I think the comments section is valuable as an educational tool. It requires a person to read the article, think about the article, come up with an opinion, write it down, and submit it for criticism. It makes the site much more engaging and probably more effective than it would be if there were simply articles posted for reading. I think that many of the opinions expressed are really good.

I hope that we can continue to comment. Thanks to the staff for providing us the opportunity and dealing with the headaches.

Posted by: pez at March 21, 2007 11:35 AM

Powerline and Huffington post have separate comment boards. This format would be one degree of separation. Huffington moved to this very recently after they got exposed on their comments wishing Dick Cheney would die

Look at Powerline. Also not all their blog entries have comments enabled. Maybe 50% do. This would funnel JW/DW readers to blog entries that are more deserving of comments. Instead of spreading comments across too many entries

Posted by: dennisw at March 21, 2007 11:38 AM

I personally apologize if my anger has gotten the better of me on these boards.

I've said this before but I want to say it again. I've noticed people here have used the words "Muslim" and "Arab" interchangeably. Although at times Islam seems little more than a vehicle for Arab cultural imperialism please don't start railing against Arabs on this board. Being Arab is something you can't change, being a Muslim is. There are Arabs out there that are totally admirable, look at Nonie Darwish. Islam is the problem, not certain skin pigmentations.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at March 21, 2007 11:44 AM

I think the call to civility is a good idea. Emotional responses are easy to write, careful contributions take time. It is easy for someone who reads the comments to get a wrong impression about the point of this site.

Posted by: Jerry M at March 21, 2007 11:54 AM

Robert,

From a sinner - I repent and promise in the future to evaluate my comments prior to posting in response to your enlightened call for human decency. Given that this particular appeal may soon be buried, perhaps all new guests should be required to read, comprehend and pledge to uphold your standard prior to being admitted into the JW community, and old timers should be required as well to re-read and promise to do the same, say after every 10 posts, before being re-admitted? Just a thought.

Malinois

Posted by: Malinois at March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

This Site is the greatest thing sence the re-invention of Freshly Baked Bread.

A wonderful reminder for the strength of Reason over Hate.

Thanke you.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 21, 2007 12:02 PM

“old timers should be required as well to re-read and promise to do the same, say after every 10 posts”
What? Do we have to sit quietly facing forward at our desks while we do this?

Posted by: tgusa at March 21, 2007 12:03 PM

Its alot fairer here then at other sites where if you suggest that an ideology bent on destroying our Constitution should be illegal, not protected by the Constitution you will be vilified and even banned.

Posted by: Elric66 at March 21, 2007 12:12 PM

CAIR is engaged in war against our freedoms as surely as the mujahadeen in Afghanistan and Iraq. They just go about it differently, using our own Constitution against us.
They are trying to use fear of lawsuits to stop any and all criticism of islam.
What a sad day it will be when we can no longer tell the truth of what is happening right under our noses in our own homeland.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 21, 2007 12:12 PM

Its alot fairer here then at other sites where if you suggest that an ideology bent on destroying our Constitution should be illegal, not protected by the Constitution you will be vilified and even banned.

Posted by: Elric66 at March 21, 2007 12:12 PM

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I promise to watch my mouth (and my fingers) from now on. It is a privilege to be able to post here and I don't want to lose it. And I don't want to give CAIR any ammunition. God bless you, Dougie Hooper. I will pray for your conversion daily.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at March 21, 2007 12:12 PM

I too repent. Plus this site is the best thing since the invention of the bialy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kossar%27s_Bialys

Posted by: dennisw at March 21, 2007 12:13 PM

"Some of those, of course, quoted not me but comments from this site -- which is an indication of why CAIR is the only party that is happy, besides the commenter, when someone writes something here that is genocidal, abusive, or genuinely racist"

You know the funny part about CAIR is they use statements from comments on this site and pretend Mr. Spencer said them BUT when people who really work for CAIR make all sorts of statements that are bigoted and sexist are called out they scream foul.

Before making a comment I will think twice about how it could be used. Individual responsibility is what western civilization is all about.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at March 21, 2007 12:19 PM

It is a site about some particular evils: denial of the freedom of conscience, denial of equality of rights before the law, violent and/or subversive activities in the service of Islamic supremacism, the sources of the evils, and what can and must be done about them.

And of course, the ultimate evil should be mentioned here, namely Islam. Islam is inherently and incurably evil.

Robert Spencer probably won't object to this being mentioned here, as it is merely a matter of fact.

Posted by: anonymous at March 21, 2007 12:20 PM

Its alot fairer here then at other sites where if you suggest that an ideology bent on destroying our Constitution should be illegal, not protected by the Constitution you will be vilified and even banned.

Posted by: Elric66 .......I have not been banned and I have always said Islam is the problem.

Posted by: storagemanager at March 21, 2007 12:21 PM

On the Dhimmi Watch side of this site, comments have disappeared on several recent posts. I did not remove them. I don't know why this happened, but I have inquired with Hosting Matters, and it seems to have been just a onetime database glitch of some kind.

I noticed that as well, and was surprised that discussions that were perfectly normal - like one about the Quran-only approach in the thread about 'A dangerous, and self-defeating, pusillanimity' - got deleted. This makes more sense.

One longtime commenter recently asked me to remove all her comments -- well over a thousand -- because I took issue with one thing she had written in a comment (although I had not removed the comment). I did this at her request, and otherwise would not have done it. I mention this now because several people have asked about what happened.

Thanks for explaining. I had read her apology to you, and hours later, seeing it, and her other comments deleted, made it look to me like she had been banned, which seemed a rather vicious reaction to an apology. Of course, if she was the one who requested it, it was wrong of me to think that you were the one over-reacting, or more importantly, reacting inappropriately. I thought the apology was pretty gracious - wonder why she got so upset as to want her whole history here - much of which was quite morale boosting - to be eviscerated. But I guess that's something she can address, should she choose to.

People who think our focus is wrong are welcome to find other sites with a focus more to their liking, but this will remain Jihad Watch, not PC Watch or Annoying Music Watch or Immigration Watch or Crimes Against Muslims Watch or anything else people might want to make it into.

Robert, I wouldn't suggest that you make this anything else. However, a few days ago, for some minutes, you posted a thread about Arabic ballots in Beverly Hills, and abruptly deleting it later. I was puzzled, but thought no more about it, until I came across the explanation at Debbie Schlussel:

Now, for the first time ever, Beverly Hills is about to have an Iranian as Mayor--the likely result after tomorrow's election, there. What's interesting is that Jimmy Delshad will become the highest-ranking Iranian American, and he's a Jew. I'm sure that will upset Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a huge bonus. (While Delshad is a Democrat, I've found that many Iranian-American Jews are right-wing and Republican, more so than in the general Jewish population.)

But what I found most interesting was the contrast between Iranian Jews in Beverly Hills and Muslims in Dearbornistan and the rest of the U.S. While Muslims here insist on ballots in Arabic, so that illegal aliens and other non-English speaking malefactor co-religionists of theirs can vote. Beverly Hills' Iranian Jews registered 300 complaints about their new Farsi ballots. They speak English and think of themselves as Americans. They've assimilated themselves into America, rather than insisting America bow to them.

I know that a report like this is tangential to the issue of Jihad and Islamic supremacy, and I don't want to suggest that JihadWatch be anything but what it says. Having said that, however, I thought that a story such as this, while somewhat unrelated, would have been salutary in the sense of providing a study in contrast between Muslim immigrants, vs. immigrants from the same ethnic backgrounds but other religions, such as the Iranian Jews above, who show how it should, rather than shouldn't, be done. While it may seem somewhat distracting from the subject at hand, the upside is that it provides positive segways where you can report good news/positive contrasts to the gloom and doom that this subject is inherently loaded with, through no fault of your own.

Just my $0.02.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 21, 2007 12:24 PM

I wholeheartedly agree on removing comments that include racial insults and the like. That's what the Islamofascist enemy does. These things do not further the cause of reason and freedom and like Robert says, give the apologists for Islam ammunition to call those of us who oppose Jihad "racists" and worst.

I think what makes Jihad Watch so dangerous to the forces of Jihad is it's rational, educational tone. By presenting the facts in a clear manner, free of hysterical name calling and theatrics, Robert, Hugh and the rest of the JW staff set a tone that makes me proud to direct people here and recommend the site without hesitation or reservation. I will do my part to keep it that way.

Posted by: Proud Infidel at March 21, 2007 12:25 PM

Infidel Pride,

I received her gracious apology when I was about a third of the way through deleting her comments as requested. I responded in haste while I was traveling, in a way that was in no way intended to give offense, and received a viciously abusive email in response. This was as puzzling as it was hurtful, but as I received no reply to my further email asking what the hostility was all about, I completed the deletion process, and good riddance.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at March 21, 2007 12:35 PM

"[P]erhaps all new guests should be required to read, comprehend and pledge to uphold your standard prior to being admitted into the JW community, and old timers should be required as well to re-read and promise to do the same, say after every 10 posts, before being re-admitted?"
Posted by: Malinois at March 21, 2007 11:55 AM

Some will struggle with the length of their new leash.

Malinois

Posted by: Malinois at March 21, 2007 12:36 PM

Its alot fairer here then at other sites where if you suggest that an ideology bent on destroying our Constitution should be illegal, not protected by the Constitution you will be vilified and even banned.

Posted by: Elric66 .......I have not been banned and I have always said Islam is the problem.

Posted by: storagemanager at March 21, 2007 12:21 PM

Yeah, they will agree Islam is the problem, but think its protected by the Constitution. They also are selective on who they vilify. One person can say jihadists are like cockroaches, others cant. Sometimes its like Kozlite.

Posted by: Elric66 at March 21, 2007 12:42 PM

I completely agree that there is no reason to use derogatory words like "Muzzies", etc. to make a point, no matter how impassioned any of us might get. I think it's noteworthy that I have never lowered myself to such levels and yet I'm quite confident that my passion for this subject matter and the conflict at hand comes through in most things that I type. Method and reason to 'madness' works best.

Now, if I might finally make one small suggestion of my own to you, Robert, it would be that you might have someone update your Links once in a blue moon. Even though I fully understand why the Anvil is not in that list, and you know I do, Fjordman (for example), has not blogged since Wednesday, December 21, 2005.

I, on the other hand, just got the most hits ever to my humble blog yesterday and my article defending long-time JW commentator Sheik Yer'Mami is still bearing fruit with 33 Diggs and counting. So, yes, there is absolutely a reason to keep these comments on JW going. I began my education on these threads and, though I differ in my opinions from degree to degree with this or that comment or this or that posting, I will always remain a loyal reader of Robert Spencer as well as a royal-pain-in-the-ass to groups like CAIR and dhimmis like Gavin King.

Diversity of opinion is a cornerstone of Western Civilization, but only as long as it does not seek to destroy that which it should defend most.

Posted by: Foehammer at March 21, 2007 12:42 PM

I would consider it a wonderful coup Mr. Spencer in CAIR is reading all on your site and the only thing they can take issue with is "parlor conversation" which you have no control over.......because Robert Spencer is not like Islam in having thought control over the masses.

The lessons are learned and even I will make even greater efforts in being more adept at defining Muslims in their classification.

As a compliment Mr. Spencer, you have the finest site of this type and the most passionate and in most cases cordial people gathered around the cause and venture of Truth which you seek to educate all with.
To quote Ricky Nelson, This is your Garden Party and you learn your lessons well, but if you can't please everyone.....you have to please yourself.

That is why Jihad Watch endures and grows, because it is a reflection of your class, honor and truth which you define your life by.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 21, 2007 12:57 PM

Thanks for the clarification of the reason for the recent missing posts.

As Isabellathecrusader pointed out, posting in this loosely moderated community is a privilage. I have not yet been posting a year here, but I had two of my earliest posts modified, and learned the quick lesson that most thoughts and positions can be effectively expressed here without descending into a profanity-laced, racist tirade.

We should all take to heart Robert's plea that we try our best to moderate ourselves, for Robert, Hugh, Marisol, Anne and Greg have much more pressing matters to attend to. This is paramount when one looks at the ever-growing number of visitors to this site (It was under 6 million less than a year ago). With the rapidly increasing attention to JW/DW, comes increasing responsibility.

It is sad to see the end result with AIG, but as Robert pointed out, it was her decision. As far as people trying to persuade Robert and Hugh to change the focus, it is not feasible. Robert and Hugh are learned scholars of Islam, not PC multiculturalism. It is also unfortunate that people like remote_control could not accept this simple fact, assuming that it is he who Robert was referring to. If not, then my apologies go out to him. Remote's insights through sincere research on the subject augmented the discussion of Islam as a whole, in my opinion.

I owe a debt to Jihad Watch. A debt I cannot adequately repay, but will attempt to do so anyway, beginning with my unwavering support of all those involved.

Posted by: awake at March 21, 2007 1:09 PM

If you are mad, compose a draft. When you are really mad, edit out everything that can be used against you.

Editing is harder work than composing, in the sense that people do it less, so it must be harder. Think about a soldier crawling in a fight. The last ounce of effort makes the difference. That ounce is to edit out what can be used against you.

The energy of being mad should be directed above all at editing. A movement in the right direction can achieve a great deal without going too far.

Paul Begala should apologize to Bay Buchanan, Pat and Virgil Goode

The Begala Clinton team should apologize to the 9-11 families for allowing the immigration of Mohamed_Atta after the WTC 1993 attack.

This specific sentence is harder for someone to criticize, but makes the basic point. Its also something Begala didn't do. Instead he insulted Virgil Goode as a bigot and idiot instead of admitting responsibility for letting Atta in to kill the 9-11 victims. Begala should have taken responsibility for letting Atta in instead of calling Goode a bigot and idiot for wanting to keep Atta and future Attas out.

Its usually possible to snip a word out here or there. One way is to focus on a specific wrong doer's name rather than a group. That is a basic concept of this website.

It focuses on the specifics of particular persons and their responsibility. People can or will generalize themselves as they deem best. Getting specific facts right is hard work. A well chosen example that distinguishes appropriately or a few of them can lead people to form their own generalizations.

So try snipping out a couple words that can be used against you or Jihad Watch. This usually leads to better posts that are more specific and bring in new facts.

Politicians and media people like to read about themselves. Many members of Congress and Senators are rarely mentioned in the media. By quoting their votes and their name in full, search engines can find them here. This can lead to action.

A polite quote of a Congressman or Senator, for or against, can be more effective than much else. Their staffs monitor what gets attention on the internet. If their position on Virgil Goode's comments or immigration is what gets noticed, then that has impact.

After that it can be cut and pasted into the local newspaper for that Congressman or Senator in some comment section there. That may be the only such comment on that reps position on that issue. That gives it more impact.

Posted by: Old Atlantic at March 21, 2007 1:25 PM

Re: On some comments disappearing, and more

Robert,

We know they are not disappearing into a black hole. Stephen Hawking's math formulas re black holes set off a decades old battle over the possibility that data could be lost from the Universe into black holes. I understand the scientists have resolved the issue (Hawking agrees that his formulas were mistaken) that data is not lost forever in black holes. So the data erased from DhimmiWatch or JW is out there someplace.

Of course, the scientists were seeking the truth, which is not the same as dealing with CAIR re truth. CAIR people are not very scientific when it comes to dealing with facts they don't like.

It's not CAIR...

http://www.hawking.org.uk/home/hindex.html

Posted by: Frank at March 21, 2007 1:33 PM

There also come times of disagreement with those on your own side. This can produce strong emotion, often stronger at a point in time than feelings about the other side. When you are in the grip of this, take it out on Teddy Kennedy. Or CAIR or the MSM or whomever.

Keep pushing up specific facts and quotes against the real bad guys until you forget about your intramural disagreement. Keep doing positive posts of facts and quotes from the real opponents as a way of posting and when you feel frustration with your side the discipline you have built up will carry you through. This will keep us from engaging in destructive intramural fights.

I am sad that these many posts by this woman and colleague got deleted.

Posted by: Old Atlantic at March 21, 2007 1:39 PM

Well said Robert. Maybe you could construct things so newcomers need to read
your caveat before they can sign up to post. As you have proven time and again,
there is ample ammunition in this fight by using their own words and actions
without resorting to a literary food fight.

_NoMo

Posted by: NoMo at March 21, 2007 1:42 PM

Sorry to run on, but a few more comments.

By using specific names as much as possible, it helps build up neural connections. When one says that Begala should apologize to the 9-11 families for Atta's being allowed to immigrate in, that builds a specific connection or reinforces them in the brain. We know this is how memory works. We link Atta Begala. In this case, the names have a similarity as well.

Linking Atta Begala is more memorable than Muslims Begala. Just because the names are similar, it becomes memorable. There are also timeline associations. When did Atta come in to the US? What was Begala doing in the White House while Atta was training against us? Their lives can be compared by the poster or later by the reader by doing their own research.

The first step in remembering something is to have heard it or learned it in the first place. Books on memory stress this all the time. You can't remember something you never knew.

We want to build up connections in people's minds and on the internet and in the great search engine google, our internet mind, so that these things are linked together. Its important to link Begala to saying Goode was a bigot and idiot because Begala in 1992 said Buchanan was a bigot to want to stop immigration.

When WTC was attacked in 1993, Clinton's team downplayed it because it was done by an immigrant and they just said that Buchanan was a bigot to want to stop immigration. They didn't want to admit Buchanan was right.

By focusing on the interconnections of Begala, Clinton, the WTC 1993 attack, and Begala's insult of Goode in front of Pat Buchanan's sister in Dec 2006 on Wolf Blitzer, its possible to undermine the other side. Building this set of connections is hard work. But once built, people can generalize themselves or form the conclusion that Buchanan was in fact right, and Goode was right, we should stop immigration.
There are a lot of people like Begala's whose statements, lives, corporate speaking fees, etc. can be linked together to build a powerful case of betrayal. This is hard work and time consuming, but is more effective than calling generic greens or blues names.

Posted by: Old Atlantic at March 21, 2007 1:57 PM

Robert

I think you are doing a great job and that goes for Hugh and your staff. As for CAIR using comments to misrepresent what you believe --it sounds like them. As a matter of fact it occured to me: they might even plant some 'sleeper cel' commentators on here at times. To me this is self evident because of the nature of the net. I can see it now: Some guy/gal pro-Israel anti-Islam but pro-moderate muslim and then....one day writes something racist against Arabs etc and acts as if 'i learned it from Spencer' etc. The possiblilities are endless. I think people with even a modicum of intelligence would understand that the comments section are there for people and do not in any way necessarily represent the jihadwatch.org staff opinions. CAIR TAKE NOTE we do not accept your garbage here. Deal with it!

Personally Ive only had one comment delated where I attacked the ahem purity of a burka wearing muslim and I understand that --just as Im sure Robert understands we are human and emotions can get the best of us at times. I had 17 muslim fanatics BORN AND RAISED here in Toronto, Canada trying to bomb several key areas in this city..so yeah items like that can greate on your nerves. Here in Canada we even have universal health care and a giant welfare mechanism in place --its a lazy bums paradise so when I see islamic people spew hatred of Canada it..it irks the hell out of me. I control my comments but I reserve the right to say what I think Islam DOES to these followers of Islam ..it turns them into hateful evil malcontents bent on destroying western freedoms and democracies!

oy!

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at March 21, 2007 2:04 PM

The issue with Hawking deonstrates the truth of the old observation that a great man's mistakes are often more instructive than the certainty of petty dogmas. Hawking's formulas appear to have gotten a whole lot of scientists thinking and it appears the issue re the possibility of data disappearing into a black hole has been resolved. They all agree data is not lost.

The guy who most questioned the Hawking theory is also a close friend of his, which shows an attitude to facts and data and truth that is dissimilar from CAIR. CAIR treats beliefs as scientific fact, not to be questioned.

Posted by: Frank at March 21, 2007 2:08 PM

As long it keeps the JW/DW crew on the watch and the enemies out the gates, I'm all for it. My comments get out of hand too... Great job guys :)

Posted by: squire at March 21, 2007 2:17 PM

out of topic for this thread but I cant resist (Im listening to this right now):

right now on Dennis Prager
ISLAM
interview with Prof Habeck who agrees with Robert that the problem is with Islam itself (she admits that the vast majority of jihadist suicide bombers dont do it out of poverty (they are middle class and up) or other reasons only due to the faith itself):

Dennis Prager right now on conservative radio:
http://radiotime.com/program/p_20170/s_35029/Dennis_Prager_Show_.aspx

if you miss it you can get it at his website -archives I think.

Knowing the Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror (Paperback)
by Mary Habeck

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at March 21, 2007 2:39 PM

Robert

I do agre with everything you say - wise words indeed - the trouble is I like to swear sometimes - nearly always tongue in cheek !!

Well most of the time tongue in cheek !

Posted by: johnmac at March 21, 2007 2:59 PM

I don't apologize for any comments I have made here. It is freedom of speech. A right that many muslims would like to strip from infidels.

It is perfectly acceptable to muslims especially the jihadists to call nonmuslims pigs, apes, kaffirs , infidels etc but when they have some names thrown in their direction, they don't like. Too Bad CAIR and others.

Posted by: callmeinfidel at March 21, 2007 3:12 PM

Submission.

It is interesting that Islam has had such an effect on us that we will throw out anything slightly associated to its culture. One such aspect is that of “submission”.

Somewhere along the way, a person was forced to submit against good conscience. So what? Yes people can abuse authority, mobs can rule, and power can corrupt. That still doesn’t make “submission” entirely a candidate for the scrap heap. We all have to submit to something, like it or not, whether the laws of the land, employers, legal guardians, etcetera and yes there is even a place for it to be honorably employed within ‘one another’ relationships like friendships and marriage.

On this forum, we ‘submit’ comments at the mercy of oft-busy moderators. That a comment may get deleted should come as no surprise. We do not own the site. Most of us appreciate what JW/DW has to offer in terms of the daily updates on global jihad, modern dhimmitude, and sides of the story that we will never get via the MSM. So we willingly submit to the rules under which we all, and mostly our cause, will benefit. Here we all surrender our guns at the door knowing full well that if it comes down to blows, we can take it outside.

Thanks Robert, Hugh, and team for your leadership in the fight worth fighting.

End of submission.

-XRDC

Posted by: XRDC at March 21, 2007 3:33 PM

"...this will remain Jihad Watch, not PC Watch or Annoying Music Watch or Immigration Watch or Crimes Against Muslims Watch or anything else people might want to make it into."

Well said as usual.

Posted by: alexon at March 21, 2007 5:13 PM

i think that when we comment here, we should remember that we do so as the guests of JW, and behave accordingly.
i apologise for any bad behaviour on my part in the past, and promise to try to do better in the future.
thank you for the vital work you are doing.

Posted by: M Al-Content at March 21, 2007 5:13 PM

Robert, Hugh and the crew of JW, thank you for the site. For me it is really educational. I have never ever liked Islam for many reasons. Your site has confirmed my opinion million times over, however.

I also enjoyed some cracks here. I think we ought to keep things light hearted from time to time. I must admit that I will miss AIG, she was cool. She gave some nifty earned value opinions.

I think she was probably very hurt about whatever happened, I guess equally surprised about your reaction. I hope she will be allowed to return and that she will.

Thanks for the guide-lines to follow and reasons why, which I did not from time to time. I get a tad-bit emotional when I read how Muslims are continuing their agenda in the name of their religion 'Islam', hence in some cases my posting reflects that...I never ever want Islamic laws in any flavor in the USA. I will do everything in my power to stop that.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at March 21, 2007 5:29 PM

1. Don't provide ammunition to those who are working against us should be an easy principle to follow. I thank Robert and the folks at JW for spending what little time they have in trying to keep this site running smoothly.

2. With regard to the distinction between the problematic aspects of PC and Islam, respectively, the analogy of baker vs auto mechanic is not accurate. Those are two completely different vocations, whereas dealing with Islam in the west requires addressing PC at least some of the time. PC--or whatever one may call it--is, it seems to me, tied closely to the problem, particularly in the west, of confronting Islamic imperialist and supremacist elements in an open, honest, rational, fact-based way. How many times has Robert, for example, commented on the fact that many news articles fail to identify "extremists," "youths," etc., where such identification would be helpful and informative to the reader, and where such identifying information would have otherwise been provided had the suspect been a member of any other religion or political group than Islam? Also see Robert's refutation of "PC Myths" of Islam, in his The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam. Like it or not, PC will continue to be a factor to be reckoned with whenever we discuss such issues, and cannot be put aside as though it were an irrelevant topic.

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at March 21, 2007 5:30 PM

Deleting all a person's comments can make it confusing when browsing the archives. I know it has happened here before as a form of punishment, but I don't think it's a good idea, unless they specifically request it.

When deleting a small number of comments, it might be better to just replace the text with "comment deleted" or something like that.

Posted by: Cheeky Human at March 21, 2007 5:35 PM

Khaybar, Khaybar

(...ya yahud...)

Anyway, Khaybar,

I did not say PC was not relevant. I discuss it here when it is. But it is not, and will not be, the primary focus of this site.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at March 21, 2007 5:35 PM

This site has been an absolute eye opener for me. I have been educated about Islam from Robert, Hugh and the mainly civil, posters. Now when I hear people speak about the bible has evil verses, that was taken out of context, etc. etc. I have a ready, logical retort. Long may the site continue to grow and grow.

Posted by: cathkins at March 21, 2007 5:47 PM

Robert, thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at March 21, 2007 5:49 PM

Cheeky Human,

As you may have read above, the former poster in question did specifically request it, and sealed the deal -- somewhat bizarrely after an apology -- with what is now a series of hostile and abusive emails following upon...nothing at all from me.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at March 21, 2007 5:54 PM

Quite frankly i stand by all my comments as if my feet are in cement. I couldn't give one care what an organization like .c.a.i.r thinks of my comments.My comments have my name at the bottom not Roberts or Hughs....mine.

Orgs. like c.a.i.r know how sites like these work and in fact if the shoe were on the other foot c.a.i.r would use every trick in it's book and every excuse to defend thier site.

I don't come to this site or go to any other to cater to the likes of c.a.i.r. .I am not into word matches and games i tell how i feel and why i feel it.

As far as name (calling) goes and isults,well excuse me but i too am offended on a daily basis by islam and hear no words of condemnation of it from the likes of c.a.i.r.

If it's the 'moderates' of islam that are offended then there too i am offended as well at thier repeated silence and lack of interest of the events of the last four years.

I fail to see how i give ammo to an enemy or an abetter of it(same damn difference)by pointing out how rediculous they are or how deserving they are of the hell they have and will have in the future.They are the enemy i will refuse to cater to them.

If my comments give these people ammo to point at and say :see look this is how this guy is after we attacked his country and try to take it over from inside, or if shown to the government with the comment attached: see how this guy acts towards the enemy within due to your lack of anything worthwhile to stop such a blatant attack.

One who wishes me to stay silent and roll over is one wishless person.I have never nor do i plan to play politics and games with the islamic hooey and nut jobs.Too many decades and centuries not to mention billions upon billions of dollars and how about the millions of innocent lives that have been squandered on the rediculousness of islam?

I have no intention of appeasing these people,i show the kindness i am shown.When c.a.i.r and the other abetters change thier tune i will change mine.

Who is c.a.i.r anyway? They have only one agenda and it includes me,my country and my friends's countries.

One last thing before i find out if i am to be ammo martyred for the cause of c.a.i.r and that is that one can change the wording of how they feel but at the end of the day the guy,this guy, sitting at this end of the computer means all they have ever posted and more in the most sincere way.There may have been times when it was borderline overboard but i still meant it and always will.

Do not ever wish to get submission from me because i live to go forward not backwards.

And all that jazz.

Do not forget to support the ANTI CAIR site!!!

Posted by: Dar al-harb at March 21, 2007 6:36 PM

Robert, let me echo the many thank-yous for this site voiced above. I have learned so much, both here and from the links to other sites. Kudos to you and the crew.

While I'm applauding let me stand and add a round for any and all attempts to increase civility on the web. Let us leave the vitrol throwing to the moonba...excuse me, left of center types who get their adrenalin rush from it.

Let us also work (and pray, "Laborare est orare.") for the day when you can turn your attention to other matters and this can become: "Peoplewhostareatgreenlightsasifthey'veneverseenonebeforeWatch.org"

Posted by: USBeast at March 21, 2007 6:40 PM

Hello Mr. Sprncer

I, nabi ZK, he of numerous self applied accolades, am certainly guilty of throwing the term muzlo or muzli(pl) about in this forum. My view is that they must be held up to ridicule although I agree that we should endevor not to be actively stupid in these efforts. In this, perhaps, I have failed.

In the future I shall refer to them as mohametans since it is my view that they worship mohamet. I will, however, not confer any degree of respect or reverence or even legitimacy on the mohametan texts or beliefs which call for my murder and the murder of those dear to me.

I devoutely wish grevious harm and calamity on the entire ummah and I do feel that every single drop of blood shed in the jihad will have to be accounted for as well as all the "occupied territories", and I'm not talkiing Israel. I would seek reparations and the return of property before war, but that's just me.

Although nabi ZK does not call for genocide he fully expects massive casualties on all sides, but especially the mohametan side, as the current little dust up with the mohametans continues. Unfortunately, I am now disputing the repair bill for my crystal ball which remains in the shop. And so I can't be absolutely sure about any of this. Again, I don't demand retribution for historical crimes, but who can deny that sometimes that's the way it goes when former victims gain the upper hand.

Aside from these reactionary views my other sins probably relate to frequent and loud disputes with seemzies and other assorted mohametans and trolls, whose comments sometimes provoke an incoherently hostile reaction from me.

Please remove all posts which I have made to this forum since they definitely contain numerous violations of the suggested guidelines for civility.

In the future I will discontinue the offending nick names for followers of the mohametan meteorite cult. I will try to make plain that, while I believe, nay foreee with Kreskin like nabified accuracy (for what that's worth), that the utter ruin and destruction of the mohametans is just around the corner, and I won't shed a tear either, this is not something that I actively advocate.

On the other hand don't just hand the launch codes to nabi ZK either. He is usually quite reasonable but might go off on some comment by seemzies or other mohametan supremacist.

nabi ZK

Posted by: zonie kafir at March 21, 2007 6:41 PM

When I am at home and have just seen some atrocity reported on television and then practically in the same breathe I am told that it is wrong to mention the name of my enemy and that they are to be welcomed with open arms and not obstructed from their activates in any way in case it should offend them I sometimes feel a little ticked.

Perhaps I should type it out in a word file save it and post it the next day.

Posted by: LivingVictory at March 21, 2007 7:46 PM

Throwing water on the campfire to hide from the enemy may dim our collective fire, but it also generates less light, less heat and less protection from the wolves that are lurking around the periphery of the campfire.

The Islamofascists (a term coined by Michael Savage) would love nothing better than to silence those who would sound the alarm against their attack on our way of life. These same enemies of America and the free world want to intimidate us through terror, or make us fearful of litigation for exercising our civil rights.

Scholarship and intellectual discourse about the history and ideology of these Islamofascists will only lead to an intellectual understanding of the enemy. Scholars and intellectuals, no doubt, eschew the heated response commoners, like me, have to the very real threat that Islam represents to America. Few intellectuals or scholars will fight anything other than a war of words; average, hardy, impassioned commoners who love freedom and freedom of speech and choice, will rise to the occassion of trouncing the enemy and sending these Islamic tyrants back to their barbaric paradises.

Diluting the fervor of the masses against this enemy, curbing unfettered speech and allowing fear of reprisal to paralyze the free exchange of ideas and responses to the problem of Islamic extremism (and Islam, in general)allows the enemy to accomplish the very thing they most desire. Our silence.

I, for one, will exercise my right to free speech. I will not be coerced, intimidated or persuaded that passion against our enemies is not a strength and necessity.

You may censor at will, as is your perogative. However, once you begin to chip away at the freedom of thought and expression displayed on this sight, you will find that the circumference of Islamic tyranny against free speech draws ever tighter and more restrictive.

Posted by: BurkasforHitlery at March 21, 2007 8:03 PM

Dear C.A.I.R and anyone else who has been offended by any post signed with Dar Al-Harb. I personaly and wholely am resposible for my words,not Robert,Hugh or any other memeber of JW. They were my thoughts that moved my own hands,none other.

With all that said i cannot find it within myself to form an apology.I find no need for an apology. I live in the land of freedom where any and all have the same freedoms as i have,even those who have not earned them,even those who do not legaly live here have and use them.

I utterly refuse to allow any one group or entity to deny me of my God given rights.While i understand the hurtful feelings that come with name calling and things of that nature i too am aware of the comparisons given in your holy text of other faiths and ethnicities and to the animals from which certain peoples have evolved.There can be a lot said of the monkeys and pigs and thier successes as compared to that of the perfect umma of islam.Let it not be said that Dar Al-harb has no compassion as to not go into further comment of these things.This is after all not meant to be a hurtful post.

Let us not forget to look at such orgs. as c.a.i.r though and thier failings, i will not be going into detail over this as i will expect you will pause and take a little inner view of yourselves and perhaps see these failings being fair and sound minded peoples.

I will give you a little insight into dar la-harb and his quick view (for posting sake).I realize of my own education of the past few decades of personal expierience and of learned expierience what islam is really about.I have discovered islam to be a very problamatic entity.It is one that feels it to be superior and above all others with only the intention of being over and above all else.

What should be realized in my posts is more dissapointment from my own gov. and those of our allies for decade after decade appeasing an entity with no desire than it's own continual harmful escapades.I have never been naieve enough to expect anything different from islam.I am big enough of a man to admit my gov. has corruption,favoratism and the like.However i find also there to be no idea that any islamic entity of any sect can possibly be corrupt and all the things my gov. is,not by any muslim i have ever heard.Perhaps this has something to do with the threat of death to insinuate such a thing in islam.This in my opinion is the highest of corruption i believe one to find,the corruption of another own mind.

I will admit that i cannot say i have found anything good in islam.I can't imagine what it would be.One could say the unity of the umma but i take into account how this unity is brought about and refer you back to the corrupting of the mind.

There is a lot to be said of an entity or religion that is totaly and undeniably faithful to thier God.Also though there can be a lot said of the ways such piousness is encouraged.

I see myself as an honest man as i wish for people to tell me the truth,i wish to tell them the truth.In doing so one it seems time and again is labeled a racist,bigot,islamaphobe.If a man steals and it is a fact that he steals then he is a thief.There are many things about islam that are said with facts ,things you will find here at JW,that prove this point all too well.I persoanlly am preparred to be labeled whatever the label may be but if what i said were facts then i stand by my own words.

I know what goes on these days.It is a religious war because islam made it a religious war.I kinow there are factions out doing the physical harm and there are the factions that are in the enemies midsts fighting for ground....a foot hold.Either way you look at it it is war no other words political or whatever kind but war.

What the umma is doing in it's fight for privalages above everyone else here in the west is a war.We see it ,we are smart enough to know it.You do not fool anyone.

Some of my posts perhaps can come off a little "infedel jihadist" like but in a way perhaps the muslims will understand it that way when i mean to say that no political cedeing will give away this nation and that there are people prepared to do what it takes to keep it the way our forefathers under our God meant it to be.This can include islam maybe one day when it gets over itself but until then at no time do i see an islamic vision in my country.

The offence is on you for not proving to people like me that islam can work intertwined with the west.To this day all C.A.I.R has ever worried about is what the muslims want like we are having a rights give away program.Nothing can be farther from the truth.In fact the more rights taken from the free ,as the war on terror has,the harder the free will fight.

AS far as people like the heads of Iran stating that they can bring peace to the world if given a chance,or ceded and submitted to,is ludicrous as is the same call from any islamic state in the world.This is not meant to be an insult this is meant to be a fact.I suggest the muslim world go back and rethink what they have to offer and what they have given and see just how many takers will be standing in line.

And all that jazz,.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at March 21, 2007 8:22 PM

I always find myself out of the loop on the gossip, probably because I spend every spare moment at work that I can closing my door and reading JW, with a convenient excel spreadsheet or wordperfect document always at the ready to click on to cover up JW when the inevitable rude co-worker fails to knock and barges on in unexpectedly. Thank God I don't work in a cubicle!

Anyway I missed the whole brouhaha about the female poster and was going to politely inquire who it was just to get caught up on the gossip but now I am somewhat shocked to see from the comments here that it was AIG. I don't even know what thread this occurred on but I am really saddened by the news. Whatever happened the fact is that AIG was a one woman tour-de-force here for a very long time. I loved logging in at work when I usually cannot post and seeing her take on every troll. Apparently in the end that fighting spirit got the better of her and she turned on Robert. Whatever happened, maybe when she calms down she will consider sneaking back, somewhat chastened, under a different moniker. It's happened before.

As to the posts, and the importance of editing before hitting that post button, it can indeed feel like one's living room after awhile and one can just sort of forget. I wish I could stop the cussing, even though I know enough to put the **** in to break it up. I'll keep working at it.

I am reminded of some fashion advice supposedly given by the designer Coco Chanel. A lady should put on all her jewelry and accessories and then look in the mirror and take one thing off before stepping out the door for the evening. It sounds like good advice although I've never had much use for it as I tend to keep my jewelry very simple and discrete in the first place. In terms of editing my posts though, it sounds like good advice! I could certainly start by previewing and then removing that one cussword (even if disguised with ***) before walking out the door. Call it the "Chanel guide to posting at JW".

Posted by: Caroline at March 21, 2007 9:18 PM

It is time for the Counter-Jihad to begin. Countering the jihadists who encroach on our civil liberties in the name of their faux religion.

Counter-Jihad against the hate speech against infidels that is prostelytized in some of the 1,200 mosques in our country.

Counter-Jihad against the PC censorship that is restraining the truth from being spoken in our newspapers, town halls and in our Congress.

Counter-Jihad against the moneyed influence of the wealthy Arab Islamists who want to seed pro-Islamic public policy, legislation and tolerance for not separate, but equal, but separate and superior Sharia tyranny.

Counter-Jihad, is that hate speech? No, it is a term like "counter-insurgents," is it not? The counter-insurgents that CNN and MSNBC and the media legitimize on a daily basis. Then, why, should CAIR or any other pro-Islamic rights' group oppose the free speech of the Counter-Jiahdists?

If there is a jihad, can there not be a counter movement? Or, is it unlawful to speak of such things?

Posted by: BurkasforHitlery at March 21, 2007 9:19 PM

BurkasforHitlery - I've always thought of it as "anti-jihad" and "counter-da'wa". On the other hand, I don't recall a very formal discussion regarding the most appropriate terms for this "resistance" movement to the global jihad. Which, come to think of it, actually says alot. The first thing any totalitarian movement agrees upon is its Orwellian totalitarian language. Because their ultimate aim is to manipulate. The very fact that we have never agreed upon any formal language for what we are fighting demonstrates that we are not totalitarians. Rather, we are sort of stumbling around trying to come to terms with the fact that our freedoms are seriously jeapordized and we haven't even come up with any consistent terminology to describe that fact (aside from the ridiculous "war on terror".) This is clear evidence that we are the ones fighting a defensive war. It sort of seems doubtful that we could actually create totalitarian propoganda if we tried. Maybe that's a good thing.

Posted by: Caroline at March 21, 2007 9:37 PM

I've been coming here long enough to remember the days when you did not have to register to comment. Back then there were more Muslims commenting.Though these Muslims clearly spoke English as a second language they usually represented themselves as either American or British converts to Islam.It was amusing to see people trying to pass themselves off as American or British in hopes of appearing more credible. When their dishonesty discredited anything they might say about Islam. There were also spammers usually Nazi antisemites who were here supporting Islam with their spam.The move to registration largely ended the spamming problem, its also resulted in an increase in the level of sophistication of the Muslims trolls who post here.Though I can usually spot the Muslim trolls even when they claim to be anti-Jihad.

I remember at one time there was talk of ending comments. I'm glad the comments remain as I've learned some interesting information from some of the posters here.I think its important to have a place where people can speak freely about Islam, jihad, sharia and the threat of Islamofascism without the burden of PC garbage that exists on some other sites.As its the internet that is largely responsible for exposing the true nature of Islam.It also gives me pleasure knowing how upset CAIR and other Islamic supremists are that there are infidels who dare to criticize Islam.

Posted by: Roxane at March 21, 2007 10:06 PM

Robert --

I completely agree that we need to be mindful of what we say, which is why I would like you to please put a stop to all the gossip that you started about a certain poster.

Racial slurs hurt -- and so does gossip -- it hurts just as much. Thank you.

Posted by: champ at March 22, 2007 2:02 AM

I also agree with Robert's remarks. if people follow them I will read more of the comments myself.

However I have no regrets about anything I have said here, as I have tried to be mindful of the other person when posting.

Unless you annoy me of course...

Posted by: payingattention at March 22, 2007 4:20 AM

DebV,

O, c'mon, re-consider. Everyone at some time has no doubt posted something to which he or she may later have felt regret...(as in "oops" probably shouldn't have written that...) I don't know of anyone who's "pure" and "angelic" at all times.

But, frankly, I don't understand all the apologies, etc (especially when I read ZK's -- ZK, imo, doesn't have to apologize to anyone.)

Also, it's the nature of discussion boards to get heated comments. (I've read far more vicious things at so-called Leftist sites.)

Anyway, I'd also like to say that I find many of the comments truly instructive. (The other day there were comments posted from a person living in Spain -- he/she discussed how Spanish converts, following a Sufi convert, were manipulating the system...These are first-hand glimpses of what's going on in Europe, that you won't get from reading the Mainstream Media. I think this is quite informative...as are many, many other posted comments, including yours DebV -- so I hope you'll re-consider and continue to post.)

Posted by: J.S. at March 22, 2007 10:25 AM

ZK, imo, doesn't have to apologize to anyone....

Well now J.S., I did make a post yesterday in which I suggested that the false prophet mohamet of the well known death cult was abused as a child, taking it up the old pooper from his uncle Abu Talib. This could be a possible explaination for the halucinations and insane violence and the particular edict, so often quoted, that islam is to dominate and not be dominated.

Such commentary could certainly be considered over the line. Replace the term 'mohametan' with the more derogatory 'muzlo' and you can see that this does not convey a great deal of respect for the death cult itself.

:)

Additionally I have asked the mods to remove my previous posts because this will increase the average IQ of the archives significantly.

believe it or else...

nabi ZK

In all seriousity, Mr. Spencer, Hugh, Marisol, and the others who run this site are making an invaluable contribution to the survival of western civilization. We should not throw tacks into the path before them.

Posted by: zonie kafir at March 22, 2007 11:05 AM

My final thoughts on this topic - I do think that as posters, we shouldn't be creating extra non-Jihad related work for Robert/Hugh/Marisol/Anne/Greg by quizzing them about other posters, getting them delete all our posts just because we're miffed, or other such distractions. Comments are optional - albeit informative and entertaining - but the above staff shouldn't have to have one eye over their shoulder to see what's going on in commentsland. On the occasions that our posts are deleted, we should be mature about that, and either ignore it and keep posting, taking into account any requests made to us from the mods, or else, if we can't, simply disappear, with or without a parting statement. I've had posts of mine disappear in the past, and didn't think twice about it, although I did make the mistake of asking why certain other comments by others were deleted that imo were non-offensive.

The important thing to remember is that much as we may like each other, this site is not about us. Granted, many of us do come here and re-visit recent threads to see whether any new comments have been made, and by whom, and about what. And we may also discuss personal Jihad related issues, like what to do about kids being indoctrinated (luckily, hasn't happened to mine so far), or colleagues washing their feet in the restroom sink (like in my workplace). But we do cross a line when the hosts feel a need to warn us, or edit or delete our comments. They should feel comfortable enough about letting the comments section be on auto-pilot, rather than having to micro-manage what gets posted, and who posts.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 22, 2007 11:59 AM

The point that Robert is trying to make is that this web-site is being monitored by forces who will want to use our words against us.

Letting anger out is one thing. I am as mad as hell at the islamic world. My personal opinion of the religion is not favorable and I do believe that wherever muslims are in the majority, there is only horror and misery. Case in point: all over the mid-east.

I also find the Koran (which I have not read up to 60%) and extremely poorly written, incoherent, rambling, sexist, racist and hate-espousing text and do not believe that the Koran espouses the same God as the christians and jews do. They may wish to "honor" Abraham and Jesus, but by trying to ram Mohammed down our throats as the only true messenger of God, they have already defeated their own point. There is not one shred of evidence in the Koran of the love of God that is explicity described, and often, in both testaments. What one does find is raw hatred and a license to subdue or kill. It is, for my way of thinking, ego in it's worst form.

Any muslim who thinks he can prove me wrong can revert to the use of logic and reasonable dialog in order to try to convince me of his viewpoint. I sincerely doubt that will happen. More likely is that a bunch of muslims will scream bloody murder at the top of their lungs, insulted and irritated as they apparently are, 24/7. That is, however, not my problem.

Posted by: bonncaruso at March 22, 2007 12:50 PM

Infidel Pride -- she was banned from JW & DW over a silly argument.

Posted by: champ at March 22, 2007 12:55 PM

awake wrote above: "As far as people trying to persuade Robert and Hugh to change the focus, it is not feasible. Robert and Hugh are learned scholars of Islam, not PC multiculturalism." And Robert Spencer wrote above: "But it [PC] is not, and will not be, the primary focus of this site."

PC need not become the primary focus of this site, even as the odd poster who thinks it should be, and expresses this opinion intelligently and maturely, is permitted to register said opinion. Why should the presence of maturely and intelligently expressed alternative opinions (within a Comments field already formally and explicitly separated from the main body of Jihad Watch) about the proper scope of the anti-Islam movement of which Jihad Watch is a part, and their official toleration (in the context of the official disassociation of Jihad Watch from the Comments) have a deleterious effect at all upon the mission of Jihad Watch? Indeed, their odd presence would rather have a salutary effect on readers who see that some posters in the Comments sections maturely and intelligently, albeit at times vigorously, differ in certain respects from the official writers on Jihad Watch. What's the harm, as long as the vigorous opinions are expressed intelligently and maturely? It seems to be much ado about not much at all.

Posted by: remote_control at March 22, 2007 1:18 PM

Christians are suppose to love one another -- not hate each other -- that's what some Muslims are famous for.

Posted by: champ at March 22, 2007 4:25 PM

Robert,

As usual, very honest, very honorable, yet very naive appeal from you.

Face it, this site will always have despeakable comments for CAIR to use - because CAIR people will leave them. Until people like you grow own legal muscles and start sueing provocateurs, intimidators and outright liers, this will continue.

You were publicly called hosting a hate site by identified CAIR officials. That is a terrible insult to a scholar of your integrity. You need to get a few millions of their Saudi money from them for that insult - you can donate the money to charities after that. And do it again and again.

Posted by: Terry Crane at March 22, 2007 5:18 PM

nabi ZK,

I think any number of historians have done psycho-sexual analysis of world figures (I believe there was one psychologist who devoted his entire career to psycho-historical analysis -- although, this approach is now considered "dated"). "The Prophet" should not be an exception -- as far as I'm concerned, it's a OK line of inquiry.

Bernard Lewis also made some interesting remarks upon acceptance of an academic award. He stated: "They [Muslims] have a left-wing appeal to the anti-U.S. elements in Europe, for whom they have so-to-speak replaced the Soviets. They have a right-wing appeal to the anti-Jewish elements in Europe, replacing the Axis. They have been able to win considerable support under both headings. For some in Europe, their hatreds apparently outweigh their loyalties." Indeed, it seems that for some Europeans, they would rather express their hatreds (against Americans, etc) than express their loyalty to western civilization.

Lewis also noted that what many Muslims have going for them is fervency and zeal. The latter is all too often lacking in the West...another reasons why I appreciate the forcefully expressed (passionate) comments of those defending the west and/or opposed to Islamic intolerances.

Posted by: J.S. at March 22, 2007 5:55 PM