From this, it is safe to assume that the only Iraqis who can be trusted are the Christian minorities - meaning that around 97% of them are totally untrustworthy, unreliable, and will smile at you during the day whilst placing IEDs at night, ready to blow up the vehicles of some unsuspecting Coalition soldiers. The enemy can be easily identified. It is 97% of the Iraqi population. Around $1 trillion has been spent trying to get that dysfunctional country on its feet, and we who rescued them from Saddam Hussein, have been repaid by treachery and mass murder - proving that under Sadam, they got what they deserved and nothing less. Being a Muslim is all about repaying those who help them with premature burial. Being a Muslim is about being ungrateful when aid is given to them. Being a Muslim is all about wanting to cut off our heads when we rebuild their schools and hospitals. And finally, being a Muslim is all about being the most dysfunctional, barbaric, backward, misogynistic, intolerant, heartless, ungrateful, treacherous and vilest sod on the planet.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at May 13, 2007 8:56 AM

What I cannot understand about this entire Iraqi operation is:

-why not have predator drones follow each of these (too small) and (overly) exposed partols at all times.

At least that way there could be a real time air response (hellfire missiles).

And also an instant alert to scramble jet fighters- or get any nearby Humvees onto the scene fast.

The overall strategy is so slipshod and so wasteful of our men that it seems like a "do it on the cheap" rather than "do it right" mode of warfare.

Pussyfooting rather than prosecuting.

They need to cut the crap with these tentative patrols, and, whenever our forces are attacked, we should lay waste to the region in reply.

This, more than lamenting our losses, would convince the enemy of our seriousness.

And would eliminate them.

Or isn't that the point?

Posted by: profitsbeard at May 13, 2007 9:00 AM

What odds, the Humvee had a sticky on its windshield, upon which was written something like;
"What have you done to win an Iraqi heart and mind today?".
What odds, the Iraqi "translator" is right now laughing it up with his Sunni buddies about those gullible kuffar?

Sickening, just bloody sickening.

God bless those good Americans and soldiers, sacrificed at the altar of ignorance, in pursuit of the impossible dream of a free, democratic Iraq with Sharia law enshrined in its constitution. What a oxymoron.

Even as an Australian, this makes me bloody angry.
Educate yourselves about Islam, those who would assume the role of leadership of our Western civilization - just bloody do it, you ignorant bastards.

Posted by: Mike_W at May 13, 2007 9:21 AM

This is the worst nightmare for the families of those missing soldiers.

Poll after poll indicate that US & UK troops are not welcome in iraq. Our people don't want them there and Iraqis most certainly don't.In fact the only people who want our troops to be there are the policitians who got us in this mess in the first place.

"We must stay in Iraq until the Irqis want us", says our government. Well read the polls, you imbeciles.

Get the heck out there. Why prolong the agony?

The saying usually goes: "things will get a worse before if gets better".
My take on Iraqi/islam (for they are inseperable) situation is slightly different:
"things will get worse before they gets a lot worse".

Posted by: Hermit at May 13, 2007 9:24 AM

Just assume the Muslims are foes and you can't go wrong. Whatever we do there, we need to control the oil fields. No money, no jihad.

Posted by: jewdog at May 13, 2007 9:28 AM

First thing I read this morning:

BAGHDAD: Seven US soldiers and an Iraqi army interpreter were attacked during a patrol in an Al Qaeda stronghold south of Baghdad yesterday. Five were killed and three are missing, the US military said.

Then, I read this:

In a move that echoes the hearts-and-minds strategy of the Vietnam War, the U.S. military is planning to build two "super-madrassas" in Afghanistan in an effort to win over religious leaders and to convince parents not to send their children to madrassas in Pakistan run by Islamic extremists.

The planned super-madrassas, under construction in the border town of Paktika, Afghanistan, will accommodate 1,000 boys each, the London Telegraph reported.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55671

Then it gets even better:

Bush to pressure Senate to revive U.N. sea treaty. Critics say it would put 70% of Earth under control of global bureaucracy

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55671

Is this "president" insane or what?

Posted by: witness at May 13, 2007 9:28 AM

Get ready for the satanic videos. These pigs enjoy the beheading, drilling torture videos.
I am praying with everything in me that our guys will find them before they are in a snuff film.
God, how I hate them.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at May 13, 2007 9:32 AM

The top U.S. commander in Iraq told troops he's concerned by a poll showing fewer than half say Iraqi civilians should be treated with dignity and respect.

Our values and the laws governing warfare teach us to respect human dignity, maintain our integrity, and do what is right," Gen. David Petraeus wrote in the letter dated Thursday, the Pentagon said. "Adherence to our values distinguishes us from our enemy."

Petraeus urged U.S. troops to take the "moral high ground" when dealing with the Iraqi people and insurgents.

General Petraeus, you should be ashamed. You are responsible for your men and their families. Enjoy that 4th star. It’s shiny.

Posted by: pez at May 13, 2007 9:52 AM

Witness asks: "Is this 'president' insane or what?"

Far from insane, he's a satanic global socialist who is following a plan.

Let's take a short look...

1. As a reward for years of genocidal Jew-killing known as Intifada I, Intifada II, and the Lebanon war, he aggressively implements the saudi "peace" plan, which among other things cuts Israel in half and gives Holy Land to muslim terrorists. So much for the "war" on "terror."

2. Pursues a beyond insane "war" that benefits no one except defense related industry stockholders.

3. Aggressively destroys our sovereignty by brazenly violating federal law regarding illegal aliens, including muslim terrorists.

4. Refuses to even consider energy independence as a matter of National Security. But why should he? bush al-saud has a long family history with the saudis, who, oh, by the way, are in control of islam's most "holy" place.

5. bush al-saud controls the "justice" department who through their various agencies implement his "vision" that islam is a religion of peace hijacked by a few naughty boys who need free korans, prayer rugs, and halal food should they be incarcerated.

6. bush al-saud aggressively prosecutes Marines and Border Patrol agents in show-trials to curry favor with those committed to our destruction.

And on and on and on and it ain't over yet. In fact, it is just starting.

Posted by: Arm A. Geddon at May 13, 2007 9:55 AM

From this, it is safe to assume that the only Iraqis who can be trusted are the Christian minorities -
Posted by Spirit of 1683

Wrong! I have personal experience dealing with Christian Iraqi's and they are just as bad as the Sunni's. The only thing we have in common with them is our support for Israel. They are anti-US demons and laugh at the deaths of our soldiers.

This story has me extremely upset and livid. How many more soldiers have to be tortured and killed before their commanders wise up? What were these soldiers doing patrolling alone in that area with no back up? This should not have been allowed, especially after we went thru the same thing less than a year ago in the same exact area? Their
commanders need to be reamed and demoted. I have been praying for these soldiers since I heard the news and what good will it do.....I'm sure they are being tortured to death this very moment and their bodies will be found mutilated within the next few days. After this, that entire city should be leveled to set an example, but no, we have a stupid, weak military leadership who doesn't do shit to protect their own, thus the reason we are losing over there. Just think what kind of Mother's Day their mothers are having because of this?!!! I ask everyone to please say a prayer for those soldiers, may God help them and have mercy on them, and let us have our vengeance.

I also ask everyone to write the President at comments@whitehouse.gov asking that our troops be withdrawn. The only solution to this war is political diplomacy. The Iraqi's will not step up to run their country until our troops are gone.

Posted by: Bonniea at May 13, 2007 10:19 AM

We must throw the Geneva Conventions away. This war cannot be won as long as we play by some artificial rules written for civilized people. The reality is that two American Soldiers will be found dead and mutilated in about two weeks. Those are ugly words, but some people need a dose of reality. I am getting that depressed feeling I had just after February, 1968. The light at the end of the tunnel turned out to be the glow from a lit fuse.

We are fighting under the Marquess of Queensberry Rules while the jihad soldiers are using The Mohammed of Mecca Rules.

Posted by: Pelayo at May 13, 2007 10:43 AM

They are anti-US demons and laugh at the deaths of our soldiers. by Bonniea

I did not read you comment before I posted at 10:43, we're just thinking alike. However, I believe that Christians in Iraq would act overtly anti-American out of self preservation. If they show active support for Americans, they will soon be dead.

Posted by: Pelayo at May 13, 2007 10:54 AM

I am beyond sick of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Muslim World.

We're playing this all wrong.

Posted by: Foehammer at May 13, 2007 10:58 AM

hello Arm A. Geddon,
I think your giving GWB just a little too much credit for all of those things you attribute him to.I am agreeing with you on what is going on ,just not that Bush is totaly responsible.I believe his heart was in the right place he is no evil socialist maybe the system is already too far gone.It started as far as I can tell with the babyboomer generation and their parents.Back when an enemy was just that an enemy to our present day when our society(not Bush)recognizes no enemy, maybe just a poor oppressed(by us of course)"insurgent",to be treated with full Geneva convention protection.I think there was a very slow almost invisible process that led our whole culture to the point it is now,and nothing short of a global calamity will fix it.I dunno maybe I am wrong thats just my take.
I am praying that the 3 soldiers missing were already dead and the enemy took the bodies to mess with us,these guys know what surrender means in the hands of the cult,so I think they all went down fighting.

Posted by: tscipio at May 13, 2007 11:08 AM

Please note that 2500 American troops are scouring for those soldiers. They would not have done so for three soldiers taken prisoner in Vietnam, nor in Korea, nor in World War II. Why are they doing it? They are doing it because they know that the soldiers, taken prisoner by Muslim Iraqis, will not merely be killed but are also likely to be killed in gruesome ways, and then their mutilated bodies displayed. And this will enrage the American soldiers -- who are already more than enraged at those wonderful, grateful ("the liberation of Baghdad will make the liberation of Kabul seem like a funeral procession") Iraqis we not only liberated from a murderous dictator, but also at the "Iraqi people," those "ordinary moms and dads" Bush likes to prate about (remember his State of the Union message, and his sentimental embrace of some "typical" and "representative" (most atypical, most unrepresentative) Iraqi women, and how they clapped, and how tears came to eyes, and so on? We are being led by fools, who lack the wit to learn, or even to recognize what it is they do not know, and must learn, if they wish to protect and instruct and defend us.

2500 troops, spending a day, a week, looking for those soldiers. Using up the manpower, and the time, of this hopeless "surge." And meanwhile, the Iraqis choose to reject those walls that are part of the Petraeus-out-of-Galula "counterinsurgnecy" strategy, with its "laws of counterinsurgency" that make one laugh and cry ("counterinsurgencies last, on average, ten years") at the avoiding-the-Islam, refusing-to-see-that-there-are-several-different insurgencies attitudes of the much-hyped Petraeus, who if he still believes that it makes sense to prevent, rather than do nothing to impede, those sectarian and ethnic fissures (did I forget to mention again that Kirkuk will explode any day now? Well, now I am), is as useless as the other generals.

Wake up, and smell the Islam. Figure out what the world-wide Jihad is, what prompts it, what its most effective instruments are (money weapon, Da'wa, demographic conquest) and figure out how the goals set by the Administration in Iraq help to weaken, or not, the Camp of Islam. No general should simply dutifully sacrifice men and materiel for a policy that, if he gave the matter thought, he would recognize as folly.

There are limits to loyalty. There are limits to this ours-not-to-reason-why business. It was not General Westmoreland, but Colonel David Hackworth, who entered history a hero. It is not those generals who, apparently afraid of losing their power, promotions, and full fat pensions, who will be honored by posterity -- but those who come to their senses, and force others, in the Pentagon, and Congress, and the last redoubt of folly, the White House, to come to their senses as well.

Posted by: Hugh at May 13, 2007 11:18 AM

Pelayo, I also agree with you, the Geneva Convention should be tossed out when dealing with terrorists. Regarding the Iraqi Christians, they didn't have to pretend anything with me in order to feel safe. The rant I heard about their hatred for us gave me a constant migraine headache and I had to end all correspondence. When their churches were being bombed, they blamed us for it even though they knew Sunni insurgents were responsible. Our only friends there are the Kurds. The rest can go to hell.

Posted by: Bonniea at May 13, 2007 11:23 AM

Odds are that those guys weren't "gunmen wearing Iraqi Army uniforms", but rather were actual members of the Iraqi army trained and equipped by the U.S.
We need to get out of that hell-hole, but before we go the troops should blow up, knock over, or remove every infrastructure repair or improvement that they made. No water, no electricity, no schools, no hospitals. And as they pull out, they shoot everybody who even looks at them cross-eyed.
Cargo planes fly in loaded with rations and ammo. When both are expended, troops fly out on the empty planes.

Everything I've seen, read, or heard about Islam and Muslims for years had shown me that there can be no peaceful co-existence. I look at most religious faith as a minor mental illness. Islam, by contrast, is a large metastisizing (sp?) brain tumor. If it is not excised, it will kill civilization.

Posted by: give me doughnuts at May 13, 2007 11:35 AM

It is no wonder that things are going the way that they are. Our high (really high) command, in the middle of their voyage aboard the good ship lollypop though the islamist world want our troops to above all play fair, take the moral high ground boys! Good lord, the PC types, educated in modern warfare, which looks a lot like school yard warfare have invaded and hi jacked our fighting men and machine. Play fair, what the hell does that mean Mr. kindygarten teacher? Don’t worry though if we loose we can always look back at the days when we had the moral high ground, along with our freedoms, rights, and yes even some of our lives. Mental midgets telling us how to behave, the world surely is upside down. We have come a long way since Patton and it aint in the right direction in my opinion. We used to have Generals, now we have social workers with pretty little stars and such on their uniforms.
“Fight by the rules” or… Put your asses on the line, or I will.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070510/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_battlefield_ethics
Iraq=Animal Farm 2007

Posted by: tgusa at May 13, 2007 11:35 AM

tscipio,

We are much more in agreement than not.

As for the poor American soldiers, their lives were wasted as were thousands before them and as the 2-5 more I'll hear about upon waking tomorrow.

Hopefully all their deaths were quick, but we know that's not the case. We all know what the satanic cult of death does: excruciating, horrible, prolonged agony where one begs for death and is denied, given only enough time to recover a bit, and then more torture - a cycle repeated until the maximum possible pain is extracted before death. The bodies are then mutilated, dismembered, often having their severed genitals stuffed in their mouths and left for public display.

This Evil called islam knows no bounds.

Posted by: Arm A. Geddon at May 13, 2007 11:41 AM

This is the first I heard of the multilated soldiers. I heard of them but not this brutality they went through! The liberals and muslims cry fowl when muslims are not given what they want! Like a rug! They will not get our soldiers what they need! If the solders had a chip in them we would of had them back in less than an hour! Maybe it is unwinable when you have such bias going against what we are trying to do. Yaa, lets go back to Afghanistan and if they start showing up there we can go back to Iraq! The unwinable winable war -new dhimmi strategy! I think the three missing soldiers are in Iraq on the border where we won't go! Taken by Sadr! I pray for them!

Posted by: MZ at May 13, 2007 11:41 AM

Catherine – I’ll admit to being asleep when all of this “Albania” stuff took place – was just in my own world, I guess. I really don’t know what all of “this” was about – don’t know what led up to it – only that it ended with us welcoming Albanian refugees [whoa! our bad!]. Thanks for the link to YouTube for some education.

Anyone got recommendations of books out there I could get at the library on this particular political period? If so, I’d be appreciative to know what they are.

I’ll Google Slobodan Milosevic and see what I can come up with. Hmmp. Hate to color myself so naïve, but just didn’t realize there was a world outside of mine at that time.

And, Doughnuts – you couldn’t be more spot on! Try living in the middle of one of their “worlds.” I don’t know how I’ve done it this long. I just have to keep telling myself that but for the fact that 15 of the 19 pilots who used OUR planes as missiles on 9/11 my husband would still have a job with the airlines in the States and that we are here now – where he has a job – solely for the purpose of taking as much of their money as possible.

Posted by: BT in SA at May 13, 2007 11:46 AM

Hugh speaks the truth. Again.

Posted by: Foehammer at May 13, 2007 12:11 PM

Just another day of livin large in the rop.
Pakistani riots, 37 dead, Karachi burning. Hey, what did they think would happen if they gave the illusion of fighting islamists?
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/05/13/ap3715124.html

Posted by: tgusa at May 13, 2007 12:18 PM

NO MERCY FOR TERRORISTS, THEY DESERVE NOTHING LESS AND SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE WORLDS CIVILIZATION.

Posted by: OLD SARGE at May 13, 2007 12:44 PM

I'd be willing to offer the muslims a trade:

We give them bush, condi, albright, clinton, et al hell all of congress -- they give us the three missing soldiers unharmed.

Posted by: witness at May 13, 2007 12:44 PM

Now I see why the Serbians acted as they did with the muslims. Force and cruelty are the only things muslims understand and the only thing that will even temporarily cow them.

Many we need to ask the Serbians for lessons in dealing with muslims.

Posted by: schwaben at May 13, 2007 2:41 PM

Maybe we need to ask the Serbians for lessons in dealing with muslims.
Posted by: schwaben

Only if one believes Serb-hating, islam-serving useful idiots (for ex. Amanpour CNN whore).

Otherwise if you want to know how to deal with muslims you need to know how the Moslems dealt with Serbians.

Posted by: thomas. h at May 13, 2007 3:17 PM

There was an incident when the Muslims were besieging Malta in 1565 where the muslim army took a strongpoint, then proceeded to torture and mutilate the bodies of the defenders they captured. They were then nailed to wooden cross structures, and send into the bay to wash up on the shore to demoralize the defenders of the main fortress.

There response of the commander of the defending forces in the main fortress was to order the beheading of all muslim prisoners, load the heads into canons, and fire them into the camp of the besieging muslim forces.

After taking heavy casualties, the muslim force gave up and sailed home, I'm willing to bet that course of action had a psycholigical impact on the besiegers that contributed to the failed siege, i.e. they knew they were against defenders who would not be intimidated and were ruthless themselves....

That was exactly the right way to deal with terrorism then, and it is the right way to deal with terrorism now.

Take a bunch of Al Qaida's we have in Guantonomo now, do to them what Al-Qaida did to the two soldiers it captured the last time, and air drop the bodies where the patrol was attacked....

That would send a message that we will not be intimidated.... they are using terror to try to intimnidate America and US forces, the proper response to give them exactly what they want to give to us, and the next time anyone will think twice about torturing our soldiers if they know that will lead to the same treatment for them if they are captured....

But back to reality, won't happen. What will likely happen instead is the government will give millions to some company to develop "sensitivity" training for our troops to reverse the highly troubling poll that a percentage of them is unlikely to report "mistreatment" of Iraqi civilians.

Posted by: godfreyofbouillon at May 13, 2007 4:23 PM

I am so distraught over this that I am almost shaking. And I blame Gd'ed MFing bush. he had the nerve the other day to denounce the democrats for trying to cut off funding for the troops. actually, georgie boy, they're trying to cut off funding for your stupid war. even if they admitted to wanting to cut funding for the troops, their misguided position pales in comparison to the misguided mission you have assigned the US military. LBJ was haunted by Vietnam into an early grave. if bush were a normal person, he'd suffer the same fate for his stupid iraqi adventure. but i think he's too stupid to let the pointless death of hundreds upon hundreds of America's finest disturb his nocturnal slumber.

for over 3 years i've asked myself how can a person who was a drunk in early adulthood, who suffered repeated failures in various ventures that his father had to bail him out of, and who found success merely as the result of his name & not of his ability, how can such a person not acquire the humility to question his decisions? and he clearly doesn't question his decisions. after all, he's the stay-the-course guy, the i'm-not-gonna-cut-and-run guy, the we'll-stand-down-when-they-stand-up guy. if, despite repeated failures before his political career, georgie-boy refuses to listen to contrary points of view & insists on surrounding himself with yes-men & fawners (such as Harriett Myers), he should restrict himself to running a franchise outlet somewhere, and not being president. if he were here i'd spit in his face.

Posted by: sheik yer booty at May 13, 2007 6:02 PM

Why are we using American troops as a police force for Iraqi Moslems? The purpose of America's armed forces is to defend us--Americans--not sharia Islamic governments nor their Moslem populations.

Who should do the policing?

For a proposal see

http://islamic-danger.blogspot.com/

or

http://islamic-danger.blogspot.com/2007/05/stop-dying-for-moslems-here-we-think.html

Posted by: unicorns62000 at May 13, 2007 6:41 PM

Dead U.S soldiers are the LUCKY ONES-would like to know how many Fat Cat Politicians have SENT THEIR KIDS TO IRAQ HELL?? Grieve for all captured
Infidel soldiers[including Iraqi Interpreter who was only trying to make a living]-know only too well what their torture & sufferings will be...
And for what-an unwinable War thought up by Imbeciles-making profits out of BLOOD for likes of Cheyney & Halliburton??
Agree with Poster who wrote-"let's give them Bush,Cheyney & Condi in exchange for safe return of our soldiers."

Posted by: Morgane at May 13, 2007 8:42 PM

My prayers are with the missing and their dead soldiers , may God protect them.

Posted by: sul3j at May 13, 2007 8:42 PM

Only son is with 3rd ID for 2nd Iraq tour. They have been kept on the move since January when they arrived. Initially in Ramadi, only recently arrived at base near Fallujah. Many of these soldiers are on their first tours. Moving from one area to another doesn't let them get familiar; I guess that's the nature of "the surge". Rules of Engagement have our warriors fighting with boxing gloves on their hands. Having a Congressional majority announce surrender, retreat, and impoverishment for our military in Iraq has emboldened the enemy. These deaths lie on the head of every American, especially those in Congress and in the media, who has not publicly and continuously called for the victory of freedom for Iraq to be delivered by the American military.

It takes no genius to put a finger on Iraq on a globe and imagine what advantage America can have by having a "presence in force" there. The ability to "influence" and to "deal with" Iran, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Pakistan, India, Turkey, Russian, China, et.al. is possible from there. We live in a world of competitors for limited resources, and America must put the interests of its citizens first. Iraq is a critical element in America's future here at home, in the middle-east, and everywhere else in the world. Let's get on with the job and pump that oil this direction.

We must conquer the enemy (islam-ic muslim-ian islam-ist sharia-istian haters). The rest of the middle-east must be convinced that they will be punished severely by the world's greatest superpower for promoting this hatred in any form. The new Iraqi government, just as England did to Germany following WWII, should be under the martial law of "occupying powers" for decades to come. America should stay long enough to shape a future for liberty for Iraq, and help it spread as far and fast as possible.

This flood of jihadis that has swept over the globe must be stemmed at the source. If one is too obtuse to understand some simple facts about jihad, to be aware of a few basic realities of historical and geographical significance, to have enough foresight see the obvious evil that is before us, then one should should just sit on the back porch and have a nice warm cup of STFU, Congressperson or no. We should be engaged in dispatching to God as many in Iraq as take up arms against American warriors. Foreign fighters in Iraq, e.g. Iranian & Syrian, should result in very convincing "shock and awe" attacks by the United States of America on some very high-value targets in those countries.

This is WAR - FIGHT, by God! I want to see massive, crushing, incinerating destruction on those areas that harbor enemy combatants. I want to see areas of Iraq laid waste that would make the boys that lit up Dresden proud. This "war-lite", made for Barbara Streisand concerts, Hillary book signings, and Jimmy Carter Nobel celebration parties, is not persuading the globalized muslim islamic murderers to cease and desist. We really must get out the napalm and fight mohammed-fire with bigger, better, western-engineered freedom-fire. Savage, brutal, unflinching, suppressing force is the sole holder of muslim-ist respect - and even then - they worship and adore death under any circumstances, so our military should go ahead and kill as many as possible so both sides can win - a "win-win" if you will, for lovers of freedom on this planet and for islamist in "paradise". Iraq's democratically elected government won't be able to "stand-up" to internal strife, foreign interference, islamic demands for a long time. America will have to steer Iraq's course as a parent would a beloved child for at least as long as it takes to raise an adult in America (about 35 years).

Right now, my mind just screams for God to take His revenge on the murderers of these American warriors.

Posted by: twolaneflash at May 14, 2007 12:26 AM

Bonniea: I am totally surprised to hear about your experiences with Iraqi Christians. I don't get it (maybe they didn't appreciate the removal of a secular dictator, I don't know). I know a couple of Assyrians and I like them. I really hope you find your soldiers before...

Posted by: SerbInfidel at May 14, 2007 12:36 AM

The reasons keep growing to remove Coalition from Iraq.
I feel sorry for the poor people, the nationals, who do want peace but as they are indistinguishable from the murdering b.....ds who are willing to slaughter anybody,it's time to withdraw and let then get on with it.
When you have a race of people who have no kindness or rationality and who are totally tribal and willing to murder anyone to obtain power, it's time to withdraw.
It is no loss by the coalition,just an acceptance of the fact that you can kill cockroaches but there will always be more cockroaches. It is time to concentrate on pest control in our own homes.
It's time to withdraw.

Posted by: marilyn at May 14, 2007 12:43 AM

SerbInfidel, I believe they were profiting under Saddam's regime and said we ruined their country, which we did. It was just surprising to hear a Christian speak with hatred about the US. However, I also made acquaintances with a Shiite doctor who was very appreciative and tried to help us by giving tips about Baathists, etc. The poor doctor had to flee for his life because terrorists threatened to kill him. On an interesting note, they all dream of coming to America whether they like us or not.

Twolaneflash, your post is outstanding. I hope your son returns home safely.

Posted by: Bonniea at May 14, 2007 9:26 AM

"This flood of jihadis that has swept over the globe must be stemmed at the source. If one is too obtuse to understand some simple facts about jihad, to be aware of a few basic realities of historical and geographical significance..."
-- from a poster above

"Stemmed [sic] at the source"? What do the think "the source" is? Do you think the "source" of the "flood of jihadis that has swept over the globe" is Iraq? Really? More of a "source" than Saudi Arabia, or the "Palestinian"-held territories, or Pakistan?

The "source" is not one place, one region. The "source" is a series of texts: Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, and all the places, all the nations, societies (within Western cities), even families, even to a lone individual "refinding" his Islam in a student apartment complex in Chapel Hill, or an engineer in Portland -- that's the "source."

How will keeping American troops in Iraq, as you apparently support "for years to come" (at what incredible, hideous, unbelievable expense -- a squandering of men, money, and materiel), help us to halt or reverse the islamization, through demography and Da'wa, large parts of Western Europe? Is it inconceivable that in a decade France, Great Britain, and other countries will have their foreign policies totally in thrall to Muslim voters? Is it inconceivable that a few decades after that, the armories of our West European allies will be accessible to Muslims who will have actually been encouraged by Western governments to join the military, and the police forces, in order to better "integrate" into Western societies, and that many will do, but not for the benign purposes assumed by those pushing them? And is it not possible, is it not already being seen, that there are grave threats that they might lay their hands on some of the weaponry that the Western Infidel states have acquired for their own use? In other words, rather than merely stealing nuclear plans -- as A. Q. Khan did while "working" in laboratories in Germany and the Netherlands, and brought them back for Pakistani production of bombs, Muslim citizens of Infidel lands can slowly infiltrate -- and be encouraged, in a sense, by Western governments to do so, as they smile, and smile, and at any point, we have no idea when, they may, if they do not already feel keenly their loyalty to the umma al-islamiyya, then something may trigger it, and we helpless, hapless, terminally trusting Western publics will realize only too late.

But you want to stick it out for years yet in Iraq, do you? You want to spend another trillion dollars there, instead of on energy projects at home to cut off the money weapon that is so essential to the world-wide Jihad?

No. You are wrong. That money needs to be better spent. Those American soldiers should not be getting in the way of Al-Qaeda killing those "Rafidite dogs" (as they call the Shi'a), nor of those Shi'a militia doing their own revenge killing, forcing Sunnis out of Baghdad. In the end it will be a standoff: the Sunnis will not be able to re-take Baghdad or the Shi'a lands, and the Shi'a have no desire to take over Anbar Province, but will merely go off on their own, with the big prize of Baghdad.

And in the north, the Kurds and Arabs (of both kinds, but mainly the Sunnis) will no doubt go at it, and there, for geopolitical not sentimental reasons, there are ways for the Americans to aid the Kurds (and to extract a few promises -- about protecting the Christians, the Assyrians in the northern villages, the means to protect themselves or guaranteeing their safety, if only in order to keep receiving American weaponry).

Google a few cut-and-runners, will you? Google the name "General Sir Michael Rose." Google the name "Major General John Batiste." Look at their faces, read what they say.

Their fury at the waste in Iraq is correct. Where they do go wrong -- and it is understandable -- is to use the word "defeat." The Americans have not been "defeated" in Iraq. The only thing that has been "defeated" is the Bush Adminstration, with its absurd Light-Unto-the-Muslim-Nations (a phrase I notice Mustafa Akyol has now copied, in his Washington Times piece, in order to apply it to Turkey).'

Now google "Jihad Watch" and "Hugh Fitzgerald" and "Victory" and "Iraq" and see what articles come up. And then see if, in truth, as one of them says, Victory Lies Shining Before Us.

But only if we get out. And this a confused, desperate, and at the same time most obstinate Administration, cannot admit. How, after such expense and squandering and swaggering, can they do it? How can they admit they were wrong? They just can't. Too much permanent egg on too many faces. Too many loyalists (see National Review, see My Weekly Standard, see see see) who have stood staunchly and idiotically in favor of whatever the Administration does in Iraq.

How do you define "victory" in Iraq? Here's how I define it: an outcome which will weaken the Camp of Islam, by dividing and demoralizing forces within it. Do you think another trillion dollars, and remaiining in Iraq to dodge enemies, now on this side, now on that, meanwhile preventing those enemies from inflicting too much harm on each other, is the way to go? Do you think keeping 150,000 hostages to potential Iranian retaliation, in case of an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, makes sense?

Describe the "victory" in Iraq you envision, the one connected to the Administration's murky goals? How will a unified Iraq, a prosperous Iraq (neither is possible at this point unless we are prepared to keep it together with our army, and more tens or hundreds of billions in aid -- I don't want a single dollar more given to Iraq, not one to be siphoned off by those in various ministries, past masters at grand theft of Amerian taxpayers' money) help us in what you correctly describe as a world-wide Jihad?

Don't, please, merely parrot the party-line. Think this through. In other words, do what very few in Washington have managed to do, in the hectic vacancies of their meetings and schemings, over the past five years.

Explain please. Right here.

Posted by: Hugh at May 14, 2007 9:37 AM