I'm all for the isolation of Muslim extremists within the ummah. But notice folks, the methodology. It wasn't theological refutation that was used to overcome the message of the extremists, it was a gag order. Just highlights the coercive and stultifying nature of the Islamic ethos, even among moderates.

Posted by: Cornelius at March 10, 2007 7:48 AM

Surf's up y'all...burka-clad lifeguards down under - would you believe? And I thought these things were only happening in Europe...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/08/news/beach.php?page=2

Posted by: GreekFrenchInfidel at March 10, 2007 7:52 AM

Re: "The nation’s Muslims say they feel under pressure after a number of radical clerics inflamed tensions earlier this year by airing extremist views about women, jihad and Jews".

The problem is not the views but the airing of the views. But the views are based in the Koran. Look it up.

It does not take a scholar to understand that the point of Jihad Watch and Dhimmi watch is that the justifications for those views are what needs to be addressed. JW does not assert that all Muslims are violent or even that all Muslims agree with the views, only that the doctrines that give permission to such views must be addressed or all (including Muslims) are in peril from those who hold those views as literal truth.

The views are are a problem and the denial that those views are firmly based in Muslim doctrine are a problem. Both problems will largely cease when Muslims understand and accept what Jihad Watch is attempting to accomplish by facing this painful reality.

Posted by: Frank at March 10, 2007 8:17 AM

Those last two paragraphs in the quote are classic Reuterspeak. '...urging children to be martyrs for Islam and referring to Jews as pigs' is 'straining tensions'? You don't say; who woulda thunk it? For those people who think there is something--anything at all--defensible in such remarks, isolation and a siege mentality should be the least of their problems.

Posted by: Dane at March 10, 2007 8:26 AM

Cornelius-

The "moderates" slogan is "don't ask, don't tell".

Posted by: Frank at March 10, 2007 8:34 AM

Justifying rape, Jew-hate, mysogony, violence...Com'on, what are you, some kind of cultural bigot? It's about time those clerics were invited to speak at Harvard.
Is it Islam, or is it the Church of Holy Hell?

Posted by: jewdog at March 10, 2007 8:44 AM

Not to worry. These five banned dingbat Imams will be haranguing the faithful in English. They will speak in Arabic & Urdu, when they want to really do the deed.

They just will be more guarded. Won't be shooting off their mouths in public settings, and Lord knows this is difficult because Islam is the favorite subject of these bloated bloviators

Posted by: dennisw at March 10, 2007 8:59 AM

"Five of Australia’s most powerful Islamic clerics have reportedly been banned from speaking to the media in an attempt to stop local imams inflaming anti-Muslim sentiments with controversial comments."

...OF COURSE, They will continue to preach anti-Infidel hate in the Mosques, filling mindless minions with the ideas of rape,pillage,murder,slavery,forced conversion,and Islamic domination.Those mindless minions will go back into the streets and continue the harrassament,vandalism,intimidation and general public disobedience they do so well...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 10, 2007 9:43 AM

They aren't trapped between two worlds, that's just the kind of nonsense that makes people spend money to integrate people who have no interest in integration.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at March 10, 2007 9:52 AM

This looks like an attempt by savvy imams to keep clerics from foolishly revealing to Australians just how terribly incompatible Islam is to the currently dominant culture & government. Better to keep Islamic ideology under wraps. Mustn’t alarm the stupid kafir while Muslim population & power is still small.

Posted by: FM at March 10, 2007 10:04 AM

I am rather dismayed at JW/DW,

They can find it fit to post this item,but when one of JW/DW,s staunchest Australian supporters site is under attack,JW/DW remains silent

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/07/holy-war-in-the-cairns-post-mosques-churches-sikh-buddhist-temples-all-the-same-claims-editor/#comments

Support the SHEIK and leave a comment at his site,and while you are at it you can listen to some great music composed and performed by the man himself

FEDERAL police are investigating an anti-Islamic website that calls on supporters across Australia to oppose a mosque planned for North Cairns.
The "Winds of Jihad" website, created by a Cairns man who calls himself Sheik Yer’Mami, includes instructions to "do whatever it takes to stop them (Muslims) from spreading their tentacles".
It also urges opponents of a mosque being built at 31 Dunn St, opposite the Pioneer cemetery, to launch a public campaign against the development.
The Far North’s Muslim spiritual leader Imam Abdul Aziz labelled the website as "vulgar", saying he contacted the Australian Federal Police yesterday to alert them to the website.
He said the AFP was investigating the website because of its offensive and racist content.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/03/sheik-on-frontline.html

I am further disapoint that this site also chooses to ignore this

“STOP ISLAMIFICATION OF EUROPE
Demonstration outside the European Parliament
September 11th 2007
Europeans are saying
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
NO SHARIA HERE
So join the call
All European nations must be represented

Stop Islamification Of Europe (SIOE) is an alliance of people across Europe with the single aim of preventing Islam becoming a dominant political force in Europe.
It originated with the joining of Stop Islamseringen Af Danmark (SIAD) a political party dedicated to stopping the Islamification in Denmark with a loose association of people in England whose rallying cry “No Sharia Here” who want to maintain English law and stop the creeping growth of sharia law in England.
SIOE is growing in Europe with the amalgamation of similarly minded groups.

The full article here

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/03/stop-islamification-of-europe.html

Now back On Topic

Its a pity a good source is being gagged

Posted by: shiva at March 10, 2007 10:55 AM

Like I've said before, like calming an animal before they slit the animal's throat. Don't worry kufr, it was all a dream.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 10, 2007 10:56 AM

Hi Shiva, been there. I linked the Sheik's story at LGF also. I see that not many have posted, everyone should post their support for the Sheik.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 10, 2007 11:01 AM

"This looks like an attempt by savvy imams to keep clerics from foolishly revealing to Australians just how terribly incompatible Islam is to the currently dominant culture & government."

Bing-effing-oh, FM. Worst of all is that Taj al-Hilaly is (or was) widely perceived as a moderate. I do believe we've seen all we need to of "moderate" Muslims.

Australia's Muslims are merely attempting to camouflage the intolerant and violent components of their accepted leadership. Please note how these individuals are not being expelled or rejected. There is nothing off-message or off-topic about these jihadist clerics.

These actions represent nothing more than placing a silencer on a gun. What remains is just as lethal as before but even harder to detect. No progress has been made and this sort of “censure” amounts to nothing at all. They may as well have hidden some smoldering torches in a powder magazine.

Posted by: Zenster at March 10, 2007 11:18 AM

Note of course no effort by the Lebanese Muslim Association to explain why these 5 imams are interpreting Islam incorrectly--only dictating that they stop talking about their interpretation to the media.

Posted by: kamala at March 10, 2007 11:19 AM

They are not being denounced for their message. They are not being silenced because they are wrong in their presentation of Islam. They are being silenced because for now, the presentation of that message must be muted: the Infidels are getting restless, and we must put them back into their deep sleep. For now. Only for now.

Posted by: Hugh at March 10, 2007 11:37 AM

http://home.unilang.org/main/forum/viewtopic.php?p=313187#313187

One should take dual Notice in this:

One, that there is no effort mentioned to challenge the islamic legitimacy of these "extremist" views, only to stop the imams from letting every other non-muslim in on them. SO it is not a matter of "you're wrong, the koran teaches that women and men are equals, muslims and Jews are equals, and jihad is 100% inner-struggle" than it is "shut up, you're blowing our cover."

Two, Why are they not worried about raising anti-jew, anti-women, and anti-"infidel" sentiment amongst the muslim population?

I wrote the above on a dhimmi message board.

It as simple amazing the depths of delusion nd oblivion that has infected Europe.

Posted by: senatortombstone at March 10, 2007 11:58 AM

'the Infidels are getting restless,"

...GREAT line for a bumper sticker or tee shirt....

..yes we are, and we should be thinking about getting more restless...Muslims hate the truth and they really hate it when the infidels know the truth....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 10, 2007 12:08 PM

..as Mr T used to say whenever Face would be talking too much: "Shut up fool"..

Posted by: exsgtbrown at March 10, 2007 12:19 PM

"and young Muslims trapped between two cultures—Islam and Australia."
Trapped - meaning they can't choose, helplessly wondering whether it's appropriate to consider western females uncovered meat or whether it's appropriate to call jews pigs or not? Like a kid in a candy shop that can't decide whether to go for the strawberry flavour or banana flavour?I'm afraid most of them have made their choice. And I'am further afraid it's a choice that let's Hilali rejoice..
@Hugh
You are right, I also heavily doubt that these imams were called back because the ummah didn't agree with their views.
It's just been a tactical manouevre which doesn't change the strategy. They simply realized they met unexpected resistance. So they simply follow Mohammed's guidance, seek some sort of truce and wait for the next opportunity.
Yet it's interesting to see how much influence some mere 300000 muslims can have in a Western country - with regards to how much the Coptic Christians for example have in muslim Egypt (they account for 10 - 15% of Egyptian populace..).

Posted by: flibustier at March 10, 2007 12:25 PM

Amusing in they could loose their positions IF bascically the press finds out what they are teaching for certain off camera.

Of course they are literally teaching Koran and the discussions which say rape, pedophilia, murder and theft are justified.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 10, 2007 12:41 PM

The article from "The Australian" (see below) shows a different angle to this story. It says the clerics are being primarily banned from speaking to ISLAMIC media and that the LMA is specifically concerned that they are saying different things to different audiences, as has been exposed so often on JW. Why the difference in coverage between Reuters and The Australian?

A sheikh who joked about Sydney's gang rapes and referred to women who were dressed "immodestly" as "uncovered meat" has been banned from giving sermons at the Lakemba Mosque. And that banning was uncovered by the Australian only last month.

Aren't the LMA doing what we Westerners would want them to do - draw a line between Islam and politics?

Can we give any Muslim the benefit of the doubt?

Radical Muslim clerics in media gag
Richard Kerbaj

FIVE of the nation's most powerful Islamic clerics, including Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, have been banned from talking to the media by Muslim leaders for delivering "anti-Australian" messages.
The Lebanese Muslim Association has gagged the imams from Lakemba Mosque in Sydney's southwest from media commentary - especially to Arabic news outlets - because of the "immeasurable damage" they have caused the community.
A letter was yesterday sent by the Lebanese Muslim Association to its five imams, including Sheik Yahya Safi - the official Australian representative to the Mufti of Lebanon - Sheik Shady Suleiman, and Sheik Hilali.

The letter, obtained by The Australian, demands the imams "pause and desist" from talking to any media outlet, in particular Sydney's Arabic community radio station Voice of Islam.

The imams have been told they could lose their positions as spiritual leaders at the nation's largest mosque if they defy the LMA's orders.

LMA president Tom Zreika yesterday told The Australian the letter was issued to end the "perceived un-Australian viewpoints given by some clerics".

"One of the big issues is the double-speak by the various imams," Mr Zreika said, adding that the messages some clerics delivered in Arabic contradicted comments given in English while talking to the mainstream media.

"They go on to the Voice of Islam and talk about something which really isn't in accordance with our views ... as Australians.

"(While) most of our clerics are selected on the basis that they have Australian values and Australian characteristics ... some of them haven't (lived) up to that."

The LMA's hardline approach towards silencing its clerics comes after the furore sparked by Sheik Hilali last year, following revelations in The Australian last month that the mufti was banned from delivering sermons at Lakemba Mosque.

Sheik Hilali caused national and international uproar last October when The Australian uncovered a sermon in which he compared immodestly dressed women to "uncovered meat" and joked about Sydney's infamous gang rapes.

The cleric, who has been the nominal head of the nation's Muslim community for years, further compounded the controversy by subsequently appearing on Egyptian television to dismiss the furore over his insults to women and make disparaging remarks about Australia's convict beginnings.

Mr Zreika yesterday said he no longer wanted the imams to let their political media statements interfere with their primary tasks of being spiritual advisers.

"We want (clerics) to stay apolitical," he said.

"If they're not going to shape up, they're going to be shipped out, because immeasurable damage has been caused to the community as a result of their media commentary and doublespeak."

Mr Zreika - who refused to single out any of the imams who've caused the Muslim community the most damage - said some of the spiritual leaders had destroyed the relationship Islamic people once enjoyed with mainstream Australia.

"Relations have been set back many, many years between the wider community and the Muslim community," he said. "And the reason that's come about is because ... (some) are saying the wrong thing."

Mr Zreika said the LMA needed to lead by example in taking a hardline approach towards clerics putting politics ahead of religion.

"And if we're not going to lead the way in a fashion which is consistent with the needs of the wider Muslim community ... then we're not doing something right," he said.

Sheik Shady yesterday told The Australian that he supported the LMA's decision, saying it was in the best interests of the Muslim and wider community.

Posted by: PMK at March 10, 2007 1:33 PM

Some many have said it right on this site, its not the message they disagree with, it is that being said now, will make infidels in a pissy mood. say no to mosques, no more muslim immigration. they want to keep their islam. they can stay in their cesspoolcountries.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 10, 2007 2:35 PM

"Mr Zreika yesterday said he no longer wanted the imams to let their political media statements interfere with their primary tasks of being spiritual advisers."

Pure bovine fecal matter. This is damage control and nothing else.

"We want (clerics) to stay apolitical," he said.

Yet more horse hockey. Islam, by its very nature, is political.

Islam and theocracy are inseparable. That is why it is so dangerous and also why Islam is going to be exterminated in the near future.

Posted by: Zenster at March 10, 2007 4:50 PM

Shiva:

Thanks for your post on

STOP ISLAMIFICATION OF EUROPE

I did not know of its existence.
I am acting on it.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 10, 2007 5:48 PM

Shiva:

Thanks for your post on

STOP ISLAMIFICATION OF EUROPE

I did not know of its existence.
I am acting on it.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 10, 2007 5:48 PM

Listen to how Muslims took over tolerant, multicultural Lebanon – Brigitte Gabriel explains the demographic pattern of conquest and general horror show:

http://multimedia.heritage.org/content/wm/Lehrman-092706a.wvx

Australia, don’t let the sneaky Muslim baby-boom Jihad happen to you! Stop Muslim immigration and start deporting the radicals.

Posted by: FM at March 10, 2007 10:10 PM

IN 1946 the most advanced, tolerant state in Central or Eastern Europe, then led by two of the best-educated, most tolerant, most sophisticated products of Western civilization --Tomas Masaryk (son of the founder of modern Czechoslovakia), and Eduard Benes, decided that the 7 million Czechs and Slovaks could not, given the security threat posed by 3 milllion ethnic Germans, who had been the "Sudeteners" whose supposed mistreatment was a subject of such solicitousness by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime, and many of whom, like the ethnic Germans or Volksdeutche elsewhere, collaborated with the German conquerors and were treated by them as German citizens, given the same food rations and other benefits completely forbidden to the non-Germans.

The Benes Decrees of 1946, or rather that particular one among them (known as the Benes Decree even though it was one of several), were aimed at ending once and for all the security threat that 3 million ethnic Germans, who had amply demonstrated that they identified with, and owed their loyalty to, their fellow members of Deutschtum, and not to the Czechoslovak state. It did so by expelling them, even though ethnic Germans had lived in the "Sudeten" area for 600 years. Not a single Czech leader then, not a single Czech leader in the fifty-one years since, has uttered a word of regret about the actual decree (one or two have said its execution was not perfect). Not the poet Jaroslav Seifert. Not Aleksandr Dubcek. Not Pavel Kohout. Not General Ludovik Svoboda. Not Vaclav Havel (though he was careful, on a state visit to Austria, to indicate some doubts not about the Benes Decree itself, but how it was carried out). Not a single Western leader who had lived through World War II -- not Churchill, not De Gaulle, not Truman, no one, ever criticized the Czechs for this. No one today looks upon the Czechs as monsters, for having enforced the Benes Decree. Do you? Of course not.

And this is only one example -- there are far more examples outside Europe -- of an act undertaken to preserve the safety, and the civilization, and the continued survival, of a people who have been threatened. The fact that sometimes expulsions have been unjustified, based on fears that were groundless, does not mean that there are not justified reasons, justified fears. The case of Czechoslovakia in 1946 was one such.

It is an example that Western peoples, who have no right to throw away their own inheritance, their own civilizational legacy, out of some weakness of will, some unexamined sentimentality about how Everyone Is the Same or People Are the Same the Whole World Over or some other Family-f-Man sentimentality that can lead the civilized to succcumb, too easily, to the primitive.

Others have decided to decry this as "multiculturalism" but since that word itself has become a counter in some internal war of left and right within the Infidel, especially Western world, it would be better to avoid it, and to focus on what lies behind it: the refusal to agree that Western civilization has been remarkable, has led to remarkable things and among those remarkable things has been the advanced Western democracies, and the rights guaranteed to individuals, as well as unhindered rights of mental freedom -- free and skeptical inquiry, artistic expression, the very idea of the individual as opposed to the collectivism of Nazism, Fascism, Communism, and Islam, where the Volk, or the Party, or the Umma, are owed the supreme good, and owed the sole loyalty of the individuals who count for so little.

The mixture as before will not do. Stakes are too high. Civilizational legacies are too precious. France must not end up looking like Algeria, England like Pakistan, Germany like Turkey, Spain like Morocco, Italy like Libya and Somalia. The West has far less to be embarrassed about than it has allowed itself to be buffaloed into believing. Those who live in that West should make a list of the names of those who most appeal to them in that West. Each person's list will be different. Most will have Shakespeare and Leonardo on it. But some may have Fra Angelico while others have in his place Balthus; others may have Dante while others, in his place, have Puskin; some will have Spinoza and Hume, while in their place others will have St. Augustine and John Henry Cardinal Newman. But the point will be clear to all: not a single one of these people who created the West could have been produced by, or been tolerated for a minute by, the world of Islam.

Think about that. And ask yourself why that is. And then -- don't stop thinking about it.

Posted by: Hugh at March 10, 2007 11:30 PM

Hugh, please know I take more than a little pride in having a better than average command of the English language. An Oxford educated supervisor who spoke German, French, Chinese and English nonetheless stood in awe of my own vocabulary and once inscribed a book to me accordingly.

Please permit me to say that your preceding post has left me dumbstruck in admiration. You provide all of us persuasive tools in each of ours fight against Islam's oppression.

Few if any people on the Internet have ever managed to elicit such praise from me, but I am more than happy to deliver it now. That so articulate and lettered of a person should be (rightfully) on the side of Western freedom and liberty is more than a little consoling for me. The foe we face might nigh well be insurmountable were it not for the convincingly expressive ability of people like you.

Thank You So Very Much,

Zenster

Posted by: Zenster at March 11, 2007 1:57 AM

Zenster-

Hugh is amazing. I compare him to Jack Kerouac writing "On the Road" on a roll of teletype paper stuck into his typewriter. Hugh reels it out very fast, like a long fishing line. Straight off the top of his head with no cheats by looking at books or internet

http://www.biblio.com/authors/619/Jack_Kerouac_Biography.html
Publishing legend has it that Kerouac typed the manuscript frenziedly on large rolls of Teletype paper, not pausing for revision, and deposited these rolls on the desk of his startled editor.

Posted by: dennisw at March 11, 2007 4:28 AM