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So says Anna Mulrine in "Exclusive: Iranians Had Showdown With U.S. Forces" in U.S. News (thanks to Doc Washburn):
As the British government demanded the immediate release of 15 of its sailors whose boats were seized by Iranian naval vessels in the Persian Gulf on Friday, U.S. News has learned that this is not the first showdown that coalition forces have had with the Iranian military.According to a U.S. Army report out of Iraq obtained by U.S. News, American troops, acting as advisers for Iraqi border guards, were recently surrounded and attacked by a larger unit of Iranian soldiers, well within the border of Iraq.
The report highlights the details: A platoon of Iranian soldiers on the Iraqi side of the border fired rocket-propelled grenades and used small arms against a joint patrol of U.S. and Iraqi soldiers east of Balad Ruz. Four Iraqi Army soldiers, one interpreter, and one Iraqi border policeman remain unaccounted for after the September incident in eastern Diyala, 75 miles east of Baghdad.
During a joint border patrol, both American and Iraqi soldiers saw two Iranian soldiers run from Iraq back across the Iranian border as they approached. The patrol then came upon a single Iranian soldier, on the Iraqi side of the border, who did not flee.
While the joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol was speaking with the soldier, according to the report, the patrol was "approached by a platoon-size element of Iranian soldiers." An Iranian border captain then told the U.S. and Iraqi soldiers that "if they tried to leave their location, the Iranians would fire upon them." During this conversation with the Iranian captain, Iranian forces began firing and continued when U.S. troops tried to withdraw.
Iraqi and American forces returned fire "to break contact and left the area to report the incident," the report noted. "The Iranian forces continued to fire indirect fire well into Iraq as Coalition Force soldiers withdrew; for reasons unknown at this time, the Iraqi Army forces remained behind."
No American soldiers were wounded in the incident.
It is possible that Iranians thought they were in Iranian territory, according to U.S. military officials. Such border confusions and disputes happen routinely.
Posted by Robert at March 24, 2007 8:18 AM
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Can the American soldiers trust the Iraqi soldiers with them not to be agents of Iran, or to change sides once surrounded by Iranians? How likely is it that Iraqis who are Shi'a feel they have more in common with the non-Muslim Americans than with those they have so much in common with, and with whom they may have walked side by side on a pilgrimage to Karbala, a year or five years before?
The bomb that exploded in the "private mosque" of the Sunni Vice-President, Mr. Zubaie, which also killed his brother, five of his own security guards, and the imiam, was apparently set off by one of the security guards who had turned, or perhaps never was to be trusted.
Now ask this: if a Sunni, living in Iraq, cannot tell whom he can trust, cannot be sure of his own security guards and is almost killed by the bomb set off by one of them, how can the Americans conceivably tell friend from false friend from foe? How?
It can't be done.
It is cruel, it is wrong, to expect American soldiers to be able to do this. Anyone can come up with a "mission" and then assign that "mission" and then talk about how that "mission" is to be completed. But there is a reality: the reality of Islam, the reality of deception, the reality of impossible weapons dumps to guard (that weren't guarded) the reality of trying to pacify several different groups that lack any sense of compromise and will not, cannot, come to some understanding that non-Muslim peoples might be able to, the reality of the "war is deception" that is ingrained and practiced, above all, against those kindly, naive, incredibly innocent and ignorant American officers and men, still trying to complete an impossible "mission" put on them by Bush and his advisers who, at home, prate about the wonderfulness of Islam, and at Eid al-fitr, tell us - Bush and Karen Hughes have told us -- about how splendidly the three "abrahamic" faiths get along, and always have, and always will.
This is intolerable.
Posted by: Hugh![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at March 24, 2007 8:46 AM
This sounds remarkably similar to the actions of China during the Vietnam War. I would hope, that this time, our government, would allow our soldiers to win this war; including going after the Iranians if they are violating borders and attacking our troops.
Considering the outrageous bill that was recently passed in the House though, I am left with the sense that our own government is on the side of the terrorists, and not the citizens of the United States. Shame on our government!!!
Posted by: Monkeywho at March 24, 2007 8:54 AM
I hate repeating myself, but this won't take long:
Fire 1
Fire 2
Fire 3
Posted by: Foehammer at March 24, 2007 9:04 AM
Amen, Foehammer. Let's get this thing done already.
Posted by: igetit at March 24, 2007 9:12 AM
let it begin, iranian has new glass parking lots.
at March 24, 2007 9:53 AM
There is no need for the use of nuclear weapons unless they use them first, and Tehran sshould not be the target, Qom comes to mind as a better target, the fact is that there is a huge amount of people in Iran totally fed up with Islam, all we need to do it destroy the regime, take out the extremists and then we have a large number of people in that area who will have had their fill of Islam.
I think that the Iranian government is ready to fall, I do not think it will be painless, but it will not be as hard as some people think.
The most important part of the struggle will be the sea combat in the gulf, we will suffer losses, but we will do what is necessary, then we have free reign in a target rich environment.
Posted by: Daffersd at March 24, 2007 10:02 AM
This is remeniscent of Hitler's move into the Rhineland - will the west step up to the challenge or will we invite further provocations. It is a test of the will, and we can only hope that Iran is wrong to think this will be tolerated. But is Iran wrong for thinking that... ???
Posted by: BunrattyBill at March 24, 2007 10:12 AM
So will Bush allow the Iranians to sue the American personnel in American courts and put them in jail as he allows the mexican government to do to US border agents who try to protect the American border?
Posted by: witness at March 24, 2007 10:19 AM
Would we have overthrown a Communist regime during the Cold War and replaced it with another Communist regime, claiming it was more democratic and reflected the true and peaceful Communism?
Make you miss the clarity of those days. Even Vietnam had a North and a South with a line in between, and you had a good idea of who the good guys and the bad guys were.
Today you can tell the bad guys: they're the ones with the black keffiyehs.
at March 24, 2007 10:53 AM
I do not understand the new fangled way of waging "war", it's a "king's X" type game.
"Do not defend yourself"
"Consult the ROE"
"Break the rules, go to jail"
"Mosques are ""home"" (safe area)
Why don't we use the methods that our fore-fathers used with success?
I am beginning to wonder if this is a ruse, make the American and British people think we are resisting...all the while sliding towards islam.
see Iftar dinner
calling islam RoP:reg;
etc.
Just wondering outloud....
at March 24, 2007 11:21 AM
Anyone out there think the poison pet food is a trial balloon?
It appears so easy to mess with our food supply...
at March 24, 2007 12:25 PM
For those who think this is convenient in the Iranian incursions into Iraq happening now, the Iranians have been invading Iraq for over a year but the reports have been stopped. They have raided Iraqi villages before, but no protests were made as it would mean expanding the war.
For those claiming President Bush wants to attack Iran, he has ample incidents the past year and has not acted.
As far as Iraqi troops, it depends just like on all troops their ability. There is a reason the US Army sends in the 3rd ID and not the Ohio National Guard as the weekend warriors are just that. They have their place but are not capable.
There are very good Iraqi and Afghanistan troops and militias. It is not about telling "good from bad" as the proof is no US soldiers have been kidnapped nor murdered since imbedding has taken place. The American advisor is supreme and has a long history of logistics work from France in WW II, Vietnam and to the Afghanistan liberation which America only had a few thousand troops as in under 2,000 operating in the theater.
These advisors are not the go out for a pepsi out of the Green Zone nor cuddle up with the local girl types. They are elite and the best. They speak the language on ground and can spot a problem child as quickly as a police officer can in a traffic stop.
People need to start talking to the troops who aren't talking as they give the best assessment of the situation as they understand it. They are only complaining about 2 things.
1. Americans complaining about the war.
2. The policy of not using firepower to the maximum to get the job done.
Oh and the reason President Bush has not acted before on Iran was Iran purchased several SS 20 Satan warheads (nuclear) and he knows a Shahab will end up in the Green Zone, Qatar and Tel Aviv which means a full scale American response.
As Lincoln said, "One war at a time".
Posted by: Lame Cherry at March 24, 2007 12:27 PM
Sorry RS but this is important-
From an AP article:
Rosowsky speculated that the substance (aminopterin) would not show up in pet food "unless somebody put it there."
at March 24, 2007 12:29 PM
link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070323/ap_on_re_us/pet_food_recall
at March 24, 2007 12:33 PM
@interestinconundrum:
Worth noting that many companies that manufacture pet foods also produce cereals, etc.
Poisoning foodstuffs has always been a serious threat. The FBI better get on this with a large team and find the culprits. If they can kill pets in this manner and not get caught, they can just as easily poison people.
Posted by: Foehammer at March 24, 2007 12:36 PM
interestinconundrum--
The possibility of sabotage in the pet food case has certainly crossed my mind (along with many other people), though the last I heard seemed to point to a Chinese supplier of wheat gluten. But if that should change, and it looks jihad-related, we'll certainly cover it.
Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor
at March 24, 2007 12:45 PM
I see this action and the British soldier kidnapping as an effort on Iran's part to get a rise out of the United States and start a war in Iran. He really wants that 12th imam to come back. (At this point I suspect his life depends on this happening fairly soon now.)
With that in mind note these two press briefings at Defense Link that my partner pointed me towards when I mentioned this thesis to him. On the first page maybe a third of the way down is a reference to "200,000 people" all together in the Centcom area fighting this war in Iraq. Then it goes on to mention another 2 million soldiers available for call-up if needed.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=3911
On the second page, from February, General Pace makes the same comment in more detail about 75% to 80% down the page.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=3890
Sure we can deal with any required offensive in Iran. Of course, it won't be pretty and quick as Iraq was. Some of the equipment is old. So we may end up using surplus WW-II and Vietnam era iron bombs without all the precision guidance gizmos we prefer to use lately. It'd involve months of carpet bombing.
The audience for these comments is assuredly Iran. And I believe they have heard and are still trying to accomplish two things, take some heat off their soldiers in Iraq and simultaneously get a war response from us. Unfortunately that would be a little rough on the Iranian citizenry. So the word of what could come if we are sufficiently provoked should get out to them so they can elect to die trying to prevent us from seeing a need to bomb any of Iran for months on end with non-precision weapons or to die when we do strike. The former has a lower chance of their death. Of course, they could take the third approach, "Get out of Dodge before the gunfight." That is, of course, if they are able to.
{^_^}
Posted by: jdow at March 24, 2007 1:02 PM
Robert wrote:
"It can't be done.
It is cruel, it is wrong, to expect American soldiers to be able to do this. Anyone can come up with a "mission" and then assign that "mission" and then talk about how that "mission" is to be completed. But there is a reality: the reality of Islam, the reality of deception, the reality of impossible weapons dumps to guard (that weren't guarded) the reality of trying to pacify several different groups that lack any sense of compromise and will not, cannot, come to some understanding that non-Muslim peoples might be able to, the reality of the "war is deception" that is ingrained and practiced, above all, against those kindly, naive, incredibly innocent and ignorant American officers and men"
--> OK, fair enough -- but what do we do? Opererate by ourselves, in a vacuum? That's also impossible. Seems the issue is not trusting the few Iraqis who fight alongside us, it's abandoning the 'shock and awe' mentality.
at March 24, 2007 1:14 PM
@Marisol:
"last I heard seemed to point to a Chinese supplier of wheat gluten."
Last I heard the substance was rat poison. Now, I haven't looked into the details, but it certainly seems that something like rat poison doesn't get into foodstuffs on its own in such amounts to kill 16+ adult pets, both cats and dogs, without it being done intentionally. So, even if this poison ends up getting into the foodstuffs via a 3rd party, I'd still say that this was an intentional act until proven wrong.
My big concern is that this poisoning was done at the factories and/or distributing houses right here in the USA. That opens an entire list of dangerous possibilities...
Posted by: Foehammer at March 24, 2007 1:15 PM
Foehammer--
I wasn't specific enough above-- the report I heard pointed to rat poison in the wheat gluten.
And you're right; it definitely raises questions about the safety of the food supply and raw materials' chain of custody from one place to another.
Posted by: MarisolJW at March 24, 2007 1:25 PM
foehammer
Don't forget the stern tubes...right full rudder.
at March 24, 2007 1:57 PM
Poisoning foodstuffs has always been a serious threat. The FBI better get on this with a large team and find the culprits.
The FBI's too busy poisoning itself to worry about us.
How is that multicultural outreach Moslem FBI recruiting program going, anyway? After all, if you're gonna fight a Jihad war, what better way to compete than to cast aside your standards and go out and hire a thousand Moslems into sensitive Special Agent positions.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 24, 2007 2:00 PM
Just another U.S. patrol left out to dry with no air cover or backup. Tell me again that any kind of plan or strategy is in place. Our politicians are flat murdering our guys. There isn't an excuse in the world that an air support strike could not have been there within 15 minutes unless the excuse is that it's better to let our guys get killed than defend them.
Posted by: Duke at March 24, 2007 2:03 PM
GIVE ME A BREAK
Duh. Oops. Sorry for shooting at you I "didn't realize" I was in Iraq. Umm... I thought I was in Iran. I have no idea which country I am in right now...Where am I? Why am I here? What's my name again?
I totally don't buy that ridiculous excuse. I wasn't born yesterday.
Posted by: Tookson at March 24, 2007 2:55 PM
Foehammer for President 2008...
Posted by: The Resistance at March 24, 2007 2:58 PM
This will be the last OT on this subject,
The substance in the food was identified as aminopterin, a cancer drug that once was used to induce abortions in the United States and is still used to kill rats in some other countries, state Agriculture Commissioner Patrick Hooker said.
Bob Rosenberg, senior vice president of government affairs for the National Pest Management Association, said it would be unusual for the wheat to be tainted.
"It would make no sense to spray a crop itself with rodenticide," Rosenberg said, adding that grain shippers typically put bait stations around the perimeter of their storage facilities.
"Any amount of this product is too much in food," Hooker said.
Aminopterin is highly toxic in high doses. It inhibits the growth of malignant cells and suppresses the immune system. In dogs and cats, the amount of aminopterin found — 40 parts per million — can cause kidney failure, according to Bruce Akey, director of Cornell's diagnostic center.
"It's there in substantial amounts," Akey said
Aminopterin is no longer marketed as a cancer drug, but is still used in research, said Andre Rosowsky, a chemist with the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 24, 2007 3:23 PM
I've been out of touch. I have an 18 year old Border Collie who is very ill. She was already having a rough time when I discovered that I had unwittingly fed her four packets of Iams from the plant in question and from the batches in question. She was already an invalid (from age) and the wet food was her only real treat.
Did someone on here not say that some Imam recently said about soft Jihad that if you couldn't get guns or bombs that Rat Poison would do?
Could someone find me the quote? I would love to send it to my congressman or someone. By the way my Congressman has met my dog and really liked her.
at March 24, 2007 3:24 PM
On the above, I apoologise for being off topic. But my time is short and I don't have time to look for an appropriate posting.
Aunt Bea
Posted by: auntbea at March 24, 2007 3:26 PM
auntbea, you didn't say it, but assumedly you've taken your collie in to see the vet, it's important to get attention as soon as possible. Best thoughts and wishes to her.
Posted by: special_guest at March 24, 2007 4:10 PM
Off topic from the Maldives:
Topless dancers. Flowing champagne. UK Topshop boss throws star-studded birthday bash at Maldives resort while upsetting local Muslim leaders.
This lavish party is over the top
Posted by: ummahnewslinks at March 24, 2007 4:24 PM
Aunt Bea, you have nothing to apologize for. The rat poison was definitely placed in the food with intention to incite fear. You are not off topic.I have three small dogs of my own and I am beginning to believe that Islam has something to do with pet food tainting. We need proof of this. Knowing the Food and Drug Administration they will try to cover it up. After all, Islam is against dogs. This is only circumstantial.
Posted by: The Resistance at March 24, 2007 4:25 PM
From the article:
It is possible that Iranians thought they were in Iranian territory, according to U.S. military officials. Such border confusions and disputes happen routinely.
The Iranians knew that the infidels were in Dar al-Islam. The border is very clear in their minds, there was no confusion.
Posted by: special_guest at March 24, 2007 4:25 PM
As the British government demanded the immediate release of 15 of its sailors whose boats were seized by Iranian naval vessels in the Persian Gulf on Friday
again we go didn-t the iranis get some British seals in their speed boats a couple of years or 2 agao annd what did the Brits do about it??
I cn-t remember??
OH yea NOTHING++
SO when You get bit by a pack of dogs and do nothing don,t be surprized when they bite you again££
Called take out the alfa male now who could that be????
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, SIGHT. WISDOM, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL IALAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH THEM AMEN
at March 24, 2007 4:26 PM
@The Resistance:
"Foehammer for President 2008"
LOL. I would never get elected because I'm:
1) Smart.
2) Honest.
3) Not susceptible to bribes.
4) Love the United States.
5) Aggressive with enemies.
6) Insightful.
7) Adaptable.
8) Seek simple solutions to tough problems.
9) Frugal.
10) a Straight, white Libertarian male.
We don't elect folks like me anymore, unless it's to the local PTA perhaps.
But it's always a hoot to think about. Thanks.
Posted by: Foehammer at March 24, 2007 4:36 PM
drip...drip.....drip....
A little info here, a little more there....
The enemy does this....the enemy did that....
It's only a matter of time.
Posted by: The Goobs at March 24, 2007 5:11 PM
A conversation with a small cog in the big Machine offered this solution.
Stop spending money repairing everything they blow up or break.
Doing so would free up their time to better shoot them all in the Face.
When asked about Innocents? A calm response was "they are all guilty. When we stop fixing what they blow up and we shoot more of them in the Face. they will get the message to cut the S*&@ out. I'm all for a change in the rules of engagement."
A deeper reflection approved leaving altogether and turning all the sand to glass.
Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 24, 2007 6:44 PM
I wish the US troops has mowed all the Iranians down. They were over the border. That is enough.
It should be a standing order that once you know they are Iranians - take them out. Other Iranians can collect the bodies - if they dare.
They are emulating Saddam in his game of brinkmanship.
at March 24, 2007 10:16 PM
I have had the same suspicions about the pet food.
Anyone have any suspicions about the bee die-off in the US? Bees are critical to polinating crops. Just a thought.
Posted by: lafn at March 25, 2007 1:48 AM
Foehammer
You should be the Loyalist Party candidate. Start running - retaining 'Foehammer', rather than your real name - as the name by which you run. Unless you happen to get secret service protection.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 25, 2007 2:09 AM
Anyone knows who has been there--Americans are not allowed to engage Iranians, even on Iraqi soil. Americans are not allowed to defend or provide fires support to Iraqis who find themselves engaged with Iranians on Iraqi soil. I can't go into the actual events, but the Iraqi military knows that it can't count the USA for help should it aggressively defend its borders with grossly inferior armor than the Iranians have.
However, we do know this (not that anything like this has ever happened, mind you), but just the hint that US firepower will be leveled on Iranians sends them packing. Less so now that we've been repeatedly tested and have failed the tests, but they are still terrified of us.
As for the hostages, the Coalition should make clear that taking the British sailors hostage constitutes an act of war in sovereign Iraqi waters, and give 48 hours to return the sailors. If not, the entire Iraqi coastline is littered with targets that the Coalition should begin removing, one by one.
WWMD--what would Maggie do?
Posted by: longtime lurker at March 25, 2007 6:14 AM
Cut the dogdrivel;
Did our men withdraw with or without the Iranian soldier they first captured ?
at March 25, 2007 3:35 PM
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