This is an islamophobe symposium. Don't bother reading it!!!

/liberal alarmist

Posted by: Crusader at April 7, 2007 6:14 AM

If Robert "Slow Train" Spencer says take a look, I'm taking a look. Am reading it right now!

Posted by: dennisw at April 7, 2007 6:36 AM

Another Saudi Sheikh, Ba'd bin Abdallah Al-Ajameh Al-Ghamidi, made the connection explicit: "The current behavior of the brothers of apes and pigs, their treachery, violation of agreements, and defiling of holy places... is connected with the deeds of their forefathers during the early period of Islam - which proves the great similarity between all the Jews living today and the Jews who lived at the dawn of Islam."

TRANSLATION:
The Jews of the time rejected Muhammad as a false prophet and a false Messiah. Muslim-Jewish relations have never been the same since. Muhammad originally had his followers face Jerusalem in prayer, same as the Jews. Now they pray toward Mecca and their idol, the Kaaba meteorite

Posted by: dennisw at April 7, 2007 6:46 AM

so the Jews are till the number one enemy of the muslims, and Christians are still number two? what does it take to get some respect around here! l think the muslims seriously are feeling the vice getting stronger with Jews and Christians and every other non muslim waking up to the fact that islam is not a religon of peace!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at April 7, 2007 7:58 AM

"Crusader," - what's wrong with being an Islamophobe? Obviously it's rational and reasonable to fear the hegemony of Islamic Totalitarianism.

People - You know how Don Imus is apologizing for his recent racist/sexist remarks concerning the Rutgers women's basketball team? Has he ever insulted Muslims? Anyone know? Since he insults everyone, I would find it mighty interesting if he had never insulted Muslims! Which would tell me he doesn't have the cojones.

Curious, Darcy

Posted by: darcy at April 7, 2007 9:41 AM

This piece is absolutely brilliant.

I've been scratching my head for over three years now trying to figure out why Muslim women in the west would insist upon staying inside a religion that treats them like total garbage. They have a choice and if they could choose to be anything they want then why would they choose Islam? But if the underlying motivation of a Muslim is to mitigate his shame, because he knows his beliefs and his contributions to society are of a lesser value, and if the only way he can do so (he thinks) is by seeking revenge on and coveting his neighbors good fortune then every insecure person on the planet might well be attracted to Islam.

This is why Naseem and Abdullah spew and run. They know, deep down, that they don't have what it takes to compete in our larger societies. They know, deep down, that Muhammad was a fraud, that he made up his religion as an excuse to not work and to validate stealing from others who did. They understand, only too embarassingly, that one would have to employ terror and intimidation on the grand scale that Islam requires if the perpetration of this fraud is to continue. Because deep in the human heart, every man knows, by way of the natural law, that it's wrong to steal, to lie, to kill, and in justifying those behaviors you would have to keep them going because once you stop, the retribution against the perpetrators would begin. Add to that the collective guilt that Muslims have for 1400 years of crimes against humanity, to really make them feel like complete and total losers.

Too bad that Muslims have relegated Christ to a mere prophet and not the amazing God that He is. That is another form of their inferiority expressing itself, a projection of superiority masked by and inferiority complex. What a contrast; these guys need to understand that the God Who HUMBLED Himself to come down to earth and live as a creature because He loved us so much He was willing to die a ghastly death to save us, offers that same redemption to every Muslim who exists. These people could shake off their shame and know that they don't have to carry the heavy burden of their collective sin if they would just reject it and embrace Truth. Their shame would fall off of them like the scales on Tobias' eyes.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at April 7, 2007 10:19 AM

The discussion of psychological projection, being done both by the Muslims and by their apologists and appeasers, explains a lot of the apparently insane behavior we are witnessing today across the globe, as Islam wakes up to its inadequacies and lashes out against reality. The discussion of narcissism, and its relation to the denial of objective truth, was also quite illiminating.

The article makes a slow start, laying important groundwork for what follows. If you have not read this one all the way through, I recommend taking the time. The best stuff comes at the end.

This is the kind of discussion, including the critical psycho analysis--that should be a large part of anti-jihad radio broadcasts to the mentally captive Islamic world. In the West, it should also be part of any curriculum on Islamic and Middle Eastern studies at every university in the land.

Posted by: Stendec at April 7, 2007 10:28 AM

Excellent and RATIONAL discussion of the absurdities of Islamic "thought". Something I read as implicit in all of the discourse is the idea that it might be a good idea to 'criminalize' Islam in the West, since it cannot be reformed.

Another thing that struck me is that the sophistication of the entire symposium puts it far beyond what appears to be the intellectual capacity of those screaming "Islamophobia" at every turn. This makes me wonder how many within Western society are even capable of assimilating this material and what that means in terms of our political processes in response to the jihadist threat. If there are truly people who are intellectually incapable of recognizing the threat Islam poses to Western society until it is too late, how can we identify those people and neutralize their ability to weaken our (meaning those capable of recognizing the threat) response to the threat?

Posted by: venividivici at April 7, 2007 10:48 AM

Stendec,

Absolutely agreed. As I read the first part of the article it reminded me that it's been a long time since I've been in school so it was a little slow going at first. But when I got about 2/3 of the way down to Dr. Gutmann's explanation of how Muslims project the horrible things they do ont us because they themselve really know that they are the ture apes and pigs, it really started rockin' and rollin' for me. At that point I couldn't read enough.

Go back and read it again, folks, if you stopped somewhere in the middle. I think it's the most important piece of information I've read on Muslim behavior since I started here at JW. It's that important.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at April 7, 2007 10:49 AM

Is good to see Robert in such good company. And if the clear-writing Hugh Fitzgerald were merged with Peter Raddatz, you'd have someone who writes hard-to-understand phrasing in 3 languages. (If Hugh reads this, he'll say something like, "No. Four languages.")

The article is worth reading.

Posted by: StillBreathing at April 7, 2007 10:57 AM

Could it also be that an enraged captive Jewish woman poisoned Mohammad, the pedophile "prophet", with a meal he forced her to cook for him, causing his slow, painful, wasting death?

Maybe?

Posted by: profitsbeard at April 7, 2007 11:04 AM

That was very interesting. Thank you.

Posted by: Josephine at April 7, 2007 11:06 AM

As long as we're going to be called aninmals anyway, we might as well turn it to our advantage. As for pigs, become wild boars, slashing, bitting wild boars who always took down at least a few hunters that came after it. And as for apes turn to the ultimate ape; King Kong one of the greatest monsters of all time. He survived surrounded by hostile dinosaurs, he broke the jaws of between one and three T-Rexs, depending on the version you prefer. Sure he took a hit by falling off the Empire State Building, after swatting some of the biplanes, but that wasn't the end of him. He came back to beat Godzilla (contrary to urban legend, Kong won in all versions). My point turn their arguments against them they won't know how to handle it.

Posted by: Balrog at April 7, 2007 11:41 AM

This is a must read..I have always wondered why the Muslims, even more educated ones, fell back on calling people animal names, putting themselves into the same category as a five year old. I guessed that maybe it was because their language skills were stunted. Alas, there is much more to it than that, as the reader will discover. There are so many things to ponder. One statement struck home, the fact that as the Islamisation of Europe continues, so will the gap of rational thinking between Europeans and Americans. As a American who grew up knowing that my ancestors and culture came from Europe, it is a difficult fact to deal with, but it is a fact that I will have to face more and more in the coming years.

Posted by: maryrose at April 7, 2007 11:50 AM

Good reading. I sympathized with the interviewer in his questioning of Raddatz, who seemed to invent a new technical-sounding phrase in every paragraph, and never really got around to answering any of the questions.

In Raddatz' favour, he had three handicaps:

First, he was dealing with an interviewer trying to get an islamic explanation for islamic folklore based on a theological tradition that suggests, but does not strictly delineate the details of this lore (The correct answer is surely that although the literal transformation is widely held there is no systematic Islamic explanation of this and most of the best islamic thinkers reject it for something more "spiritual", albeit not at all less hateful toward the Jews). Perhaps a good analogy would be the conception in Christianity of angels playing harps and sitting on clouds, and demons with horns and barbed tails, with tridents and red pajamas. The whole is a comical, though popular, construct on top of a base that is itself theologically sound in the Chrsitian tradiation. Even a christian who believes this stuff outright would have trouble answering detailed questions like who manufactures the harps and tridents, what they are made of, and if "heaven" isn't in the atmosphere, exactly what clouds are doing there, how it can be paved with gold bricks when clouds won't support bricks, etc.

Second, although he has a good command of English, he appears to be trying to squeeze every sentence into a German thought-structure. His various technical terms all sound like direct translation of germanic hypercompound words. His idiosyncratic style is an unfortunate outcome. Untwisting his phraseology reveals that he had some valuable things to say.

Third, he is trying to explain the unexplainable. He realises this, of course, and tries to explain it. His point is simply that logic doesn't do it when dealing with Islamic thought. Unfortunately he's been trying to get his head around Islamic thought for so long that he's beginning to have trouble separating his own mode of thought from theirs. I'll recommend a Cruise in some exotic non-islamic location, or a week under the tutelage of his colleague, Pope Benedict (aka Rat-Pack Ratzinger), who's managed to properly distinguish between Islamic thought and western.

He's quite right, of course, in identifying the interviewer's exasperating experience talking to muslims as typical of western-islamic "dialogue". It's a minefield, and logical people who step into it are likely to get something blown off. Although he's a bit hard to unravel himself I got to liking the good German scholar. But I hope he writes his books in German and employs someone skilled with English idiomatic style in his translations.

Posted by: Archimedes2 at April 7, 2007 11:54 AM

Great article.

Posted by: pez at April 7, 2007 12:14 PM

People seem to equate this as a Koran "thing", but yet the phrases of "apes and pigs" crops up in non Muslim teachings.
KKK religions like christian identity follow the same course in depicting Jews as "mud people". You will hear the same terminology of "jungle bunny" for blacks which equates the ape history again.
The Nazi religion and it was indeed a religion forms the same swine for Jews and classifications of sub humans for slavs etc...

The Talmudic sect of Jewish thought can also be found to have goy which is amusing when the apologists try to change the title from "animal" to other meanings, but this too changes humans from humans into animals who can be slaughtered.
There is a large trend in the the Judean state to use these terms equal to what Khomeini uttered in reading blogs that Arabs are "devil spawn" now.

It is a mistake to limit any of this to Islam, because the root is much older and is in the entire Middle East religious order or rites. It will suprise many that these Talmudic man created doctrines come from Babylonian captivity. The heart of Islam, the heart of Shabattai Zvi, the bedrock of the Nazi Teutonic order, the foundation of Masonic rites and the core of Mormon initiation. It has wed itself to the Catholic faith in the Christ mass and Easter which are sun god and fertility rite festivals laid over Hebrew God given holy days.

All of this is Babylonian mystery religion and whenever it gains a secular government to drive it millions of people end up dying from it from Inquisition to Khomeini madness.
It is why I have tried to explain these things here and elsewhere to people like Dinesh D'Souza as once this demonic based religious order gets a religion hyped up and moving it becomes a tool of murder and mayhem.
The first telling signs are the dehumanization of people into animals or less than animals.

For an eye opener, the "red state" phrase by Democrats is exactly along this same line of dehumanizing or causing people to be less than those in the "blue states" is a babylonian mystery religion teaching that "those who are of the order and intitiated are more than those who are not".

Until a realistic and complete vetting of how this cult has embedded itself by it's followers into a majority of movements in order to utilize followers for their agenda, none of this is going to stop until Armegeddon which is the Biblical definition of the world system defeated by God's system.

Babylon hides like a cancer in governments, orders and religions to use them for the practitioners ascention. It is about the mystery religion whose initiates simply move on and leave the blame in Catholic inquisitions and Islamic jihad once the world unites and destroys those events.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at April 7, 2007 12:57 PM

Good topic for a video blog, Mr. Spencer.

Posted by: wrathofasma at April 7, 2007 1:14 PM

This insightful dialogue should be read along with Khomeini's 1942 speech reproduced by Hugh Fizgerald in an article (posted in DhimmiWatch today) on the blindness and ignorance of Senator Florence Shapiro in her bid to have imam Yusuf Kavakci address the Texas State Senate.

Khomeini's speech is an affirmation of many of the insights in the Frontpage interview: irrationality, projection, grinding inferiority that rises into bloodlust to kill infidel demons, who represent everything that is evil and hateful. All sanctioned and supported by Islamic scripture and the arbitrary will of Allah that innoculates Muslim psyches against reason and washes away of any guilt or other human misgivings, leaving believers free to kill and feel good about it, happy and confident of promised heavenly rewards.

Posted by: JTF at April 7, 2007 2:24 PM

This is a real eye-opener to me. But what I am not able to come to grips with is, the notion that the very Ideas in Islam, has caused a sort of borderline personality disorder. If that is the case, then all that is needed is to wait until the adherents come to grips with their pre-modern behavior. The second generation immigrants will simply see that their violent actions are not acceptable, and move on to another phase. Leaving the ideas of violent jihad behind, sort of like how the Catholics have over come the inquisition. And I dont agree. I feel that they will simply convert their hate/envy for the Jews and the west into some other form of violence. And it must include subjugation of someone at some point. Please correct me if I am wrong on this... someone!

Posted by: QuadoLama at April 7, 2007 3:33 PM

Got a question for you to grapple with Robert, maybe on a Hot Air segment. Islam is, according to its proponents, a "religion for all people". In particular, Jews are invited to become muslims.

So how does Islamic theology account for the ancestry of Jews who become muslims (rare as these must be)? Do they suddenly stop being descendents of pigs and monkeys through some magical transformation that rearranges all their DNA and rewrites history? Or do they keep the ancestry?

There must, by now, be many descendents of poor jews converted to Islam centuries ago (by the sword, perhaps, maybe in "tolerant Andalusia"), spreading the DNA of pigs and monkeys throughout the Ummah? Maybe half the Islamic world has this DNA now. How can they live with the shame?

Maybe this is why they are more interested in killing each other in Iraq and Afghanistan than in killing the Americans.

[Tongue firmly planted in cheek.]

Posted by: Archimedes2 at April 7, 2007 4:23 PM

CRUSADE ON ISABELLA!!--- Great post!--especially at this Ressurection celebration time. Notice I didnt say Easter, or rather, Ishtar the sun goddess.

Not lame at all, Lame Cherry! The Bible's definition of Christians is likened to eagles and lions, etc. What you say about Babylon and Armegeddon is right on. The problem, as you state, are world governments driving world systems without a "World View".

P.S. All J.W.ers; Keep asking until you find a Bible believer who can define "World View" for you.

Posted by: guide inside at April 7, 2007 4:29 PM

There's some righteous anger in some of these speakers and they bring out the sharp knives and cut deep into Islam's outrages and pathologies. All the speakers are enlightening, even Raddatz if you stick with him despite a bit of unclarity in his expression.

Posted by: traeh at April 7, 2007 5:21 PM

Isabellathecrusader:
I imagine the main point of what I'm going to say has already occurred to you. I'm not sure Muhammad "made it up" as you say. It seems to me possible that Muhammad, as an unfortunately large historical phenomenon, might need to be explained in some kind of "demonological" context, e.g., that his "Gabriel," though misnamed, was an incorporeal being of the destructive variety.

For example, perhaps Muhammad's incorporeal informant was the one called Ahriman in Zoroastrianism. According to some interesting fables, Ahriman causes men to disbelieve in the inner individual world, and to think that only the external exists, whether external "spirit" or external matter; on the other hand, Muhammad's "Gabriel" perhaps could not have been Lucifer, who sometimes has been fabled to have an effect opposite to Ahriman on men. Thus Lucifer causes men to disbelieve in the external -- whether material or spiritual -- and to look exclusively toward an inward, subjective form of spirit. Both Ahriman and Lucifer may be considered to oppose evolution, but in opposite ways. Ahriman tends to emphasize revolution and absolute discontinuity, while Lucifer tends to favor stasis and absolute continuity. Though they viciously oppose each other, in some sense they are also each other's main allies and in wierd ways closely mirror each other. Something like Hitler and Stalin.

In this mythic -- yet perhaps utterly real -- context, Christ would be the one who holds the living center between those two demonic powers, which are necessary, but must be continually transformed so that their destructive aspect is checked, and the constructive aspect is made to further human evolution and development.

Posted by: traeh at April 7, 2007 6:07 PM

Personally, I don't like the term "antisemitism" (after all, Arabs are Semite-Caucasians). The term "Jew-hater" gets more to the point. This rationalization (aka Islam) for subduing, dehumanizing, exploitation, deception and even extermination of "the other" is true Islam. "Apes and Pigs" indeed.

Posted by: Frank at April 7, 2007 6:52 PM

They do it to provoke and stir up others who they can convince that we are. It is confusing people here in the states also use terriable words. It is called freedom of speech! I don't see it that way, for you can see what it does! If you say a lie enough times you start to believe it! So saying 9-11 inside job and done by our president should not be tolerated! Nor the hate speech against our soldiers! As Robert mentioned they have this narcissism! Maybe that is due to they have so many wifes how do they know if they aren't marrying a relative? Just like in the Bahamas! They don't care who the father is. No test. Wasn't it in Wisconsin they had to change the words to The Three Pigs? The Muslims refused to say it!? So they used puppies! I don't get it dogs are unclean to them too.
I believe it is because we are the ones they are at war with! They always have been! Mohammed came about the time of Abraham and Isaac. I understand the Crusuades so much more since I have read PIG to Islam (and the Crusades). Why do they hate us? Because of Israel! They want the Holy Land to be theirs. They want to be the choosen people. They will always fight with Israel!

Posted by: MZ at April 7, 2007 9:29 PM

Traeh,

What I think you are saying is that Muhammad had some sort of demon encounter, if not the Archangel Gabriel. That may be true but I think it more likely that he was demon inspired rather than having had some specific visual or spoken experience. It makes no sense whatsoever that the same Archangel Gabriel, one of the seven who stand before the throne of God, who came to give the greatest message for mankind, the message of hope, to the Blessed Virgin, would six hundred years or so later come to give the opposite message.

Gabriel was the angel who comforted Our Lord in the Garden of Gethsemane when he was troubled about His impending death and who helped strengthen Him to go through with God's plan for the deliverance of mankind via Christ's death and resurrection on the cross. Surely Gabriel knew about Jesus' admonition to his apostles and other disciples to go out and teach all the peoples of the world Christ's message of love, forgiveness and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. The disciples did that and without threatening, forcing anyone or using a sword. (Heck, Jesus told them not to even take an extra coat. Where were they going to put a sword?)

Fast forward to the early 600's and we are supposed to believe that Gabriel came back and gave Muhammad the seeds of the religion that was to be the purveyor of such misery, murder and mayhem throughout recorded history? I'm not buying it. Having said that, I do think that Satan definitely had something to do with founding Islam because if you look at it's fruits the dirty deeds done dirt cheap in Islam are right in line with the kind of blatant disregard for human life, the humiliation and degradation, destruction of innocence among children, and ruining of peoples lives that so enthralls (but never satisfys) the prince of this world.

As far as Muhammad making up his religion, I'll respectfully disagree with you and stick by that. He seems to have taken what he liked from Christianity and Judaism, left the rest and added things as the itch needed to be scratched.

For example, Fr. John Laux, in the first part of the last century, taught that "the court of Allah consists of angels, created out of fire, winged and mortal. Their 'trial' was the command to acknowledge by homage their inferiority to Adam. All obeyed except Iblis, the devil, who in consequence was cast out of paradise. The Jinn, malicious spirits, are helpers of Iblis in his efforts to lead men astray...The happiness promised to the Moslems in paradise is wholly sensual, consisting of fine gardens, rich furniture, delicious fruits, and wines that neither cause headache or intoxication; but above all, gazelle-eyed maids, pure as pearls in shells, and gifted with eternal youth, shall be their brides." Now the concept of Iblis disobeying and being kicked out of paradise sounds just a little too much like the teaching of the Satans fall in the Bible. Are we to believe that Muhammad was given that teaching specially by a benevolent spirit? Poppycock! That teaching was around for many centuries and surely he could have heard it with the expansion of Christianity across the planet. But the idea of getting eternally laid as the ultimate prize of paradise could only been made up by a man, and one who was a total horndog to boot.

I especially like the part that whenever Muhammad wanted to marry a new bride and he was over his Allah allowed quota of four, Allah would speak to him in a new revelation and tell him that it was okay for HIM to have more than four wives. How convenient. I read somewhere that Muhammad didn't think the tribal people would understand the concept of the Trinity so that teaching just wasn't included in his book. Plus the part about marrying Aisha when she was just a baby and consummating the marriage when she was nine is just too gross for words. Don't even tell me Gabriel suggested that.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at April 7, 2007 9:33 PM

Lame Cherry said:

The Talmudic sect of Jewish thought can also be found to have goy which is amusing when the apologists try to change the title from "animal" to other meanings, but this too changes humans from humans into animals who can be slaughtered.
There is a large trend in the the Judean state to use these terms equal to what Khomeini uttered in reading blogs that Arabs are "devil spawn" now.

This is revoltingly ignorant.

"The Talmudic sect of Jewish thought" consists of about 99.9% of Jews in the world today. In the Talmud and other contemporaneous Jewish texts, you will find the introductory phrases of the Lord's Prayer, a version of the Golden Rule, the assertion that love of neighbor is the sum of the Torah, the command to violate the Sabbath to save a life, the mote-beam parable, etc. It's amazing how many people are experts in Talmudic thought without actually having read it.

The word "goy" is usually translated as nation, and appears frequently in the Hebrew Bible and Talmud. Sometimes, it is used to refer to Israel itself. The majority of the time, it is used to refer to other nations, with roughly the same connotations as foreigner or alien. It absolutely never means animal. That is a lie. There are words for animals. One generic term for beast is "behema", the plural of which is "behemoth", a word you might recognize. Then again, I've been reading the Hebrew original for almost 40 years and may know a few things that newly-minted experts haven't learned yet.

I assume "the Judean state" is Israel. Mr. Cherry has discovered a "large trend" there. I guarantee you that no Israeli is talking about wiping any country off the map. However, you might understand that a nation that has been under genocidal, exterminationist siege since at least 1920 might become a little bit desperate to find a way to stop the jihadist terrorists. They've found that Muslims want them wiped off the map. Can you blame the Israelis for feeling resentful?

That whole post reminded me of the moral relativism going around academia these days. "Sure, those Muslim fundamentalists are acting unpleasantly, but hey, we've got our fundamentalists too" or "Bush = bin Laden", etc. I've read enough of Lame Cherry's posts to surmise that this was not his intention, but the philosophy is bad nevertheless. Anyone who wants to keep his head attached to his neck better figure out the difference, real fast, between a fundamentalist Muslim and a fundamentalist Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Zoroastrian, or Baha'i.

Posted by: Surak at April 7, 2007 10:43 PM

Jesus was known about before all things were created.

Posted by: MZ at April 8, 2007 1:18 AM

One night I had a dream people turned into animals. I could tell who they were by their cloths. The Reverand and I did not and I carried him down the street aking him, "what is the meaning of life?" I quickly awake and called him to make sure he was ok. He was 91 then and stricken with Parkison's but sharp as a whip!
Dreams are interesting. eh, anyone think so? I dreamnt Mohammed tried to sneak into Heaven and an angel was tossed aside and it looked like she was loosing life..? Then she cast a bolt of lighting and God slammed his fist down which I can still hear, and away Mohammed took off towards to earth on a black horse. I wonder what it means? Had dreams since I was three about things of today! Age 20 a counselor had to tell me it was my imagination. I told him we are going to be invaded! Of coarse he thought I was nuts! I dreamnt of BOB before we went to Iraq. He was so evil. Probably off the subject. Well what am I asking there are no interpretors here. We have a big problem with our own religion right here. No one has given a good interpretation of that.
As far as making up a religion it would be easy to! So many people lost! You can get them to believe in rocks as God! People are weak in spirit! I have not been to church in a long time. Not sure if I trust it. This lady I know is paying a couple hundred a month!?

Posted by: MZ at April 8, 2007 1:55 AM

MZ

Oh, if only we had someone like Daniel interpret dreams that we cannot comprehend. Nebuchadnezzar did not understand what was in his dream. Amazing enough that you can remember your dreams.

Posted by: wrathofasma at April 8, 2007 2:44 AM

MZ

Your dream reminded me about another I read from Ali Sina - the one about his Miraj.

One night when I was just minding my own business, I heard a noise outside. I opened the window and there I saw Angel Gabriel jumping into my room. I was startled. He told me not to be afraid and that he meant no harm. He spoke in perfect English. I was shocked and did not know what to say, so I asked a stupid question. “You speak English!” I stuttered. “Sure", He replied in American accent, "it’s the age of the Internet, you got to keep up. We had ESL classes in the Heaven and all the angles now speak English.” His friendly mannerism put me at ease. I asked to what I owe the honor of being visited by an Archangel? He smiled and told me to get ready that I have a rendezvous with my creator. “What? Me? Why? But I am not ready!” I stuttered excitedly. “Don’t worry”, he told me. Then he pointed his magic wand at me and whispered something that I did not understand and suddenly all my cloths were changed into a sparkling white suit and a red tie. It was so elegant that I had never seen the like of it in any Oscar nomination. Then he told me that sometimes he has to wash the heart of the visitors to Heaven. I was frightened to death. I recalled having read that he had taken Muhammad’s heart out of his chest and washed it before taking him to his Mi'raj. He noticed the panic on my face and told me, "don't worry, I have an X ray vision. I saw your heart and it is clean." I was relieved for not having to go through that excruciating experience. Then he added, “When I met Muhammad, boy his heart was so dirty that I had to send for an extra box of detergent to clean it".

Suddenly I saw a huge bird covering the moon descending towards us. “What is that?” I enquired. “Oh that is Morgullah” he replied. “That is the bird of the paradise, it works like limousine. It will take you to Heaven”. “What about the Buraq?" I asked. "The steed that took the Prophet to Heaven in his night of Mi'raj?" "Oh that old donkey", he replied, "Buraq is just an ordinary taxi compared to Morgullah. He carries cargos and sometimes guests of low profile", He added. Morgullah landed gracefully in the back yard. It was a huge bird. Its wingspan was roughly 10 meters. It looked like a big white eagle with the face of a human and a beautiful long colorful feathered tail. I mounted the bird. Not like a rooster mounting a hen but like a man mounting a bicycle! There was a saddle fastened to his shoulder; I sat on the saddle and the bird asked me to buckle up. I did as I was told and he became airborne. On the way up he told me that few of his passengers that were called to Heaven to be anointed as prophets fell down from the sky to their death and that is why now it is mandatory that all visitors to paradise wear their saddle belt.

Morgullah soared and I could see my house from above and then the lights of the city. We kept going higher and higher. I could feel the cool breeze on my face, which was very refreshing. Finally he stopped and the Gabriel who was leading the way came to blindfold me. I asked why he wants to blindfold me? Am I being kidnapped? He gave me a reassuring smile and said, “No, it is for your own protection.” He explained that if I know exactly the address of the heaven, the humans can extract it from me by torture and now that they have invented airplanes they will turn the Paradise into a touristic destination and will spoil that lovely place. The inhabitants of the Paradise do not want anyone to come and disturb their peace. I consented being blindfolded and we rode another 30 minutes or so.

When they opened my eyes, I saw such a beautiful place that words can not describe. A garden of flowers and lush trees. Rivers of wine, honey and milk flowing in its midst, voluptuous houris semi naked, with firm breasts strolling up and down the boulevards! Filthy bearded men were drinking wine and each one having two or more houris around them. Oh it was just the way Muhammad had described. So I knew that he was a true messenger of Allah and he was not lying when he said that he spoke of his ascension. In some places I had to turn my head the other way. Some of these guys were having orgies with their houris; threesomes, foursomes, up to 73 somes! One fitly bearded man with 72 gorgeous looking houris. It was disgusting, but I was excited. I had read Muhammad promising all these goodies to the believers but never believe him. A blond houri approached and gave me the most charming smile that melted my heart. She asked, “looking for company?” I looked at Gabriel for permission. She was just the kind of woman I like. She was skinny, tall, with a beautiful smile, a Hollywood kind of girl; much better than Pamela Anderson and Julia Roberts combined. I exclaimed Fa tabarak Allah ahsan al khaleqeen (praise be Allah the best of the creators). I knew this is the right thing to say. This was what Muhammad exclaimed when he saw his own daughter in-law, semi naked, and fell in love with her. I said to my self, "Oh man, this must be Paradise! Sure Muhammad knew what he was talking about." But the Gabriel said that we don’t have time and that God is expecting me. I asked whether we could stop for an hour or so after the meeting with God is over? After all it was paradise and all the sins are allowed there. He answered in negative and told me that I cannot be with a woman who is not mahram to me, but when I die I can have as many houris as I like. Suddenly death seemed so enticing. I realized why Muslim jihadis are so eager to become suicide bombers and do not fear death. Of course with that much sex in paradise who does not want to die?

We kept walking. It was like walking on the clouds. Amazingly I saw very few women. There were a lot of houris but not many women. (There is a difference between a normal human woman and a houri. Houris are white, so white that you can see their bone marrow. They are transparent, like some see through telephones. You can see inside them. Muhammad thought this is very attractive but I prefer non-transparent houris.) I asked where are the real women? I wondered whether the woman have a separate paradise like the public busses in Pakistan where there is a partition between the gents compartment and the ladies compartment. The Angel said that Paradise does not have a separate compartment for the women, "the majority of women are in the Hell". “In the Hell?” I screamed shockingly, "Why in the Hell?" “They are in the Hell because they disobeyed their husbands, became feminists and wanted equal rights with men”, He replied. “This is a big sin. Allah has created woman from the rib of man to serve him and be obedient to him, but women keep asking equal rights, so when they die Allah sends them to Hell.” I was sad. I thought it was so unfair. I recalled Muhammad's saying that in his Mi'raj, when he visited the Heaven and the Hell, he saw that the majority of the inhabitants of the Hell were women, but I thought Muhammad being an old guy said this because he wanted to scare his teenager wives into obedience. I always thought women should have equal rights but how wrong I was. Allah actually created the women to serve us man. How nice of him. I finally realized that Muhammad, Moses and Christ actually told the truth and that it was all part of God’s plan to make women subservient to of men.

Anyway, we kept walking until we reached a pearly gate. It opened automatically as we approached. “Cool hah?" Said Gabriel. He explained that this door can recognize the person approaching by reading the retina of his eyes and if that person is authorized it will open automatically otherwise it won't. I thought it was a miracle, but he said that the gate actually operated with a gadget that they got from the Earth. Then he explained that in Heaven they use a lot of earthly inventions. He chuckled and said since the Internet became popular even God has learned how to use it and is now hooked to the Internet. "The angels now do most of the godly duties," he confessed, and added "God is always busy chatting with people through the Internet. He does that with different aliases and screen names. People don’t know that they are chatting with God. He loves it because he always liked to talk to people while hiding behind a messenger, now he can do that hiding behind a computer."

The door opened to a huge garden full of lights and delights. I asked, “Where is this place?” The Angel replied; “this is where God lives.” I saw a huge palace made of gold and crystal. Decorated with all sorts of synthetic precious stones. We entered the foyer, through the first hall and the second hall and every angel bowed in front of me as I passed and I bowed back until we met a man in his mid thirties with long hairs and white garment reaching his ankles at the end of the hall in front of the stairs. He greeted me warmly as if he knew me and was expecting me. I said; “do we know each other?” He answered; “I am Jesus, the Son of God”! “Oh Jesus!” I exclaimed. I was very happy to meet Jesus in person. I wanted to prostrate and kiss his feet but he did not let me. He was very humble. But how come he says that he is the Son of God? I wondered. Didn't the Prophet say that God was eunuch and he did not have children? Then I met other men similarly dressed. He made me stop in front of one of them and said, here is your ancestor Zoroaster, say drood. Drood is old Iranian greeting. I greeted him Iranian style and was overwhelmed to see my nonble ancestor. There were all other prophets here, who had come to welcome me. I exchanged greetings with all of them but I did not see Muhammad among them. I asked for him. They all looked down apprehensively. “What? What has happed to him? Is he dead?” I asked worriedly. “Of course he is dead” Jesus chortled. “We are all dead, you silly. He is just not in Paradise”. “Where is he then?” I enquired anxiously. “He is in the Hell”, responded Jesus. “In the Hell?” I cried out, “What is he doing in the Hell? Is he in charge of torturing the infidels?” I knew that the Prophet loved this job and he would have volunteered to do it even if no one asked him to. “No", said Jesus, "he is in the Hell being tortured himself. They make him drink boiling water and toast him in the blazing fire. Didn't Dante tell you? "Yes", I said "but he called his book the Divine Comedy?” so I thought it must be a joke. "Oh well", sighed Jesus, "When God started this whole business of sending messengers, it was supposed to be a comedy. The idea was to keep people amused and teach them a thing or two. But it went out of hand, people started killing each other and Muhammad massacred thousands of those who did not believe in him. It ended up to become a big tragedy and no one is laughing anymore. After that disaster, God stopped sending messengers and hence Muhammad by virtue of his mischief became the last messenger.

“The Prophet is in the Hell being tortured?” I screamed horridly, unable to accept what I was being told. Jesus put his finger over his lips and said, “hash,... Dad is upstairs, he can hear you.” But it was too late already. His Dad did hear me. A stereophonic voice sounded in the palace: “Yes” spoke God “We have sent him to Hell because he lied and killed our children wrongfully blaming it on Us." The voice was coming from all directions and I thought there were a multitude of gods all talking at the same time in choir. I looked around, left and right, very confused, but saw no one. Zoroaster came forward, he put his arm over my shoulder and said, “hamshahri don’t be afraid”. (Hamshahri in Parsi means compatriot. That is the informal friendly way we Iranians address each other. Zoroaster and I are both Iraninas) He spoke to me in an old pure Parsi language and said: “This “WE” that God is so fond to use is the WE of majesty. There is just one God, but He likes to talk in plural because it sounds more majestic. Now son, you take off your shoes and climb these stairs, don’t make God wait too long. He wants to see you. Hurry up… go.” I was frightened, but they assured me that there is nothing to be afraid of and God is a good god and that Muhammad was a pathetic liar who presented him as a fearful God.

As soon as I took off my shoes, Jesus made me sit on a chair and a basin and jar of water was brought and he washed my feet. I wanted to do it myself but he insisted and said it is his job. After I dried my feet I climbed the stairs and entered a huge room full of light. However the light did not dazzle my eyes. It was a serene atmosphere. I heard some soft music. I looked at the left of the room and saw Vivaldi playing violin. I greeted him with a smile; he acknowledged me with a nod of the head and a winkle and continued to play. I advanced further towards the light. Then I looked at the source of the light and saw a being. I saw a throne and on the throne it was Him. Don't ask me in who's presence I was standing! I was standing face to face with the quest of all mankind, the desire of all the mystics and saints, the object of adoration of all the inhabitants of the Earth and all the denizen of the Heaven. I saw no one but the maker of this universe, sitting on his throne with majesty and glory. I fell at once on the ground and started kissing the marble floor and exclaimed; "Glory be to Thee the Lord of all the creation, and the desire of all the nations". I looked up and could see that God was pleased to be praised. He liked adulation. So I continued. "Praise, Praise, Subhanika, Subhanika, halleluiah, hari hari, .... ". He was delighted to hear these words. I wanted to continue but he said that is enough, and asked me to sit on a chair close to him. Then he said that I was lucky to be allowed to see his face. He would not let Muhammad see him, he told me. That is why when he was summoned for his Mi’raj he was interviewed from behind a curtain. He also told me that Muhammad mixed a lot of lies with his message, that most of the verses in Quran are Satanic Verses and that he was not the preferred messenger as he claimed to be. He said that they called Muhammad up and showed him the Hell to warn him that he is not above the law and if he screws up that is the place that he would be send to. But he would not listen and he abused his powers. “Do you know what is the punishment of a messenger who breaks Our covenant?” God shouted into my ears, spraying his holy saliva all over my face. I was so shaken that I almost peed in my white new pants. I remained silent. “Twice the punishment of the ordinary people!” He screamed.

I kept quiet until He calmed down. When I recovered my composure I asked meekly, “What did he do?” just to break the silence and pretend that I am okay. My voice barely came out. God's face turned red once again and said, "That SoB lied in my name. He killed innocent people to impose his own dominance. He raped their women, stole their properties and instead of teaching people Our Word by good example, instead of showing them how compassionate and merciful We Are, he forced them into submission by sword. We never told him to kill. If We wanted to kill the unbelievers We could have done it Ourselves. He abused Our name and did what he wanted all for his own personal gain. Now he is going to pass all his dead existence in Hell."

I kept silent until He calmed down again. I thought God is too angry with Muhammad and it is better if I do not bring his name up. After a while, he noticed how uncomfortable I was and in his divine wisdom he changed the conversation. He looked at Vivaldi who had stopped playing his violin when he saw God is shouting so angrily and told him to resume. Then he asked me whether I preferred tea or coffee. I said, my Lord knows best. He smiled and ordered cappuccino. I was then sure that he was the true God. How otherwise could he know that I prefer cappuccino to tea and coffee?

In that meeting God told me a series of things about my duties. He gave me all the instructions. I said I might forget all these things! “Don’t you worry", He replied, "We will send Our instructions to you by email every day. So each morning when you open your inbox, you can read Our messages first. In this way there will be no confusion" Then he added "We had a lot of difficulties with that illiterate Muhammad. We had to convey the verses to Gabriel, Gabriel would relay them to Muhammad and Muhammad would read them to his secretaries. A lot of Our original revelations got lost in this way going from mouth to mouth. Satan also was in touch with him and gave him a lot of Satanic verses. But Satan's literature is not as good as ours. Sometimes his secretaries would suggest some improvements to the satanic verses and he would accept, then he would go and kill them if they revealed this to others. As if this was not bad enough Muhammad often mistook Satan with Gabriel and would write Satan's words in Quran claiming that they were Ours. In one occasion when he praised Lat, Manat, and Al Uza Gabriel caught him, then he admitted that the words he wrote were satanic verses, put in his mouth by Satan, and he retracted. but most of the times he got away with it. Now with the electronic mailing there won't be any such problems. That is why Quran is full of violence and errors. It turned out to be a textbook for terrorists. The Quran is full of satanic verses. Do you think we would tell our children to kill our other children? We can kill whoever we want whenever we want. We have earthquakes, tornados, tsunamis, floods, viruses and all sorts of mass killing weaponries in our possession. Why would we need a messenger killing people? You people must not kill each other. That is our job.


Then God started talking about other things. He told me how hard it is for him to manage the whole universe single-handedly. He said that he had been thinking of finding a partner to share some of the tasks but had not been able to find a good reliable god in the whole universe that he could trust. He said that he was looking for someone to do most of the work but do not expect to receive the praise of the people. "I just do not like someone else be praised beside me", He said. "I know it does not sound nice, but what can I say, I guess I am a little jealous." He said it coyly. I asked whether he would consider taking a goddess to share some of his works and keep him company. "Ah women. Do you want me to let a women run the world? As soon as you give them some freedom they ask for equal status and before you know it they claim the house and you are in the street."

I asked about Mary. "What about Mary?" He asked me roughly. "There is nothing between Mary and I. It was just a one-night stand. It shouldn't have happened, but it happened and it is over. Mary got married to her fiancé and had other children. You people are so good at making rumors. The truth is that apart from that night that I lost my head, I never met Mary again."

The meeting lasted about one hour. I had few questions but I remembered what happened to Muhammad and dared not to ask. I wanted to ask why God has destined some creatures to become food to others? This is something that has bothered me a lot since I was a child. But I let it go. I think he read my mind yet said nothing. Perhaps it is because he did not have a good answer for that either. Who knows, may be when he created this world he was young and inexperienced and did not know how to create a perfect world where there is no cruelty. Finally the time was up and He bade me to leave.

I got up to leave but suddenly remembered he did not tell me how many times people have to pray to him each day. I recall when Muhammad visited him he had to go back and forth several times and get counseled by Moses and he had to bargained with God to reduce the number of prayers to 5 times per day. I thought that even 5 times is too much. The times have changed and people need to work in a faster pace. Wasting time in prayers certainly is contributing to lack of productivity which translates in poverty of all the believing, practicing Muslim nations. However before I open my mouth God read my mind and said "nothing". ..."Excuse me?" I asked. He said "Nothing... no prayers are needed. Just tell people to love each other, do not make war against one another, be kind towards each other, that is all I ask them. There is no need for them to worship me if that is causing so much estrangement, and hate amongst them." I bowed and knew that God was a real God. I was very happy to learn that He realized what is the most important thing. "Loving each other". What a beautiful thing! What a great god!

I went downstairs and met Gabriel who took me back the same way he had taken me up and I was home before the dawn. In this trip I did not get the chance to visit the Hell and see how Muhammad was doing. But if I am allowed a second Mi’raj I will certainly ask to be shown the Hell and the Prophet.


Prophet Ali Sina

Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 8, 2007 3:01 AM

This one is for you Lame Cherry: " "But Peter Raddatz also correctly points out that the discussion of narcissism and projection is relevant as well to comprehending the mind-set of those in the West, particularly within Western elites, who have chosen to respond to the Islamist threat with - in Robert Spencer's words - "wilfull blindness
It is common within threatened societies that segments of those societies will chose to avert their eyes from the threat, or - a variation on the same theme - to rationalize it, interpret it as a response to manageable provocations, and to seek to appease it. They will also typically blame elements of their own society - particularly those on the other side of the cultural or social or political divides - as being the source of the provocations that have generated the danger." ."... Kenneth Levin from the forum.

Lame Cherry must have missed the above or did not apply it to herself (assuming gender from the posted name). From her post I believe one could assume (I did) she is either atheist, agnostic or very secular with no real mainstream Christian or Judaic current religious conviction. Seems like just what Kenneth Levin was saying!

Posted by: kwg1 at April 8, 2007 3:49 AM

I've just finished reading the transcript of the symposium, it made a lot of sense to me.

What I can't understand is Crusader's definition of us as Islamophobes if we went ahead and read it. Why is wanting to find out about all aspects of Islam "Islamophobia", unless Crusader does not want us to delve into the "dark" side? After all, Judaism is seen as totally dark by Islam, and they like to feel free to publicise this at any and every turn.

I am fed up with this "Islamophobia" thing, which is used increasingly as a tool to silence any form of debate about Islam. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a "phobia" an irrational fear of something? After what happened in the USA on 9/11 and in the UK on 7/7,and what happened in India and Madrid, the word should not be seen as "irrational". So, I propose to coin another word "Islamowariness".

Incidentally, does anybody know if Muslims were invited to take part in the symposium, and what their reactions were when they were asked? It would be interesting to know.

Posted by: Ehup at April 8, 2007 10:13 AM

Wow. One of the best symposia ever! I was particularly intrigued and impressed by Peter Raddatz (I'll have to read his: "Allah and the Jews").

It was a stunning eye-opener for me to read Raddatz's explanation of how Allah is viewed (ie, as the "greatest schemer and truth dodger of all time"). Now that's amazing. I recall reading an exegesis on the early musings of a Roman pagan (was it Ovid?) on the nature of the deities -- and (similar to Islam?), the "gods" were arbitrary and capricious (thus, if you, by accident, stepped on the wrong stone, you risked incurring the sudden and inexplicable wrath of some pagan deity -- thus, the constant, perpetual need to placate and appease the deities through some sacrifice, and hope the "wrath" of "the gods" would be mitigated. This strikes me as similar to Allah worship...I confess that I consider Islam a form of paganism.)

Also, about the "logical levels" being "completely different from what we're used to in the Western world" -- indeed. I've found this to be particularly true in the Buraq episode -- the utter ludicrousness! (It has always been mind boggling how any sane person could subscribe to such fantasies.) It's primary-process thinking in operation.

Anyway, great discussion (I only wish we'd have more!)

Posted by: J.S. at April 8, 2007 12:05 PM

Ehup,

I really don't care if Muslims were or were not asked to participate.

The other day Glenn Beck (as a result of getting flak?) had on two (very brief) guests -- it was about the Brit hostage affair. One guest was the typical apologist -- claiming that it was a wondrous Blair victory (etc.); the other person opposed. Who hogged all the air time?? Who could not put in a contrary word? Of course, it was the first fellow -- the leftist yak-er. They get all the air time -- same if you try to hold a "discussion" with CAIR types -- I mean, why bother? Their propaganda spiels are predictable and, really, a useless waste of time. So why have on Muslims who'll be arguing for the efficacy in claiming that Jews are descendants of apes and pigs, because the Q/H says so? If you really want to hear that, then there are a million hate sites all around the Internet (or just read the MEMRI articles on the topic of portraying Jews as pigs, etc.)

Posted by: J.S. at April 8, 2007 12:14 PM

Lame,

The term "goy" means "people" in Hebrew -- it's not an "animal reference."

As another poster points out -- you're sounding like a relativist.

Posted by: J.S. at April 8, 2007 12:24 PM

Infidel Pride,

In that Ali Sina story he missed a great opportunity in one passage --

He explained that if I know exactly the address of the heaven, the humans can extract it from me by torture and now that they have invented airplanes they will turn the Paradise into a touristic destination and will spoil that lovely place. The inhabitants of the Paradise do not want anyone to come and disturb their peace.

I would tweak it thusly:

He explained that if I know exactly the address of the heaven, the humans can extract it from me by torture and now that they have invented airplanes Muslims will be hijacking planes left and right to get to and will spoil that lovely place. The inhabitants of the Paradise do not want anyone to come and disturb their peace.

Posted by: remote_control at April 8, 2007 1:56 PM