"ousted"?
From imam to...?...what?
Armory supervisor? (ooops, I meant mosque attendant)
Window dressing...plain and simple.

Posted by: jcom972 at May 10, 2007 8:25 PM

Im convinced let him stay or perhaps become the whitehouse Imam

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at May 10, 2007 8:27 PM

Well ElBayly just got caught by the media about his remarks that has exposed the teachings of muhammuda nd islam. next imman will be more discreet l am sure!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at May 10, 2007 8:28 PM

discreet?...more like concealed, but...ok, "discreet" works, too.

Posted by: jcom972 at May 10, 2007 8:36 PM

I have long said this is the mindset of a colonist, not an immigrant. The difference is as easy to comprehend as the day is light and the night is dark. The political game moves like sludge and is full to the brim with b.s. My adrenaline goes haywire when I think about the fact that this collective islamic mind-set as pertains to living amongst us in 'the west', amongst the 'cross worhippers', the 'disbelievers' if you will...I say how dare they look down their noses at us. Then I remember that they are near robots, programmed by repetition, from the moment they fall out of the brood mare. They are smart enough to know demographics, which can conceivably in the future result in violence against the the native populace. Do we know of the violence which may be necessary to free ourselves? I think so. Each inch demanded by the islamists brings the dull, overworked and uncaring population closer to conflict with the colonists, the likes of which we can all imagine but really don't dare speak about. A global war seems so...ancient history...those black and white photos of former wars...too far in the past for the consumerist current society to feel true empathy for. We aren't asking for this. When the aggressor keeps pushing however, you must let self-preservation kick in. Our heritage is US in the here and now...those historical figures are in the fibre of our being. They fought for a belief and a free future.
If you can conceive of an easy way out, do share!

Posted by: anathema at May 10, 2007 8:38 PM

They just can't help it can they? Filled with years of hate taught from childhood and out it pops!

Posted by: Jihadtobejoking at May 10, 2007 8:40 PM

like a pimple...lol

Posted by: jcom972 at May 10, 2007 8:44 PM

From the article:

He did not threaten her, but explained that "all of her lies" warrant a death sentence.

I am often mystified by the logical contortions by our media. And if ElBayly wasn't arrested for making death threats, by our legal system.

Posted by: special_guest at May 10, 2007 8:44 PM

State levels aren't uniform on what constitutes a death threat.

Some don't care unless the subject comes out in plainspeak and says "I'm going to kill you".

Some are so sensitive that even implying it constitutes a death threat, often under auspices like "aggravated assault/battery" some of which are felonies.
Some are so loose with it that they don't do squat until the act is actually committed.
Combine that with the fact that this character fits into one of the many politically correct causes/sensitivities of the day, that he gets away with it.

Obviously he knows exactly how far he can push it without crossing that line...which also tells the tale that he knows the playbook (like most criminals do, and are very astute on themselves).
He's playing the game...and getting away with it, legally.

Posted by: jcom972 at May 10, 2007 9:45 PM

In reference to : "Baddala deenahu, faqtuluhu" -- if anyone changes his religion, kill him

My understanding is that the arabic word transliterated to English as "deen", is often translated into English as "religion" or "faith".

My question: among native arabic speakers, and among muslims, are Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other Religions, referred to as "deen", or are there other arabic words which are used instead?

i.e. is only islam described by "deen"? Or not?

Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.

Posted by: del at May 10, 2007 9:51 PM

"He did not threaten her, but explained that "all of her lies" warrant a death sentence."

We need a way to deal with these kinds of threats, which are going to become more and more common in the west as the Muslim population increases.

Any legal experts out there with some input on this?

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at May 10, 2007 9:58 PM

Robert writes:
"Now really, do you believe that a man who one week believed that Muhammad's command "Baddala deenahu, faqtuluhu" -- if anyone changes his religion, kill him (cf. Bukhari vol. 9, bk. 84, no. 57) -- was valid for all time, would suddenly the next week discover the freedom of conscience? Or is it just expedient for him to have done so?"

Expedient, of course.

They can't be trusted, any of them. they shouldn't
be here at all.

Posted by: root_cause at May 10, 2007 10:00 PM

Caught with his dogma down.

Off to a Mickey Pali-Rat costume in Gaza, no doubt.

Posted by: profitsbeard at May 10, 2007 10:08 PM

del,

I've always taken "deen" to mean a whole-life dedication to the utter submission to the will of Allah as revealed by Muhammad (and only as revealed by Muhammad). Sort of a totalitarian version of "the way".

I don't speak Arabic - it's just the impression I get of the meaning of the word as it is used by the devout. Maybe someone can enlighten us both further.

Posted by: Jan Sobieski at May 10, 2007 10:34 PM

Okay, so of course he's lying. The interesting question is, is it a good thing he was told that he'd better tell this lie or is it a bad thing? What I mean is this: _At least_ the mosque felt it couldn't brazen it out and should for public relations reasons make him step down and apologize. I'd like (but maybe I'm stretching it) to see this as a sign that they know they have to watch their step for now, anyway.

Posted by: Lydia at May 10, 2007 10:45 PM

Jan Sobieski,

Yes, thanks. My impression is similiar: that "Deen" is said reverentially, so from a muslim, would not apply to anything other than islam (the supposed, by muslims, only-true-faith). Nevertheless, I am not an arabic speaker, so I hope to find out from an arabic speaker if that is true.

It seems to be another small way that non-muslims talk right past muslims, and that muslims can mislead non-muslims about their texts.

Posted by: del at May 10, 2007 10:54 PM

Now the whole world is coming to know Islam, both by its fruits, and by the embarassing aspects of the faith. The Muhammad of the Islamic canon is widely known, his abuse of women, and masascres. That Islam calls for war against the infidel, and domination over them, is obvious. Even the mainstream media is slowing admitting the obvious. The widespread dissemination of the Jihad Mickey Mouse is an example of this. The Jihadis as well as critics are winning in the war for the infidel minds, except we're not getting more scared. People are starting to get it.

The death penalty for apostasy is the final straw of Islam's power. Once Muslims are unafraid to apostasize, the whole ideology, which we all know to be based in no small part on fear, will begin to shake itself apart. Though Islam will remain a problem, it will be slowly whittled down. Genuine reform, to the extent that it is possible, will begin to occur in earnest, first in the west and eventually in the Islamic countries.

If you read what the Islamic authorities in the west are saying among themselves, they know they are losing their young in vast numbers. Though there are plenty of Jihad-minded Muslims out there, there are millions quietly leaving. All it will take to accelerate the outflow is an concerted attack on Islam's death sentence for apostasy. Humiliating Muslim figures, or even (dare we hope?) prosecution of a few thug Mullahs, will blow this thing wide open. Once the Mullahs are forced through humiliation or fear of prosecution to issue Taqqiya about this aspect of Sharia, their power will be critically weakend.

Posted by: Quijybo at May 10, 2007 11:12 PM

deen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_(Arabic_term)

The word is also used by Arab Christians.

Posted by: PRCS at May 10, 2007 11:36 PM

No sht! ousted to what? Didn't Robert just attend a speech with Ms. Hirsi Ali? She is really intelligent. Very nice person. I cried when I found out I was apostate woman a year ago. kinda.. Read it in Robert's book. Then on a website! No, it can't be! Why is it they think everything governs around them now!? They should be ousted from our country! I just would not feel safe knowing this, as I don't. This book I have, and I have always used Jehweh's name since I was three. Then now to research it and I ran into all this ironically! They all have so many 'paths'. That is what the sunnis and shias fight about. Who's path is right. The islamist believe they have the right path-Sure is bloody! Theirs is to live from the 1st humanity=death! Jesus is the 2nd humanity=Life! Repeating myself I think. We are to have free Will! Not that kind he speaks. The kind Ms. Hirsi Ali speaks.

Posted by: MZ at May 10, 2007 11:54 PM

"After further deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that a person's religious choices are a personal matter and should not be subject to state or individual intervention."

WoW! how enlightened. Did he just figure that out? We've known that for over 200 years.

Wasn't he required to know that -- and agree to it -- when he immigrated to this country?

I wonder if he would repeat that statemen to a conference in Egypt or Saudi Arabia -- or is it just for our consumption.

Posted by: rational at May 11, 2007 12:00 AM

PRCS,

Thanks, although wikipedia is often misleading, in details large and small.

To whit, that line, "The word is also used by Arab Christians." I click over on the link to the "Arab Christian" article, but "deen" is not to be found. Why was that throwaway line included, then, in the wikipedia article? To mislead or obfuscate? To make "deen" seem less threatening to non-muslims? (Rhetorical questions)

Is "deen" used by Arab Christians? Is it used merely in some similiar way (place), but with a different real sense (meaning)? (Real question -- could an Arab Christian JW/DW reader please explain what Arab Christians refer to when they use "deen"?) My understanding is that Arab Christians also use "allah" in their Arab Christian liturgy as a word for "God" as understood in Christianity.

I also notice in that article:

" Inam Khawaja writing in a newspaper article [3] in July 2005 states, 'In the Quran, Islam is always referred to as Deen and not as Muzdhab, the Arabic word for religion. Deen means a complete code of life and is inclusive of religion (Muzdhab).'

Allama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez continues: 'These Laws of Allah in their final and complete form are given in the Quran, and are called Ad-Deen.' "

These 2 presumed authorities seem to say that "deen" is a word which refers expressly to islam, the supposed complete-one-true-path, in agreement with Jan Sobieski above.

Posted by: del at May 11, 2007 12:21 AM

they are starting to use P.C. against us now..... because we know that they LIE LIE LIE but there will be so many who will not believe that

Posted by: marilyn at May 11, 2007 12:29 AM

I can see that this "gentleman" has a good understanding of taqyyia.

~nothing to see here little infidels, go back to sleep.

Sorry, we aren't that stupid.

Posted by: treehugger at May 11, 2007 12:31 AM

del,

I agree, the wikipedia entry mentions that non-muslim Arabs use the word "deen", but I didn't see any explanation as to how and why they use it.

But what struck me most is that, as usual, the interpretations and views of the scholars quoted in the piece were even more harsh and totalitarian than I had expected.

Posted by: Jan Sobieski at May 11, 2007 12:45 AM

New apostasy bill to impose death on anyone who leaves Islam
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=9218&size=A

Pakistan’s government sends draft bill tabled by six-party Islamic alliance to standing committee for review. Under the bill’s terms, apostates would be sentenced to death or life in prison. Testimony by two adults is the only independent evidence needed to determine or demonstrate apostasy. Lahore archbishop is praying the bill is never adopted.A draft bill adopted in first reading by Pakistan’s National Assembly is now before a standing committee. Tabled by a six-party politico-religious alliance, the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal or MMA, the Apostasy Act 2006 which the government sent to the committee would impose the death penalty on Muslim men and life in prison on Muslim women in case they leave Islam. It would also force them to forfeit their property and lose legal custody of children.

During the same session, lawmakers rejected another draft bill moved by minority MNA Bhandara which sought to amend the existing blasphemy law.

“This situation is unfortunate and sad. We demand freedom of conscious, religion and expression in Pakistan, and this bill is contrary to the principle of freedom of choice”, said Archbishop Lawrence John Saldanha, head of National Commission for Justice and Peace and chairman of the Pakistan Catholic Bishops’ Conference.
Because international human rights charters give every individual the right to change his or her religion according to his or her conscience, we hope and pray that this bill will not be passed,” Mgr Saldanha said.

Should the bill become law anyone who leaves Islam for another religion can be sentenced to death (if male) or life in prison ‘until repentance occurs’ (if female).

Section 4 of the bill says that the offender’s own confession in court or the testimony by at least two adults is sufficient grounds for conviction in apostasy cases. Testimony by non Muslims is not however admissible in certain Pakistani courts.

Section 5 stipulates that the ‘offender’ must be granted 3 to 30 days to recant the conversion and return to Islam. But even in cases where the person returns to Islam judges can impose two-year sentences as punishment for the original ‘crime’. The accused can convert and reconvert up to three times before the death sentence becomes automatic.

Under Section 8 apostates forfeit all their properties which are awarded only to their Muslim relatives. Section 9 says that they also lose custody to any minor in their care and guardianship, including their biological children.

Posted by: aggiegabe at May 11, 2007 4:41 AM

"..."... I have come to realize that I was mistaken in my understanding of that issue...."

...oops, those dang infidels understand my militant Islam ideals better than I thought they did!...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 11, 2007 6:01 AM

I really hate this word "misspoke". Is this easier than saying "I WAS WRONG". Misspoke is using INFER when you mean IMPLY.

I see Politicians in Australia have taken to saying it to get out of stupid things they said.

Shouldn't that idiot be deported from USA?

Posted by: payingattention at May 11, 2007 8:28 AM

ousted or outed...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 11, 2007 9:19 AM

"Some don't care unless the subject comes out in plainspeak and says "I'm going to kill you"."

But they DO come right out and say they want to kill us....and the media and many of our elected officials STILL don't want to believe it.

Benjamin Netanyahu said it best: "If someone says they want to kill you, believe them...."

Posted by: DBR at May 11, 2007 9:35 AM

"... I have come to realize that I was mistaken in my understanding of that issue. I misspoke, and I apologize," he wrote.

More like: "I got caught so I am doing what I have to do to get out of this mess." Taqiyya

Posted by: Allahfanculo at May 11, 2007 11:49 AM

From an article on WND. So they have segregated prayer facilities in Miami/Dade as well. Good to know.

9/11 'Party Platters'

Miami-Dade County Police Department officials tell WND that after 9/11 a group of Muslim cab drivers at Miami International Airport held a celebration on a carpeted area of the concourse reserved for Islamic prayer.

Some were overheard allegedly saying, "Finally, the Great Satan got what it deserved."

Posted by: Allahfanculo at May 11, 2007 12:06 PM

"I have come to realize I was mistaken." = "I've been busted and am in denial mode."

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at May 11, 2007 4:49 PM

"I have come to realize I was mistaken." = "I've been busted and am in denial mode."

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at May 11, 2007 4:49 PM

"I have come to realize I was mistaken." = "I've been busted and am in denial mode."

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at May 11, 2007 4:49 PM