Judging from what I can see on the video, it looks as though I have been to larger gatherings for family picnics. With so little participation I doubt much will come of this relatively insignificant event. Gee whiz!

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at March 9, 2007 6:35 AM

"to Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Baha’is, and all members of non-Muslim faith communities: we stand with you as free and equal citizens;""

....The Muslim world is a long way away from this one...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 9, 2007 6:48 AM

Muslims? I thought Nonie Darwish is a Christian and Ayaan Hirsi a professed atheist.

Posted by: Kepha at March 9, 2007 7:36 AM

Nonie Darwish spoke at my campus. I asked her a question even she refused to engage. It was the following:

"Are you deliberately trying to obfuscate the fact that the preachers and imams you so condemn in your talk use Mohammads example from the Qur'an and the Sunnah to justify what they are preaching?"

and she replied with:

'I dont want to criticize the Quran or Muhammad. We have to accept them as it is as Muslims. I just want to reform the culture of hate that reins in the Middle East. We should not criticize Islam' ...note: paraphrased..open to correction..

So yes shes a Muslim as she sees herself and yeah Hirsi Ali is an atheist though.

Posted by: Tushar Saxena at March 9, 2007 8:54 AM

I find the implied criticism of some of the postings above disturbing. The meeting in St. Petersburg, both those who were there, and those who were not there nonetheless added their names to its document, are the best people, self-selected, out of a potential pool of 1 billion. Carping is distasteful.

One such posting makes fun of the gathering as being ill-attended. What did you expect? The Grand Ballroom at the Mayflower, or the Waldorf-Astoria. For such a gathering, there are all kinds of security considerations. Would it have made sense to throw the event should be thrown open so that those who wish to do such people harm, and might do so, would show up, or at least the task of monitoring them be even more nightmarish?

As it was, there was all kinds of press there. Why, even Al-Jazeera showed up. Whether or not the free, Western press actually reports on what went on will be a test, a test of the moral intelligence, and the other kind, of reporters and editors.

No need to impliedly complain about the modesty of the proceedings. Let's leave those fancy gatherings, with lots of expensive hoo-ha, to the political dinners of our political hacks, to All the Boys on the Make at think-tanks, and all the others making a good living who tell us no home truths, who take no risks, who suffer not a bit for what they do but in fact make out like gangbusters. Its the Clintons who know associate only with millionairs -- or is it billionaires? It's Dinesh D'Souza and assorted Kristols who show up at those dinners and "weekends" where the living is easy, and so little is learned, but everyone feels good about the seriousness of his own endeavor.

Another poster appears to complain at the designation "Muslims" or "secular Muslims" by querying: "Muslims? I thought Nonie Darwish is a Christian and Ayaan Hirsi a professed atheist."

But obviously this movement is not directed at those who have already made the leap out of the mental prison of Islam. It is directed, rather, at those who have not, and attempts several different kinds of appeal. One is for the conditions of mental freedom -- such as the free exercise of conscience, which includes the right to leave a religion -- that will, if created and observed, necessarily lead to a diminishment of the forcible hold Islam now has on its enforced, who took part, those who crafted the document, those who signed it, were all, through no fault of their own, born into Islam. Most have become unbelievers in Islam and not otherwise discussed the current state of their belief or unbelief. One, Nonie Darwish, is a Christian. At least one, Magdi Allam, has described himself as a Muslim. The participants were careful to include reference, in their final document, to all three possibile outcomes among disaffected Muslims -- the freethinkers, the converts to another religion, those who continue to call themselves Muslims but reject both Jihad and the mistreatment of non-Muslims (just like Jack Nicholson in "Five Easy Pieces" un-ordering everything in a chicken sandwich so to get that initial toast he wanted).

Posted by: Hugh at March 9, 2007 8:58 AM

I wish the reformers Godspeed.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 9, 2007 9:43 AM

Interesting that Democracy Now! (the farthest left news show around) has made no mention whatsoever about this conference. And yet, as we are now well aware, it's given enormous amounts of time to the Chris Hedges of America who deem Christians and Christianity the greatest threat to America.

Speaking of Democracy Now!, Amy Goodman appears to have put on some lipstick and make-up for yesterday's show. Why? Because, dummy, it was International Women's Day! Did they have, oh, say, Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the show? Phylis Chesler? Bat Ye'or? Nah, who are they? They had on a few gals to complain about the treatment of women in the American Armed Forces by their fellow male soldiers (I don't mean to dismiss the seriousness of their claims) and, well, Gina Davis, of course.

Posted by: Drum at March 9, 2007 10:40 AM

"One such posting makes fun of the gathering as being ill-attended. What did you expect? The Grand Ballroom at the Mayflower, or the Waldorf-Astoria."

No, but I expected at least the beer hall at the local Elks Club. By the way I was not making fun just an observersion. You have been known to make one or two of these before.

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at March 9, 2007 11:59 AM

As I have advocated in print and to the government, the only way to deal with Islam is to bring in the feminine virtues of compassion, love and caring of a woman's movement.

Then the money for bombs will be invested in schools, hospitals and housing. Women are the key and until Islamic women in their sub roles of authority over Dom males bring about the policy of their homes are more important than bin Laden blowing up New York, the murder will not change.

These women need direction. They will only change Islam when they change where the money is spent.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 9, 2007 12:47 PM

Slow-Mo

I think we Infidels, having borne quite enough nonsense -- ranging from the silly all the way to the outrageously ghoulish, and every sickening hue in between -- from the Muslim world as well as from our own Western world in denial about the problem of Islam, have the right to be chary and churlish about any and all baby steps that should have been taken decades ago. We should be absolutely uncompromising and utterly impatient as we contemplate, in slow-mo against our will, the asymptotic pace of a snail, carrying our civilizational house on its back, while it takes its maddeningly sweet time to imperceptibly exit the burning building of Islam.

Posted by: remote_control at March 9, 2007 2:13 PM

I applaud the courage of these people and all others like them who make a public stand.

It makes a difference.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at March 9, 2007 2:39 PM

One word, taquiyya. Remember, deceiving the infidels is an approved tactic...mohammed himself used and encouraged it. No islam, know peace.

Posted by: BigDaddyKool at March 9, 2007 3:13 PM

Thank you Hugh, you're bang on.

These people no ,matter how few should be applauded for their courage. They have made an enormous leap of faith to put themselves and their lives on the line to try and bring a message to their people. How can any sane person hold anything against anyone for trying.

I sit here on my computer anonymous to the world and some days lash out in anger and say things that I don't always even agree with, but I do it anonymously.

These people have pasted their names and faces around the world and to places that without a doubt have a violent following, and will bring attempts on some of their lives. Let's stand up and cheer these people on and hope that their tiny message turns into a hurricane of change.

Life without hope is not life at all. I will always remain sceptical of the changes these people can affect, but I will never criticize anyone for trying.

Posted by: The fanatic at March 9, 2007 6:42 PM

I'm glad to see the moderates here are trying, with really nothing but their thoughts, but at least they see the wrong with Islam. Now, as for the rest of the idiots in the world; drop the bomb ! My Great, Great, Great Grand Children won't live long enough to see that day of "Co-Existence !"

Posted by: Jeff at March 9, 2007 8:44 PM

I'll never be able to bring myself to support these kinds of efforts, well-intentioned though they may be. We all know what the road to hell is paved with...

It must not only be recognized that it is folly to think that Islam can be reformed, but it must also be understood why this is impossible despite the many reforms and adaptations of Judaism and Christianity.

The basic moral theme of these religions is love, with basic, simple rules (10 Commandments, 'Do unto others', etc...) that govern everyday activity. Full understanding of Judeo-Christian doctrine shows that crimes committed by Jews or Christians (Christians in particular) contradicted the basic theme of the faith and often direct instructions of the prophets themselves, particularly Jesus. For instance, would Jesus have supported the Crusades? The weight of scriptural analysis says no, even though, theoretically, they were wars of self-defense which, in a secular sense, were perfectly justifiable. But Christ said resist not him that is evil, and Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven, etc.

It was the re-focusing of these core tenets that brought Christianity to where it is today, past the inquisitions and the crusades and slavery, etc. It was a return to fundamental Christian values, not a rejection of them.

This is the exact opposite of what must happen to "reform" Islam. It must be understood that religious fundamentalism is not the same as religious extremism. Core tenets of the Islamic faith would have to be rejected, such as the inferiority of women and non-Muslims, and the complete and total rejection of jihad. These tenets are only extreme to our own Western sensibilities, which are greatly influenced by Judeo-Christianity.

The infallibility of the Qur'anic revelation would have to be called into question, and for a book that specifically says it was created by God, for even one verse to be incorrect means they are all incorrect. And if certain aspects of Muhammad's character are to be rejected, which would mean eradicating vast portions of the hadith (many Muslims attempt to do so and are rightly labeled hyporcrits), that would mean he was imperfect, and not only does the Qur'an say he was without error, but if he were a flawed individual, that would mean it is possible that he did indeed speak of his own desire (Q53.3). To expect Muslims to accept these ideas en mass is complete irrational.

In my opinion Islamic reformers are jihad's useful idiots, because they propogate the idea that there is a benign form of Islam that is here for the right Muslim to cultivate into an Islamic renaissance, which thorough study of Islamic texts and a complete and total understanding of naskh and the chronological order of the Qur'an, which Islamic "expert" Dinesh D'Souza has not figured out after 4 years of "study", as well as the proper application of the Qur'an to the sunnah as well as the opinions of reknowned classical Islamic scholars, and finally comparisons of these to Islamic history, which is constant in its slaughter and persecution, show to be about as possible as a rich man getting into Christian heaven.

Islamic "reformers" are equally as dangerous to our civilization as Bin Laden. Probably more. While we act to fight the anti-jihad, these people lull the ignorant masses back to sleep.

Posted by: Ibn_Iblis at March 10, 2007 2:45 AM