Jihad Watch: Pennsylvania Imam Fouad ElBayly: Ayaan Hirsi Ali should be put to death

April 22, 2007

Pennsylvania Imam Fouad ElBayly: Ayaan Hirsi Ali should be put to death

But only in a Muslim country, not in America, and "it's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it."

A "community debate" in Pennsylvania: "Furor over author Ayaan Hirsi Ali's visit stirs debate on religious freedom," by Robin Acton in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, with thanks to Joe:

...A community debate over religious freedom surfaced in Western Pennsylvania last week when Dutch feminist author Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who has lived under the threat of death for denouncing her Muslim upbringing, made an appearance at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown.
Islamic leaders tried to block the lecture, which was sponsored through an endowment from the Frank J. and Sylvia T. Pasquerilla Lecture Series. They argued that Hirsi Ali's attacks against the Muslim faith in her book, "Infidel," and movie, "Submission," are "poisonous and unjustified" and create dissension in their community.

Although university officials listened to Islamic leaders' concerns, the lecture planned last year took place Tuesday evening under tight security, with no incidents.

Imam Fouad ElBayly, president of the Johnstown Islamic Center, was among those who objected to Hirsi Ali's appearance.

"She has been identified as one who has defamed the faith. If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death," said ElBayly, who came to the U.S. from Egypt in 1976.

Hirsi Ali, an atheist, has been critical of many Muslim beliefs, particularly on subjects of sexual morality, the treatment of women and female genital mutilation. In her essay "The Caged Virgin," she also wrote of punishment, noting that "a Muslim's relationship with God is one of fear."

"Our God demands total submission. He rewards you if you follow His rules meticulously. He punishes you cruelly if you break His rules, both on earth, with illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire," she wrote....

Although ElBayly believes a death sentence is warranted for Hirsi Ali, he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime should be punished. Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added.

"If it is found that a person is mentally unstable, or a child or disabled, there should be no punishment," he said. "It's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it."

Zahida Chaudhary, a member of the education council and education secretary at the Muslim Community Center of Greater Pittsburgh in Monroeville, insisted that Islam is a peaceful religion.

"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity," she said. "My understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice. He tried to teach people and bring them into it, not punish them."

In fact, he said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him'" (Bukhari 9.84.57).

Posted by Robert at April 22, 2007 2:44 PM
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The cultured Ayaan Hirsi Ali lives under protection. The primitive Fouad ElBayly probably has none, but retains the respect generally afforded clergyman. Meanwhile, Zahida Chaudhary plays the Song of Happy Islamic Tolerance. He's worse, whether or not he understands himself to be talking goofy nonsense.

We are letting wolves in. The ruling elite is to blame.

Posted by: StillBreathing

at April 22, 2007 3:18 PM

So who's more likely to get investigated by the FBI, ElBayly or Hirsi Ali? My guess is the latter. Sooner or later those that protect her will let her down and she'll have to leave even THIS country, like she left the Netherlands.

Posted by: wrathofasma

at April 22, 2007 3:25 PM

"Our God demands total submission. He rewards you if you follow His rules meticulously. He punishes you cruelly if you break His rules, both on earth, with illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire," she wrote....

That's interesting... Jesus forgives your sins, and Allah wants you to, "meticulously" follow his rules, that no one can completely follow, since we are all sinners...

Cheers,

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Posted by: Doctor Bulldog

at April 22, 2007 3:26 PM

"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity,"

Peacemaker! ROFLMAO, how many military raids and wars this peacemaker did? How many millions been put under the blade in his very name, following his direct example.

Role model for humanity, No! Only for people having a hard time finding their way to humanity, exemplified by a long list of failed nation, which worship, guess who?

Posted by: TBH_1

at April 22, 2007 3:29 PM

h illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire," she wrote....

it seems the muslims are punished by their own god!
hell with a god like who needs the devil! oh in islam they are one in the same..

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 22, 2007 3:33 PM

I am DYING to know if any of this is being printed in the Pittsburgh newspapers. Anyone from Pittsburgh?

Posted by: poetcomic1

at April 22, 2007 3:37 PM

In cutting to the chase, let us define exactly what American Islam is in being a caste system.

I have seen enough of the solemn thug males lurking around Mosques flexing power in tiny enclaves deciding what is and what is not in America.
I have seen the peaceful solitude of Islamic women in the scarf hiding from a world they are afraid to step out into and calling it religion.
I have seen the gleaming eyes of young girls enraptured in "being Muslim" like a right of female passage.

Each and every one of the above thinks they control the world and outsiders are nothing as Americans are not allowed in.

This caste though is making huge mistakes in trouncing everyone in their thug Islam male or female.
They also in their giggles of power have forgotten the one measure of Islam. Middle Eastern Muslims think their Islam is thee Islam and Americans have been warned to flee or become fodder.

ElBayly might be on the perch calling out death today, but the day is coming when the real hawk of prey is going to stick his nuclear talons into all American Muslims. His name is bin Laden with his featherling Islamocommunist Zawahiri.

The Muslim Brotherhood of Keith Ellison might think like ElBayly they are in charge, but their death will be at the hands of the bigger buzzard of al Qaeda.
What comes around goes around Muslims and your time will come at the hands of those you seek to protect now.

Posted by: Lame Cherry

at April 22, 2007 3:38 PM

"She has been identified as one who has defamed the faith. If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death," said ElBayly, who came to the U.S. from Egypt in 1976.

If this guy really said that and it can be proven in a court of Law that he did.. He should be indicted.

Who is *he* to sentence people to death in this country?

What he did could be viewed as a viloation of Ms. Ali's Civil Rights for starters.

Then we have "making a terrorist threat".

And last not least sedition for handing our legfal sentences without authority do do so.

In light of how violent these moslems get the words of their "clergy" have to be taken in context of the likely to be expected actions of their followers.

These comments are not being made in a vacuum.

Posted by: Allahfanculo

at April 22, 2007 3:40 PM

This imam should be booted out of the country for threatening Ms. Ali, despite the fact that he couched his threat in roundabout terms. It's the imam who should be deported to stand trial for being a dangerous moron. We shoudn't tolerate this sort of garbage.
Hirsi Ali is a brilliant and beautiful woman who epitomizes everything good in a person.

Posted by: jewdog

at April 22, 2007 3:42 PM

See...

She is doing her job!

Nothing and I mean nothing can bring a Imam out his shell like Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Come you can't beat this quote:

"She has been identified as one who has defamed the faith. If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death," said ElBayly

No matter what you think of her liberal world view dam she is good...

That is why they pay her the big bucks!

Posted by: greatcometof1577

at April 22, 2007 3:44 PM

I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith.

She is a convicted lier. She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 3:47 PM

"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity," she said. "My understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice. He tried to teach people and bring them into it, not punish them."

Umm... which Prophet Mohammed is she thinking of??

Posted by: Cheeky Human

at April 22, 2007 3:49 PM

Abdullah

You are a convicted troll...

You know what the means for ye!

Posted by: greatcometof1577

at April 22, 2007 3:49 PM

Thanks, Abdullah, for providing us with yet another example of Islam's wonderful tolerance, in the unlikely event that we needed another one on this thread.

Posted by: materialguy

at April 22, 2007 3:54 PM

Zahida Chaudhary is the "education secretary" at the Muslim Community Center of Greater Pittsburgh, and her "understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice". If what Robert posts- "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" is in fact text in the koran, do that many Muslims not know the koran, especially an "education secretary"?

Will CAIR remain silent on the rantings of this imam in America, or comment on this, so as to promote better understanding?

Good to see the hit counter at JW approaching 10 million.

Posted by: JBarsimson

at April 22, 2007 3:54 PM

Irshad Manji, another Islamic dissident but also a devout believer, says that according to Mohammad,

"the blood of the scholar is worth more than the blood of the martyr".

So where are the Muslim scholars?

Are these brave women the only ones who will stand up to the barbarities of Islam?

I'm also not sure exactly how to interpret those words. Mohammad says the blood of the scholar, not the life of the scholar. Are the scholars to be killed first (as happens in many revolutions) or are their lives more valuable than those of the martyrs?

Posted by: PMK

at April 22, 2007 4:02 PM

at this point, can we direct the FBI's attention to the poster Abdullah?

so many who are streaming into this country honestly support the imams over hirsi ali. such people are allowed to live here, allowed to have children, allowed to teach. they walk unmolested.

they have their apologists, too. the crowd who says, "islam is misunderstood" or "the problem is fundamentalism of any kind" or "islam is a religion, protected by the first amendment."

Posted by: StillBreathing

at April 22, 2007 4:05 PM

regarding Mad Mo being for "peace":
Karl Marx defined peace as "the absence of opposition to socialism"

Similarly, to the Islamic mind, peace can only come when Islam dominates the world. So a psychotic murderer and rapist, in the Islamic mind, can truly be for "peace" if he works toward Islamic domination.

As Abdullah keeps demonstrating on this forum, there can be no peace with Islam, by the Western definition. There can be no co-existance with Islam.

Posted by: PapaBear

at April 22, 2007 4:09 PM

I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith.

THAT is why you and your ilk don;t belong among civilized people in civilized nations.

q.e.d.

She is a convicted lier. She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!
Posted by: Abdullah

don't even start with that one. The whole thing was a sham because she was speaking out and she was upsetting the apple cart.

Let's start by examining very closely the asylum applications of moslems world-wide, shall we?

I have yet to hear one moslem explain to me why they like to stay in our countries whose people they hate.

I am not holding my breath.

If the moslems would go back to their countries then we'd have peace - at least in the West.

Posted by: Allahfanculo

at April 22, 2007 4:10 PM

"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity," she said. "My understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice. He tried to teach people and bring them into it, not punish them."

I've never been able to make up my mind as to whether these Muslim clerics are flat-out liars, or, if somewhere along the way, the ability to think rationally has been obliterated from their consciousness.

They seem to move effortlessly from contridiction to contridiction, and to ignore the most obvious evidence, in defending the indefensible in their religion.

In one sentence they tell us that "he (Mohammad)He tried to teach people and bring them into it (Islam) , not punish them." or that "let there be no compulsion in religion" is the governing doctrine of Islam concerning freedom of religion.

In the next sentence, and with the greatest of ease, without any thought of contridiction, they mandate death for anyone who converts from Islam or defames Islam or the Prophet.

All done without blinking an eye or betraying the slightest hint of embarrasment.

Could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness?

There has to be some explanation.

Posted by: rational

at April 22, 2007 4:13 PM

Why do we let these crazies into the country? Bann the Cowran in the US for good.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 4:17 PM

I just want to make a quick distinction between Johnstown and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a large city. Johnstown is a very traditional, socially conservative Appalachian town well outside the metro area. There are probably all of about 5-10 moonbats in the Johnstown area. This Imam can't count on the blinkered brigade to back him up.

He should learn to lie better, like his big city sister Zahida Chaudhary, or he might get himself in some trouble.

Posted by: Jan Sobieski

at April 22, 2007 4:24 PM

Could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness?

Posted by: rational at April 22, 2007 04:13 PM

LOL!!!

I am amazed that this mental state exist only amongst Muslims - they are all Mohamadized. That is a serious mental illness. They are perpetual liars. No wonder they hate life and they hate this world, because they are Mohamadized. I wonder who put 'Mad' in MohaMad's name.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 4:38 PM

What these women seek is attension and loadz of the cash straight out of the infidel pockets, truely their songs are music to the ears of the Islamophobe and their words a comfort to the hearts of every wicked disbeliever!!!

I feel sorry for these women, they have departed the party of Allah for the party of the shytaan, indeed the party of the losers!! Alhamdulillah more and more people are leaving shytaan's party in droves for Islam, I can already think of 3 reverts this week alone.

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 4:39 PM

"Although ElBayly believes a death sentence is warranted for Hirsi Ali"

Sounds like incitement to murder to me

"he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime"

it is not a crime in America.

"should be punished."

Can be punished. Free speech is protected here.

"Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added."

Well, let's see, did she commit the alleged "crime" in another country which has an extradition treaty with America that covers such "crimes"? Good luck on that one, El-Boy.

On the other hand, Elbow has stated Ayaan Hirsi Ali has committed a fictitious crime worthy of a real death sentence. Now THAT sounds like slander to me. Imagine the damage to her reputation that has been done, and her a professional writer and speaker at that. One could probably attribute lost revenue from honoraria from universities which might otherwise have had her speak. Especially if any organization campaigned inappropriately to have her censored based on such.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 4:40 PM

"Why do we let these crazies into the country? Bann the Cowran in the US for good."

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 04:17 PM

That could get you a death sentence in the U.S. now days.

Posted by: rational

at April 22, 2007 4:40 PM

Mr. Spencer, if you know Ms. Hirsi Ali, she should be immediately advised to go to the police department in Pittsburgh and fill out a complaint against Mr. ElBayly. Mr. ElBayly by his speech has committed the crime of conspiring to commit murder contrary to the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. This is not like Holland. A complaint should immediately be filed. Mr. ElBayly should be arrested to conspiring to commit murder. If she fills out a criminal information, ElBayly is likely to be arrested.

Jihad Watch needs its own civil defense cases. We should all help her if she needs a legal fund. Also, by registering her legitimate complaint it will further draw attention to the vile threats made by these vermin against her. We need to protect her.

Threats of murder are going to become more common as people try to educate Americans about the dangers of Islam.

Posted by: David England

at April 22, 2007 4:41 PM

". . .when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death . . ."

Only in America can a Mohammedan say this and get away with it. Imagine Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell saying something similar. The calls for their hides would ring all the way from MSNBC to The Los Angeles Times.

The fundamental jihadists will not hear this part: ". . . he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime should be punished. Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added." They will hear the first part and maybe act on it. ElBayly needs to be deported yesterday.

Posted by: Pelayo

at April 22, 2007 4:42 PM

That is why I support non-violent means to give dawah to our fellow human beings (at the end of the day we all share the same father and mother). Im sure you guys know why our parents are evicted out of 'adan. They fell for shytaan's whispers and forgot their lord. They fell.

We risk falling even further into the pits of hell fire If make the same mistake. Let us rectify the mess Ibliss got us into and ascend upwards back to Jannah instead of descending to hell...

Laugh all you want, oneday you won't be laughing

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 4:46 PM

"I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law...."
Posted by: Abdullah

Leaving aside the argument that there is no "Islamic Law" in Britain, could you be more clear, Abdullah? Are you saying you will kill her? Do you have a sword? Do you intend to use it?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 4:47 PM

That could get you a death sentence in the U.S. now days.

Posted by: rational at April 22, 2007 04:40 PM

NA!! Get out of here. Not in my neck of the woods. I am not scared of the nitwits.

I am working on a case that Cowran is an evil script incites people who follow it to hate others.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 4:48 PM

"Laugh all you want, oneday you won't be laughing"
Posted by: Abdullah

Is that a threat, Abdullah?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 4:48 PM

"Mr. Spencer, if you know Ms. Hirsi Ali, she should be immediately advised to go to the police department in Pittsburgh and fill out a complaint against Mr. ElBayly. Mr. ElBayly by his speech has committed the crime of conspiring to commit murder contrary to the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. This is not like Holland. A complaint should immediately be filed. Mr. ElBayly should be arrested to conspiring to commit murder. If she fills out a criminal information, ElBayly is likely to be arrested."

this is the the best comment so far. she really needs to press charges. can you persuade her to do this robert? please.

or could i press charges on her behalf? what's the law regarding this? i would willingly call the FBI right now, can someone please, if they know the law, respond to my request. thanks!

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer

at April 22, 2007 4:50 PM

Another article, same author, same paper, similar subject:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_503268.html

Etta Albright, a member of the Altoona chapter of the national Peace Alliance, said she was "saddened" by what she called the negative impact and threat Hirsi Ali's appearance presented to the Islamic community.
"I sympathize with the Muslim community's concerns on what kind of inflammatory impact this could have on the community," she said.

Posted by: kamala

at April 22, 2007 4:53 PM

I am not threatening anybody. I hate to be threatened, so why would I threaten others? Putting touchy feelings aside, Justice is Justice. The woman has committed an injustice against God, and for that she should be put on trial as the imam said in a Muslim country.

The other point I was making is I personally think If like me, the west married Islam, we will be the best people set forth for mankind, Islam together with our sense of uprightness. I am not calling for Naseem's 50/50 version.

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 4:57 PM

Johnstown Islamic Center, huh? Sounds like a
target rich environment to me.

Zahida Chaudahry is a liar. Old Mo was a murderer,
liar, pedophile, rapist, and thief. Worshipping him
through his sock puppet Allah is just sick. But
there is no shortage of sick people.

Posted by: root_cause

at April 22, 2007 5:00 PM

"The woman has committed an injustice against God, and for that she should be put on trial as the imam said in a Muslim country."

That's not how justice works, or how extradition works. She didn't the "crime" in a country where it is illegal, so it is not a crime. Are you advocating kidnapping her and rendering her to a Muslim country?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 5:01 PM

Abdullah, you sound like a bored 14-year old Jew somewhere in Teaneck who was told by his mom, "no more prank calls."

Posted by: kamala

at April 22, 2007 5:02 PM

Abdullah, you are victim of the satanic death demonic force, that took over mohammed's mind, now i see that its taken over your mind too. how sad.you simply need delivarance.

Posted by: ismail

at April 22, 2007 5:02 PM

Abdullah, If only Mohammedans are in heaven, I'd rather be with my friends. I am not saying this for the sick humor value; I really mean it.

I say this knowing full well that I am not damned for believing that Islam is a sham invented by the grandaddy of all grifters.

I also like the part of Islam that does not allow prayers for infidels. I would be insulted if I thought that some Mohammedan was praying to Allah and used my name, even if it is my TypeKey nickname.

Posted by: Pelayo

at April 22, 2007 5:03 PM

"The woman has committed an injustice against God, and for that she should be put on trial as the imam said in a Muslim country."

Maybe they could try her in abstentia and she could give testimony by video link?

Abdullah, perhaps you could point us toward the exact statues of jurisprudence where a municipality can convict or even try someone of a "crime" committed outside its jurisdiction.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 5:04 PM

Hey Abdullah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpKlbhpfYL8

Posted by: km

at April 22, 2007 5:08 PM

The other point I was making is I personally think If like me, the west married Islam, we will be the best people set forth for mankind..
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 04:57 PM

Abdullah, what exactly that you people smoke and dream up with absurd ideas? Whatever it is, its fogging your brain out completely.

Can you care name lets say two good things for the mankind that came out of Islamic countries (notice plural)?

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 5:08 PM

True, some of you will never revert to the religion of your fore-father like Ibrahim(peace be upon him). You will die the death of ignorance, in darkness your soul will be torn out of your body be angels

1. By the (angels) who tear out (the souls of the wicked) with violence;

2. By those who gently draw out (the souls of the blessed);

3. And by those who glide along (on errands of mercy),

4. Then press forward as in a race,

5. Then arrange to do (the Commands of their Lord),

6. One Day everything that can be in commotion will be in violent commotion,

7. Followed by oft-repeated (commotions):

8. Hearts that Day will be in agitation;

9. Cast down will be (their owners') eyes.

I am sure some of you might well become Muslim in the future, how many haters became lovers

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 5:09 PM

hello house, that imam must be held accountable for his words, we must take him to court.he must explain his words.i am willing to send funds.please people this is our chance to start to do something.let use the law to talk to this madness.
Robert please advice.i am just sick of this madness. i understand if this happen in my country(nigeria) we have learnt to leave with this islamic madness.

Posted by: ismail

at April 22, 2007 5:10 PM

Come on, Abdullah, answer the question

Are you advocating kidnapping her and rendering her to a Muslim country?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 5:14 PM

(Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends (and ally) with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are wrong-doers.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 5:14 PM

NOOOOOO I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT BECAUSE WE MUSLIMS RESPECT THE SOVEREIGHTY OF KUFFAR NATIONS UNLIKE THE KUFFAR THEY DONT RESPECT US

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 5:15 PM

We must not tolerate statements by creatures such as Fouad "Fraud" ElBayly in the US. He must be deported as soon as possible; preferably, he would be coated in tar with a layer of feathers and tied to a fence rail (figuratively, of course).

Posted by: Pelayo

at April 22, 2007 5:18 PM

abdullah, islam is satan worhip, and i was one and i know for a fact. you are possessed by a demon and you need help.you have gone too deep, you have lost your mind, so calling for someones death don't mean a thing to you.
i am not going to mince words at all "you are of your father satan"
your heart is hardened with hate.and trully islam is to blame.
you can talk smart talk all you want, you are already basking in madness and insanity.

Posted by: ismail

at April 22, 2007 5:18 PM

Abdullah posted: She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!

Most of the Muslims in the UK are either illegals or have lied on their application forms. Lying to the Kuffar is a requirement for Muslims.

Posted by: DP111

at April 22, 2007 5:19 PM

I agree that we should corner ElBayly ASAP and try everthing do-able to send him back packing.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 5:19 PM

pelayo, i say we get this started i will to join others in funding legal stuff.this man must be held accountable for his words

Posted by: ismail

at April 22, 2007 5:20 PM

Islam did not come to break the ties between human beings, to spread hatred and enmity, or to encourage bloodshed. Nor did it come to eliminate the freedom of choice in this life, which is secured by God. Indeed, even Satan was granted the freedom to choose between obeying and disobeying his Lord, he misused this gift and chose to disobey.

Read this, this is what Islam gave humanity

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/asim_siddiqui/2006/04/freedom_of_conscience_in_islam.html

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 5:20 PM

Islam frees the human being from being prisoner in shytan's web of worshipping the created and turn him/her to the worship of the unseen God in the sky, the creator. In this sense Islam frees the mind from tempation to fascism like the Nazis and materialism, atheism which is the father of all evil ideologies. Islam protects society from fornication and exploiting women's sexuality, thus protects women.

Silly you lol I never applied to come to England.

Always remember this verse about Islam

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 5:27 PM

"NOOOOOO I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT BECAUSE WE MUSLIMS RESPECT THE SOVEREIGHTY [sic] OF KUFFAR NATIONS UNLIKE THE KUFFAR THEY DONT RESPECT US"
Posted by: Abdullah

Really? Well, it's not a crime here. So respect the sovereignty of the kuffar nations and don't be seen to be grazing too close to the kuffar "pasture" of crimes of slander, incitement to murder, and incitement to kidnapping.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 5:27 PM

Abdulla is getting irritated on this thread. Wuts-up Abdulla, are you making plans to meet 72 virgins, not getting any of it on this planet, right?

Abdulla, get a real life and live it, forget about Satanism. There are no virgins waiting for you, its only the dudes, so called your brothers, waiting to take 'CARE' of your wife ;) on this paradise. Smarten-up a bit, read some real books. Cowran is a cut and bad-pasting of very old Jewish and Christian scripts.

Mohd. was a mad man, once you understand that you will live in peace and happily.

Just GO FOR THAT!

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 5:28 PM

Thus I am not forbidden in dealing kindly with non-muslims. Allah commands us to deal kindly with non-muslims, and not to insult your false gods. ISLAM GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT 1400 YEARS AGO when centuries latter you were persecuting the muslims

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 5:30 PM

Abdulla, what exactly is original in Cowran that has not been written thosuands years before it?

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 22, 2007 5:34 PM

Islam did not come to break the ties between human beings, to spread hatred and enmity, or to encourage bloodshed. Nor did it come to eliminate the freedom of choice in this life, which is secured by God

Umm... which Islam is he talking about??

Oh, right, it's the toned down one they pull out when talking to the infidels.

Posted by: Cheeky Human

at April 22, 2007 5:50 PM

The idea of actually killing someone who decides to leave a religion probably was a feature of prehistoric faiths, way before people figured out that live and let live was socially constructive.
This imam probably moonlights as a character actor for Geico.

Posted by: jewdog

at April 22, 2007 5:50 PM

Abby (normal) wrote:

"I feel sorry for these women, they have departed the party of Allah for the party of the shytaan..."

Let me get this straight. Shaitan (or however you wish to spell it) is the name of the 'great deceiver' and variants of it exist in many present and past religions.

So when the quran says "allah is the greatest deceiver" then what--allah is just better at fooling his people than satan?

__________________

Rational commented:

"Could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness?

There has to be some explanation."

Your problem is that you're trying to apply rationality to what is inherently irrational. This'll just give you headaches.

So unless you wish to devote a large portion of your life to the study of circular reasoning, solypsistic argument, and magical thinking you're wasting a lot of good thinking.

Don't reinvent the wheel. Prior to Psychiatry's switchover to medication therapy in the late '60s, the above were highly studied and written about.

Or put another way, "could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness"?

Nope. Get any 'slammi on an old-fashioned shrink's couch and you'll have quite an accurate diagnosis.

Posted by: turn

at April 22, 2007 5:56 PM

Mushuntcowboy, you and your religion, christianity, are in no position to redicule Islam. Islam came to renew what came before it with all the prophets, really Islam was sent to rectify your pollution of God's message.

Take for example this contradiction from the bible...Is Jesus equal to or lesser than God?

JOH 10:30I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:00 PM

The problem with Abdullah's citation of Koran 60:8-9 as a paramount verse of Islamic tolerance is that the key phrase

-- ALLAH only forbids you [from allying yourselves in friendship with] those who have fought against you on account of your religion and have driven you out of your homes, and have helped others in driving you out --

is that throughout history, Muslims have defined "those who have fought against you" in very elastic terms: e.g., if a Muslim leader feels the need to expand the Islamic Lebensraum by "inviting" the people of Egypt in the 7th century to revert to Islam and when they then refuse, then that Muslim leader sets about to offensively conquer Egypt through military means and the people of Egypt resist -- then those people of Egypt are in fact defined as "fighting against the Muslims" and as dispossessing the Muslims from their rightful territory (just as Hitler used the same logic when expanding Germany's territory through military attacks on lands he defined as belonging truly to the German Master Race -- which eventually would be the entire Earth if he had had his way): and therefore, Abdullah's pet verse stands and is not contradicted: it is only cleverly massaged into flexibility through a semantic loophole.

And, wheresoever Koranic verses are not amenable to semantic loopholes, there is always the mechanism of the "abrogating" ayat (nashkh), whereby the later more militant suras of the Qur'an (e.g., 2, 8 and 9) -- after Mohammed was in a stronger position in Medina and didn't therefore have to pretend to be compliant with his stronger enemies -- override or abrogate the earlier more tolerant verses.

Meanwhile, when Muslims recede into weaker positions again, Muslims like Abdullah can pretend that the concept of abrogation does not exist or that verses 60:8-9 absolutely prohibit offensive military jihad even when offensive is camouflaged as "defensive" -- in order to lull the Infidels into complacency about the ulterior motives of Islam.

Posted by: remote_control

at April 22, 2007 6:01 PM

For my father is greater than I says Jesus, unless he was mentally disturbed, he is clearly speaking of someone else...right? How can he claim God and he are one and yet say actually God is greater than I??? PAGANS NEVER WIN

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:03 PM

Oh, good one, abby (normal).

If you take a cup to the sea and fill it with the seawater are the contents of that cup not 'one' with the ocean from which it was temporarily drawn?

But of course, the Ocean is greater than the Cup.

Don't even TRY to use NT arguments here--there are too many who understand the concept of the Three in One.

Posted by: turn

at April 22, 2007 6:05 PM

Or when you say he was the son of God, do you mean he was the biological son of God? I am confused with this confusing religion corrupted by paul.

If you say NO, then was Jesus same as you and I, in that we were all created by God?

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:05 PM

Jesus was God made Man. That is to say that because God is infinite and could only be revealed to a select few in the OT for mere moments because of His overwhelming Presence, Jesus then, was the embodiment of God in Man so that He could live and walk among us, sharing the Love that can bring anyone to the Kingdom of God.

Posted by: turn

at April 22, 2007 6:14 PM

hey Abdullah you talk about respecting Kafir lands,
do you know enough history? when mulims expanded outside of land of the Sauds arabia, those lands they siezed where not muslim lands, they were kaffir, ie iran,
iraq, North AFrica, those lands were not muslim, they were taken over by the muslim sword, muslim went into India with the sword, and you have the pak,
all these lands were not muslim. so if properly they should be taken back by those descendents of those ancestors killed and forced to convert to islam.
those proud Christians, and Jews who paid the tax and survived can also demand back taxes paid to muslim nations. the muslims need to be driven back to their tents in the deserts of Sauds arabia country.
so Abdullah what is your parents nationality? are they from the land of Saud? if they were not from the line of Saud, you owe your ancestors revenge for the killings and murder by the arab muslims overlords.
Abdullah do really know your history? or are you a sponge from the land of the Sauds? Do you now
work and kill for the your Saudi masters?

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 22, 2007 6:21 PM

Abdulla..

Please consider volunteering for the next space shot to the Moon or better yet, Mars..both look sandy, rocky, devoid of water and here's the REAL DEAL ABDULLAH..just get the Koreans to clone your DNA and you don't even need females to sully your heavenly next place for yourself and like minded (billion 1/2 at last count) males (women count 1/4th)...just you ABDULLAH,, you could be the next L. Ron Hubbard of Scientology (Islam)on two new planets

Posted by: nodak

at April 22, 2007 6:21 PM

"If it is found that a person is mentally unstable, or a child or disabled, there should be no punishment," he (ElBayly) said. "It's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it."

That's good news for ElBayly.

Posted by: Frank

at April 22, 2007 6:29 PM

Wait a min, Muslims NEVER violently invaded countries, okay maybe 1 or 2 but wallah the majority of countries became Muslim without a single Muslim soldier setting foot in it. Look at the demographies of all Muslim countries, the inhabitants stayed the same people, Muslim never wiped them out eg malaysia, indonesia african somalia etc unlike where-ever the crusaders went, they turned the land WHITE literally...

Islam does not need any of you but you need Islam to rescue you.

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:31 PM

Good points, remote_control, but I think that you attribute too much intelligence to the umma when you say that they are lulling unsuspecting Infidels about the real meanings of various verses and abrogation. I believe that it's the Muslims themselves who have been lulled into believing a lot of this stuff. After all, it is really very self-contradictory and confusing, and we usually aren't dealing out there in ummaville with erudite philologists. Now granted, there are a core of very smart people, like Zawahiri and Khameini etc, who do know the subtleties, but I think most of the faithful are like our local Servant of God here, unsuspecting victims in their own right.

Posted by: jewdog

at April 22, 2007 6:32 PM

Ms. Chaudhary is quoted above:

"The Prophet Mohammed was ... a role model for humanity,"

No he wasn't. He was, among other repulsive things, a racist and a slaveowner. See, for example, Bukhari hadith:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/089.sbt.html

"Volume 9, Book 89, Number 256:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

"Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.182

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 182:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

"Allah's Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah's Apostle said, "Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!"

Posted by: del

at April 22, 2007 6:38 PM

We civiliased the christians that its okay for religions to co-exist. Those proud Jews and christians you speak of were never harmed, they were given special recognition under Islam, as the people of the book

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:38 PM

Abdullah wrote:

“Islam protects society from fornication and exploiting women's sexuality, thus protects women.”

why does islam allow women to be stoned to death?

Posted by: xena the dog

at April 22, 2007 6:42 PM

Abdullah

"We civiliased the christians that its okay for religions to co-exist"

Hahahahahahahahaha!

Posted by: greatcometof1577

at April 22, 2007 6:43 PM

"But (kill her) only in a Muslim country, not in America" is coded Elbayly gobbleygook. Elbayly behaves like a mafia don who orders a murder in code knowing the feds are on the phone! This man makes a real life threat. Robert, you are an expert witness that his intent is that she be killed. His desire that she be killed is real and immediate. The Immam is hiding behind his code, but he clearly intends that she be killed. He is giving the order. He is denouncing her for death. This is no hypothetical conspiracy to murder. Van Gogh was murdered in Holland when someone heard their immam say something similiar. She is under death threat here now clearly. Let the immam explain to a court that he really is calling for her murder hypothetically. Let him explain to a court how he cannot be punished for this because it is a religious belief. She should swear out a warrant.

Posted by: David England

at April 22, 2007 6:46 PM

"Take for example this contradiction from the bible...Is Jesus equal to or lesser than God?
JOH 10:30I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

The referenced theological issues are kenosis and Athanasius' "subsistence within the same substance" but I'm sure you are too bigoted to explore such, being satisfied to find apparently binary contradictions where they don't in fact exist with proper exogesis.

"they were given special recognition under Islam, as the people of the book"

What a joke.

Maimonides

"The Arabs have persecuted us severely and passed baneful discriminatory legislation against us....Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they."

-quoted in Andrew Bostom's (2005) The Legacy of Jihad, p. 60; from Bat Ye'or's Dhimmi, p. 351.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen

at April 22, 2007 6:49 PM

You accuse Muhammad(peace be upon him) of copying the bible. Read the following and you ask yourself, did Allah's apostle need to copy such work???

Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I
Chronicles 21:5)

God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:50 PM

Abdullah, I would rather trust Ayaan Hirsi Ali than you. And for that matter, the bruhaha what she put on her asylum application was a bunch of s***. Rita Verdonk the immigration minister had to appear tough on asylum frauds so she exploited the Somali naming customs with regards to Hirsi Ali's grandfather. It killed two birds with one stone. It make Verdonk look like she was doing her job and it got rid of a hell-raiser. She still has Dutch citizenship even after that BS, thankfully. Those charges were only a tarbaby to smear her with.

I hope nothing like that happens to her while she's here. But 2008 does not look hopeful. I can tell you, a Democrat is going to win, and appeasement will go up twofold. Guess who's head will be offered up on a platter to the Islamists (I spit and fart in their general direction)

Posted by: wrathofasma

at April 22, 2007 6:51 PM

Abdullah writes…….
“Read this, this is what Islam gave humanity”
Another mindless Islamic parrot spewing hatefull garbage.
I only wish that Islam had given Humanity nothing .
ALAS, that is not the case.
Abdulla, we only need to read the newsparers or watch TV to see what Islam has given humanity.
Beheadings
Death fatwas
Hatred
And the list goes on.
Oh, Yes, Islams’ fitful murderous ideology has given humanity something.
A filthy sickening ideology dreamed up ba a thoroughly debauched criminal idiot.
Yes, yes Abdulla, we are SO SO grateful for these things Islam brings us.

Posted by: Freedom

at April 22, 2007 6:52 PM

We civiliased the christians that its okay for religions to co-exist. Those proud Jews and christians you speak of were never harmed, they were given special recognition under Islam, as the people of the book.

Yeah, prior to Islam, Christians were going around saying things like this:

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”

Thank goodness the Muslims taught them these verses out of the Koran/Hadith:

"Allah is not a god of disorder but of peace."

"Be at peace with each other"

"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and be holy"

Am I right Abdullah?

Posted by: Cheeky Human

at April 22, 2007 6:52 PM

Subhanallah, glory be to Allah, my lord, Im free of these made up lies added to Allah's previous book..... For more go to

http://www.islamway.com/english/images/library/contradictions.htm

Choose Islam, leave satan's worship or worshipping men like yourselves

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 6:54 PM

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

--------------------------------------------------------------

For a start this was before Jesus was put on the cross as the lamb, so when he rose he became equal again to the father. I don't need to go to websites for this, it's logic it's built in from faith and knowing where the Bible comes from in it's message.

The father at the time was greater than Jesus as he was not bound by the rules of being made into the flesh, if Jesus was greater than the father at that time how come he Died in the flesh? Jesus was speaking through the terms of spirit and healing by it as by faith people that touched him were healed, but he was limited in his flesh and the unwrapped future he was going to unlock for mankind. It was flesh from Adams Bloodline that were from the Jew's that was the key that opened Heaven back up for man and through the sinless lamb combined with Mary a woman the first sinner as a human.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb

at April 22, 2007 6:55 PM

Unlike Mohammad, Paul was truly inspired of God and the words he wrote were dictated to his spirit by the Spirit of God Himself. Mohammad was a bandit and nothing more, who invented a religion to justify his banditry.

As God said through the pen of Paul, who, though he never took the title, was a prophet in every sense of the word. (A title which Mohammad arrogantly and foolishly applied to himself even though God never gave him a single word of the Koran.)

"Therefore also God highly exalted Him (Jesus) and bestowed upon Him the name which is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2: 9-11)

You are very foolish to believe in Mohammad's words. One day you will see it and bow to the Son of God, either in love and reverence or in sheer terror but you will bow to Him.

As for Mohammad's reward, his end was foreseen by the Apostle John who was Christ's closest friend on earth. "And the false prophet who deceived them ... thrown into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone."

Posted by: IAmFree

at April 22, 2007 6:56 PM

Is this the religion you invite me to ?

Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)

(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)

How many fighting men were found in Judah?

(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)

(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I
Chronicles 21:5)

God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)

(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)

(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

Jesus descended from which son of David?

(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)

(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)

Whereas I invite you to (koran verses)

1. The believers must (eventually) win through,-

2. Those who humble themselves in their prayers;

3. Who avoid vain talk;

4. Who are active in deeds of charity;

5. Who abstain from sex,

6. Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

7. But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;-

8. Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;

9. And who (strictly) guard their prayers;-

10. These will be the heirs,

11. Who will inherit Paradise: they will dwell therein (for ever).

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 22, 2007 7:01 PM

The thought of a mediaeval throwback like Abdullah entering the British medical profession is more than a little disconcerting. Still,if enough of his co-religionists in this country share his attitudes then he is most likely to perish in the inevitable civil war to come - which should remove one small burden from the back of humanity.

Posted by: wallyUK

at April 22, 2007 7:06 PM

Hey, I can do that too!

Answer me this, Abdullah, all from the Koran:

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
2. "We created man
  from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape,
  (15:26).
3. "The similitude of
  Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him
  from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he
  was," (3:59).
4. "But does not man
  call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?"

"He has created
man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man)
becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Is there or is there
not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

"Let there be no
compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from
Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath
grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks.
And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

"And an announcement
from Allah and His Messenger, to the people
(assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that
Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with
the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but
if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah.
And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject
Faith," (9:3).

"But when the
forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the
Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them,
beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every
stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish
regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open
the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most
Merciful," (9:5).

Fight those who
believe not in Allah nor
the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been
forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge
the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the
People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with
willing submission, and feel themselves subdued,"
(9:29).

The first Muslim was
Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

"And I [Muhammad]
am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in
Islam," (39:12).

"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us,
and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show
(Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah
said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But
look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt
thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on
the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a
swoon. When he recovered his senses he said:
"Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I
am the first to believe." (7:143).

"And this was the
legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob;
"Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you;
then die not except in the Faith of Islam,"
(2:132).

Does Allah forgive or
not forgive those who worship false gods?

Allah forgiveth
not that partners should be set up with Him;
but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to
set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous
indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116

The people of the Book ask
thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven:
Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for
they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they
were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and
lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear
signs had come to them; even so we forgave them;
and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority,"
(4:153).

Are Allah's decrees changed
or not?

"Rejected were the
messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they
bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did
reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and
decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some
account of those messengers," (6:34).

"The word of thy Lord
doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None
can change His words: for He is the one who heareth
and knoweth all, (6:115).

None of Our
revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but
We substitute something better or similar:
Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all
things?" (2:106).

When We
substitute one revelation for another,-
and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they
say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them
understand not," (16:101).

Was Pharaoh killed or not
killed by drowning?

"We took the Children
of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts
followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when
overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe
that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of
Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in
Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a
little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou
didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We
save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those
who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind
are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).

Moses said, "Thou
knowest well that these things have been sent down by none
but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening
evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to
be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved
to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did
drown him and all who were with him,"
(17:102-103).

Is wine consumption
good or bad?

O ye who believe! Intoxicants
and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by)
arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork:
eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper,"
(5:90).

(Here is) a Parable of the
Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are
rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the
taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those
who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there
are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their
Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as
shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink,
boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to
pieces)?" (47:15).

Truly the Righteous
will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they
command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in
their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their
thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed,"

(83:22-25).

source

Posted by: Cheeky Human

at April 22, 2007 7:08 PM

"...Thus I am not forbidden in dealing kindly with non-muslims. Allah commands us to deal kindly with non-muslims, and not to insult your false gods. ISLAM GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT 1400 YEARS AGO when centuries latter you were persecuting the muslims..."

Really?

This is what your 'holy' book says:

The Qur'an commands Muslims not to befriend Jews or Christians:

"O ye who believe (Muslims) take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them." (Surat Al-Maidah 5:51)

It commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians:

"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Surah At-Taubah 9:29)

Jizyah is a special high tax to be paid only by Jews or Christians who do not want to renounce their religion and convert to Islam (this Qur'anic Law is still practiced today in much of the Muslim world).

"Jihad (holy fighting in allah's cause) is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not." (Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216)

You Lie Abdullah

Posted by: gawfer

at April 22, 2007 7:09 PM

The right buttons have been pressed, in the right order, on Abdullah wallah.

Please keep doing so!

Posted by: Dane

at April 22, 2007 7:10 PM

Making the covenant from the sinless flesh made by sacrifising on the cross which is made from wood as the tree of Knowledge from which the fall of man began is overcome by the perfect circle.

Jesus after the ressurection was one with the father but yet an individual, the Holy spirit is like a particle in the universe that inside will lead back to God, some are activated through faith in man. The Father is like the control room the knower of all and Jesus the Son is like the independent partical his clone. Jesus can be multiple he can be on earth and in heaven if he choses at the same time, the scroll handed over in Revelation 5 'The Scroll and the Lamb' is an example of Jesus of son of Mary handing in the paper work to Jesus who is also in Heaven, God being God he can multiply him self or appear in different realms at the same time.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb

at April 22, 2007 7:13 PM

jewdog,

I'd agree that the majority of Muslims are simply brainwashed with a simplistic Islamic supremacism, where their various cultures of intolerant and fanatical tribalism serves to cultivate receptivity and slavish obeisance; while I think there is a growing minority (growing perhaps chiefly through mutual pedagogy on the Internet) of Muslims who, although not "philologists" nor especially intelligent, have been learning a script that touts Islamic tolerance for the benefit of the Infidel audience through certain Koran citations while at the same time retaining the ulterior supremacy and imperialism of Islam through an unspoken familiarity with, and acquiescence to, the intolerant portions of the Koran and Hadiths.

Posted by: remote_control

at April 22, 2007 7:18 PM

Oh drat, I must have scared him off with all those Koranic contradictions.

Posted by: Cheeky Human

at April 22, 2007 7:28 PM

Abdullah

Is this the religion you invite me to ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again it's about not knowing the logic of it all.
These number readings were for one including drop out army numbers from one frame of time to another. One general counts the people and then says how many are fit for battle.

Pairs of what female and male does it matter if they were pairs of 5 animals that were male and another pair of 5 that were female of the same species?

The answers are there just use logic.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#102

Posted by: jesusisthelamb

at April 22, 2007 7:30 PM

Islam does not need any of you but you need Islam to rescue you.
Posted by: Abdullah

Abdullah, you never answered my questions, what are your parents nationality? are they from the land of the Sauds,arabia? or you one from the many that the
arab muslims killed off your ancestors? you say they did not use the sword to take over countries? you do not know your history, you parrot your arab master very well.
and your last statment is quite inaccurate, you see your muslims lands when they declare sharia, have become wastelands, and people cannot cope in that restrictive land, and leave as quickly as they can.
the numbers of muslims leaving muslim countries to western countries back up my claim.
why do not answer my questions? are you ashamed of your ancestors were not true blooded arabs? or ashamed that they are? which is it?

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 22, 2007 7:49 PM

Abdullah,
If Muslims don't need the rest of us, then why are you trying so hard?

Is THIS the religion you would invite us into:

"Allah willing, 'you will be victorious,' while America and Israel will be annihilated, Allah willing. I guarantee you that the power of belief and faith is greater than the power of America and Israel. They are cowards, as is said in the Book of Allah: 'You shall find them the people most eager to protect their lives.' They are cowards, who are eager for life, while we are EAGER FOR DEATH for the sake of Allah."

So go ahead and die! No one's stopping you. You'll be disappointed though, if you expect to get 72 virgins. Haven't you heard? That was a mistranslation. Instead of nubile virgins you will get 72 wrinkled dates (or raisins).

"America will be annihilated, while Islam will remain. The Muslims 'will be victorious, if you are believers.' Oh Muslims, I guarantee you that the power of Allah is greater than America, by whom many are blinded today. Some people are blinded by the power of America. We say to them that with the might of Allah, with the might of His Messenger, and with the power of Allah, we are stronger than America and Israel."

Me thinks the sheikh protests too much.

"Oh Allah... Kill Them All, Down to the Very Last One"

Now THAT'S a merciful god!!!!

"The Palestinian woman bids her son farewell, and says to him: 'Son, go and don't be a coward. Go, and fight the Jews.' He bids her farewell and carries out a martyrdom operation. What did this Palestinian woman say when she was asked for her opinion, after the martyrdom of her son? She said: 'My son is my own flesh and blood. I love my son, but my love for Allah and His Messenger is greater than my love for my son.' Yes, this is the message of the Palestinian woman, who was over 70 years old - Fatima Al-Najjar. She was over 70 years old, but she blew herself up for the sake of Allah, bringing down many criminal Zionists."

Too bad she no longer gets blood money from Saddam. That would have made her love Allah a whole lot more, I'd bet.

"Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one. Oh Allah, show them a day of darkness. Oh Allah, who sent down His Book, the mover of the clouds, who defeated the enemies of the Prophet - defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them."

Why does your god spend so much time worrying about earthly things? Why do you? Get to Allah.

Then again, some of us might miss you. Your comedy is priceless.

Posted by: PMK

at April 22, 2007 7:56 PM

Ms. Ali I commend her! Abdallah had one point in first post. This guy should be brought up on terrorist threats! Bingo! Humanity! Been thinking about that today! The boy who cut off that man's head! I prayed for him! Jesus is the second Humanity! Which is life-after death. Jesus gave us our own will. Which reflects in our character. If the humanity of Adam was to be made into the likeness of God, it needed the capacity to be filled with the Spirit of God. The personality of man needed the endowment of certain capabilities.

1. THE CAPACITY TO REASON
2. THE CAPACITY TO GROW IN WISDOM
3. THE ABILITY TO GUIDE ONE'S ACTIONS IN
ACCORDANCE WITH REASON AND CONSCIOUS
4. THE ABILITY TO LOVE
5. THE POSSESION OF FREE WILL

These are the needed elements in a person for the developemnt of a perfect personality. The basic constituent of the humanity of Adam and Jesus were the same. They both were free-will characters, the difference being that one chose to disobey and the other, out of love, chose to obey even to the mysterious death. The life of Jesus was the effulgence of the glory (Heb1:3) an exact expression of the Father's character. It was the human spirit of Jesus that made him human in the Image of the Father, and that spirit of Christ in us will make us vessels of honor in God's Image. A spirit of love for Christ within us will consent to His Will. 2PT1:3-4 1Jn3:12

Posted by: MZ

at April 22, 2007 8:21 PM

"Thus I am not forbidden in dealing kindly with non-muslims. Allah commands us to deal kindly with non-muslims, and not to insult your false gods. ISLAM GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT 1400 YEARS AGO when centuries latter you were persecuting the muslims"

Abdullah,

You'd better get right with Allah. If you're treating Infidels kindly when he specifically commandes you to kill them, you're in big trouble on judgement day.

You'd better arrive at judgment with a lot of blood on your hands if you expect to get your share of virgins.

Posted by: rational

at April 22, 2007 8:31 PM

Abdullah
Am convinced you are an agent provocateur.Come clean 'Alla Fella.'
Ms Ali is a splendidly courageous woman who should be able to live without death threats from
demented Muslims.'Religion of Peace & Tolerance'
huh! "I'll kill you if you don't say Islam is peaceful"- yes,right...

Posted by: Morgane

at April 22, 2007 8:31 PM

Correction it was Allahfanculo. Yes, lets get him on terrorist threats good idea! Wonder why they don't? Abdallah, take Ismail's advice you must get the evil spirits out of you! Jesus said if one leaves seven more come back with it stronger than the first.

Posted by: MZ

at April 22, 2007 8:37 PM

"Wait a min, Muslims NEVER violently invaded countries, okay maybe 1 or 2 but wallah the majority of countries became Muslim without a single Muslim soldier setting foot in it. "

You wait a minute there, abby (normal). In Europe--Spain, Italy, Greece and the Balkans BY THE SWORD until we politely asked you to leave.

Egypt, once populated by Egyptians, is now populated by arabs (aside from the tiny percentage of beleaguered Copts). The arabs of northern Sudan commit genocide against the other indiginous people, but they weren't native.

Iraq still has pockets of Assyrians but it is overwhelmingly arab--even the shi'ites of iraq are of arab descent. islam is no more than a clever (by 7th century standards) socio-political scheme reinforced by a cleverly (by 7th century standards) devised 'faith' that mandates unthinking obediance to whatever a fallible human SAYS is allah's will.

Methinks you've found a handy website from which you can cut and paste some of your 'historical' and biblical references.

Posted by: turn

at April 22, 2007 8:39 PM

I recommend you all to view Mel Brooks (very funny Jew) 1974 "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN" for my reference.

Posted by: turn

at April 22, 2007 8:43 PM

All this obsessing over converts and apostates by Muslims is yet more evidence (if we needed it) of their deep and fatal insecurity about Islam's place in the world. They focus on conversion because they know they cannot "win" by reasoning or by conciliatory, intelligent dialogue with civilizations of the West. They are at once hard-headed and soft-headed, not really a contradiction in this case.

Posted by: lycaste

at April 22, 2007 8:50 PM

here is a politicians who will clean up the muslim mess in the US, good laugh, comic relief for those
who are sick of hearing abudlah dodge my questions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Ac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Ac

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 22, 2007 8:51 PM

@ Abdullah,

Please do continue to "over-post". The pedagogical value, belied by your statements, validating your useful idiocy her at jihad watch, cannot be effectively measured.

I want to personally thank you. Your words, which I am certain you fully vest in, do more good for the cause to enlighten the non-Islamic masses to the inherent faults in Islam and the abject threat it poses to western societies.

In my reality, which I am sure many others share in a similar experience, you are truly a Godsend.

Abdulah wrote:
"I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith."

followed by...

Abdullah wrote:
"That is why I support non-violent means to give dawah to our fellow human beings (at the end of the day we all share the same father and mother)."

Contradictory? indeed. This is nothing new in the world of Muhammad's Allah story. That being said, I believe Marisol astutely pointed out the need to keep direct, lengthy exchanges with Abdullah to a minimim, for fear of bringing valuable threads off-topic.

Quite frankly, he has proven himself unworthy of gratuitous responses. He is merely a blind fool, fully encumbered by the shackles of Islamic slavery. As I have said about him previously, the word that comes to mind is...pity.

Posted by: awake

at April 22, 2007 8:51 PM

Abdullah

"Islam does not need any of you but you need Islam to rescue you."

But Abdullah it appear you do need us. You need our medicine to mend your sick. You need our engineering to fix your crappy roads and bridges. You need our weapons becuase you have inferior weapons. You need so much that your Allah does not provide you with. Why is that? Why does the followers of Allah lack these things? Poor Abdullah is worried about saving people when he himself is on a sinking boat.

Posted by: greatcometof1577

at April 22, 2007 9:01 PM

Yea right like some freakazoid "hero" won't try to kill here wherever they may find her.

He makes himself sound so intergrated into the wests way of life,doesn't he?Give that man a bigger welfare check for his "Americanness"

Yet he can come and go as he pleases as all laws benefit the criminals these days.

If she doesn't sue him then she is STUPID!!!!!!

If they do not arrest him then they are STUPID!!!!!

If they do not imprison him then they are JUST AS GUILTY AS HIM!!!!!

She should be the safest person in this country muslims and the Gov both should be held to account for her safety if they do nothing about islam.

Leaving disgusted

Posted by: Dar al-harb

at April 22, 2007 9:01 PM

Yea right like some freakazoid "hero" won't try to kill here wherever they may find her.

He makes himself sound so intergrated into the wests way of life,doesn't he?Give that man a bigger welfare check for his "Americanness"

Yet he can come and go as he pleases as all laws benefit the criminals these days.

If she doesn't sue him then she is STUPID!!!!!!

If they do not arrest him then they are STUPID!!!!!

If they do not imprison him then they are JUST AS GUILTY AS HIM!!!!!

She should be the safest person in this country muslims and the Gov both should be held to account for her safety if they do nothing about islam.

Leaving disgusted

Posted by: Dar al-harb

at April 22, 2007 9:01 PM

Of course Hersi should be put to death...the freakzoids have ordered it, and other freakzoids think its a great idea.

I tuned in just in time for another chapter in the never ending saga of Abdullah, the muslim wonder, who has not convinced one single poster of the merits of Islam. Thats because Islam has no merits , so all Abdullahs efforts are so much hot air.
Abdullah has not even established a factual case that Allah is God. He cant even establish that Allah is good...what has Allah done lately? Nothing...in fact Allah is about as lazy as he can get. He needs help with most everything. Four muslims are employed full time just to keep him (Allah) propped up. Allahs motto is 'I have fallen and I cant get up'.
He fell all right, or rather he was pushed. The real God has no patience with imposters like Allah, so God cast him out. Allah aint what he used to be, he is getting old and weak...he cant climb the 'Stairway to Heaven'. But he can take the elevator to Hell...load him in, push the button that says 'basement', and send him off...
Bye-bye...

Posted by: duh_swami

at April 22, 2007 9:08 PM

"I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith."

She is a convicted lier. She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!

Posted by: Abdullah

Good Grief do not tell me this guy just pointed out a liar or a fraud.

We don't acknowledge "islamic law" and this is why.

You idiots think you are so high and mighty.Do you realize i laugh very heartily at your idiocy?

Does the umma know that every day islam is on trial?The facts against it just keep piling up until BAAAAM....GUILTY......YOUR GONNERS.

Abdullah i suspect you yourself just may be a liar and i know islam is a fraud.So your execution is when?

I will bring the popcorn.

Posted by: Dar al-harb

at April 22, 2007 9:20 PM

Let's see if any of the rabble that we call "political leadership" in this country has guts enough to condemn this act of pure evil against Ayaan Hirsi Ali. We rightfully condemn racial slurs; lets see if our outrage will extend to ElBay's vicious comment--an attack on an independent mind from a pathetic dogmatist.

Posted by: MelM

at April 22, 2007 9:25 PM

Please...don't feed the trolls. We all know who they are.

Posted by: pismopal

at April 22, 2007 9:25 PM

I'm convinced that Mohammad was the first authentic Rap artist.

Both he and modern day rappers, using slightly different words, call Women Ho's and bone-heads.

Both promote slapping women around.

Both promote females as sexual objects, existing solely for the physical gratification of men.

Both glorify the a trashy lifestyle.

Both promote and glorify violence against others.

Both promote disrespect for legitimate authority.

Both corrupt the young, turning them into unthinking zombies.

It's to bad Mo didn't have the modern musical instruments available to Snoop Dog. He could have founded a Meccan school of hip-hop, using the Koran and Hadith for lyrics.

Posted by: rational

at April 22, 2007 9:26 PM

I'm so surprised that this far down the page I have yet to spot someone stating the obvious (I concede i may have missed it between the troll and his meals):

If she deserves to die because she has upset god (or God) then why does the imman blaspheme (equate himself with god) by passing judgement and sentance?

surely god can punish those that offend her.

having a somali woman make mr immam impotent, as his authority is questioned when islam is, seems to me a crappy excuse to want her killed and it is so depressing to hear the politically correct seek to protect mr imman's erection because they love to be "taken" by islam more than they love freedom.

the immam should buy some viagra and let his god do all the punishing she wants.

Posted by: exposesithlords

at April 22, 2007 9:41 PM

Where's the troll "American" who's just doing some thinking?

Perhaps he can't think of a way to spin this one.

Or perhaps, he's ... just doing some diddling.

Posted by: LoneRanger

at April 22, 2007 9:44 PM

Abdullah the problem you keep on failing to see is that the rest of us do not accept nor believe in allah.Therefore i fail to see how islam has any sway whatsoever.

If i am correct this woman left islam because it harmed her and the people she was around.She saw islam as a horrible "religion" with all the enslavement,rape and murder.You and all muslims hate her because she tells the truth.The truth we all know.

And as far as your "marriage" to islam idea don't you really mean the west can hand over all it's created and worked for to that of islam as is islams way because they do not earn anything themselves.

And if WE married islam then who would be king?How long would it be under the LAWS of islam before it would be justified for islam to gain total control?

You think we are fools when you are the fool.

You fail again abdullah and once again miserably.You can quote the koran all day long and it's just hooey to me.You see it as justification for your acts and i myself and those like me see it for thiers and my justifications.

When you quote your god or muhammad you are doing it for yourself not me and none like me.

I curse your god and muhammad and i do not fear a death sentence because i am infedel to the end.I have nothing to lose and yet all in the world to lose.That makes me ferocious amd my roar is louder than any fool "lion' you can find amongst your "heroes" and "martyrs" your brothers in murder,rape and pedophilia.

please though do go on the world IS watching and do remember islam is on trial.

I keep asking myself is there ever to come a day when islam will send it's men to the field to fight among men or will they continue to send thier women out among the weak and unsuspecting and proclaim a title so unworthy of them?

Posted by: Dar al-harb

at April 22, 2007 9:50 PM

It says in the Quaran he must die! Shoot him! umm every page says kill em!! cut his head off! The Book of Knowledge, what smart thinking, you don't have to do nothing!!! Just kill em!! easy to remember! This page is safe and holy it is blank! Thank Allah for that!

Posted by: MZ

at April 22, 2007 9:51 PM

Jesus: "Blessed are the peacemakers..."

Mohammad: "Strike at their necks!"

The Buddha: "Be compassionate."

Mohammad: "Terrorize them!"

Lao Tzu: "Mastering others is mere force; mastering yourself is true strength."

Mohammad: "Strike off their very fingertips!".

Pedophile, liar, thief, rapist, slaveholder, warlord, tyrant, anti-art crank and plagiarist.

What a "prophet".

Or, should I say, "loss"

Follow him... over the cliff.

Posted by: profitsbeard

at April 22, 2007 10:05 PM

Let's get this straight once-and-for-all; Islam is a brutal religion. No ideology that punishes blasphemy with coercion is "peaceful."

Posted by: MelM

at April 22, 2007 10:05 PM

Abdullah,

I checked that first link and I will give you two sand grains of credit for that general premise: Islam needs reformation.

That's it in a nutshell. You know that we do not heistate to completely destroy our enemies and you can judge the fate of Germany and Japan in the 1940s for yourself. Break them militarily and break the will of their people. I'm not forgetting the cucial role of the Russians- you are pissing them off, too. In those cases we felt acutely threatened and it was no "police action". Your lot are on the same path to anihilation as anyone can plainly see, and yet you refuse to denounce the leaders who are leading you there in Iran and other Islamic strongholds. It doesn't ever have to be about "religion" but people know what is happening. Reformation across and within all corners of the Umma is the only alternative and is something that no one can impose from without.

I am happy to hear you yourself say this (in effect). But do you really think anyone here would let down their guard, let alone join up (as you suggest often) before we see these changes instituted for a few generations at least? If so then you are the fool indeed.

I feel safe in saying that I seriously doubt anyone who posts here has the faintest belief that Islam will undergo any such reformation, even though some may secretly wish it might happen. Of course it would be a fine day when you and your fellow travelers could join us in true acceptance of others' religions and ways of life. Of equal or greater importance is that you can develop similar humanitarianism toward your fellow Mulsims, including women and others you currently hold in contempt or confinement, or both.

When you and your co-religionists have succeeded in this long overdue revolution, cleansing Islam of its historic brutality and totalitarianism and subduing those in your camp who would keep those primitive traditions alive, then we can talk with one another and not at each other.

Can you generate imams and scholars who will generate spiritual, non-militant interpretations of the Koran? Can more than a few of you living in the West even conceive of the separation of government from religion? This seems very doubtful but obviously your spiritual leaders hold the key. Can they make the transition from their blood-curdling hatred of Jews and lust for world dominance and other saturnalia before it is too late?

Do millions of Muslim men dying for the glory of Allah as a "martyrs" sound like a very successful formula to you, Abdullah?

Posted by: lycaste

at April 22, 2007 10:19 PM

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/living/books/s_503977.html

Posted by: KAOSKTRL

at April 22, 2007 10:50 PM

He never answers rationally. He answers as if his mind was as poisoned as his muscles would be by curare.

He buys it. Nothing we can say here will change his mind--it's a closed subject, He belongs to 'the greatest deceiver' and cannot witness Truth no matter how persuasive we are.

But it's always a choice. He has stubbornly decided to parrot his points rather than listen and debate. I feel no pity for his wilfull decision to be cast into the lake.

Posted by: turn

at April 22, 2007 11:36 PM

Oh boy! so many question, so many people to tend to as I said before I will only try my best to answer the 'normal' ppl...

Zennawarriorprincess: I have nothing to do with sauds or arabs in blood, I am half Somali and half English also got quarter Italian in my blood. My father died when I was 7, so my mother mainly brought me up...After muturity I became curious about my father's past, wow I tumbled across Islam, the best thing to happen to me.

The fella above quotes Quranic ayats to find conradictions but only in vain. Allah created matter out of "nothing" then from this matter (dust and clay) we grow food to eat, out of the food we have sperms (From a medical viewpoint this couldn't be a more perfect)

He also asks silly him, who was the first Muslim? Answer is Adam and Hawa were the first Muslims, who submitted to Allah. Among us I can say I am the first to bear witness in Allah but It does not falsify Adam testimony of being first Muslims...Nor does Moses' or muhammad's

Anyway gotta go sleep now....Guys remember to focus on the verses that deal with the ok non-muslims....the 'strike their fingers off' verses are those who fight the Muslims...So please be ok and dont encourage terrorism

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 23, 2007 12:23 AM

It's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it.

I don't have anything to say; just wanted to quote this quote is all, cuz I did try to understand it, and did come to understand it, and do understand it, but my capacity for mendacity is still subpar, by Islamic standards, that is.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer

at April 23, 2007 12:25 AM

See the Murder Cult HAS to put someone to the sword when they forsake the disease of Islam here & now because allah has no power to execute judgment after they die. That ability resides in YHWH and YHWH alone. Besides allah is going to end up in the bottomless pit for a thousand years after the King of kings and the Lord of lords returns on a white horse & strikes down the goat nations with the sword of His word.

Posted by: SoteriA

at April 23, 2007 12:31 AM

Abdulla is cutting and pasting from these sites -

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Sam24_9.htm

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/dawah/0009.htm

Abdulla's answers can be found in these sites if he cared to read (Of he didn't, why should a true Muslim look beyound his/her nose)-
http://www.thebereans.net/contra-reckon.shtml

Good night and God bless

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy

at April 23, 2007 12:32 AM

Does anyone know if this Pittsburgh Imam has been reported to the FBI or if they're aware of him? Insinuating a public death threat like this certainly seems like a crime to me.. I went to the Pittsburgh FBI website and there was no email address.

Posted by: Peaceful_Muslims?

at April 23, 2007 1:00 AM

ElBayly said

If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death.

Another case to be made, loudly. But who is going to make the case? Who has made any of the previous potential cases? Who is likely to make this case? The only answer is: continued silence.

Posted by: special_guest

at April 23, 2007 1:01 AM

i don't know.

i contacted the FBI anyway just to make sure they're aware of this Imam's death threat.....

This cannot stand in America.

Posted by: Peaceful_Muslims?

at April 23, 2007 1:08 AM

It's Abdullah's mother I feel sorry for. She probably thinks Mohammedanism is as big a load of bilge as any other Englishwoman.

Posted by: wallyUK

at April 23, 2007 1:15 AM

It is so sad nowadays to see how helpless Americans are against those Muslim clerics even when they openly threatened to kill innocent people. Americans should stand united against those cruel and inhumane Islamic teachings. Fight the bad guys and protect the good guys like Ayaan Hirsi Ali!
And don't be fooled by those Muslims saying Islam is peaceful. Peace only if you surrender to them, that is what peace meant to Muslims! It is high time we call a spade a spade!

Posted by: starmild

at April 23, 2007 1:26 AM

Hirsi found home at the heritage foundation; they adopted her there. The criteria: not much, talk trash about islam, and diss your people.
That my friends will give you strong credentials in America, and will elevate you to unbelievable status. you simply have to show your utter committement to show contempt to islam, muslims, and arabs and that will win you a tenure at the "think tank", a political contributor to the media, unlimited access to senior government officials, speaking fees,.........

Posted by: crusadertothecore

at April 23, 2007 1:29 AM

Or you can read the Queran! Hirsi was on tv and she is very educated more so than these dumb ass talks people Muslim BrotherHOODS,Cairs,Churchill,
all these people together cannot out smart her! She speaks the truth!
Problem is islamist,jihadist,muslims-not all,speak with hate no love, no nothing to look forward to! What happens to women when they die? Do they get 72 virgin men? Let's see what do women really want?

Posted by: MZ

at April 23, 2007 2:01 AM

Mohammad was merely a man -- an evil man who was a hatemonger, murderer and sexual pervert. He became delusional and decided he was a prophet of God; except the god he serves is not the One True God, but satan himself.

This is evidenced in the Qur'an, which is nothing more than a manual for murder and full of hate speech.

I am thankful for JW and for Robert Spencer, who is courageous enough to tell the Truth about Mohammad and this evil religion: Islam.

Why there are those who refuse to look at the Truth is beyond me; but if you are reading this message, then you are without excuse, because the Truth is here, right under your nose -- you only need to get out of your denial and read who Mohammad really was and what he stood for yourself.

Posted by: champ

at April 23, 2007 2:06 AM

Do you live in Pittsburgh or anywhere else in Pennsylvania?

Please call the offices of your representatives and senators and tell them, very concisely and precisely, what this imam said, and that you want your senator or representative to do something: write and sponsor a new bill, or take any other appropriate action that will put this imam in prison or heavily fine him.

Know this: one single, polite, intelligent call has enormous power, because politicians calculate that for every person who calls, there are, literally, one thousand other people who feel the same way but don't have time actually to make a call. It therefore takes some tiny number of calls to get politicians to start to move on an issue -- I believe Brigitte Gabriel once said only forty people need to call, or some such tiny number, because those forty calls represent 40,000 people. Call. This SOB's words murdering inciting words should not be allowed to stand.

Posted by: traeh

at April 23, 2007 3:01 AM

That my friends will give you strong credentials in America, and will elevate you to unbelievable status. you simply have to show your utter committement to show contempt to islam, muslims, and arabs and that will win you a tenure at the "think tank", a political contributor to the media, unlimited access to senior government officials, speaking fees,.........

Is that how people like Carl Ernst, Karen Armstrong and John Esposito get jobs? Posted by: Audacity

at April 23, 2007 3:05 AM

crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade
crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade crusade

OH! by the way, did I mention

"crusade"?

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA

at April 23, 2007 3:11 AM

The fella above quotes Quranic ayats to find conradictions but only in vain. Allah created matter out of "nothing" then from this matter (dust and clay) we grow food to eat, out of the food we have sperms (From a medical viewpoint this couldn't be a more perfect)

Except that your interpretation conveniently leaves out the organisms (such as humans) which would need to be created first in order to eat anything.

You may thrive on illogic, but Infidels don't.

Posted by: Audacity

at April 23, 2007 3:12 AM

To Pennsylvanians:

As I said in my comment just above, please call your legislators:

Your Senators:

Arlen Specter (R)
Ph (202) 224-4254 / Fx (202) 228-1229

Senator Robert P. Casey (D)
Ph 202-224-6324 / Fx 202-228-0604

Here's a web page with all the phone numbers of Pennsylvania representatives:
Penn Reps' Phone numbers

If you aren't sure who your representative is, go here:
Who is My Penn Rep?

Posted by: traeh

at April 23, 2007 3:21 AM

The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity.

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

So, those 800 beheadings at Banu Qurayza, just a big misunderstanding, right? 800 big misunderstandings. And selling all those young and newly fatherless Jewish girls into sex slavery, along with their mothers, that was the role model part.

But then again, the campfire the Holy Prophet had built on Kinana's chest, a first degree murder done for the cash, mind you, a murder-fire that burned until the blood of Kinana's chest cavity snuffed the flames, I ask you this:

What did Mohammed ever prophesy?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer

at April 23, 2007 3:55 AM

ElBayly isn't the first to slip up and publicly state the facts--and won't be the last.

How many remember this July '06 Letter to The Editor of the Lansing State Journal from a Kindergarten teacher at a Muslim Sunday School in East Lansing, Michigan?

Islam or death

I read Le Roy Barnett’s letter (“Muslims, speak up,” June 26) about Muslims’ opinion on Abdul Rahman’s conversion to Christianity.

Islam is not only a religion, it is a complete way of life. Islam guides Muslims from birth to grave. The Quran and prophet Muhammad’s words and practical application of Quran in life cannot be changed.

Islam is a guide for humanity, for all times, until the day of judgment. It is forbidden in Islam to convert to any other religion. The penalty is death. There is no disagreement about it.

Islam is being embraced by people of other faiths all the time. They should know they can embrace Islam, but cannot get out. This rule is not made by Muslims; it is the supreme law of God.

Please do not ask us Muslims to pick some rules and disregard other rules. Muslims are supposed to embrace Islam in its totality.

Nazra Quraishi
East Lansing

Posted by: PRCS

at April 23, 2007 4:34 AM

Ali should press charges.

In the UK a threat like that is a criminal offence.

She should sue.

-Stefcho

Posted by: Stefcho

at April 23, 2007 5:06 AM

Concerned Citizen, you are absolutely right. Yes, people should start suing these Imams and the mosques they represent. Let' face it, they have no qualms about using those tactics against those they want to silence. Do it all legally - sue them right out of this country. As for Europe, cut off the sweetheart benefits being handed out. Cash, or, lack thereof, speaks volumes.

Posted by: RIslander

at April 23, 2007 7:35 AM

Abdulah does it not hurt you that muslim arabs are killing black Africans in Dafur? and they have enslaved black Africans from the times before and still continue to enslave black Africans. you should open you eyes to the racism in islam, and see how you faire in the land of saud. if your white enough you can pass for an arab, but be careful if the think you are pretty, those saudi men love pretty boys.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 23, 2007 8:06 AM

In the U.K. inciting murder is a crime and is punishable by a jail term. What about the U.S.?

Posted by: The Resistance

at April 23, 2007 8:28 AM

To Abdullah:

Zeig Heil!

Nothing I can say more to a Hitler sympathizer...

Posted by: The Resistance

at April 23, 2007 8:30 AM

Relying on my criminal law experience ( former ADA), my opinion is that although ElBayly's words are despicable and hate-filled, what was said does not raise to the level of criminal conduct ( and no conspiracy- no other actor or identified co-conspirator). Since Hirsi Ali is a "public figure", where libel/slander standards are different from Joe Citizen and she is already under 24/7 guard with other death threats against her, other than for the annoyance factor, a lawsuit against ElBayly would probably be a waste of time.

Also,

Rislander says:

Concerned Citizen, you are absolutely right. Yes, people should start suing these Imams and the mosques they represent.

I wish that:

1. there was watchlist containing the identity of every Iman in every Mosque in the country so that he can be monitored regularly- sort of like an ImanWatch.org ;

2. The FBI ought to have a seperate "Iman Division.". There ought to be a national database accessible by anyone/everyone to asisst in monitoring these inciters of hate.

I am becoming more and more convinced that it is these local Imans and their Saudi backers who continually stir the pot of hatred. Sure, there are plenty of Abdullahs and Naseems to spread around, but it is the dormant moderate that is so difficult to monitor until he does something to show his true allegiance to Allah, like selling nucleur power plant software to Iran ( see Saturday's article ).

We know that Islam teaches hate and violence but will also know many Muslims who are "decent guys" ( see Roberts essay last week), neighbors and co-wrokers and who would otherwise be called "moderates". These "decent guys", these otherwise moderates, are stirred to action by the Iman ElBayly's across the nation.

I mean, did you ever meet or hear of a "moderate" Iman? Where are they?

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now

at April 23, 2007 8:45 AM

As far as I am aware it is not an offence in the UK to say:'Tony Blair ought to be hanged'. It is an offence to wave a noose and say:'Let's go to Downing Street and hang Tony Blair.' It would probably be an offence (or, at least, soon will be) to say:'That Christian, Tony Blair,ought to be hanged' as stirring up hatred of a religion may about be sneaked into British Law via the EU this week, making such action specifically illegal having been previously rejected by our parliament.

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=17526

Nobody, however,would bother to prosecute you for saying that. If you said: 'That Muslim, Lord Ahmed, ought to be hanged,' I'm sure you may well end up in a police cell.

If you read to the bottom of the link given, the writer seems to feel some regret that the rules may not be strong enough to prevent another event like the publishing of the Mohammed cartoons! Bizarrely,it will be a crime to deny the Holocaust and the Rwanda genocide but not the Armenian massacres!!!

Posted by: wallyUK

at April 23, 2007 8:54 AM

Zennwarior, you are right racism is not an arab speciality, it runs deep in all societies, look at 2oth century hitler...RACISM IS TAUGHT BY THE DEVIL, He was racist when commanded to bow to Adam, he refuse and said in arrogance to Allah,

..."Do you order me to bow myself before something you created out of (sounding) clay and you made me from (smokeless) fire?"

Yes I sometimes find racism within some quarters of the Muslims and it dismays me and I also find some racism on the english side also dismays me.

Let us all fight racism in all its ugly forms. I sometimes see myself as the right ambassador LOL

Hey you, the jews the Prophet killed were bad apples and gave Jews a bad name in Muslim's eyes. They betrayed the security trust of the Prophet at a serious time of an attack from the arab pagan.

Posted by: Abdullah

at April 23, 2007 10:17 AM

Yes I sometimes find racism within some quarters of the Muslims and it dismays me and I also find some racism on the english side also dismays me.

Abdullah, you continue to engage in a conversation that ended on September 11th, 2001. Please be quiet.

I am becoming more and more convinced that it is these local Imans and their Saudi backers who continually stir the pot of hatred.

And the funny thing is they think they are fooling us. We all know Saudis as well as the Iranians are to blame for this round of islamic jihad.

Indeed, it is islam in general that is to blame. That is why it is islam in general that must be stopped. Muslims in general must not be allowed to spread islam.

ROPMA

Posted by: mike trivisonno

at April 23, 2007 10:34 AM

Abdullah racism is an art form among muslims particularly arabs. you do find it in various forms all over the world, but at least in the WEst they are open about it, and do have laws against racism. you cannot know a person's heart, but you can make sure you have laws to protect people of all races, creeds, and sexuality. you do not see that islam has no spearation of church and states, how this creates too much power in the hands of the few clerics who no one to answer for?
please read the US constitution, it follows the Judea/Christians values. Look Abdullah, the Ten Commandments was sent by God to Moses, and your muhuammd chose to ignore it. muhammud even admitted he did not get word from a god, but from a separate entity, and from what came out of the koran, that entity was more like a demon.
Abudllah have you read the "Ten Commandments", why do you know just say these are all l need to live a good life for my God. muhammud was a decieved by some demon to destroy the use of the "Ten Commandments" sent by God to Moses. Jesus said that false prophets will follow him after he is gone, and l beleive him that is so with false prophet muhummad. you can ask your imman why he thinks the "Ten Commands" was discarded by your muhammud.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 23, 2007 11:16 AM

Islam will lose in the end.

Their mysticism and religious intolerance will be their undoing. Since the reformation, Christians and Jews have recognized that the universe is what it is ... that God, if he exists, does not use the universe to lie to us.

As a result, we had the Maxim Gun, effective rifles, repeating cannons, and steam powered ships, and they did not ... so we won.

Now, we have nukes and build effective delivery systems. They should be used now before the islamicists manage to find some whore who will sell to them the same.

Posted by: Kristopher

at April 23, 2007 11:26 AM

I am sure islam will be vanquished, its bunch-bundle non-sense, lie from the pit of hell,but for now its need people like abdullah to show its true nature and intent.
islam is demonic.and it will be defeated and all possessed by its demon like abdullah will be set free in JESUS name.
Amen.

Posted by: ismail

at April 23, 2007 12:01 PM

Interesting to note that Ayaan Hirsi Ally's speeches are selling out everywhere she goes. I recently tried to get tickets for her speech at Santa Clara University on April 19th in California but it was sold out.

http://www.scu.edu/visitors/speakerseries.cfm

Posted by: Mackie

at April 23, 2007 12:09 PM

No surprises here.

After all, Islam is the death cult par excellence.

Poor Ms. Ali!

Poor world!

Deliver us all from Islam!

Posted by: pythagoras

at April 23, 2007 1:19 PM

The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity.

Not to mention the 78 battles he took part in, during the last nine years of his life.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683

at April 23, 2007 1:29 PM

Abd of "allah",

A revisit of my above comment of April 22, 2007, 6:38 pm, which you seem to have missed. See above for citations from Bukhari ahadith:

The racism exhibited by your so-called prophet, known to history as "mohammed", should be eye-opening.

Contrary to the foolishness of Chaudhary, he (mohammed, the prophet of islam) was, and is, no role model for humanity.

If I were to refer to you, or other Aficans, as someone "whose head looks like a raisin", as mohammed did, or if I "had a black slave", as mohammed did, I would generally be regarded, by anyone of intelligence, as a racist. Let alone as not a role model.

Why does "mohammed" get a free pass?

Do you understand the meaning of cognitive dissonance?

Posted by: del

at April 23, 2007 1:41 PM

If ElBayly hac called Ayaan something a-kin to what Imus said, This story might getn some real traction.

There seems to be little new "News" in telling people you want someone dead. What's new about that?

Now calling them somethin headed somethin, somethin or other gets plastered all over the airways.

Posted by: flowerknife_us

at April 23, 2007 2:21 PM

flowerknife_us

The media could frame this threat as:

"EXTREMIST WHITE RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVE CALLS FOR DEATH OF BEAUTIFUL, GAY BLACK WOMAN!"

Use p.c. against p.c.

Posted by: profitsbeard

at April 23, 2007 2:58 PM

profitsbeard,

I think you confused Ayaan Hirsi Ali with Irshad Manji -- the latter is a lesbian, not the former.

Your counter-pc message would still be effective, especially if you substituted, for "gay" --

"EXTREMIST WHITE RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVE CALLS FOR DEATH OF BEAUTIFUL, ATHEIST BLACK WOMAN!"

Posted by: remote_control

at April 23, 2007 3:08 PM

Quote:
"Zahida Chaudhary insists that Islam is a peaceful religion"

He just forgot to say:
"If you say otherwise you will be beheaded"

"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity"

He also wed his 13 year old niece and was therefore a pedophile. Great rolemodel.

Want more?
And how many people follow his beliefs?
So i can safely say that Islam is the largest sadistic pedophile group (in denial even) that roams this earth.

So, come again, how many nukes did we have left unused?
Is there an expiration date on those? I don't like things go to waste, better use em...

For saying what i said above i would be killed by that "peacefull" religion.

Ayaan is a crazy loudmouthed girl from my country, but she's spot on the religion issue.

Posted by: akadexter

at April 23, 2007 3:47 PM

Thanks for posting the PA representatives... i also just wrote a letter to Arlen Specter on this issue..

It seems like there should be a concerted and orchestrated effort en masse by us concerned citizens to notify law enforcement authorities and our political representatives every time one of these Muslim-whack-jobs start spouting off about Sharia law, certainly when they're advocating violence!

Posted by: Peaceful_Muslims?

at April 23, 2007 3:53 PM

akaDexter-

Mohammad "married" Aisha when she was 6 years old, and then took her to bed when she was 9.

(13 years old was Jerry Lee "Great Balls Of Fire" Lewis's child bride's age ...which almost seems moderate compared to the perversity of the Messenger of Allah.)

Posted by: profitsbeard

at April 23, 2007 4:50 PM

Abby, don't worry about things you don't understand. islam was made for the stupid folks - like you.

islam - revenge of the nerds.

Posted by: Allahfanculo

at April 23, 2007 5:27 PM

"'If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death,' said ElBayly, who came to the U.S. from Egypt in 1976."
-- from the article above

1) Ayaan Hirsi Ali did not "come into the faith." She was "born into it" through no fault of her own. She made no conscious decision to accept it. It was imposed on her, and on all those born into Islam.

2) The expression of such sentiments by El Bayly dis-entitles him to remain in this country. If he is not a citizen, deportation proceeding should be promptly instituted. If he is a citizen, he should be stripped of his citizenship and then deported. Clearly he is not a member of the American polity and cannot be, but he can threaten the lives of those who are, can work toward the destruction of American legal and political institutions. He should be removed from this country.

3) Can't do it, you reply? Why not? If the appropriate legislation is not there, then have it drafted and passed. And use this example as a good one of the kind of behavior such legislation is intended to prevent or to punish.

Clearly Islam presents unprecedent problems for law-writers. But so what? Unprecedented problems are encountered all the time, and it is the duty of those who claim to be able to protect us to take these unprecedented problems into account, and deal with them.

Posted by: Hugh

at April 23, 2007 7:31 PM

Hugh l am sure many as l do share you sentiments about having laws to deport this monster. l only hope it does not take a death of an individual to make this happen.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess

at April 23, 2007 8:01 PM

Abdullah

Hey...Yoo-Hoo ..
I do understand that you being a Muslim, have been brain sucked..but try to use the noodle you have left...do a bible study, maybe, just maybe, you'll get it. But then again..the blind lead the blind and both fall into the pit:(

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search.html

Subhanallah, glory be to Allah, my lord, Im free of these made up lies added to Allah's previous book..... For more go to

http://www.islamway.com/english/images/library/contradictions.htm

Choose Islam, leave satan's worship or worshipping men like yourselves

Posted by: Abdullah

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA

at April 23, 2007 9:51 PM