EXCELLENT interviews. A must see.

Just like the piece done by Channel 4 in the UK - on the evil being taught in their mosques - I do not expect this to be covered by our butt-kissing lefty-liberal media anytime soon.

No, the likes of Campbell Brown are too busy justifying their anti-war, anti-republican, oh dear we care so much about our soldiers in Iraq, oh look at how bad we are treating our military - on the Bush watch of course, campaign on nearly every segment of their pathetic broadcasts.

Hide the truth about what is happening with Islam from the already disinterested, politically illiterate, overweight, overworked, underpaid, wal-mart shopping, pickup driving American public?

What on earth could be their agenda?????

Posted by: The Goobs at March 9, 2007 7:42 AM

Bread and Circuses.

Posted by: The Goobs at March 9, 2007 7:43 AM

I will have to check the above out at home, but it seems something new is creeping into the CBC's collective pseudo left-lib, multi-culti consciousness. Last week Radio One aired a series of one-hour programs on tolerance, featuring a philosopher (male), a lawyer (female) and a female Korean-Canadian film maker.

The philosopher actually had it nailed about what is being falsely passed off as tolerance and the Korean-Canadian also cast a bright light on the idiotic reverse racism of low expectations that is part of the pseudo-tolerance culture that generally permeates the media and academe.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at March 9, 2007 8:26 AM

Unfortunately, my computer set up cannot open these files. If someone would be kind enough to post them to an online service such as YouTube or Google it may help.

Without viewing the tapes but reading the introduction, I am led to understand that moderate muslims are indeed being persecuted - by devout muslims.

A transcript of these tapes would likely disclose the specific doctrines fueling devout followers to threaten and drown out the moderate muslim voice.

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at March 9, 2007 9:21 AM

Would Mr. Dinesh D'Souza feel this was due to the decadence of the moderate muslims or that of the surrounding Western society?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at March 9, 2007 9:23 AM

Good to see this kind of reporting, but it is unfortunately only the CBC, that lefty soporific dumbing down organ of lost tax dollars being like the stopped clock which is right twice a day.

Morgaan's reflection on the "moderate" muslim in the West missing their opportunity to make a difference also applies in Canada. One heard of these bastards on 9/11 celebrating our disaster, and those who were supposedly sympathetic doing nothing.

And the CBC mostly just carries on with its soft socialism coupled with its pretend upper class attitude of superiority to the so called rash classless and uncouth Americans under the influence of the "neocons" (code word for Jews).

The CBC also puts on a foolish "sitcom" called "Little Mosque On The Prairie" which has few if any muslims in it because it fails to show what islam is - only what the CBC in its own dreamworld, wishes it was. What a disservice to the public ! Likely no practising muslim could be in it because the picture would not be too pretty.

Posted by: dgene at March 9, 2007 9:26 AM

I think they should have emphasized the violent
aspects of the resistance more. The nonviolent
differences of opinion and the boycotts are not
really any different than the disagreements among
Christian groups. The problem comes when you
realize that violence in islam is just below the
surface. The British documentary from a while ago
did a better job of showing the incitement to
violence. This one seems to have blurred the line
in my opinion.

NoMo

Posted by: NoMo at March 9, 2007 9:27 AM

Again, I am warning all Americans -- continue to live in apathy, continue to bury your heads in the sand, continue to strive to find equivalence between the Torah/Gospel and the absolute mythology that is the Quran, and you are going to end up in dire straits in your lifetime because of the actions of Islamic jihadists in YOUR backyard. It's not so far off, as these videos from Canada should warn you.

Who in their right minds believes that those of us out here on the Net that have to deal with this hateful ideology every day of our lives because we choose to not turn away actually enjoy our jobs? The only satisfaction I get is from knowing I'm doing the right thing, but I certainly wish it would all go away. I wish I could click my heels 3x and go home.

That's not going to happen.

Please start paying attention, America, Britain, Canada, Australia, China, India et al. There's still time to fight this insanity, time to push back the barbarians from the gates.

But time WILL run out if people continue down the road of complacency and then -- you will wish you'd been awake. You have no idea how much you'll wish you'd been paying attention and not sheltering yourselves so much from stark reality.

Freedoms can be lost in the blink of an eye if we simply refuse to stand up for what is right. That is exactly what the Islamists are counting on.

Good morning.

Posted by: Foehammer at March 9, 2007 9:37 AM

Thugs. Though my judgement is rather subjective, what's with all the homie-rapper arm gestures by the guy with the beard? Boy, he seems really at peace and not antagonistic at all, no? Right. The guy's an emotional time bomb; passive-aggressive to the hilt. And I just love his little covered woman cowering behind him; must make him feel really manly and godly.

Posted by: Drum at March 9, 2007 10:14 AM

Baby steps by the CBC.

It is encouraging to know that there may actually be some moderate muslims in Canada. I applaud the Muslim Canadian Congress for seeking legal protection from accusations of apostasy, given the dire consequences which can follow such accusations. The MCM and its splinter group, the Canadian Muslim Union, are more moderate than the Canadian Islamic Congress, a pretty radical, fundamentalist outfit.

At least the moderates are beginning to have the courage to speak out against fanatics.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at March 9, 2007 10:24 AM

Foehammer, well said.

If ONLY people would hear. I don't know what folks are like where you live, but where I live, people are politically ignorant and basically disinterested. They thrive on food and their satellite television.

When I would try to have discussions about various important topics - when they were eating lunch or during a break - they would continue to feed their face and look at you as though you were a radical.

There is none so blind than one who refuses to see.

I think there are fewer and fewer true patriots left and more and more poached frogs taking their place. The globalists/one world order bunch are taking full advantage.

Posted by: The Goobs at March 9, 2007 10:36 AM

To the moderate Muslims, to the Muslims who are critical of jihad, to Muslims who genuinely love God: Jump! Or you shall meet your doom like the rest of your brothers and sisters. Islam is for the hardened hearts, the savages, the barbarians, in other words the followers of Shaitaan. If you be a decent man or woman, jump!

Good always defeats evil. Don't be collateral damage.

Posted by: wrathofasma at March 9, 2007 10:45 AM

Canadian mosques are controlled by jihadists who make peaceful Muslims know they are unwelcome.

And well they should be unwelcome.

While one needn't be an activist to be a good Moslem, one must by Allah have the bloodthirst in his throat:

Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
--- God calling for murder in Koran 8:39

These discriminatory bloodthirsty Canuck Imams are right on.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 9, 2007 10:51 AM

ImNoDhimm said
It is encouraging to know that there may actually be some moderate muslims in Canada. I applaud the Muslim Canadian Congress for seeking legal protection from accusations of apostasy, given the dire consequences which can follow such accusations. The MCM and its splinter group, the Canadian Muslim Union, are more moderate than the Canadian Islamic Congress, a pretty radical, fundamentalist outfit.

===

I am not encouraged. Even if there are moderate muslims what difference will it make? The Quran, the Hadith collections, the Sira are radical books they are the root of the problem. If it is straight fight between moderates and radicals, the moderates will lose as the radicals have the Islamic literature and the example of Muhammad on their side. And the moderates know this.
Theologically, the moderates have no ground to stand on.

And I have little confidence that the moderates can reinterpret Islam in the way that they want.
They are likely to lose (even if they are nice human beings).

You noticed how many moderate Islamic clerics there are?

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 9, 2007 10:56 AM

ImNoDhimmi wrote:
"It is encouraging to know that there may actually be some moderate muslims in Canada."

May, being the operative word in this statement. While there may be "moderate" Muslims, although "moderate" is completely undefinable, there certainly is no "moderate" Islam, not historically, and not as applied today. Islam is Islam, and as UK Infidel Lover accurately pointed out, the immutable texts that are the basis of the ideology of Islam, are all that matter.

Islam is the driving force behind Muslims, it is the horse that pulls the cart. We would be remiss to emphasize the thoughts and actions of the individual Muslim over their shared religious belief system, erroneously "putting the cart before the horse", if you will.

Posted by: awake at March 9, 2007 11:30 AM

You noticed how many moderate Islamic clerics there are?
Posted by: UK Infidel Lover

The fact that while there may be moderate muslims amongst the many people who call themselves muslims, there are, on the other hand, hardly any moderate Islamic clerics; should be very instructive to all of us. As Robert Spenser has repeatedly pointed out, the moderate muslims really do not, theologically, have a strong ground to stand on. And while I appreciate the efforts of these moderates to stand up and claim that their religion has been hijacked by jehadists, the fact is that it has always been controlled by jehadists right from Muhhammad's time. The net result is that the jehadists are right, the moderate muslims are simply being hypocrites in trying to pass of Islam for what it really isn't or ever was.

Posted by: Razdan at March 9, 2007 11:39 AM

It was said in the video, (I forgot by who) that MOST of the Muslims just ignored any hate preaching from the Imams. But you know that there will always ALWAYS be the few who do listen to them and then go off to do jihad. Until the Imams themselves become truly moderate there is no hope of reforming Islam. And they can't, because 'secular Islam' is a fantasy, it doesn't exist anywhere in the Koran.

Jesus said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Think how much trouble would have been saved over the past 1400 years if only Mohamed had plagiarized that part of the Bible too!

Posted by: kelisw at March 9, 2007 11:53 AM

http://www.judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0546

Here's both parts fron u-tube.

Posted by: ala-sux at March 9, 2007 11:53 AM

Moderate Muslims may have no chance in reforming Islam, but they are extremely helpful to the effort to wake people up. Western media is not going to use the phrase "Islamophobe" with a self-declared Muslim recieving threats. Thus, there is a unique oppportunity to expose Islam and expose the Koran itself through the voices of Moderates.

They key to success is removing the cloud of PC "thinking." Moderate Muslims are the best way to remove that cloud. Without PC handicap, the West can wipe the floor with Jihad without breaking a sweat.

Posted by: JSobieski at March 9, 2007 12:00 PM

Here is a recent TV show with two of the Muslims from the MCC which are in the Part II
CBC special.

Just listen to the Imam praise Shariah Law and killing Adulters , he , of couse, does the usual
fall back position as the Nazis did by claiming he's merely following orders under Sharia law from Allah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OTfacRDBJo

Posted by: ala-sux at March 9, 2007 12:15 PM

JSobieski said:
Moderate Muslims may have no chance in reforming Islam, but they are extremely helpful to the effort to wake people up. Western media is not going to use the phrase "Islamophobe" with a self-declared Muslim recieving threats. Thus, there is a unique oppportunity to expose Islam and expose the Koran itself through the voices of Moderates.

They key to success is removing the cloud of PC "thinking." Moderate Muslims are the best way to remove that cloud. Without PC handicap, the West can wipe the floor with Jihad without breaking a sweat.

===

Sorry but I dont think Moderate Muslims are that helpful. The existence of "Moderate Muslims" causes the liberal West to falsely beleive in the delusion that Islam can be reformed. An awful lot of timewasting is going on by people in power (the media, politicians) who falsely believe these "Moderate Muslims" can be dialoged with. And I see 10 - 20 years work by liberal people being utterly wasted, trying to accomodate and cater for these "Moderate Muslims". Eventually it will dawn on these liberal people that it wasted time, it could never succeed.

But you know what? 20 years will have been wasted. And in that time, radical Muslims will have got their hooks even deeper in the West.

It would be better for the West if Moderate Muslims did not exist. Their presence would not then cloud the mind of the media, politicians
which would leave them better off to clearly think about the problem of radical Islam.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 9, 2007 12:23 PM

I stopped watching the CBC's "The National" a number of years ago. Every once in a while, they'll do a piece which is relevant. But the bulk of what is shown is, frankly, not worth watching. I tune in to spot the adverts for up-coming programs/propaganda features. This week there's a "news" special being heavily promoted by the CBC to discuss the "lies" made by GWB to go to war with Iraq -- from the clip, I'm assuming it'll be complete with the usual conspiracy theories, the neo-con jooooz are to blame, and let's all hate the demonic United States government under the control of the Zionists, and "isn't Islam wonderful?" -- the usual. Hence, I don't watch the CBC.

Someone above asked about who the Islamist dude in the beard was? -- well, that's Mubin Shaikh -- a fine fellow, eh? as I laugh...Yeah, he's been successful in getting CSIS (that's our so-called "spy network") to get that tax -- what's it called? -- the Jizya (?) -- paid to him to the tune of $250,000 dollars of Canadian taxpayer monies (and Mubin claims there's another 300,000 still owing) -- so that Mubin could play the role of "terrorist jihadi" -- (Mubin, as noted in the CBC "news", supports Sharia law -- he's known for breaking up anti-sharia law meetings held by Muslim women) -- anyway, on behalf of CSIS, and for $250,000 plus, for 10 months Mubin showed a select group of high school students be-heading videos and extremist Islamist tapes, got even some Hindu kids to convert to islam, then took 'em all out to an isolated area to play "paint ball" -- got one of the "terrorists" to claim on tape to want to behead the Prime Minister, etc., etc. Another informant was able to obtain 12 million from CSIS...(that's according to an L.A. Times "news" report -- the L.A. Times also paints Mubin as "a hero." Yeah, all right!! Right up there with Arar!! Our new-found Canadian heroes!)

Contrary to CBC "news" -- I believe the moderate Muslims of Canada form a minority. They are being hounded and harassed by the Islamists and the fundamentalists (who are very vocal, and claim to be the largest group). The largest group claiming to represent Muslims in Canada is the Canadian Islamic Congress, headed up by a professor at Waterloo University in Ontario (he holds a PhD in computer science, dept. of engineering), that's Elmasry. According to a Wiki article, Elmasry is known for "his rants" -- which "frequently support terrorism and Muslim fundamentalism."

Anyway, moderates like Tarek Fatah (he's writing a book about Islamists in Canada, and how these radicals are getting support) need to be supported. Fatah has also been labeled an "apostate." As the CBC "news" feature suggested, religious groups which label others as "apostates" (which carries a death penalty) or "blasphemers" should be prevented from doing this (since these claims are like death threats.) In some way, Canada's laws need to be changed (I don't know if through the extension of anti-hate provisions, or just under veiled "death threats" (?). But, anyway, something should be done to prevent allegations of "apostasy" from being made...

Posted by: J.S. at March 9, 2007 12:30 PM

The moderate Muslims are a distraction.

The moderate Muslims can be a hinderance as I have no doubt that for many of them, they have some sympathy. Survey Polls indicated in many Western countries that some of them would like Sharia law, or even Sharia law applying to them (that was what was asked for in Canada: it was refused. But you know what? They will keep asking). Some indicated sympathy with the 9/11 bombers.

All these moderate Muslims present in Western countries are like a "5th column" (look up expression in Wiki if you need to). Because of their allegiance to Islam, they are unreliable.
I would not trust them in their dealings with radical Muslims.

And the moderate Muslims existence cause our politicans to waste time and energy on them.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 9, 2007 12:36 PM

even if the vast majority of muslims are 'moderate' it doesn't matter, because history has taught us that the violent minority wins against the passive majority.

Posted by: kelisw at March 9, 2007 12:56 PM

The moderate Muslims are a distraction.

The moderate Muslims can be a hinderance

I agree. Even if we concede that moderate Muslims are in and of themselves sincere and good people, the problem is that the general perception out there still among the PNMW (the Pleasantly Napping Majority of Westerners) is that moderate Muslims must be the vast majority of the Muslim population. So every time attention is focused on the moderate Muslim, it tends to reinforce the prevailing politically correct myth about Islam:

Vast Majority are Harmless

Tiny Minority are "Extremists".

This stubbornly persistent and irrational, yet dominant and mainstream myth effectively hamstrings not only our rational analysis of the problem of Islam, but also our ability to contemplate and take rational actions for our collective self-defense.

Posted by: remote_control at March 9, 2007 1:15 PM

I agree Remote...

Another problem which Robert Spencer has identified is that much of the time, we Infidels can't tell who is the claimed "moderate", who is the claimed "extremist." Take the case of Mubin -- the CSIS informant -- just who is he? Is he a "moderate" (I don't think so). It all depends on who you ask -- if you ask T. Fatah, Mubin is a well known extremist in the community, an Islamist, a supporter of Sharia law; if you ask the L.A. times, Mubin is a "hero." And if you ask CSIS, it'd probably be -- who knows? And what was Mubin doing -- was he "protecting Canadians" as he claims? -- or acting out his jihadist fantasies at taxpayers' expense? -- running the equivalent of a mafia-style protection racket? acting as a agent provocateur, getting juveniles to become religious extremists?? or saving Canada from some "terrorist" threat? It's anybody's guess. (have to wait until the trial ends, I guess).

Posted by: J.S. at March 9, 2007 1:29 PM

remote_control and others are right.

This is why I was so amazed at this video coming from CBC who runs their bizarro-world LITTLE MOSQUE ON THE PRAIRIE. I couldn't believe it -- it was like they were counterbalancing the fiction with a does of reality.

I know for a fact there are REAL moderate muslims in Canada. Good people. Hell, I even signed as a witness for a will with one of them, a middle aged professional. His wife and the women don't wear some big black ninja outfit. They don't demand sharia law -- they don't want it. They were part of that gradual low key wave of very desirable muslims Canada USED to get until the past decade and a half or so. They are the tiny number of "extremists". Now Canada's got a pile of these jihadists imported wholesale by the Liberal government over all their years in power.

Just look that rapper-jihad scumbag! You notice how he says absolutely EVERYTHING that is pointed out on places like Jihad Watch as to why there is a big problem that needs to be dealt with immediately (as in yesterday) by governments in the Modern World? He even goes on a big rant about how there is no seperation between politics and religion for Fundamentalist Islam. Of course, this guy finked on his jihadist kin for the plot to blow up parliment. What most might not get is that he did that because he's committed to Saudi-style Soft Jihad -- the gradual take over and overthrow of democracy and freedom with sharia law one step at a time, pushing and pushing until the numbers are big enough for take over. He even refers to Canada's free society as "your free society"! Amazing!

This piece is important in that it at least shines a light on the reality of the situation: Canadian islam has taken a terrible turn for the worse as a result of wildly out of control and foolish immigration policies. All without understanding basic facts about who you are letting in, and considering long-term consequences.

Unless the Canadian government, and the Canadian public who puts them there, doesn't put an end to current muslim immigration policies -- to at least roll them back to the reasonable, sane level of fussy selectiveness of decades past -- Canada is in a lot of trouble. More and more rapper-jihadist thugs like the clown in this story will continue to push to overthow Canadian law, and the regular jihad types will begin to succeed in their bombings. They are not going away. Canada sure as hell does not need more of them.

Posted by: Abraham_Lincoln at March 9, 2007 1:43 PM

A moderate Muslime is one who has run out of bullets.

Posted by: AllahFUBAR at March 9, 2007 1:46 PM

J.S. wrote: "Someone above asked about who the Islamist dude in the beard was? -- well, that's Mubin Shaikh -- a fine fellow, eh? as I laugh...Yeah, he's been successful in getting CSIS (that's our so-called "spy network") to get that tax -- what's it called? -- the Jizya (?) -- paid to him to the tune of $250,000 dollars of Canadian taxpayer monies (and Mubin claims there's another 300,000 still owing)"

I knew he was a creep.

Posted by: Drum at March 9, 2007 1:46 PM

Sure, Drum. The Soft Jihad must march on! That and the dozen jihadist kids all committed to sharia law in Canada like him that he's planning on having -- these things are expensive.

Posted by: Abraham_Lincoln at March 9, 2007 1:52 PM

I guess that my question is, that if this is taking place in Canada, why isn't it happening here? We have the Muslim in Tulsa that dared to speak up and was shunned by his mosque. As I remember, there is quite a commercial conduit between Detroit and Windsor. Is it any wonder that we have concentrations of Muslims in Dearborn? Duh?

I would bet you today somewhere in Dearborn, one of the fundamentalist Imams is holding forth about the amerika and all of its excesses that must be removed. The attendees can't all be deaf!

In film clip it is emphasised by the Muslim that all of the criticism was being done by "outsiders" This is the same complaint that Fatboy(Ahmed Bedier) was making about the secular Islamic conference in Fla.

My guess is Islamophobia will rule for some time. It will hurt some Muslims but it will protect us from the Fundamentalists.

Posted by: credit man at March 9, 2007 1:53 PM

UK Infidel Lover:

Depends on how you define "moderate."

I agree that the type of "moderates" typically referenced by the MSM are absolutely of no help. When the MSM uses the term moderate, the generally mean people who are not personnally committing terrorist acts. When I use the term "moderate" I mean people willing to challenge Islam.

Muslims who are actually willing to engage in public discourse and criticize Islam are INVALUABLE. We need to make them household names, just like dissidents during the cold war.

Its like the Florida conference in St. Petersburg. Robert, Hugh, and others will say/write/argue certain things, be labled Islamophobes, and be filtered out by much or most of the public.

When Muslims criticize Islam, there is no "Islamophic" accusation, the message isn't subjected to a "this is a kook speeking" filter, and more people get the message. More people get the message, we can win this struggle. If everyone talking is labeled Islamophobic, our efforts are significantly stifiled.

I am already receiving positive feedback from a few liberal crusader-type friends who dismiss 99% of what I send them.

The bottom line is that Islam needs to be criticized in the MSM to wake people up. The people best suited to get the ball rolling are Muslims. They can innoculate Robert, Hugh, and others against the label of Islamophobe--a label which shuts down receptiveness in many many people.

Posted by: JSobieski at March 9, 2007 2:06 PM

To refer to Muslims as "moderate" as opposed to "radical" is erroneous. It is only in reference to the adherents of Islam that these terms are used. They are conspicuously absent when referring to Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, et al.

The "moderate" Muslim is akin to the moderate violent street gang member, the one who runs with the crowd, subscribes to their ideology, while not personally partaking in violence because they feel it to be inherently wrong, but continue to run with that same crowd anyway.

Islam, for all intents and purposes, can be viewed as the ideology of the violent street gang, and will remain so, until reformation of the ideology, not it's members, takes place. Who can effectively define the lines between the "moderate" and "radical" Muslim? How can one determine that a "moderate" Muslim will stay "moderate"? What defines a "moderate" Muslim anyway?

The inability to answer these basic questions renders the "moderate" Muslim as enigmatical, and subsequently, quite valueless.

It reminds me of a bad joke I came across.

If a 10 dollar bill was placed somewhere on the Earth's equator, with Santa Claus being due North of it, the Easter Bunny due South of it, a radical Muslim due West of it and a moderate Muslim due East of it, with all four being equidistant from it, who will reach it first?

The answer is obviously, the radical Muslim, for all of the others are imaginary characters.

Posted by: awake at March 9, 2007 2:25 PM

Moderate Unicorns

In medieval times, people created fairy tales and magical creatures to make sense of their world. One of the most endearing is the unicorn, a horse with a single horn that symbolized purity and wholesomeness. In our modern times, people in Europe and the United States consider themselves more sophisticated and rational than people from the Middle Ages, but we still create myths, albeit more subtle ones.

Daily we hear reports of violent acts committed by Islamic terrorists on every inhabited continent. We try to wish it away with the wand of the ‘Moderate Muslim’, telling ourselves the Islamic agenda has been’ hijacked’ by a ‘tiny minority of extremists’ and that soon the huge, silent, moderate majority of Muslims will take charge and change things. However, post 9/11 very few Muslims have condemned terrorist actions. We are still waiting for moderates to stand and deliver, identifying and removing extremist thugs from mosques and their communities. Waiting for this self-correction is our modern version of unicorn hunting.

Moderate Muslims will not be able to wrest control of the agenda for several reasons. Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah’s eternal word, was not moderate. How can any moderate legitimately tell another Muslim not to do what Mohammed himself did? Also, the Qur’an condones violence and coercion to further the Islamic agenda. People whom we call moderates are labeled hypocrites by Allah Himself in the Qur’an. Moderates will always lose the argument because, as ex-Muslim author Ibn Warraq says, “There may be moderates in Islam but Islam itself is not moderate.”

Islamic expert Daniel Pipes and others estimate ten percent of the Islamic world to be militant. In 1933 when the Nazi party took control of Germany it had 2 million members, comprising only three percent of Germany’s sixty-six million citizens. A tiny minority of extremists can control a vast number of moderates, making them irrelevant.

Placing hope in ‘The Moderate Muslim’ is like searching for unicorns in the forest.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at March 9, 2007 3:28 PM

Moderate Muslim = MYTH

In my opinion, a "moderate" Muslim is nothing more than a myth, because you either ARE a Muslim, or you aren't; and their silence against terrorism IS SO DEAFENING, that it only serves to reinforce my position.

Posted by: champ at March 9, 2007 3:29 PM

Awake commented:

To refer to Muslims as "moderate" as opposed to "radical" is erroneous. It is only in reference to the adherents of Islam that these terms are used. They are conspicuously absent when referring to Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, et al.

==

Awake, I essentially agree with you.
The differences between us are miniscule.

I personally know 2 Muslims in my office.
I have talked to both on many occasions.
Both are quite pleasant men.

Q: Do I think they will kill non-Muslims?
A: No, almost certainly not.

Q: Are they moderate?
A: Well that is tricky to answer. I could get them to answer 100 questions and be shocked at some of their replies and be pleased at others.
But due to Islam, I am never quite certain where their sympathies lie. If things got ugly in my country, I could not be certain as to their loyalties. Moreover, with them breeding (God, I make them sound like laboratory rats), I could not be certain as to their childrens loyalties.

I think for many Muslims, they are dormant.
They are like sleeper spies. You just dont know when and what it will take for them to become activated.

So yes, "moderate" is a meaningless word.
Somebody dormant could become active.
Somebody active could become dormant.
Somebody could be dormant their whole life yet their children or grandchildren become active.

What is certain:

They are a growing population in Western countries
In the UK & France their children tend to do badly in education.
In the UK & France their children tend to be more alienated from the mainstream population and are sympathatic to Jihad and Sharia Law being implemented in the country.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 9, 2007 3:41 PM

MOST of the Muslims just ignored any hate preaching from the Imams.

that is most likely the easiest way for muslims to be able to live with themselves, ignor the koran and immans, if you do listen you can become a terrorists. so l guess ear plugs are the best and easiest defense against becoming an islmaist terrorist!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 9, 2007 4:10 PM

Anyone willing to publicly criticize Islam or the behavior of Muslims is useful to our cause. Any Muslim in the West who is being persecuted by Muslims in the West is exactly the kind of PR/propaganda that our side needs to hype and focus on.

In war you have to use the opportunities that you have: spies, defectors, traitors, criminals, etc.

If objective #1 in the plan isn't to make the public more aware of the insidiousness in the Koran, what is?

If step #1 in meeting objective #1 isn't dealing with a PC culture that labels Robert Islamophic so that people won't listen to his message, what is?

We are locked in a war with both hands tied behind our backs because our own culture will not tolerate those of our culture to criticize Islam or to characterize violence as being rooted in the Koran. We need to break through this barrier, and the quicker we do so the better. Muslims criticising Islam is an all to rare, but that does not mean that we should fail to make use of it.

Would you rather Muslims didn't speak out?

Do you want fewer people criticizing Islam and Jihad behavior?

Would you rather the only voices speaking negatively about Islam be non-Muslims?

We need to get from where we are to victory. It looks to be a long road. I think getting the MSM to listen to Muslims and former Muslims criticize Islam and its manifestations is the key.

If you disagree, I would love to hear your strategy for getting more people to come around to a JihadWatch point of view.

From his various radio and TV appearances, it seems to me that Robert is as patient, calm, intelligent, and clear as anybody can be, and he still hasn't managed to break through the insipid Islamophobia label.

We need more voices, and voices that are not as easy to dismiss with stupid PC-originated labels.

Posted by: JSobieski at March 9, 2007 4:16 PM

"And another question: was political correctness inacted in some legal way? Was it voted on?"

The answer would be no. Political Correctness (PC) is an amorphous movement, more like an "atmosphere" or "climate". This is what enables PC to enjoy the degree of mainstream dominance it does: in free democracies, there is a kind of inverse law in sociopolitics -- the more concrete and defined a vehicle of power is, the less broad and deep will be its influence; while the more diffuse and atomized a vehicle of power is, the broader and deeper its influence can be. PC rides the latter type of vehicle, and most of us -- including masses of ordinary folks along with elites -- are, unfortunately, passengers.

Posted by: remote_control at March 9, 2007 4:44 PM

Even Canada is in denial about potential jihad problem. What is it going to take for Canada to wake up? A catastrophic terror attack? It's not if it will happen but when?

Posted by: The Resistance at March 9, 2007 4:57 PM

yeah most Cdn are in denial, and downright ignorant of islam. some think the are not in the line of fire since we sent no soldiers to iraq. but then they are in afganistan much to their dismay, at being targets.
what they dont know is that trudeau's liberal goverment mae this country too far left, and pc, it will take much to wake them up. but l do see the younger generation in my family awake and understand that the koran and islam is evil.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 9, 2007 5:08 PM

JSobieski:
I agree that the type of "moderates" typically referenced by the MSM are absolutely of no help. When the MSM uses the term moderate, the generally mean people who are not personnally committing terrorist acts. When I use the term "moderate" I mean people willing to challenge Islam.

Muslims who are actually willing to engage in public discourse and criticize Islam are INVALUABLE. We need to make them household names, just like dissidents during the cold war.

==

Okay, I see what you are saying.
But in my opinion, these type of Muslim dont exist either. Those that criticise Islam tend to LEAVE the faith: e.g. Hirsi Ali, all the apostates. I am unaware of any Muslim that is actively remaining a Muslim and challenging the theology (*possibly Ali Eteraz).
And frankly, given their founder's behaviour, why would you stay?

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 9, 2007 5:34 PM

JSobieski:
Anyone willing to publicly criticize Islam or the behavior of Muslims is useful to our cause.

== Agreed

JSobieski:
Any Muslim in the West who is being persecuted by Muslims in the West is exactly the kind of PR/propaganda that our side needs to hype and focus on.

== Agreed. But I dont think these exist in the form that you want. For example, you will find Shia who are critical of Sunni and vice-versa but in both cases, 99.9% of the time, neither will think that there is something wrong with Islam, just other Muslims. Those 0.1% that do cotton on to the fact that Islam is the problem, leave Islam.

The Apostates are the most useful. They are useful for convincing liberals in the West that Islam is a problem. And they are also not fooled by persuasive Islamic lies.

JSobieski:
Would you rather Muslims didn't speak out?

== No I would rather they did.
But I dont think you will find any that still call themselves "Muslim". They have left.

JSobieski:
Would you rather the only voices speaking negatively about Islam be non-Muslims?

== No. Anyone convincing will do.

JSobieski:
From his various radio and TV appearances, it seems to me that Robert is as patient, calm, intelligent, and clear as anybody can be, and he still hasn't managed to break through the insipid Islamophobia label.

== Robert is sterling. He is great.
I hope he continues. I also hope that Muslims continue to do the wrong things.

The worse thing for the West is if Muslims sink into a period of dormancy and appear to be "model citizens" and breed. Western liberals will say, "we were right, they are harmless a nd misunderstood". 40 years from now, when the numbers are significant in various Western countries they switch and become active.

JSobieski:
We need more voices, and voices that are not as easy to dismiss with stupid PC-originated labels.

Agreed. It is hard to bust through the stupid Western liberalism everywhere.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 9, 2007 5:49 PM

Oh yeah, there are the good, but as you can see, they're also the poorest; entangled in a government type of religion. There's no way to separate the enemy unless you excommunicate from the rest. This only displays that the majority are formulating a hateful, and controlling government; which will eventually over-throw the laws of Canada.

Form a Patriot Act and you'll make the "bad-man" go away !

Posted by: Jeff at March 9, 2007 7:53 PM

I watched this youtube over at LGF.

The videos that followed it were interesting propoganda FOR islam. Converts speaking on its wonders and beauty, logic and simplicity, and factual science, including the one with a pet dog. So who is THIS guy who claims to be a European scientist ?
..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5K9_639nrc&mode=related&search=

Posted by: Borg at March 9, 2007 9:53 PM

The media are given a snow job by the "fundamentalists" and the media are buying it. You think they, the media, would wise up!!!

Posted by: Monkeywho at March 10, 2007 3:17 AM

Abraham_Lincoln you're right.

Canada, the country where I was born is doomed. Well, I was born in Quebec, but it's part of Canada. Multiculturalism is breaking this country, immigrants who come on here have the guts to believe it's a free for all in Canada, that you can do whatever you want and impose it upon the natives people. I'm gonna have to move in another country, maybe the US, because I don't want to be killed or beheaded in 20 to 30 years.

Posted by: Thereligionofdeath at March 10, 2007 11:48 PM

There are no moderate Muslims.
If a person admits to being a Muslim that very fact means that he/she cannot be a moderate.
Moderate and Muslim are non sequiturs.
QED

Posted by: meekee at March 11, 2007 8:26 PM