across the border. One would think that Pipes' proposal would strike a chord with liberals, as it represents a movement in the direction of a peacekeeping role while avoiding appearances of cowardice. It would also represent a huge savings in terms of American lives and $$$, which would win a number of GOP voters over. This is quite an opportunity for the left. They could take a common-sense approach that the right has overlooked in their zeal to "stay the course", win back some grassroots support, and actually have some positive contribution to the war on terror.
Posted by: Archimedes2 at February 12, 2007 10:19 AM
Questions for Obama or those who say Bush widened the war arise from considerations below. A counterargument to that thesis, that Bush widened the war, is as follows.
Islam widened the war in the Quran Verse of The Sword. The Verse of the Sword says roughly slay them where you can find them, unless they submit to Islam and pay the Jizyah tax. This started the war in 633 AD and widened it to all the world. John Quincy Adams said so.
Amb Adja delivered the declaration of war by Islam on the United States to Thomas Jefferson and John Adams in 1786. That was as the representative of the Caliph the unitary religious and political head of Islam.
Like the fatwa on Rushdie this can not be rescinded, in fact it comes directly from the Quran. They can only make truces for a limited period of years and only if its at a time when we would otherwise win. Of course, that's the time that Kennedy would pick as well.
These furnish more Immigration Questionnaire questions. They can be asked if what Amb Adja said was the true Islam. They can ask if the United States is at war with Islam. It has to be phrased in the reverse, because that's the way they think. But both forms can be asked, is Islam at war with the United States and the other.
Danish Cartoons should be exhibited. They should be asked if these are appropriate to be published in newspapers.
Rushdie and others in hiding etc also furnish a set of questions.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at February 12, 2007 10:23 AM
My Fellow Jihad Watch Bloggers, please step away from the forest so that you may glimpse the myriad of trees that stand in our way.
Politics is money and that is all there is to it. All Americans are aware of this, and although suspicious, accepting of the order of things.
Now I present to you this question. Who is supporting Mr. Obama with the money? Another question - Is Mr. Obama aware of this support? Another question - where does this lead us at this time of national crisis?
My answers - (1) Saudi Arabia. (2) Yes, but in a subconscious, disassociated way. (3) Internal confusion and bewilderment, and eventually a splitting or fracturing of political unity in this country.
My prayer - God Help America.
at February 12, 2007 10:26 AM
Since many have not read the tenents of the United Church of Christ that Obama avows to, read the following and understand........
Obamma's church tenets........
Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:
Commitment to God
Commitment to the Black Community
Commitment to the Black Family
Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
+++++++++++++++++++
so Obama is commited to Africa is that the Africa controlled by the cult of islam?
The Texican.
God Family America Freedom the only choice at any cost.
at February 12, 2007 10:40 AM
Assalamau Laikum darcy,
You said, "take a hike!" NO ONE here is interested in what you have to say.
My dear darcy, you miss the point...as so many of the Amerike normally do.
It is NOT me that you should be worried about.
In many ways I am kinda on your side ...making you aware of Wuslims and Ahmadi...so that in the future we can have a sort of halfway house between Democracy and Sharia in the Amerike.
You could ignore me...but what about the Sunni and Shia from the Saud and Iran...can you ignore them?...I put it to you that peoples here are very interested in what they have to say.
So don't be fooled into a false sense of security...you need me to remind you of the halfway future that we can all have...remeber you can always convert to Ahmadi instead of Islam......I can keep making you aware of the best possible compromises for the future...I am a friend..please remember that.
Posted by: Naseem at February 12, 2007 10:51 AM
Hey, it's the collective known as Naseem again.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007050347,00.html">Smile ladies, you are on Candid Camera.
at February 12, 2007 10:56 AM
I was going to post that too, Texican.
I can't remember where I read about his contempt for whites, but I guess that just makes him more attractive to the left.
at February 12, 2007 11:03 AM
The book "Dreams From My Father" is the source of the above↑ , but I can't remember what magazine I read an excerpt in.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at February 12, 2007 11:09 AM
Common examples of Naseem's misconceptions and contradictions:
Misconceptions:
"Obama at any rate has the POTENTIAL to make huge changes"
"For the (majority) rest of you...prepare for Islam."
Silly Nassem. As if Obama being elected President could bring about huge changes like the abolition of the US constitution and in implementation of Sharia.
"so that in the future we can have a sort of halfway house between Democracy and Sharia in the Amerike."
Silly Naseem. As if Democracy and Sharia could co-exist. It is as plausible as being partially pregnant.
Contradictions:
"I am kinda on your side"
"I am a friend..please remember that."
Silly, silly Naseem. Reduced to intentional griefing and trolling because no one will take his positions seriously. If you are indicative of the "cunning" Islamic mind, I feel better already about our chances to combat and ultimately defeat the viral spread of Islam.
Thanks again for posting. Your entertainment value is priceless.
Posted by: awake
at February 12, 2007 11:17 AM
Oh, look what I found....
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/a-message-of-hate-from-obamas-pastor-via-youtube
at February 12, 2007 11:18 AM
...remeber you can always convert to Ahmadi instead of Islam......
Posted by: Naseem
so defender,and that professer dude,that was all ga,ga over the number 19 was right,your NOT a muslim.
Posted by: Patriot8 at February 12, 2007 11:21 AM
Google
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,380,000 for Obama hated whites.
at February 12, 2007 11:26 AM
Naseem's comments seem tongue-in-cheek to me. Perhaps people here are being a bit humor-challenged.
Posted by: Yitzchak at February 12, 2007 11:29 AM
He is so PRETTY, cafe au lait poster boy for touchy-feely multi-ethni sensitivity, who's past is a fusion cuisine of colors, religions and cultures etc etc - really adorable - I want to adopt him for just $25 a month (help little Obama fulfill his dream of being President).
He's got the 'hurt boy father issues' look bleeding from his eyes. Oh man, just what we need, Clinton only many times worse. NO EXPERIENCE to speak of. And that middle name Hussein. Are you absolutely utterly sure he isn't some kind of Islamic sleeper mole planted years ago etc. etc.? Really totally sure?
Posted by: poetcomic1
at February 12, 2007 11:29 AM
I think voters are sick of Karl Rovian tactics, Swift Boaters, and 30 second political ads that are very insiduous. Remember the smear against John McCain about his "half black" baby? Talk about low. And what they did to John Kerry was uncalled for too, even though he would not win anyway. We do not know what goes on inside Mr. Obama's head so let's not assume right off the bat that he is a closet Muslim. It'll only make us look like loony wingers. This is what put Democrats into office in 2006. Besides, he's not going to win. Hillary has more power, and more backing (from an ex-President for that matter).
So far, the Republican choices do not look so good though. Oh God help us.
Posted by: wrathofasma at February 12, 2007 11:37 AM
Heh heh
http://www.slate.com/id/2158578/
at February 12, 2007 11:43 AM
"Naseem's comments seem tongue-in-cheek to me. Perhaps people here are being a bit humor-challenged."
Posted by: Yitzchak at February 12, 2007 11:29 AM
Stick around a bit and see for yourself. Naseem does provide some comic relief, whether intentional or not, but his true intentions I do not care to fathom.
As far as humor challenged, please perform a google search of comedy blogs and see if JW/DW is on the list of results.
Posted by: awake at February 12, 2007 11:45 AM
And what they did to John Kerry was uncalled for too, even though he would not win anyway
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040604194804799
He didn't get enough
at February 12, 2007 11:48 AM
AND
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/01/kerry_us_a_pari.html
at February 12, 2007 11:50 AM
Some readers, myself included, would like to see references for the up-to-date texts for each of those official schools of jurisprudence. I'd like to follow up and read the details myself. One of the texts, the Reliance of the Traveller (which is up-to-date and which you cite--Umdat al-Salik) is available online, and parts of the Hidayah are available online (but the Hidayah is an old text, correct?). Are the most recent texts for the madhahibs--or at least most up-to-date official texts for specific rulings--available in English, or just in Arabic? Posted by: Khaybar OasisKhaybar
There is a search engine project that some Muslims at Islam-online put together called the al-Muhaddith. There, you can find most of the Islamic texts (excepting the Sira, for which I so far haven't identified a good URL, the way that exists for the Quran).
It is somewhat tricky to search in that one would have to enter the exact words that appear in the texts, rather than substitutes: in other words, if you enter 'apostasy', you are less likely to find your results, than if you entered 'leaves his religion'. The engine also limits the number of searches per book per day, so that's another thing to keep in mind.
However, if you are looking for textual references for Hanafi, Shafaii, Maliki, Hanbali and Jaafari schools, you might need to google.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at February 12, 2007 12:07 PM
Assalamau Laikum Awake,
You ask " but Naseem's true intentions I do not care to fathom".
You don't have to fathom them ...I'll tell you.
Our founder and spiritual master talked about peace...and the need to spread information.
Information is power....it allows us all to make decisions based on reason. In Ahmadism....the spread of information is called peaceful DAWA.
And I am here to spread the good news of Ahamdi....peaceful muslims...peaceful Islam...alternative Islam...Wuslim Islam.
I am a very peaceful and moderate muslima....I would like to be a role model for young Amerike womens ...in search of discipline, peace and faith.
Ofcourse becoming an Ahmadi can have consequences ...from the sunni/shia....but I think only in Islamic dominated countries.
The West will eventually go Islamic...but here's where I come in....I am offering you an alternative to what has happened around the globe. How else are you going to make the effort to know about Ahmadi.
Go Ahmadi....Go Ahmadi (a famous song).
at February 12, 2007 12:09 PM
Naseem does provide some comic relief, whether intentional or not, but his true intentions I do not care to fathom.
What do you think he meant by "Allah's flat earth policy would take a giant leap forward"?
Posted by: Yitzchak at February 12, 2007 12:11 PM
if he has any muslim blood in him at all we should deport him!!!!!
Posted by: edward at February 12, 2007 12:28 PM
Facts about Obama:
1. Had 2 Muslim fathers
2. His mother seems to have a peculiar attraction to Muslims
I thank him for his charity work, and I thank him for his devotion to the church, but the above simply disqualifies him as a ruler of country who is at war with an arm of Islam.
Posted by: ofcourse at February 12, 2007 1:00 PM
Should be 'leader' not 'ruler'
Posted by: ofcourse at February 12, 2007 1:01 PM
First off, I am very cautious and skeptical of any politician, so don't paint these comments as me being a supporter of Barack Obama.
That said, I think it is only fair, that if you are going to criticize a man, that you look to what he says and does, rather than whatever group you want to catagorize him as.
So with that in mind, here is a link to a speech from Nov 22 2005, where he talks about moving forward in Iraq at that time.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/051122-moving_forward_in_iraq/index.html
Of note, is the following Quote from that speech that I found rather interesting. Aside from the "need to stabilize Iraq" portion of this comment, these words reflect many things I have seen expressed on this site.
"Iraq has absorbed resources that could have gone into critical homeland security measures, or in improved coordination with our global allies and partners. At the outset of this war, I challenged the Administration's assertion that deposing Saddam Hussein was the central measure in our war on terrorism. And although I believe we must stabilize Iraq, I continue to believe that the Administration's tendency to equate the military defeat of the Iraqi insurgency with the defeat of international terrorism is dangerously short-sighted."
Also, for the Texan up there with the long list of things on his churches position, shouldn't it be important to look at other items or beliefs he has.
Participating in a group that seeks betterment of a group he relates to, does not mean they intend to drag down those in other groups to achieve those goals. You can support "Blacks" without being against "Whites". In the end you have to pick and choose your causes, and ultimately doesn't everyone choose those causes that they relate to?
Other points to be made about the UCC include its list of beliefs and faith at its site, where you can find the following.
http://www.ucc.org/faith/presbycat.htm
"Question 13. When you confess the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, are you elevating men over women and endorsing male domination? ..."
"Gal. 3:28 "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
Eph. 5:21 "Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ."
"
Clearly the UCC, despite having several black centered programs, believes in the equality of all, just as Jesus taught.
This should be looked at as an opportunity, a chance to discuss and perhaps influence a man who has forsaken Islam, and perhaps just needs a more full education as to what its impact, and how it influences, is in fact the root cause, of the problems everyone is currently presented with.
I would like to believe that there is a possibility for someone like Robert to help him find those connections.
Perhaps a president that actually understands the real issues, is a possibility.
at February 12, 2007 1:04 PM
"What do you think he meant by "Allah's flat earth policy would take a giant leap forward"?
Posted by: Yitzchak at February 12, 2007 12:11 PM
Yitzchak,
To be honest, I do not know exactly what he meant. He could be mocking Islam or he could be expressing that the global domination of Islam, gleefully inevitable in his eyes, would eventually make the now disproven "flat Earth policy", true again through regressive dominance of information. Isn't that what Islam is about at the core anyway?
I'd love to hear your thoughts about it though.
Naseem,
As you say, "Information is power....it allows us all to make decisions based on reason."
I couldn't agree more. That is exactly the purpose of JW/DW. To provide information of the true nature of Islam, like a consumer report on the multitude of reasons why NOT to buy into it.
Your obligatory statement that, "I am a very peaceful and moderate muslima", is just that. Typical pro-Islamic nattering.
If, and that's a big if, you would take your dawa-ridden drivel out into the world and tell it to those who matter, those who shape and apply Islamic law, and fight for the reformation of Islam, we might, once again qualitative at best, might someday find some common ground. Until then, it's business as usual.
It is one thing to post on this site that allows disparaging views, without fear of retribution, than to "deliver your message" to where it is so desperately needed, in your Islamic societies. It is, by stark contrast, the difference between day and night. It is the difference between the dawa view of the silent powerless minority and the jihadist view in Islam, the latter currently applied by those with the power to do so.
Knowing what I know about Islam, specifically retribution in applied Islam, I can certainly understand your hesitancy to speak out, but until that changes....nothing has changed.
Posted by: awake at February 12, 2007 1:29 PM
i think the Aussie PM hit the nail on the head. He's willing to say the things that our American leaders are too afraid to say. I think its a given that the terrorists would like the dems and Obama to win
Posted by: kelisw at February 12, 2007 1:34 PM
hey Naseems is at it again, out of her/his twilight zone! lol... if poor Naseems were a true pious muslim, she/he would ask that Obama be treated as an aposate and become headless! but then this poor Naseems does not know what she/he believes in, as she/he does not practice true islam and is not regarded as a true muslim. naseem you have a feitish for blondes, have you been around the peroxide too long, the fumes have affected your brain cells, no, oh sorry its islam that has affected your brain cells. now go take a hike.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at February 12, 2007 2:00 PM
Yitzchak wrote:
"Naseem's comments seem tongue-in-cheek to me. Perhaps people here are being a bit humor-challenged."
I don't know what's more hilarious, Naseem's wry, mischievous, and rather surreal vignettes, or the under-educated rednecks who get whipped up by them and rise to the bait.
Posted by: schmegel at February 12, 2007 2:07 PM
I thought, once a muslim; always a muslim ? Malcolm X got blown away for leaving this wonderful and peaceful religion in 1965 ?
All this sounds to me like, "Little lion, please go to sleep while we cut your head off."
Posted by: Jeff at February 12, 2007 2:15 PM
edward wrote:
"if he has any muslim blood in him at all we should deport him!!!!! "
This little statement sums up the general attitude expressed on this somewhat disturbing thread (provoked by Robert's partisan mischief-making).
The general attitude in question is - racism. And before you all start squealing, "Islam is not a race!", I can say that the latter is precisely my point. Obama is not a Muslim, but he has "muslim blood", i.e. he is biologically related to muslims. And it is that 'crime' that you (right-wingers) all hate him for - his biological and genetic 'lineage' - i.e. his race.
Posted by: schmegel at February 12, 2007 2:26 PM
Robert you’ve missed ME analysis in your report if Obama is elected. I think we cannot afford to have him as president because he will make the world very dangerous place for everyone to live in. Iran will develop Nuclear weapons right in front of his eyes. Of course the Saudies, the Egyptions, the Moroccans etc. would all want to go Nuclear.
For me that is unbearable scenario. I could not trust American foreign policy under his direction. We can't have him in the office.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at February 12, 2007 2:30 PM
"I don't know what's more hilarious, Naseem's wry, mischievous, and rather surreal vignettes, or the under-educated rednecks who get whipped up by them and rise to the bait."
Posted by: schmegel at February 12, 2007 02:07 PM
Actually, what is hilarious is your valueless contribution and blanket condemnation of us "under-educated" rednecks. If this is the product of your education, I would rather abstain.
Posted by: awake at February 12, 2007 2:30 PM
Infidel Pride,
Thanks. I am familar with that--as I pointed out, Reliance of the Traveller is available on-line (at the site you cited) but to my knowledge none of the other up-to-date texts of the madhahibs are available online, and perhaps not even in English print. (Also I noted that the Hidayah, though parts of it are posted on the net, is old). What we need are the up-to-date texts for every school, otherwise what is the basis, beyond secondary sources, for saying that X ruling is "affirmed by all the madhahib, or schools of jurisprudence"?
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at February 12, 2007 2:31 PM
awake (sic) wrote:
"As far as humor challenged, please perform a google search of comedy blogs and see if JW/DW is on the list of results."
Perform a Google search of Republican Party (or worse!) backslapping blogs and JW/DW isn't there either. What on earth has this thread, or Robert's party-political predilections, got to do with Jihad?
Posted by: schmegel at February 12, 2007 2:44 PM
For the record B H Obama is in the race to show the world that Democommunists are in touch with Muslim and Black feelings as Hillary trounces him to show she is bossette.
Obama is a sideshow new toy.....the horse Hillary will ride to the White House is Bill Richardson, the perfect Democommunist in having a white guy sounding name, talks like a white guy, votes like Stalin and as Joe Biden would love....is a "clean" Hispanic to go with a "clean" Black Muslim/Christian/Atheist.
Obama will probably announce he is gay.....unless Hillary comes out of the closet for that perfect vote scenario.
Seriously, Obama was elevated because he was a dupe to gain press and an easy mark for Hillary to defeat.
at February 12, 2007 3:11 PM
The West will eventually go Islamic...but here's where I come in....I am offering you an alternative to what has happened around the globe.
Naseem,
Care to expound on what "alternative" you offer us and what role you will play in the West going Islamic?
It's an alternative to what?
Bombings and killings at the hands of Muslims?
We've already been there and done that. Surely you remember 9/11, the Cole, the embassy bombings, etc. - going all the way back to the seizure of American diplomats in Tehran.
What ARE you talking about? Just wondering.
Posted by: PMK at February 12, 2007 3:55 PM
schmegel Obama needs to be given attention in light of how he can affect jihad. Many of us here are Jews, blacks, Arabs, Hindus, whites, and south Asians.
No one is going to be enticed by edward's statement to become prejudice based on the ancestry of a person. And that is the core of the problem with our leaders in the West, isn't it? They are so cautious to prevent the divisions that caused minorities to be hated and killed in the past that they are willing to sacrifice country, religion, family, property, stature, achievement, and culture to prevent such divisions. This is the unfortunate case with our leaders today. The position they take is incorrect, because it is senseless. We have matured enough as humans to be able to differentiate between right and wrong, attached to no religion, but supported by the religion of the majority.
I say few of us took edward’s statement literally. Instead, it meant that those tainted by the ideology of our enemy have no place in our society. It was much needed sarcasm, so as to bring full attention to the danger faced by our enemy to citizens. Traitors of the enemy are certainly welcome to live amongst us, but the enemy itself is not for many reasons that I should not have to state.
This brings us to another issue. Given that Obama's family is pretty much Islamic, can we expect him to accommodate or extinguish the enemy? This is a legitimate question, which must be posed and considered by all those who are concerned with their well-being and their families' well-being.
at February 12, 2007 4:03 PM
awake (sic) wrote:
"As far as humor challenged, please perform a google search of comedy blogs and see if JW/DW is on the list of results."
Perform a Google search of Republican Party (or worse!) backslapping blogs and JW/DW isn't there either. What on earth has this thread, or Robert's party-political predilections, got to do with Jihad?
Posted by: schmegel at February 12, 2007 02:44 PM
Schmegal,
I was initially responding to a gentleman calling people here humorless, and that Naseem was speaking with "tongue-in-cheek". I do not agree and neither do most here. We could all be wrong, however.
I responded to Naseem, as I usually do, and got called an "under-educated redneck" by you. If you had read my responses to Naseem, there was a direct correlation to what she was saying and what I believe, in reference to Islam. Her dawa versus my jihadi, et al.
Your harping about the one post by Edward and then attributing the whole thread about Obama as nothing more than racism is ridiculous. Questions about Obama, contrary to what your leftist, PC multiculturalist mind tells you, are permissible and warranted. He is a presidential candidate, isn't he? Just look at the way the AP has modified the wording of their story.
If their was absolutely no correlation between Obama possibly being raised a Muslim early on, do you think Robert Spencer would have started this thread?? He was not the source.
Your disdain of Robert and his "political predilections" is obvious, but also, unfounded. YOU are the one that is using terms like "you(right-wingers)" and "Republican backslapping blogs", so who exactly is attemting to play politics here?
Finish what you started. Don't back down now. If you like Obama, great, voice your opinion, but for God's sake don't unilaterally label everyone who might have a differing opinion of Obama, or question where his loyalties may lie, as a racist.
Enough of that crap already!
As a final note, your claim that, "Obama is not a Muslim, but he has "muslim blood", i.e. he is biologically related to muslims. And it is that 'crime' that you (right-wingers) all hate him for - his biological and genetic 'lineage' - i.e. his race."
Actually, nothing I could add would make any sense of that mess.
Posted by: awake at February 12, 2007 4:43 PM
This candidate will further balkanize the country.
The purpose of balkanization is to create smaller political units that are easier to manipulate/control.
define: balkanization
progressive subdivision of a region into small political units.
media.pearsoncmg.com/intl/ema/uk/0131217666/student/0131217666_glo.html
-Black power candidate (as opposed to a KKK candidate). His church guidelines and black caucus membership cause this to be a racially divisive issue.
-islamic roots, possible saudi money, we need a report on this.
-a weak-kneed appeaser any way you slice it.
Posted by: squire
at February 12, 2007 4:44 PM
Wait a minute. Was Obama born in the U.S.? I thought only persons born here can be presidents.
Posted by: allat at February 12, 2007 8:08 PM
Naseem:
I saved this one's for you:
Every South-Asian Muslim knows that his ancestors were Zoroastrians or Kalash Kafirs, Buddhists or Hindus. In dramatic circumstances, they converted to Islam as the lesser evil in preference to death or impoverishment or third-class citizenship. Out of inertia or brainwashing, you yourselves have so far chosen to remain in Islam and not to undo their shame. Now that you are facing the consequences of being Muslims, viz. the hostility provoked by never-ending Islamic arrogance and aggression, you have a good occasion to reconsider your religious identity. Drop this erroneous belief system that was forced upon you and come home to your ancestral community, where you belong.
Dr Koenraad Elst"
--------
You still can save yourself - your Soul - little Naseem - Paki - you CAN go home again.
at February 12, 2007 8:17 PM
SOS!!!!
OBAMA IS STILL A MUSLIM--and quite possibly a jihadist Muslim.
IF HE wasn't STILL ISLAMIC, HE WOULD BE IN A WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM and living under lock and key like all the other apostates of Islam in the western democracies. The mosques all know it too or Oprah's 'favorite guy' would be receiving daily death threats.
I can spot a phony.
Posted by: pythagoras at February 12, 2007 11:21 PM
allat, he was born in Honolulu.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at February 12, 2007 11:46 PM
I had a real good laugh when Naseem said it sends shivers down her thin back.
She actually believes she is thin LOL:P.
Well on second thoughts she also believes Islam is peaceful so she can surely beleive she is slim also hahehahahaha.
at February 13, 2007 1:59 AM
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