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But only in a Muslim country, not in America, and "it's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it."
A "community debate" in Pennsylvania: "Furor over author Ayaan Hirsi Ali's visit stirs debate on religious freedom," by Robin Acton in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, with thanks to Joe:
...A community debate over religious freedom surfaced in Western Pennsylvania last week when Dutch feminist author Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who has lived under the threat of death for denouncing her Muslim upbringing, made an appearance at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown.Islamic leaders tried to block the lecture, which was sponsored through an endowment from the Frank J. and Sylvia T. Pasquerilla Lecture Series. They argued that Hirsi Ali's attacks against the Muslim faith in her book, "Infidel," and movie, "Submission," are "poisonous and unjustified" and create dissension in their community.
Although university officials listened to Islamic leaders' concerns, the lecture planned last year took place Tuesday evening under tight security, with no incidents.
Imam Fouad ElBayly, president of the Johnstown Islamic Center, was among those who objected to Hirsi Ali's appearance.
"She has been identified as one who has defamed the faith. If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death," said ElBayly, who came to the U.S. from Egypt in 1976.
Hirsi Ali, an atheist, has been critical of many Muslim beliefs, particularly on subjects of sexual morality, the treatment of women and female genital mutilation. In her essay "The Caged Virgin," she also wrote of punishment, noting that "a Muslim's relationship with God is one of fear."
"Our God demands total submission. He rewards you if you follow His rules meticulously. He punishes you cruelly if you break His rules, both on earth, with illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire," she wrote....
Although ElBayly believes a death sentence is warranted for Hirsi Ali, he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime should be punished. Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added.
"If it is found that a person is mentally unstable, or a child or disabled, there should be no punishment," he said. "It's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it."
Zahida Chaudhary, a member of the education council and education secretary at the Muslim Community Center of Greater Pittsburgh in Monroeville, insisted that Islam is a peaceful religion.
"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity," she said. "My understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice. He tried to teach people and bring them into it, not punish them."
In fact, he said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him'" (Bukhari 9.84.57).
Posted by Robert at April 22, 2007 2:44 PM
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The cultured Ayaan Hirsi Ali lives under protection. The primitive Fouad ElBayly probably has none, but retains the respect generally afforded clergyman. Meanwhile, Zahida Chaudhary plays the Song of Happy Islamic Tolerance. He's worse, whether or not he understands himself to be talking goofy nonsense.
We are letting wolves in. The ruling elite is to blame.
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at April 22, 2007 3:18 PM
So who's more likely to get investigated by the FBI, ElBayly or Hirsi Ali? My guess is the latter. Sooner or later those that protect her will let her down and she'll have to leave even THIS country, like she left the Netherlands.
Posted by: wrathofasma at April 22, 2007 3:25 PM
"Our God demands total submission. He rewards you if you follow His rules meticulously. He punishes you cruelly if you break His rules, both on earth, with illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire," she wrote....
That's interesting... Jesus forgives your sins, and Allah wants you to, "meticulously" follow his rules, that no one can completely follow, since we are all sinners...
Cheers,
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at April 22, 2007 3:26 PM
"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity,"
Peacemaker! ROFLMAO, how many military raids and wars this peacemaker did? How many millions been put under the blade in his very name, following his direct example.
Role model for humanity, No! Only for people having a hard time finding their way to humanity, exemplified by a long list of failed nation, which worship, guess who?
Posted by: TBH_1 at April 22, 2007 3:29 PM
h illness and natural disasters, and in the hereafter, with hellfire," she wrote....
it seems the muslims are punished by their own god!
hell with a god like who needs the devil! oh in islam they are one in the same..
at April 22, 2007 3:33 PM
I am DYING to know if any of this is being printed in the Pittsburgh newspapers. Anyone from Pittsburgh?
Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 22, 2007 3:37 PM
In cutting to the chase, let us define exactly what American Islam is in being a caste system.
I have seen enough of the solemn thug males lurking around Mosques flexing power in tiny enclaves deciding what is and what is not in America.
I have seen the peaceful solitude of Islamic women in the scarf hiding from a world they are afraid to step out into and calling it religion.
I have seen the gleaming eyes of young girls enraptured in "being Muslim" like a right of female passage.
Each and every one of the above thinks they control the world and outsiders are nothing as Americans are not allowed in.
This caste though is making huge mistakes in trouncing everyone in their thug Islam male or female.
They also in their giggles of power have forgotten the one measure of Islam. Middle Eastern Muslims think their Islam is thee Islam and Americans have been warned to flee or become fodder.
ElBayly might be on the perch calling out death today, but the day is coming when the real hawk of prey is going to stick his nuclear talons into all American Muslims. His name is bin Laden with his featherling Islamocommunist Zawahiri.
The Muslim Brotherhood of Keith Ellison might think like ElBayly they are in charge, but their death will be at the hands of the bigger buzzard of al Qaeda.
What comes around goes around Muslims and your time will come at the hands of those you seek to protect now.
at April 22, 2007 3:38 PM
"She has been identified as one who has defamed the faith. If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death," said ElBayly, who came to the U.S. from Egypt in 1976.
If this guy really said that and it can be proven in a court of Law that he did.. He should be indicted.
Who is *he* to sentence people to death in this country?
What he did could be viewed as a viloation of Ms. Ali's Civil Rights for starters.
Then we have "making a terrorist threat".
And last not least sedition for handing our legfal sentences without authority do do so.
In light of how violent these moslems get the words of their "clergy" have to be taken in context of the likely to be expected actions of their followers.
These comments are not being made in a vacuum.
at April 22, 2007 3:40 PM
This imam should be booted out of the country for threatening Ms. Ali, despite the fact that he couched his threat in roundabout terms. It's the imam who should be deported to stand trial for being a dangerous moron. We shoudn't tolerate this sort of garbage.
Hirsi Ali is a brilliant and beautiful woman who epitomizes everything good in a person.
at April 22, 2007 3:42 PM
See...
She is doing her job!
Nothing and I mean nothing can bring a Imam out his shell like Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Come you can't beat this quote:
"She has been identified as one who has defamed the faith. If you come into the faith, you must abide by the laws, and when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death," said ElBayly
No matter what you think of her liberal world view dam she is good...
That is why they pay her the big bucks!
at April 22, 2007 3:44 PM
I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith.
She is a convicted lier. She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 3:47 PM
"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity," she said. "My understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice. He tried to teach people and bring them into it, not punish them."
Umm... which Prophet Mohammed is she thinking of??
at April 22, 2007 3:49 PM
Abdullah
You are a convicted troll...
You know what the means for ye!
Posted by: greatcometof1577 at April 22, 2007 3:49 PM
Thanks, Abdullah, for providing us with yet another example of Islam's wonderful tolerance, in the unlikely event that we needed another one on this thread.
Posted by: materialguy at April 22, 2007 3:54 PM
Zahida Chaudhary is the "education secretary" at the Muslim Community Center of Greater Pittsburgh, and her "understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice". If what Robert posts- "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" is in fact text in the koran, do that many Muslims not know the koran, especially an "education secretary"?
Will CAIR remain silent on the rantings of this imam in America, or comment on this, so as to promote better understanding?
Good to see the hit counter at JW approaching 10 million.
Posted by: JBarsimson at April 22, 2007 3:54 PM
Irshad Manji, another Islamic dissident but also a devout believer, says that according to Mohammad,
"the blood of the scholar is worth more than the blood of the martyr".
So where are the Muslim scholars?
Are these brave women the only ones who will stand up to the barbarities of Islam?
I'm also not sure exactly how to interpret those words. Mohammad says the blood of the scholar, not the life of the scholar. Are the scholars to be killed first (as happens in many revolutions) or are their lives more valuable than those of the martyrs?
Posted by: PMK at April 22, 2007 4:02 PM
at this point, can we direct the FBI's attention to the poster Abdullah?
so many who are streaming into this country honestly support the imams over hirsi ali. such people are allowed to live here, allowed to have children, allowed to teach. they walk unmolested.
they have their apologists, too. the crowd who says, "islam is misunderstood" or "the problem is fundamentalism of any kind" or "islam is a religion, protected by the first amendment."
Posted by: StillBreathing at April 22, 2007 4:05 PM
regarding Mad Mo being for "peace":
Karl Marx defined peace as "the absence of opposition to socialism"
Similarly, to the Islamic mind, peace can only come when Islam dominates the world. So a psychotic murderer and rapist, in the Islamic mind, can truly be for "peace" if he works toward Islamic domination.
As Abdullah keeps demonstrating on this forum, there can be no peace with Islam, by the Western definition. There can be no co-existance with Islam.
Posted by: PapaBear at April 22, 2007 4:09 PM
I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith.
THAT is why you and your ilk don;t belong among civilized people in civilized nations.
q.e.d.
She is a convicted lier. She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!
Posted by: Abdullah
don't even start with that one. The whole thing was a sham because she was speaking out and she was upsetting the apple cart.
Let's start by examining very closely the asylum applications of moslems world-wide, shall we?
I have yet to hear one moslem explain to me why they like to stay in our countries whose people they hate.
I am not holding my breath.
If the moslems would go back to their countries then we'd have peace - at least in the West.
Posted by: Allahfanculo at April 22, 2007 4:10 PM
"The Prophet Mohammed was a peacemaker and a role model for humanity," she said. "My understanding is that he was a peaceful person who believed that religion was a choice. He tried to teach people and bring them into it, not punish them."
I've never been able to make up my mind as to whether these Muslim clerics are flat-out liars, or, if somewhere along the way, the ability to think rationally has been obliterated from their consciousness.
They seem to move effortlessly from contridiction to contridiction, and to ignore the most obvious evidence, in defending the indefensible in their religion.
In one sentence they tell us that "he (Mohammad)He tried to teach people and bring them into it (Islam) , not punish them." or that "let there be no compulsion in religion" is the governing doctrine of Islam concerning freedom of religion.
In the next sentence, and with the greatest of ease, without any thought of contridiction, they mandate death for anyone who converts from Islam or defames Islam or the Prophet.
All done without blinking an eye or betraying the slightest hint of embarrasment.
Could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness?
There has to be some explanation.
at April 22, 2007 4:13 PM
Why do we let these crazies into the country? Bann the Cowran in the US for good.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 4:17 PM
I just want to make a quick distinction between Johnstown and Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a large city. Johnstown is a very traditional, socially conservative Appalachian town well outside the metro area. There are probably all of about 5-10 moonbats in the Johnstown area. This Imam can't count on the blinkered brigade to back him up.
He should learn to lie better, like his big city sister Zahida Chaudhary, or he might get himself in some trouble.
Posted by: Jan Sobieski at April 22, 2007 4:24 PM
Could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness?
Posted by: rational at April 22, 2007 04:13 PM
LOL!!!
I am amazed that this mental state exist only amongst Muslims - they are all Mohamadized. That is a serious mental illness. They are perpetual liars. No wonder they hate life and they hate this world, because they are Mohamadized. I wonder who put 'Mad' in MohaMad's name.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 4:38 PM
What these women seek is attension and loadz of the cash straight out of the infidel pockets, truely their songs are music to the ears of the Islamophobe and their words a comfort to the hearts of every wicked disbeliever!!!
I feel sorry for these women, they have departed the party of Allah for the party of the shytaan, indeed the party of the losers!! Alhamdulillah more and more people are leaving shytaan's party in droves for Islam, I can already think of 3 reverts this week alone.
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 4:39 PM
"Although ElBayly believes a death sentence is warranted for Hirsi Ali"
Sounds like incitement to murder to me
"he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime"
it is not a crime in America.
"should be punished."
Can be punished. Free speech is protected here.
"Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added."
Well, let's see, did she commit the alleged "crime" in another country which has an extradition treaty with America that covers such "crimes"? Good luck on that one, El-Boy.
On the other hand, Elbow has stated Ayaan Hirsi Ali has committed a fictitious crime worthy of a real death sentence. Now THAT sounds like slander to me. Imagine the damage to her reputation that has been done, and her a professional writer and speaker at that. One could probably attribute lost revenue from honoraria from universities which might otherwise have had her speak. Especially if any organization campaigned inappropriately to have her censored based on such.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 4:40 PM
"Why do we let these crazies into the country? Bann the Cowran in the US for good."
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 04:17 PM
That could get you a death sentence in the U.S. now days.
at April 22, 2007 4:40 PM
Mr. Spencer, if you know Ms. Hirsi Ali, she should be immediately advised to go to the police department in Pittsburgh and fill out a complaint against Mr. ElBayly. Mr. ElBayly by his speech has committed the crime of conspiring to commit murder contrary to the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. This is not like Holland. A complaint should immediately be filed. Mr. ElBayly should be arrested to conspiring to commit murder. If she fills out a criminal information, ElBayly is likely to be arrested.
Jihad Watch needs its own civil defense cases. We should all help her if she needs a legal fund. Also, by registering her legitimate complaint it will further draw attention to the vile threats made by these vermin against her. We need to protect her.
Threats of murder are going to become more common as people try to educate Americans about the dangers of Islam.
at April 22, 2007 4:41 PM
". . .when you decide to defame it deliberately, the sentence is death . . ."
Only in America can a Mohammedan say this and get away with it. Imagine Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell saying something similar. The calls for their hides would ring all the way from MSNBC to The Los Angeles Times.
The fundamental jihadists will not hear this part: ". . . he stressed that America is not the jurisdiction where such a crime should be punished. Instead, Hirsi Ali should be judged in a Muslim country after being given a trial, he added." They will hear the first part and maybe act on it. ElBayly needs to be deported yesterday.
Posted by: Pelayo at April 22, 2007 4:42 PM
That is why I support non-violent means to give dawah to our fellow human beings (at the end of the day we all share the same father and mother). Im sure you guys know why our parents are evicted out of 'adan. They fell for shytaan's whispers and forgot their lord. They fell.
We risk falling even further into the pits of hell fire If make the same mistake. Let us rectify the mess Ibliss got us into and ascend upwards back to Jannah instead of descending to hell...
Laugh all you want, oneday you won't be laughing
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 4:46 PM
"I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law...."
Posted by: Abdullah
Leaving aside the argument that there is no "Islamic Law" in Britain, could you be more clear, Abdullah? Are you saying you will kill her? Do you have a sword? Do you intend to use it?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 4:47 PM
That could get you a death sentence in the U.S. now days.
Posted by: rational at April 22, 2007 04:40 PM
NA!! Get out of here. Not in my neck of the woods. I am not scared of the nitwits.
I am working on a case that Cowran is an evil script incites people who follow it to hate others.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 4:48 PM
"Laugh all you want, oneday you won't be laughing"
Posted by: Abdullah
Is that a threat, Abdullah?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 4:48 PM
"Mr. Spencer, if you know Ms. Hirsi Ali, she should be immediately advised to go to the police department in Pittsburgh and fill out a complaint against Mr. ElBayly. Mr. ElBayly by his speech has committed the crime of conspiring to commit murder contrary to the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. This is not like Holland. A complaint should immediately be filed. Mr. ElBayly should be arrested to conspiring to commit murder. If she fills out a criminal information, ElBayly is likely to be arrested."
this is the the best comment so far. she really needs to press charges. can you persuade her to do this robert? please.
or could i press charges on her behalf? what's the law regarding this? i would willingly call the FBI right now, can someone please, if they know the law, respond to my request. thanks!
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at April 22, 2007 4:50 PM
Another article, same author, same paper, similar subject:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_503268.html
Etta Albright, a member of the Altoona chapter of the national Peace Alliance, said she was "saddened" by what she called the negative impact and threat Hirsi Ali's appearance presented to the Islamic community.Posted by: kamala"I sympathize with the Muslim community's concerns on what kind of inflammatory impact this could have on the community," she said.
at April 22, 2007 4:53 PM
I am not threatening anybody. I hate to be threatened, so why would I threaten others? Putting touchy feelings aside, Justice is Justice. The woman has committed an injustice against God, and for that she should be put on trial as the imam said in a Muslim country.
The other point I was making is I personally think If like me, the west married Islam, we will be the best people set forth for mankind, Islam together with our sense of uprightness. I am not calling for Naseem's 50/50 version.
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 4:57 PM
Johnstown Islamic Center, huh? Sounds like a
target rich environment to me.
Zahida Chaudahry is a liar. Old Mo was a murderer,
liar, pedophile, rapist, and thief. Worshipping him
through his sock puppet Allah is just sick. But
there is no shortage of sick people.
at April 22, 2007 5:00 PM
"The woman has committed an injustice against God, and for that she should be put on trial as the imam said in a Muslim country."
That's not how justice works, or how extradition works. She didn't the "crime" in a country where it is illegal, so it is not a crime. Are you advocating kidnapping her and rendering her to a Muslim country?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 5:01 PM
Abdullah, you sound like a bored 14-year old Jew somewhere in Teaneck who was told by his mom, "no more prank calls."
Posted by: kamala at April 22, 2007 5:02 PM
Abdullah, you are victim of the satanic death demonic force, that took over mohammed's mind, now i see that its taken over your mind too. how sad.you simply need delivarance.
Posted by: ismail at April 22, 2007 5:02 PM
Abdullah, If only Mohammedans are in heaven, I'd rather be with my friends. I am not saying this for the sick humor value; I really mean it.
I say this knowing full well that I am not damned for believing that Islam is a sham invented by the grandaddy of all grifters.
I also like the part of Islam that does not allow prayers for infidels. I would be insulted if I thought that some Mohammedan was praying to Allah and used my name, even if it is my TypeKey nickname.
Posted by: Pelayo at April 22, 2007 5:03 PM
"The woman has committed an injustice against God, and for that she should be put on trial as the imam said in a Muslim country."
Maybe they could try her in abstentia and she could give testimony by video link?
Abdullah, perhaps you could point us toward the exact statues of jurisprudence where a municipality can convict or even try someone of a "crime" committed outside its jurisdiction.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 5:04 PM
The other point I was making is I personally think If like me, the west married Islam, we will be the best people set forth for mankind..
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 04:57 PM
Abdullah, what exactly that you people smoke and dream up with absurd ideas? Whatever it is, its fogging your brain out completely.
Can you care name lets say two good things for the mankind that came out of Islamic countries (notice plural)?
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 5:08 PM
True, some of you will never revert to the religion of your fore-father like Ibrahim(peace be upon him). You will die the death of ignorance, in darkness your soul will be torn out of your body be angels
1. By the (angels) who tear out (the souls of the wicked) with violence;
2. By those who gently draw out (the souls of the blessed);
3. And by those who glide along (on errands of mercy),
4. Then press forward as in a race,
5. Then arrange to do (the Commands of their Lord),
6. One Day everything that can be in commotion will be in violent commotion,
7. Followed by oft-repeated (commotions):
8. Hearts that Day will be in agitation;
9. Cast down will be (their owners') eyes.
I am sure some of you might well become Muslim in the future, how many haters became lovers
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 5:09 PM
hello house, that imam must be held accountable for his words, we must take him to court.he must explain his words.i am willing to send funds.please people this is our chance to start to do something.let use the law to talk to this madness.
Robert please advice.i am just sick of this madness. i understand if this happen in my country(nigeria) we have learnt to leave with this islamic madness.
at April 22, 2007 5:10 PM
Come on, Abdullah, answer the question
Are you advocating kidnapping her and rendering her to a Muslim country?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 5:14 PM
(Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends (and ally) with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are wrong-doers.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)
at April 22, 2007 5:14 PM
NOOOOOO I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT BECAUSE WE MUSLIMS RESPECT THE SOVEREIGHTY OF KUFFAR NATIONS UNLIKE THE KUFFAR THEY DONT RESPECT US
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 5:15 PM
We must not tolerate statements by creatures such as Fouad "Fraud" ElBayly in the US. He must be deported as soon as possible; preferably, he would be coated in tar with a layer of feathers and tied to a fence rail (figuratively, of course).
Posted by: Pelayo at April 22, 2007 5:18 PM
abdullah, islam is satan worhip, and i was one and i know for a fact. you are possessed by a demon and you need help.you have gone too deep, you have lost your mind, so calling for someones death don't mean a thing to you.
i am not going to mince words at all "you are of your father satan"
your heart is hardened with hate.and trully islam is to blame.
you can talk smart talk all you want, you are already basking in madness and insanity.
at April 22, 2007 5:18 PM
Abdullah posted: She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!
Most of the Muslims in the UK are either illegals or have lied on their application forms. Lying to the Kuffar is a requirement for Muslims.
Posted by: DP111 at April 22, 2007 5:19 PM
I agree that we should corner ElBayly ASAP and try everthing do-able to send him back packing.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 5:19 PM
pelayo, i say we get this started i will to join others in funding legal stuff.this man must be held accountable for his words
Posted by: ismail at April 22, 2007 5:20 PM
Islam did not come to break the ties between human beings, to spread hatred and enmity, or to encourage bloodshed. Nor did it come to eliminate the freedom of choice in this life, which is secured by God. Indeed, even Satan was granted the freedom to choose between obeying and disobeying his Lord, he misused this gift and chose to disobey.
Read this, this is what Islam gave humanity
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/asim_siddiqui/2006/04/freedom_of_conscience_in_islam.html
at April 22, 2007 5:20 PM
Islam frees the human being from being prisoner in shytan's web of worshipping the created and turn him/her to the worship of the unseen God in the sky, the creator. In this sense Islam frees the mind from tempation to fascism like the Nazis and materialism, atheism which is the father of all evil ideologies. Islam protects society from fornication and exploiting women's sexuality, thus protects women.
Silly you lol I never applied to come to England.
Always remember this verse about Islam
(Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends (and ally) with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are wrong-doers.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)-alquran
Posted by: Abdullah
at April 22, 2007 5:27 PM
"NOOOOOO I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT BECAUSE WE MUSLIMS RESPECT THE SOVEREIGHTY [sic] OF KUFFAR NATIONS UNLIKE THE KUFFAR THEY DONT RESPECT US"
Posted by: Abdullah
Really? Well, it's not a crime here. So respect the sovereignty of the kuffar nations and don't be seen to be grazing too close to the kuffar "pasture" of crimes of slander, incitement to murder, and incitement to kidnapping.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 22, 2007 5:27 PM
Abdulla is getting irritated on this thread. Wuts-up Abdulla, are you making plans to meet 72 virgins, not getting any of it on this planet, right?
Abdulla, get a real life and live it, forget about Satanism. There are no virgins waiting for you, its only the dudes, so called your brothers, waiting to take 'CARE' of your wife ;) on this paradise. Smarten-up a bit, read some real books. Cowran is a cut and bad-pasting of very old Jewish and Christian scripts.
Mohd. was a mad man, once you understand that you will live in peace and happily.
Just GO FOR THAT!
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 5:28 PM
Thus I am not forbidden in dealing kindly with non-muslims. Allah commands us to deal kindly with non-muslims, and not to insult your false gods. ISLAM GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT 1400 YEARS AGO when centuries latter you were persecuting the muslims
at April 22, 2007 5:30 PM
Abdulla, what exactly is original in Cowran that has not been written thosuands years before it?
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2007 5:34 PM
Islam did not come to break the ties between human beings, to spread hatred and enmity, or to encourage bloodshed. Nor did it come to eliminate the freedom of choice in this life, which is secured by God
Umm... which Islam is he talking about??
Oh, right, it's the toned down one they pull out when talking to the infidels.
Posted by: Cheeky Human at April 22, 2007 5:50 PM
The idea of actually killing someone who decides to leave a religion probably was a feature of prehistoric faiths, way before people figured out that live and let live was socially constructive.
This imam probably moonlights as a character actor for Geico.
at April 22, 2007 5:50 PM
Abby (normal) wrote:
"I feel sorry for these women, they have departed the party of Allah for the party of the shytaan..."
Let me get this straight. Shaitan (or however you wish to spell it) is the name of the 'great deceiver' and variants of it exist in many present and past religions.
So when the quran says "allah is the greatest deceiver" then what--allah is just better at fooling his people than satan?
__________________
Rational commented:
"Could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness?
There has to be some explanation."
Your problem is that you're trying to apply rationality to what is inherently irrational. This'll just give you headaches.
So unless you wish to devote a large portion of your life to the study of circular reasoning, solypsistic argument, and magical thinking you're wasting a lot of good thinking.
Don't reinvent the wheel. Prior to Psychiatry's switchover to medication therapy in the late '60s, the above were highly studied and written about.
Or put another way, "could this be some yet undiagnosed mental illness"?
Nope. Get any 'slammi on an old-fashioned shrink's couch and you'll have quite an accurate diagnosis.
Posted by: turn at April 22, 2007 5:56 PM
Mushuntcowboy, you and your religion, christianity, are in no position to redicule Islam. Islam came to renew what came before it with all the prophets, really Islam was sent to rectify your pollution of God's message.
Take for example this contradiction from the bible...Is Jesus equal to or lesser than God?
JOH 10:30I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 6:00 PM
The problem with Abdullah's citation of Koran 60:8-9 as a paramount verse of Islamic tolerance is that the key phrase
-- ALLAH only forbids you [from allying yourselves in friendship with] those who have fought against you on account of your religion and have driven you out of your homes, and have helped others in driving you out --
is that throughout history, Muslims have defined "those who have fought against you" in very elastic terms: e.g., if a Muslim leader feels the need to expand the Islamic Lebensraum by "inviting" the people of Egypt in the 7th century to revert to Islam and when they then refuse, then that Muslim leader sets about to offensively conquer Egypt through military means and the people of Egypt resist -- then those people of Egypt are in fact defined as "fighting against the Muslims" and as dispossessing the Muslims from their rightful territory (just as Hitler used the same logic when expanding Germany's territory through military attacks on lands he defined as belonging truly to the German Master Race -- which eventually would be the entire Earth if he had had his way): and therefore, Abdullah's pet verse stands and is not contradicted: it is only cleverly massaged into flexibility through a semantic loophole.
And, wheresoever Koranic verses are not amenable to semantic loopholes, there is always the mechanism of the "abrogating" ayat (nashkh), whereby the later more militant suras of the Qur'an (e.g., 2, 8 and 9) -- after Mohammed was in a stronger position in Medina and didn't therefore have to pretend to be compliant with his stronger enemies -- override or abrogate the earlier more tolerant verses.
Meanwhile, when Muslims recede into weaker positions again, Muslims like Abdullah can pretend that the concept of abrogation does not exist or that verses 60:8-9 absolutely prohibit offensive military jihad even when offensive is camouflaged as "defensive" -- in order to lull the Infidels into complacency about the ulterior motives of Islam.
Posted by: remote_control at April 22, 2007 6:01 PM
For my father is greater than I says Jesus, unless he was mentally disturbed, he is clearly speaking of someone else...right? How can he claim God and he are one and yet say actually God is greater than I??? PAGANS NEVER WIN
at April 22, 2007 6:03 PM
Oh, good one, abby (normal).
If you take a cup to the sea and fill it with the seawater are the contents of that cup not 'one' with the ocean from which it was temporarily drawn?
But of course, the Ocean is greater than the Cup.
Don't even TRY to use NT arguments here--there are too many who understand the concept of the Three in One.
Posted by: turn at April 22, 2007 6:05 PM
Or when you say he was the son of God, do you mean he was the biological son of God? I am confused with this confusing religion corrupted by paul.
If you say NO, then was Jesus same as you and I, in that we were all created by God?
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 6:05 PM
Jesus was God made Man. That is to say that because God is infinite and could only be revealed to a select few in the OT for mere moments because of His overwhelming Presence, Jesus then, was the embodiment of God in Man so that He could live and walk among us, sharing the Love that can bring anyone to the Kingdom of God.
Posted by: turn at April 22, 2007 6:14 PM
hey Abdullah you talk about respecting Kafir lands,
do you know enough history? when mulims expanded outside of land of the Sauds arabia, those lands they siezed where not muslim lands, they were kaffir, ie iran,
iraq, North AFrica, those lands were not muslim, they were taken over by the muslim sword, muslim went into India with the sword, and you have the pak,
all these lands were not muslim. so if properly they should be taken back by those descendents of those ancestors killed and forced to convert to islam.
those proud Christians, and Jews who paid the tax and survived can also demand back taxes paid to muslim nations. the muslims need to be driven back to their tents in the deserts of Sauds arabia country.
so Abdullah what is your parents nationality? are they from the land of Saud? if they were not from the line of Saud, you owe your ancestors revenge for the killings and murder by the arab muslims overlords.
Abdullah do really know your history? or are you a sponge from the land of the Sauds? Do you now
work and kill for the your Saudi masters?
at April 22, 2007 6:21 PM
Abdulla..
Please consider volunteering for the next space shot to the Moon or better yet, Mars..both look sandy, rocky, devoid of water and here's the REAL DEAL ABDULLAH..just get the Koreans to clone your DNA and you don't even need females to sully your heavenly next place for yourself and like minded (billion 1/2 at last count) males (women count 1/4th)...just you ABDULLAH,, you could be the next L. Ron Hubbard of Scientology (Islam)on two new planets
Posted by: nodak at April 22, 2007 6:21 PM
"If it is found that a person is mentally unstable, or a child or disabled, there should be no punishment," he (ElBayly) said. "It's a very merciful religion if you try to understand it."
That's good news for ElBayly.
at April 22, 2007 6:29 PM
Wait a min, Muslims NEVER violently invaded countries, okay maybe 1 or 2 but wallah the majority of countries became Muslim without a single Muslim soldier setting foot in it. Look at the demographies of all Muslim countries, the inhabitants stayed the same people, Muslim never wiped them out eg malaysia, indonesia african somalia etc unlike where-ever the crusaders went, they turned the land WHITE literally...
Islam does not need any of you but you need Islam to rescue you.
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 6:31 PM
Good points, remote_control, but I think that you attribute too much intelligence to the umma when you say that they are lulling unsuspecting Infidels about the real meanings of various verses and abrogation. I believe that it's the Muslims themselves who have been lulled into believing a lot of this stuff. After all, it is really very self-contradictory and confusing, and we usually aren't dealing out there in ummaville with erudite philologists. Now granted, there are a core of very smart people, like Zawahiri and Khameini etc, who do know the subtleties, but I think most of the faithful are like our local Servant of God here, unsuspecting victims in their own right.
Posted by: jewdog at April 22, 2007 6:32 PM
Ms. Chaudhary is quoted above:
"The Prophet Mohammed was ... a role model for humanity,"
No he wasn't. He was, among other repulsive things, a racist and a slaveowner. See, for example, Bukhari hadith:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/089.sbt.html
"Volume 9, Book 89, Number 256:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
"Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.182
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 182:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
"Allah's Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah's Apostle said, "Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!"
at April 22, 2007 6:38 PM
We civiliased the christians that its okay for religions to co-exist. Those proud Jews and christians you speak of were never harmed, they were given special recognition under Islam, as the people of the book
at April 22, 2007 6:38 PM
Abdullah wrote:
“Islam protects society from fornication and exploiting women's sexuality, thus protects women.”
why does islam allow women to be stoned to death?
at April 22, 2007 6:42 PM
Abdullah
"We civiliased the christians that its okay for religions to co-exist"
Hahahahahahahahaha!
at April 22, 2007 6:43 PM
"But (kill her) only in a Muslim country, not in America" is coded Elbayly gobbleygook. Elbayly behaves like a mafia don who orders a murder in code knowing the feds are on the phone! This man makes a real life threat. Robert, you are an expert witness that his intent is that she be killed. His desire that she be killed is real and immediate. The Immam is hiding behind his code, but he clearly intends that she be killed. He is giving the order. He is denouncing her for death. This is no hypothetical conspiracy to murder. Van Gogh was murdered in Holland when someone heard their immam say something similiar. She is under death threat here now clearly. Let the immam explain to a court that he really is calling for her murder hypothetically. Let him explain to a court how he cannot be punished for this because it is a religious belief. She should swear out a warrant.
at April 22, 2007 6:46 PM
"Take for example this contradiction from the bible...Is Jesus equal to or lesser than God?
JOH 10:30I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
The referenced theological issues are kenosis and Athanasius' "subsistence within the same substance" but I'm sure you are too bigoted to explore such, being satisfied to find apparently binary contradictions where they don't in fact exist with proper exogesis.
"they were given special recognition under Islam, as the people of the book"
What a joke.
Maimonides
"The Arabs have persecuted us severely and passed baneful discriminatory legislation against us....Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they."
-quoted in Andrew Bostom's (2005) The Legacy of Jihad, p. 60; from Bat Ye'or's Dhimmi, p. 351.
at April 22, 2007 6:49 PM
You accuse Muhammad(peace be upon him) of copying the bible. Read the following and you ask yourself, did Allah's apostle need to copy such work???
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)
How many fighting men were found in Judah?
(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I
Chronicles 21:5)
God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)
Jesus descended from which son of David?
(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)
(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)
at April 22, 2007 6:50 PM
Abdullah, I would rather trust Ayaan Hirsi Ali than you. And for that matter, the bruhaha what she put on her asylum application was a bunch of s***. Rita Verdonk the immigration minister had to appear tough on asylum frauds so she exploited the Somali naming customs with regards to Hirsi Ali's grandfather. It killed two birds with one stone. It make Verdonk look like she was doing her job and it got rid of a hell-raiser. She still has Dutch citizenship even after that BS, thankfully. Those charges were only a tarbaby to smear her with.
I hope nothing like that happens to her while she's here. But 2008 does not look hopeful. I can tell you, a Democrat is going to win, and appeasement will go up twofold. Guess who's head will be offered up on a platter to the Islamists (I spit and fart in their general direction)
Posted by: wrathofasma at April 22, 2007 6:51 PM
Abdullah writes…….
“Read this, this is what Islam gave humanity”
Another mindless Islamic parrot spewing hatefull garbage.
I only wish that Islam had given Humanity nothing .
ALAS, that is not the case.
Abdulla, we only need to read the newsparers or watch TV to see what Islam has given humanity.
Beheadings
Death fatwas
Hatred
And the list goes on.
Oh, Yes, Islams’ fitful murderous ideology has given humanity something.
A filthy sickening ideology dreamed up ba a thoroughly debauched criminal idiot.
Yes, yes Abdulla, we are SO SO grateful for these things Islam brings us.
at April 22, 2007 6:52 PM
We civiliased the christians that its okay for religions to co-exist. Those proud Jews and christians you speak of were never harmed, they were given special recognition under Islam, as the people of the book.
Yeah, prior to Islam, Christians were going around saying things like this:
“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”
“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”
“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”
Thank goodness the Muslims taught them these verses out of the Koran/Hadith:
"Allah is not a god of disorder but of peace."
"Be at peace with each other"
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and be holy"
Am I right Abdullah?
at April 22, 2007 6:52 PM
Subhanallah, glory be to Allah, my lord, Im free of these made up lies added to Allah's previous book..... For more go to
http://www.islamway.com/english/images/library/contradictions.htm
Choose Islam, leave satan's worship or worshipping men like yourselves
Posted by: Abdullah at April 22, 2007 6:54 PM
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
--------------------------------------------------------------
For a start this was before Jesus was put on the cross as the lamb, so when he rose he became equal again to the father. I don't need to go to websites for this, it's logic it's built in from faith and knowing where the Bible comes from in it's message.
The father at the time was greater than Jesus as he was not bound by the rules of being made into the flesh, if Jesus was greater than the father at that time how come he Died in the flesh? Jesus was speaking through the terms of spirit and healing by it as by faith people that touched him were healed, but he was limited in his flesh and the unwrapped future he was going to unlock for mankind. It was flesh from Adams Bloodline that were from the Jew's that was the key that opened Heaven back up for man and through the sinless lamb combined with Mary a woman the first sinner as a human.
Posted by: jesusisthelamb at April 22, 2007 6:55 PM
Unlike Mohammad, Paul was truly inspired of God and the words he wrote were dictated to his spirit by the Spirit of God Himself. Mohammad was a bandit and nothing more, who invented a religion to justify his banditry.
As God said through the pen of Paul, who, though he never took the title, was a prophet in every sense of the word. (A title which Mohammad arrogantly and foolishly applied to himself even though God never gave him a single word of the Koran.)
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him (Jesus) and bestowed upon Him the name which is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Philippians 2: 9-11)
You are very foolish to believe in Mohammad's words. One day you will see it and bow to the Son of God, either in love and reverence or in sheer terror but you will bow to Him.
As for Mohammad's reward, his end was foreseen by the Apostle John who was Christ's closest friend on earth. "And the false prophet who deceived them ... thrown into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone."
Posted by: IAmFree at April 22, 2007 6:56 PM
Is this the religion you invite me to ?
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
(a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
(b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)
In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?
(a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5)
How many fighting men were found in Judah?
(a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
(b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I
Chronicles 21:5)
God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
(a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
(b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
(a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
(b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?
(a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
(b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)
Jesus descended from which son of David?
(a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6)
(b) Nathan(Luke3:31)
Whereas I invite you to (koran verses)
1. The believers must (eventually) win through,-
2. Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
3. Who avoid vain talk;
4. Who are active in deeds of charity;
5. Who abstain from sex,
6. Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
7. But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;-
8. Those who faithfully observe their trusts and their covenants;
9. And who (strictly) guard their prayers;-
10. These will be the heirs,
11. Who will inherit Paradise: they will dwell therein (for ever).
at April 22, 2007 7:01 PM
The thought of a mediaeval throwback like Abdullah entering the British medical profession is more than a little disconcerting. Still,if enough of his co-religionists in this country share his attitudes then he is most likely to perish in the inevitable civil war to come - which should remove one small burden from the back of humanity.
Posted by: wallyUK at April 22, 2007 7:06 PM
Hey, I can do that too!
Answer me this, Abdullah, all from the Koran:
(19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
(83:22-25).
at April 22, 2007 7:08 PM
"...Thus I am not forbidden in dealing kindly with non-muslims. Allah commands us to deal kindly with non-muslims, and not to insult your false gods. ISLAM GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT 1400 YEARS AGO when centuries latter you were persecuting the muslims..."
Really?
This is what your 'holy' book says:
The Qur'an commands Muslims not to befriend Jews or Christians:
"O ye who believe (Muslims) take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them." (Surat Al-Maidah 5:51)
It commands Muslims to fight Jews and Christians:
"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Mohammed) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." (Surah At-Taubah 9:29)
Jizyah is a special high tax to be paid only by Jews or Christians who do not want to renounce their religion and convert to Islam (this Qur'anic Law is still practiced today in much of the Muslim world).
"Jihad (holy fighting in allah's cause) is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not." (Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216)
You Lie Abdullah
at April 22, 2007 7:09 PM
The right buttons have been pressed, in the right order, on Abdullah wallah.
Please keep doing so!
Posted by: Dane at April 22, 2007 7:10 PM
Making the covenant from the sinless flesh made by sacrifising on the cross which is made from wood as the tree of Knowledge from which the fall of man began is overcome by the perfect circle.
Jesus after the ressurection was one with the father but yet an individual, the Holy spirit is like a particle in the universe that inside will lead back to God, some are activated through faith in man. The Father is like the control room the knower of all and Jesus the Son is like the independent partical his clone. Jesus can be multiple he can be on earth and in heaven if he choses at the same time, the scroll handed over in Revelation 5 'The Scroll and the Lamb' is an example of Jesus of son of Mary handing in the paper work to Jesus who is also in Heaven, God being God he can multiply him self or appear in different realms at the same time.
Posted by: jesusisthelamb at April 22, 2007 7:13 PM
jewdog,
I'd agree that the majority of Muslims are simply brainwashed with a simplistic Islamic supremacism, where their various cultures of intolerant and fanatical tribalism serves to cultivate receptivity and slavish obeisance; while I think there is a growing minority (growing perhaps chiefly through mutual pedagogy on the Internet) of Muslims who, although not "philologists" nor especially intelligent, have been learning a script that touts Islamic tolerance for the benefit of the Infidel audience through certain Koran citations while at the same time retaining the ulterior supremacy and imperialism of Islam through an unspoken familiarity with, and acquiescence to, the intolerant portions of the Koran and Hadiths.
at April 22, 2007 7:18 PM
Oh drat, I must have scared him off with all those Koranic contradictions.
at April 22, 2007 7:28 PM
Abdullah
Is this the religion you invite me to ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again it's about not knowing the logic of it all.
These number readings were for one including drop out army numbers from one frame of time to another. One general counts the people and then says how many are fit for battle.
Pairs of what female and male does it matter if they were pairs of 5 animals that were male and another pair of 5 that were female of the same species?
The answers are there just use logic.
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#102
at April 22, 2007 7:30 PM
Islam does not need any of you but you need Islam to rescue you.
Posted by: Abdullah
Abdullah, you never answered my questions, what are your parents nationality? are they from the land of the Sauds,arabia? or you one from the many that the
arab muslims killed off your ancestors? you say they did not use the sword to take over countries? you do not know your history, you parrot your arab master very well.
and your last statment is quite inaccurate, you see your muslims lands when they declare sharia, have become wastelands, and people cannot cope in that restrictive land, and leave as quickly as they can.
the numbers of muslims leaving muslim countries to western countries back up my claim.
why do not answer my questions? are you ashamed of your ancestors were not true blooded arabs? or ashamed that they are? which is it?
at April 22, 2007 7:49 PM
Abdullah,
If Muslims don't need the rest of us, then why are you trying so hard?
Is THIS the religion you would invite us into:
"Allah willing, 'you will be victorious,' while America and Israel will be annihilated, Allah willing. I guarantee you that the power of belief and faith is greater than the power of America and Israel. They are cowards, as is said in the Book of Allah: 'You shall find them the people most eager to protect their lives.' They are cowards, who are eager for life, while we are EAGER FOR DEATH for the sake of Allah."
So go ahead and die! No one's stopping you. You'll be disappointed though, if you expect to get 72 virgins. Haven't you heard? That was a mistranslation. Instead of nubile virgins you will get 72 wrinkled dates (or raisins).
"America will be annihilated, while Islam will remain. The Muslims 'will be victorious, if you are believers.' Oh Muslims, I guarantee you that the power of Allah is greater than America, by whom many are blinded today. Some people are blinded by the power of America. We say to them that with the might of Allah, with the might of His Messenger, and with the power of Allah, we are stronger than America and Israel."
Me thinks the sheikh protests too much.
"Oh Allah... Kill Them All, Down to the Very Last One"
Now THAT'S a merciful god!!!!
"The Palestinian woman bids her son farewell, and says to him: 'Son, go and don't be a coward. Go, and fight the Jews.' He bids her farewell and carries out a martyrdom operation. What did this Palestinian woman say when she was asked for her opinion, after the martyrdom of her son? She said: 'My son is my own flesh and blood. I love my son, but my love for Allah and His Messenger is greater than my love for my son.' Yes, this is the message of the Palestinian woman, who was over 70 years old - Fatima Al-Najjar. She was over 70 years old, but she blew herself up for the sake of Allah, bringing down many criminal Zionists."
Too bad she no longer gets blood money from Saddam. That would have made her love Allah a whole lot more, I'd bet.
"Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one. Oh Allah, show them a day of darkness. Oh Allah, who sent down His Book, the mover of the clouds, who defeated the enemies of the Prophet - defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them."
Why does your god spend so much time worrying about earthly things? Why do you? Get to Allah.
Then again, some of us might miss you. Your comedy is priceless.
Posted by: PMK at April 22, 2007 7:56 PM
Ms. Ali I commend her! Abdallah had one point in first post. This guy should be brought up on terrorist threats! Bingo! Humanity! Been thinking about that today! The boy who cut off that man's head! I prayed for him! Jesus is the second Humanity! Which is life-after death. Jesus gave us our own will. Which reflects in our character. If the humanity of Adam was to be made into the likeness of God, it needed the capacity to be filled with the Spirit of God. The personality of man needed the endowment of certain capabilities.
1. THE CAPACITY TO REASON
2. THE CAPACITY TO GROW IN WISDOM
3. THE ABILITY TO GUIDE ONE'S ACTIONS IN
ACCORDANCE WITH REASON AND CONSCIOUS
4. THE ABILITY TO LOVE
5. THE POSSESION OF FREE WILL
These are the needed elements in a person for the developemnt of a perfect personality. The basic constituent of the humanity of Adam and Jesus were the same. They both were free-will characters, the difference being that one chose to disobey and the other, out of love, chose to obey even to the mysterious death. The life of Jesus was the effulgence of the glory (Heb1:3) an exact expression of the Father's character. It was the human spirit of Jesus that made him human in the Image of the Father, and that spirit of Christ in us will make us vessels of honor in God's Image. A spirit of love for Christ within us will consent to His Will. 2PT1:3-4 1Jn3:12
Posted by: MZ at April 22, 2007 8:21 PM
"Thus I am not forbidden in dealing kindly with non-muslims. Allah commands us to deal kindly with non-muslims, and not to insult your false gods. ISLAM GAVE YOU THIS RIGHT 1400 YEARS AGO when centuries latter you were persecuting the muslims"
Abdullah,
You'd better get right with Allah. If you're treating Infidels kindly when he specifically commandes you to kill them, you're in big trouble on judgement day.
You'd better arrive at judgment with a lot of blood on your hands if you expect to get your share of virgins.
at April 22, 2007 8:31 PM
Abdullah
Am convinced you are an agent provocateur.Come clean 'Alla Fella.'
Ms Ali is a splendidly courageous woman who should be able to live without death threats from
demented Muslims.'Religion of Peace & Tolerance'
huh! "I'll kill you if you don't say Islam is peaceful"- yes,right...
at April 22, 2007 8:31 PM
Correction it was Allahfanculo. Yes, lets get him on terrorist threats good idea! Wonder why they don't? Abdallah, take Ismail's advice you must get the evil spirits out of you! Jesus said if one leaves seven more come back with it stronger than the first.
Posted by: MZ at April 22, 2007 8:37 PM
"Wait a min, Muslims NEVER violently invaded countries, okay maybe 1 or 2 but wallah the majority of countries became Muslim without a single Muslim soldier setting foot in it. "
You wait a minute there, abby (normal). In Europe--Spain, Italy, Greece and the Balkans BY THE SWORD until we politely asked you to leave.
Egypt, once populated by Egyptians, is now populated by arabs (aside from the tiny percentage of beleaguered Copts). The arabs of northern Sudan commit genocide against the other indiginous people, but they weren't native.
Iraq still has pockets of Assyrians but it is overwhelmingly arab--even the shi'ites of iraq are of arab descent. islam is no more than a clever (by 7th century standards) socio-political scheme reinforced by a cleverly (by 7th century standards) devised 'faith' that mandates unthinking obediance to whatever a fallible human SAYS is allah's will.
Methinks you've found a handy website from which you can cut and paste some of your 'historical' and biblical references.
Posted by: turn at April 22, 2007 8:39 PM
I recommend you all to view Mel Brooks (very funny Jew) 1974 "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN" for my reference.
Posted by: turn at April 22, 2007 8:43 PM
All this obsessing over converts and apostates by Muslims is yet more evidence (if we needed it) of their deep and fatal insecurity about Islam's place in the world. They focus on conversion because they know they cannot "win" by reasoning or by conciliatory, intelligent dialogue with civilizations of the West. They are at once hard-headed and soft-headed, not really a contradiction in this case.
Posted by: lycaste at April 22, 2007 8:50 PM
here is a politicians who will clean up the muslim mess in the US, good laugh, comic relief for those
who are sick of hearing abudlah dodge my questions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Achttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Ac
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at April 22, 2007 8:51 PM
@ Abdullah,
Please do continue to "over-post". The pedagogical value, belied by your statements, validating your useful idiocy her at jihad watch, cannot be effectively measured.
I want to personally thank you. Your words, which I am certain you fully vest in, do more good for the cause to enlighten the non-Islamic masses to the inherent faults in Islam and the abject threat it poses to western societies.
In my reality, which I am sure many others share in a similar experience, you are truly a Godsend.
Abdulah wrote:
"I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith."
followed by...
Abdullah wrote:
"That is why I support non-violent means to give dawah to our fellow human beings (at the end of the day we all share the same father and mother)."
Contradictory? indeed. This is nothing new in the world of Muhammad's Allah story. That being said, I believe Marisol astutely pointed out the need to keep direct, lengthy exchanges with Abdullah to a minimim, for fear of bringing valuable threads off-topic.
Quite frankly, he has proven himself unworthy of gratuitous responses. He is merely a blind fool, fully encumbered by the shackles of Islamic slavery. As I have said about him previously, the word that comes to mind is...pity.
at April 22, 2007 8:51 PM
Abdullah
"Islam does not need any of you but you need Islam to rescue you."
But Abdullah it appear you do need us. You need our medicine to mend your sick. You need our engineering to fix your crappy roads and bridges. You need our weapons becuase you have inferior weapons. You need so much that your Allah does not provide you with. Why is that? Why does the followers of Allah lack these things? Poor Abdullah is worried about saving people when he himself is on a sinking boat.
at April 22, 2007 9:01 PM
Yea right like some freakazoid "hero" won't try to kill here wherever they may find her.
He makes himself sound so intergrated into the wests way of life,doesn't he?Give that man a bigger welfare check for his "Americanness"
Yet he can come and go as he pleases as all laws benefit the criminals these days.
If she doesn't sue him then she is STUPID!!!!!!
If they do not arrest him then they are STUPID!!!!!
If they do not imprison him then they are JUST AS GUILTY AS HIM!!!!!
She should be the safest person in this country muslims and the Gov both should be held to account for her safety if they do nothing about islam.
Leaving disgusted
Posted by: Dar al-harb at April 22, 2007 9:01 PM
Yea right like some freakazoid "hero" won't try to kill here wherever they may find her.
He makes himself sound so intergrated into the wests way of life,doesn't he?Give that man a bigger welfare check for his "Americanness"
Yet he can come and go as he pleases as all laws benefit the criminals these days.
If she doesn't sue him then she is STUPID!!!!!!
If they do not arrest him then they are STUPID!!!!!
If they do not imprison him then they are JUST AS GUILTY AS HIM!!!!!
She should be the safest person in this country muslims and the Gov both should be held to account for her safety if they do nothing about islam.
Leaving disgusted
Posted by: Dar al-harb at April 22, 2007 9:01 PM
Of course Hersi should be put to death...the freakzoids have ordered it, and other freakzoids think its a great idea.
I tuned in just in time for another chapter in the never ending saga of Abdullah, the muslim wonder, who has not convinced one single poster of the merits of Islam. Thats because Islam has no merits , so all Abdullahs efforts are so much hot air.
Abdullah has not even established a factual case that Allah is God. He cant even establish that Allah is good...what has Allah done lately? Nothing...in fact Allah is about as lazy as he can get. He needs help with most everything. Four muslims are employed full time just to keep him (Allah) propped up. Allahs motto is 'I have fallen and I cant get up'.
He fell all right, or rather he was pushed. The real God has no patience with imposters like Allah, so God cast him out. Allah aint what he used to be, he is getting old and weak...he cant climb the 'Stairway to Heaven'. But he can take the elevator to Hell...load him in, push the button that says 'basement', and send him off...
Bye-bye...
at April 22, 2007 9:08 PM
"I agree with the Imam's statement. She should be put to the sword according to Islamic Law, because there is no faith after leaving faith."
She is a convicted lier. She lied in her application for asylum in the Netherlands. A fraudster more likely!!!
Posted by: Abdullah
Good Grief do not tell me this guy just pointed out a liar or a fraud.
We don't acknowledge "islamic law" and this is why.
You idiots think you are so high and mighty.Do you realize i laugh very heartily at your idiocy?
Does the umma know that every day islam is on trial?The facts against it just keep piling up until BAAAAM....GUILTY......YOUR GONNERS.
Abdullah i suspect you yourself just may be a liar and i know islam is a fraud.So your execution is when?
I will bring the popcorn.
Posted by: Dar al-harb at April 22, 2007 9:20 PM
Let's see if any of the rabble that we call "political leadership" in this country has guts enough to condemn this act of pure evil against Ayaan Hirsi Ali. We rightfully condemn racial slurs; lets see if our outrage will extend to ElBay's vicious comm
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