I once saw a TV show called "Hitler's children" about children growing up in Nazi Germany.

One man said that as a boy, he loved being a Nazi because it helped him to transcend himself, and to be part of something much greater than himself. He saw it as something that was profoundly spiritual.

I imagine that this is how muslims see Islam. They just don't know that they are Nazis.

Posted by: Voltaire at February 25, 2007 8:52 AM

I once saw a TV show called "Hitler's children" about children growing up in Nazi Germany.

One man said that as a boy, he loved being a Nazi because it helped him to transcend himself, and to be part of something much greater than himself. He saw it as something that was profoundly spiritual.

I imagine that this is how muslims see Islam. They just don't know that they are Nazis.

Posted by: Voltaire at February 25, 2007 8:52 AM

JehanZeb:

As a man committed to peace who would never slander another religion, who is agahst at the thought that, as you see it, a bigot like Robert Spencer does the work he does, what are your thoughts on the following statement, its origins and its purpose:

"A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim, ‘O Muslim O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”

Please note, this is not a rhetorical question.

Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 9:00 AM

Mr. Spencer,

I think it's unfair of you to judge me and say that I do nothing for my people. If there are instances when Muslim women are mistreated by their husbands, Muslims like myself have been very outspoken and have taken action against this. I was the vice president of the Muslim Student Association at my campus and we had a guest speaker who was a female Muslim convert and she addressed the issue of spousal abuse to a widely non-Muslim audience. It was very educational, especially how one non-Muslim girl wrote an article about it in the school's newspaper. Muslims are consistent in reaching out to the non-Muslim community, even when certain non-Muslims don't reach out to us, WE reach out to them. My experiences with the MSA has been very positive and inspirational.

There is not ONE single Muslim in my family who abused his wife, mother, sister, daughter, or any other female member, and believe me when I say my family is HUGE! In fact, in some situations, women rule over the men, lol. I am still a student, but I still address important issues that concern Muslims AND non-Muslims. There is only a small minority of us who are taking the Qur'an out of context. I find myself having to defend Islam more than educating fellow Muslims. I really wish you knew my family and my Muslim friends, they would really shatter the generalizations you have developed. Islam teaches us True Love, it teaches us (as the Prophet said) that men and women are twin halves of each other. It teaches us the concept of Soul Mates and the Truth of it. God created a mate for everyone, in the same way Eve was created for Adam, peace be upon them. Why would someone abuse his/her twin half? Being a Muslim makes me a better Romantic and Lover, it teaches me to respect women as well as respecting myself. The Love I speak of is one that cannot be expressed in mere words because my experiences go beyond that, but I believe it's important for everyone to understand that MANY Muslim men and women respect and Love each other in a very special way. I don't know any Muslim who abuses their wife or who would even THINK to do such an awful thing. They fall in Love with each other without touching before marriage, without seeing the woman's hair, because they see Beauty WITHIN. External beauty is temporary but inner Beauty is Eternal.

I don't have a problem with you citing the Qur'an, I have a problem with the way you are presenting it. Instead of encouraging dialogue and understanding, it seems that no matter what I say, you will remain unconvinced that Islam is in fact a peaceful and Loving way of life.

I have learned nothing good from criticizing a group of people. How can I when universal Love is such a beautiful thing?

Take good care,

~JehanZeb~

Posted by: ~JehanZeb~ at February 25, 2007 9:12 AM

~JehanZeb~

"The ignorant is his own enemy"

We are no longer ignorant.

Excellent response Robert...as always.

Posted by: jawa at February 25, 2007 9:14 AM

Anyone...

Is there any mention of love in the Quran? Loving one's fellow man, the love of the Creator for his creation?

Anywhere? Anyone?

Posted by: jawa at February 25, 2007 9:16 AM

The comments of your dear admirer, JahanZeb, strike me as disguised threats. It begins with soothing words, but the end is always the same: convert or die. In other words, he's your typical Moslem thug, no different than the rest.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at February 25, 2007 9:22 AM

JehanZeb:

As a man committed to peace who would never slander another religion, who is agahst at the thought that, as you see it, a bigot like Robert Spencer does the work he does, what are your thoughts on the following statement, its origins and its purpose:

"A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim, ‘O Muslim O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”

Please note, this is not a rhetorical question.

Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 9:25 AM

JehanZeb deserves praise for this perfect illustration of why no phony "dialogue" is worthwhile with his belief system. Given his belief in the divine origin of the Qur'an, there simply exists no middle ground between those of us who regard it as a historically created creed of hate. This lack of middle ground forces JehanZeb into a corner; humiliated, he cannot falsify Robert's arguments, nor can he persuasively argue that the Qur'an has divine origins. Hence the pathetic recourse to as hominem attacks and straw man diversion.

JehanZeb, there is one thing on which we can agree, although you are unlikely to admit it: your belief system cannot argue its case based on the truth about its tenets, or its historical record. Any attempt to do so will, like your post, be met with contempt and derision. Are you man enough to admit this, or can you only whine?

I look forward to seeing your answer to the question about the hate filled quote that tokyobk asked above.

Posted by: anti-uffe at February 25, 2007 9:27 AM

JehanZeb-
Do you actually read Robert's writings?

Robert does not "criticize and vilify your beautiful and peaceful way of Life", he points out all that is wrong with the negative (not the positive or peaceful) aspects of islam and their consequences.

If you worry about being picked on, work towards reforming your religion so there is no islamophobia.

Will you denounce islamic terrorist groups and those that apologize for or support? Just curious.

I believe all of the readers of this site know that there are muslims that don't practice these negative and cruel behaviors. I certainly do, as I work with one. You are not paying attention.

Posted by: JBarsimson at February 25, 2007 9:27 AM

Mr. Spencer and AuntBea,

I invite you to my blog to read one of my short stories about two friends, a Muslim and a Christian.

http://mastqalander.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!1A088E1756D8FFEA!1572.entry

Posted by: ~JehanZeb~ at February 25, 2007 9:28 AM

Robert-

JehanZeb has the rights in America that no non-Muslim has in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere in the Arab and Muslim world. We have all learned that Islam is not about the universal practice of the Golden Rule, it is about dominance, deception, and war against the unbeliever ("War is deception").

Robert, your folks had to flee from Turkey in order to find safe haven in America (from his coreligionists") and yet you are accused of bigotry by this phony. It's amazing and offensive. JehanZeb should be demanding full equality of religious rights in Turkey, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Muslim world. He's another phony Muslim pretending to be a victim but is silent on the real victims in the Muslim world (including Darfur).

Posted by: Frank at February 25, 2007 9:29 AM

It is amazing that these creatures never refute the claims by citing parts of the Quran. They always resort to criticism of the one who has pointed out the problems. They cannot debate the merits of the arguement beause they lose every time.

JehanZeb, if I were to debate this issue the way Muslims do I would simply say that you are a liar and sneak away.

Posted by: Pelayo at February 25, 2007 9:31 AM

JehanZeb:

As a man committed to peace who would never slander another religion, who is agahst at the thought that, as you see it, a bigot like Robert Spencer does the work he does, what are your thoughts on the following statement, its origins and its purpose:

"A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim, ‘O Muslim O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”

Please note, this is not a rhetorical question.

Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 9:32 AM

It may be that JehanZeb is a very nice person, but I think that the reason for websites like JW is not so much that the Koran says this or that, or that Muslims as individuals are bad people, but that the instances and threats of violence by Muslims in the world have alarmed many people.
The critical examination of Islamic liturgy is a natural result of trying to find a cause of that menace. The ultimate goal is not to trash people, but to hopefully lead them away from destructive behavior via an honest discussion of possible motivations. Hence the Koranic quotations inciting violence or domination as a possible cause.
If JehanZeb is sincere, then there should be no objection to examining and rejecting those verses.

Posted by: jewdog at February 25, 2007 9:33 AM

The beginning of jihad:

Sirat Rasul Allah (Life of the Prophet of Allah) by Ishaq,

Number 416
“At age 53, Mohammed sent forth his fighters to Waddan in search of the Quraysh. They returned without fighting.”

This first attempt failed. Not to be deterred in spreading “peace”, the search and destroy mission continued and after 7 attempts.

The Quraysh was the tribe (extended family) of Mohammed and many did not wish a fight:

Number 440 “…Some argued not to fight because half the Muslims were from Mecca and kin. … .”

Upon finding the enemy again – prayers for peace and understanding were not made.

number 440
“As Mohammed saw the Quraysh march into the small valley, he said ‘O Allah, here come the Quraysh, in their vanity and pride, contending with you and calling me a liar.
O Allah, give me the help you promised. Destroy them this morning!’”

An alternative to forgiveness and peaceful coexistence is extended to the first enemies of Islam:

number 443
“One of the Quraysh had a hot temper and decided on his own that he would drink from the well in front of the Muslims. Off he went to be met by Islam’s finest and strongest man, Hamza. In one blow Hamza’s sword cut through the man’s leg at the shin. He fell on his back with his leg pointed toward his companions, gushing blood. The man then started to crawl to the well. Hamza killed him by sword before he could reach the well.

Islam drew first blood, and the killing was a bad omen for the Quraysh.”

This “winning” method of spreading “peace and harmony” continued from that day and is responsible for –among other horrors- the murder of

Africans – 120 million; 11 million African slaves were shipped across the Atlantic, 14 million Africans were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. It is estimated that for every 1 slave who survived jihad, capture and transport, 5 died. Therefore for 25 million African slaves who survived, about 120 did not. Muslims ran all the wholesale slave trade in Africa.

Christians – 60 million; 9 million “martyred” by the “religion of peace” and 50 million more by jihad of the “religion of peace. Recently 1 million more African Christians have been murdered in the name of Islam.

Hindus – 80 million; Killed in the total jihad against India. “The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad.”

Buddhists –10 million; “Islamic jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India.”

Jews – All; The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective.

And continues to this day – now on global scale.

The Koran has 153,000 words; Bukhari’s Hadith – 338,000 words; Ishaq’s Sira – 408,000 words. Translation –17 percent is about Allah and 83 percent is about Mohammed.

Posted by: TINBH at February 25, 2007 9:35 AM

JehanZeb-

Has it ever occurred to you that Robert may feel a moral obligation to confront the Muslim mandates to violence and oppression of unbelievers that hurt his relatives? (That has occured to me. Why not to you?) The mandates to violence and oppression of unbelievers is rooted in the Koran and Muslim teachings. You know that. Robert knows that. You are part of that oppression. You are no victim. The victims are non-Muslims-especially where Muslims are in control of anything. That's the plain truth and you know it's true.

Posted by: Frank at February 25, 2007 9:40 AM

One Arabic word to describe the comments of Mr. Zeb: "Al-Taqiyya!"

Mr. Zeb, Muslim females are the WORST-TREATED females in the world and you know it. WE all know it, so stop dishing out the "al-taqiyya," - you're wasting your breath.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 9:44 AM

People, you know Mr. Zeb's comment about his "HUGE" family? Well, this is because ALL Muslim females are not only expected, but obligated, to contribute to the "Umma" or Muslim community worldwide. I.e. Forced pregnancies. Muslim females have NO CHOICE whether or not they want to have children, or how many children! They're just expected and obligated to get pregnant as many times as they can which is why there are SO MANY MUSLIMS! The males dictate this biological oppression, among many other oppressions directed toward Muslim females.

Also, notice how Mr. Zeb mentioned in passing domestic violence against females, BUT NO MENTION of HONOR KILLINGS!

Hey Mr. Zeb - Could you please "honor" us with a comment on honor killings? Oh, and dispense with the "taqiyya," - we here at JW are informed and not vulnerable to your lies.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 9:54 AM

"JehanZeb:

As a man committed to peace who would never slander another religion, who is agahst at the thought that, as you see it, a bigot like Robert Spencer does the work he does, what are your thoughts on the following statement, its origins and its purpose:

"A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim, ‘O Muslim O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”

Please note, this is not a rhetorical question.
Posted by: tokyobk"

Answer the question, JehanZeb!

ANSWER THE QUESTION!

ANSWER THE QUESTION!

Posted by: Abraham_Lincoln at February 25, 2007 9:59 AM

I notice what JehanZeb does is the typical shaming tactic used by many hate groups. They never actually address the charges, but try to shame people into quitting.

Posted by: non-redneck at February 25, 2007 9:59 AM

Right, "non-redneck." Watch Mr. Zeb NEVER address my comment on honor killings! Never address the twisted/perverted uber-patriarchal, uber-misogynist, "honor ethic" code of Muslim society in which males have carte blanche to murder females and NEVER experience any punishment for murder. Or rape. Or ANYTHING harmful to Muslim females. Rather, it's the females who are forced to take on all "dishonor" and frequently wind up dead while the males walk away scot-free from any consequences.

Muslim males have no accountability whatsoever in their "honor ethic" culture. Shame. Shame on you, Muslim males. Shame on you, Mr. Zeb! An "honor ethic" culture can be described with one word: Evil.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 10:06 AM

I have no reason to think that JehanZeb is lying about his family being moderate. There are moderate Muslims out there, even if they are indirectly and unwittingly supporting Jihad. But, JehanZeb is guilty of the all too common fallacy of accusing someone of generalizations and then suddenly citing a small group of people he personally knows as evidence of Islam's peaceful nature, which is a much more weaker generalization because it's based on such a tiny, practically non-existent sampling of the Muslim population.

JehanZeb is a Muslim, but he might as well be an atheist Islam apologist. He has the same logic (or lack of it), the same arguments, the same everything. I've seen his kind a million times before. Even if you point out the flaws in their thinking in excruciating detail, they'll just call you an uneducated Nazi.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at February 25, 2007 10:08 AM

Muslim females are slaves. And the Muslim males LOVE IT that way!

Fortunately there are a few Muslim women who have the guts to speak out against the oppression of women in Islam such as the meritorious Dr. Wafa Sultan and Hirsi Ali. Also, there is a book by a woman named "Souad" (first name only) who survived an honor killing by her uncle who set her on fire. It's called: "Burned Alive: A Survivor of an Honor Killing Speaks Out," by Souad (2003). Read this book, Mr. Zeb? No, I didn't think so.

People, I got this book at Books-A-Million, happening upon it while browsing. So, it can be easily found and I'm sure all JW's would be interested in this book. It really provides you with a personal account of the unspeakable oppression Muslim females live with every day. And die with every day.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 10:16 AM

My read on our moderate friend is that he is basically what he says he is.

He is in pre-9/11 + 5 years mode where it was still possible to guilt basically liberal people (and I consider Robert to be part of a Liberal project as are all people who believe in advancing freedom) into not believing their lying kuffir eyes and ears.

As we all notice, these types, whether they are active agents like CAIR or true believers, as I suspect our young film-maker is, never answer the question and always give lots of entirely universalistic observation about the generic goodness of Islam.

I have no doubt most Muslims believe that Islam is goodness and peace because they experience the universal through its particulars, even though those particulars, back here on planet earth, are loaded with the worst type of aggression towards all in the way of Mohammud`s will to power.

Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 10:20 AM

JehanZeb, it is good to read where you live the productive peaceful lifestyle the Hippie Generation created.

Pointing our all of Roberts hate and related Fobias. It is really quite rich. Considering your proper understanding of Islam, I would like to suggest a course of action for you.

You, and your "BIG FAMILY" could all move back to the Country you all came from. Then you would be in a much better position to enlighten your Co-Religionists as to the "true" meaning of what the Koran actually says.

This way, we Can all sleep better at Night.

Let's look at reality here. Being the Infidels or Kaffers or non-believers, or what ever the catch phrase in Vogue my be. The American People, maybe up to 99.9% of us, didn't give a rip about Islam. Didn't know, didn't want to know, and cared less if they did know. I know, I was one of them.

Now Granted, there was some confusion on my part as a result of all the terrorism going on but, you know, it was all Ecomonic and Jewishly inspired. That was what we were told anyway. Even though it didn't make much sence. Especially in light of American involvment in Arab Countrys. Defending them, helping them...

Then comes 9/11. Lo and behold. Muslims, Understanding the Koran the same way Robert understans it. Just kileded 3000 people on American Soil!

For some reason, the message of "love" in that event was lost on us.

Robert must have fell in that .01% of Americans who were conserned about Islam. However, there seem to be places where up to 99.9% of the population has the same Understanding of the Koran as Robert does.

Now, if your going to Preach. Lets not do so to the Choir. There are far to many places where your words would do a World of good in places like these..

Lets go for the numbers if you know what I mean. The percentage of return for your efforts will be more richly rewarded where the target market is 99.9% than where it is only .01%.

America- where return on Investment is King!

Your not practicing you film making by a work/study program in, say, Iraq. You know, Filming Humvees blowing up and stuff like that?

Just wondering where and what kind of Movies you were hoping for us all to see at some point in the future??

Posted by: flowerknife_us at February 25, 2007 10:21 AM

Excellent response, Robert. I'm sure you know much more about islam than a brainwashed 23 year old.

"al-jahil 'adoww nafsoh
The ignorant is his own enemy"

Ergo, muslims are their own worst enemy.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at February 25, 2007 10:28 AM

Oh my, where to start?

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Don't you feel ashamed of yourself at all for being so negative and prejudice? Is this the type of world you want people to live in? Do you want to keep spreading intolerance and ignorance in the United States? Do you want your children to be just as hateful and ignorant as you?"

This entire letter is a perfect example of how Muslims argue and 'debate.' They deflect from the original argument by pointing fingers and laying down accusations... only what's so interesting is that nearly ALWAYS they (Muslims) are more guilty of the behavior they are in fact accusing the infidel of.

JahanZeb, I would ask you: Aren't YOU ashamed of your Muslim brothers and sisters worldwide, seething with such naked and raw hatred at, well, everybody who's not a Muslim? Is this the type of world you want ppl to live in? Do you want to keep spreading intolerance and ignorance throughout the Muslim world with your schoolbooks that state that Christians are pigs and Jews are monkeys? Do you want your children to be just as hateful and ignorant as the millions of Muslims we see worldwide chanting 'death to America' in weekly rallies held after PRAYERS (of all things)?

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Let me tell you something, I would NEVER IN MY LIFE insult another religion or direct my work at a specific group of people because I CARE about other people's feelings."

Oh yeah? Well the holy book you worship and the god you praise says that I am no better than a farm animal, worthy only of your contempt if allowed to live as a dhimmi or the point of your sword if you wish to convert me. I am a lowly devil, bound for eternal hellfire, damned for life.

Worshipping your Koran shows that you care nothing about other ppl's feelings. Most Especially not dirty infidels.

Quote from JahanZeb:
"The Love I have for my people is greater than yours because my work stems from Truth and flows with compassion and peace, they came from my Heart."

Oh. Is that the same love that millions of Muslims feel worldwide about their fellow Muslims? Those same Muslims who are killing thousands of their innocent Muslim brothers and sisters every single day at all corners of this world? Is that the same 'love for your ppl'? Compassion? Peace? Suicide belts? Beheadings? Honor Killings? The stoning of rape victims? Female genital mutilation? IED's? Chlorine trucks blown up next to a market?

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Because of people like you, I have to worry about my children being picked on just because of their ethnicity and religious background."

That's interesting.
See, because of ppl like YOU, I have to worry about my children being blown up and slaughtered just because there's a 'religion' out there that tells its followers to kill me wherever I might be found - because I'm the WRONG ethnicity and the WRONG religion.

I think I'd rather only having to worry about my kids being 'picked on' than blown to bloody pieces.

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Because of people like you, I can't stand up for my rights without someone complaining and saying Islamophobia is some "myth.""

Because of ppl like you, other young, male Muslims, 'Islamophobia' exists...
It exists because one only needs to take a moment to look around the world on a daily basis to see hundreds of ppl, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, being slaughtered by young, male Muslims. On a daily basis, from some civilized Western country, there are news stories about plots by young, male Muslims to kidnap, behead, bomb, and/or kill innocent people. On a daily basis, we non-Muslims have to hear about yet more concessions and demands you make on us, on our Christian-based societies, to make you happy and comfortable in our world. We see you - young, male Muslims - trying to erase our culture, trying to change our way of life, trying to impose your sharia law on us. And all of this is what causes 'Islamophobia'. If Muslims are interested in eradicating 'Islamophobia' then, as Robert often says, stop killing non-Muslims in the name of your religion, stop lying to us, stop waging wars with non-Muslims worldwide, stop trying to replace our culture with your own. Until then, you bet I will be 'phobic' against Muslims, because I know that their god instructs them to wage war against me and mine.

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Just remember that peace, tolerance, and Love is being taught to you RIGHT NOW by a Muslim"

"Death to America!", "Death to Israel!", "Death to the infidel!", suicide belts, stonings, beheadings, kidnappings and forced conversions, IED's, honor killings, female genital mutilations, polygamy, a holy book that instructs its followers to kill all that are not like them, thousands of followers killing and blowing up innocent ppl worldwide and dying with the name of their god on their lips...

SEE THAT PEACE?!
FEEL THAT TOLERANCE AND LOVE?!

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Quote from JahanZeb:
"There is only a small minority of us who are taking the Qur'an out of context."

There's that 'small minority' thing again.
AND that 'out of context' thing again.

Figure a small minority of 1.5 BILLION ppl is a pretty large sum. And that sum is getting larger every day.

And out of context, you say?
Just how is 'kill them wherever you find them' taken out of context? In what context would that passage disply this 'peace, tolerance, and love' for us dirty infidels that you keep talking about?

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Islam teaches us True Love, it teaches us (as the Prophet said) that men and women are twin halves of each other. ... God created a mate for everyone, in the same way Eve was created for Adam... Why would someone abuse his/her twin half? Being a Muslim makes me a better Romantic and Lover, it teaches me to respect women as well as respecting myself. ... MANY Muslim men and women respect and Love each other in a very special way. I don't know any Muslim who abuses their wife or who would even THINK to do such an awful thing."

Oh, this is rich.
Twin halves? That can hardly be, seeing as the koran I read told me that I am actually only worth half of a man. So twins, well, not quite. Maybe more like triplets.

And according to your prophet, god actually created about 4 Eve's for Adam.
Lucky guy.

Muslim males are good romancers and lovers, you say?
Yeah, I'm sure you make your wife feel loved and respected when you tell her you can't touch her for the entire week she's menstruating. Call her dirty, yeah there's romance for you.

Don't know any Muslims who would abuse their wife huh?
According to many human rights groups and women's groups, Muslim women in Muslim countries suffer the worst oppression, battery, and abuse of all women on the planet. And why should this come as a surprise when the holy book Muslim males worship actually INSTRUCTS them on HOW TO BEAT THEIR WIFE!

JahanZeb, you are living an absolute lie if you believe that Islam is about peace and love.

I'm sure we would love to see some quotes and passages from your koran talking about peace, tolerance and love -- only, the peace and love must be directed towards infidels and non-Muslims; NOT only directed towards other Muslims.

Here on JihadWatch, there are literally thousands of examples and passages sited DIRECTLY and word-for-word from the koran where violence and intolerance is instructed against women and non-believers. It's not as if we are pulling these things out of the ether; we are not making them up. You have come to the wrong place if you think your taqiyya is going to be able to sway the silly infidels here. We have educated ourselves to exactly what your koran and holy books say about us, and we will slowly but surely educate the rest of the world and expose your 'religion' for what it is.

Posted by: JenBee at February 25, 2007 10:36 AM

Yes, a previous poster has good advice for you, Mr. Zeb: GO BACK to the Islamic country you came from since you love Islam so much. And, yes, take your "HUGE" family with you!

Good-bye!!!

P.S. I knew you would never address my comments, hypocrite.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 10:38 AM

JenBee - a great post.

Darcy, proud Islamophobe

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 10:43 AM

JehanZeb writes:

There is only a small minority of us who are taking the Qur'an out of context.

Islam teaches us True Love...

Being a Muslim makes me a better Romantic and Lover, it teaches me to respect women as well as respecting myself.

Please then give the correct context for 4.34 of the Qur'an:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them...

Please explain how Professor Liyakatali Takim, a Muslim professor of religious studies at the University of Denver, took the Qur'an "out of context" when he explained in 1995 on this internet mailing list that "physical correction" against a woman based on 4.34 is indeed justified in some cases: http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/AalimNetWork/msg00015.html

If you are a loving person that would never harm a woman, more power to you. But that does not negate what the core texts of Islam dictate, nor does it help justify why those who follow those core texts and strive to follow the violent aspects Muhammad's "perfect example" shouldn't.

Posted by: kamala at February 25, 2007 10:44 AM

tokyobk-

I think the mind of this guy is systemic in Islam. They are always the victims (in their own mind) and this is part of the rationalization process that permits them to oppress others. They are "victims" in Palestine but one never hears about the victimization of the Jewish people that had to flee to Israel from Muslim countries. (They were lucky they had a Jewish state to flee to in Dar-al-Islam). And let's not forget Darfur. The whole Arab and Muslim world is silent on that. I guess in the Muslim mind all non-believers or Negro Africans have it coming to them-especially from the Arabs ("the best people").

The problem that Muslims are going to face in the future will be severe embarassment as everyone gets it re this "religion". It's not about the universal practice of the Golden Rule. The mandates to violence and oppression of unbelievers are rooted in the Koran and Muslim teaching. Facts are facts. Muslims know that. They just don't want any Kuffir majority knowing that.

If I were born a Muslim I would want to deny the facts too on the real nature of my religion. I would bullshit that it's about the universal practice of the Golden Rule. I would not want folks to know the truth. If one is honest in Islam one is labeled an extremist by everyone. It's dangerous to be an honest Muslim.

But the cat is out of the bag, the horse is out of the barn, and the truth is out about Mohammad. The bullshit is not working anymore.

Posted by: Frank at February 25, 2007 10:45 AM

Frank--

If you notice, that is how people are starting to debate Muslims, online and on TV.

Just keep asking the questions; about Sura 9, about Hadith like that and many more, since the Koran makes it very clear what the relationship is supposed to be between Muslim and Infidel.

It is clear to me that a nine year old armed with logic could defeat the most learned Imam in the world in a simple debate.

I am one of the millions who would have never spent any time criticizing anyones beliefs, no matter how crazy I thought them, a mere six years ago.

Now , I consider it my duty to present Islam as it has been understood and practiced since inception, to Muslims and other kuffir.

Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 10:51 AM

Jehanzeb:

Your method of argument is so typically Muslim. Instead of answering the arguments that Mr. Spencer makes, you attack him personally instead. For your information, this is called argument ad hominem. In order to improve your debating skills, I suggest that you visit the following site:

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/index.html

At the above site, you can learn what the most common flawed thinking processes are and avoid them.

I hope this helps.

Posted by: Mentat at February 25, 2007 10:51 AM

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina41022.htm

"Then again he was not attracted to the real Islam but a camouflaged and sugarcoated version of it called Sufism.

"Many people who are drawn to Islam and fall into its trap are at first attracted to Sufism and its mystical and relatively tolerant teachings.

"The fact is however that Sufism that was created during the eighth and ninth century A.D. was a reaction against the unenlightened, impersonal and draconian nature of Islam. It was then that many Persian thinkers, dismayed with the inhumane nature of Islam, tried to reform it by searching for deeper mystical meanings in apparently asinine assertions made in the Quran.

"The problem with Sufism is that it lacks legitimacy. As William VanDoodewaard says: “For, if the Sufi spiritual quest is to be viewed as legitimate, even within Islam itself, it must be rooted in the Quran and the sunna of Muhammad.” [1]

"Andrew Rippin, in his work Muslims: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices, also states that “Sufis.. in their search for legitimation of their spiritual quest [must show] whether Islam as a religion contained within it a spiritual-ascetic tendency from the very beginning.” [2]

"But the Quran is a manual of terror and the sunna depicts Muhammad as a terrorist. Islam is bereft of any spirituality. Sufism is a borrowed ideology and invented by the catholically ingenious but hopelessly sycophant bootlicking Persians who did not have the temerity and the insight to denounce Islam as an idiotic cult of a crazed man and reject it in its entirety as an stupid cult but instead sheepishly tried to reinterpret this graceless doctrine of ignorance, dress it with rationality and sugarcoat it with alien un-Islamic philosophies taken from all kinds of sources, Zoroastrian, Christian, Jewish, Gnostic, Neo-Platonism, Hinduism and even Buddhist to make it toothsome to their own refined mystical palate.

"What escaped the ken of the benighted Sufi sages is that Islam cannot be reformed and the Quran is a clear book of violence and hate that cannot be reinterpreted differently from its obvious meaning. And that it is better to spill the poisonous drink than try to sweeten it to mask its bitter taste.

"What the Sufis did was a crime of foolishness. They taught a different religion but fearing rejection, they claimed it to be the inner message of Islam. Sufis claim that Sufism is the kernel of Islam while the Sharia is its outer shell. The truth is the opposite. The kernel and core of Islam is the Quran, which is poison of mind and spirit. Sufism is only a gloss that masks it.

"Far less people would have fallen into the trap of Islam had it not been camouflaged with exotic Sufi interpretations. The Sufis could not reform Islam or make it more humane. All they did is to conceal its ugliness and thus make it even more dangerous trap for the unwitting victims."

Posted by: Caroline at February 25, 2007 10:59 AM

JehanZeb is utilizing taqiyya and kitman techniques: misdirection, changing the subject. In this case he resorts to name calling and does not refute Robert's argument by providing passages from the Koran.

In any case, the "dual" Koran, the part written in the Mecca campaign coupled with the part written during the Medina campaign, are often self-negating. This is confusing to the Westerner that is not accustomed to dualism, or the thought process in which two opposing concepts can be true at the same time: everything is permissible when the outcome favors Islam and Muslims.

Thus in the mind of Muslims, the woman forced to marry early and bear as many new Muslims as possible is not being abused, nor is denying an education which could make such a women restive, and arranging a marriage and enforcing sexual purity is not abuse because the individual can not exist outside the organized extended family unit that is the Islamic ummah, thus making "honor" killing necessary and acceptable: everyone must know and respect his or her place in the family hierarchy.

Is this what we want in the West?

What bothers me most about his post is his arrogance and self-righteousness:

No matter what you do, Muslims will always be here. And I know that bothers you. Just remember that peace, tolerance, and Love is being taught to you RIGHT NOW by a Muslim

There is nothing tolerant or peaceful about this man and he exemplifies the danger of the presence of Muslims among non-Muslims: they continue demand more than they should receive as a tiny minority in the United States: 3-6 million out of 300 million.

Remember that Mohammed started with 50 followers and seduced the rest by appealing to their baser insticts that could be best acquired through war: rape and pillage, and enrichment through plunder and the taking over war captives which were then fodder for the slave markets and harems.

The situation is no different today: The ultimate goal is power and all that temporal power brings, which brings us to what one would achieve in Paradise: "72 Virgins" or perhaps grapes, and other creature comforts.

"Muslims will always be with us" because they chip away at resolve, beat everyone down, or immerse the vulnerable in their totalitarianism.

JehanZeb did not true to refute the historical record or the Koranic passages quoted by Spencer: he resorted to deception and name calling as did the "perfect model of behavior," Mohammed, who also could not prop up his "religion" without the use of violence. (Physical, psychological, and spiritual.)

Instead of refuting the historical record, Muslims are attempting to revise history, to erase the memories which are inconvenient, and to disallow discussion of inconvenient passages of the Koran by resorting to the techniques used by this poster: name calling and misdirection.

By-the-way, one can not slander a belief system nor a person that is long dead. What constitutes a lie is the intent of the speaker, not whether or not what say is true or false.

As for negativity and prejudice, well, Islam is the most negative and prejudiced of the mainstream belief systems, putting everyone down and creating an atmosphere of fear and distrust, making it incompatible with the values of the West.

Posted by: Eleanor at February 25, 2007 11:00 AM

Not sure our friend will return and if he does he will not address any issue with a thoughtful repsonse, I am afraid. But lets add some other Muslim sources that a person full of love like him might elucidate the true meanings for us:

Ishaq:326 "Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’"Ishaq:327 "Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’"Ishaq:517 "Khaybar was stormed by the Apostle’s squadron, fully armed, powerful and strong. It brought certain humiliation with Muslim men in its midst. We attacked and they met their doom. Muhammad conquered the Jews in fighting that day as they opened their eyes to our dust."

Ishaq:576 "Allah and His servant overwhelmed every coward. Allah honored us and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all. Allah humiliated them in the worship of Satan. By what our Apostle recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the punishment the infidels received. Killing them was sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle’s squadron advanced into the fray."

Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 11:06 AM

note how the muslim disappeared when faced with hard facts

however someone must be really stupid to be proud of the following event

"If there are instances when Muslim women are mistreated by their husbands, Muslims like myself have been very outspoken and have taken action against this. I was the vice president of the Muslim Student Association at my campus and we had a guest speaker who was a female Muslim convert and she addressed the issue of spousal abuse to a widely non-Muslim audience."

muslims abuse their wives and you explain wife beating to a NON-muslim audience?

"There is only a small minority of us who are taking the Qur'an out of context. "

56.6% of egyptians think it's ok to kill christian copts. Is that a small minority? maths tells me it's MAJORITY.

"Islam teaches us True Love, it teaches us (as the Prophet said) that men and women are twin halves of each other. "

what about the part where your prophet had female slaves for sex?

is that treating women equally?

"Why would someone abuse his/her twin half?"

don't know, ask muslims

"I believe it's important for everyone to understand that MANY Muslim men and women respect and Love each other in a very special way."

tell it to all the counselling centres full of abused muslim women looking for shelter from honor killings

"They fall in Love with each other without touching before marriage, without seeing the woman's hair, because they see Beauty WITHIN."

that's called FORCED marriage and it's done to grant citizenship to fellow muslims abroad

Posted by: StillFedUpAgain at February 25, 2007 11:07 AM

"I have a problem with the way you are presenting it."

.....The Muslims really hate it when their secret agendas are exposed in plan view for all those who care to judge for themselves...Muslims actions across the globe speak much louder that the flowery speech of this poster...

Ban Muslim Immigration now...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 25, 2007 11:13 AM

"I am one of the millions who would have never spent any time criticizing anyones beliefs, no matter how crazy I thought them, a mere six years ago". Posted by: tokyobk at February 25, 2007 10:51 AM

You nailed the truth for a lot of people in your comment.

Robert is right. All (Muslims included) have to confront the truth, though it is embarrassing for Muslims to face the truth re the mandates in the Koran and Muslim teaching re unbelievers. All the other religions teach (in one way or other) the universal practice of the Golden Rule. Not Islam.

Islam has a supremacist attitude to unbelievers who do not treat Muslim beliefs as if they are scientific fact. Islam must dominate, not be equal to any other religion in Saudi Arabia or anyplace else. That's the system. We all have to treat Muslim beliefs (including their doctrines re images of Mohammad, e.g.)as scientific fact. If an unbeliever speaks or acts otherwise than their system, then all the rationalizations are in place (as per Muslim doctorine) to oppress, to lie lie to, to intimidate, or even kill the unbeliever.

Who would want to be a non-Muslim in Dar-al-Islam? Islam is oppressive, especially in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Frank at February 25, 2007 11:15 AM

Tokyobk,

As a man committed to peace who would never slander another religion, who is agahst at the thought that, as you see it, a bigot like Robert Spencer does the work he does, what are your thoughts on the following statement, its origins and its purpose:

"A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will call upon the Muslim, ‘O Muslim O slave of Allah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’”

Please note, this is not a rhetorical question.

You didn't really expect that Jehanzeb character to answer your Question did you?

Is he really saying "We only blow you up,behead you, want to keep you in perpetual slavery, subservient to Islam" because we love and respect you?

Posted by: rookie at February 25, 2007 11:26 AM

Robert, how did it feel being scolded like that? I'm surprised that he didn't issue you a time out. If that was a letter of love, then I would hate to read an angry letter.

I guess Muslims can't help themselves, look at who their prophet was.

Posted by: champ at February 25, 2007 11:28 AM

All of the above is so scary I have shivers down my spine.
JennBee, I couldn't have said it better. Thanks so much.

Posted by: Eurodhimmi at February 25, 2007 11:39 AM

This is simply not the proper venue for a truly meaningful dialogue on interfaith respect and tolerance.

The place to have that discussion would be the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Mekka.

Let me know when you are ready!

Posted by: Joseph of Carpentry at February 25, 2007 11:41 AM

JehanZeb:

When you come to Jihadwatch you should come to address those issues that are most disconserting, and are written into the Quran that give us infidels the greatest of concerns and are clearly being practiced by a large part of the Islamic community throughout the world.

If you fail to address what is considered the perfect words in the Quran whether it is the Mecca version, or the Medina version than you serve no productive in roads into the problems with Islam;

Your letter that defines your personal and possibly noble behavior among friends and family tells us very little and does not reflect the teachings in the Quran that we discuss here in Jihadwatch.

You are young man who is apparently practicing things that we can all appreciate but sadly much of what you have written does not reflect what is truly written in the Quran, and the Ahadiths.

Islamic teachings reflect antisemitism calling Jews apes, and pigs,

They reflect the degradation of women. Mohammed believed women had less intelligence than men saying woman's credibility is due to "the defiency of her intelligence (hadith 1:301)

Mohammed said that the evidence of two woman is equal to the witness of one man (hadith 1:301)

Men are in charge of women and if they rebel, scourge them (Quran Surah 4:34)

The Quran calls for Muslims to not befriend us infidels. Please take the time to discuss how you feel about the writtings in the Quran that most concern us. If you choose to ignore them and not confront them, then you are either deceiving us or yourself.

Come forward and meet the challenge that makes your comments purpose filled!

Posted by: Mackie at February 25, 2007 11:43 AM

Just imagine some plain speaking Muslim telling the truth re Israel:

"Look, it's not about the holocaust or refugee camps or land for peace. All that crap is for PR. The truth is we have to keep the refugee camps going or we are out of business.

"The truth is that Jews are supposed to feel subdued in Dar-al-Islam. All those Jews that fled to Israel from Arab countries, who are now non-Dhimmis, must be returned to their rightful status. In any case, the Koran tells us that Jews are a debased people, and a Jewish State is an insult to Islam. Yeah, yeah, I know the Jews were oppressed and second class citizens in the Gulf states, in Iraq, etc. But they had it coming to them".

"While we're on the subject, Islam is not about the universal practice of the Golden Rule. We only say that crap to Kuffirs when we are in the minority. But once we are the majority, the Kuffirs learn the truth. Islam must dominate. Saudi Arabia is our ideal".

Posted by: Frank at February 25, 2007 11:47 AM

JehanZeb - check this out:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015415.php#comments

Should we be "feeling the love" after reading that?

And you have the damned nerve to lecture us on spreading hate for trying to warn others about what is surely coming if we don't wake up about Islam and continue to permit large scale Muslim immigration into our infidel countries. You're the one who ought to feel ashamed about your own ignorance of Islam's source texts, its actual history and what is happening all around the world today, where infidel populations are shrinking everywhere there are Muslim majorities. Instead you spout off a bunch of meaningless kumbaya platitudes and then pat yourself on the back for your moral superiority. It would be laughable if it weren't so utterly nauseating.

Posted by: Caroline at February 25, 2007 11:52 AM

"There is only a small minority of us who are taking the Qur'an out of context."

...here is this lie...yet again....all the Muslim terrorists continue to quote the Qur'an. and the terrorists are large in number and spread across the globe...too many to be called "only a small minority."....yada yada yada....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 25, 2007 11:55 AM

I doubt very much that ~JehanZeb~ will be back to discuss any of the points raised in this thread.

/quote
al-jahil 'adoww nafsoh
The ignorant is his own enemy.
/unquote

Indeed. Look in the mirror when you say that.

Posted by: pr126 at February 25, 2007 12:02 PM

JehanZeb will never convince me that 9/11 was a small matter.

Zeb, you are the one who should be feeling ashamed -- ashamed of YOUR religion.

Posted by: champ at February 25, 2007 12:04 PM

The 23-year-old gentleman who wants to be a film director should first clean out his own house, ( Islam ) before saying anything bad about non-Muslims. Or better yet, check out the news channels to see where the terrorism is coming from, that is from his faith community.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 25, 2007 12:07 PM

Let's see, 24% of Muslims in the UK said that the 7/7 attacks were justified. And that's just the honest Muslims.

A "small minority", indeed.

Poll after poll points out the hostility of muslims towards nonmuslim civilizations, and their support of violence towards said civilizations. See Thailand, for example.

Please don't pee down my neck and tell me it's raining.

Posted by: treehugger at February 25, 2007 12:17 PM

JehanZeb,

I am right now reading a book by Nonie Darwish, the daughter of the famous Egyptian, Mutafa Hafez. She grew up in a country full of polygamy. According to Darwish, the concept of polygamy so taints the friendships and destroys trust in a marriage, that healthy families are impossible to develop in Islam.

If you go back and analyze the lives of the famous terrorists today, you will find a childhood marred by the wreakage of Islamic principles of men's prolifigate sexuality and it's death knell on the children's love of their parents. The man is appeased at all levels to keep his loyalty to his first wife, and if she fails to satisfy him at some point, all the children know and resent the fact that she has failed them as well. Divorce and remarriage are the result. OBL's life followed this same pattern. After being the son of a wealthy and great man, Osama was dealt the blow of stepping down to be a his father's driver's stepson. OBL himself outraged his entire family by marrying a 14 year old young girl after 9-11. His wife of 27 years, who gave him 11 children left and went home to her parents in Syria.

What a terrible way to live. All the family is held hostage by a man's sexual proclivities, given the right and the sanction to marry as many as four wives, making his wife's life hell.

Posted by: Kay at February 25, 2007 12:19 PM

"Film director."

Posted by: Hugh at February 25, 2007 12:29 PM

What is the title of the book, Kay? I'd like to read it.

That's a great last sentence - "All the family is held hostage by a man's sexual proclivities, given the right and the sanction to marry as many as four wives, making his wife's life hell."

How horrible is a female's life under Islam!

No, we're not going to see the Muslim again because we don't fall for his peace and brotherhood "taqiyya" and because we're aware of the "ad Hominem" attacks he (they) use as weapons to distract and disarm us.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 12:32 PM

One other thing I want to comment upon. You said this:

Hate never did the world any good and I personally think you should be ashamed of yourself for calling yourself a Christian while you demonize your Abrahamic brothers/sisters. I think there's still a lot you need to learn about being a human being.

**************

Mr. JehanZeb, everytime that you say "... has no Son, and is not begotten", you are demonizing my religion. I am deeply offended by this statement that is said FIVE times per day in your salat.

**************

I would NEVER IN MY LIFE insult another religion or direct my work at a specific group of people because I CARE about other people's feelings.

****************

You do so FIVE times each and every day. You specifically deny the Sonship of Jesus Christ, deny the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and deny the diety of Jesus Christ.

This is deeply insulting to me and to ALL Christians who love Jesus Christ.

So, if you CARE so much about others' feelings, will you eliminate this phrase from your chants? Yes? If no, then we are NOT "brothers and sisters" in any way shape or form.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD. Isaiah 45, Philippians 2.

Posted by: Kay at February 25, 2007 12:32 PM

Quote:JehanZeb
"The Love I speak of is one that cannot be expressed in mere words"

Then better learn to express it in words. Anything else sounds like a threat.
What about us who don't want to receive this love, who don't need this love, who don't want to hear about his love and who even reject this love??

Posted by: flibustier at February 25, 2007 12:34 PM

Just wondering out of the 99 names of Allah if there is a 'loving God' name to him?

Not so sure if the word 'kill' is used more than the word 'Love' in the Koran as to maybe help balance the more descriptive elements of war VS love compared to its details with negative expressions I did read somewhere 1 in 5 passages have violent descriptions in the Koran.

I find that Western Muslims feed off the positive vibe of the host democracy as their own. Humanistic behaviour not so related in the Koran like 'Love' is more of a social influence than a religious one. 'Love and peace' in it's many forms and tolerance in Islam strikes as odd because Islamic countries by it's laws show little evidence of multi-cultural mixing and freedoms of expression let alone the migrants wanting to mix into democracy without demanding changes.

These things take route in the religion so I wander when man's nature calls for some humanity outside of Islam they use the religion as the inspiration and deny their own nature when it could be the culture of their adopted Christian love influence in Democratic countries that make so called 'love element' to be expressed by the Koran. When it's not so spread evenly in the scriptures as their own behaviour in their moderate stasis.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at February 25, 2007 12:38 PM

Really. I'm not the least bit interested in your Muslim "love" AND I DON'T HAVE TO BE!!!

So, take your Muslim "love" back to your Muslim Lands - Plague, Begone!

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 12:39 PM

~JehanZeb~----.....Asks if we ever visited a Mosque, when we go. we will be ready......

..from the past...

TIPS FOR VISITING A MOSQUE...

"Before visiting a mosque, please google the phrase "taqiyya and tu-quoque" and arm yourself with knowledge. Be prepared to ask -- sweetly, in an Infidel-Wants-to-Know Mode -- about Muhammad's marriage to Aisha when she was nine, about the assassinations of Asma bint Marwan and others, about the massacre of the inoffensive Jewish farmers of the Khaybar oasis, about the decapitation of 600-900 helpless prisoners of the Banu Qurayza, and about so much more. Be sure to mention the Hadith.

Do not let the presentation to those Infidels (hmmm, doesn't that spicy chicken and that pita, and then the honeyed dessert, all waiting for us afterwards, smell good, I can't keep my mind off it, how nice these people are, what good hearts they have to invite us in to share their food and their faith) be allowed to finish without making the most that you possibly can out of that "question time." And bear in mind that you will only be called on once, so you had better have your questions ready -- not really to be answered, but so that they can provoke thought and unease in your fellow Infidels who have come, unlike you, without any mental weapons whatsoever.

Ask about the relevance of what Muhammad did and said for today's Muslims. Ask why he is called in the Qur'an "uswa hasana" and in Islamic tradition "al-insan al-kamil"? If told such things as Muhammad's marriage to Aisha must be "put in the context of their times," don't forget to ask why virtually the first act of Khomeini in Iran was to lower the marriageable age of girls to nine.

Oh, and ask about the concept of the "Dhimmi." Ask what was required of Christians and Jews as non-Muslims under Muslim rule. What did they have to do, in order to remain alive, as "Protected People," rather than dead, as Unprotected People, or to prevent their being forcibly converted -- as opposed to the slow conversion, over time, which was usually the only way open to them to escape the onerous, sometimes unendurable situation of being a dhimmi.

And afterwards, when the talk and question time have come to an end, and when other Infidels come up to you, quietly, to thank you for speaking up and speaking out, and expressing their own inarticulate unease, tell them a few of the books you have read. Tell them about Bat Ye’or, Ibn Warraq, Spencer and Bostom. Tell them of this and other websites (www.faithfreedom.org, www.dhimmitude.org, www.answering-islam.org, for a start). Agree to take their names and phone numbers or emails, and to send them a further list so that they, too, will not merely rely on the nonsense and lies fed to them by the soft-voiced propagandists.

Be sure, that evening, to count how often those propagandists mention something about "the three abrahamic faiths" and the "three monotheisms" that "have so much in common." See how often one of the Muslims present tries to use crocodile-sympathies to deplore the mistreatment of Jews by Christians, as opposed to what he will claim is the "tolerance" of Islam, and do agree with him on one point: that Islam manages to mistreat all non-Muslims.

See if there is any mention of Hindus, or perhaps bring with you to the evening a Hindu colleague of the completely unfoolable kind, so that his mere presence in the audience will unnerve the speaker and others. See if there is mention of the 60-70 million Hindus murdered under Muslim rule, and if not, point out that strange omission sometime during the evening.

Oh, and after that? When you all go to the room with the steaming table of that chicken (or lamb) and pita bread and that delicious baklavish dessert? Go right in, along with the other Infidels, mingling with the handful of Muslims in that mosque who agreed to come out that night and agreed to allow the defilement of their mosque by these Infidels, for it was all in a good cause: defending, shoring up, the Faith, until such time as it becomes strong enough here and in other Infidel lands, so that no more Mosque Outreach, no more phony politeness and sweet reason, will be needed with these Infidels.

Break the silence of the lambs. But not by bleating. By studying in advance just enough about Islam -- enough to make things hot that night in the mosque, and not only for that waiting chicken, that pita, that rice.

Posted by Hugh at August 17, 2006 07:18 AM "

Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 25, 2007 12:42 PM

That is, "Now they call me infidel" by Nonie Darwish.

It confirms everything you suspect about the state of women in Islamic countries.

The state that a woman lives in, is just horrible.

Posted by: Kay at February 25, 2007 12:42 PM

OK who is funding this "film makers" propaganda to give him time to attack Mr. Spencer, pay for his college, pay for his computer and expenses?????

That is the story.....follow the money of this 5th column anarchist....and then send him to Iraq where he can play with his Muslim brothers and sisters.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at February 25, 2007 12:46 PM

REFRASE: capitals = added new elements.

These things take route in the religion so I wander when man's TRUE nature calls for some LOVING humanity outside of Islam they SAY IT'S THE religion TO BE THE inspiration. THIS LOVE CAN ALSO BE FOUND IN NON RELIGIOUS FAMILIY IT DOES NOT NEED TEACHING. BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE deny their own INFLUENCE when it could be ALSO A SOCIAL ELEMENT OUTSIDE ISLAMIC CULTURE THAT FEEDS IN EXTRA DIMENTIONS OF OVERAL LOVE TOWARDS OTHERS THAT ARE NOT FOUND IN THE TEACHINGS. The culture of their adopted Christian influence in Democratic countries make THE so called 'love element' BONUS IN THE Koran FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING IT LOOK ON THE SAME LEVEL. When it's not so spread evenly in the scriptures as their own behaviour in their moderate stasis MAKES THEM DO SO FAR MORE THAN THOSE WHO STUDY ISLAM TO THE CORE.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at February 25, 2007 12:48 PM

"I've been pulled over by police officers so many times while working on my independent films,"

....WERE you filming skyscrapers,bridges, tunnels, airports, railroads,ferrys,dams,power plants,sports stadiums, military installations,shipping facilities,or just the churches or places of religion for Jews?......

Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 25, 2007 12:51 PM

Thanks, Kay. I will definitely get it and look forward to reading it.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2007 12:52 PM

"Because of people like you,"'

...The hate is beginning to show.....This man is Christianaphobic.....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 25, 2007 12:54 PM

Where does this spaced out dufus live? No way does he live in a Muslim country. He's wormed his way into the West.

He should go to Syria or Saudi or Iraq and preach this claptrap. I'm sick of Muslims calling me ignorant. In fact I know a lot more about Islam than they want me to. I know all the evil shit in their Koran. I know they are called upon to emulate a false and evil prophet. I know more than enough.

Posted by: dennisw at February 25, 2007 12:57 PM

"I just want you to know that Muslims all around the world, including the CAIR organization will always be there to stand up and speak out against your immaturity, ignorance, and prejudice."

The above-referenced paragraph disqualifies this ham eater and his opportunity to present a legitimate argument.

I have news for him, the CAIR organization continues slowly but surely to lose credibility in the U.S., so if this rodeo clown is relying on CAIR to help him, where do his loyalties and intelligence truly stand? Probably somewhere within Islamism.....Something the West can certainly do without.

Posted by: DCWatson at February 25, 2007 1:00 PM

REFRASE 2:

The culture of their adopted Christian influence in Democratic countries make THE so called 'love element’s A BONUS to be added IN THE Koran FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING IT LOOK ON THE SAME LEVEL as their surroundings. When it's not so scriptural evident be it tolerance expressed thinly by Islamic law says contrary. Their moderate stasis MAKES THEM behave FAR MORE human THAN THOSE WHO STUDY ISLAM TO THE CORE.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at February 25, 2007 1:02 PM

No matter what you do, Muslims will always be here.
- An aspiring filmmaker

Not so quick.

Muslim expansion strategy has basically boiled down to breeding in large numbers, moving into new areas, being bad neighbors, and displacing the native populations who move to the ‘suburbs’. A solid plan really. It worked then and is working now, especially since it falls right in line with left-leaning democratic governments looking to consolidate power.

But in a lot of ways we are living in an inertia-based bubble. Our permitting and regulation processes have pushed factories to less regulated countries. The 12.5% of the population that pay 88% of taxes (not including capital gains which probably make the number closer to 94%) are losing their political power. It is logical that the electorate will begin to actively target the tax base in years, not decades. There is no shortage of Caribbean countries to welcome high net worth individuals. Hello Anna Nichole. The whole thing is unstable and can fall apart quickly. Which brings us back to Plato and the fact that America is the last stop for most of us.

Among forms of government one is preeminently right and is the only real government, in which the rulers are found to be truly possessed of science…And whether they purge the state for its good by killing or banishing some of the citizens, or make it smaller by sending out colonies somewhere…so long as they act in accordance with science and justice and preserve and benefit it by making it better than it was, so far as is possible, that must at that time and by such characteristics be declared to be the only right form of government.

Posted by: pez at February 25, 2007 1:09 PM

"....WERE you filming skyscrapers,bridges, tunnels, airports, railroads,ferrys,dams,power plants,sports stadiums, military installations,shipping facilities,or just the churches or places of religion for Jews?......"

priceless

Posted by: StillFedUpAgain at February 25, 2007 1:11 PM

JehanZeb: "it hurts and disturbs me that you make a living off of criticizing and vilifying my beautiful and peaceful way of Life."

If that's how you live, good for you. It's too bad your brothers in Islam don't see it the same way. Turn on your TV, watch the news for 5 minutes, see Iraq for example, muslims hate themselves. All we see from Islam is kill kill kill. This is how Muslims conduct themselves all around the world. All this violence is born in Islam. It is not hard to connect the dots.

As usual, with you Muslims, you come out saying how peaceful Islam is and skip over the facts. Muslims never address the verses in the Koran that promote intolerence of everything except Islam and neither did you. You always praise how peaceful Islam is, You credit and glorify organizations like CAIR, a front for terror.

"Hate never did the world any good...". Tell that to your brothers in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Pakistan, Malaysia, Phillipines, and on and on. Your Imams and mosques will not condemn terrorism or violence but continually use our kind laws and freedoms against us to evade the issues and play the victim game. I see no Muslims confronting the extremists, cleaning up hate speech in mosques or ejecting those responsible. I see no muslims addressing those hate clauses in the Koran, at all, instead they always switch the subject as you chose to do.

And again, you accuse people like Spencer and others of being intolerent of the intolerent, you do nothing to help your selves.

99.9% of all terror in the world is conducted by Muslims. You go ahead and preach to us all how peaceful Islam is. We don't buy it.

Sounder

Posted by: sounder at February 25, 2007 1:22 PM

"....WERE you filming skyscrapers,bridges, tunnels, airports, railroads,ferrys,dams,power plants,sports stadiums, military installations,shipping facilities,or just the churches or places of religion for Jews?......"

priceless

Posted by: StillFedUpAgain
------------------------------------------------
I tryed back tracking but could not find where this came from but here is some advice.

I know you have to call authorties before you film public places and also tell the police what you are filming if it involves fictional violence. But even so you are at risk for not saying that you are filming in certain public places if you don't say you are doing so. It's common sense to explain your actions depending if you are talking about large film crews and equiptment. Some places like shopping centres don't even allow photography you need permission.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at February 25, 2007 1:24 PM

Darcy, here is an article that never fails to make my blood boil:

Nushaba Hussein, chair of the Human Rights Action Committee of the Muslim Parliament says recognising polygamy would give legal recourse to women should their husband die intestate or if the relationship fails. She cites the case study below as an example:

Samira's story Samira came from a poor family in Pakistan. A marriage was arranged for her with a much older man in the UK. Shortly after her arrival, her husband died. Ejaz, a rich businessman, whose wife was ill and infertile offered to make her his second wife, and married her in a Muslim ceremony at a London mosque. She moved into the home that Ejaz shared with his first wife. Samira had two children from Ejaz but his first wife became jealous and eventually threw her out with her two children.

Samira's story...
Her compatriots treated her contemptuously and called her a loose woman. In their eyes she was a shamed woman with two failed marriages. No family would want to be associated with her, and certainly no other man would marry her again.

Ejaz stopped paying maintenance for Samira and her children. Within her community Samira was treated as a single woman with two illegitimate children. In western society this generally no longer carries a stigma, but in the Asian community where values are more conservative, life can be made impossible.

Samira has no access to the courts to demand payment for herself as a legal wife, neither is she able to obtain maintenance for the children and rights of inheritance for them.

What the Muslim Parliament says:
According to Nushaba Hussein, Samira's case highlights the vulnerability of women in polygamous marriages and making it legal would give leave them less open to abuse.

'It does happen that Islam's very strict conditions for polygamy are occasionally abused. These men would like to keep subsequent marriages clandestine so that women can't do anything if the they choose to renege on their duties, or leave them,' she adds.

'They are reduced to nothing more than mistresses, which in Islamic society is very shameful. They don't have a right to inheritance, which is a problem when husbands die intestate. I know of cases where the husband has provided a wife and his children with a house but not made a will, and it has been taken away from them once he has died, leaving them homeless'

The Muslim Parliament's call for recognition of polygamous marriages has been met with a mix of criticism ...

http://www.islamfortoday.com/polygamy1.htm

Notice here how the imams who performed the marriage have not done a bloody thing to help this woman. Have their licenses been revoked? Are they still deceiving young women and marrying them to old men? Are all such deceived women thrown upon the state to rescue them from evil lacivious old men and their imams?

This is the call to force the state to rescue women deceived by imams, supposed holy men who abuse their trust!

Disgusting!

Is this what we are to expect for America? Over my dead body!

Posted by: Kay at February 25, 2007 1:25 PM

JehanZeb,

"Hate never did the world any good and I personally think you should be ashamed of yourself for calling yourself a Christian while you demonize your Abrahamic brothers/sisters. "

I am posting to you in disagreement, in response. First, you forgot that Abraham never maried the slave, ( Hagar ), servant of Sarah, his wife. So Ishmael was never born in a mariage. Second, Abraham got Hagar pregnant because Sarah could not have a baby and Abraham sinned in not trusting God to provide a male heir, who would latter be born to Sarah and Abraham, Issac. Third, Sarah, a few years latter had seen Ishmael get abusive towards young Issac and Sarah directive Abraham to throw both Ishmael and his mother, Hagar, out. Fourth, you are not a FULL brother in the spiritual sense until you come to faith in Christ, the Lord. The you would be a FULL spiritual brother. Fifth, Abraham would frankly not be too pleased with the violence that is coming out from the Muslim community world wide against non-Muslims.

Frankly, the SHAME should be expressed by you for the violent acts that your own in the Muslim community commit against non-Muslims.

There is a college basketball game of a favorite college team, men's wise I must get back to. Accept this as a gentle correction.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 25, 2007 1:27 PM

darcy

Spot-on comments.
For a brilliant insight into the female Muslim/Pakistani mind, there's nothing better than Elizabeth George's "Deception on His Mind."
She's the best mystery writer today. Much better than P.D. James, whose characters always bear the mark of their creator.
And, of course, "Deception..." is a page turner.
I wish I had it with me on this snowy day in my mid-Atlantic location.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at February 25, 2007 1:38 PM

What did I say about sneaking away? Mr.JehanZeb does not have the courtesy or intestinal fortitude to reply since 0928.

Posted by: Pelayo at February 25, 2007 1:39 PM

JehanZeb as a aspiring filmmaker you realize that the decpiction of the human form is considered haram in Islam and if you lived in a country where sharia law is implemented fully like Taliban ruled Afganistan you wouldn't be allowed to be a filmmaker.

Posted by: RED at February 25, 2007 1:42 PM

"I don't have a problem with you citing the Qur'an, I have a problem with the way you are presenting it.""

......Muslims hate the truth......

Posted by: exsgtbrown at February 25, 2007 1:48 PM

Hmmmm - aspiring filmmaker - love and tolerance -

That sounds like a perfect venue for actually doing something to challenge the mindset of those who adhere to the violent, manipulative and expansionist elements of Islam.

Real reform ... That would be a fine life's ambition and work.

~JehanZeb~ make us proud!

Posted by: Occupant at February 25, 2007 1:52 PM

JehanZeb:It would be nice if all the muslims think like you,the world would be a very nice place to live,but sadly there are MANY muslims (*), no a small minority as you said, that they interpret koran LITERALLY and because of that the world is in deep troubles.And about how the muslims respect their wives and sisters instead of believe in you I believe in Ayaan Ali Hirsi
who barely survived that respectfully treatment

(*)25% of 1.2 billon please do the math

Posted by: Bernardo at February 25, 2007 2:01 PM

Give us that ol time religion of peace and pass the shrapnel...

http://www.optonline.net/News/Article/Feeds?CID=type%3Dxml%26channel%3D32%26article%3D21262807

Posted by: Frank at February 25, 2007 2:06 PM

JehanZeb,

Could you please share your response, as a muslim, to your fellow muslims who believe and say things such as:

"Leader (in Arabic): With our blood and our lives we will liberate al Aqsa!
[The rest also respond in Arabic:] With our blood and our lives we will liberate al Aqsa!
Israeli Zionists What do you say? The real Holocaust is on its way
Takbeer!
Response: Allahu Akbar!
Takbeer!
Response: Allahu Akbar!

Israeli Zionists, What do you say?
How many women have you raped today?
Israeli Zionists, What do you say?
How many children have you killed today?

Zionists, Zionists You will pay! The Wrath of Allah is on its way!
Israeli Zionists You shall pay! The Wrath of Allah is on its way!
The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real Holocaust is on its way!

We are not your average Muslims, We are the Muslims of Was al Sunnah

We will not accept the United Nations, they are the criminals themselves
They get paid by the Israeli and the US government to do their job.
We don’t recognize United Nations as a body
We only recognize Allah

Israel won’t last long… Indeed, Allah will repeat the Holocaust right on the soil of Israel
Takbeer!
Response: Allahu Akbar!

* * *
No wonder they call you sons of apes and pigs because that’s what you are.

We know many government services are watching us
Such as the FBI…CIA…Mossad, Homeland Security…
We know we are getting on their nerves
And so are you….
So we say the hell with you!
May the FBI burn in Hell
CIA burn in Hell
Mossad burn in Hell
Homeland Security burn in hell!!

Islam will dominate the world
Islam is the only solution
Islam will dominate the world
Islam is the only solution
Takbeer!
La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur Rasool Allah

* * *
Another mushroom cloud, right in the midst of Israel!
Takbeer!! Allahu Akbar!"

from: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005049.htm?print=1

feel the love! eh?

Come to think of it, as occupant points out just above, if you really are an aspiring muslim film-maker, an honest documentary of the "islamic thinkers society" would make a fine project.

Thank you, in advance, for your kind attention to my request.

Posted by: del at February 25, 2007 2:09 PM

Geesh. If this rant is typical of an educated moderate muslim then yes, I agree with Robert's comment that "And you are contributing to that climate of suspicion far more effectively than I ever could".

His email is so full of lies and taqiyya that the last shred of respect I had for the "moderate muslim" just disappeared. I have nothing but pity left for these brainwashed foes of civilization.

Hey JehanZeb, you want to know why there were no muslims in the show Star Trek? Because you and your ilk don't exist in the future.

Posted by: William The Crusader at February 25, 2007 2:15 PM

Quote from JahanZeb:
"Islam teaches us True Love, it teaches us (as the Prophet said) that men and women are twin halves of each other. ... God created a mate for everyone, in the same way Eve was created for Adam... Why would someone abuse his/her twin half? Being a Muslim makes me a better Romantic and Lover, it teaches me to respect women as well as respecting myself. ... MANY Muslim men and women respect and Love each other in a very special way. I don't know any Muslim who abuses their wife or who would even THINK to do such an awful thing."

Oh yeah, every woman wants to be made love to by a Muslim man. Here's a description by Hirsi Ali in her book "Infidel" about a Somali friend who had come to Nairobi to marry one of her cousin's employees:

'Jawahir was tiny but exuberant, all airs and graces; she rolled her eyes and flounced her arms around...She inflected everything with so much drama...she was illiterate--but she was really amusing.

A whole group of us met for long, giggly girls' conversations in the afternoons...The talk centered on Jawahir's impending marriage and the various prospects for other people's marriages. And of course we talked about circumcision. All these girls knew they would be married soon; it was inevitable that we talk about excisions. This was what we had been sewn up for.

The talk was mostly boasting. All the girls said how tightly closed they were; this made them even more pure, doubly virginal. Jawahir was particularly proud of her circumcision. She used to say, "See the palm of your hand? I am like that. Flat. Closed."

One afternoon, gossiping about another girl, Jawahir said, "If you're walking past the toilet when she's in there, you can hear that she isn't a virgin. She doesn't drip. She pees loudly, like a man."

Jawahir's wedding took place at Farah Goure's house...We danced together to a woman drummer...We had a huge meal and in the evening little Jawahir appeared, in a white, Western dress, with her hair piled up in a beehive. She was enjoying the attention: she loved to perform.

For a week after the wedding Ma wouldn't let me go to see Jawahir: she said it wouldn't be proper. So it wasn't until the weekend that I visited her. Jawahir sat on the sofa, gingerly shifting her weight from one side of her bottom to the other. Finally I asked her what it had been like, having sex.

She evaded the question. I was holding one of Halwa's Harlequin paperbacks and she grabbed it and asked, "What is this filthy book you're reading?" I said, "Come on, you know all about it now, tell me what it's like." Jawahir said, "Not until you read this book to me."

It was a mild enough book, about a man, a woman, a doomed romance, two sexy bits. But when the man and woman kissed, he put his hand on the woman's breast, and he then put his mouth to her nipple. Jawahir was horrified. "These Christians are filthy!" she squeaked. "This is forbidden! For Muslims it's not like that at all!"

Now Jawahir really had to tell me what sex was like. She said it was awful. After the wedding ceremony, they went into the bedroom of the flat that Ali had rented for them. Ali turned off the lights. Jawahir lay down on the bed, fully dressed. He groped under her dress, opened her legs, took off her underpants, and tried to push his penis inside her. He didn't cut her with a knife, just with his penis. It took a long time, and hurt. This resembled the stories that Sahra had told me.

Every night it was almost as painful, and always the same: Ali would push inside, move up and down inside her, then ejaculate. That was it. Then he would stand up and take a shower to purify himself: she would get up and shower, also to purify herself, and apply Dettol to the parts that were bleeding. That was Jawahir's sex life.'

Of Hirsi Ali's own wedding night she says:

'I said, "What do you want me to do".

"Take off your clothes, of course."

So I did, awkwardly, woodenly. Nothing was happening as I had dreamed. I made an attempt at foreplay, like I'd read about in books, and Mahmud looked at me quizzically: "Hey, have you done this before?" he asked me.

I mumbled no, and let him get on with it. If I had lied and told Mahmud I had sexual experience, then perhaps we would have had foreplay; but then of course, he would probably have divorced me. Because I admitted to being a virgin, there was no pleasure at all. Jawahir, Sahra, and all the other girls were right, I thought. Good girls are virgins who feel nothing at all.

It wasn't rape. I wanted to have sex with Mahmud--just not this way. He gasped and shoved and sweated with the effort of forcing open my scar. It was horribly painful and took so long. I gritted my teeth and endured the pain until I became numb. Afterward Mahmud fell heavily asleep, and I went and washed again. In every respect my wedding night had turned out exactly as Jawahir had described hers, a year before in Kenya.

Very early the next morning, Mahmud drove me back to Ibado Dhadey's house. He was leaving for Russia that afternoon; I wouldn't see him again."

So much for, "Being a Muslim makes me a better Romantic and Lover." Being a better lover requires one to consider the feelings of the other person, being interested in their pleasure and also their well being. Ramming an incision open, that shouldn't have been there in the first place, qualifies for none of the above.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 25, 2007 2:19 PM

I find it interesting that Jehan finds it necessary to offer post-Qur'anic texts (no ahadith, either), from a mystic author centuries after Muhammad to try and sell us on "love."

There is no 1 John 4:8 ("Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love") in the Qur'an. Nor a 1 Corinthians 13:4-13 ("Love is patient..."), and so on.

And, I think it is quite arguable that the prioritization of that sort of discourse in the respective books of scripture has had far-reaching consequences on the cultures that resulted.

Posted by: MarisolJW at February 25, 2007 2:53 PM

Mr. JehanZeb,

You wrote above:

"I think it's unfair of you to judge me and say that I do nothing for my people."

Mr. Spencer did not suggest you are doing nothing for your people. He said that by not answering his specific assertions and instead focusing on his methods and motives of presentation you are contributing to the cloud of suspicion towards Muslims. You accuse him of judging you, when the entire point of your first letter was to judge him: hateful, negative, prejudiced, intolerant, ignorant, insulting, immature.

You characterize Mr. Spencer in the negative and never give one example. You claim to be instructing him on peace, tolerance, and love. Does one attain any of those by accusing another of negativity without ever offering an instance of the negativity? In the absence of any cited examples, are we to infer that the entirety of Mr. Spencer's efforts are covered by your accusations? In other words, without giving examples of what you accuse Mr. Spencer of, how is he to be "instructed"? It would seem that you are less interested in instructing Mr. Spencer than airing your emotions.

You also wrote:

"I don't have a problem with you citing the Qur'an, I have a problem with the way you are presenting it."

Again, you do not provide one single instance that could serve to help him, and us, better understand your contention with his presentation. It seems that Mr. Spencer's polemics cause you much consternation, crippling your ability to reconcile your anger and benevolent intent.

To be clear, Mr. Spencer does much more than merely cite the Qur'an and other Islamic texts. He engages in contrast and comparisons, reviews historical lineages of Islamic concepts, and uses other devices common to in depth research of any topic. This type of analysis is not unique to Mr. Spencer, most people who wish to have their work honestl