These islamics are surely scum of the worst kind.

Worthy of death.

Not worthy of remaining alive in Afghanistan.

Posted by: dgene at March 18, 2007 8:12 AM

Holy Lord God Almighty,
Please help us and give us understanding into these things. The 'LAW',(pre Jesus), is being practiced even today.
Jesus could bring balance, so let Jesus come into these mysteries, and be the solution.
Praise God!!

Posted by: eagerbeaver at March 18, 2007 9:40 AM

This is terrorism at it's finest. Of course we don't have that here in America.

Posted by: AMartinez at March 18, 2007 9:51 AM

And Rosie says that we took away Khalid Sheikh Muhammad's humanity!!!! There are those that complain that we don't provide Halal meat to Muslim prisoners!!!

Posted by: DavidE at March 18, 2007 10:04 AM

Before 9-11, l was watching a program on CBS about this Afgan girl who had escaped her country, and she was in Canada telling her sad story about the murders and torture women in Afganistan for just wanting to learn to read.
l know there must be many Afgan people who do want freedom, and l dont mind our governments bringing a some sort of freedoms to them, and it will come, but too slowly for those poor souls who lost their ears and noses, how sad. islamist facists fear the most when their people have a taste of freedom , as they know their hold on them with this black death cult of islam will lose out. Where is CAIR on these despictable acts on those poor people.. oh but its muslims maiming and killing muslims, that dont count?

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 18, 2007 10:09 AM

Afghanistan is often held out as the "success" (as opposed to what even Bush loyalists cannot deny is the mess in Tarbaby Iraq) story. It is true that al Qaeda was attacked and the Taliban drvien out. But Islam wasn't driven out. Islam wasn't driven out of Afghanistan, nor Pakistan, and the Taliban, who are simply the Truest Believers in Islam as the Answer to Everything, found refuge and support and were re-supplied in Pakistan (Pakistan is not the same thing, though the Americans keep confusing the two, as General Pervez Musharraf, and he is so meretricious in his dealings with the Americans, whose money and military equipment he wants to keep on receiving in such fantastic quantitities).

Meanwhile, Karzai is amiable and weak, and his government, and all the local governments, as corrupt as they can be -- and will remain corrupt, and if you are an American taxpayer, you might not exactly wish to have your money flowing into the abyss of Afghanistan, enriching this or that local Muslim crook, just as so many Iraqis made off with a grand total of billions in American taxpayers' money, and are now living the high life in Beirut, or more likely, Paris and London.

Pakistan, our "staunch ally," has in effect invaded, through the Taliban, its neighbor Afghanistan. The spectacle of the warlords flaunting the money they have taken or been given, has not been edifying, and the corruption that naturally accompanies the public-works projects and dispensing of dough by the Americans merely increases popular resentment, and makes people who have short memories long again for the incorruptible (incorruptible, yes, but also intolerable, as we see it, but as not all pious Afghani Muslims see it) Taliban. This is not a problem to be "solved" but a permanent state: a Muslim country will always find itself tending toward Islam, and only the strongest and most ruthless of leaders -- Ataturk, in Turkey, or Bourguiba, in Tunisia, will be able to constrain Islam long enough for enough secular forces to be developed who can then, holding onto power, continue to constrain Islam -- and even then, only by employing methods that Westerners would never permit themselves to employ.

There are seveal Pakistans. There is the one-man Pakistan of General Musharraf, with whom the Americans have idiotically thrown in their lot. There is the Pakistan on parade, of the well-off anglophone upper-class (in strictly Pakistani terms) well-spoken smoothies, such as "
Haqqani, and they have a network, and more than a few have managed to land jobs all over academic America, and to present their Islam apologetics to unwary American students as the Good and Moderate Islam, the True Face of Islam, and to further disarm the unwary, they denounce "terrorism" (my, that's an easy thing to do, why it takes nothing at all, especially if you never quite define "terrorism" or such phrases as "innocent civilians"). And then there is the Permanently Primitive Pakistan, the Pakistan of the masses, and the masses make up 95% of the population, and it is those masses that will decide the fate of Pakistan, and the masses make up the rank-and-file (and even manyh of the generals) in the Pakistani Army, and the masses are those who will decide to vote, or not, for Radcliffe-educated Pinky Bhutto, or vote, or note, for this or that smooth-talking outwardly westernized cricketer Imran Khan (deeply re-islamized). Yet, in the West, policies are made based on the outwardly westernized, anglophone elite, because "they speak our language." Actualaly, that's it -- they only "speak our language" in the literal sense, but underneath is a completely different understanding of Pakistan, and of its interests, and of what people in Pakistan will want.

Even if Musharraf were not so meretricious, the real Pakistan, the Permanently Primitive Pakistan, will go on hiding Al Qaeda members, and invading Afghanistan (seen in Pakistan as a possible ally of Hindu India, believe it or not, unless it is kept firmly under true Islamic rule, and not allowed to stray or sway, and that is where the Taliban comes in) by means of its obvious proxy, the Taliban.

What is to be done? Stop supporting Pakistan. Stop giving it planes. Stop relieving its debt. Stop giving it economic aid or allowing it to export its textiles. Bring Pakistan, or threaten to, to its knees unless there is a change in its policy toward exporting the Jihad, to Afghanistan, to India (and not only Kashmir), and for that matter, to Great Britain where Pakistanis (British citizens they may be, but Pakistanis they remain in all important senses) live and then go back and forth to Pakistan for Muslim inspiritation, and training in all kinds of Jihad-related activities). Stop thinking that in order to prevent Afghanistan from turning into that fearsome thing, a "haven for Al Qaeda," again, it is necessary to keep tens of thousands of troops on the ground, or pour in billions of dollars in aid. That aid, all that Western money, simply is a source of corruption, and that corruption, in turn, feeds the resentment that causes the Taliban to find new support. Do nothing or very little. Don't build new roads which will only make it possible for the Taliban, or for others, to move about the country. Keep it as primitive as it is, and if the locals wish to do something about it, let them do it on their own, with Muslim funds and Muslim exertion. Anything else is rolling that Sisysphean rock, right up the mountains of Tora Bora. It is too expensive, too distracting, one more example of not realizing that Al Qaeda doesn't need Afghanistan to "regroup" or in order to train;

Why not?

Because al Qaeda, and a thousand other groups and groupuscules, have all of Pakistan. No, they have all the world.

To focus on a particular Muslim country, to send in Western troops and spend vast sums of money, in order to build up the country (as the locals keep grinning and saying yes, yes, more aid, more aid, more aid, that will do it, more aid) in the hope that this will do anything of use to the Western world --when it will only weaken the West, divert its attention from such matters as the islamization of Western Europe, and certainly prevent or get in the way of the idea that the best way to deal with the Jihad is, on all fronts, using all the instruments available, to weaken the Camp of Islam: to divide and demoralize that camp, where there are ethnic and sectarian and economic fissures, and to force Muslims to realize -- if Infidels themselves first show that they realize -- that the political, economic, social, intellectual and moral failures of Islamic states and peoples is a direct result of Islam itself.

This can and should and must be done. the Big Mess in Tarbaby Iraq, the Little Mess in Afghanistan, are both messy and messianic diversions.

Posted by: Hugh at March 18, 2007 10:52 AM

test

Posted by: patriot10 at March 18, 2007 11:18 AM

Well another addition to the Koran text today:

4:31 allah said let not your ears be troubled nor your noses in places of the infidel. For from the exhaust of the truck of supplies is the euphoria of betrayal and the agony of defeat.

4:32 Let the prophet warn that the knife is quicker but the chopping off of noses and ears is sicker. So while a bird in the hand is worth a nose and an ear. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow Islam maims more than the sum of all parts.

(No that is not the Koran, but it is utilized to make the point that Muhammed as an illiterate trader heard Hebrew and New Testament Scripture and brought it back under the sword to Arabs in his own twisted version.
As pointed out earlier on this site, music is outlawed in Islam and yet the Muslims all sing in the call to prayers. Muslims take what they want to suit their purpose of the moment and change the Koran.
That should be something more evil than truck drivers, little girls in schools and ice cream sellers, but Islam has it's own write your own text and is why the Koran has absolutely no meaning for Muslims in quoting the violence to them in it.
Muslims don't read the Koran. They use the Koran for selfish purposes. It has no meaning to them but a license to enslave women, pedophilia, multiple wives and murder.
Islam is not defined by the Koran but is defined by the heart of the beholder and they form the Koran to fit the place they are going.
Cut off ears and noses? Well is it in the Koran? Yes.......Where? I don't know but it must be.

That is the answer every Muslim will give. Islam and the Koran is their excuse in life.)

Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 18, 2007 12:24 PM

True Face of Islam, alright. Noseless and earless.

There seems to be so much money going down so many black holes, couldn't we utilize some of that fundage to get these Afghanis some reconstructive surgery?

Posted by: freedomschool at March 18, 2007 12:34 PM

Nothing but animals!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: OLD SARGE at March 18, 2007 3:42 PM

Slightly off topic, but very much related. I am watching that pompous ass Ollie North do a special on jihad. He conveniently never mentions the Iran Contra arms deal with the jihadist in which he had a vital role. Don't get me wrong, I was pro-contra as I was in that war.
But what chaps my ass more is how North swallowed the "moderate" muslim line. He asked the same old tired questions and swollowed the same old tired lies.

Posted by: TexasInfidel at March 18, 2007 4:54 PM

This has come up before here at Jihadwatch, but I think it always deserves notice:

from the news article above:
"in the eastern province of Nuristan..."

"Nuristan" means, in Persian, "Land of Light" and is intended to refer, by the Afghans, to the supposed "light" of islam. This is a perversion of reality, as demonstrated by the very actions of its pious muslim residents.

This area was conquered, in a classic, if small scale, Jihad, by the Amir of Afghanistan in the late 19th century. The area had been known as Kafiristan, a reference to its inhabitants who were non-muslim Pagans and therefore known as Kafirs, by the muslims who surrounded them, and by outsiders who conversed with those muslims.

from Chapter 1 of "Men of Influence in Nuristan" by Schuyler Jones (Seminar press 1974) pages 4-18, quoting Jones and various British sources of the time:

"In May 1888, the Amir, speaking in durbar [a court assembly], threatened to invade Kafiristan if the Kafir elders did not come to him and acknowledge his suzerainty. Such threats had been heard before and would be heard again. The Amir made use of every opportunity to grant audiences to Kafirs, to urge them to acept islam, and to send them away with handsome presents. At the same time the Amir had ordered his troops to construct a road suitable for pack animals and gun carriages from Jalalabad up the Kunar Valley toward Chagha Sarai...in February 1890, speaking of the Kafirs, The Amir emarked, 'I will send at first a messenger to them during the spring, informing them that if they become willingly my subjects, it will be better for them, and wherever the Kafirs become Muhammadan of their own free will [remember: there is no compulsion in religion!] I shall not establish any military station there; and I shall appoint Khassadars and build forts in those villages, the inhabitants of which will remain Kafirs, and will agree to pay the 'Jazia', but if the Kafirs do nat agree to the proposals made by the messenger, I will depute my troops and tribesmen during the spring to make them my subjects'... 2 July 1895: 'Reports have been received from various sources to the effect that a strong Afghan force under the command of the Sipah Salah has entered Kafiristan...November 1895: 'The Amir has also ordered that no terms shall be accepted from the Kafirs short of absolute submission and conversion to islam. He has prohibited the killing of Kafir children under seven years of age, but no Kafir above that age will be shown any mercy who refuses to embrace Muhammadanism'...the Afghan Government announced from Kabul that 'during recent fighting in Kafiristan it is understood that 10,000 Kafirs were killed by troops under Sipah Salar Ghulam Haidar Khan; and that the casualties among the Afghan troops amounted to about 600 men'...A report of January 1896 brings news of the arrival in Kabul of 700 camels 'laden with plundered property' and, upon seeing this, the Amir commented that 'the Kafirs were independent for 2000 years, and that it was he who had reduced them to submission' [with assistance of British weapons -- the British were interested in a strong Afghanistan as a buffer with the Russian Empire]...Five thousand Kafirs were sent to Kabul, the first of many as part of a massive relocation scheme. Carpenters and masons were sent from Kabul to supervise the building of mosques in each of the conquered villages. The Amir began to recruit mullas to serve in the newly acquired territories and charged them with the responsibility of teaching the people islam. Methodically, the Amir's Commander took hostages from each village -- elders or the sons of elders for the most part-- to keep the peace of the conquered areas....[February 1896:] The fighting in western Kafiristan had, by this time, produced 6000 prisoners, hostages, and refugees. These were brought together in Panjsher and subsequently allocated to village maliks in different parts of Afghanistan [as chattel]. At the same time the Amir issued orders that 1000 families of nomad Safis, 1000 families of Laghmani nomads, and 500 families of Persian-speaking 'kuchi' nomads were to be sent to Kafiristan and settled there. They were to be exempted from all taxes for a year...in April 1896 Ghulam Haidar informed the Amir that some 2500 Kafir men, women and children, who had been taken as hostages, refused to repeat the kalema. The Amir ordered them to be sent to Kabul where they were put in a detention camp at Aliabad outside the city. The Amir arranged for mullas to teach them Persian and for them to also receive instruction in the muslim prayers...'8th of June, 1897:...the Lutdeh Kafirs have rebelled against the Amir...The cause of the rising is not known, but a report ascribes it to the deportation to Kabul of boys and girls for immoral purposes, and a demand for fresh hostages to take the place of some who had died at Kabul...March 1898: 'All is reported quiet in Kafiristan. The people, however, are said to be generally discontented, and though they outwardly profess Muhammadanism, they still worship idols in secret..."

Besides being killed or deported to other places in Afghanistan, thousands of Kafirs fled across the Durand line to Indian Chitral, where their descendants have been and are currently being islamized by the pakistanis.

Genocide by Jihad.

Posted by: del at March 18, 2007 5:23 PM

Be careful who you collaborate with, for sure. They do mean buiness!

Posted by: J. Fever at March 18, 2007 5:34 PM

Filled with the 'Mohly Spirit' when they did this barbaric evil deed.

DEVILS

Posted by: The Goobs at March 18, 2007 5:40 PM

Will there ever be peace in that part of the world? They desperately need someone, a Mandela, a Ghandi, someone there!

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 5:44 PM

Read that quote above (posted by "del") from the documents collected by the estimable Schuyler Jones, whose work on Afghanistan, Tibet, and other places out of the mainstream has been so important. Kafiristan became islamized as Nuristan, little more than a century ago, and now that former land of the Infidels, that had withstood Islam until the British came and armed the Amir (similarly, in French West Africa, the French had helped the Muslims to islamize tribes, thinking it would help bring "stability" which the French favored).

Posted by: Hugh at March 18, 2007 5:55 PM

EXACTLY! Thank you, Hugh. Imperialism, like karma, comes back on ya! Sooner or later, you will pay the piper. Deal.

WJLB 97.9 FM

Posted by: J. Fever at March 18, 2007 6:10 PM

Thank you Hugh. del makes some very good points (a paragraph break or two wouldn't hurt though).

Arming the enemy of your enemy, so to speak, is not always a foolproof policy.

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 6:14 PM

Hook,

Sorry about the lack of paragraph breaks. The long paragraph is a series of appended quotes from the book by Schuyler Jones. Those are not my words.

Also, from a short biography of Amir Abdur Rahman Khan: Amir of Afghanistan (c. 1844-1901), at the modern website afghansite.com:

"...The amir received an annual subsidy from the British government of 18-1/2 lakhs of rupees. He was allowed to import munitions of War. In 1896 he adopted the title of Tia-ul-hlillat-ud Din (Light of the nation and religion); and his zeal for the cause of Islam induced him to publish treatises on Jehad..."

My understanding is that 1 lakh was approximately 10,000 Pounds, Sterling. Not small change. And it went along with a weapons factory in Kabul which produced rifles and cannons for the Afghan army. Those were the weapons which crushed the Kafirs on the wrong side of the Durand line.

Abdur Rahman Khan is practically lionized in this biography, as a great man: "His zeal for the cause of islam...Jehad". Notice how the size of the subsidy he received is emphasized as proof of his greatness. From the Afghan and muslim viewpoint, subsidies and tribute that they receive are not generous gifts which earn, in return, gratitude. Instead subsidies and gifts are understood as tribute. Or Jizya. Then and now.

Blecch.

And we [US and allies] are currently subsidizing Musharraf in Pakistan and Karzai in Afghanistan.

Just disgusting.

Posted by: del at March 18, 2007 6:25 PM

del--

The passage you posted above about Kafiristan-Nuristan can now also be found at www.newenglishreview.com. I hope you don't mind that there you are identified simply as a "reader."

Posted by: Hugh at March 18, 2007 7:31 PM

Hugh,

Great...To be clear: The few short comments within brackets(e.g. [remember: there is no compulsion in religion!]) are my words, rather than Jones'.

Posted by: del at March 18, 2007 8:53 PM

The definitive work on the Kafirs of Kafiristan was published in 1896, "The Kafirs of the Hindu Kush" by George Scott Robertson, who was the British Political Agent in Gilgit, and made several trips to Kafiristan in 1889-1895.

A description of the Kafirs of Chitral can also be found as chapter 9 ("On the Trail of Dionysus in Asia") in Fosco Maraini's "Where Four Worlds Meet Hindu Kush" (Harcourt , Brace and World 1964 -- translated from Italian). Maraini visited Chitral in 1959 as part of a mountaineering expedition. His book includes a chapter two titled, "Interlude on Islam", which is insightful, if overly sympathetic in my reading, towards islam. Maraini was, I think, a generous man towards most that he came across.

A quote of his that I like (page 40) is: "The efforts of European scholars to frame a terminology capable of translating the fundamental concepts of shariah into Occidental values are doomed to failure in advance. Trying to introduce our basic juridical assumptions concerning public, private, constitutional or canon law into the fortified redoubt of the Islamic endocosm is rather like trying to grow fruit in a bookcase, or force steel cubes up one's nostrils. The converse process is, of course, equally difficult....for the simple reason that we are dealing with entities that never match exactly, but leave incompatible loose ends on both sides..."

Its even more tangential (sorry, but whut the hey), but this last sentence is part of what allows muslims to proselytize in the west, and convert people, who often do not actually understand what they are doing, to islam. And it is partly why so many of our intellectual and political elite do not "get" islam, but instead continually, and naively, project their (our) values and views onto muslims and islam. Some do "get" islam, to some extent, but even describing islam as a totalitarian political movement, as I do, is only to "get" islam, to some extent.

Also striking in Maraini's chapter is his statement on page 43: "When we examine the jihad, or Holy War, we find that men's attitude to it has varied a great deal throughout history. Today it is, on the whole, regarded as a dead letter. But we should not forget the deep and terrible emotional impact which the sound of the cry 'Jihad' can -and may yet again [his words]- have on Moslems in special circumstances..."

Posted by: del at March 18, 2007 9:45 PM

Those quotes from Fosco Maraini, one of those fabulous creatures from what appears now to be a different world, are wonderful. How do you find such stuff? And I detect a certain similarity between Fosco Maraini, with his simmilar interest in Tibet and in odd peoples (the Ainu, or as they used to be known, the hairy Ainu), and Schuyler Jones. Are you an ethnographer yourself, professional or amateur?

I have Maraini's book on Japan, and for some reason I have a memory of several books by his daughter Dacia Maraini being on a shelf somewhere, with Montale no doubt coming between her and her long-time lover Moravia (Pincherle), but I'm sure I haven't read them.

Those quotes of Maraini show a complete grasp of the problem -- it's something that Bernard Lewis has also written about, and it's probably the thing that needs somehow to be read, recognized, even if not fully felt along the pulse. In other words, we who have not studied Islam for decades can nonetheless figure out, or accept the authority of those who have, or of those who have been keen direct observers (such as Fosco Maraini)that the categories of Islam do not easily translate, nor do the cateogries of Western "religions" translate easily. It's a different thing.

Meanwhile, the next time I buy a bottle of Salaparuta, it's going to be with Maraini's paragraphs on Islam more distinctly in mind.

Posted by: Hugh at March 19, 2007 12:01 AM

"When we examine the jihad, or Holy War, we find that men's attitude to it has varied a great deal throughout history. Today it is, on the whole, regarded as a dead letter. But we should not forget the deep and terrible emotional impact which the sound of the cry 'Jihad' can -and may yet again [his words]- have on Moslems in special circumstances..."
-- from a remark by Fosco Maraini in his book on the Hindu Kush, published in 1959

Jihad as a doctrine and duty never died. Its practice fell into desuetude because the Muslims were too weak. They had no money. They were largely ignorant villagers, struggling to survive. They had primitive weapons.

All this has changed in the last 50 years.

They have received, since 1973 alone, some ten trillion dollars in unmerited and unearned oil revenues. That money has been put to use, and one of its main uses has been to further the goal of Muslims everywhere: to spread Islam, and to strengthen the umma al-islamiyya, everywhere.

They have been allowed to migrate, by the millions, deep within the countries of Western Europe and even, to a much lesser extent, North America. That is, without any real attention being paid to Islam by the governments of Infidel lands, millions of people who regard themselves as now living in Dar al-Harb, living in the Lands of the Infidels that by right belong to Allah and to the best of people, the Believers, but still currently in the hands of those Infidels -- living behind what they have been taught to regard, and many do regard, as enemy lines.

Finally, the kinds of conditions -- of isolated villagers, nominal Muslims who knew very little beyond the Five Pillars of daily ritual (shehada, salat, zakat, Ramadan, hajj), and who are hardly thinking of the world of Infidels or of Infidels much at all -- has been superseded by a world where first audiocassettes, and then videocassettes and satellite television channels and the Internet spread Islamic progaganda into the most remote places, and in those same villages visited fifty years ago by Fosco Maraini, the word "Jihad" is picked up, by broadcasts, round the clock.

The doctrine never died. But it was put back to use, and with a vengeance, because of the three developments I have listed above. And all of this has happened within fifty -- no, within the past thirty years.

An incredible event, as incredible, for the world, as have been the astonishing changes in the world's climate in the past few decades.

And, the amelioration of both problems requires in part the very same solution: a sharp decrease in the use of fossil fuels, but especially oil and gas.

Posted by: Hugh at March 19, 2007 12:10 AM

Hugh,

Fosco Maraini's book, "Where Four Worlds Meet Hindu Kush" was published by Harcourt, Brace and World in 1964 -- translated from the Italian of "Paropamiso", which was published in 1963. They were based upon his trip of 1959. I don't personally mean to quibble, but, occasionally, foolish people make a large deal of such details, in order to obscure the real point...

I'm not even an amateur ethnographer. At one point I considered majoring in Cultural Anthropology, then almost minored in it, but in the end only took a bunch of courses. But in book sales and thrift stores, that is a category I usually search through. Once in a while I get lucky and find something worth rereading. My copy of Maraini's book mentioned above was found in a thrift store, and was itself a library discard. My copy of the book by Schuyler Jones is from a University book sale, having been a duplicate donated by retiring faculty. At least it was not discarded from the collection. With the various internet booksearch engines, it is now often easy to locate copies of such books, if one knows a title or author. But it much more difficult to browse on the internet than in a store, or at a sale.

Posted by: del at March 19, 2007 12:38 AM

What a sick religion. They have a real thing for cutting off heads and body parts just like their false prophet Muhammad did. What a wonderful example Mo set for his followers.

Posted by: champ at March 19, 2007 12:44 AM

Go into Pak and take no prisoners.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at March 19, 2007 1:50 PM

Cut off noses and ears----Hmmmmmm----

Now they wont be able to hear their crap or smell it either!

Posted by: guide inside at March 20, 2007 3:01 AM