People need to have four children to maintain a country. Or muslims will take over without any more immigration.

And immigration needs to stop. 25% of inmates are foreign in LA county jail.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gangs10mar10,0,7829803.story?coll=la-home-headlines

How many indeginous want to have children when they see no future?

Posted by: Borg at March 10, 2007 6:29 PM

.....and was it not God who said lack of faith in HIM is what causes droughts.

Guess God was wrong and islam is more powerful than God as muslims are always.....right they tell us.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 10, 2007 6:30 PM

To use a term which means different things on different sides of the Pacific, it's "Root'n for Allah!".

Sorry to burst your bubble, Sheik, but (non-muslim) Australians are having a baby boom all their own, and I don't like the chances of your grandkids still being faithfull the Ummah.

Posted by: Brett_McS at March 10, 2007 6:39 PM

Re: "Australian Muslim leader: Lack of faith in Islam causes drought, climate change and pollution"

This is the greatest explanation since the cow-fart theory.

Posted by: Frank at March 10, 2007 6:40 PM

Sounds like a lot of superstition. Pretty primitive.
Does that mean there'll be an uptick in terrorism when it doesn't rain for a while? Thay used to blame Jews for things like that. Say...come to think of it, times don't vhange much, just the labels.

Posted by: jewdog at March 10, 2007 6:40 PM

If God has vengeance and shows his signs it shows that America a Christian and countries are the richest and not a Muslim ones. The Muslims countries are full of sand and dry heat and beauty of women are covered up with the curse of Islam dressed in black, in Europe black is considered death and so fitting in Islamic mentality no wonder Goths dress in black too.
God showed Indonesia some plagues if that is the case and it showed America with Katrina when it did not help the Jews keep their land when they were forced out. Like the religion it self-Islamics takes western religion and wisdom as their own and yet fail to live up to the real thing.

Those who bless Israel are better off than those against it, is that a coincidence it's written in Bible?

At least the Europeans care for their children by not over populating their countries into starvation and giving their kids priority over numbers which is better for the planet and social mental well being of attention that smaller families get.
On the news one day I heard a Palestinian lady say she had 12 kids, how thoughtless to bring all these children into a war savaged region how will she look after them if war breaks out I would look after 1 or 2 kids and make sure they are safe rather than concentrate on more kids along the way. By the age of 3 they will end up as wannabie terrorists so their souls are dead by then.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at March 10, 2007 6:46 PM

"Behind the closed doors of some Melbourne mosques and bookshops . . ."

Just why are these doors closed in the first place? Mohammedan sermons must be in the common language of the country and open to anyone who wants to listen, especially the police!!!!!

Posted by: Pelayo at March 10, 2007 6:51 PM

"The fear of Allah is not there. So we have now a polluted earth, a polluted water, a wasteland," he told a meeting this year.

this imman must be talking of the cesspoolstan he just left for a Western country. islam caused the filth, poverty,
they treat their women like cattle, and cattle are breeders, and so more bomb belts need to be made.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 10, 2007 6:52 PM

Western governments ought to be broadcasting nonstop into Muslim lands and among Muslim communities in the West, with the kind of information about natural disasters that will draw a link, or allow its audiences to draw a link, between Islam and natural disastes. For there have been quite a few earthquakes of note, including the one that levelled Bam in Iran (and in which the government authorites of the Islamic Republic performed so badly), and the earthquake in Pakistan (where it was Infidels who did all the important rescuing and offered the only decent medical care, care still being offered by American army hospitals), and in the earthquake in Istanbul, it was outsiders (including the Israelis) who provided important aid. And in Indonesia, the Tsunami that did such damage did it most to Aceh, whose inhabitants are most fanatical in their observance of Islam. Again and again the connnection between Islam and the wrath of God ought to be noted. And in Bangladesh, which is subject to constant floods, it should be warned that inundations will only increase, and the inhabitants should be made aware that their only safety may lie in India, and they should not expect to be admitted to India, to be rescued by the Indians, if they continue to persecute and kill non-Muslims, especially Hindus, and that they perhaps had better rediscover the religion of their ancestors, the ones who were forced to convert to Islam. When you are attempting to influence primitive peoples, your appeal must be primitive as well. If they are superstitious, if they are credulous, by all means appeal to their superstition, appeal to their credulity. Don't make the kind of arguments suitable for the M.I.T. Faculty Club when trying to introduce doubts about Islam to hundreds of millions of exceedingly primitive people.

Get off Islam, for it means earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, all the signs of Allah's wrath. He is mad, apparently, that people continue to adhere to a religion that, 1350 years ago, was "hijacked." Back to whatever it was one's ancestors before, before conquerors, or missionaries, came bearing the "gift" that they imposed, the "gift" of Islam.

One uses what one has. One appeals to the primitive using primitive means. That is what Muslim propagandists understand in their well-financed campaigns to target the economically and psychically marginal in the West. Why shouldn't we, attempting to give them tit for tat, do the same? They offer nonsense about Islam as a vehicle for "social justice." It is nothing of the sort. They talk of its "universalism" when in fact it is the vehicle for Arab linguistic, cultural, and ultimately political imperialism.

Use whatever you can to appeal to primitive minds if your goal is to make the world safer for the non-primitive. On the other hand, if you think Marquess of Queensberry rules are the way to go, and besides, the very word "primitive" offends you for some reason, then forget about it. Offer what George Bush and others now offer: help with fighting "poverty," assistance in overcoming any and all fissures that arise within the Camp of Islam, endless Jizyah payments, no attempt to diminish oil revenues that fund the world-wide Jihad, pretense that there is nothing at all wrong with Islam.

Go ahead. Join Bush. Join the left-wing twins of Bush who do the same damn thing. Make the world safe, safer, safest for the al-Qaradawis, and Khomeinis, and Bin Bazzes, of this world.

Posted by: Hugh at March 10, 2007 6:54 PM

"The birth rate in the Western countries is going down. People are more interested in their careers . . . they don't want to have babies," Sheik Green says in one DVD.
"So don't you think, Muslim brothers and sisters, we've got a bit of an opportunity here? They're not having babies any more. So what if, instead, we have the babies?

Too late we have caught on to that,already many
muslims in the UK have had benefits drastically cut...especially a few "spokesmen"
I cannot wait for the census in 2011 to find out how many children the indigenous ferals in the UK are currently breeding as last week the Mail
carried an article warning about this.
The only way muslims will out breed and take over
is if the benefits gravy train keeps rolling on
and high tax payers stop leaving this country in droves !

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at March 10, 2007 7:00 PM

With as much noise as they make, you'd think Moslem thugs were a big part of Australia's population. But I read recently that there's about 250000 thugs out of 26,000,000 Australians.

It would be an easy matter to repatriate them. They would just lose some taxi drivers and check kiters.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at March 10, 2007 7:10 PM

Off Topic:
I have been reading this site for a number of months now and finally signed in. I thought I would share a site I found the other day.
http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php
(Click on my name and you will go to the site)
Some of you may know about this. This site updates every few minutes and shows terrorism locations and other suspicious actives around the world. I have know idea of the accuracy of the site.

In the future I will offer my 2-cents on the topics blogged.

Posted by: DonAVP at March 10, 2007 7:10 PM

I agree with Rougie. Still we need more WESTERN babies. Two babies really shouldn't be a problem and that would make sure, that our number isn't shrinking.

Posted by: Daniel at March 10, 2007 7:12 PM

No, lack of faith in Islam will lead to open-mindedness and technological progress, thereby helping to reduce pollution, heal the climate and find alternate sources of water.

Posted by: jewdog at March 10, 2007 7:13 PM

The Christian religious right in the US is no different. Remember Pat Robertson blaming hurricane Katrina on homosexuality?

http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/pat_robertson/

Check out the above link for some of the crap that comes out that "respected" religious leader's mouth.

Posted by: Yankinwaoz at March 10, 2007 7:15 PM

After the middle of the present century, the first danger had in reality disappeared. Each of the three powers which now divide the world is in fact unconquerable, and could only become conquerable through slow demographic changes which a government with wide powers can easily avert.
-George Orwell, 1984

These Muslims catch on to the democratic process really well. But change will come with the failure of the social safety net. Has anybody else noticed all the AARP and AMA commercials calling for more money for children, retirees, pension support, Medicare, etc.? Newsflash: taxes cannot close the gap between what has been promised and what is there to give.

The probable outcome of too much freedom is only too much slavery in the individual and the state. Probably, then, tyranny develops out of no other constitution than democracy--from the height of liberty, I take it, the fiercest extreme of servitude.
-Plato

The West has enough airlift capacity to humanely end this nightmare in a few days.

Posted by: pez at March 10, 2007 7:22 PM

Hi Hugh,
Sometimes you need to fight religion and superstition with religion as that is the only way some people will hear. They will not listen to an atheist infidel man made lawmakers, but even a believer of a God has some respect by Muslims. The antidote is religion, one that is greater than their and that's Christianity by numbers by nations and history and by the true message that a God would put him self up for death for the sake of his children. Call it myth but the message is greater than the actions Mohammad ever practised, I am not sure what holy things he actually did or teaches in his message in comparison without some force being added.

But I blame the Godless attitude growing in the West where they make the Bible and Christ sound like a crime in its political correctness policies and yet defend with open arms a fascist intolerant system that Islam creates when their religion turns into a political agenda through over populace in one region of a country that in a way merges its meaning with the Godless attitude politicians embrace so that the two have a common ground. As long as Christ is out of the picture Islam, political atheists and the Devil him self can be one of the same unholy trinity.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at March 10, 2007 7:26 PM

Fight dhimmitude and visit http://www.masada1234.blogspot.com !

Posted by: Bar Kochba at March 10, 2007 7:36 PM

Fight dhimmitude and visit http://www.masada1234.blogspot.com !

Posted by: Bar Kochba at March 10, 2007 7:36 PM

Australian Muslim leader: Lack of faith in Islam causes drought, climate change and pollution
+++++++++++++++++++++

the Mo forgot erectile disfunction............

Posted by: The Texican at March 10, 2007 7:38 PM

I don't think Western politicians have time to be real Christians and know all the truths that matter let alone the prophecies they are fulfilling blindly.

I don't think Muslims have the time to be real politicians because they are too busy in their religions to be educated about the world and what other religions mean outside Islam only for their dictated texts of the Koran to guide them by. That is why Jews are the ones to blame because that is what is taught and that is why Western politics say Islam is peaceful because they have not read properly the Bible that these Arab nation leagues will unite for battle against a future Israel.

The blind are leading the Blind and the ones who know have time to read the scriptures have no power to change the out come.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at March 10, 2007 7:44 PM

Well in response I would have to say that by this thinking, the earthquakes in Iran and Turkey and Indonesia are caused by the fact these people follow the stone god Allah. And dont forget the tsunami that of course was caused by the fact most of those people follow the stone god Allah too.

So give up on the false neo-pagan worship and get close to the truly revealed God.

Posted by: payingattention at March 10, 2007 7:47 PM

Faith in Islam caused Darfur.

Posted by: infidel! at March 10, 2007 8:02 PM

"So don't you think, Muslim brothers and sisters, we've got a bit of an opportunity here? They're not having babies any more. So what if, instead, we have the babies?"

where is my husband? I'm gonna go make another non-muslim baby, for the cause!

Posted by: kelisw at March 10, 2007 8:09 PM

Daniel- Replacement is four children NOT two.

I know at a glance that seems wrong, but it isn't.

I posted this report by Mark Steyn before and my explanation of why four children is replacement...

I think this is worth reposting~

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18159605%255E7583,00.html

MY interest in demography dates back to September 11, 2001, when a demographic group I hadn't hitherto given much thought managed to get my attention. I don't mean the, ah, unfortunate business with the planes and buildings and so forth, but the open cheering of the attacks by their co-religionists in Montreal, Yorkshire, Copenhagen and elsewhere. How many people knew there were fast-growing and culturally confident Muslim populations in Scandinavia?

Demography doesn't explain everything but it accounts for a good 90 per cent. The "who" is the best indicator of the what-where-when-and-why. Go on, pick a subject. Will Japan's economy return to the heady days of the 1980s when US businesses cowered in terror? Answer: No. Japan is exactly the same as it was in its heyday except for one fact: it stopped breeding and its population aged. Will China be the hyperpower of the 21st century? Answer: No. Its population will get old before it gets rich.

Check back with me in a century and we'll see who's right on that one. But here's one we know the answer to: Why is this newspaper published in the language of a tiny island on the other side of the earth? Why does Australia have an English Queen, English common law, English institutions? Because England was the first nation to conquer infant mortality.

By 1820 medical progress had so transformed British life that half the population was under the age of 15. Britain had the manpower to take, hold, settle and administer huge chunks of real estate around the planet. Had, say, China or Russia been first to overcome childhood mortality, the modern world would be very different.

What country today has half of its population under the age of 15? Italy has 14 per cent, the UK 18 per cent, Australia 20 per cent - and Saudi Arabia has 39 per cent, Pakistan 40 per cent and Yemen 47 per cent. Little Yemen, like little Britain 200 years ago, will send its surplus youth around the world - one way or another.

So, whether or not her remarks were "outrageous" (the Democrats' Lyn Allison), "insensitive" (the Greens' Rachel Siewert), "offensively discriminatory" (Sydney's Daily Telegraph) and "bigoted" (this newspaper), I salute Danna Vale. You don't have to agree with her argument that Australia's aborting itself out of recognition and that therefore Islam will inherit by default to think it's worth asking a couple of questions:

* Is abortion in society's interest?

* Can a society become more Muslim in its demographic character without also becoming more Muslim in its political and civil character?

The first one's easy: One can understand that 17-year-old Glenys working the late shift at Burger King and knocked up by some bloke who scrammed 10 minutes after conception may believe it's in her interest to exercise "a woman's right to choose", but the state has absolutely no interest in encouraging women in general to exercise that choice.

Quite the opposite: given that today's wee bairns are tomorrow's funders of otherwise unsustainable social programs, all responsible governments should be seriously natalist. The reason Europe, Russia and Japan are doomed boils down to a big lack of babies. Abortion isn't solely responsible for that but it's certainly part of the problem.

In attempting to refute Vale's argument, this newspaper praised the nation's maidenhood for lying back and thinking of Australia and getting the national fertility rate up from 1.73 births per woman in 2001 to 1.77, "well above rates in developed nations such as Italy, Spain, Japan, Germany and South Korea".

Well, pop the champagne corks! That's like saying Mark Latham's political prospects are better than Harold Holt's. The countries cited are going out of business. Seventeen European nations are now at what demographers call "lowest-low" fertility - 1.3 births per woman, the point at which you're so far down the death spiral you can't pull out.

In theory, those countries will find their population halving every 40 years or so. In practice, it will be quicker than that, as the savvier youngsters figure there's no point sticking around a country that's turned into one big undertaker's waiting room: not every pimply burger flipper is going to want to work himself into the ground to pay for new shuffleboard courts at the old folks' home.

In 2005, some 137 million babies were born around the globe. That 137 million is the maximum number of 20-year-olds who'll be around in 2025. There are no more, no other sources; that's it, barring the introduction of mass accelerated cloning (which is by no means an impossibility). Who that 137 million are will determine the character of our world.

The shape's already becoming clear. Take those Danish cartoons. Every internet blogger wants to take a stand on principle alongside plucky little Denmark. But there's only five million of them. Whereas there are 20 million Muslims in Europe - officially. That's the equivalent of the Danes plus the Irish plus the Belgians plus the Estonians.

You do the mathematics. If you want the reality of Europe in a nutshell, walk into a supermarket belonging to the French chain Carrefour. You'll be greeted by a notice in Arabic: "Dear Clients, We express solidarity with the Islamic and Egyptian community. Carrefour doesn't carry Danish products." It's strictly business: they have three Danish customers and a gazillion Muslim ones. Retail sales-wise, they know which way their bread's buttered and it isn't with Lurpak.

That's Vale's second point. If a society chooses to outsource its breeding, who your suppliers are is not unimportant. "I've heard those very silly remarks made about immigrants to this country since I was a child," says Allison.

"If it wasn't the Greeks, it was the Italians or it was the Vietnamese."

Those are races or nationalities. But Islam is a religion, and an explicitly political one - unlike the birthplace of your grandfather it's not something you leave behind in the old country. Indeed, for its adherents in the West, it becomes their principal expression - a Pan-Islamic identity that transcends borders.

Instead of a melting pot, there's conversion: A Scot can marry a Greek or a Botswanan, but when a Scot marries a Yemeni it's because the former has become a Muslim. In defiance of normal immigration patterns, the host country winds up assimilating with Islam: French municipal swimming baths introduce non-mixed bathing sessions; a Canadian Government report recommends the legalisation of polygamy; Seville removes King Ferdinand III as patron of the annual fiesta because he played too, um, prominent a role in taking back Spain from the Moors.

When the fastest-breeding demographic group on the planet is also the one most resistant to the pieties of the social-democratic state that's a profound challenge. Yes, yes, I know Islam is very varied, and Riyadh has a vibrant gay scene, and the Khartoum Feminist Publishing Collective now has so many members they've rented lavish new offices above the clitorectomy clinic. I don't claim to have all the answers, except when I'm being interviewed live on TV. But that's better than claiming, as most of Vale's disparagers do, that there aren't even any questions.

Where she goes wrong is in consigning the Lucky Country to the same trash can of history as Old Europe. For Australia, this is not hail and farewell - or, as the Romans put it, ave atque (Danna) vale. Japan is unicultural: a native population ageing and dying. Europe is bicultural: a fading elderly population yielding to a young surging Islam.

But Australia, like the US, is genuinely multicultural, at least in the sense that its immigration is not from a single overwhelming source. The remorseless transformation of Eutopia into Eurabia is already prompting the Dutch to abandon their country in record numbers, for Canada and New Zealand.

In the years ahead, North America and Australia will have the pick of European talent and a chance to learn the lessons of its self-extinction, as they apply to abortion and much else.

In the '70s and '80, Muslims had children - those self-detonating Islamists in London and Gaza and Bali are a literal baby boom - while westerners took all those silly books about overpopulation seriously. A people that won't multiply can't go forth or go anywhere. Those who do will shape the world we live in.

Mark Steyn, a columnist with the Telegraph Group, is a regular contributor to The Australian's Opinion page.

----------------------------
I thought the above article was right on target.

Too often I have heard the experts discuss the need to only have a "replacement" family of two children and many have listened.

Replacement is actually four children, not two. Because many children do not grow up and reproduce due to death caused by illness and accidents (or war), do not marry or marry someone whose family is complete, can not marry (due to mental illness or genetics like C.P. or Downs or autism), don't stay married long enough to reproduce, or can not reproduce for various reasons (illness, accidents, homosexuality and sterility). The rest must have four children to make up the difference or population shrinks. Growth requires even more.

Many people have had only one child thinking they are doing good for the world.

And the calls for population control are everywhere. Except the islamic areas of the world. While half the islamic world lives entirely on benefits provided by the west. The western family must have two incomes to get by and their money gets sent overseas, and now also locally, to provide for huge immigrant families.

Even if abortion was not legal, most non-muslim people would not be having large families. Even wealthy people have only two children. They have been brainwashed (in school) into thinking reproducing is bad for the world. Stop the brainwashing. And it's hard to have large families if both must work. Outsourcing jobs is not helping.

I like Mr. Steyns remark about countries needing to be "natalist". Family and community support would go a long way, too. Large families are treated with disdain instead of compliments. When a pregnancy is announced instead of hearty congrats comments are more like -you know what causes that don't you, or, got caught, huh? Or can you afford that? Or aren't you too young to have kids, or, more baggage? Or, why do you want to be tied down with a big family? Unless you live in a Mormon area. And marketers always show the perfect family as two kids. Anything more than that is used to show an out of control situation. Brainwashing all around.

The west needs to STOP helping THEM and start helping itself. Would you bring a baby lion into your home and feed it? Long term consequences matter. The Christian religion paints a rosy picture of the lion laying down with the lamb. In the real world that is suicide for the lamb.

~
In addition comparing today to WWI or II falls short in some ways. Though technology may make a difference, hopefully. The enemy was not placed around the world in strategic postitions. And the populations were equally young. There was no religious fervor ( except Japan, the reason for their fierceness), just nationalism. There also was no internet and cell phones usable to set up instant riots. The enemy could not see instantly the results of bluffing and real attacks. The enemy also didn't have "friends" everywhere standing up for them against their own country.

Posted by: Borg at March 23, 2006 07:57 PM

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010715.php

Four children - not two.

Posted by: Borg at March 10, 2007 8:38 PM

when some people get off the tirade of blame Bush for all.. get real.
Europeana governments, and other western countries need to make it difficult for muslims breeders to breed. cut off and or limit welfare payments. only those sick can get welfare, and the money drops after two kids. there are other ways to cause a shakedown on these breeders, make them accountable, make them pay down their welfare. deport all those who break laws, ie cheating on welfare, taxes.. etc. many ways to make it very hard on them.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 10, 2007 8:38 PM

australia, a nation of men, led by donkeys.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at March 10, 2007 8:41 PM

And Zena let the polygamy laws be enforced. Why should a religion be excused from the standard laws. Those laws were made for a reason. Polygamy causes poverty. No father present can cause troubled teens.

Polygamy causes problems.

ENFORCE THE LAW.

Posted by: Borg at March 10, 2007 8:45 PM

"...noting the huge earthquakes that destroyed Bam (in Iran) and that keep re-occuring in Iran, and that hit Istanbul, and the earthquake in Pakistan, and the tsunami that did such damage to Aceh, that Indonesian island whose inhabitants are most fanatical in their observance of Islam. Again and again the connnection between Islam and the wrath of God ought to be noted."

And the recent large earthquakes in Indonesia...

Far from being connectionless and only appealing to "primitives."

jesusisthelamb is quite correct.

The New Orleans (Crescent City...) Katrina / Gaza expulsion parallels and timings are marked in particular. And you had better hope bush al-saud's "palestine" is never created or this Country will experience worse "coincidences" of truly Biblical proportions.

Posted by: Arm A. Geddon at March 10, 2007 8:46 PM

For those interested in a nice parallel blog with this awesome one, little green footballs has opened up their registration temporarily (not sure how long it'll stay open..it varies):

www.littlegreenfootballs.com

good ones welcome...bad ones will be eaten upon entry!

Posted by: Highrise at March 10, 2007 8:53 PM

I would just like to state that I do not believe there is such a thing as moderate Islam only someone who does not know and follow Islam properly.

Posted by: cobber at March 10, 2007 8:55 PM

cobber, plus you never know which one will follow what their koran says.

Moderates don't exist. They either believe their koran or they don't know at all what they believe.

Posted by: Highrise at March 10, 2007 9:08 PM

Roughie:
The only viable answer to the Islam problem, is the 6-step solution I mentioned in the 4th comment on this thread :)

==

Also Muslims can meet in their homes, they can be mini-mosques.
I mostly agree with what you say. But what happens when Muslims are in the numerical majority?

I agree with your 6 points
but I would also add:

7. A restriction on arranged marriages where the non-resident person is imported from a Muslim country. Denmark has restrictions.
8. Deport all
8. Eliminate the funding from Saudi Arabia of foreign Mosques.
9. Demand reciprocity : If Hindu temples cannot be built in Mecca that neither should Mosques in be built in Western countries.
10. Revoke all resident permits of Muslims from OIC countries. Deport them.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 10, 2007 9:19 PM

Has there ever been a study saying how large a human population the earth could support?

The problem is not the lack of growth in Western societies, it's the overbreeding in Islamic countries. Gone are the days when few children reached adulthood. Diseases that once killed children in great numbers have been eliminated. People living in cities don't need large numbers of children to work the land.

Western countries may not be having children in the numbers we once did, but is it really desirable to keep increasing our population year after year, whether or not a single immigrant is allowed in? Isn't there a saturation point?

Countries where women bear eight to ten children should not be allowed to use western countries as pressure valves, whether or not the people are Muslims. If Mexico or India or Iran supports having large numbers of children, they should be required to assume responsibility for them.

Just look at Iran. How many children have been born since the revolution? They have a population imbalance that can only lead to chaos down the road. The population gets younger and younger. That's a lot of people to educate and employ. No one from Iran should be allowed into a Western country - period. They created their own mess. Soon they'll end up like China - one child per couple.

Getting into a baby race with the Islamic nations is not the answer.

More people require more homes, more roads, more food, water and fuel, more appliances, more oxygen. We'll cut down trees for homes and clear space for cultivation. We'll use more water for irrigation. There will be no wildlife since there will be no open areas. Paved roads will soak up the heat of the sun. At what point will the earth be unable to support the TOTAL human population?

Posted by: PMK at March 10, 2007 9:40 PM

More than 95% of armed conflicts today involve Islam. And it is the Muslims who are the oppressors.They are the ones who cause wars... If that's what they want, then let's give them their jihad!

Posted by: The Resistance at March 10, 2007 9:40 PM

"A LEADING Muslim cleric has blamed the drought, climate change and pollution on Australians' lack of faith in Allah."

Maybe it's fealty to Allah that has brought on climate change and pollution. Muslim nations are among the prime contributors to global pollution - they provide petroleum. So then all Muslim nations should cease using electricity?

Posted by: PMK at March 10, 2007 9:43 PM

Catawhumpus, two words - Soylent Green.

Posted by: Pelayo at March 10, 2007 9:53 PM

If a giant meteorite obliterated Mecca during the height of annual pilgrimage...

...this too would be considered irrefutable evidence of Oolah's call for a return to "pure" medieval Islam.

It would not even occur to most Muslims that it might be:

a) sheer chance of nature.

b) karma; what goes around comes around.

d) another God's direct hit.

Posted by: alexon at March 10, 2007 10:06 PM

Catawhumpus, two words - Soylent Green.
Posted by: Pelayo
http://www.soylent-green.com/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 10, 2007 10:21 PM

"The idea that they should be interested in "overcoming" non-Muslims in the first place -- that is taken for granted".-Robert

I follow the axiom that nothing ever turns out the way we think it will-not even our lives turn out as expected by ourselves and others. (Personally, I've had good fortune and things have not turned out the way I thought they would-LOL.) But in all seriousness, if some of the climate changes predicted for the future occur, much of the Muslim world will be in deep doo-doo. As Yogi Berra once said, "the future isn't what it used to be". Mr. Muslim "Overcoming" may agree with Yogi one day as he wished he had some water.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070311/D8NPKSRG2.html

Posted by: Frank at March 10, 2007 10:24 PM

Rougie:

Doing any of the things on your list would require the whole-sale elimination of PC culture/thought/media before anyone in government would even listen to your list. Morover, even if you could persuade Congress and the President, there would be Constitutional issues unless the proper framework is set.

How to you proposed to get from here to there?
How do we set the proper framework?

It will probably take another 9/11, but I do think Robert's questionnaire is a good place to start. We can take steps against people who act against the Constitution. We cannot take steps against U.S. citizens solely for their religion per se.

If we can slay the PC beast, the Muslims in this country will either leave, get put in jail for their actions, or become submissive. Without PC getting in the way, there may be more reason to hope for greater secularization. More Muslim defectors (a.k.a. Tampa conference) could help out as well.

In my view, the questionnaire coupled with public highlighting of these Shariah-law is a good start--even if you conclude that your action plan is ultimately necessary.

One of the Republicans running for President needs to talk about this. I don't think there is a chance in hell that a Democrat will say anything that risks losing Arab voters.

You can' change government policy without changing minds. Cut through the media cloud, and the political toads will follow.

Posted by: JSobieski at March 10, 2007 10:28 PM

Funny-the ummah has plenty of faith in Islam and yet immigrants leave there all the time for the West. Why would they want to leave "paradise" in order to live in such a crappy infidel world?

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at March 10, 2007 10:38 PM

JSobieski:

Agreed with what you say. PC correctness (liberalism) is a massive problem and effectively ties our hands.

Pardon me for being obtuse but where is the URL for Robert's Questionnaire? I would like to do something with this in the UK

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 10, 2007 10:41 PM

"Funny-the ummah has plenty of faith in Islam..."-IFL

I'm not so sure about that and neither are you sure about that as you note they want to leave their world. Behind all this arrogance and these threats I sense great fear. Real power is always restrained, and weakness flails about and covers itself with a veneer of bravado. I think that under all the bully-bravado there are oceans of doubt and rage based in an awareness of the coming changes to their world.

Posted by: Frank at March 10, 2007 10:49 PM

Interesting point Frank.

But, "they want to leave their world" may just be more a case of wanting to leave the poverty but to bring the clinging certainties with them.

Posted by: alexon at March 10, 2007 10:56 PM

Unlike refugees from Nazism, or Communism, who hated Nazis and hated Communists, and wanted only to escape from them and, in many cases, to actively work against them, the so-called "refugees" or simply immigrants from Muslim lands bring with them, in their mental baggage, Islam itself. They do not realize that it is Islam, with its inshallah-fatalism and natural support for depotism as opposed to advanced Western democracy (for the belief-system locates legitimacy not in the expressed will of the people, but in the will expressed by Allah in the Qur'an, as glossed by Hadith and Sira). They carry the belief-system with them, and what is more, attempt - not without success -- to spread it about, to make sure that the numbers of adherents of Islam grow and grow and grow. It is this Da'wa, and demographic conquest that is the result of fantastic, utterly unchecked Muslim migration, and the great disparity in birth-rates between Muslims (who often smuggle in plural wives, supported by Infidel taxpayers in their generous welfare payments), and the indigenous non-Muslims, that has, for example, caused the 15,000 Muslims in Holland in 1970 to become 1 million, or 5-7 million Muslims now to burden the educational and justice systems, and the welfare benefits, and the laic state, and social peace, in France, and England, and Germany, and everywhere that Muslims in large numbers have been permitted to settle -- which has led, no clear-sighted Infidel can deny, to a situation far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous -- and becoming more unpleasant, more expensive, more physically dangerous every day -- for the indigenous Infidels.

This must stop. This suicidal policy cannot continue.

Posted by: Hugh at March 10, 2007 11:11 PM

Hugh-

It's not going to continue because people are no longer ignorant about this belief-system. Kuffirs were ignorant. That's changed and even Muslims sense the growing coldness of the Kuffirs to their deception, their empty supremacism. Kuffirs don't respect this bizarre belief-system.

They will deport themselves when the welfare benefits are cut and eliminated. That will become policy much sooner than anyone might imagine. Even tolerant Holland has had it. The Dutch are "tolerant" of anything that does not interfere with commerce-and these clowns are interfering with commerce. Even the big ol oafy Dutch are repelled by this. In 1970 people in Holland and elsewhere did not know what they know now about Islam. The D- crowd has moved to a B in this course which has been learned the hard way.

Posted by: Frank at March 10, 2007 11:36 PM

Getting into a baby race with the Islamic nations is not the answer.
Posted by PMK

I disagree. If we allow them to infiltrate our countries and outbreed us, what then? Majority rules, except when you live in a country like the USA, where the majority indigenous population allows special interest minority groups to wage endless campaigns for victim rights, even though they are not victims. When the indigenous population becomes the minority, those rules will not apply because Mexicans and muslims are not politically correct or egalitarian. The largest ethnic/religious/political group will impose its will on all. Based upon today's statistics, that will either be Mexicans or muslims. Mexicans will outnumber muslims for a while but both groups are proliferous breeders with violent, primitive cultures. America will become a third-world country if either group becomes dominant. This frightening scenario will take decades to evolve, but it is in the first stages right now.

There is plenty of space for population growth in North America and I would much rather see it filled with the children of indigenous Americans rather than Mexicans and muslims. You can rest assured that if our population does not increase from within, the politicians will increase it through third-world immigration, just as they have been doing in Europe (and here) for thirty years. Muslims will stop having obscenely large families when they have to support them, or when muslim females wake up and revolt against their traditional roles as sex slaves and brood mares.

Posted by: Susanp at March 11, 2007 12:22 AM

Hugh said

When you are attempting to influence primitive peoples, your appeal must be primitive as well.

Huh? But the point of this article is that those disasters are explained as proof that the Muslims are not following the Qur'an closely enough. They'll agree that Muslims are being punished, but their solution is to become ever more fervent believers.

When it comes to influencing primitive peoples, we are the neophytes, the mullahs are the masters.

Posted by: special_guest at March 11, 2007 12:34 AM

susanp: "Muslims will stop having obscenely large families when they have to support them, or when muslim females wake up and revolt against their traditional roles as sex slaves and brood mares. "

Well put.

To the larger part of the article, it is clear that Islam has a lot of problems when it has to engage with the west. Even their "learned" priests put their foot in it every time they open their mouths. No wonder they try and lock the flock up in ghettoes.

But ghettoes can get a most one member elected (eg Keith Ellison). To have real political clout they need to spread widely into the community. But then the interaction with the western ideas start to work on the minds of the young and the women...

Posted by: Brett_McS at March 11, 2007 12:48 AM

Do any of the people calling for 4+ children have children of their own? I mean, a generation or two ago, that was the norm, but I honestly don't know how they did it. It is the most enjoyable, but the most tiring, job I have ever had. The people I know with 3+ children, it is Mom driving 1 to soccer practice, Dad driving 1 to swimming, and Auntie (or a family friend) driving 1 to band practice. I don't know who is at home to fix the meals, wash the clothes, mow the lawn, change the oil in the car, etc.

Anyways, instead of getting into a breeding contest with them, how about:
A) Stop using taxpayers' money to support their children, and
B) Let them breed to their hearts content in their own countries, not ours.

I disagree with D'Souza's argument that we should follow the Muslims' definition of morality, and I disagree with those who say that we should follow the Muslims' rate of breeding. I don't want us to be more like them, I want us to disassociate ourselves from them as much as humanly possible.

Posted by: special_guest at March 11, 2007 12:51 AM

I think i gonna get me a muswim edjucation, me
is immpressed win de fings they say...they knows
efferythink and offer reason for dem all.
Da dinosawrs weren`t drivven to extinction by
climate or udder catastrophies,they was jist baad
muswims.
De Aztics and Mayans was baad muswims too !
Fink about all de baad fings datt `appen , like
jewbonic plague , aids , musquittoes , diseese
war , erffquakes and tsuamees

Posted by: aladdinsane57 at March 11, 2007 12:53 AM

The Christian religious right in the US is no different. Remember Pat Robertson blaming hurricane Katrina on homosexuality?

http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/pat_robertson/

Check out the above link for some of the crap that comes out that "respected" religious leader's mouth.

Posted by: Yankinwaoz at March 10, 2007 07:15 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++

another Christian hater.........

when was the last time a Christian promised to murder you if you do not become a Christian........

2.2 billion Christians
1.3 billion muslimns.
153 million atheists
784 million non-religious
934 million Buddists
870 million Hindus
15 million Jews.

1.3 billion muslims and their allah have not been able to defeat 15 million Jews and God.......

Yankinwaoz.......grow up and be an adult...

The Texican.
A Christian in a Christian America.

Posted by: The Texican at March 11, 2007 1:15 AM

More blatant myth-making and lying to make Islam look bigger than it is. One in three or one in four births in Canada are Muslim, huh? Pure garbage. They are certainly outbreeding us, but we've got only 2% maximum Muslim population in Canada, (and a good 70% of that is in Ontario, mostly in Toronto), so I don't think that assessment is anywhere near accurate. By this article, though, you'd think there was a mosque going up on every corner already.

These idiots are the cult equivalent of the 70s glam rocker stuffing a sock down his pants. We're 900,000, no we're a billion, no we're 1.2 billion, er, actually we're now 1.6 billion, oh, now we're Eleventy Gajillion. What a joke. Just be nice if more people would see through these crap numbers and realize it's the age-old Muslim intimidation racket in action yet again.

And it'd be even nicer if we'd just shut the goddamn doors on Muslim immigration before we wind up with Dearborns all over North America. Wake the hell up, Ottawa and Washington!

Posted by: OutOfAqaba at March 11, 2007 1:48 AM

"But ghettoes can get a[t] most one member elected (eg Keith Ellison). To have real political clout they need to spread widely into the community."

Let this post stand as eternal proof of the electoral college's worth.

"One man, one vote" would allow one single state with a large Muslim population to outweigh the choice of several others. Perish the thought of that ever happening.

"(If you can't outbreed 'em, eat em!)"

Put another way: If you can't beat 'em, bite 'em.

Most disgusting of all is how for every intelligent Muslim concluding that all these natural disasters befalling the ummah around this world might have something to do with its eternal ill will towards humanity; There are two or three who are just as convinced that these misfortunes result from insufficient Islamic piety.

It will take more than just a few tsunamis to cure this particular problem.

Posted by: Zenster at March 11, 2007 3:14 AM

Why wouldn't Muslims want to come here? Like everyone else, they see the wealth and relative safety and order of Western countries. But what they bring with them is the Muslim mindset of conquest and rapine. Like their prophet, Mohammed, the thief and extortionist who enriched his band on the wealth and hard work of others, Muslims have dreams of luxury and indolence supplied by hardworking dhimmis.

And why shouldn't they? Their illiterate, blank-eyed, pregnant wives spend their days feeding complacently, secure in the quality of food, shelter, and medical care they could not obtain in their Islamic paradises. (After all, didn't the great Maimonides abjectly serve a buttock-hoisting prince of Islam?) Their strutting-rooster husbands, secure in the knowledge that they will not be prosecuted for polygamy, sedition, or incitement to murder, freely harass Western "whores" on the street, threaten Jews and kaffirs without compunction, and froth with bloodlust during Friday prayers.

They are already masters here. They imagine the supply of technology, medicine, and pleasure goods will last forever -- without the least bit of work on their part, as Mohammed promised and Allah intended.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at March 11, 2007 3:23 AM

Re: "Australian Muslim leader: Lack of faith in Islam causes drought, climate change and pollution"

This is the greatest explanation since the cow-fart theory.

Don't forget swine farts either :)

Man someone needs to contact Mr.Inconvenient-truth on this great explanation....maybe he'll change his name to Al-Hussein Muhammad Gore :)

Posted by: SoteriA at March 11, 2007 3:58 AM

Hang on, the mufti might be on to something here, Mecca is in the middle of the desert.
You can take the muslim out of the desert but you cannot take the desert out of the muslim...

Posted by: eloivsdiablo at March 11, 2007 4:05 AM

"Their strutting-rooster husbands, secure in the knowledge that they will not be prosecuted for polygamy, sedition, or incitement to murder, freely harass Western "whores" on the street, threaten Jews and kaffirs without compunction ..."

NOT in my neighborhood. EVER.

Posted by: Zenster at March 11, 2007 4:17 AM

Zenster, thanks for correcting my typing. I've got a bug in my keyboard - literally. It died there under a heavy barrage of touch typing but now the bits are causing havoc.

Posted by: Brett_McS at March 11, 2007 4:35 AM

'Don't forget swine farts either :)'

Much of the pollution caused by German heavy industry has diminished. Japan now leads the world in ball bearing production.

Posted by: western infidel at March 11, 2007 5:23 AM

Sorry folks. Cringe

Posted by: western infidel at March 11, 2007 5:30 AM

We should ask ourselves why muslims are on the one hand so desperate to enter the west, on the other so reluctant to leave the very system - islam - which they leave behind.
Hence, as Hugh already pointed it out, Muslim immigrants tend to reproduce the very same situation in their host country which made life unsupportable for them in the first place - by islamizing it.

If you look at the educational pattern, you'll notice that muslims as a group tend to have a lower than average education, in addition to their problems to adopt to the host country's language and customs.
Then compare that to the immigrants of Chinese or Indian
origin and you'll notice that below average education is not the general immigrant's problem.

Muslims in general basically put a triple burden on their host society: an unskilled workforce, prone to unemployment, traditions that cannot be reconciled with Western ethics and last not least a security burden as their communities tend to host an unknown number of radicals, supporting, planning and executing terror in the name of islam.

Banning muslim immigration might then begin by introducing minimum requirements to education and language knowledge.
Furthermore muslims shouldn't be entitled to the full range of social welfare, especially if they basically live off it from the very first day they enter Western soil.
Western welfare furthermore should be tied to the conduct. I guess that in Australia Sheikh Hilali is a reguralar recipient of social welfare? Stop it and you'll probably very quickly see him leave.
(To some European country or Canada..)

Regarding the immigration pattern we should honestly ask ourselves what makes muslims come to the west and not Saudi-Arabia. Saudi-Arabia has a booming economy, need of a huge foreign workforce and provides the perfect habitat for muslims.
Why so that even the Iraqees who basically just live around the corner prefer the infidel West to the fidel land of milk and honey?
Maybe - because in the land of milk and honey you are not entitled to any social benefits if you are not Saudi?
And maybe because in the hell on earth - the Western countries - you are entitled for your lifetime to any social benefit once you moved your body across the border - never mind your work skills, your disposition to work, your language skills, not even minor crimes nor your despise of the host country will stop the flow of state allowance...
With a lot of Western countries thinking of giving extra money to parents with a lot of children - you'll probably see Muslim imigration surge once more.
To stop it, we have to go the other way round, making it harder for mulims to tap our social welfare.

Posted by: flibustier at March 11, 2007 6:01 AM

This reads just like Mark Steyns book.

"The birth rate in the Western countries is going down. People are more interested in their careers . . . they don't want to have babies,"

We are all too busy working to prop-up a welfare state that encourages people to pray five times a day and plot our overthrow whilst bringing
up at least four kids.Thus multiplying the whole process at an alarming rate.

Something has gone wrong in the West and it's called demographics.

Posted by: raz at March 11, 2007 6:15 AM

LACK OF FAITH IN AKKAH?

Yeah, Right!

I suppose that's why Sado Arabia is such an oasis?

Oh, and don't forget all those prosperous and happy places where Sharia rules.

DUH!

Posted by: yonason at March 11, 2007 6:23 AM

"But ghettoes can get a most one member elected (eg Keith Ellison). "

What poll indicated that Ellison's support's rooted in the Ghetto? Or did you just assume that Blacks = Ghetto? Or that Ellison's sole support base is the African American community? It might be advisable to combat your own ignorance (Racism), before you tackle the superstitions of others.

As for the issue at hand: Yes, the Muslim belief that draughts and other natural events are somehow linked to human thoughts and "impiety" is irrational, inane and the product of an ignorant and superstitious worldview. However, numerous Evangelical Christian pronouncements in North America are equally irrational and stupid. Millions of Evangelical Christians also believe that natural events are sumptuous medieval mystery plays designed to chastise them for their "sins". It's high time for Christians and Muslims alike to discard their ignorant beliefs and embrace some very basic reality. No, Virginia and Aisha, draughts, floods, and supernovae are not caused by the thoughts and deeds of lowly bipedal primates. Such events are produced by physical law and not the capricious actions of deified elderly tribal chiefs. It's high time for Muslims and Christians alike to grow up and stop looking to ignorant Bronze Age Suras and Scriptures to explain the workings of the Cosmos.

Posted by: ZanzibarAtheist at March 11, 2007 7:44 AM

Borg,

Can you please provide JW readers with evidence supporting your claim that replacement fertility rate is closer to your estimate of 4 than the standard 2.1 or 2.2 that is commonly reported.

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at March 11, 2007 8:12 AM

IF drought is punishment from Allah for being an infidel, then Allah must really hate Muslims. Look at all the natural disaster that have occured in Iran,Pakistan and Indonesia.

Posted by: darrinh at March 11, 2007 8:15 AM

It is strange that with all this debate, we forget that US still supports Pakistan which is the hot bed of islamic terrorism. No issues in having 4 babies in Pakistan since the state is aided and funded by the US. Immigration of muslims into western countries should be stopped immediately!!!

Posted by: ThomSeb at March 11, 2007 8:18 AM

Muslim cleric sheik Mohammed Omran blames non-Muslims for the world's environmental problems, and then advocates that Muslims contribute to massive overpopulation. Overpopulation is one of the most significant factors contributing to those environmental problems.

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at March 11, 2007 8:21 AM

These islamists are a joke but do u think its a coincidence they have infiltrated all western societies???

The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population.

They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat:
1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewa

Economics:

(none)

Medicine:

1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad

*******************************************************************************************************

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population.

They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 – Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L. Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 – Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

The Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non-Muslims.

The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics. The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems. Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel's part, the following two sentences really say it all:

If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.

If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.

Posted by: xmale at March 11, 2007 8:50 AM

How stupid & primitive can you get? However, let Muslims expose themselves to such a degree that even the most laid back Infidel realises the
truth about Islam.IT IS A BACKWARD STONE AGE DEATH CULT.

Posted by: Morgane at March 11, 2007 9:13 AM

I reckon we can all laugh at how primitive and stupid and ignorant Muslims are but what does it say about us westerners that we appear to be poised to lose our own civilization to them merely because we seem incapable of just saying NO? No - you can't come here. No - we will not respect your vile "religion" which calls for our own murder or subjugation. No - we're not going to provide you with a bunch of welfare freebies so that you can focus on outbreeding us in our own countries so you can reduce us all to dhimmitude. Seems to me we're the ones who are truly stupid. Some of the most educated people I know refuse to hear one negative thing about Islam. So what was all that education for if they can't use it to see clearly about THE most important issue of our day? It was worthless.

Posted by: Caroline at March 11, 2007 10:22 AM

What ?!!! I thought Islam was 'the fastest growing religion in the world'. And still things are getting worse climactically ? Something doesn't add up in the claim that environmental trouble is inversely proportional to Islamic observance .
(I don't subscribe to either claim myself but for the sake of argument ...)

Posted by: WeatherPermitting at March 11, 2007 10:32 AM

Khayber Oasis-

I am not a statistician but I have closely observed many, many families. I have also read "Freakonomics" and I know that many people who calculate these figures have no common sense when they come up with the variables used in their calculations.

Look around you. How many families are actually growing? Even the ones with two children do not grow. If you only take the inital family it may on the outside look so, but you must also take the family that married into that family when you figure it.

Re-read my reasons above.

The 2.1 figure does NOT take into consideration all the things that are happening to families in the world today. The 2.1 assumes that each person who grows up to adulthood will have children. This is false thinking. The 4 children that I am talking about is the number of children that people who are willing and able to have children must have to make up for the others who can not or will not have children, for the reasons stated above, if a country wants it's population to remain stable. Governments must have at a minimum stable population or they will continue to import. There are only so many immigrants available to import in this world and most of them are muslim. What can a country do? No matter how much the indeginous scream about stopping immigration the truth is that it is in the interest of countries to grow, not alarmingly so, but grow they must. People are power.

I will use the example of my former neighbors who had four children. One child died in a car accident at sixteen. One is autistic. One is married but has fertility issues and has not been able to conceive. One has married and has three children, one autistic. That family, even with four children is shrinking. Two children married, and so four grandparents have three grandchildren between them and two grandparents will have none (the inlaws of the one who cannot conceive).

A similar pattern is in my own extended family. One married someone who was divorced and unable to have more children, so he is childless. One married someone divorced and only had one child because the spouse already had two. One never married and is childless. Two divorced after one child and never remarried.

When I look around I see this same pattern in most of the families of my friends and neighbors. Autism, car accidents, infertility issues, homosexuality, being a player and never getting married, and just thinking one child is plenty for the good of the planet.

special guest- How they did it a was not taking their kids to all those practices. Or kids close together so they all went to the same things at the same time. Big kids were their own "teams".

I'm not saying it's easy. Or in these days affordable.

But then neither will the war be that will happen if the immigration isn't stopped.

Posted by: Borg at March 11, 2007 10:36 AM

Excellent post xmale, the Jewish people have been a incredible blessing to civilized culture through out history...despite all the propaganda or anti-semitic voices trying to make some bad examples the norm to prop up the nasty stereo-types & prejustices. Count me is one of the many here in the U.S.A that stand with Jews everywhere & Israel against the Islam-o-fascist hoards.

Posted by: SoteriA at March 11, 2007 10:50 AM

Oh, and these patterns are not really new. When I looked back at my family geneology the pattern was there also, but those ancestors who did have kids had at least six kids so the families still grew. Personal example here of an ancestor from late 1800's - Out of six kids who lived to adulthood two had no children, ( one couldn't conceive, one hurt in an accident,) one had one child then divorced, the remaining three from this family each had six or seven kids.

If they had stopped with the first two the family would have been finished.

Posted by: Borg at March 11, 2007 11:25 AM

xmale - Jewish families value education.
Muslim families value martyrs.

Posted by: Borg at March 11, 2007 11:42 AM

Lack of faith is a big problem. The trouble with the Sheikh's analysis is that Islam is itself one of the biggest apostasies from truth that our unhappy planet has ever seen.

Posted by: Kepha at March 11, 2007 12:21 PM

A lone voice in the wilderness:

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/11/christian-democrat-leader-fred-nile-calls-for-a-halt-to-muslim-immigration/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 11, 2007 1:17 PM

There are a lot of variables involved with predicting population growth, so many it is impossible to tell how it will all work out.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/users/login.php?story_id=3377&URL=http://www.foreignpolicy.com
My prediction, lots of young angry males looking for girls. Now, who has more than their fair share of women? Polygamists beware.
Examine WWII Japan, the kamikaze while it terrorized us it was in the end an ineffective strategy. They eventually ran out of quality pilots, their bonsai attacks, failures that they were no doubt diminished the pool of quality men that could be drawn from for reproduction. The result, a much less militant Japan today but one that is not at all capable of the feats of their forefathers.
Europe… could their predicament stem from WWI where they wiped out an entire generation of the best of the best? How badly can you diminish the gene pool and still recover?
America…through both WWI, II our casualties were small in comparison, we didn’t wipe out the best we had, on the contrary they came home and reproduced.
Islamist world, I don’t need to go into how many problems they have, poor health care, inbreeding, suicidal youths, to name a few.
I am not sure which is more beneficial, quality or quantity but it looks like we are going to find out.

Posted by: tgusa at March 11, 2007 1:37 PM

"Zenster, thanks for correcting my typing. I've got a bug in my keyboard - literally. It died there under a heavy barrage of touch typing but now the bits are causing havoc."

No problem, Brett_McS. Your point was to valuable to let anything interfere with it. The electoral college's elegant design prohibits an assault by sheer numbers. Those seeking to influence politics must spread out into many of the major communities.

Methinks that should Muslims bring their barbaric practices to the far corners of Middle America, quite a few of them might begin showing up in city morgues at what would be (for them) an alarming rate.

Posted by: Zenster at March 11, 2007 2:10 PM

The list of "Muslim" Nobel Prize winners is wrong. Peter Brian Medawar was of British-Christian Lebanese ancestry. Ferid Mourad is an American of Albanian Muslim ancestry who converted to Christianity. James Elias Corey is also of Christian Arab ancestry.

The Muslims are trying to pad their numbers with Christian Arabs or people with Muslim names who have converted to Christianity. Don't fall for it.

Posted by: Suzan at March 11, 2007 2:45 PM

xmale says:"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.

If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. "

this is one of the best sum up i have heard in years. Long live Israel!

Posted by: Birbhadra at March 11, 2007 3:28 PM

susan_p, Brett_McS:

I agree but none of this matters squat.

Is Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton aware of the truth about Islam? Probably not. And the same could be said President Bush, Tony Blair, Senator Obama, Senator McCain, Sarkozy, Angela Merkel or much of the journalists, editors.

The people that matter still beleive that there is a reasonable Islam.

Until we lobby, lobby, lobby and desseminate this information - and it has to be absolutely compelling - not much will happen.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at March 11, 2007 4:07 PM

To UK Infidel Lover

All I can suggest is that someone hands these politicians a Koran and show all the intolerance anti-human and religious and racist claims the writers of this book have contributed. Then ask them how and why today and history shows such a pattern that it is infedelfobic, sexist, anti-Jewish and pro killing to bring Mohammad message across. This to show some logic that maybe it's not as peaceful as they guess. They think Muslims are Buddhists by nature they are not. But as the exposure of the Koran is forbidden this as a cover up of free expression to unravel it's horrors people will go along with the hysterics it causes of defaming the religion.
It's pure anti-democracy because it has tied all the knots to expose it's true brainwashed agenda it covers its nations and people's with.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at March 11, 2007 5:03 PM

Hmmmmmmmmm interesting theory.

However, I have read an article that states the following:

"The hardest-hit continents are likely to be Africa and Asia, with major harm also coming to small islands and some aspects of ecosystems near the poles. North America, Europe and Australia are predicted to suffer the fewest of the harmful effects."

So let's see....

The nations historically Christian are set to suffer the fewest harmful effects whilst the countries historically ISLAMIC are set to suffer the greatest.

Hmmmmmmm

Posted by: The Goobs at March 11, 2007 6:11 PM

At the rate they blow each other up - they need to overbreed just to stay still!

Posted by: rookie at March 11, 2007 6:50 PM

"So don't you think, Muslim brothers and sisters, we've got a bit of an opportunity here? They're not having babies any more. So what if, instead, we have the babies?"

Islam is for nit-wits.

Stop more Muslim immigration NOW!

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at March 11, 2007 7:56 PM

The Numbers Game – Muslims versus Non-Muslims.

I’ve been reading at this site for a while and I have heard people argue that the West should have lots of kids to beat the Muslims. Frankly, I don’t think it can be done.

We can’t outbreed them because we can’t and won’t do what they do to their girls and women. Even if we banned contraception and abortion (or, more positively, made serious efforts to make our societies much more baby-friendly, woman-friendly, family-friendly) we’d still fall behind. Why? Because we’re not prepared to abandon monogamy, or a medically appropriate marrying age for girls, or free choice of marriage partner (which tends to mean that we marry a bit later, depending on whom we meet and when) or couples being able to space their babies more than twelve months apart (ask a midwife what happens to a woman’s pelvic floor, and her risk of catastrophic postpartum haemorrhage, if she does an Anne Donne and has nine children in nine years).

Ladies – this is OUR business. How many of us women who post here, have children? Grandchildren? How many do we have? And why? What about our relatives and friends and co-workers? IS it that everybody is selfish and immoral or is infertile because they had STDs or abortions? None of those reasons accounts for the people and families that I know who have no children, or few children. To try to bribe or threaten people into having children won’t work in a free society. Who wants to have kids just to keep General Motors afloat? Or for cannon fodder? Stuff that for a motive. In our society we should be having children for the same reason we make music, dance, write poetry, tell stories, plant trees – because life is beautiful and creation is good and children are a gift of grace, not a right or a possession or a tool – or a weapon.

Islam – viewing women and children as a means of conquest and domination – profoundly dehumanises them and is ultimately far more anti-life than the West. We have to defeat them by other means – such as not allowing our societies to be parasitised. If they can’t support their population in their own countries on their own resources and by their own production their boom will soon bust.

By the way – does anybody here have any information on whether and how fast HIV is spreading in the Muslim world? My own guess is that given the lousy public health practices, sexual double standard, the hypocrisy, the hidden homosexuality, the sexual slavery and prostitution, the abuse of servant/ slave girls from the Philippines and Africa and the high incidence of rape and sexual abuse of children, not to mention the probable rejection of safe sex practices and the all-pervasive culture of shame, self-deception, deceit and denial, HIV should be rampant. Islam’s apparent demographic ascendancy may prove to be a brief illusion.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at March 11, 2007 10:15 PM

Lack of faith cause drought. I suppose that this is the reason that Saudia Arabia ia nearly all dessert. It is about time that this person extracted his head out of his anal orifice and stopped using it as a bum plug.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at March 12, 2007 5:15 AM

dumbledoresarmy-

Welcome. And good thoughts.

I agree with your points. I also don't think having children "to beat the muslims" is the answer. Stopping muslim immigration IS the answer. I hope you don't think I want a "baby war" with muslims. I don't and that is not my point. I DO think slightly bigger families would be a good thing, nothing to do with islam.

I do realize though that immigration will not stop unless families can sustain the birth rate needed to prevent immigration. Even if a country allows itself to shrink in population, (which I always used to think would be a good thing but not anymore), eventually it will get overrun by the bursting population around it looking for an outlet. Just saying stay out will not work if there aren't people to make it so.

An alternative would be to get them to reduce their birth rate or encourage them to kill each other off in large numbers. Would anyone do that? There would be a lot of screaming against either choice.

OT on your name, BTW, I think Rowling's book is a metaphore for what is happening. If you read the philosophy of the deatheaters, they state they are willing to sacrifice their children for the cause.

Posted by: Borg at March 12, 2007 9:34 AM

And muslims don't allow HIV statistics to be collected, but the case in Libya makes me think you are correct about HIV being prevalent.

Posted by: Borg at March 12, 2007 9:35 AM

IS it that everybody is selfish and immoral or is infertile because they had STDs or abortions?

No one here said or implied this. Except the muslims.

Posted by: Borg at March 12, 2007 9:53 AM

kramk1

Posted by: highlander1965 at March 12, 2007 10:52 AM

What Muslims are doing is extreme child abuse. Having more children JUST so they can increase their 'army' is sick & twisted, and I don't want to be a part of that game. Having more children simply to keep up with The Muslims would be stooping to their level of immorality and depravity. Never!

I vote for sending them back to their mothership and to STOP IMMIGRATION YESTERDAY.

Posted by: champ at March 12, 2007 1:17 PM

I second that vote.

Posted by: Borg at March 12, 2007 8:51 PM

In our society we should be having children for the same reason we make music, dance, write poetry, tell stories, plant trees – because life is beautiful and creation is good and children are a gift of grace, not a right or a possession or a tool – or a weapon.

That's one of the most beautiful things I've read in a long time. How true. You've pointed out the stark difference between the way we view life and children and the miserable, hateful way Islam views them. They'll profess to be very family-oriented and to love children. But they are deluded. All the countless examples of horrific treatment of women and children by Muslims is proof they have no idea what love is, or what a real family is about. Not a clue.

Posted by: feralee at March 12, 2007 9:50 PM