...Muslims gleefully revelling in the spilling of innocent blood....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 19, 2007 7:01 AM

"...Muslims gleefully revelling in the spilling of innocent blood....

Posted by: exsgtbrown "

Don't they always?
But then again none of us are considered to be innocent.

What does it tell you about them? They think this creep is a worthy here! Not another word needed.

Posted by: Gramfan at April 19, 2007 7:24 AM

It's more like St. Cho Seung-Hui. Benedict XVI will pray for his soul this coming mass.

Posted by: crusadertothecore at April 19, 2007 7:25 AM

Al-Jazeera reported 20 dead and 29 injured. Praise be to Allah.

Posted by: Crusader at April 19, 2007 7:25 AM

I guess this kid was a Catholic because he talked about Jesus Christ so much.

Did anyone ask what his religion was or does that not matter anymore?

Posted by: paulc37 at April 19, 2007 7:26 AM

he may not of been muslim, but his actions and thoughts were those of the islamic cowards.. you know how brave these muslim warriors are, gun down unarmed civilians. l hope that people will wake up and arm themselves. you cannot stop a madman from going on a killing spree, but you can be armed and ready for them.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at April 19, 2007 7:34 AM

I e-mailed my list of local media this post. I have yet to receive a response from any of them in the year I’ve been doing this.

What city do you think good Muslims will nuke first?

-----

What does the Muslim cleric who participated at the convocation have to say about his coreligionist claiming this evil man as one of their own? I have no way of finding out what American Muslims believe about Muslims embracing this evil man. You do have the means. Do you have the courage to ask hard questions of the Muslims that live amongst us?

Can you find one Muslim cleric anywhere in the world who will condemn this filth and does so publicly, unconditionally and in terms of Islamic theology?

Posted by: Ralph127 at April 19, 2007 7:59 AM

Clearly, Cho was NOT an islamic jihadist based on what evidence has come to light thus far; but it has now become an "islamic issue" because of the death-cult's impetuous desire to claim the act, rather than Cho himself, as their own.

Obviously, Cho should not have been at VT and has needed help for a very long time.

His deadly course of action was not driven by any ideology from what I can discern, but by the private deamons he struggled with in his own mind.

In short, Cho was insane; nothing more.

Posted by: witness at April 19, 2007 8:40 AM

"It's more like St. Cho Seung-Hui. Benedict XVI will pray for his soul this coming mass." -posted by 'Crusadertothecore'
You really don't read or watch the news before spouting bullshit, do you? One of the main targets of his rambling diatribe was Christianity, but I suppose that makes no difference to a moon worshiping pagan like yourself, who is completely incapable of logical thought (no offense to all the decent pagans out there).

Posted by: Abu Allah at April 19, 2007 8:50 AM

Next time they have a massive earthquake in Iran or Pakistan, we should drop a planefull of leaflets and tell them that our "Allah", the one from the Bible, brought this upon them. Maybe they will get the point. The obviously have no concept of self determination.

Posted by: No1 Infidel at April 19, 2007 8:53 AM

Oh yes, as to whether or not Cho himself was "evil" or not, I personally am not able to determine.

However, the "act" as a separate issue was indeed evil.

In the case of insanity, it might be prudent to delineate the "person" from the "evil act" since a truely insane person does not have the capacity of moral discernment.

This differs from the islamics since they have the capacity of moral discernment and willfully choose incorporate acts, like those committed by Cho, as part of their moral code.

This makes islamics more "evil" as persons than someone like Cho who engages in an "evil act" but who may not comprehend the tremendous moral implications involve.

Cho was dangerous and should have been removed from society permanently.

Perhaps if all the students had been allowed to be armed -- Cho could have been taken down first.

Posted by: witness at April 19, 2007 8:54 AM

Allah does not approve of killing disbelievers going about their animalistic lives because He created them and gave them the free will to roam like animals.

If He (Allah) pleased, He would have wiped out all the disbelievers in less than the blink of an eye but He instead showers them with worldly bounties to punish them with and relief their souls off their bodies while they still disbelieve. Angels await the kuffar on the other side to usher them into what can only be describes as hell

From an Islamic theological point, the korean boy was NOT right in killing the students unjustly. Allah tells the believers not to transgress beyond just limits because of hatred of a people...

8. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. Chapt.Table.Quran

Posted by: Abdullah at April 19, 2007 8:55 AM

"In short, Cho was insane; nothing more.

Posted by: witness "

...and is now being praised by those similarily affected...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 19, 2007 8:56 AM

However, that did not stop some jihadists on Islamic forums from celebrating his deed as if he were one of their own, and even dubbing him "Abu Mus’Ab Al-Virgini,"

Why would that surprise anyone?

Muslims the world over worship a man, Muhammed, and set his life as the perfect example to follow for all mankind (al-insan al-kamil).

Perfection as in:

the decapitation of the prisoners of the Banu Qurayza

the attack on the Khaybar Oasis

the murders of Asma bint Marwan and Abu Afak for mocking Muhammad?

the marriage to little Aisha @6 and consumation at 9?

For over 1400 years devout believers practiced muhammads example through the jihad of dawa, demographics, dhimmitude, and ultimately death to those of dar ul-harb -

The Jihad against Arabs (622 to 634)

The Jihad against Zoroastrian Persians of Iran, Baluchistan and Afghanistan (634 to 651)

The Jihad against the Byzantine Christians (634 to 1453)

The Jihad against Christian Coptic Egyptians (640 to 655)

The Jihad against Christian Coptic Nubians - modern Sudanese (650)

The Jihad against pagan Berbers - North Africans (650 to 700)

The Jihad against Spaniards (711 to 730)

The Reconquista against Jihad in Spain (730 to 1492)

The Jihad against Franks - modern French (720 to 732)

The Jihad against Sicilians in Italy (812 to 940)

The Jihad against Chinese (751)

The Jihad against Turks (651 to 751)

The Jihad against Armenians and Georgians (1071 to 1920)

The Crusade against Jihad (1096 – 1291 ongoing)

The Jihad against Mongols (1260 to 1300)

The Jihad against Hindus of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh (638 to 1857)

The Jihad against Indonesians and Malays (1450 to 1500)

The Jihad against Poland (1444 to 1699)

The Jihad against Romania (1350 to 1699)

The Jihad against Russia (1500 to 1853)

The Jihad against Bulgaria (1350 to 1843)

The Jihad against Serbs, Croats and Albanians (1334 to 1920)

The Jihad against Greeks (1450 to 1853)

The Jihad against Albania (1332 - 1853)

The Jihad against Croatia (1389 to 1843)

The Jihad against Hungarians (1500 to 1683)

The Jihad against Austrians (1683)

Jihad in the Modern Age (20th and 21st Centuries)

The Jihad against Israelis (1948 – 2004 ongoing)

The Jihad against Americans (9/11/2001)

The Jihad against the British (1947 onwards)

The Jihad against the Germans (1945 onwards)

The Jihad against the Filipinos in Mindanao(1970 onwards)

The Jihad against Indonesian Christians in Malaku and East Timor (1970 onwards)

The Jihad against Russians (1995 onwards)

The Jihad against Dutch and Belgians (2003 onwards)

The Jihad against Norwegians and Swedes (2003 onwards)

The Jihad against Thais (2003 onwards)

The Jihad against Nigerians (1965 onwards)

The Jihad against Canadians (2001 onwards)

The Jihad against Latin America (2003 onwards)

The Jihad against Australia (2002 onwards)

The Global Jihad today (2001 – ongoing)

The War on Terror against Jihad today (2001– ongoing)

All this time, providing countless examples of 'religiously inspired' murder, rape, slavery, extortion (jizyah), modern age pedophelia, piracy, thievery, deceit, fraud, desecration . . .all traits valued as the highest of morals in what some want to call 'one of the three great monotheisms' . . .and encompass all these 'virtues' as a religion . . .islam.

Generations have accepted, continue to worship - and have the gall to defend the monstrosity of it all!

Of course devout believers will appropriate the most vile acts against humanity and welcome them as one of their own. . .that this surprises anyone is surprising in and of itself.

Posted by: justamomof4 at April 19, 2007 9:06 AM

"Allah does not approve of killing disbelievers going about their animalistic lives because He created them and gave them the free will to roam like animals.Posted by: Abdullah "

Have you got any free will Abdullah? All you ever post here are bits of the koran. Do you have an opinion? I think not because you are not allowed to have an opinion on the koran except one!

You are not allowed any other opinion ergo you do not have free will.

And look at "all the disbelievers" allah hasn't wiped out. I think it is not what you say, but because he doesn't exist.

Posted by: Gramfan at April 19, 2007 9:12 AM

justamomof4

Wow! they have been busy all this time, haven't they?
No wonder they have killing/murdering/maiming/raping/terrorising down to a fine art!!

Posted by: Gramfan at April 19, 2007 9:16 AM

"Allah does not approve of killing disbelievers going about their animalistic lives because He created them and gave them the free will to roam like animals."
Posted by: Abdullah

What planet are you from?

Posted by: Oyobear at April 19, 2007 9:21 AM

"In short, Cho was insane; nothing more.

Posted by: witness "

...and is now being praised by those similarily affected...

Posted by: exsgtbrown

With the exception of islamics who are not "insane" (being truly insane absolves them of moral responsibilty) but are fully responsible for their evil acts which is part of their nefarious death-cult.

Posted by: witness at April 19, 2007 9:23 AM

1. Instantly fbi dick kolko - from DC no less! - issues standard boilerplate muslim terror lie: "nothing to indicate [muslim] terrorism."
2. Done on Yom HaShoah
3. Created suicide video/materials before suicide mass murder, just like ME muslim terrorists.
4. Signs his name "A. Ishmael" on Express Mail letter.
5. Writes "Ishmael" on his arm - ishmael is the beginning of the islamic stain on humanity as told Long Ago.
6. Uses islamic phraseology "brothers & sisters" in manifesto.
7. Professional assassin - chains on doors - terrorist tactic, very high kill ratio - practiced, skilled shooter.
8. Rails against Christians, America and the West.
9. Clean shaven in islamic suicide martyr fashion.
10. feds immediately assert control.
11 "palestinian" jihadi Jamal "just happens" to be walking by and captures LIVE FIRE audio and video. Later, on cnn he compares shooting to 'occupied territories'. He is from saudi...
12. muslims always blame everyone else for their problems - as did ishmael ax - ""You caused me to do this."
13. Self portraits are INDENTICAL to ME muslim suicide bombers.
14. And as expected, praised on muslim terror forums.

But no! Nothing to do with islam, the Satanic Cult of Death, of which this act is a hallmark worldwide.

Internal enemies before external enemies.
Internal enemies before external enemies.
Internal enemies before external enemies.

LOTS more Virginia Techs, Trolley Squares, Seattle JFS to come.

Posted by: Arm A. Geddon at April 19, 2007 9:27 AM

Robert, you are normally a beacon of light in a very dark world. However, I couldn't disagree with you more on Cho. Just what didn't qualfy him as a lone jihadist? Because he isn't arab? What about Azzam the American?

Behavior is simple; If someone acts like a jihadist, and does jihad, he/she IS A JIHADIST.

Your refusal to consider Cho for what he really is is hurting the cause of freedom and your otherwise estimable credibility.

Posted by: n.a. palm at April 19, 2007 9:39 AM

The lesson is inescapable. What he deeply hideously twisted mind will do outside Islam many, many a Muslim mind would do with a sense of Islamic normalcy'.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 19, 2007 9:39 AM

Maybe this isn't a very original idea, but here goes. Sure, there is a lot in this story to indicate a certain inspiration from islamic jihadis, like the suicide videos and gun-toting poses, making himself out to be a hero of some sick sort. My point would be that maybe this is a sign of the ultimate jihadi-moonbat convergence, the anti-American, anti-Western hate, shared by the followers of a failed ideology and the self-declared marginalized of our own societies. Maybe, maybe, he got some direct encouragement (or help) from local jihadis, maybe not. But the inspiration is there, melded with a bunch of sick subculture gleaned from ultraviolent movies, etc. Not easy to fight back against the disintegration of one's society, but we had better find a way, quickly.

Posted by: Minority of One at April 19, 2007 10:03 AM

an most excellent view from Neal Boortz today:

"Did political correctness play a role here? Is it at all possible that strong action was not taken against him because he was a member of an ethnic minority?

Did you know that both houses of the Virginia legislature unanimously passed legislation within the past year or so that barred Virginia colleges and universities from expelling a student on the basis of mental instability? Virginia colleges and universities were also banned from suspending or expelling a student because of an attempted suicide or the expression of suicidal thoughts? Cho committed suicide on Monday. He took 31 people with him. The university knew he was a threat. Nothing was done.

Who to blame? The university? The Virginia legislature? How about the student at another Virginia university who was sent home after he expressed suicidal thoughts? He filed a lawsuit .. the lawsuit that led to the Virginia legislature telling government schools that they must harbor people --- potentially dangerous people --- who speak and dream of violence.

Are these educational institutions or mental health wards? Why should we expect them to fulfill both functions?"

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 19, 2007 10:10 AM

Just what didn't qualfy him as a lone jihadist? Because he isn't arab? What about Azzam the American?

Can't speak for Spencer, but all we know is what is reported through the media. That is the only evidence anyone outside the event has access to.

Generally, islamic suicide notes make specific references to islam in their suicide note and quote from the quaran.

I did not see that this was the case with Cho's rambling video rant -- no "allahu akbar" junk either which accomanies islamic videos.

Also, none of the islamic sites are crowing about responsibility since Cho was not one of their agents.

Behavior is simple; If someone acts like a jihadist, and does jihad, he/she IS A JIHADIST.

shapiro and bush invited the immam to pray like jihadists do -- are they merely sympathizers or actual jihadists?

Your refusal to consider Cho for what he really is is hurting the cause of freedom and your otherwise estimable credibility.

Disagree on this point; it enhances Spencers credibility.

Put the burden of proof on the islamics -- let them claim responsibility if this in one of their sponsored terror acts and Cho really is one of their suicidal minions.

Posted by: witness at April 19, 2007 10:18 AM

If or if not he was a card carrying islamist is debatable and if he is a sleeper or sent to confuse us (red playbook) we may never know. However, he is parroting the anti American leftard rhetoric that I have seen on TV and read on the internet. The rhetoric that some in this country have been driving to a higher and higher pitch since 911. So he hated us and he hated Americans, where did he get the idea that we were so horrible, the mmm possibly. One can only spread lies about others for so long before innocents are hurt or killed. Well the leftist/islamist convergence may have claimed their first set of victims. This has gone on for several years and they do have free speech and I support the Bill of Rights, the trouble is no one in the mmm/guvment/community shouted them down exposed them for what they were and so people are dead. All the tolerators out there thanks for nothing. There are some on the internet that before the manifesto was released were parroting exactly what he said in it. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Posted by: tgusa at April 19, 2007 10:21 AM

I have come to believe Abdullard is not a person. From reading his various posts over the weeks, I am convinced they are not coming from the same writer. This last post almost flows like it was written by an educated person. Other posts are so pigeon english they are laughable. (They are all laughable in content!) Some have a measure of persuasion in them, others are pure bile from the hatred within the writer. Abdullard is a group! None-the-less, these thoughts and posts from the various members of this group still serve us in giving a look into the minds(?) of the average Islambot. And it ain't a pretty picture!

Posted by: fedupinamerica at April 19, 2007 10:28 AM

When looking at the evidence (or at least that which is available) one also has to consider the counter evidence. (Parenthetically, the psycho in a video clip also claimed to be Moses, i don't think many jihadis would claim to be a Jew prior to detonating...) anyway, the point is that the overwhelming evidence points to the person being a paranoid psychotic with delusional fantasies. Interestingly, this psychiatric problem does not describe the majority of Islamic suicide mass murderers (typically, they are perfectly sane). I think there is something of an overlap (being a sociopathic personality type and Islam -- but being a sociopath is not "insanity." You can be a sociopath and be completely "sane" (that is, no delusions, no psychosis). On the other hand, there are psychotics with degrees of sociopathy (associated with their psychosis). I believe Cho was a delusional, paranoid psychotic (with a sociopathic personality type). (A CNN expert on sociopathic personality types argued that Cho had no deep or real understanding of any religion -- Christianity, Islam, Judaism -- but, the sociopath would pick and choose biblical verses/images (from Koran, bible, doesn't matter) that suited his purpose for a given moment -- but the selection from a religious text is entirely shallow, superficial, ultimately almost meaningless...)

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 10:29 AM

The 1800 word ‘manifesto’ has not been released. The eight-page note has not been released. He reportedly discussed his religion in his writings. He targeted Christians and called himself I Ishmail on the return envelope. 'Ishmael' seems to be associated with the Bible and 'Ishmail' seems to be associated with the Qu’ran. Cho’s suitemate sure doesn’t look like an Indiana farmer. The police are angry that NBC released the pictures.

Release the writings. We can handle it.

Posted by: pez at April 19, 2007 10:43 AM

Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah....When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them....If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.... -- Sahih Muslim 4294

from anohter thread by Spencer...

. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. Chapt.Table.Quran

from Abdulla.

Allah, is one mixed up bastard.

Posted by: witness at April 19, 2007 10:45 AM

I know, this is "Jihad by Proxy." Apparently he had no Islamic sympathies, but we still think he was a jihadist because some Mohammedan slime balls are thanking him for his work.

I can guarantee that there will be another earthquake in the ME within the next five years. Mohamedans will be squashed under the walls of their hovels. I must remember to thank Jehova for it. Then y'all can call me an "Anti-Jihadist Slime Ball." I will thank you for the compliment.

There were several hearse fulls of Iraqis killed in the past few days by other Iraqis. It was mostly lost in the coverage of VPI. Is this the work of Jehova?

Posted by: Pelayo at April 19, 2007 10:47 AM

"I guess this kid was a Catholic because he talked about Jesus Christ so much.

Did anyone ask what his religion was or does that not matter anymore?"

from a post above.

Cho's family are Presbyterians. However Cho said that Jesus was torturing his brain and other visciously anti-Christian statements of the type that usually come out of people like Rosie O'Donnell.

Of course the idiot left is now pushing for more gun-control ignoring the fact that Virginia Tech already had total gun-control forbidding students and staff from being armed. If a few professors or students in Norris Hall had been armed, Cho probably would have been taken down quickly and the death toll much lower.

Posted by: Provoslavni at April 19, 2007 11:30 AM

This is priceless. Hypocracy at its best. Blog comments can have nothing to do with anything...right?

"...Mohammed was a pedohile..."
"...moon-god Allah..."
"Outlaw Islam..."
"Satan worshippers..."
"kill them all..." (read that one yesterday)
"...new crusades..."

All of these are simple, non-violent statements...right? Maybe they are defenses from 9/11...fine. However, when another website says the exact same thing (justifying it as defenses from an unprovocated occupation of Iraq, etc...), it's weird how Spencer (and y'all) get all worked up over it.

Just doing some thinking...
(I just know you are boiling over this one)
(Start anti-Muslim tirades now...the more times you insult Mohammed, the better...proven to make your hypocracy legitimate!)

Posted by: An American at April 19, 2007 11:31 AM

Because I am criticizing Mr. Spencer I don’t expect this post to stay on very long but here goes nothing.
Mr. Spencer, I think it’s pathetic to see you exploit this incident and encourage (while denying you are) the link with Islam for your readers. You did the same thing after the Zidane incident, “innocently” quoting some Islamist on the internet who claimed Zidane as his own. You did again during Katrina, scouring the net to find something from some Muslim guy somewhere. But Mr. Spencer, would you appreciate it if we were to post some of the hateful comments made by YOUR fans, YOUR readers? So someone anonymous on some Muslim board celebrated the carnage? So what? Was it necessary for you to reprint it? Exploiting the anger of your readers over the fact that the man wasn’t a Muslim (something they seemingly refuse to accept) and to maybe encourage them to think there is?

Posted by: turner at April 19, 2007 11:53 AM

Here's a question...

Jesus is considered a prophet by Muslims, just like Muhammad. Yet, when people defame the name of Jesus, create chocolate statues of Him, and other such other trash, Muslims do not lift even so much as a finger in protest, that I have seen.

Yet, if you even THINK of drawing a cartoon depiction of Muhammad, woe be to you... for the fire and hated of every muslim will be rained upon you! They will ransack the streets, burning buildings and killing people in outrage!

Can anyone tell me why there is this HUGE gap of logic in their reasoning? Ought Jesus be just as revered as Muhammad? Should not all prophets be equal in their eyes and defended equally?

I mean, as a Christian, I mighht even look more favorably upon Muslims for at least defending ALL their prophets equally, especially one who is OUR savior!

Hmm?

Posted by: Luposian at April 19, 2007 11:54 AM

Because I am criticizing Mr. Spencer I don’t expect this post to stay on very long but here goes nothing.
Mr. Spencer, I think it’s pathetic to see you exploit this incident and encourage (while denying you are) the link with Islam for your readers. You did the same thing after the Zidane incident, “innocently” quoting some Islamist on the internet who claimed Zidane as his own. You did again during Katrina, scouring the net to find something from some Muslim guy somewhere. But Mr. Spencer, would you appreciate it if we were to post some of the hateful comments made by YOUR fans, YOUR readers? So someone anonymous on some Muslim board celebrated the carnage? So what? Was it necessary for you to reprint it? Exploiting the anger of your readers over the fact that the man wasn’t a Muslim (something they seemingly refuse to accept) and to maybe encourage them to think there is, redirecting their anger at Muslims once again?

Posted by: turner at April 19, 2007 11:55 AM

OK Crux, if a Quran was found in any of Cho's posessions, show us the source for this revelation of yours.

Perhaps Cho was under a CIA mind control experimnt that either went wrong or worked perfectly.

People spend years in medical school trying to understand the human mind when it becomes disfunctional. Thousands of psychiatrists have come and gone and we still do not understand.

I have many years experience with a very close relative who has been treated by shrinks, psychiatrists, hospitals, and psychologists. When someone has a psychotic episode, nothing makes sense. Cho did not make sense.

And Turner, this is an article about Mohammedans praising Cho. Not about Cho, really. I guess Robert will keep your post for the educational value. I refuse to use "pedagogic."

Posted by: Pelayo at April 19, 2007 12:03 PM

All those airport shenanigans, dry runs and all.

All of this has nothing to do with the U.S. involved in the wars. It's all a matter of the islamics doing their dirty dealings over seas - and killing innocent people all over the world.

The islamics figure they're on a roll worldwide from Sweden to Thailand. That includes the new territory of Papua/New Guinea - belonging to Indonesia. Don't think the islamics are not converting the primitive tribals to the poison of the koran. Another Peoples added to the ummah.

Do you doubt islamics had the Americas in their sight all along? 911 or not?

All this going on right now in the U.S. has nothing to do with revenge for the wars.

The free world was ALWAYS in their agenda.

But the schedule is only accelerated because the few of us awakened are ringing the tocsin.

Posted by: allat at April 19, 2007 12:03 PM

Based on his message to NBC, I assume that he was hoping for suicide by cop. I'm sure he expected the police to kill him. Comparing himself to Jesus Christ shows that he, like most Muslims, doesn't understand martyrdom. Jesus didn't kill Himself. This guy did. They'll never understand the difference between sacrificing your life for your beliefs and killing yourself for your beliefs. That's because they don't value their own lives. What a letdown it must have been for Cho to have to pull the trigger himself because no one else would do it for him.

Posted by: PMK at April 19, 2007 12:06 PM

Muslims brutally massacre thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth.
Their ambitions are big and as narcissist they honestly believe they are entitled to do as they please and commit all sorts of crimes and evil deeds all justified by Allah," Lord of the Worlds".

They rejoice at the murder of innocent children. They murder their own children and people too.

Allah is clear as to who he is in the Quran,
"LORD OF THE WORLDS".
God never once in the bible calls himself that, Just check it out, and see in the Quran how many times Allah calls himself
LORD OF THE WORLDS".
The more we learn about this cult, Islam the more it becomes clear just who Allah is ..lord of the world, prince of this age
the devil and his demons.
Book of Ephesians
Chapter 6
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, AGAINST THE WORLD FORCES of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

AGAINST THE WORLD FORCES
Strong's Number: 2888 kosmokra/twr
Definition
lord of the world, prince of this age
the devil and his demons

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at April 19, 2007 12:15 PM

I must say I have my doubts about cho being islamic. Horrible murders have been done before, and the nuts haven't been islamics. For example: That famous Port Authur killing. And imo the worst, the killing of sharon tate.

You can all follow the lead to the killers just being insane.

Also, don't you think that if cho had been a convert and a jihadist, his actions would have stood out more and been noted. By ow the students and professors would have spoken about cho reading a koran - or praying 5x a day - all those little things that show the perp is islamic.

Posted by: allat at April 19, 2007 12:17 PM

Posted by: Luposian:

"Jesus is considered a prophet by Muslims, just like Muhammad. Yet, when people defame the name of Jesus, create chocolate statues of Him, and other such other trash, Muslims do not lift even so much as a finger in protest, that I have seen."

O Luposian!

Jesus was slain on the cross. But adding insult to injury, Muhammad, the liar and the father of lies, revised the story so that the blessed Atonement would be null and void. Satan doesn't wan't atonement! He wants to destroy life and the fractious, violent, death-loving cult of Islam (they kill each other FIRST!) is Satan's instrument. Ultimately, the Anti-Christ wants to usurb Christ. Hence, he is called the Anti-Christ.

"You shall know a tree by its fruit."

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at April 19, 2007 12:18 PM

turner,

What's wrong with highlighting what someone on an Islamic message board has to say about this? It says a lot about them, and that some sleeper cells in the country have taken away a lot of lessons here. I personally think that those commenters who are still fixated on the Ismail/Ishmael Ax aspect are way out of line, and so does Robert Spencer. But many (if not most) Muslims want to see the downfall of the West. We have two Muslim posters who say so every day. This may get a rise out of some idiots who are still fixated on the Ismail/Ishmael Ax and want to connect this to jihadis, but it's educational to the rest of us.

Posted by: wrathofasma at April 19, 2007 12:19 PM

Turner,

I seriously doubt that Robert would remove your post. He's an adult who is very used to criticism. In fact, he welcomes constructive criticism. From what I've observed here, posts are removed only if they are libelous, obscene, way off topic, or irritatingly repetitious. Although I strongly disagee with you on this, your post was none of these.

As the note at the end of each posted article reads: "(Note: Comments on articles are unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Jihad Watch or Robert Spencer. Comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Robert Spencer of the views expressed therein.)"

As for your points. Yes sometimes in a anonymous blog, people write extreme things to make a point. Robert has been very careful to state that Cho was not a jihadist. However, the fact that influential Muslim sites are lionizing him is relevant. Robert posted the links so the reader can decide for his or herself exactly how relevant.

Posted by: Provoslavni at April 19, 2007 12:26 PM

Apologists will be coming out of the woodwork, just write down their names for future reference. They that think by playing like they are with us we can be fooled by their writings and a few of us have been. Read what they say and you can figure it out for yourself. BTW apologists if I don’t respond to you chances are I am on to you, but that isn’t a guarantee that any post I don’t respond to I automatically consider an apologist. Always remember, you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.

Posted by: tgusa at April 19, 2007 12:32 PM

Provoslavni,

What is significant about some idiot on some Muslim board cheering Cho on? In my opinion, this was posted to fuel people's anger at JW and redirect it at Muslims. Its no different from a Muslim finding some post somewhere calling from a genocide against Muslims (and god knows that aint hard to find) and posting it on a Muslim board adding a "see? i told you the kuffar hate us"

Why not quote from a Muslim board where people are condemning this senseless act? you would like me to post some or will they be dismissed as Taqqiya?

Posted by: turner at April 19, 2007 12:39 PM

Would someone who was not a Nazi pen a broken cross to his arm to signal that he was affiliated with Nazism? Of course not.

Why then, did Cho chose to make reference to Ishmael on his body? No personal id, no serial numbers on his weapons, but these words on his person. Whether he was paranoid, delusional or sociopathic, he chose the final words that would signal his identity to the world.

Further, if some on this site have jumped to any conclusions, their reactions are borne of the continuiing threats and acts of violence perpetrated in the name of Allha.

For a Christian, it would be unthinkable to murder to promote Christianity. It would unconscienable to threaten non-Christians with annihilation for not kneeling to Yahweh and Jesus. But, Allhas people, even if they do not agree with the acts of their fellow practitioners, cannot find it in their hearts to mourn the loss of innocent lives to evil perpetrated in their religion's name.

Also, I find it disturbing and quite telling that their trolls who frequent this site often write veiled death threats against posters here. One should not be too sure that Big Brother is not watching those who threaten and discuss fatwas and conspiracy to murder individuals exercising their civil rights.

America had better awaken to the truth. Free speech and the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness will not be a part of the new world that tyrants from a certain religion want to impose upon them.

Posted by: BurkasforHitlery at April 19, 2007 12:39 PM

"But many (if not most) Muslims want to see the downfall of the West. We have two Muslim posters who say so every day. "

And those that say they don't are accused of taqqiya. Its ridiculous really, even the Muslim JW member (i forgot his name) was accused of taqqiya by most JWers after he had been "vetted" by Mr. Spencer.

And no, most Muslims do not want to see the downfall of the west.

Posted by: turner at April 19, 2007 12:43 PM

Look for t-shirts of the VT shooter to start showing up in the ME thanks to the islamofacists.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 19, 2007 12:44 PM

Can anyone answer a question for me, since I just got on please. What is the term "Abu Mus’Ab Al-Virgini" ? that is given to the VT shooter. Thanks.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 19, 2007 12:47 PM

I wish to correct a typo I made on an earlier post on this subject:

"Allha is not Yahweh. Yahweh is NOT synonymous with Allha."

The rest of my previous post should have made my typo obvious, correcting the ommission of the word "not" which I committed while editing.

Ninety-nine names for Allha, as reported on many, many religious sites on the internet, but YAHWEH is not one them. I think this is the problem with a religion that is supposed to promote peace, but does not understand YAHWEH as a component of love, redemption and peaceful coexistence.

Posted by: BurkasforHitlery at April 19, 2007 12:49 PM

If you look at the lunatic Cho and his ramblings they do smack you in the face a bit. They ring familiar somehow, as if you have heard them before. Inane ramblings, self-righteous accusations, murderous rage, sexual frustration, paranoid accusations. Sound familiar? Cho is a microcosm of the prevailing Islamic mental construct. He is not an Islamic terrorist, but they do identify with him for perfectly clear reasons. Mohamidians are his ideaological "brothers, sisters, and children".

Posted by: Ameriki at April 19, 2007 12:54 PM

"animalistic lives" - Abdullah
That's rich. From a mohammaden, calling us animalistic, from the same people who can't have their women uncovered because they will fly into a raping frenzy if they see a woman's face or hair. Who call women "uncovered meat", who think killing is their divine right and responsibility.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at April 19, 2007 1:05 PM

turner wrote:
"What is significant about some idiot on some Muslim board cheering Cho on?"

In light of the facts of the tragedy, it is disheartening to see ANYONE cheering about it.

turner wrote:
"Why not quote from a Muslim board where people are condemning this senseless act? you would like me to post some or will they be dismissed as Taqqiya?"

Please do so. In all sincerity, I will read it. More importantly, please look for comments on blogs cheering this episode on, not related to Islam. I would find that most interesting as well.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: awake at April 19, 2007 1:06 PM

bigcatgirl13106:

It's just a guess but "Abu Mus’Ab Al-Virgini" is remarkably similar to the name of the late head of al-qaeda in Irag: Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi.

Posted by: PMK at April 19, 2007 1:09 PM

I found it interesting to say the least that one of the first persons interviewed after learning Cho's identity was his neighbor, Abdul?. Perhaps Cho was just learning some of the "finer" points of Islam from his neighbor, and being completely nucking futs it appealled to him. Just a thought.

Posted by: the czar at April 19, 2007 1:11 PM

witness said

Generally, islamic suicide notes make specific references to islam in their suicide note and quote from the quaran. I did not see that this was the case with Cho's rambling video rant -- no "allahu akbar" junk either which accomanies islamic videos.

But we've seen 5 out of 29 pages. We've seen 1 or 2 out of 27 QuickTime movie files. We haven't seen the video yet, but one of those video files was named "am al qaeda". A police spokesperson who saw the original 8 page typed note summarized it as Cho talking about "his own" religion (without naming it), criticising his fellow students' immorality, and talking about Christianity (we later learned he was criticising Christianity). Look around on all the major news networks: you see the same couple of photos, you read the same carefully chosen quotes from his writings.

This is like when you watch a trial, and the prosecution puts on their case. At the end, you think, "wow, this guy must be guilty". But that's before the other side presents their case. The "authorities" have carefully selected which words and which images will be released to the public. Until we see the rest, we don't know why they chose the words and images they did. NBC has the full information now; they may agree to sit on it for awhile, but I believe it will come out eventually. I'll wait until all 29 pages have been released before I make up my mind.

I don't doubt that Cho had severe mental problems. So did Moussouai. So did Richard Reid. Being mentally ill does not preclude one from being a jihadist. A certain type of mentally ill person may in fact be drawn to the message of jihad. For once they may find themselves to be morally superior to the people who have taunted and teased them. Instead of being criticised and punished for having feelings of anger and and rage, they may be encouraged to hear those feelings are justified. He may be a Baptist, and never mentioned Islam or jihad in his "manifesto". He may mention Islam, but without any understanding of the teachings of the Qur'an (just attracted to the celebrity of OBL or others). He may be a Muslim, but truly coincidentally so, and his violence may have had nothing to do with Islam. We need to know more about him. I'll wait.

Provoslavni said

Cho's family are Presbyterians.

Do you have a link for that?

Posted by: special_guest at April 19, 2007 1:18 PM

Islam is an evil, sick and twisted ideology, and I'm not surprised that some jihadist-junkies identify with evil, sick and twisted individuals like Cho because they share the same toxic mindset and goal: hate and destruction to others and themselves.

Yeah -- Cho was one of them -- in that he shared their evil heart, mind and soul. Cho and these terrorists are all winding up in the same place anyway. More puke to them!

Posted by: champ at April 19, 2007 1:25 PM

"kill them all..." (read that one yesterday) - An American

Comments are unmoderated, but things like "kill them all" are deleted when we see them or they are brought to our attention.

So... Where is it? Every comment has a unique URL-- you'll notice the time and date at the bottom of each one is hyperlinked.

One shouldn't allege "hypocracy" without at least trying to provide evidence, which would still be moot since we delete genocidal and otherwise offensive comments.

Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor

Posted by: MarisolJW at April 19, 2007 1:27 PM

Ameriki said

Mohamidians are his ideaological "brothers, sisters, and children".

I too was very interested in that quote, and looked for any information about the context in which it was said. He feels a kinship with some group of people, a group of people that he feels is being mistreated. Is it South Koreans? English majors? People who wear baseball hats backwards? We don't know yet.

Change of topic: He shaved his head before committing this attack. I checked in the photos to see if he shaved his eyebrows (he didn't). Other bodily hair was not visible. (Shaheeds often remove all bodily hair before their "martyrdom mission", as part of a spiritual cleansing).

Posted by: special_guest at April 19, 2007 1:28 PM

I disagree that this was not jihad related in using the excuse "he was mentally disturbed". I do not know of any terrorist, rapist, murderer, pedophile etc... who is not disturbed in their mind.

Cho or Ismail Ax or Ishmael all reflect the taking off of the former identity for the powerful Muslim identity of another to act out.
The news is filled with the daily propaganda of Iraq is a disaster, America get out, George Bush is a Crusader Christian etc....
Each of those rants or posts even found here all filter into a mind like Cho who as an immigrant like the shooter in Utah seeks to avenge themselves on the host culture.

Cho took on the most lethal identity he could to inflict murder upon America which he failed in and that was Muslim Jihad.
It does not matter if Cho was praying on a mat daily to allah as most suicide bombers in the Israeli state are not that religious just as Atta was stuffing dollars into strippers thongs chugging sundowners.

Cho was a jihadist in every literal sense of the word and by action. He sent his bin Laden manifesto and suicide tape just like Philistines do.
He seethed, he planned and he vented as the new power force Ismail Ax.

Mr. Spencer, your work is most likely going to expand as in once the world sees that Americans have forced President Bush to pull out of Iraq, the disaffected like Cho will take on the victors robe and banner to kick the dead lion of America.

The Saudis will join the Russians and disaffected like Cho will take up the blade to vent upon Americans.
His weapons were a Glock and a Walther. Cho was sending a message of Jihad in them as they were not American made like him.
He saw Jihad, learned Jihad and made Jihad as a Jihad named warrior, Ismail Ax.

Posted by: Lame Cherry at April 19, 2007 1:32 PM

Lame Cherry

Each of those rants or posts even found here all filter into a mind like Cho

When all is said and done, I predict that posters at JW/DW who criticised GWB's handling of the war in Iraq will not be found to be responsible for Cho's actions. That's another Dinesh D'Souza argument, ad absurdum.

Posted by: special_guest at April 19, 2007 1:39 PM

Unfortunately its somewhat difficult to distinguish between the actions of a deranged, utterly insane individual, and the actions of your average jihadi.

The full details about this nut will leak out eventually. Then, one way or the other, we'll know.

Posted by: Uriel Septim at April 19, 2007 1:42 PM

"Next time they have a massive earthquake in Iran or Pakistan, we should drop a planefull of leaflets and tell them that our "Allah", the one from the Bible, brought this upon them. Maybe they will get the point”

Ah, but don’t their own fanatics tell them it’s Allah’s doing because they’re not good enough Muslims? That’s the trouble with bringing religion into it. Only God knows, and he ain’t saying.

Posted by: JFGR at April 19, 2007 1:48 PM

We're waiting, turner!

Posted by: fedupinamerica at April 19, 2007 1:53 PM

Thanks PMK. :-)

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 19, 2007 1:56 PM

From this story:

Cho's parents ran a used-book shop in Seoul until they left for the United States.

"They bought the tiny shop with the money my son-in-law made in Saudi Arabia before he got married," Kim said.

Kim is Cho's grandfather. He is describing Cho's father living in Saudi Arabia. Drip, drip.

Posted by: special_guest at April 19, 2007 1:59 PM

But what doess the "Al-Virgini" part translate to?

Posted by: fedupinamerica at April 19, 2007 2:00 PM

Forget that, looked at it again and its obvious. Sorry!

Posted by: fedupinamerica at April 19, 2007 2:01 PM

"Abu" means "father" -- thus, Muab's father. Then the location (geographical, from or where) -- thus, "the Virginian." (ex. al-zarqawi means the man from Zarqa).

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 2:09 PM

fedupinamerica By golly, I think you have nailed it down.
I kept getting feelings to that effect about Abdullard and could quite put my finger on it.
It's like with Naseem, where there seems to be confusion about gender.
Also, I think there are some serious racial problems with Abdullah. About the Somali-English mix.

Posted by: auntbea at April 19, 2007 2:10 PM

special_guest:

If you're hoping for answers you might be waiting a long time. I can understand why the media don't want to keep showing the video. I don't need to see the video. I don't even need to see the pictures every day, but why can't we have the text of what was written? It's electronically scanned. Why can't we understand what drove this man to do what he did?
We only have the few snippets here and there and the incomplete picture they paint leads only to distrust of the media. This is what leads to whacky conspiracy theories. What do they know that they will not tell us?

Posted by: PMK at April 19, 2007 2:17 PM

Thanks, J.S. At first I was taking the Al-Virgini part as "from the virgin".

Posted by: fedupinamerica at April 19, 2007 2:20 PM

"Your refusal to consider Cho for what he really is is hurting the cause of freedom and your otherwise estimable credibility."

There is NOTHING that more discredits anti-Jihadism than those who say that ANYTHING bad done by ANYONE must be somehow to do with Islam.
Its shows a STUPID mind in action. Please, please, please don't indulge yourself this way and discredit all the rest of us.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 19, 2007 2:23 PM

"Cho's family are Presbyterians.

Do you have a link for that?"

Posted by: special_guest

No, I saw it night before last on either Fox or CNN. They showed a memorial service for the victims held by the Korean community in Centerville. The presenter mentioned friend whom he said attended the same Presbyterian Church as the Chos. Of course, if it was CNN you can take it with a grain of salt.

By recalling that, I cast no aspersion on Presbyterians who are wonderful Christian people, nor on Cho's family who cannot be blamed for the actions of their psychotic son and who must also be suffering in ways we'll never imagine. At Virginia Tech, Cho could only kill the bodies of his victims. To his parents, it must be as if he murdered their souls.

Posted by: Provoslavni at April 19, 2007 2:39 PM

The only reason I can think of why they're not releasing the documents is that there are references to Islam & they fear a backlash if those references become public. If it was just the ramblings of a nutjob, there would be no reason to keep it under wraps.

I agree, PMK, let it all out and let everyone decide for themselves. We're big boys we can handle it.

Posted by: J. at April 19, 2007 2:41 PM

There is a difference between a "psychosis" and a "personality disorder". If you are "psychotic" (delusional, etc.) and you commit a crime, typically you won't be going to a jail -- you'll end up in a psychiatric ward for the criminally insane. People with psychosis (since the time of John Locke) have what's termed "diminished responsibility" -- they lack a "guilty mind" (see
McNaghten Rules) (thus, they either do not know what they are doing -- they are delusional; or if they do know what they are doing, they do not understand that it is wrong.) If you have a personality disorder (you're labeled a "sociopath" or a "psychopath"), you are not immune from prosecution (you're assumed to be "sane.")

Now let's suppose for some reason Cho had survived. I think it's pretty clear his lawyers would be arguing that he be put (for the rest of his life) into a mental institution. You'd have an insanity plea. (There has been a number of indicators that he was delusional -- the imaginary "girl friend" named Jelly, etc.)

Next, let's suppose the police apprehend a pair of murderers who went around in a car and shot unarmed and unsuspecting civilians. One of the pair claims to have converted to islam and intended to do damage to the Great Satan by means of Jihad. Insane? No. Personality disorder? Yes -- a criminal psychopath who expresses utter disregard for the welfare of others -- and can be prosecuted, locked up and/or executed. (There have been studies done -- looking at terrorists held in prisons -- and they have personality disorders -- anti-social, preoccupied with notoriety, sovereignty, etc., but not "insane.")

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 3:27 PM

I am not going to cut into the guy that commited this atrocity unless he is found to have been a muslim then i will rant on as one should.This guy obviously had problems.

Perhaps if our leaders worried more of our mental and physical well being and our means to afford proper care these things would not be so likely to happen.

Instead they choose to continue to import and hand money and services away to those not desrving of it.

This is the crime to be looked at.

Anyhow i hope soon for the victims sake that this as usual dragged on and endless parading of this event comes to a close.

Why?

Heres the deal: This morning i awoke to watch the news and of course the endless parading of the pictures and the video of this mentaly ill person.

After much speculations and the continuous questions of why would this man do this thing they go to an interview of the in house pshychatrist.They ask him what his thoughts were of the situation. His reply....

STOP airing this video,STOP showing these photos NOW!

Why?

Because there was nothing special about the event to uncover.The man was just a sick person.In reality he was quite and shy and non responsive to other people,a loner.He felt his failures were the fault of others.He had to create the person in the video and photos,the person he was not.In reality this guy was weak.

This shrink has become one of my favorite people>

Why?

Because he compared what this ill person did to what the kids in places like palistine do.

Thats why he said it was no good for any reason to continue to show the video and the photos.

It gave justification to others in a similar mind set to act out the exact if not WORSE event.Much like the suicide bombers who have thier pictures and posters splattered all over the islamic world and held up as heroes for doing so.This guy also referenced the kids that murdered at columbine.

This can only lead to an endless line of sick people or worse yet well people who wish for the infamy and noteriety that comes from such tragic actions.This leads to people who fail themselves to be able to feel vindicated in destroying others who succeed or are succeeding.Much like the jelousy found in palistine over israels accomplishments.

I would like to add that after this interview they went straight to the weather guy who bursts out with the comment "now this is great television" with a huge smile on his face,also i will add that he said he will remember this interview.

I am sure that at times like these it works out very well for the Media to drag this stuff along.Thier ratings must have jumped enormously,they may even gain larger advertisers with deeper pockets from the whole ordeal.One could imagine thier web site just got thousands of more hits.

My point here is i am trying (with an inner struggle... this thing called jihad)to understand why we can carry on endlessly over a weak minded INDIVIDUAL who commits one of the most awful attacks since 9/11.Why we can keep throwing it into the face of the victims,including the ill minded persons family and yet islam goes along unscathed by these wonderful news reporters?

Islam is chalk full of these people with this mind set only they are created for a cause.THEY as in many as in thousands and thousands perhaps millions,maybe even a billion,with one agenda.

Yet no droning on about it from the MSM.

Iran yet again issues warnings of the same "heroic" tactics that it holds so high, but diplomacy is working.Lets as leaders and MSM leave that to what it is.Lets not say anything further than the crap that we shove down our own peoples throats,for our agendas.For our pockets and for our self servience.

To the MSM and to the politicans when i say we i mean YOU.

As far as i am concerned this type of droning on of an episode that just might have been prevented if our leaders gave a dimes worth of thought about thier NATION first.If not even first then at some point.

When things start to get out of hand it's thier JOB to find the solutions not sweep them under that old lumpy carpet they so proudly walk to yak and yak on and on over thier personal service and gain.

This guy that acted out the way he did fell through a crack somewhere.Probably squeezed through by some idiotic law that was supposed to protect him from thieves and criminals,when in fact the law worked toward the thieves and criminals.

Once again our leaders and our MSM have us beating ourselves up for such an atrocity when we all know who is to blame and it's those who gain from it.

The fact that the islamists are skipping and singing and that they gave this guy an arabic name speaks volumes,we won't be hearing any droning on and on by the MSM or our LEADERS over these things though.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at April 19, 2007 3:30 PM

I'm sorry, but I am not forgiving of parents that knowingly allowed their insane child to fester on college campuses away from home and knew full well that he was dangerous. They should be in jail. Too many of you are far too forgiving of people that shirk not only their duties as parents but also their obligation to safeguard their neighbors. It'd say fellow citizens, but this wasn't the case, which points out the key problems beyond irresponsible parenting and a broken legal system -- this madman never should have had the right to own guns on American soil on 2 grounds: 1) he was deemed a danger to himself and others once before and volunteering himself up for examination should not be an excuse to allow some nutcase to own firearms! 2) He was not an American citizen. What kind of insane people are WE to harbor people in our midst like this and allow our rights as citizens to be used against us? American citizenship should have a far higher price than it does.

Look at the faces of the young people that had their existences snuffed out and tell me again how forgiving we should be of all the people at fault. We are creating a nation of victimhood! Enough!

Posted by: Foehammer at April 19, 2007 3:34 PM

Abdulla who cares what allah says his words are meaningless.

We or at least I know all i need to know about islam and that is that it is nothing but a bunch of murderous,thieving and sex crazed lunatics that love to molest little children,in mind body and spirit.

Lets be realistic.If this guy was in the muslim world he would have been shot from the cannon and aimed at the most populated and nearest infedel target with orders to kill as many as possible.

You fool no one but yourself.

The koran is a joke.It's stolen material that wasn't even re written worth a crap.

Why don't you use one of the definitions of jihad and look within and see how you yourself and all thos like you humiliate yourselves.

There is no honor,no humility and no civility in islam.

There will be no islamic rule and no sharia so get used to that.

CAIR and the ones like them,thier days are numbered they themselves will see to that.

"We are not at the begining of the end,we are at the end of the begining." Winston churchill

This means it has only just begun.The beging has ended and there is still more to come....beware.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at April 19, 2007 3:53 PM

If the system worked (as in the School Administrators and the Psychiatrists), Cho would have been committed to an insane asylum -- he had no business being in a classroom.

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 3:55 PM

This means it has only just begun.The beging has ended and there is still more to come....beware.

Supposed to read as:

( correction )This means it has only just begun.The begining has ended and there is still more to come....beware.

That "beging" is just too wrong to be left un attended.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at April 19, 2007 3:57 PM

Though a link is probably unfounded, it does make one think.

Posted by: jcom972 at April 19, 2007 4:08 PM

Foehammer --

Could not agree with you more, because I had to call the police on my own brother due to death threats he was making and because of his ability to carry them out (he owned 30+ guns). But hey, all a guy needs is one gun, so the number doesn't matter.

Cho's parents/family were probably frightened of their son, which is NO excuse for remaining silent, and they should be held responsible for not reporting him to the police. Shame on them for shirking this basic responsility to society.

Posted by: champ at April 19, 2007 4:14 PM

Do these things make him a jihadist? No. -- Robert Spencer.

Jerry Bowyer has written a good analysis of the possibility of an Islam influence that massages Robert Spencer's rigidly apodictic "No."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27929

P.S.: And don't forget that Cho's father lived and worked in Saudi Arabia for a time:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070419/tts-uk-crime-usa-shooting-korea-ca02f96_1.html

(Thanks to poster "raz")

Posted by: remote_control at April 19, 2007 4:14 PM

J.S.,

I'm surprised at your lack of knowledge about Islam, seeing as you have been on Jihad Watch for quite some time. You wrote:

"Parenthetically, the psycho in a video clip also claimed to be Moses, i don't think many jihadis would claim to be a Jew prior to detonating..."

News Flash: Muslims consider Moses to have been a Muslim!

Posted by: remote_control at April 19, 2007 4:23 PM

I find it odd that we are so obsessed with who this guy was and why he did what he did. He was a wacko with no grip on reality, and it's as simple as that. He didn't have a reason to do what he did. He did it because his brain wasn't able to work out what's real and what's not and he thought shooting people looked cool. That's it. You can tell from his ramblings that he didn't even have a coherent thought. There's simply no reason, which makes it even more tragic. Not for him, but for the victims.

We can try to invent reasons for it, but when you are able to think rationally, there are no reasons for it. And the thing is... there doesn't have to be. It's our rational thought that makes us think, "There MUST be a reason for it!" But there's not. Stop trying to wrap your brains around it, because you can't. If you could, you would need to be locked up.

Posted by: Stealthkix at April 19, 2007 4:37 PM

SpecialGuest

Mohammedans are his ideological "brothers, sisters, and children" Is to be taken loosely in this context. To make an analogy I’ll use a Darwinian model. Species of differing genealogical backgrounds can evolve to similar outward appearances if they have similar environmental and adaptive pressures put upon them. It may be that Cho is a differing species than the Islamic terrorist, but they have evolved ideologically to arrive at a similar mindset. “. They ring familiar somehow (Cho and his ranting), as if you have heard them before. Inane ramblings, self-righteous accusations, murderous rage, sexual frustration, paranoid accusations. Sound familiar? Cho is a microcosm of the prevailing Islamic mental construct.” I will say no matter the outcome of this investigation his psychosis has some eerie similarities to be drawn. Either by direct influence or not they are very similar.

Posted by: Ameriki at April 19, 2007 4:39 PM

Wow it seemed many of you were just drooling from the mouth praying it was a Muslim.

"I found that fascinating. They didn't have any trouble discussing the possibility that the killer might have been a Muslim, because they know, as does everyone, that there are jihadists who would like to carry out this kind of attack, and may do so someday"

What suprises me is that people like you don't look at these home grown mass murders. It would be an interesting study to see how many mass murders have been committed by home-grown American in the past 15-20 years. But yes you can get caught up with all with this "jihadist" threat and keep ignoring the real threat in your own backyard.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-fox17apr17,0,6739883.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/waleed_shaalan/index.html

It seems Muslims can heroes too.

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 4:53 PM

Wow it seemed many of you were just drooling from the mouth praying it was a Muslim.

"I found that fascinating. They didn't have any trouble discussing the possibility that the killer might have been a Muslim, because they know, as does everyone, that there are jihadists who would like to carry out this kind of attack, and may do so someday"

What suprises me is that people like you don't look at these home grown mass murders. It would be an interesting study to see how many mass murders have been committed by home-grown American in the past 15-20 years. But yes you can get caught up with all with this "jihadist" threat and keep ignoring the real threat in your own backyard.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-fox17apr17,0,6739883.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/waleed_shaalan/index.html

It seems Muslims can be heroes too.

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 4:53 PM

Stealthkix,

I find it odd that you are so quick to dismiss speculation, seeing as you (and the rest of us) have only about 10% of the evidence available, the rest of it being withheld from us by authorities. The 10% of evidence we are privy to contains some strange hints of Islamic influence. There's nothing "odd" about wondering about the rest of the evidence -- particularly since the very withholding itself smells suspicious.

Posted by: remote_control at April 19, 2007 4:56 PM

Yes, Remote. It's not just Moses who was Muslim -- everyone is Muslim (you are too -- don't cha know,eh? lol). Yeah, I know that. Many, many years ago I read a text on comparative religions -- and yes, everyone's a Muslim, and Moses is a Muslim prophet, blah, blah, blah. what I found amusing (sort of) was that in the video clip, the crazy (Cho) is claiming to be Moses parting the Red (Reed) Sea and leading the people, etc. i've yet to hear about an Islamist video of a Jihadist mass-murdering suicider claiming to be the Leader of the Jews as per his last message...(then, again, can't say that for certain, since I don't watch the Islamist nutter's (as in psychopathic/sociopathic) videos -- I hear they quote from the Koran.)

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 4:57 PM

If Cho was not a Muslim then why the hex CAIR would care to make these statements ?-

"We offer the American Muslim community's sincere and heartfelt condolences to the families and loved ones of all those who were killed or injured in yesterday's tragic events on the campus of Virginia Tech. It is at such times of tragedy and loss that Americans must come together to offer support to those who suffered such heartbreaking losses as a result of this senseless crime."
...

I have the right to know and read the complete script and see the compete video of CHO which was made available to NBC.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 19, 2007 5:02 PM

I don't watch the Islamist nutter's (as in psychopathic/sociopathic) videos -- I hear they quote from the Koran.

Do you have a link?

Posted by: J. at April 19, 2007 5:03 PM

Cho is a microcosm of the prevailing Islamic mental construct.” I will say no matter the outcome of this investigation his psychosis has some eerie similarities to be drawn. Either by direct influence or not they are very similar.

Man is it Muslims who mass murder at schools, restaurants and post offices everyday? I think not my friends. There are many in America who love to look for the scapegoat for all of their jammed up issues instead at looking in their own homes. You people have such hatred of a group that you do not understand so you spew with hatred.

You guys respect Robert Spencer's books on Islam even though this guy has no background on Islam. Like I have mentioned above, deal with your own sick home grown mass murders (or potential mass murdering sleeper cells) and don't get caught up with this fake threat because its your own that is killing people. Dont come with that he is "Korean speech" he grew up here in the suburbs of America. Just like many of the mass murders from the past few years. Wake up!

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 5:06 PM

J.S.,

"i've yet to hear about an Islamist video of a Jihadist mass-murdering suicider claiming to be the Leader of the Jews as per his last message"

The point is, we should not be looking at all Islamic-influenced attacks under a Black-White Either/Or prism where, if the attack does not follow strict guidelines of definition of a "jihadist", then it cannot have been influenced by Islam. There may be many shades in between. We may find in the days and years ahead many non-Muslims who are drawn to the Islamic nebula because it has become the leading vehicle for anti-Western hate and anomie, and which in turn becomes for them a vehicle for their expression of violence. Cho may have been one of them: that doesn't mean he had to have taken the Shahada and have attended mosque regularly.

A wanna-be quasi-jihadist, influenced by Islamic ideas, is a separate category from the wacko killers who go postal for reasons completely unrelated to Islam. We should not be so quickly apodictic, as Spencer seems to be, to eliminate from existence -- and therefore from consideration as relevantly significant for the future prevention or at least minimization -- this separate category.

Posted by: remote_control at April 19, 2007 5:11 PM

J. There are a zillion Internet sites devoted to Shuhada videos. (I wouldn't suggest you visit these sites...no links.) There is Memri.org website (go to www.memri.org and look at the left-hand column -- they have a feature which monitors the Islamist websites...the Islamists claim their websites are bing shut down.)

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 5:13 PM

"If Cho was not a Muslim then why the hex CAIR would care to make these statements" ?

"I find it odd that you are so quick to dismiss speculation, seeing as you (and the rest of us) have only about 10% of the evidence available, the rest of it being withheld from us by authorities. The 10% of evidence we are privy to contains some strange hints of Islamic influence. There's nothing "odd" about wondering about the rest of the evidence -- particularly since the very withholding itself smells suspicious."

Man some of you people are hilarious. If CAIR says nothing they don't care about renouncing violence. If they do renounce it then they are admitting guilt.

If he is Muslim than this is what is expected and if he isn't than he was influenced by them...Come on people what about the daily murders, rapes,assaults spousal abuse etc...Is this done because people are reading the Quran too much?

My fellow Americans when will you realize that many parts of American society have been jammed up before 9/11 and they continue to get worse. You can blame "Moslems", Muhamadeans, Jihadists all day and all night but that does not change the fact that this is still the most violent "civilized" society in the world.

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 5:16 PM

Al-Jazeera reported 20 dead and 29 injured. Praise be to Allah.

Praise be to Allah for these calamities hitting America. By the will of Allah, more of this [will happen], following their defeat in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As Muslims, our real condolences to you is to help you absolutely destroy your criminal democracy. By the vulnerable people in the Earth.

Come on Rob this guy is as ignorant as some of the people who write on your blog.

Muslims leaders, groups have to now answer to fools like this one blogger or few idiots who claim they know about Islam. Look at the some ignorant comments written on your blog and compare to this ignorant fool and you will see no matter where you come from you have fools in every religion,race and country.

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 5:21 PM

You guys respect Robert Spencer's books on Islam even though this guy has no background on Islam. !
Posted by: eessaa [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 19, 2007 05:06 PM
----------

EESSAA - you are clueless about RS. He knows more about Islam than all the Muslim Umma put together. My advise to you would be to read any of his books, and tell us what did he write that is not true about Islam.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 19, 2007 5:21 PM

My advise to you would be to read any of his books, and tell us what did he write that is not true about Islam.

I will happy to do so.

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 5:26 PM

Remote,

I think it would be very odd (to say the least) for someone to live in today's world and be unaware of Islam and suicide bombers -- the whole script? or act? (the whole performance). It's part of today's Zeitgeist - and so, it wouldn't be all that unusual to have an insane person picking up a few "pointers" from an Islamic script..muttering some phrases from the koran, etc., but in the end, the person is certifiably insane (not a jihadist convert).

What I think could be a detour (like a distraction) is for people to simply write-off the Islamists as "nut jobs" -- or, "hey, they're just psychotics." This absolves them of accountability. There's an article by Daniel Pipes about those two assassins -- remember those two who drove around, and how the media refused to acknowledge any connection with Islam, when, in fact, one of the murderers had a direct connection with Islam? I think that article is interesting to re-read now.

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 5:28 PM

If CAIR says nothing they don't care about renouncing violence. If they do renounce it then they are admitting guilt.--EERREE

EERREE - you'r missing the point. I think CAIR is pre-empting what may be going to creep and crawl out of an Arabic rug. I will try to get a copy of the complete script and post it here unless someone beats me to it.

I am saying why the hex CAIR has to make wishy-washy statements unless they have some vetted interest. I don't trust CAIR an inch. I smell something here...not good.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 19, 2007 5:32 PM

I will happy to do so.
Posted by: eessaa [TypeKey Profile Page] at April 19, 2007 05:26 PM

I have read this kind of stuff many times.. but never seen any results.

eerree - keep your promise dude. We want to know what is written in RS's books which is not true about Islam?

I think Robert is smiling about this one ;)

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 19, 2007 5:36 PM

Link to Daniel Pipes article ("The Snipers: Crazy or Jihadis")

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/493

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 5:37 PM

1) I think he was apart of the Nation of Islam. totally different relgion

2) We want to know what is written in RS's books which is not true about Islam? Ok just tell me where should I write it i.e on this post or another post?

Posted by: eessaa at April 19, 2007 6:07 PM

eessaa,
First of all where have you been for the last 20 years ... a hole in the ground? I never once said this Cho was a Muslim, only that his manifesto sounds very much like similar Islamic martyrdom manifestos. I wasn't "drooling and praying" that he was anything I was merely making an observation. When I say his manifesto is to be compared loosly to Islamic ideology and justification for murder in these terms "Inane ramblings, self-righteous accusations, murderous rage, sexual frustration, paranoid accusations." The parallel seems all to simple to require further description. Here is an irrational lunatic. Mr. Cho is an insane man. On the other hand you have Islamic militants, who spew very similar rants and justifications ... i think this much is clear. Clearly most Islamic militants are not insane like Mr. Cho is, on the contrary they have very rational clear reasons for their murderous behavior. Ask yourself why would a rational sane person sound very much like an insane person, or vice versa then actually read some of Mr. Spencers books and soberly answer your own questions.

Posted by: Ameriki at April 19, 2007 6:08 PM

"Man is it Muslims who mass murder at schools, restaurants and post offices everyday?"

Sweetheart pick any week, any week you like since Jihad Watch came about, go through the archives and check out the articles from all around the world and you will see that Muslims do indeed commit mass murder at schools, restaurants and post offices, and Shi'te districts, and Sunni districts and outdoor markets and in residential neighborhoods, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Here's one just from today.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20070419-014543-1355r.htm

"You people have such hatred of a group that you do not understand so you spew with hatred."

You are a hypocrite, bud. But, hey, what's a little taqiya in your quest to reinstate the caliphate, huh?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at April 19, 2007 6:09 PM

Remote, just a brief note (forgot to mention), I don't think it would be impossible for a jihadist to also be a psychotic (or a Jihadist and a raving lunatic, it's possible to be both); it's just that in this instance, with Cho, I don't think he's that (at least, not enough evidence at this point in time)...he's a delusional psychotic (who should have been committed before he caused harm).

Posted by: J.S. at April 19, 2007 6:15 PM

J.S.,

The Beltway snipers that you adduce didn't follow the jihadist "script". We only learned about an Islamic connection months later, from writings one of them made in his private journal.

The Muslim who tried to mass-murder people in Seattle (but only was able to murder one woman and wound 5), Naveed Afzal Haq, didn't follow the jihadist "script".

The Muslim, Mohammed Reva Taheriazar, who tried to mass-murder people on the UNC-Chapel Hill campus by running them over with his SUV didn't follow the jihadist "script" -- except insofar as he told police afterward that it was retribution for the treatment of Muslims around the world.

The Bosnian Muslim, Sulejman Talovic, who was gunning people down in the mall in Utah (and managed to murder five) didn't follow a jihadist "script".

Even the London bombers and the Madrid bombers didn't follow most of the jihadist "script".

What is the jihadist "script", anyway? Are we using the Palestinian shaheeds and the 911 hijackers as the rigid template, where every jihadist must follow their actions to the letter, else we cannot say that Islam and its ideological nebula is part of the problem here? Maintaining a script that is too rigid would be to set in stone an erroneous expectation similar to the one that prevailed prior to 911, where the use of hijacked jets as weapons themselves was not contemplated since intelligence analysts were, for the most part, thinking rigidly inside the box.

(On a not unrelated note, the tactics & strategy of World War One -- from its first moments -- came as a complete surprise to most strategists who were thinking in the 19th century military box; then the strategists after World War One persisted in thinking that any next war must follow the new template of the preceding war, World War One, and they in turn were in for a complete surprise by the new tactics & strategy of Hitler. Much mayhem and deaths could have been avoided had the tendency for Box-Think not been so prevalent. Most of us today are in a similar situation now, thinking inside a Box about our current War, thinking it must follow the templates of previous wars.)

Posted by: remote_control at April