Never mind New Labour always desperate for the moslem vote has Dennis Macshane, grovelling in the Observer/Gaurdian for a few more votes in Rotheram.

Why do we as nation tolerate New Labour ?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2036573,00.html

Posted by: apostate_islam at March 18, 2007 8:40 AM

Americaningermany:

Personally, I like "that snake-dancing, desert music."

Very much.

This post is not about musical tastes. Keep yours out of it, and thank you. Posts like yours just give our enemies ammunition. Think before you post, please.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at March 18, 2007 8:52 AM

AIG:

Sure.

RS

Posted by: jihadwatch at March 18, 2007 9:09 AM

Have you seen this?

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/03/18/radical-cleric-to-speak-in-australia-are-there-any-other-ones/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 18, 2007 9:10 AM

GOD made music!!!
Satan uses music to destroy people(he used to be God's most beautiful praise and worshipper)
In a way, I can see destroying music- If it is not glorifying to God or does not express His word.
MUSIC IS MEANT TO PRAISE GOD!!
Jesus is the difference between all that is good and all that is evil.

Posted by: eagerbeaver at March 18, 2007 9:34 AM

Didn't the founder of Islam say that music is the sound of the satan ?

Also didn't Shakespeare say that any disliker of music is to be dreaded ?

Any ideology against art produces a sick society.

Actually works of art such as Taj Mahal are not because of Islam, but inspite of Islam (the prophet had said not to idolise anything, and the Taj is supposed to be an idolisation oflove)

And since Islam is against the spirit of enquiry as well, Muslim achievements are obviously a zero.

Posted by: proud-hindu at March 18, 2007 9:34 AM

islam is all about control,music, movies and communications. What a religion of peace, huh!

Posted by: AMartinez at March 18, 2007 9:47 AM

This is a good reference for Islamic prohibitions, from an honest Muslim website.

It covers music, chess, even free thinking...

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 18, 2007 9:54 AM

oops, free thinking (the site uses frames and I wasn't paying attention)

"Intellect may or may not agree, it should be accepted with eyes shut" etc.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 18, 2007 9:58 AM

l think we should torture these nutbars with more music, growing l loved Led Zepplin, perhaps we can entice them with "Stairway to Heaven" lol

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 18, 2007 10:04 AM

The Islamic fantastics want to make sure they don't "degenerate the faithful with that crazy Casbah sound"

As far as posts being deleted I approve. I've had posts deleted with no explanation. Robert Spencer has an image to present to the world and idiotic posts detract from it

Especially since there are active debates with ankle biters such as CAIR and D'ishonest Dinesh. More is on the line every day as far as Jihad and anti-Jihad efforts. Just look at the recent riot in Utrecht, Netherlands by fed up Dutch. The Dutch Jihad starts with petty theft, harassment, vandalism and property destruction. That's how European infidels are driven out of places they lived in for generations

Posted by: dennisw at March 18, 2007 11:46 AM

Cheeky Human,

Interesting site on what's prohibited.

Is there a similar site on what's encouraged - FGM, polygamy, child marriages, pedophilia, etc.?

Posted by: LoneRanger at March 18, 2007 11:52 AM

Ridicule the Sufis. We know they can be be stone Jihadists too. But the peaceful Sufis very much believe in reaching "the Divine" via music and dance, spinning, "whiling dervish". Heh, I read lots of Gurdjieff when younger. New Age types, I met those Sufis, "Inayat Khan" bunch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inayat_Khan

Posted by: dennisw at March 18, 2007 12:08 PM

Thank you Mr. Spencer as in hearing music in most of those goofy jihad videos I had just assumed that Islam allowed it as their call to prayers is the basic musical chant which in most religions is deemed music, such as the Gregorian chant.

Last year to prove to people what bin Laden was really stating I took apart his words using BBC, al Jazeera and other translated sources and what I found and published was bin Laden speaks in actual musical tones.
His opening is the basic no substance allah is something paragraph which allows an audience to settle down and get all random thoughts out of their minds.
His next stanzas though always break into a poetic chant which repeats the same thought over and over again as a sort of brainwashing technique. He never shouts like Hitler did to stir up the audience, but uses this cadence to stir the heart of the listener into what science would call here "beta wave television flash" to numb the mind and then indoctrinate it.

In noting the above, I am perplexed as always in not understanding Islam, because since music is outlawed then every message in Islam by the imams and people like bin Laden is a sin as it is all a human singing without instruments like all primitive cultures.
The beautiful voice of the call to prayers is actually a sin, the irony never ends.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 18, 2007 12:11 PM

Cheeky Human,

Interesting site on what's prohibited.

Is there a similar site on what's encouraged - FGM, polygamy, child marriages, pedophilia, etc.?

I don't know of any sites offhand that actually endorse that kind of stuff, but this one seems to be well researched, referencing fatwas and Ayatollah Khomeini, for example.

Muslim sexual perversions

The main page is Islamic Evil

Perhaps some other readers know some Imam-approved websites (in English) about this kind of stuff.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 18, 2007 12:31 PM

This news item is a good example of the sort of perverted morality intrinsic in the Sharia. It's as if the sensible prohibitions on behavioral excesses common to most major religions, such as those against adultery for example, have been interpreted by someone who does not understand that the purpose of those prohibitions is make people safe, healthy and happy.
If there is no joy in Islam, then Islam is something that threatens one's happiness, and any religion that considers music a sin is itself sinful.

Posted by: jewdog at March 18, 2007 1:00 PM

A BIT OFF TOPIC:

Definitley a worth while Listen to of the "great one" and (no nonsence)Mark Levin on the 6 flying Imans and CAIR.

Tab down to the speaker icon below this title "Not All Muslims Support CAIR Plan to Sue U.S. Airways"…

http://marklevinfan.com/?cat=11
nd Cair.

Posted by: Mackie at March 18, 2007 1:02 PM

A comprehensive table of what mohammedanism permits, in contrast to what it forbids would be revealing and interesting.

I expect it would delineate a criminal if not psychopathic mentality. Which is not altogether surprising, as it has been plausibly suggested by several that big moe himself was at least schizophrenic.

I have neither the time nor knowledge at my fingertips to do this right, but perhaps something like this:

Forbidden
        Permitted

Music
        Public announcements of prostration time

Education for 13 year old girls
        Marriage to 13 year old girls

Portrait painting
        Anti-semitic cartoons

Teen-age dating
        Gang rape as punishment for teen-age dating

Lending money for interest, voluntarily
        Seizing money from unbelievers, at gunpoint

Critical analysis of mohammedanism
        Incitement to riot and murder of unbelievers and foreigners

Display of classical fine art from foreign cultures
        Destruction of classical fine art from foreign cultures

etc...
        etc...

Done in a comprehensive and organized way it would be revealing and unarguable.

Sorry about the odd formatting but the site will not accept HTML tables or lists.

Posted by: joeblough at March 18, 2007 1:43 PM

"I don't know of any sites offhand that actually endorse that kind of stuff, but this one seems to be well researched, referencing fatwas and Ayatollah Khomeini, for example."

Muslim sexual perversions

The main page is Islamic Evil

Perhaps some other readers know some Imam-approved websites (in English) about this kind of stuff.

Posted by: Cheeky Human

Now that is funny!I have tears running down my face! Thanks for posting it.

But you know, ridicule is a powerful tool in social correction. The Pueblo Indians used it for 100s of years to pass on social information, correct bad behavior and pass down community values and conforming behaviors. Some of the Kachina dolls that were thought to be used in religious rituals, turn out to be nothing more than objects used to heap community ridicule on some wife beater or a new member of the community. I feel it is our only tool that can be used to encourage the islams to integrate into American society. Surly poking fun the Islam women in their robes will effect the kids to hide, or flat refuse to wear that git-up.

Posted by: QuadoLama at March 18, 2007 1:59 PM

Now that is funny!I have tears running down my face! Thanks for posting it.

I think I should offer a disclaimer so people don't get the wrong impression: most people will not find the link I posted above hilarious. The detail is very explicit and it is primarily intended to be informative, although it does have some sardonic comments, such as "Must animals always be one-night stands?". Just don't click on it expecting to find satire or something along those lines.

Now for something solely intended to be funny:

The moral of this story is: Never accept a random offer of cooking oil from an unidentified person.

Or a coupon from a giant chicken

Oh, and sorry to see you go, AIG.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 18, 2007 2:39 PM

Not knowing what the original posts were from AIG, I don't understand what has happened. Anyway, I am sorry to see you go, too, AIG. I have enjoyed your posts.

I find all the rap "music" I'm bombarded with on a daily basis to be particularly annoying. I don't inflict my music on anyone else, and don't want theirs inflicted on me. (Although I have been, on occasion, known to turn up my radio a tad when "Have You Forgotten", or "I Just Came Back From A War", or "The Angry American" come on.

Sorry to all who have found that offensive.

Posted by: igetit at March 18, 2007 2:45 PM

AIG:

It is you who dropped the nuke, not me.

Anyway, it's your choice.

Cordially
Robert Spencer (and yes, that's my real name; I don't quite see how your being angry with me because of your post would change your opinion of that, but it makes no difference to me, really.)

Posted by: jihadwatch at March 18, 2007 2:54 PM

What exactly is the basis in the Qur'an or otherwise, for the prohibition of music? And is it formulated in such a way as to exempt the call to prayer and other such religious chants?

Posted by: billposer at March 18, 2007 3:37 PM

Does a Muslim's head explode if he listens to Shadows Fall or Angel Dust?

Posted by: aynrandgirl at March 18, 2007 3:37 PM

I asked about the basis for the prohibition of music in part because I wonder if it is parallel to the prohibition of dancing by some Christians (all fundamentalist protestant so far as I know). Dancing is not prohibited in Jewish law and in fact is repeatedly referred to in a positive vein. I am not aware of anything in the New Testament that prohibits dancing. So it appears that those Christians who object to dancing do so without any scriptural basis but out of a general policy of austerity. I am wondering whether the objection to music in Islam is a manifestation of a similar tendency toward puritanism rather than a matter of law.

Posted by: billposer at March 18, 2007 3:50 PM

Is 'Islamophobia' a bad thing? Why?

And, says WHO???

Gloria Steinem? Jane Fonda? Ted Kennedy? The leftist wing of the political spectrum?? (Tell me, somebody, WOULD that be an unimpeachable source? If the answer is 'no' to that--which it surely is-- could we posters here at Jihad Watch be giving 'Islamophobia' unmerited and unwarranted credibility??? I think possibly so).

All that is really needed to destroy the 'Islamophobia' crowd is a few key quotes from the Kuran revealing Islam's true character. The rest should be easy.

Posted by: pythagoras at March 18, 2007 4:04 PM

billposer, music and islam

"References within the context of the Holy Qur`aan along with the Hadith of the Prophet Sallalahu alihi wa sallam (Peace be upon him) confirm that music is haraam."

In my experience, Muslims seem to base their rules heavily on the Qur'an and Hadith, which is why their religion is so difficult to reform. If there is a law in Islam, it probably backed by Sura or Hadith and won't die as easily as, for example, the ridiculous prohibition against dancing that some Christian sects taught.

You can also examine the Islamic scriptural backing for other prohibitions in Islam should you so desire.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 18, 2007 4:20 PM

Bill Poser
“prohibition of dancing by some Christians”

I think you are correct in this, the Baptists, Mormons, Quakers and Pentecostals all had a prohibition against dancing, and Pop culture in general. I do know that the Mormons have relaxed their stand on many modern ideas, and now allow dancing, but only at Mormon get-togethers. And the same with Baptists. I was raised Quaker, but I am a Callipygian now, so I don’t know if others still do this, as It seems a little out of date. And I can assure you that we as Callipygians encourage it, with abandon.

Posted by: QuadoLama at March 18, 2007 4:24 PM

Americaningermany:

Personally, I like "that snake-dancing, desert music."

l fail to see how that is so bad? Do not the Hindu at least some of them are snake charmers using the cobra when they use their horn to play? how is that a desert music? l have heard some of the islamist music in the video, etc. and there is music, l guess the pakistani are a litte more hateful of any music? but then they did love the taliban, and they hate everything.. oh tiny minority of extremist make all that noise.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at March 18, 2007 4:37 PM

Considering the number of African American jazz
musicians who converted to Mohammadanism, I find
this all rather strange. I suspect these guys
converted because they were rebelling against
Christianity, which they perceived as "white",
but I'm surprised that they weren't told that
they had to quit with the music. Any ideas?

And what's with the song Misirlu, huh? Doesn't
that mean "Muslim girl"? Isn't it suggestive of
getting a little action from one? Kind of odd,
as I don't find those tents appealing at all,
but I have seen some nominally Muslim Egyptian
belly dancers who were hot.

I don't know about the banned comment, but I
like a bit of Middle Eastern (and Carnatic and
North Indian and Eastern European and ...) sound
in my tunes. Music is good.

Posted by: root_cause at March 18, 2007 4:42 PM

I love "that snake-dancing, desert music" myself. It has a certain mysterious quality I find quite enchanting!

To each his or her own. :)

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 4:55 PM

"Kind of odd, as I don't find those tents appealing at all"

I find them very hot!

Posted by: J. Fever at March 18, 2007 5:07 PM

Beethoven gave us God’s fire.
Mozart gave us God’s laughter.
God gave us music so we could pray without words.
Anonymous

Too bad the Muslims cannot appreciate -- are prohibited from even experiencing -- such soul-uplifting works as:

Music of Beethoven, Mozart, Listz, Chopin, Bach, Rachmaninoff, Brahms, . . .
Artistic works by Michelangelo, Rubens, Rembrandt, da Vinci, Raphael, . . .
The Holy Bible, St. Augustine, Plato, Homer, Shakespeare, Milton, Dickens, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, . . .

And should the Muslims prevail in their global jihad, all of these wonderful works will likely be destroyed for being un-Islamic, and lost forever to mankind.

Posted by: American Woman at March 18, 2007 6:09 PM

Root_cause--

If you can snag a copy of Dizzy Gillespie's autobiography, To Be... Or Not to Bop, he sheds some light on the subject of Islam and jazz musicians. Check out pp. 291-94.

Dizzy notes many followed it for "social rather than religious reasons." In particular, he says many of them sought it out in order to take on a new identity that they hoped would allow them to dodge discrimination against black people:

Page 291:

"'Man, if you join the Muslim faith, you ain't [black] no more, you'll be white,' they'd say. 'You'll get a new name and you don't have to be [black] no more.' So everybody started joining because they considered it a big advantage not to be black during the time of segregation."

According to Dizzy, this also apparently allowed some liberties in stating one's race on the police-issued cabaret cards.

Dizzy did caution that there were musicians who approached it sincerely, not just opportunistically. But one still wonders whether they knew what they were signing onto with respect to the prohibitions on music, and if any, Cat Stevens-style, quit music for religious reasons... or if any later became apostates.

(Gotta love it when odd stuff on the bookshelf comes in handy.)

Posted by: MarisolJW at March 18, 2007 6:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS4v_kj9rw4
Here is a funny video parody of Al-Jizz
(BTW, I'm Carolyn2, had some problems changing my email)

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 18, 2007 6:52 PM

Imagine "Whirled Peas".

Check out this placard on the right in the photo.

http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/005781.html

Posted by: ala-sux at March 18, 2007 6:56 PM

Burgundy Infidel, thanks for the answer
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015690.php#c365042
on the Bus driver thread.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 18, 2007 7:02 PM

Sorry for butting in everybody but i want to add a post with piccies and when i paste it from word the piccies disappear.

Am I going about it the wrong way?

Posted by: Mert at March 18, 2007 7:26 PM

AIG - sorry to see you go, though I missed the nitty-gritty of your posts today.

Robert there appears to be a good Muslim guy in Arizona. His name is Zuhdi Jasser. I think its really worth posting his stuff on this site. He appears to be what we have been waiting for, an anti-CAIR Muslim.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at March 18, 2007 7:42 PM

Islam goes around blowing up music stores in the U.S. and they may bite off a bit more than they can chew (not just because they are snaggle toothed either),although i must admit if they did it would open the eyes of plenty that still sleep.

I have plenty of sound here that would put ugly little marks on those flowing perty little white robes they zombie around in.

I can't imagine living the life of the zombie,going to the toilet would be the highlight of the day....no wait theres something the pious have to observe about that too.

That clenches it for me man.If a guy can't even go to the crapper with the objective of just to unload....it's too wishy washy for me.And not to be able to do it to some nice tunes FORGET IT!

Sorry folks but islam and the crapper go good together.....(FLUSH.)

And all that jazz.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at March 18, 2007 8:13 PM

Mert, most sites of this type aren't set up to display pictures in the comments.

You would need to upload your image somewhere and then provide a link to it, but that may be too complicated for you. If the image is already available on the net, then just "copy image location" and try pasting it into the comments field.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 18, 2007 8:16 PM

Please stay Americaningermany! You will be greatly missed!

Posted by: champ at March 18, 2007 8:21 PM

OT Anyone see this post at LGF...

The Doha debate...
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24837_The_Doha_Debates-_Suppression_of_Women_Good_or_Bad

Notice at 34.00 the speaker who is dressed 'modestly', and also 40.30 when Reem says to "endear us to them and then bring them closer and closer to our ways. Basically, pretend to be moderate and once you win them over then go more and more back to your old ways. That's how to get along in the west.

Posted by: Borg at March 18, 2007 8:27 PM

Marisol, you rock!

John Birks "Dizzy" Gillespie (October 21, 1917 – January 6, 1993) was born in Cheraw, South Carolina. He was an American jazz trumpeter, bandleader, singer, and composer. Gillespie, with Charlie Parker, was a major figure in the development of bebop and modern jazz.

In addition to featuring in these epochal moments in jazz, he was instrumental in founding Afro-Cuban jazz, the modern jazz version of the "Spanish Tinge". Gillespie was a trumpet virtuoso and gifted improviser, building on the virtuoso style of Roy Eldridge but adding layers of harmonic complexity previously unknown in jazz. In addition to his instrumental skills, Dizzy's beret and horn-rimmed spectacles, his scat singing, his bent horn, pouched cheeks and his light-hearted personality were essential in popularizing bebop, which was originally regarded as threatening and frightening music by many listeners raised on older styles of jazz. He had an enormous impact on virtually every subsequent trumpeter, both by the example of his playing and as a mentor to younger musicians.

Dizzy is legendary.

WJLB 97.9 FM

Posted by: J. Fever at March 18, 2007 8:34 PM

My sister is married to Dizzy's cousin's neice. What a great talent he was! I am hoping she will make something in the way of an introduction for me too. :)

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 8:40 PM

AIG

In case you're still reading this, I too am saddened to see you leave. But since your original comments were deleted, it's hard to see what this brouhaha was about. Also, what could you have dropped that Robert described as a nuke - seems to me to be a rather strong term, in the absence of a clear context.

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread - Pakistan's jihadis might want to declare cricket un-islamic, now that Pakistan has been knocked out of the World Cup by Ireland (not a regular cricket playing nation). Normally, had they done this, there would have been a backlash, but with Pakistani public outrage against their team, this might be the right time for them to pull this off.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 18, 2007 8:50 PM

Music and dancing, good for the heart and the soul.

All I need is access to some of those annoying vehicles with loudspeakers...and some smurf suits.

Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at March 18, 2007 8:51 PM

hook:

If you don't mind me asking, how is it possible that you sister is married to anyone's neice?

Posted by: Aspen at March 18, 2007 9:10 PM

Well, they were married in and reside in Massachusetts. Hopefully, that is an acceptable explanation?

Please aquaint yourself with what is now common knowledge.

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 9:15 PM

Perfectly acceptable. I was just confused there for a minute. Please accept my appologies for being so dense, hook.

Posted by: Aspen at March 18, 2007 9:19 PM

No problem.

Posted by: hook at March 18, 2007 9:20 PM

Infidel Pride --

Robert referenced her comment in his first post, something about 'snake-dancing, desert music'....that's all she said. If something as mundane as her comment "gives ammunition to our enemies", then God help us all.

Posted by: champ at March 18, 2007 11:40 PM

Well if the Jihadists get their way all we are gonna be able to listen to is 'snake-dancing, desert music' with allah-burka-kiss-akbar lyrics. Islam means the means the death of any Creative expression of the arts besides cute little geometry doodlings and...and, blah I cannot think of any creative arts in Islam-o-land.

Posted by: SoteriA at March 18, 2007 11:58 PM

Correction : maybe some nice rugs from Pakistan.

Posted by: SoteriA at March 19, 2007 12:02 AM

AIG:

Please reconsider & stick around. I've had a couple of my posts removed for apparently no good reason. I was miffed at the time, but the funny thing is a few weeks on I don't even remember what I wrote. I thought that since he generally seems fair and has more important things to do than defend his decisions on which posts to strike, I'd let it slide. And so I did.

Posted by: sheik yer booty at March 19, 2007 12:33 AM

AIG:

I've enjoyed your input. Who else can be as relentless as you on any given topic?

I too had one of my posts deleted and unfairly in my opinion. The gist of what I said involved a lonely man, a pair of underpants and a bulbous root vegetable. It still brings floods of tears just thinking about it, but alas it was not to be. I've covinced myself that Mr Spencer pulled the piece so that he can use my amusing anecdote in his lucrative after dinner speaking without the accusation of plagiarism by his critics.

Whatever, the first comments on any given thread have added impetus and can set the topic up for discussion in a less than helpful direction.

Posted by: western infidel at March 19, 2007 5:51 AM

"sister is married to anyone's neice?"

How sad, when we accept that which is immoral as a way of life.

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at March 19, 2007 9:40 AM

Dizzy did caution that there were musicians who approached it sincerely, not just opportunistically. But one still wonders whether they knew what they were signing onto with respect to the prohibitions on music, and if any, Cat Stevens-style, quit music for religious reasons... or if any later became apostates.

posted by marisol

This brings up a question I have wondered about.

There must be a lot of people who bought into the religon of peace idea and joined up with Islam.
Where will they be when they wake up to the truth? How can they be of any use to the 'whole'?

I kind of wish we would hear from some of them here on JW.

Posted by: auntbea at March 19, 2007 10:17 AM

A.I.G:
Please return to offer us the benefit of your incisive comments and substantive knowledge. If your remarks are sometimes struck out, simply come into bat again, do not give up nor sulk. JW needs you .. we need you.

Posted by: meekee at March 19, 2007 1:00 PM

AIG, you must have pegged out the robert-o-meter ... but no need to withdraw completely ... your (thoughtful) perspective from the other side of the pond is valued.

Posted by: LoneRanger at March 19, 2007 2:39 PM

"Last week two men and a woman were stoned and shot to death for adultery in a tribal area"

What a barbaric and archaic practice. I guess the stoning didn't kill them, so that's when someone decided to do the humane thing and shoot them. What a merciful and forgiving religion.

Remember what Jesus' response was to the woman who was caught in adultery? He said..."the one of you who is sinless cast the first stone."

Posted by: champ at March 19, 2007 3:11 PM

AIG....I too have had my 'nukes' deleted from JW before (although with no persoanl finger wagging from R.S.....(ouch)).While i have no idea what bombs you dropped i just wrote mine off as "Oh well" and "maybe they deserved it", sometimes i know dar al-harb can get a little over the edge what with all the waiting, watching and listening.

(Dar al-harb gets a little edgy and rightly so)

Imagine being in Rs shoes or Hughs or like any poster here having to point out the same old rediculously obvious point over and over.

One can imagine all will be forgiven.It's the camp of the infedel muslim that needs to be devided and allowed to feud amongst themselves not us.

As long as i got my 'jihad on the jihad' im good,never let it be said that we don't play the game fairly.Amd if it's sharia law they wish for lets give it to them....at the hands of the 'infedels'.

By the way wasn't the original term 'infedel' meant to mean the muslim?....hmmmm maybe i misread that point a while back.

Anyhow you can still rock in America

10,000 fists in the air
and all that jazz.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at March 19, 2007 5:17 PM

Come on Spencer, you are depicting a picture as the Muslim world is some how void of Music and its charms all together. Have you not heard of nice, charming and acoustic instrumental Music in Arab lands? Or the Arabic or Persian poetry widely sung and played with magnetic touch of melodious voices of legendry Arabian Night Dreams Music?

We all enjoy and love to get immersed into relaxing and soothing rhythms of Arabian music and its exceptional vibrant gorgeous orchestra, dramatically composed for listening pleasure. I believe this belongs to Arab world of Muslims.

And what about Belly dancing and charms of night life attached to it?

But you probably want to take us to the land of conservative Afghan and Pashtoons living in the rugged mountainous areas, lying in between Kabul, Afghanistan and Peshawar, Pakistan, the Hindukush mountains and Essakhiel; where history tells us that people living in these area lead a very conservative lives and have the roots back to their ancestors belonging to old Judaic Israelite tribes of Lost sheep's of Israel. These tribes earlier fled Palestine fearing the persecution of Aryan invading Armies. Name of the places of the area, the Valleys and Mountains connects them to Israelite. Their features, life style and their dealings in social and day to day business, all resemble them with Israelites. They although, later very graciously accepted Islam but for their cultural trends and traditions like, beheading and stoning to death etc are still in vogue among them, as they were commonly practiced then in Judaic times.

Posted by: A Khokar at March 19, 2007 8:16 PM

A Khokar: "Come on Spencer, you are depicting a picture as the Muslim world is some how void of Music and its charms all together."

Spencer is not "depicting" anything. He is reporting the news. As to the rest of your post which pins this on the Jews - that's something I'd really love to see - You marching into the Taleban controlled areas of both Afghanistan and Pakistan and calmly explaining to them that their prohibition on music is not Islamic at all and they are basically Jews who are following Jewish tradition and they are not really Muslims at all. LOL! I'd love to see that!

Posted by: Caroline at March 19, 2007 9:55 PM

Caroline,

I don't think so that Mr Robert Spencer is running some sort of news agency website to deliver us news. He holds a staunch agenda to under mine the Religion of Islam and love to carry on doing so the job of cherry picking, the events, with the aim to place us pitched against the peace loving religion of God called-- Islam.

But who has ever been able to frustrate the plans of God Almighty
---------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for none

Posted by: A Khokar at March 20, 2007 6:53 AM

A Khokar - here you go:

http://www.planetaislam.com/praktyka/music_singing_islam.html

"THE NARRATION OF AL-BUKHAARI:

The translation of the hadeeth follows: The Prophet (Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) said, "There will be [at some future time] people from my Ummah [community of Muslims] who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the wearing of silk,(*46) wine-drinking and the use of musical instruments [ma'aazif]. Some people will stay at the side of the mountain and when their shepherd comes in the evening to ask them for his needs, they will say, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Then Allah will destroy them during the night by causing the mountain to fall upon them, while He changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Resurrection."(*47)"

THE NARRATION OF AL-HAAKIM AND OTHERS:

It is reported by Al-Haakim in his Mustadrak(*84) that the Prophet (upon whom be peace and blessings) took the hand of the companion, AbdurRahmaan bin 'Owf, and they proceeded to visit the Prophet's ailing son, Ibraheem. They found the infant in the throes of death, so the Prophet took him to his breast and held him until his spirit left him. Then he put the child down and wept, whereupon Abdur-Rahmaan asked in astonishment, "You are weeping, Oh Messenger of Allah, while you prohibit crying!?" The following is the Prophet's reply:

"Verily, I did not prohibit weeping [per se] but rather, I forbade two voices [sowtayn] which are imbecilic [ahmaq] and sinfully shameless [faajir]: one, a voice [singing] to the accompaniment of musical amusement [lahw] and Satan's [wind] instruments; the other, a voice [wailing] due to some calamity, accompanied by striking of the face and tearing of garments. But this [weeping of mine] stems from compassion, and whosoever does not show compassion will not receive it."

This hadeeth's degree is hasan,(*85) and it has been strengthened by another narration related by Abu Bakr Ash-Shaafi'ee in his work, Ar-Rubaa'eeyat.(*86) Its abbreviated text follows.

THE NARRATION OF ABU BAKR ASH-SHAAFI'EE:

Anas bin Maalik related from the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) that "two cursed sounds are that of the [wind] instrument [mizmaar](*87) played on the occasion of joy and grace, and woeful wailing upon the occurrence of adversity."(*88)

A similar text with slightly different wording is related by Al-Bazzaar in his collection(*89) of hadeeths. Al-Haafidh Nooruddeen Al-Haythami mentioned it in his Majma' Az-Zawaaid(*90) and indicated that the narrators of this isnaad are all dependable. Thus, these last three narrations prove the illegality of music and singing to musical accompanient, especially wind instruments (mazaameer), which are referred to as "flutes of Satan" in the tradition related by Al-Haakim.

The traditions quoted are not the only available authentic hadeeths which establish prohibition. There are others(*91), however the scope of this treatise does not allow a more detailed exposition. The sample mentioned is sufficient proof, for {verily, therein is a reminder for any who has a heart or who gives ear and earnestly witnesses [the truth].}(*92)

Posted by: Caroline at March 20, 2007 8:20 AM

A Khokar,
You're a liar and a scumbag, just like the
murdering filth you worship as a prophet. Nice
little stab at blaming it all on the Jews, too.

Spencer never said the Muslim world was devoid
of music, but points out that Islam is against music. Too stupid to get the difference? Some
Muslims drink alcohol, and befriend infidels, but
that's against Islam. Clear now?

BTW, Dizzy was a Bahai, not a mohammadan.

Bird lives!

Posted by: root_cause at March 20, 2007 10:56 AM

A Khokar states, "Love for all, Hatred for none."

Oh really, sounds like you hate the Jews, ole boy. And if Islam were a religion of peace, then it's followers would leave Israel ALONE.

Islam is not peaceful, and you are not loving. Prove me wrong by repeating after me...."I love the Jews, and I support them by wanting to see them remain in Israel."

Otherwise your "Hatred for none" is a lie, just as root_cause pointed out.

Posted by: champ at March 20, 2007 1:40 PM

:(

Posted by: champ at March 21, 2007 1:33 AM

Hi Champ and friends

Our God is the most gracious, the merciful. ‘Whatever is in the heavens and in the earth glorifies Allah; and He is the Mighty, the Wise’. God bestowed the mankind with his commandments to guide us through, for our well being and attain a peace and harmony among our societies. This is His grace that He is very much pleased, when He finds us doing good for the mankind and admonishes us for our wrong doings. There is no dearth of provisions on this God’s earth. The people ‘who follow the guidance (given) from their Lord and it (is) who shall prosper’. He wants us to live by his will and act by his guidance as his… humble, obedient servants.
We all humans are a unique creation of God Almighty. Since ages, human beings are in a continuous state of evolution toward attaining the adult hood of our conscious and to reach for its summit destined by our ‘Gracious Lord’. Our different denominations or religions … on the time scale are nothing except a stepping stones in the process of our evolution; and prophets of the day are the conductors of our induction cadres, or training courses as our instructors as per God’s Plan. New generations replace the older one but achieved results are the earned values developed in our societies forming; our civilization; which lives on. No era has the rights of monopoly over others. Rebellious and defiant civilizations are admonished and receive the wrath of God and are wiped out from the face of the earth. Only the humble and God fearing, Just societies flourish and prosper. Koran says; “And We destroyed many generations before you when they did wrong; and there came to them Messengers with clear Signs, but they would not believe. Thus do We requite the guilty people”. (Chapter: 10 (Yunus) Verse: 14) and “Thus We made it an example to those of its time and to those who came after it, and a lesson to those who fear God”. (Chapter: 2 (Al-Baqarah) Verses: 67).

The case of Jews is a unique case in the history of religions. God Almighty declared them as 'chosen people' and most favoured creed of the time. But He did admonish them also for their wrong doings. God Almighty became unhappy with their conduct, when they exceeded the limits and punished them heavily. This is very sad that transgression of those people earned them such a degree of ‘wrath of God’. God ceased His hands of blessings and took away His special privileges bestowed upon them. So much so that He devised His alternate ways to bring forth the prophesied ‘Reformer of the time' (Jesus), and took away the honour from them to even father him. Koran speaks volume on this subject and God Almighty clearly warns their successors…Muslims to conduct themselves cautiously to stay the course of righteous people. Examples of Jews and others are narrated openly as a clear signs to ponder upon and to act with wisdom; lest they deviate and may land up as the recipient of displeasure of God, like their predecessors.
Our God is Gracious God and is most forgiving. Koran says in Chapter: 2 (Al-Baqarah) Verse: 161 “But they who repent and amend and openly declare the truth, it is these to whom I turn with forgiveness, and I am Oft-Returning with compassion and Merciful”.
We ought to realize that we are passing through an era where we find that our God Almighty is seriously angered by the conduct of previous two denominations; Judaic and Christianity. Unfortunately they both are not placed in His good books. The Koran in chapter 4 (Al-Nisa) verse 48-49 says; [4:48] “O ye people of the Book! Believe in what We have now sent down, fulfilling that which is with you, before We destroy some of your leaders and turn them on their backs or curse them as We cursed the people of the Sabbath. And the decree of Allah is bound to be fulfilled.” and
[4:49] “Surely, Allah will not forgive that a partner be associated with Him; but He will forgive whatever is short of that to whomsoever He pleases. And whoso associates partners with Allah has indeed devised a very great sin.”
No Muslim may say any thing except which is narrated to them in Holy Koran. Muslims have been revealed a full account of conduct of previous denominations with an ample amount of warning; through Koran. They are cautioned, not to deviate after this, that they have received the clear guidance. In light of knowledge revealed to them; only they can choose to submit to the ‘Will of God’ and live by it. A Muslim may be good or bad in his personal capacity and may go to any limit in the service of society and looking after the chores of neighbor hood or mix up with his other non-Muslim friends but he or she may not compromise on the covenant that they entered into with God Almighty. The covenant which is simply to submit to the Will of God and act as per His revealed guidance contained in Holy Koran thus to full fill the obligations with out any hesitation; and in true spirit.
Knowing it to such; this is the magnanimity and fore bearing of the Muslims and their beloved teacher- Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that they only take the path of righteous and while in the love of their Creator and his creation; they don’t resort to any slandering , mocking or extend any curse toward Christian or people still following Judaic ways.
Muslims are God fearing people and take the route of righteous. They are always found bowed in front of God Almighty to attain his nearness, in a state of bliss and submission at His will. They seek the refuge of Him from the evil; lest they deviate and end up receiving wrath of the Almighty...as their predecessors.
This is not being harsh; but Muslims have to reject all that, which God has rejected. They even don’t care for their lives or loss of kith or kin to full fill their obligations. Knowing it to be such, it will be absurd to expect, any compromise from a true Muslim. Here Muslims simply do no have any choice. It must not perturb our friends that under the divine guidance and with out any personal anonymity; Muslims are supposed to be a ‘True Mirror’ to reflect a true picture for the onlookers; with out an iota of fallacy or deceit. This put the Muslims often in a difficult situation and most of the time Muslims are reaping the rancor and repercussion by the people not knowing it and looking at the things with different angles. Where others want to keep the matter of faith and religion, on some back burners, and that too, to keep them turned off ; Muslims are suppose to hold it high and keep it at a full rate fire. Muslims are indeed our true friends to lead us through. They earnestly and really care for the salvation of their fellow human beings. They are in True knowledge of it and carry the Beacon of Truth as revealed to them by God. It is incumbent upon them to spread its lights and blessing to all the fellow human beings living in every nooks and corners of the Earth.
In a personal capacity, if you suppress and harm any Muslim and he or she retaliates in a harsh form that is entirely a different scenario. It should not be dragged to the parapet of religion; that is a social issue in between two parties living in a particular set up of a society. But I hope you would have been able to understnd by now that where we stand in case our religion and that what is at stake. As described above; God has got a very clear verdict about Jews and other old denominations. There, it is not the case that you find some Muslims, some how hating you or some thing. His presentation may be absurd (some times) but He is simply trying to show you the true picture of you, because he is commanded as such and is suppose to act as a true mirror.
Mr. Robert Spencer running this site has a tall claim of his competence and pose himself a heavy weight in the know how of the Islamic world. He does not leave any stone, which remain un-turn… to malign Islam but certainly he is yet to come across the truth to know and submit to the latest terms of Almighty revealed to Muslims. History has seen many stalwart- arrogant eventually falling on their knees and becoming a sign of the times. Certainly he needs prayers!
But our God is Wise and Merciful God. He knows the short coming of His people that don't come to the terms easily; so God says in chapter: 2 (Al-Baqarah) Verse: 63 “Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve”.
------------------------------
Love for all, hatred for none

Posted by: A Khokar at March 21, 2007 4:18 PM

A Khokar,

Unfortunately you ignore the fact that your prophet commanded the forced conversion, expulsion or killing of Christians and Jews.
I applaud your apparent admission at the end of your post of the one peaceful aspect regarding people of the Book. Unfortunately, this is also apparently disingenuous due to the other intolerant and contradicting aspects of Islam that you posted and conveniently failed to post. It would be nice to see just a flat out acknowledgment of how your religion has been less than merciful. Better yet, how it contradicts itself in its irrational dualism and really makes no logical sense at its core.

(If you're lazy excuse for an educated brain is getting tired, please don't skip to the end for the icing of this responsive cake, because everything herein is good food for your hedonistic waste of a mind.)

That said, please don't pray for me or any other Christian, since as a Christian I do not want you waste your time praying to your false prophet for me or my fellow Christians. It would not be genuine anyway, as all you would likely pray for is that your false prophet's god will at best help us see his false way or, more likely, force us to get out of your way and submit to his will.

Also, keep your pathetic rippings of gnosticism to yourself. In fact, just keep all of your contradictory religion to yourself. Most people do not enjoy hearing the lies of the fake benefactor, the most prolific incubator of organized intolerance, subjugation and murder in the history of man on earth from the weak men that continue to propagate such lies in our world.
Yeah, I said he's false, and I will never kneel before him or any of his followers. Death before dishonor, and certainly before false prophets.
Know thins, I don't fear you or your heretic co-religionists.

Since I am human and a Christian, I am sympathetic to your human ignorance and stupidity, I have a warning to you and every other muslim you know or that reads this: we in the West are tired of your pathetic excuses and defenses for your religion's espousal and exercise of its own violent spread and the intolerance and abuses your religion has brought against your women and occupied peoples. We have the weapons to destroy you in totality, to expunge you from the earth, you do not have the weapons to destroy us. Never in history has the balance of power been so in our favor. It is (and has been) only by our mercy and the fact that we subscribe to the truly tolerant Judeo-Christian tradition and values that you and your pathetic excuse for a civilization are allowed to exist. But be careful, because our patience wears thin for you, the liar poets and persecutors of the weak. So, for the sake of your children's future, shut your mouth and reform your religion such that the murderous ways of your false prophet are disclaimed and we continue to allow you to exist. Otherwise, if you think the wars we fought against ourselves in the West were a bloodletting, wait until we unleash our combined power against you, our self-declared enemy for the last 1300 years.
It will be a true reckoning, and right now, it is creeping up on you in the false security that we have bestowed on you and your brethren with our tolerance. We have not even begun to fight this Long-War, as only our hands are in this fight, not our arms or body-weight.

As for you personally, you my enemy, I will pray to the true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christs, that you will admit that your religion (ISLAM) is a pathetic excuse for an epistemology and that you would turn away from your false prophet and receive true salvation. While I have little hope, I still will pray for you--tonight, and tonight alone.

Posted by: SerbSpaniard at March 23, 2007 12:47 AM

Surely, Allah loves not the arrogant and the boastful;

My friend,
You seem to be indulging in, too much of arrogance and are posing yourself excessively a boastful person. If I take out all the arrogance, boasting and slandering and mocking out of your reply; literally there remains nothing to respond to. God Almighty tells me; in [31:19] 'And turn not thy cheek away from men in scorn, nor walk in the earth haughtily; Surely, Allah loves not the arrogant boaster;

But I am quite hopeful that many a people like you surely do turn back because the faculty of conscious that we all possess, is the voice of God very finely embedded in our souls; how much we try to suppress it down; but it does make its way out ,one day and comes up to make all the arrogant and boastful to fall on their knee, with out fail,. Lo… then we find them----- repenting and begging.

After reading your boastful statement above ; How 'True' I find this warning from God Almighty; that;
•[3:119] 'O ye who believe! Take not others than your own people as intimate friends; they will spare no pains to ruin you. They love to see you in trouble. Hatred has already shown itself through the utterances of their mouths and what their breasts hide is greater still. We have made clear to you Our commandments, if you will only use your understanding.'

Any how, few latest commandment of God Almighty are enumerated below. With the prayer; that may you take some heed and… your conscious left to die in your soul may soon become a healthful faculty; and it come up soon to revives you. Amen.

• [2:110}'Many people of the Book wish, out of sheer envy from themselves, that, after you have believed, they could turn you again into disbelievers after the truth has become manifest to them. But forgive and overlook till Allah brings His decree. Surely Allah has the power to do all that He wills.'

• [2:106] 'They, who disbelieve from among the people of the Book, or from among those who associate gods with Allah, desire not that any good should be sent down to you from your Lord; but Allah chooses for His mercy whomsoever He pleases; and Allah is Lord of exceeding bounty.'

• [5:83}'Thou shalt certainly find the Jews and those who associate partners with Allah to be the most vehement of men in enmity against the believers. And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, 'We are Christians,' to be the nearest of them in friendship to the believers. That is because among them are savants and monks and because they are not arrogant.'

Yet;
• [3:114}They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book, there is a party who stand by their covenant; they recite the word of Allah in the hours of the night and prostrate themselves before Him.

Love for all, Hatred for none---only prayers!

Posted by: A Khokar at March 24, 2007 3:07 PM

Some how; above here a draft form post got published. I apologise for the inconvenience... it may have caused in reading. Please read as follow. Many thanks.
--------
Surely, Allah loves not the arrogant and the boastful;

My friend,
You seem to be indulging in, too much of arrogance and are posing yourself excessively-- a boastful person. If I take out all the arrogance, boasting and slandering or mocking out of your reply; literally there remains nothing to respond to. God Almighty tells me; in [31:19] 'And turn not thy cheek away from men in scorn, nor walk in the earth haughtily; Surely, Allah loves not the arrogant boaster;

But I remain hopeful that many a people like you surely do turn back to repent; because the faculty of conscious that we all possess, is the voice of God which is very finely embedded in our souls. How much we try to suppress it down; it does make its way to come up and eventually, one day bring all the arrogant and boastful on their knees. Lo… then we find them----- lying there, repenting and begging God's mercy.

After reading your boastful statement in your earlier post; How 'true' is the warning from God Almighty; that one finds; [3:119] 'O ye who believe! Take not others than your own people as intimate friends; they will spare no pains to ruin you. They love to see you in trouble. Hatred has already shown itself through the utterances of their mouths and what their breasts hide is greater still. We have made clear to you Our commandments, if you will only use your understanding.'

Anyhow, few of the commandment of God Almighty revealed in Glorious Koran, on the subject are enumerated below; with the prayers; that may you take some heed and… may your conscious buried in your soul turns into a healthful faculty; and it come up soon to revive you to become a righteous person. Amen.

• [2:110}'Many people of the Book wish, out of sheer envy from themselves, that, after you have believed, they could turn you again into disbelievers after the truth has become manifest to them. But forgive and overlook till Allah brings His decree. Surely Allah has the power to do all that He wills.'

• [2:106] 'They, who disbelieve from among the people of the Book, or from among those who associate gods with Allah, desire not that any good should be sent down to you from your Lord; but Allah chooses for His mercy whomsoever He pleases; and Allah is Lord of exceeding bounty.'

• [5:83}'Thou shalt certainly find the Jews and those who associate partners with Allah to be the most vehement of men in enmity against the believers. And thou shalt assuredly find those who say, 'We are Christians,' to be the nearest of them in friendship to the believers. That is because among them are savants and monks and because they are not arrogant.'

Yet;
• [3:114}They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book, there is a party who stand by their covenant; they recite the word of Allah in the hours of the night and prostrate themselves before Him.
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Love for all, Hatred for none

Posted by: A Khokar at March 24, 2007 8:40 PM