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In an interview at FrontPage today, Mary Habeck, a professor at Johns Hopkins and author of a book about the jihadists entitled Knowing the Enemy, makes a number of observations about the jihad ideology, and why more Muslims don't stand up to the jihadists, that are worth looking at more closely.
...Thus, Muslims are allowed to fight these unbelievers in a just jihad. Their definition of jihad is quite different from that generally accepted by Muslims today. Most Muslims say that jihad is first and foremost an internal struggle to control one's desires or, if it is about fighting, jihad is a defensive just war.
Most Muslims may indeed believe that. Yet while this likelihood provides comfort for non-Muslims with its suggestion that most Muslims would prefer to tend to their own souls rather than to wage war against their non-Muslim neighbors, it actually doesn’t establish what both Muslims and non-Muslims seem to wish it did. This is because the traditional pedigree of the spiritual jihad is not as firm as it is often advertised to be. The hadith in which Muhammad makes a distinction between “greater jihad” of spiritual struggle and the “lesser jihad” of warfare doesn't appear in any of the hadith collections that Muslims consider most reliable. Jihad understood as warfare against unbelievers in order to establish the hegemony of Islamic law has much greater support in Islamic scripture, tradition, and historical practice -- and leading jihad theorists including Hasan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin Laden’s friend and intellectual mentor and co-founder with him of Al-Qaeda, challenge the authenticity of the saying in their writings. This only buttresses their claim, which Habeck notes below, to represent the "true believers."
These extremists make jihad into the central tenet of their religion, arguing that it is primarily about fighting both defensively and offensively (to spread the just laws of Islam). They also say that any Muslim who does not participate in their jihad is not a "true believer," and is at most a sinner and at worst an unbeliever and can therefore be killed with impunity.
Habeck gives no hint here of the fact that the theology of offensive and defensive jihad is far older than the "extremists," and is in fact rooted in the Qur'an (2:193 and 9:29 for offensive jihad) and Muhammad's statements, notably the one in which he directs his followers to offer non-Muslims conversion, subjugation, or war. Then there are the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, which all teach the necessity for offensive jihad in order to subjugate unbelievers under the rule of Sharia.
All this answers the follow-up question below far more convincingly than Habeck answers it: the moderate Muslims don't speak out more forcefully against the jihadists because if they do, the jihadists can easily portray them as unfaithful Muslims, and quote Qur'an and Sunnah to establish their position. And that can make the lives of the moderates difficult in many ways.
Habeck is aware of this. Last year, Daveed Gartenstein-Ross reviewed her book and noted that in it she drew a sharp distinction between jihadist theology and "traditional Islam." I wrote to him, asking him a number of questions about the content of this distinction and related matters, and he discussed them with Dr. Habeck over lunch. At the time, he got permission from her for me to publish her answers from his emails -- and he gave me his permission also to publish what he wrote to me.
Here's what Gartenstein-Ross wrote to me in response: "I had lunch with Prof. Habeck on 8/8, a couple of days after receiving your e-mail, and was able to put the question to her myself. Prof. Habeck's answer was that she used the term 'traditional Islam' sloppily in her book. She says that she generally has used the term two ways: referring to Islam as practiced before Napoleon's 1798 invasion of Egypt and referring to Islam as practiced in individual societies such as Indonesia or Pakistan before exposure to Wahhabism/Salafism or other foreign strains that alter the indigenous practice." So in other words, she is referring to what I refer to as "cultural Islam."
I had also asked if Dr. Habeck could name any orthodox sects or schools of Islamic jurisprudence that rejected the necessity of jihad warfare in order to institute Sharia. Gartenstein-Ross answered: "I also put to her your question about traditional Islamic sects that 'reject the proposition that the umma must wage war in order to establish Sharia.' She agreed without hesitation that such sects have not existed within mainstream Islam historically."
Yet despite knowing this, Habeck goes on in the FP interview to assert that the jihadists have hijacked Islam, and to make several other dubious assertions:
FP: Why are “moderate” Muslims so silent, in general, in the face of jihadism?Habeck: There are probably many reasons for this, but I can give at least three. First, many Muslims have spoken out against jihadism, but they have been ignored by Western media. There was, for instance, a huge demonstration against violence carried out in the name of Islam is Morocco not too long ago (late 2005), but I don't remember reading anything about this is in the mainstream media.
Maybe the mainstream media didn't cover it, but here is a story about it from Lebanon's Daily Star. The story says that the demonstrators were protesting "Al-Qaeda's decision to kill two Moroccan hostages in Iraq," and were "holding banners and chanting 'Muslims are brothers. A Muslim does not kill his brother.'" So they were upset about Al-Qaeda killing Muslims. That is a phenomenon we have noted here many times: Muslims taking umbrage at Al-Qaeda killing fellow Muslims. But where are the protests against Al-Qaeda killing unbelievers? It is not enough for Muslims to "speak out against jihadism" only when its victims are Muslims, but to remain silent when they're non-Muslims -- not enough at least for non-Muslims.
I read memri.org and see many, many moderate Muslims speaking out against these guys every day. Second, in many countries these guys control the public arena and intimidate or even murder anyone who speaks out against them. The intimidation carried out in Western countries recently shows the power that just a few fanatics can have. Finally, there is a peculiar dynamic going on in the Islamic world: most people do not trust their governments or media to be reporting the truth, so they refuse to believe that the jihadis are carrying out these terrible atrocities. It's far more satisfying to believe that the government/US/Zionists are lying about all this rather than to confront the fact that someone has hijacked your religion for their own purposes.
Indeed. And it's also far more satisfying to pretend that the jihadists have "hijacked" an essentially peaceful Islam rather than confront the ugly reality of the deep roots that the jihad ideology has within Islam, even when one has acknowledged that the facts are otherwise.
Now certainly most Muslims aren't jihadists. Most probably do think of jihad primarily as a spiritual struggle. But to pretend that the jihadists don't have the intellectual upper hand in the Islamic world today is to undercut any chances for genuine Islamic reform, which can only proceed from an honest acknowledgment of the realities of Islamic doctrine, not from ignoring those elements and implying they don't exist.
Posted by Robert at May 17, 2007 4:34 PM
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"...Thus, Muslims are allowed to fight these unbelievers in a just jihad."
A "just jihad", did I read that right? How is taking innocent lives JUST?
Posted by: champ![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at May 17, 2007 6:41 PM
Is it just me or (based on this date's news entries) has this myriad of islamist entities completely flipped their ever-loving minds?
Amazing how it all seems orchestrated, all of it sounds like it came from someone whose "cheese slid completely off their cracker", and all of it is so beyond-absurd that only schizopaths, stoners, drunkards, and ditzes would think it made sense.
Oh well...nothing like inmates running the asylum.
What's next? "Cyrus the virus"?
OMG, LMAO...
at May 17, 2007 6:46 PM
Glenn Beck , Habeck What's the difference? Same ignorance same distortions .
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at May 17, 2007 7:05 PM
How is taking innocent lives JUST?
But of course this is just because the unbelievers or apostates are not innocent, as far as Islam is concerned.
According to Islamic law, the people in the WTC were not innocent because they didn't support Islam and openly supported a government and system that is antithetical to Islam.
Posted by: PMK at May 17, 2007 7:12 PM
Another reason why Muslims don't speak out.
They are told it is enough to leave Islam. Don't tell anyone. Cut back gradually on your visits to the mosque. Wean yourself from it gradually. Don't speak out about what jihadists are doing. Just protect yourself.
http://islam-watch.org/AliSina/Pakistani-Muslim-Apostasy-from-Islam.htm
"Good people are leaving Islam everywhere. They are not making any public announcements and there is no need for that either.
.....
if they live in an Islamic country and this could jeopardize their lives, it is better that they keep this a secret. In this way the foundation of Islam is weakened. There will come a day, and that day is not too far that this entire edifice of lies will fall."
Of course in the meantime the dhimmis will just have to watch their own backs.
Posted by: PMK at May 17, 2007 7:22 PM
It is difficult or impossible for reformist Muslims to create a new consensus effective against Islamic supremacism and militant jihad because from earliest times, the consensus of the most devout Muslims and of those most knowledgeable of the central Islamic doctrines has been based on a demonization and dehumanization of the Other. That demonization is expressed in the dogmas of Islamic supremacism and in the reliance on militant jihad to impose about Islamic sharia law.
Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews have all shown themselves capable in practice of dehumanizing and demonizing others, but none of these groups has, as does Islam, central texts whose main thrust in effect demands the demonization and dehumanization of the Other.
For reformist Muslims to ask Islam to accept the Other (the non-Muslim) as equal, might help reform some who think of themselves as Muslim, but Islam itself cannot drop its dehumanization of the Other without changing so radically as to become something else entirely. In other words, though Islam might, for some, be replaced with something else, Islam itself cannot incorporate respect for the Other (the non-Muslim) as an equal; the debasement of the non-Muslim is simply too deeply entrenched in the life of Muhammad, in the Quran, in the Hadith.
Posted by: traeh at May 17, 2007 7:28 PM
It is amazing that so many can read the same material, understand its meaning the same, with so few actually "getting it". At the very least a strong refusal to even admit what they know is true.
It's got to be killing the truly "peaceful" Muslims to know they have to side with the Infidel to actually have Peace.
Well, actually, it is killing them. About 50-100 a day in Iraq. Some never learn
A kinda KILL BILL Movie writ Large
Posted by: flowerknife_us at May 17, 2007 7:39 PM
The whole concept of a holy war being taught by any religion is dangerous. The hoi polloi lacks the sophistication to parse the dictum responsibly; it's nothing but an invitation for trouble. And in Islam's case, when taken along with all the other bloody quotes and exhortations to dominate, the violent result is inevitable.
Posted by: jewdog at May 17, 2007 7:41 PM
Am not sure what point the good Professor is attempting to make...Are Infidels or 'moderate' Muslims reassured by having finer points of Jihad
defined academically? Does Al Quaeda read her books??
Sorry luv,BOMBS & BULLETS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
at May 17, 2007 7:57 PM
"...(T)hey refuse to believe that the jihadis are carrying out these terrible atrocities."
I wonder if this "peculiar dynamic" is really at play and what evidence there is of it. I mean, we have all heard Muslims (and leftists) claim that the Twin Towers were brought down by Zionists or our own American government rather than by Islamists, but is it really possible that Muslims are incredulous regarding the thousands upon thousands of jihadist attacks in just the last few years? Is it really true that the silent Muslim masses--disinterested in protesting or condemning the daily horror of innumerable "terrible atrocities" perpetrated in the name of Allah--are complacent largely because they don't believe in the veracity of the reporting?
Frankly, I doubt it, and I note that one of the professor's other explanations for why Muslims don't protest violent jihad--that they are indeed averse but we aren't paying attention to their protestations--is simply BS, as Robert has shown regarding the only example she proffered.
At any rate, I wonder if anyone else here (Robert didn't exactly refute Habeck's assertion in this regard) similarly reckons that large numbers of Muslims are convinced that the rivers of blood running in virtually every corner of the globe are either contrived outright or caused by unbelievers rather than by Muslims.
Now I do believe that Dr. Habeck is spot on in describing the intimidation factor that serves as a firewall for Muslims who might be inclined to speak out, since we all know what happens within Islam to dissidents and free thinkers. But as for Muslims not speaking out because they don't believe Muslim atrocities are happening, I just don't buy it.
I admit that this may be more pervasive a problem than I suspect, however, and I wonder if anyone is sympathetic to the professor's assertion and can present any evidence in support. She maintains that the Muslim masses are largely distrustful of "their governments or media to be reporting the truth."
Huh? Distrustful? Even of al-Jazeera? Even of the Baghdad Bob School of Broadcast Journalism?
Well, I can certainly understand that.
Regards,
HAID
at May 17, 2007 8:24 PM
"These extremists make jihad into the central tenet of their religion, arguing that it is primarily about fighting both defensively and offensively (to spread the just laws of Islam)".
The conventional wisdom is that the "extreme" is aberrant in a belief-system. The truth is that the "extreme" is the purer form of any belief system and that is why they are generally tolerated and not angrily attacked by the "mainstream". I now believe we must judge any belief-system's meaning by its extreme, that which is tolerated (not angrily attacked) by the "moderates".
In the final analysis it is the "moderates" who are the foundation of the "extreme". For example, the Nazis needed the silent support of millions of "moderates" to exist.
Posted by: Frank at May 17, 2007 8:28 PM
If the violent Jihadists did not represent the purer form of Islam they would be angrily attacked by "mainstream" Muslims. The truth is that the "mainstream" Muslims are less motivated by "pure" Islam. People like Bin Laden are to Islam as Saint Francis is to Christianity, Gandhi to the Hindu view, Orthodox Jews to Judaism, etc. The "extreme" is the more devout expression a belief-system. The "moderates" are further from the core of a belief-system, though they tolerate the "extreme".
Posted by: Frank at May 17, 2007 8:37 PM
Frank
Gandhi was by no means a manifestation of Hinduism. If anything, he started and ran his own cult - without actually calling it that, and also invoking Hindu Gods like Rama to flaunt his piety. Hinduism has been reasonably aggressive in its own right, as far as ensuring that Righteousness prevailed. That's pretty much the essence of the Bhagvad Gita, as well as Hindu mythology in the Puranas, which pretty much mirrors ancient Greek mythology.
I also doubt that when battling in self defense, orthodox Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, et al would be livid at battling the Muslims. Sure, they are all peace loving, and don't want to be provocateurs. But for something like this, they'd either look in places like their religious texts for exceptions to the anti-violent messages, or ignore them altogether. Like the Constitution, religious texts aren't suicide pacts either.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at May 17, 2007 9:03 PM
If there's such thing as a Just Jihad...
then there's such a thing as Just Defense.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at May 17, 2007 9:18 PM
Robert notes:
"The hadith in which Muhammad makes a distinction between “greater jihad” of spiritual struggle and the “lesser jihad” of warfare doesn't appear in any of the hadith collections that Muslims consider most reliable."
Ms Armstrong, among many, is fond of trotting out this distinction but has never to my knowledge provided an exact citation.
Can anyone oblige?
Posted by: MBR at May 17, 2007 9:18 PM
Forget about "moderate" Moslems, the momentous struggle atm is with folks self-consciously on the side of Western Civilization.
It is as if most of them have severe reading comprehension disabilities. And you know something, maybe they do.
These folks are so intelligent, it cannot possibly be an innate lack of logical ability. Perhaps it is a lack of education in logic.
When one of these folks uses the word "islamo-fascism" they are loudly proclaiming their muddled thinking, their ignorance, and their lack of curiosity.
Perhaps the banality of it all makes it seem impossible to them.
Spencer's books are perfectly pitched. As with all good literature, the re-reading confirms the depth and clarity.
Is it sheer laziness? Has our civilization become this trite and worn out?
Posted by: Moonzoo
at May 17, 2007 9:27 PM
If moderates don't speak out more forcefully against the jihadists because if they do, the jihadists can easily portray them as unfaithful Muslims, and quote Qur'an and Sunnah to establish their position,i isn't this saying that the jihadists have the stronger theological argument for violent jihad?
If moderates are afraid to argue that Islamic scripture supports their definition of jihad as an internal struggle, because they know that the jihadists will win the argument using the same scriptures, they know in their hearts that the johadists are the more authentic and faithful Muslims.
Otherwise they wouldn't be afraid to confront the jihadists.
The bottom line is, Moderates don't have a leg to stand on.
Posted by: rational at May 17, 2007 9:46 PM
Instead of making contortionistic apologies for violent and despotic Islam, why don't these people ( Habeck, Young, D'Souza, et al) just vigorously defend our Civilization?
I've read the root texts of Islam, and find them crude, plagiarized, irrationalistic, contemptuous of anyone who will not bow to their anti-intellectual tenets, brutal, cruel, misogynistic, homophobic, petty, meddlesome in the extreme (how to wipe your butt, ad absurdum), medieval, superstitious, imperialistic and expansionistic.
What's to like?
Why all of this going-out-of-their-way to be freelance shieldbearer's for such despotic dogmatics?
Muslims should be ashamed for not stopping their own home-made maniacs.
And for not Reforming Islam's darker passages into something more humane and healthy.
Jefferson put it best:
"Oppose all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."
Don't coddle them. Or make lame excuses for them.
Call them to task.
Fight for human liberty.
Posted by: profitsbeard at May 17, 2007 9:49 PM
Infidel Pride-
Thanks for the clarification re Gandhi. I am not as familiar with Hindu belief as I should be, though I detect no positive mandates to violence with them.
I don't doubt non-Muslim religions sanction self-defence. However, I do not know of one that affirms violence against unbelievers, "or making them feel subdued" as permitted. Islam is the only one that permits that.
Islamic "moderates" will say violence against unbelievers or "making them feel subdued", or Jew-hating, is an "extreme" interpretation of Islam. I think it is the pure form of the belief-system. It is in the Islamic "extremes" that we find the meaning of the belief-system (actually the meaning of any belief system). We must judge a belief-system by its extremes.
Posted by: Frank at May 17, 2007 9:57 PM
Yeah, Ghandi was passive to the point of suicide. Not the way we instinctively operate under duress.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at May 17, 2007 10:00 PM
I read the interview with Dr. Habeck this morning at frontpagemag.com and printed it out. I dissected it and put voluminous notes in the margins to indicate my exasperation with her thinking. Clearly, she is probably fairly representative of our foreign policy elites ensconsed within academia. She has not shown evidence of having the depth that Robert or Serge Trifkovic have with respect to Islamic scriptures and jurisprudence.
I suspect that her department has to tread carefully on these subjects, since the shadow of our State Department probably casts a shadow all the way to Baltimore...
at May 17, 2007 10:09 PM
Most of this thread discusses the substance of Habeck's book, I found these comments most inaccurate offensive and fraudulant. And if I were Robert or Hugh, I'd give her a good verbal thrashing!
"After two years of waiting, I decided that academia wasn't interested in this issue and if a book on the subject was going to be written, I'd have to do it.
... So there are no academics who have the training, intellectual tools and desire to put together religion and 9/11.
Excuse me? I don't know what degree(s) any of the authors in JW's Books section have, and frankly, I don't give a hoot. Whether or not they are in "academia" doesn't lessen their importance or place into doubt the truth of the matters discussed or the depth of the analysis. They speak to the truth with better insight and courage than this woman does.
Each of them have as much, if not more, "training and intellectual tools ( and honesty) to put together religion and 9/11" than her.
Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at May 17, 2007 10:21 PM
Miss_Anthrope-
My point re Gandhi was re extremes. Most of the "extremes" (always a distinct minority in every belief-system) in non-Muslim religions (Hindu, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish) tend to condemn all violence as evil-without exception. Only the Muslim extreme (also a distinct minority) advocates violence as good. At the core of Islam there are definitely positive permissions to violence and those permissions will never go away and "moderates" in Islam will never tolerate pacifism. In fact, any pacifist "extreme" will be persecuted by "moderates" in Islam.
At the core of the Islamic belief-system is violence. The violent "extreme" is pure Islam.
Posted by: Frank at May 17, 2007 10:22 PM
If jihad as "spiritual struggle" is so important, why is it the primary meaning in only 3% of the usage of the word "jihad" in the hadith?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015139.php
For an example of using statistics, look at the question: what is the real jihad, the jihad of inner, spiritual struggle or the jihad of war? Let’s turn to Bukhari (the Hadith) for the answer, as he repeatedly speaks of jihad. In Bukhari 97% of the jihad references are about war and 3% are about the inner struggle. So the statistical answer is that jihad is 97% war and 3% inner struggle. Is jihad war? Yes—97%. Is jihad inner struggle? Yes—3%. So if you are writing an article, you can make a case for either.
For crying out loud, if I talk about, say, baseball 97% of the time and football 3% of the time, which sport are you going to assume is the more important to me, baseball or football?
In this case, it's just as Nietzsche said, "Error is cowardice". Cowardice not to face the facts.
Posted by: venividivici at May 17, 2007 10:23 PM
From reading all this, one is left wondering why "moderate" Muslims do not speak up about the traditional Islamic practice of sneaking into non-Islamic lands and murdering unbelievers there so as to force Islam upon the inhabitants there. If these "moderate" Muslims were truly so 'moderate' one wonders why they tacitly continue to permit this Islamic practice to continue without commentary (they should be outraged by it).
Could you imagine moving into someone else's country and bringing into it an ideology that teaches the killing of the persons in that country (all the while pretending to be friendly to the citizens of that country?). The very thought of such a thing is revolting; yet that is exactly what Muslims immigrating into western democracies are doing every day. I find it blood curdling.
If the "moderate" Muslims were so bloody 'moderate' wouldn't they would speak up about this sort of thing? Perhaps they would also publicly call into Islam's practice of according itself the right to attack and kill non-Muslims in non-Islamic lands and the fact that Muslims have absolutely no right whatsoever to do such things.
Until I hear "moderate" Muslims condemn such Islamic practices, I will continue to remain skeptical about the existence of true "moderate" Muslims.
Posted by: pythagoras at May 17, 2007 10:29 PM
Ms. Haybeck makes the same mistake all do in not equating it is not jihad, but the benefits of jihad which nurtures jihad.
If Hamas is driving out Jews in murder, then it benefits those Muslims with their inner struggle as they get Gush Katif in billion dollar floral industries.
If al Qaeda drives out America from Iraq, then the common Shia and Sunni factions become kings of their own realm.
If Spanish Islamists blow up trains in Spain, then all Spanish Muslims all gain a new fear and respect from the Spanish.
Until people start concluding that jihad benefits all Muslims in power and finance "even if they are not taking part in it directly", that indirectly the entire Muslim community is making jihad either by silence like CAIR or by intimidation like Keith Ellison.
All intimidation just like nuclear missiles or vast armies benefit those peoples who are behind them.
at May 17, 2007 10:30 PM
Unanswerable. And it will not be answered. Instead, the Grand Strategy in the War of Ideas today, in and around Washington, is to play the game of Let's Pretend with Muslims, so as to win the hearts and win the minds of the "moderate" Muslims (vide "Ten Things to Think When Thinking About Moderate Muslims"). It's in the air. It's among the higher-ups, among generals, for example. But among the captains and the majors and the colonels who have served in Iraq, and certainly among most of the soldiers who have, through experience, unbrainwashed themselves about the "mission" and about the essential wonderfulness or just plain common decency of Muslims, the thoughts and understandings, thank god, are far more realistic, and quite otherwise.
Is Mary Habeck by any chance now at the Johns Hopkins School of... not International Studies, but sometthing far grander, Advanced International Studies, where that Middle East expert Paul Wolfowitz was once Dean, and where the new head is charming, intelligent Fouad Ajami, the one who used to smite Said hip and thigh, but who on his own trip to Iraq found himself stirred elementally by his visit with Sistani, called his book on Iraq "The Foreigner's Gift" instead of, as it ought to have been called, "The Infidel's Gift," and clearly, like other "good" merely "cultural" or Muslim-for-identification-purposes Muslims, listened to a bit too much, and neither Fouad Ajami, still less Vali Nasr or others of that ilk, could conceive, could bear to hear, of the only policy that makes sense: to educate Infidels, and then to create the conditions that will force a sufficient number of Muslims as well, to recognize that the political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral failures of Islamic states and societies suffused with Islam are a direct result of Islam itself.
Posted by: Hugh at May 17, 2007 10:39 PM
It would be fascinating to gather together the signers of the St. Petersburg Declaration, including Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan, people born and raised in Islam (or is one simply struck with total amnesia the minute one becomes an apostate from Islam, and become completely unreliable narrators, as Muslim spokesmen appear to believe?), and see whether they think Robert Spencer has understood Islam better, as a Belief-System, or that Mary Habeck has done so.
I already know the answer. It wasn't even close.
Posted by: Hugh at May 17, 2007 10:42 PM
where's the proof that most muslims believe jihad to be an inner struggle,WHO is it that speaks for all muslims who believe jihad is an inner struggle?
Is it the same person that preaches to the ones that believe jihad to mean war fare.
Is it the guy that perhaps teaches the view of jihad depending on what believers are in the crowd that day?
Like i keep saying the deafening silence says a lot.
Everyone seems to keep saying what islam is and isn't ,except muslims.
Or do they say what they believe?
It's only getting harder by the day to convice people like me that islam can even remotely reckognize equality or the desire to live amongst all others.
No matter who says what about islam i refer back to thier guide through life and i see it begets violence at every turn.
I see everywhere you turn an establishment to teach muslims how to hate and to kill.
They are taught to be racist and embrace supremecy.
These are thier laws and thier lives.
You know if you have "police" in your country chasing you down with switches and clubs and have the ability to kick your butt on the spot.....
maybe just maybe you could think something is quite wrong with that.
Some would say thats all they know,how they were raised.Well that doesn't pan out for those who have moved to the west or even born in the west.
These are the people silent.The ones who should have the knowledge and the ability to say there is something wrong with islam,islam has gone over the edge.Been over the edge....whatever.
One of these peoples main concerns is that the west steals from them,while oppressing them.You hear it all the time.
When the facts are they spend thier money on war,they don't allow anything "unislamic".Didn't muhammad die pennyless? (i don't know)
To see an untouched pristine islam is to see the days of scimatars.Nothing new ...ever. All thier wealth (for the most part)and over a billion people and nothing much to speak of for it except millions dead and millions homeless and dieing.
All they have and all they lost was by the sword and they still wield it to regain what they lost and more.
People can hem and haw but it's just heming and hawing....it's futile.
In 1400 yrs all the west has managed to bring islam is advanced weoponry and not to be as harsh all the time.
Democracy or not islam is still all encompassing.
No matter what anyone else says.
Until the silence is broken and over one billion muslims say what jihad is,an inner struggle, and until the day they practice what they preach,jihad is an inner struggle,they are ONE to me.
Why these people can't feel it in themselves to stand up and risk it all for thier sons and daughters and thier kids knowing the beatings and rape and death threats is WRONG for a peaceful religion.
The amount of innocent muslims killed by muslim who didn't stand up to thier "hijackers" died for nothing.They died for a point to be made by the lunatics,they died as tools.....and they don't see this is wrong.
No other religion or Nation does these things,not those who have pulled themselves out of it.
This is islam this is allah this is muhammad.I DON'T WANT IT......EVER.
And i don't care about the muslims feelings they lost any chance of my caring the longer the silence went on,the more attcks on innocent people that piled up.
No voices.
No what islam really thinks.
In fact polls that show the majority if not close to it believe islam is doing the proper thing,allahs will.
I suppose these muslims that feel jihad is an inner struggle are the "moderates" too huh?
Another topic to pass the time till reality rolls around.
Posted by: Dar al-harb at May 17, 2007 11:40 PM
"If moderates don't speak out more forcefully against the jihadists because if they do, the jihadists can easily portray them as unfaithful Muslims, and quote Qur'an and Sunnah to establish their position,i isn't this saying that the jihadists have the stronger theological argument for violent jihad?"
Posted by: rational
That or the lunatics have always been in charge of telling what the TRUE view is in islam and that muslims are really weak and cowardly for being subdued for so long by so "few".
Same difference i think though.
It's the imams that say whats what and the mullahs,who teaches them?
Who funds it all?
The "prisoners" that are the umma do what it's told it is thier duty,it's implanted from birth into thier fresh and innocent brains .....they are to die in the cause of allah.In any way and fashion......JIHAD.
If they are not in the position to defeat the enemy wait till you can.Lie to the infedel then stab them in the back.
Infiltrate and lay in wait.
BE SILENT.
at May 18, 2007 12:13 AM
Shakespeare had the solution. But instead of lawyers, imans.
Or maybe imans in addition to lawyers would be better.
Posted by: Jimmy Bones at May 18, 2007 1:32 AM
Robert said
Now certainly most Muslims aren't jihadists. Most probably do think of jihad primarily as a spiritual struggle.
Boy, those are two assumptions that I would really love to see tested for validity.
Posted by: special_guest at May 18, 2007 2:37 AM
I agree with the posters who remain skeptical about the alleged prevalence and importance of the inner jihad.
Without evidence directly pertaining to the question, such as from polls of Muslims' opinions on this question, we have no reason to believe (or deny) it. However, it is reasonable to suppose that prayer would be included under most Muslims' concept of inner jihad. About 61% of British Muslims said they prayed at least once a day.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/246.pdf
Suppose that, on a questionnaire, most Muslims would agree with the proposition that "jihad is primarily an inner struggle". Suppose also that they are being honest and have understood the question. Then what?
-It does not change the fact that the "inner" aspect of jihad (striving, struggle, exertion) is only one part--there is also jihad of the tongue, pen, hand, and sword. Islam is not a pacificist ideology. Even the most extremist apologists will admit that Islam allows for "defensive" jihad of the sword. The fact that a Muslim may be engaged in inner jihad does not necessarily, nor likely, mean that they do not strive socially, politically, financially, or in some cases militarily, to defend, spread, or promote Islam.
-The inner jihad is not necessarily disconnected with the outer forms of jihad. Indeed, to carry out the outer forms of jihad, there must be "inner" factors such as motivation, beliefs, and goals.
-The inner jihad is not necessarily benign as far as non-Muslims are concerned. Indeed, the Koran--the core of all Muslims' beliefs--deals primarily with extreme hostility and aversion towards disbelief and disbelievers (non-Muslims).
-It does not change the fact that most Muslims want sharia law to be imposed in Islamic countries and that most want those countries together to be all ruled under a Caliph. (As shown in polls).
-It does not change the fact that most Muslims in the west want critics of Islam to be criminally prosecuted and punished.
-It does not change the fact that the majority of Muslims are quite willing to elect hard-line Islamic governments when given the chance. And why not? It is primarily non-Muslims, not Muslims, who are affected aversely by Islamic governments. The rights of non-Muslims are simply not very high on most Muslims' list of priorities. As the Muslim population grows rapidly, Islamization increases and the likelihood of Islamic governments being established in formerly non-Muslim regions increases.
-Regarding the "greater" vs "lesser" jihad distinction, even if the hadith in which that distinction was made was widely-accepted among Muslim scholars (from what I have read, it is not), those labels are of no discernible consequence, aside from propaganda purposes. Putting the Orwellian label "lesser" on physical jihad fighting does nothing to reduce its real impact on the non-Muslims targetted by it.
Bottom Line: Whether or not Muslims' endorse publicly or privately the proposition that "jihad is primarily an inner struggle" is of no real positive consequence for non-Muslims. If anything, the notion gives a false sense of security to those non-Muslims who lack the time to study Islam and jihad more thoroughly.
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at May 18, 2007 4:36 AM
"....to educate Infidels, and then to create the conditions that will force a sufficient number of Muslims as well, to recognize that the political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral failures of Islamic states and societies suffused with Islam are a direct result of Islam itself".-Hugh
In the final analysis, the violent Jihadists are right in their assertion that they represent true Islam. The "moderates" tolerate-apologize for them because there is no way (short of total rejection of Islam) to remove the core beliefs that are represented by the "extreme", dogmas that will never go away. Bin Laden and Bin Laden types are the Saint Francis and the Franciscans of Islam. Yes, they are the extreme, but only because they are more devout.
The core of Islam is violence, deception, Jew-hating, etc. (though these things are not generally practiced by the less devout "moderates"). That's its essence. Many want to pretend that this is not reality. It is the reality of Islam.
Islam is just another of the many Imperialist systems (in this case Arab Imperialism) that rationalizes supremacist attitudes and the destruction of some lately "indigenous culture". It is the Arabs' "Manifest Destiny". The belief-system is buttressed with costumes and rituals, etc. that dress it up as "religion". But its just another rationalization for Imperialism, and I think it is unreformable. The "extreme" are right: they represent true Islam.
People are not fooled anymore. Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion that permits violence, and "moderates" are simply less devout Muslims. It is impossible for this "religion" to produce a Saint Francis or a Gandhi. It is what it is.
at May 18, 2007 5:55 AM
Actually, I think Islam should be part of an Imperialist Studies Program at universities. It should be studied along with other religions-ideologies for its use as a tool for removing-dominating or destroying "indigenous cultures". One day that will happen.
For an assortment of political reasons, it is pretended that this pattern is limited to the West. Actually, its a universal pattern among humans, including the Aztec, Manchus, Spaniards, Ottomans, Romans, America, Arabs, etc. (BTW, in many ways British Imperialism (I'm Irish-so this hard to say) was one of the milder forms of Imperialism.)
The pristine core of the belief-system is represented by its extremes (as are all belief-systems). I don't think it is reformable.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 6:24 AM
At some time in the future Islam will be seen as just another one of the many Imperialist-Rationalization-Systems that are used by humans to subdue, colonize, destroy "indigenous cultures". (After such systems are successful, their history is usually written by people from the system and myths are created as to how it benefited the subdued.) The current "extreme" in Islam is the pristine core of the belief-system. Islam is just another "Manifest Destiny" rationalization system. It's part of the human problem.
Islam must be the subject of rigorous critical analysis and studied as part of an Imperialist Studies Program. One day in the future that will happen.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 6:42 AM
"to win the hearts and win the minds "
...what an impossible goal and useless phrase..(to those of us who know)...
at May 18, 2007 8:38 AM
"Maybe the mainstream media didn't cover it, but here is a story about it from Lebanon's Daily Star. The story says that the demonstrators were protesting "Al-Qaeda's decision to kill two Moroccan hostages in Iraq," and were "holding banners and chanting 'Muslims are brothers. A Muslim does not kill his brother.'" So they were upset about Al-Qaeda killing Muslims. That is a phenomenon we have noted here many times: Muslims taking umbrage at Al-Qaeda killing fellow Muslims. But where are the protests against Al-Qaeda killing unbelievers? It is not enough for Muslims to "speak out against jihadism" only when its victims are Muslims, but to remain silent when they're non-Muslims -- not enough at least for non-Muslims."
You might want to take a look at this :
http://www.bladi.net/3891-juillet-depart-du-train-de-la-vie-et-de-l-amitie-de-casablanca.html
http://www.maroc-hebdo.press.ma/MHinternet/Archives_597/html_597/surles.html
http://www.maec.gov.ma/en/f-com.asp?num=1669&typ=dr
Robert, not only were there Muslim demonstrations against the Madrid bombings in Morocco but there are still commemorations and solidarity movements that continue till today.
Stop misleading your cult.
The big problem with your thinking is that you view humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals, and as you might well know this is how a racist mindset works. You might argue that Islam is not a race but that is not the point. The point is that you cannot go beyond the collective thinking and you dismiss those individuals who seem different from the group by saying that they practice taqqiya. I might add for you that Judaism is not a race either, but this did not stop many people from killing jews for what they are. You know it has not been such a long time ago that your dear western civilization killed 6 million Jews and 58 other millions of people during World War II. You might say that it is preposterous to link you to what the Nazis did and what Stalin did. I know it is, but since you like to link all Muslims in one lump and to divide this world between Muslims and Westerners, you'll at least allow me to do the same with regards to you.
Do you understand how ethnocentric your point is now ? If not, you might seriously want to consider doing college all over again.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:02 AM
"You know it has not been such a long time ago that your dear western civilization killed 6 million Jews and 58 other millions of people during World War II."
Posted by: sublimer
...I guess you might say we policed our own, unlike Muslims who refuse to police their own...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 18, 2007 9:09 AM
"Bin Laden and Bin Laden types are the Saint Francis and the Franciscans of Islam. Yes, they are the extreme, but only because they are more devout."
Frank,
I think that if we should make a historical comparison, Ben Laden is more of a Martin Luther. They both are both puritans in the sense that they both want to reform or "purify" the religion so that it is devoid of any cultural, folkloric or superstitious beliefs. This comparison might shock some protestants but people should realize that, although Ben Laden is a monster, a lot of Catholics thought the same about Martin Luther. He was very dogmatic, a huge antisemite and his movement led to the century old war of religion in Europe. You might also want to look at the puritanism of the Jansenists in France for example. If you read Pascal's letters (Provinciales), you'll see how the jansenists were at least as dogmatic and as puritan as the Islamists of today. In it he criticizes the debauchery and hypocrisy of the Catholics, the Jesuits and the Casuits.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:21 AM
"...I guess you might say we policed our own, unlike Muslims who refuse to police their own..."
Killing 6 million Jews is policing ??????? what are you, a neonazi ?
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:23 AM
How many Millions have Muslims killed?...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 18, 2007 9:24 AM
by the way, The western world will clean the mess the Muslims are creating...it may take a while ....however...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 18, 2007 9:27 AM
exsgtbrown,
Wow !!! I really thought I did not understand your policing statement, but your reply to my question makes it seem that for you, it is ok to kill 6 million jews in the name of "policing" !!!!!! And all you have to say is a compare and contrast murders committed by the West and Islam. Go back and read my initial statement. I don't believe in a west/islam dichotomy. I blame Robert for diving the world in such a manichaean fashion. But since you seem to be part of the cult, I'll answer your question.
Muslims killed way fewer people than the west did. Do you realize what 58 million people is ? That was done in the span of a decade too.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:34 AM
Jefferson put it best:
"Oppose all forms of tyranny over the mind of man."
Don't coddle them. Or make lame excuses for them.
Call them to task.
Fight for human liberty.
Posted by: profitsbeard
I stand with profitsbeard and Jefferson.
Shakespeare had the solution. But instead of lawyers, imans. Or maybe imans in addition to lawyers would be better.Posted by: Jimmy BonesPosted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Housesfuggetaboutit - da mullahs got to go!
at May 18, 2007 9:46 AM
Islamic violence will be conquered....as it always has been....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 18, 2007 9:50 AM
"Islamic violence will be conquered....as it always has been...."
It is impossible to have an intelligent debate with bullies. Where are the smarter Jihad Watchers ?
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:52 AM
Sublimer-
At first I thought your comparison does not fit, but in many ways it does fit. Luther wanted to get back to basics. The basics in Islam are Muhammad's last (chronological) command. That is true Islam. The Arab Imperialist machine is trying to make a comeback in our time on the basis of true Islam.
-------------------
On another note...I find it of interest that Protestantism in Europe became more state dominated (Church of England, Lutheran Churches in Germany, etc.)than Catholicism. It has always been very difficult for the state to use the Catholic Church for state purposes. Even Hitler had to recognize that, so too the Communists.
The full separation of Church and state came in America. Many Protestants in America fled the state churches in Europe and they are very independent of state power in America. We owe the flowering of self-government in America to the Protestants who fled state dominated churches in Europe.
---------------
Click on the Bin Laden cartoon for my prediction of how this crisis with Islam will end one day in the future....
http://www.cards-n-toons.com/view.php?card=humor_bin
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 9:56 AM
Frank,
Just two disagreements :
"The Arab Imperialist machine is trying to make a comeback in our time on the basis of true Islam."
This is conspiratorial thinking. You make it seem like all Arabs want to dominate the word under the banner of islam. First, not all Arabs are Muslim. Second only 15 percent of Muslims are arabs.
"We owe the flowering of self-government in America to the Protestants who fled state dominated churches in Europe."
No, we owe the flowering of self-government to enlightenment thinkers who were for the most part deists, pantheists or spinozists. Check Thomas Paine's "the age of Reason".
For a look at the puritanism of some protestants in the US, you may want to look at the history of Salem, MA.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 10:06 AM
Frank -
Totally with you on your point...just trying to state that those extreme pacifist philosophies doesn't really wash with our US DNA.
Before that creates a major stir, I'm just saying in fight or flight I think many Americans would fight. We are ridiculed for our redneck mentality over guns, religion, et al...so I'm betting fight.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at May 18, 2007 10:09 AM
As for :
"That is true Islam."
I don't know which Islamic school of jurisprudence you belong to (maybe the ben laden school) but that remains your opinion. It is not mine.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 10:09 AM
I'm not asserting a conspiracy at all. I'm just noting that interests tend to work together to an end (based on a common belief), though that sometimes makes events look coordinated. I don't buy conspiracy theories where more than a handful of people (3 or 4) are involved.
Islam is at its core the engine of Arab Imperialism. Even some people in former Indian territory (Pakistan)-many of whose ancestors were exterminated by Arabs-now bow to Mecca. It's a terrific Imperialist system. The core is in Arabia.
Islam is just another Imperialist rationalization system. It began as Arab Imperialism, it will end that way.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 10:16 AM
I had the opportunity to listen to Dr. Haybeck speak in early 2006 in the grand surroundings of Saddam's Al Faw Palace in Baghdad. The 18th Airborne Corps Commander, LTG Vines simply could not get enough of her and invited her over on more than one occasion. She even stayed on to tour the country, (mostly Kurdistan if I remember correctly) and give the various commanders on the ground the "no kidding" answers to all their Islamic and cultural questions. In her defense, I consider her heads and shoulders above the Esposito's of the world but a key statement she mad just never sat right with me. She asserted that after the Islamic defeat outside Vienna in 1683, that the traditional concept of jihad simply vanished! More or less, Muslims chose to block it out and lived in relative harmony until Sayyid Qutb came along that is. What a load of Hoooey! I've met and conversed with the dhimmi people of the Nineveh plane first hand, the jihad has never ceased to exist.
Posted by: James son of Zebedee at May 18, 2007 10:17 AM
What part of jihad do this John Hopkins professor does not get?
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 18, 2007 10:18 AM
sublimer-
I hold to my opinion. You believe as you please on the issue.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 10:18 AM
"Islam is at its core the engine of Arab Imperialism.
You can definitely look at it that way in the sense that Islam started in the Arabian peninsula, and people pray towards Mecca.
"Even some people in former Indian territory (Pakistan)-many of whose ancestors were exterminated by Arabs"
who were the exterminated ancestors ? You defintely know that there is an ethnic difference between Arabs and Indo-Pakistanis ? Arabs do not live in Pakistan. Most of the locals in northern India converted, originally Buddhists or Hindus, were converted by sufis, and sufism is the most pacifist philosophical branch of Islam.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 10:28 AM
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/moghal_atro.html
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 10:45 AM
I would rather suggest the more respectable History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon. But for any history you can always find two subjective tales, and it is up to you to see what is more accurate and what is mere revisionism. But even in the link you posted, you'll realize that the man in charge of the conquest of India is Muhammad Ghori. He is not arab but Persian. The same thing happens with the conquest of spain. By the time Islam reaches Morocco, the man who leads the charge to spain is not arab but Berber (a local). This means that Arab imperialism was not the major force, but it was the religion itself which was embraced quickly. That said, what are the degrees of persuasion and force during religious conquests becomes subject to debate. It's the same with Christianity. If initial conversions were more pacifist, later ones (think the Americas) were particularly violent.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:00 AM
In the same website you referred me to, they purport that the Taj Mahal was originally a hindu temple. Now, if that is not historical revisionism, I don't know what is.
http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_history/modern/taj_oak.html
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:06 AM
http://www.islam-watch.org/AlamgirHussain/india.htm
The Persians were also victims of Arab Imperialism and they too bow to Mecca.
Islam is the engine of Arab Imperialism. Such rationalization systems are plentiful in history, making the conquest, exploitation, even genocide of some recently "indigenous people" holy. The Aztec did it to the Toltec, the Spaniard to the Aztec, the Arab to the Spaniard, the Ottoman to the Greek, the Europeans to the "Indians" of North America (who were busy killing each other), the Manchu in China, etc. It is a pattern of history.
For political reasons, it is pretended that this is just a West European phenomena. Actually, the pattern of Imperialism is history and is repeated again and again and again everywhere. Only the infantile or frauds pretend that they are the only group (ethnic, race, Arab, American, Aztec, etc.) that are above this reprehensible feature of human nature.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 11:15 AM
However, when we humans screw people we humans always have to have a good reason, a rationalization, often a "holy" reason for our marvelous establishment of nations and empires. Every nation, every empire in history has been accomplished by violence, and that often means the extermination of some lately "indigenous people" or "indigenous culture". The Arabs are no different.
A group's claims to righteousness or to "victim" status usually depends on whether they are the fuckor or fuckee at any given time (to borrow some lawyer talk-LOL). The problem is a human problem.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 11:33 AM
I see your point Frank, but you are generalizing quite a lot. Of course, conquests are part of history. We are living in a Pax Americana today but when history repeats itself, it might repeat structures but rare is it when it offers exact replicas. The Romans for example conquered most of the Mediterranean basin, but this did not mean that most of the subjugated were forced to speak latin or worship Roman deities. Most of the Aztecs today are catholics who speak spanish. Most of the nations conquered by Muslims now follow the Muslim religion but they all speak different languages. The Berber speak berber, the Persians speak persians, the Pakistanis speak urdu and the malaysians speak malay. The Greek is still Greek and the Spaniard is still (after 800 years of occupation) still Catholic and hispaphone. So I see what you mean but you need a little more nuance in your analysis. talking about manifest and historical destiny is often a way of using religious motifs to explain things scientifically.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:36 AM
"The Arabs are no different."
Of course they are no different. There I totally agree.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:39 AM
Islam is/was the engine of Arab Imperialism. Those are its roots. I stand by my view. It began as Arab Imperialism, it will end that way when pluralism is permitted in Saudi Arabia. However, the Arabs are no better or no worse than other Imperialists in history. Islam is just another Imperialist-rationalization-system.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 11:41 AM
To go a little deeper, you can say that The "Father" is an imperialist-rationalization-system. Whenerver you say "in the name of....." you are acting on behalf of a higher order to perpetuate its lineage. Conquest "In the name of God....." but also during colonial periods "in the name of civilization". Victor Hugo wrote, "France is the new missionary of civilization in europe and the world". and today "In the name of democracy...." Whether the reference to the signifier is sincere or not depends on the faith of the warrior. whether they really believe in God, Civilization, or Democracy. The problem becomes methodological. Whether to propogate the "in the name of..." you believe that the end justifies the means. If one does, one is bound to use violence.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:51 AM
When I say everyone, I mean everyone, including the USA. However, I don't think Americans will want an Imperial destiny in the future. The German Panzer General Heinz Guderian once made a comment (after WW2) re America that I think was insightful. He said, "Americans treat war like a football game. They like to win and then go home and celebrate". He predicted that we would be the first great power to decline overseas empire-and want to go home.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian
at May 18, 2007 11:52 AM
Well Rome went from being a republic and became an empire without consciously declaring a change of status. But Rome's decline started once it became apparent that it was an empire. That is the big debate between traditional republicans (who believe that the US should remain a Republic) and neocons (who believe in one world government, another euphemism for empire). If America can resist the temptation, it will be the first superpower in history to do so. will it or not? For now, at least, it doesn't look so. That's why I believe that someone like Ron Paul can be a significant candidate in the next elections.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:59 AM
"If America can resist the temptation, it will be the first superpower in history to do so. will it or not"?
I think we will resist the temptation. Republics and empire are incompatible. Most Americans do not want anything to do with empire. I think we have to consciously walk away from an Imperial role. I think we agree here.
As per Islam, I think it will remain a dangerously intolerant and supremacist belief-system until such time as full religious pluralism and tolerance exist in Saudi Arabia. Until that time, it will remain, at its core, in its root, the engine of Arab Imperialism.
In any case, I don't want empire for America or to bow to one.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 12:24 PM
"As per Islam, I think it will remain a dangerously intolerant and supremacist belief-system until such time as full religious pluralism and tolerance exist in Saudi Arabia."
You are combining two things. I agree with you that the radicalization of islam will die out once there is full religious pluralism and tolerance in Saudi Arabia. But saudi Arabia is only one country. There are many other Muslim countries where Christians, Muslims and Jews live in peace. Generalizations just obfuscate the problem. We got to be more precise at the risk of becoming pedantic experts.
The way I look at it, a lot of the Islamic supremacists bark since they are incapable of biting. They talk about annihilating people as if they could ever do so. It's like the mating frog which doubles in size or the frightened cat which seems to inflate when getting ready to fight. But let's be serious here. There have been terrorist attacks carried out by islamists, but we should not forget that the U.S. has bases practically all around the world. The American embassy in bagdad is as big as the vatican. If you think that the U.S. is in Iraq to spread democracy, you're being a bit naive. american foreign policy these last years has been abandoned to lobbies and corporations who fight for "america's special interests". Think about what these special intrests are. It is the "american oil" which happens to lie under arab soil. It is also the need to satisy the stakeholders of the industrial military complex. America produces more weapons than any nation in the world. If these weapons are not used, it will cripple an important sector of the economy. so what do you do ? you need to use them and look for a pretext to use them. You should take heed of eisenhower's warning at his farewell address :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
at May 18, 2007 12:42 PM
There is another very natural reason why the so called "vast majority of peaceful Muslims" do not actively speak out against or otherwise try to thwart jihadists: it is one thing to passively opt out of participation in one's religious traditions, but quite another to actively defy them.
For example, take any number of non-observant Christians you may know, who where baptized as infants, and grew up going to church and Sunday school, but then fell out of or maybe even consiously rejected those habits as adults. Maybe these people are even highly critical or skeptical of their born faith.
Now, ask them to urinate on a cross, or an image of Christ and the Virgin Mary. No matter how non-observant, cynical, or even skeptical they may have grow to be, most would recoil at the idea of doing something that is so obviously against the faith of their birth.
Jihad is an ideological cornerstone of Islam - a fact that is known to the vast majority of Muslims. And of course, like most rules, traditions, and customs of Islam, jihad has a spiritually mandatory quality about it for Muslims - it is established by Allah himself in the Koran and was practiced by way of example to all Muslims by that Most Perfect Muslim, Mohammed. Given these factors, can we really expect Muslims to actively confront the jihadists whose actions are, in fact, traditionally and genuinely Islamic?
The non- or less-observant Muslims may not actively support jihadists; they may wish privately that the jihadists would stop killing people; they may dread the news of every attack, knowing that each one puts their own future and freedom in doubt. But to ask Muslims to actively defy jihadist activities - nevermind asking them to directly collaborate with infidels at the expense of fellow Muslims - is akin to asking Muslims to piss on an fundamental aspect of their faith - Islam.
Couple that with the physical intimidation and dangers cited in this post, and it's no wonder the silence from all those peaceful Muslims is so deafening.
Don't hold your breath waiting for their help. We're on our own.
Posted by: orangeducks at May 18, 2007 12:51 PM
orangeducks,
I second much of what you say. A lot of Muslims just go about living their own lives just like any other human would do. That does not mean that there is no criticism of Jihadis in the Arab and Muslim media. If the silence is deafening, it is because you do not receive it. If only you spoke Arabic or at least French, you'll realize that there are daily articles that tackle this same problem. Check out this article :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2034041,00.html
The problem I often see is that most Islam critics like Robert Spencer get their news from MEMRI but this "news organization" created by an ex-Mossad officer has been discredited for manipulating news and for being awfully selective with the translations it offers to non arab speakers. Even in the case of the late Mickey Hamas incident. (something Spencer - who apparently speaks arabic completely ignored willfully or incompetently) Check this :
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2007/05/arabic_under_fire.html
One last disagreement; You say, like spencer, that the jihadis are the only truly islamic people. That is akin to saying that the only truly jewish or christian people are those who follow all the precepts and maxims of the OT and the NT. If that is true, real Christians and Jews would be enslaving people, killing disbelievers, etc....There are peaceful passages in the OT and the NT just like there is in the Koran, but since there are also violent passages, you imply that true believers *have* to follow these too.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 1:13 PM
"One last disagreement; You say, like spencer, that the jihadis are the only truly islamic people."
Robert does NOT claim, sublimer, that the jihadis are the only true Muslims, and you know it, because you're here ad nauseum. If you intend to mount a defense of your characterization, please supply quotes.
Regards,
HAID
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at May 18, 2007 2:39 PM
Sublimer...Possibly you are not aware that Islamic literature states that jihad is an 'obligation' incumbant on every muslim. This is directly from Allah. I have posted the following several times but it is always pertinant: From Imam Bukhari: "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."
Please note the last two lines...there is nothing like this in Christian literature...
Posted by: duh_swami at May 18, 2007 2:41 PM
Haid,
What do you insinuate from this passage from this particular article :
"The hadith in which Muhammad makes a distinction between “greater jihad” of spiritual struggle and the “lesser jihad” of warfare doesn't appear in any of the hadith collections that Muslims consider most reliable. Jihad understood as warfare against unbelievers in order to establish the hegemony of Islamic law has much greater support in Islamic scripture, tradition, and historical practice -- and leading jihad theorists including Hasan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Abdullah Azzam, Osama bin Laden’s friend and intellectual mentor and co-founder with him of Al-Qaeda, challenge the authenticity of the saying in their writings."
Check the list of scholars he cites as worthy to understand what jihad really means in Islam. Isn't he implying that those who believe jihad is primarily an inner struggle don't understand their religion or are not really muslims ? Instead of citing Hasan al-Banna he can cite his brother Gamal. But he chooses not to do so.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 3:05 PM
duh_swami,
check this website :
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 3:09 PM
duh_swami,
Regarding the Jihad, the reliability depends on which school of thought you come from. as for "This is directly from Allah". No it is not. It is from Bukhari purportedly recounting something Muhammad might have said. In Islam only the Quran comes straight from God. and even this is debated, especially among the Mutazillites.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 3:19 PM
sublimer: You'e full of sh*t, my friend.
In India alone, Islamic invaders wiped out over 80 MILLION Hindus and that does not include the number of Buddhists slaughtered there (a religion which interestingly is now virtually extinct there, despite the Buddha having been Indian), or Jews and Christians (who were also massacred there by the millions at the hands of Muslim jihadists). In the twentieth century, Islamified nations slaughtered over 50 million Christians on their own territory.
Estimates of the number of non-Muslims massacred over thge past 13 centuries by Islam run to well over 300 MILLION.
The western democracies have yet to rack up homicidal carnage on that scale. I doubt they ever will.
at May 18, 2007 4:18 PM
if you want to throw unsubstantiated claims with no evidence for shits and giggles, here is mine :
Hindus have killed 1 billion people
Christians killed around 3 billion and a half.
at May 18, 2007 4:36 PM
"There are many other Muslim countries where Christians, Muslims and Jews live in peace". -sublimer
Name one. Even Egypt, with its "tolerance", is no great shakes for Jews or other non-Muslims-including Christians.
-----------------------------
BTW, my hunch is that Bin Laden realized that a pluralistic Saudi Arabia will spell the doom of Islam. It is his nightmare. What was it that happened in 1990 (prior to Desert Storm) that spooked him? Who knows, it might have been the sight of an American woman driving a jeep and Saudi women looking at her. Something spooked that guy-really rattled his Islamic cage.
Maybe Saudi Arabia and Mecca will be the Las Vegas of the Mideast one day and all the people there will bow to slots. I can see it now: the Muhammad Casino.
Underneath all this Jihad are oceans of fear-especially re free women. Bin Laden is not alone in the ocean of fear and the need to assert controls to keep from drowning.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 6:16 PM
Mary Habeck in her writings appears to believe that after the second, failed siege of Vienna by the Ottoman Turks in 1683, the doctrine of Jihad simply disappeared. It did not. It was as much a part of Islam then as it was in 700 A. D. or 2007 A.D. What changed was the ability of Muslims to act on the doctrine, and as long as Muslims understand their duty of Jihad, and attempt to fulfill it whenever and wherever it proves possible, they need not quixotically attack, through military means, those Infidels who are simply too strong. Besides, the instruments of Jihad are now far more varied than they were in 700 A. D. or in 1683 A.D. There is the "money weapon" to pay for mosques and madrasas, academic centers taking their orders, subtly or openly, from the Arab funders, and of course there are small armies of Western hirelings, journalists, businessmen, public relations experts, former diplomats, former intelligence agents for Western countries, all of whom have in the past, and still now, are hired to limit the Western understanding of, and hostility to, Saudi Arabia, the Arabs, and Islam.
She confuses -- she who just began her study of Islam a year or two ago (as the non-tenure handwriting on the wall at Yale became clear, she began to repackage herself as an "expert on Islam." If Judith Kipper the sociologist could overnight transform herself into a "Middle East expert," why then so can any man...or woman.).
Posted by: Hugh at May 18, 2007 7:29 PM
Hugh,
your points are often way off mark but your hunch to look for fantastical intrigues and secretive plots where there are none and your belief that in this conspiracy there is a vast network of operating "Arab funders" and "small armies of Western hirelings, journalists, businessmen, public relations experts, former diplomats, former intelligence agents for Western countries" could make a good lurid sensationalism novelist a la ian fleming. You should give it a try instead of wasting your time here where no one but the "cult" takes you seriously.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 7:50 PM
Sub-
Yeah-all Jews and Christians are just yearning to live in Morocco and Malaysia because of the tolerance and pluralism. The Jewish people fled to Israel because of the tolerance in Morocco-LOL.
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 8:32 PM
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/morocjews.html
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 8:43 PM
Personally, I'm gratified that you're here, slublimer, because unlike the garden-variety troll with whom we're all familiar, you are at least semi-literate. Hell, I may even come out of lurkdom for a time just to deride you, since you at least will understand you're being insulted.
As for what I make of the Spencer passage you cite, I certainly don't make of it that Robert asserts jihadists are the only true Muslims, as you claim he does. In no way have you established that, nor can you.
Other than noting that, I haven't much more to say. For one thing, the "cult" is already doing an admirable job of exposing your nonsense as the incoherent drivel it is. But more importantly, if you're going to take disrespectful pot shots at Hugh directly, it will only be a matter of time before he pulls himself away from writing his potboiler and dispatches you personally. I needn't get my undies in a wad.
BTW, there ARE no "violent passages" in the OT or NT that enjoin or even urge the faithful to commit murder, enslave others, or the like, while there are hundreds of Koranic passages that indeed do so. Again, I'm awaiting dubious quotations if you intend to take up the challenge. In a more recent thread, Robert asks us to formulate answers to the most common “jihadist obfuscations.” Your argument is silly little number seven on Robert’s list, and here is my short rejoinder to it:
BS! Be specific about the scriptural verses to which you’re referring, as we are when referring to abhorrent passages in the Koran, as numerous and annoying as flies at a barbecue.
Regards,
HAID
at May 18, 2007 8:45 PM
Sublimer - Malaysia is NOT a good place to be a non-Muslim...and it's getting worse all the time. Just ask Lina Joy, who converted to Christianity and wants to marry a Christian. Look at what happened to her, and what is still happening. And she isn't the only one.
Ask the Hindus in Malaysia what's been happening to their temples.
Oh yeah - and ask the grieving widows of those Christians who were murdered in the most sadistic and horrible manner in Islam's name ...in 'secular' 'moderate' Turkey.
One more tiny little question - why did so many thousands of Jews LEAVE Morocco? If it was so great to be a Jew in Morocco? I don't see thousands of Jews hurrying back there to live.
at May 18, 2007 8:49 PM
Sub-
It's no great shakes in Morocco-and that's supposed to be an example of Muslim tolerance? Try Morocco compared to what-Egypt?
Posted by: Frank at May 18, 2007 8:53 PM
Frank,
read this :
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/990730/king.shtml
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:30 PM
HAID, you want quotations of violent passages from the bible ? Here you have it :
1. Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8
2. God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17
3. God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
4. God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
5. God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
6. Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6
7. Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8
8. God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24
9. Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26
10. God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe's lie. 20:3-7
11. Sarai tells Abraham to "cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands him to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14
12. God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13
13. Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10
14. Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31
15. "The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5
16. "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7
17. After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10
18. After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24
19. Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19
Exodus
20. Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12
21. God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23
22. God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26
23. God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4
24. "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17
25. God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. 7:17-24
26. The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die. 9:2-6
27. The sixth plague: boils and blains upon man and beast. 9:9-12
28. "For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14
29. The seventh plague is hail. "And the hail smote throughout the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast." 9:22-25
30. These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God was premeditated. 11:4-6 (see 12:29-30)
31. God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." 11:7
32. God explains to Moses that he intends to "smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. 12:12
33. After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29
34. To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15
35. After hardening Pharaoh's heart a few more times, God drowns Pharaoh's army in the sea 14:4-28
36. Moses and the people sing praises to their murderous god. 15:1-19
37. "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3
38. God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6
39. If you do what God says, he won't send his diseases on you (like he did to the Egyptians). But otherwise.... 15:26
40. Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13
41. "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." 17:14-16
42. Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." 19:12-13
43. Like the great and powerful Wizard of Oz, nobody can see God and live. 19:21
44. God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24
45. A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17
46. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 21:24-25
47. If an ox gores someone, "then the ox shall surely be stoned." 21:28
48. If an ox gores someone due to the negligence of its owner, then "the ox shall be stoned, and his owner shall be put to death.". 21:29
49. If an ox gores a slave, the owner of the ox must pay the owner of the slave 30 shekels of silver, and "the ox shall be stoned." 21:32
50. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
51. "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." Is it really necessary to kill such people? Couldn't we just send them to counseling or something? 22:19
52. "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22:20
53. If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
54. "The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me." (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
55. God promises to "send his fear before the Israelites" and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
56. Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
57. Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around -- in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
58. Have your killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
59. Wash up or die. 30:20-21
60. Moses burned the golden calf, ground it into powder, and then forced it down the throats of all the people. 32:20
61. Whoever puts holy oil on a stranger shall be "cut off from his people." 30:33
62. Those who break the Sabbath are to be executed. 31:14
63. God asks to be left alone so that his "wrath may wax hot" and he can "consume them. 32:10
64. God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill "every man his neighbor." "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." 32:27-28
65. But God wasn't satisfied with the slaughter of the 3000, so he killed some more people with a plague. 32:35
66. If you can't redeem him, then just "break his neck." Hey, it's all for the glory of God. 34:20
67. Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." 35:2-3
Leviticus
68. God gives detailed instructions for performing ritualistic animal sacrifices. such bloody rituals must be important to God, judging from the number of times that he repeats their instructions. Indeed the entire first nine chapters of Leviticus can be summarized as follows: Get an animal, kill it, sprinkle the blood around, cut the dead animal into pieces, and burn it for a "sweet savor unto the Lord." Chapters 1 - 9
69. "Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6
70. Burn the head, fat, and entrails for "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:8-9
71. "Kill it and sprinkle blood round about." 1:11, 3:2, 3:8, 3:13
72. "Cut it into pieces and burn it for a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:12-13
73. "Wring off its head and burn it." 1:15
74. "For a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:17
75. "Part it in pieces... it is a meat offering." 2:6
76. "It is a thing most holy of the offerings of the LORD made by fire." 2:10
77. What to do with the fat, kidneys, and liver of your burnt offerings. 3:3-4, 3:9-10, 3:14-16
78. "Kill the bullock before the Lord and take of the bullock's blood." 4:4
79. "The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle the blood seven times before the Lord." 4:6, 4:17
80. "Pour all the blood at the bottom of the altar." 4:7
81. What to do with the fat, kidneys, liver, skin, head, entrails, and dung from your burnt offerings. 4:8-11
82. "The bullock shall be killed before the Lord." 4:14
83. "Kill it and pour out the blood." 4:24-25
84. "Slay it for a sin offering, pour out the blood, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the Lord." 4:29-31
85. Slay it for a sin offering, put the blood on your finger, and pour out the blood at the bottom of the altar. 4:33-34
86. Wringing off the heads of pigeons for God. 5:8-9
87. Kill the sin offering before the Lord. "It is most holy." 6:25
88. The holy law of trespass offering: Find an animal; kill it; sprinkle the blood around; offer God the fat, rump, kidneys, and caul; burn and eat it in the holy place, for "it is most holy." 7:1-6
89. The priest must sprinkle the blood of the peace offerings. 7:14
90. Be careful what you eat during these animal sacrifices. Don't eat fat or blood -- these are for God. (And he doesn't like to share!) 7:18-27
91. God gives instructions for "wave offerings" and "heave offerings." He says these offerings are to be made perpetually "by a statute for ever." Have you made your heave offering today? 7:30-36
92. Moses does it all for God. First he kills an animal; wipes the blood on Aaron's ears, thumbs, and big toes. Then he sprinkles blood round about and waves the guts before the Lord. Finally he burns the whole mess for "a sweet savour before the Lord." 8:14-32
93. More killing, sprinkling of blood, waiving animal parts, and burning carcasses "before the Lord." 9:2-21
94. Kill the calf, dip your finger in the blood, sprinkle the blood round about, burn the fat and entrails, and wave the breast for a wave offering before the Lord. 9:8-21
95. Two of the sons of Aaron "offered strange fire before the Lord" and "there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord." 10:1-3
96. If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by uncovering their heads, tearing their clothes, leaving with holy oil on them, or by drinking "wine or strong drink", then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." 10:6-9
97. After a woman gives birth, a priest must kill a lamb, pigeon, or dove as a sin offering. This is because having children is sinful and God likes it when things are killed for him. 12:6-8
98. God's law for lepers: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. 14:2-32
99. God "put the plague of leprosy" into the houses of the Canaanites. 14:34
100. God explains the use of scapegoats. It goes like this: Get two goats. Kill one. Wipe, smear, and sprinkle the blood around seven times. Then take the other goat, give it the sins of all the people, and send it off into the wilderness. 16:6-28
101. Sprinkle the blood and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the Lord. 17:6
102. If you upset God, he'll cause the land to vomit you out. 18:25
103. "Whosoever shall commit any of these abominations ... shall be cut off from among their people." 18:29, 19:8
104. Don't eat sacrifices on the third day or God will cut you off from among your people. 19:6-8
105. Kill anyone who "gives his seed" to Molech. If you refuse, God will cut you and your family off. 20:2-5
106. "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Couldn't we try spanking first? 20:9
107. Both parties in adultery shall be executed. 20:10
108. If a man has sex with his father's wife, kill them both. 20:11
109. If a man "lies" with his daughter-in-law, then both must be killed. 20:12
110. If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13
111. If you "lie" with your wife and your mother-in-law (now that sounds fun!), then all three of you must be burned to death. 20:14
112. If a man or woman "lie with a beast" both the person and the poor animal are to be killed. 20:15-16
113. People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death. 20:27
114. A priest's daughter who "plays the whore" is to be burned to death. 21:9
115. God gives us more instructions on killing and burning animals. I guess the first nine chapters of Leviticus wasn't enough. He says we must do this because he really likes the smell -- it is "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 23:12-14, 18
116. Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you. 23:29-30
117. A man curses and blasphemes while disputing with another man. Moses asks God what to do about it. God says that the whole community must stone him to death. "And the children of Israel did as the Lord and Moses commanded." 24:10-23
118. Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community. 24:16
119. God tells the Israelites to make slaves out of their neighbors and their families. The "heathens" and "strangers" are to be their possessions forever. 25:44-46
120. God tells the Israelites to "chase" their enemies and make them "fall before you by the sword." He figures five of the Israelites will be able to "chase" a hundred of their enemies, and a hundred will be able to "put ten thousand to flight." 26:7-8
121. God describes the torments that he has planned for those who displease him. The usual stuff: plagues, burning fevers that will consume the eyes, etc. but he reserves the worst for the little children. He says "ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it," "I will send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children," and "ye shall eat the flesh of your sons and daughters." 26:16-39
122. All "devoted" things (both man and beast) "shall surely be put to death." 27:28-29
Numbers
123. God shows his hospitality with the admonition: "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 1:51, 3:10, 3:38
124. Two of Aaron's sons are killed by God for "offering strange fire before the Lord." 3:4
125. Don't touch or "go in to see when the holy things are covered." God kills people who touch or look at covered holy things. 4:15, 20
126. God tells the people to expel from camp "every leper, every one that hath an issue, and whoever is defiled by the dead." So by God's instructions, the sick are abandoned and left to suffer and die alone. 5:1-4
127. "And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it." (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burned the complainers alive. That'll teach them. 11:1
128. "And wile the flesh [of the quails] was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague. "The Bible isn't too clear about what these poor folks did to upset God so much; all it says is that they had "lusted." 11:33
129. Miriam and Aaron (Moses' brother and sister) criticize Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman and thus breaking the law of God. But God makes it clear that his rules don't apply to his favorites, and he strikes Miriam with leprosy. Notice that only Miriam is punished, though both she and Aaron complained. 12:1, 9-10
130. More plagues and pestilence sent by God. God repeats one of his favorite promises: "your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness." 14:12, 29, 14:32-37
131. God punishes the children for the failings of their great-great grandfathers. 14:18
132. God killed those that murmured against him with a plague. 14:36-37
133. God gives more instructions for the ritualistic killing of animals. The smell of burning flesh is "a sweet savour unto the Lord." 15:3, 13-14, 24
134. The Israelites find a man picking up sticks on the sabbath. God commands them to kill him by throwing rocks at him. 15:32-36
135. Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God has the ground open up and swallow Korah, Dathan, and Abiram "and their wives, and their sons, and their little children." Then, just for the hell of it, God has a fire burn to death 250 "men that offered incense." 16:20-35
136. After God killed Korah, his family, and 250 innocent bystanders, the people complained saying, "ye have killed the people of the Lord." So God, who doesn't take kindly to criticism, sends a plague on the people. And "they that died in the plague were 14,700." 16:41-50
137. God threatens to kill those who murmur. To which the people reply, "Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish .... Shall we be consumed with dying?" 17:12-13
138. Stay away from holy things and places -- like churches. God might have to kill you if you get too close.18:3, 22, 32
139. God shows us how to make new friends by saying : "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 18:7
140. God describes once again the procedure for ritualistic animal sacrifices. such rituals must be extremely important to God, since he makes their performance a "statute" and "covenant" forever. 18:17-19
141. The purification of the unclean. These absurd rituals, cruel sacrifices, and unjust punishments are vitally important to God. They are to be "a perpetual statute" for all humankind. 19:1-22
142. "And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities." This verse demonstrates the power of prayer: If you ask God, he will destroy entire cities for you. 21:3
143. God sends "fiery serpents" to bite his chosen people, and many of them die. 21:6
144. God delivers the Amorites into Moses' hands. (You're in God hands with Moses.) So Moses does the usual thing, killing everyone "until their was none left alive." 21:34-35
145. God's people will kill like a lion and then "drink the blood of the slain." 23:24
146. God, who is as strong as a unicorn, will eat up the nations, break their bones, and then pierce them through with his arrows. What a guy! 24:8
147. After the people "commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab," Moses has them all killed. Then God tells Moses to hang their dead bodies up in front of him; God says that this will satisfy him. 25:1-5
148. When one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman, "Phinehas (Aaron's grandson) sees them and throws a spear "through the man .. and the woman through her belly." This act pleases God so much that "the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." But not before 24,000 had died. 25:6-9
149. For impaling the interracial couple, God rewards Phinehas and his sons with the everlasting priesthood. 25:10-13
150. God tells Moses how to care for his neighbors by saying: "Vex the Midianites, and smite them." 25:16-17
151. The ground swallow Korah and his companions and a fire consumes 250 men. 26:10
152. "And Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange fire before the Lord." When you go camping avoid making any unusual fires. 26:61
153. In these chapters, God provides ridiculously detailed instructions for the ritualistic sacrifice of animals. The burning of their dead bodies smells great to God. Eleven times in these two chapters God says that they are to him a "sweet savour." 28 - 29
154. Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins -- Wow! (Even God gets some of the booty -- including the virgins.) 31:1-54
155. God killed all the Egyptian firstborn. 33:4
156. God tells Moses to exterminate the residents of Canaan and destroy all of their religious symbols and possessions. 33:50-52
157. But if the Israelites don't kill them all, then God will make them pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides. And he will do unto the Israelites as he planned to do to the inhabitants of Canaan. 33:55-56
158. "The revenger of blood" must murder the murderer just as soon as he sees him. 35:19, 21
159. When a murder is committed the blood pollutes the land. The only way to cleanse it is to spill more blood by killing the killer. 35:30, 33
Deuteronomy
160. "The Lord destroyed them before them" -- the general treatment of the people who were supposedly displaced by the Israelites. 2:21-22
161. All nations shall be terrorized by the followers of Yahweh. 2:25
162. God hardened the heart of the king of Heshbon and so that he could have him and all of his people killed. 2:30
163. At God's instructions, the Israelites "utterly destroyed the men, women, and the little ones" leaving "none to remain." 2:33-36
164. The Israelites, with God's help, kill all the men, women, and children of every city. 3:3-6
165. When going to war, don't be afraid. God is on your side; "he shall fight for you." 3:22
166. God destroyed the followers of Baalpeor. 4:3
167. God brought the Israelites out of Egypt "by war ... and by great terrors." 4:34
168. If someone makes an image of anything (like a bird or flower) then God will destroy the entire nation. 4:25-26
169. If you worship the wrong god, God will get jealous and kill you. 6:15
170. God instructs the Israelites to kill, without mercy, all the inhabitants (strangers) of the land that they conquer. 7:2
171. If you do show any mercy to such strangers, "give your daughters to any of them, or "take" any of their daughters, then you'll get God so angry that he'll "destroy thee suddenly." 7:4
172. God will kill those who hate him. 7:10
173. God commands his people to "consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity on them." 7:16
174. God will send hornets to kill your enemies, "for the Lord thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible." 7:20-23
175. "If thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods ... ye shall surely perish." 8:19-20
176. God is "a consuming fire" that destroys people. 9:3
177. "The blood of sacrifices shall be poured out ... and thou shalt eat the flesh." Isn't this the sort of thing that Satanists are accused of doing? 12:27
178. Kill those of other faiths. 12:30
179. Prophets and dreamers are to be executed if they say or dream the wrong things. 13:1-5
180. If your brother, son, daughter, wife, or friend tries to get you to worship another god, "thou shalt surely kill him, thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death." 13:6-10
181. If you hear of a city where another god is worshiped, then destroy everyone in the city (even the cattle) and burn it down. (Watch out Salt Lake!) 13:12-16
182. Kill everyone who has religious beliefs that are different from your own. 17:2-7
183. Anyone who will not listen to a priest or a judge must be executed. 17:12-13
184. False prophets are to be (you guessed it) executed. How do you know who is a false prophet? By whether or not their predictions come true. (Watch out Jehovah's Witnesses!) 18:20
185. Murderers and perjurers are to be executed -- "and thine eye shall not pity" them. 19:11-13, 18-21
186. "And thine eye shall not pity. Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." 19:21
187. God travels with people and fights in their wars. 20:4
188. In the cities that god "delivers into thine hands" you must kill all the males (including old men, boys, and babies) with "the edge of the sword .... But the women ... shalt thou take unto yourself." 20:13
189. "But of the cities ... which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth." Kill the old men and women, the sick and the dying, the blind and the lame, pregnant mothers, nursing mothers, infants, toddlers, and babies. 20:16
190. If you find a dead body and don't know the cause of death, then get all the elders together, cut off the head of a heifer, wash your hands over its body, and say our hands have not shed this blood. (That'll do it!) 21:1-8
191. If you have a "stubborn and rebellious son," then you and the other men in your neighborhood "shall stone him with stones that he die." 21:18-21
192. Hang on trees the bodies of those who are "accursed of God." They make nice decorations. 21:22
193. If a man marries, then decides that he hates his wife, he can claim she wasn't a virgin when they were married. If her father can't produce the "tokens of her virginity" (bloody sheets), then the woman is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep. 22:13-21
194. "If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband, then they shall both of them die." 22:22
195. If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." 22:23-24
196. Legal disputes are settled by a judge who determines guilt or innocence. No lawyers or jury are needed. Those found guilty will be beaten with 40 stripes. 25:1-3
197. If two men fight and the wife of one grabs the "secrets" of the other, "then thou shalt cut off her hand" and "thine eye shall not pity her." 25:11-12
198. God commands the Israelites to "blot out the rembrance of Amalek from under heaven." A few hundred years later God orders Saul to kill of the Amalekites "both man and woman, infant and suckling." (1 Sam.15:2-3) 25:19
199. If you don't obey all of the laws that are given in the Old Testament, God shower you with the curses that are given in the next 52 verses. 28:16-68
200. "Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body." 28:18
201. God will send you "cursing, vexing, the pestilence, consumption, fever, inflammation, extreme burning, the sword, blasting, and mildew." 28:20-22
202. "And thy carcass shall be meat to all the fowls of the air." 28:25-26
203. "The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and the emerods [hemorrhoids], and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst be healed. The Lord will smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart." 28:27-28
204. "Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes." 28:31
205. Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people." 28:32
206. You will be enslaved and driven mad in another country. 28:33-34
207. "The Lord will smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head." 28:35
208. You will be ruled by other nations, forced to serve other gods, become a laughingstock among your neighbors, have your crops destroyed by locusts, your vines eaten by worms, and have fruitless olive trees. 28:36-40
209. "Thou shalt begat sons and daughters, but thou shall not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity." 28:41
210. "All these curses shall come upon thee ... and upon thy seed for ever." 28:48-49
211. God will enslave you and destroy you with hunger, thirst, hardship, and all kinds of deprivation. 28:48-52
212. "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters." 28:53-55
213. "The tender and delicate woman" will be forced to eat her own children "that cometh out from between her feet." 28:56-57
214. If you don't do as God says he'll send plagues to torment and destroy you. 28:58-64
215. "The LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind." 28:65-67
216. God will have you sold to your enemies -- but even they won't buy you. 28:68
217. If you serve the gods of other nations, "all the curses that are in this book" will fall upon you. 29:18-20
218. "And the Lord will put all these curses upon thine enemies." See Dt.28:16-64 for some of the curses God has in mind. 30:7
219. Moses tells the people that God will destroy all the inhabitants of the lands that they pass through. 31:3
220. When God gets mad -- watch out! He'll starve you to death, burn you with fire, and send vicious beasts to devour you. He'll "destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs." Not even the helpless and innocent are spared by this psychotic God. 32:21-26
221. God says, "To me belongeth vengeance, and recompense ... for the day of their destruction is at hand." 32:35
222. God says, "I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh." Someone should take his sword and arrows away, at least until he's feeling better. 32:39-43
Joshua
223. "And the city shall be accursed ... and all that therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live." God explains that Rahab is to be spared since she hid Joshua's spies and lied to those who were searching for them (2:4-5). But why was everyone else killed? Some of them were probably liars too. 6:17
224. "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." 6:21
225. After killing everyone, "they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein." Only the valuables (silver, gold, brass, and iron) did they keep to "put into the treasury of the house of the Lord." 6:24
226. Joshua says that those who try to rebuild Jericho will be accursed by God, and will have to sacrifice both their oldest and their youngest sons in its construction. Well, Jericho still exists today, and is often considered to be the world's oldest, continuously occupied city. 6:26
227. God tells Joshua to kill whoever tood "the accursed thing." 7:10-12
228. If you happen to see "the accursed thing," don't touch it. If you do, you, your family, and all of your animals must be burned. 7:15
229. "And Joshua ... took Achan ... and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his sheep... And all of Israel stoned them with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones." This is because Achan "took of the accursed thing" -- whatever that means. But why would God require that Achan's sons and daughters (and even his animals) be stoned to death along with him? The Bible doesn't say. But it does tell us that "the Lord turned from the fierceness of his anger" when Achan, his children, and his animals were stoned to death and their dead bodies burned. 7:24-26
230. "When ye have taken the city [Ai] ... ye shall set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the LORD. 8:8
231. Joshua and his army, per God's instructions, slaughter "all the inhabitants of Ai." 8:22-26
232. Joshua hangs the king of Ai on a tree until evening. 8:29
233. After Joshua kills all the inhabitants of Ai, burns their city, and hangs their king on a tree, he kills some animals and burns them as a "peace offering" to his warlike God. 8:31
234. God curses the Gibeonites to be slaves of the Jews forever. 9:21-27
235. God slaughters the Amorites and even chases them "along the way" as they try to escape. Then he sends down huge hailstones and kills even more of them. 10:10-11
236. In a divine type of daylight savings time, God makes the sun stand still so that Joshua can get all his killing done before dark. 10:12-13
237. God tells Joshua to "pursue after your enemies and smite the hindmost of them." (Kick their butts.) Don't let any of them escape "for the Lord your God hath delivered them into your hand." 10:19
238. Joshua tells his captains to "put your feet upon the necks of these kings." He says, "thus shall the Lord do to all of your enemies." Then Joshua kills the kings and hangs them on trees. 10:24-26
239. Joshua, at God's command, kills everyone and everything that he can find (including babies and little children)-- or, as the Bible puts it, he "utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord commanded." 10:28-32
240. God delivers the Hazorites into Joshua's hand, and he knows just what to do with them: he smites them all with (you guessed it) the edge of the sword until "there was not any left to breathe." 11:6-17
241. "And Joshua did unto them as the LORD bade him: he houghed their horses." 11:9
242. "For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly." Notice that God hardens their hearts so that he can have an excuse to kill them. 11:20
243. Caleb offers to give his daughter to whoever conquers the city of Debir. Caleb's nephew wins the contest and is given his cousin for a prize. 15:16-17
244. "Did not Achan son of Zerah commit a trespass in the accursed thing, and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel?" To find out see Joshua 7:1-26. 22:20
245. God is jealous and will never forgive you for your sins. "He will turn and do you hurt, and consume you." 24:19-20
Judges
246. God appoints Judah to succeed Joshua. The Lord delivers his foes into his hands and another 10,000 are slain. In the process, they capture Adonibezek and "cut off his thumbs and great toes." Nice guys. 1:2-6
247. "They slew the Canaanites that inhabited Zephath, and utterly destroyed it ... And the Lord was with Judah." (You can tell by the number of innocent people he killed.) 1:17, 19
248. The Israelite spies killed everyone in Bethel, except for the man (and his family) who showed them how to enter the city. 1:25
249. Ehud delivers a "message from God" to the king of Moab. God's message consists of a knife thrust so deeply into the king's belly that it could not be extracted, "and the dirt came out." Just another lovely Bible story. 3:15-22
250. God "delivers" more folks into the hands of his chosen people. "And they slew of Moab ... about 10,000 men ... and their escaped not a man." 3:28-29
251. Shamgar kills 600 Philistines with an ox goad. Praise God. 3:31
252. "The Lord discomfited Sisera ... with the edge of the sword ... and there was not a man left." 4:15-16
253. Jael (our heroine) offers food and shelter to a traveler (Sisera, Jabin's captain), saying "turn in my Lord ... fear not." Then after giving him a glass of milk and tucking him in, she drives a tent stake through his head. "So God subdued on that day Jabin." 4:17-23
254. For murdering her guest while he slept, Jael is "blessed above women." (Hail Jael, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women....?) 5:24-26
255. "So let all thine enemies perish, O Lord." (Let them all have their temples pierced by blessed women.) 5:31
256. When Gideon and his water-lapping companions blow their trumpets, God forces all the enemy soldiers to kill each other, killing 120,000. 7:22, 8:10
257. Two princes are killed and their heads are brought to Gideon. 7:25
258. For refusing to feed him and his army, Gideon tears the flesh off the elders of Succoth and kills the men of the city. 8:7, 16
259. Gideon orders his son to kill two kings, but he refuses. So Gideon has to do it himself since his son isn't "man" enough to do it. 8:20
260. Abimelech kills 69 brothers "upon one stone." (He was trying to get in the Guinness Book of World Records.) 9:5
261. God sends evil spirits that cause humans to deal treacherously with each other. 9:23-24
262. God smites Sihon and all his people and gives their land to Israel. 11:21
263. "Whomsoever the LORD our God shall drive out from before us, them will we [the Israelites] possess." 11:24
264. When "the spirit of the Lord" comes upon Jephthah, he makes a deal with God: If God will help him kill the Ammonites, then he (Jephthah) will offer to God as a burnt offering whatever comes out of his house to greet him. God keeps his end of the deal by providing Jephthah with "a very great slaughter." But when Jephthah returns, his nameless daughter comes out to greet him (who'd he expect, his wife?). Well, a deal's a deal, so he delivers her to God as a burnt offering -- after letting her spend a couple of months going up and down on the mountains bewailing her virginity. 11:29-39
265. 42,000 men are killed because someone mispronounces "shibboleth." 12:6
266. Samson rips up a young lion when "the spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him." Later, when going to "take" his Philistine wife he notices a swarm of bees and honey in the lion's carcass (a Divine miracle -- or just rotting flesh and maggots?). 14:5-8
267. "And the spirit of the Lord came upon him [Samson], and he ... slew thirty men." (Samson might have been a decent person if he could have kept the spirit of the Lord off him.) 14:19
268. Samson catches 300 foxes, ties their tails together, and sets them on fire; the Philistines burn Samson's ex-wife and father-in-law; and Samson smites them "hip and thigh with a great slaughter." 15:4-8
269. "The spirit of the Lord came mightily upon" Samson and "he found a new jawbone of an ass ... and took it, and slew 1000 men therewith." 15:14-15
270. Samson, with God's help, kills himself and 3000 Philistine men and women by causing a roof to collapse, setting an example for Bible-based terrorism. 16:27-30
271. The Danites massacre the "quiet and secure" people of Laish. 18:27
272. After taking in a traveling Levite, the host offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine to a mob of perverts (who want to have sex with his guest). The mob refuses the daughter, but accepts the concubine and they "abuse her all night." The next morning she crawls back to the doorstep and dies. The Levite puts her dead body on an ass and takes her home. Then he chops her body up into twelve pieces and sends them to each of the twelve tribes of Israel 19:22-30
273. God tells the Israelites to send the tribe of Judah into battle and 22,000 men were killed by the Benjamites. 20:18, 21
274. God tells Phinehas to fight against the Benjamites, saying he will deliver them into his hand. So the Israelites kill some more people for God. 20:38-41
275. God tells them to go to battle again and another 18,000 are killed. 20:23, 25
276. God helps the Israelites kill 25,100 Benjamites. 20:35
277. The Israelites killed everyone in the city with the edge of the sword. 20:37
278. Another 25,000 Benjamites are killed by the God-assisted Israelites. 20:44, 46
279. The Israelites finish their massacre of the Benjamites by killing all the men, animals, and everything they could find in every Benjamite city. Then they burned the cities to the ground. (In this way God helped the Israelites make everything better after the rape and dismemberment of the concubine.) 20:48
280. To find wives for the Benjamites (they were unwilling to use their own daughters), the other tribes attacked and killed all occupants of a city except for the young virgins. These virgins were then given to the Benjamites for wives. 21:7-23
1 Samuel
281. "The Lord killeth ..." -- every chance he gets. 2:6, 2:25
282. "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them." If God doesn't like you, he'll send a thunderstorm your way to break your body into little pieces. 2:10
283. God will kill those who sin against him. 2:25
284. If you piss him off, God will cut off your arm, consume your eyes, grieve your heart, and kill your sons and grandfathers. 2:31-34
285. God will punish Eli's descendants forever for the sins of Eli's sons. 3:12-13
286. God smites the people of Ashdod with hemorrhoids "in their secret parts." 5:6-12
287. God kills 50,070 men for looking into the ark. "And the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." 6:19
288. "I make a covenant with your, that I may thrust out all your right eyes." Deals like this can only be found in the Bible. 11:2
289. "And the spirit of God came upon Saul ... and he took a yoke of oxen, and hewed them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the coast of Israel." People do the darnedest things when the spirit of God comes upon them! 11:6-7
290. "Saul ... slew the Ammorites unto the heat of the day." Then he took a little break. After all, killing is hard work. 11:11
291. God delivers the Philistines into Jonathan's hand. And his very "first slaughter ... was about twenty men." Not bad for a first slaughter. 14:12
292. Under God's influence, the Philistines killed each other. 14:20
293. But later, Saul and his army kill all of those who had not already been killed. 14:36
294. God orders Saul to kill all of the Amalekites: men, women, infants, sucklings, ox, sheep, camels, and asses. Why? Because God remembers what Amalek did hundreds of years ago. 15:2-3
295. Saul killed everyone but Agag (the king) and the best of the animals. But still God was furious with Saul for not killing everything as he had been told to do. He said, "it repenteth me that I have set Saul up to be king." 15:7-26
296. Saul is rebuked by Samuel for "doing evil in the sight of the Lord" by failing to kill all of the Amalekites. 15:18-19
297. Because Saul didn't kill everyone as God commanded, God changes his mind about him being king. 15:23-26
298. To please God, Samuel hacks Agag in pieces "before the Lord" [I bet God enjoyed that!] -- after Agag pleads with him saying, "surely the bitterness of death has past." 15:32-34
299. After God rejects Saul for refusing to kill indiscriminately, he sends Samuel to find another king. David is chosen and anointed by Samuel, and "the spirit of the Lord came upon him from that day forward." 16:13
300. The evil spirit from the Lord
"But the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul [since he was not murderous enough for God], and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him." But if God is good, then how could he have an evil spirit? 16:14-16, 23
301. David kills Goliath with his sling, beheads him, and carries the head back to Jerusalem. 17:51-57
302. David and Saul have a contest to see who can kill the most people for God, and the women act as cheerleaders saying, "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." 18:6-7, 21:11, 29:5
303. David kills 200 Philistines and brings their foreskins to Saul to buy his first wife (Saul's daughter Michal). Saul had only asked for 100 foreskins, but David was feeling generous. 18:25-27
304. "David went out, and fought with the Philistines, and slew them with a great slaughter." 19:8
305. Saul kills 85 priests of Nob and all men, women, children, and animals in the city of Nob. 22:18-19
306. "David inquired of the Lord, saying, Shall I go and smite these Philistines? And the Lord said unto David, Go, and smite the Philistines ... So David smote them with a great slaughter." 23:2-5
307. David vows to kill "any that pisseth against the wall." 25:22, 34
308. "And it came to pass about ten days after, that the Lord smote Nabal, that he died." This was convenient for David who then took his property and his wife, Abigail. 25:38
309. "And David smote the land and left neither man nor woman alive." (No wonder God liked David so much!) 27:8-11
310. Saul visits a woman with a "familiar spirit" and she brings Samuel back from the dead. Samuel once again explains that God is angry at Saul for not killing all of the Amalekites. He says God is going to deliver all of Israel into the hands of the Philistines. (Since Saul refused to slaughter innocent people, God will slaughter the Israelites. Fair is fair.) 28:8-19
311. David spends the day killing more of those pesky Amalekites. They are completely wiped out again. (See 1 Sam.15:7-8, 20 and 27:8-9 for the last two times that they were exterminated.) 30:17
2 Samuel
312. David tells one of his "young men" to kill the Amalekite messenger who claimed to have mercifully killed Saul at Saul's own request. 1:15
313. Joab and Abner watch as the young men "play" a cruel game. "And they caught every one his fellow by the head, and thrust his sword in his fellow side, so they fell down together." 2:14
314. Abner smites Asahel "under the fifth rib." 2:23
(It seems that in 2 Samuel this is the preferred place to get smitten. 3:27, 4:6, 20:10)
315. When Joab (David's captain) kills Abner (by smiting him under the fifth rib of course), David says that he and his kingdom are not responsible. The blame, he says, lays with Joab. So David curses Joab, his family, and their descendants forever. Let them all be plagued with venereal diseases and leprosy, starve to death, commit suicide, or lean on staves. (The Revised Standard Version translates "leaneth on a staff" as "holds a spindle," apparently meaning effeminate -- real men don't spin or weave.) 3:27-29
316. Some of David's men kill Saul's son (by smiting him under the fifth rib, of course) and bring his head to David, thinking that he'll be pleased. But he wasn't. David has the assassins killed, their hands and feet chopped off, and their bodies hung up (for decorations?) over the pool in Hebron. 4:6-7
317. Whoever kills the lame and the blind will be David's "chief and captain." 5:8
318. "David ... grew great, and the LORD God of hosts was with him." 5:10
319. David asks God if he should kill some more Philistines. God says yes, and he'll even help. So David and God "smote the Philistines" again. 5:19, 25
320. Uzzah tries to keep the ark from falling off the cart, and God kills him for it. I guess it was God's way of saying Thanks. 6:6-7
321. David kills two thirds of the Moabites and makes the rest slaves. He also cripples the captured horses. 8:2-4
322. "David slew of the Syrians two and twenty thousand men ... and the Lord preserved David withersoever he went." 8:5-6, 14
323. David tells Joab (his captain) to send Bathsheba's husband (Uriah) to "the forefront of the hottest battle ... that he may be smitten and die." In this way, David gets another wife. 11:15, 11:17, 11:27
324. To punish David for having Uriah killed, God kills Bathsheba's baby boy. 12:14-18
325. David saws, hacks, and burns to death all the inhabitants of several cities. Maybe this is what is meant by "the tender mercies of David" (Acts 13:34). 12:31
326. Absalom has his servants kill his brother for raping his sister. (This chapter, which includes incest, rape, murder, should be rated NC-17.) 13:28-29
327. Poor Absalom gets his head caught in an oak tree, and before he can get free, Joab thrusts three darts through his heart. 18:14
328. Amasa is viciously slaughtered by Joab, who "shed out his bowels to the ground ... And Amasa wallowed in blood in the midst of the highway." 20:10, 12
329. "And they cut off the head of Sheba ... and cast it out to Joab." 20:21-22
330. A famine is sent on David's kingdom for three years. When David asks God why, God answers: "It is for Saul, and his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. "So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king had done. 21:1
331. To appease God and end the famine that was caused by his predecessor (Saul), David agrees to have seven of Saul's sons killed and hung up "unto the Lord." 21:6-9
332. "He teacheth my hands to war." Might as well learn from an expert. 22:35
333. "Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies." 22:41
334. The chief of David's captains killed with his own spear 800 guys at one time. 23:8
335. God offers David a choice of punishments for having conducted the census: 1) seven years of famine ( 1 Chr.21:1 says three years), 2) three months fleeing from enemies, or 3) three days of pestilence. David can't decide, so God chooses for him and sends a pestilence, killing 70,000 men (and probably around 200,000 women and children). 24:13
1 Kings
336. In David's last words, he commands his son Solomon to murder Joab. 2:1-9
337. Solomon has his brother (Adonijah) murdered. 2:24-25
338. Solomon carries out the deathbed instructions of his father David by having Joab murdered. 2:29-34
339. Solomon justifies the murder of Joab by saying that Joab also was a murderer, and that the blood of Joab's victims "shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever." 2:33
340. But Solomon is not done murdering yet. He has Shimei murdered -- or as Solomon put it, "The Lord shall return thy wickedness upon thine own head." 2:44, 46
341. When the ark of the covenant was brought into the temple, Solomon killed more animals than could be numbered. 8:5
342. When dedicating the temple, Solomon kills 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep. All this blood and gore must have made God very happy. 8:63
343. Joab (David's captain) spent six months killing every male in Edom. 11:16
344. King Josiah is prophesied to sacrifice the priests of the "high places" on their altars. And he does so in 2 Kg.23:20. Note that this is a guy who "did what was right in the eyes of the Lord" (2 Kg.22:2). 13:2
345. Ever the playful spirit, God withers, and then restores, the hand of king Jeroboam. 13:4
346. There were these two prophets. The first prophet lied to the second. To the punish the second for believing the first's lie, God sends a lion to kill him. Get it? 13:11-24
347. God promises to "bring evil upon the house of Jerobaom," saying he will "cut off" anyone "that pisseth against the wall." Then, after he is done with them, their dead bodies will be eaten by dogs (if they are city dwellers) or fowls (if they are country folk). 14:10-12
348. Baasha kills "all of the house of Jeroboam" leaving none "to breath." This slaughter was done "according to the word of the Lord." 15:29
349. God says that "him that dieth of Baasha in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth of his in the fields shall the fowls of the air eat." 16:4
350. Zimri kills everyone "that pisseth against a wall ... according to the word of the Lord." 16:11-12
351. When Hiel rebuilds Jericho, he lays the foundation with the body of his oldest son and sets up the gates with his youngest son's body "according to the word of the Lord." 16:34
352. Elijah kills 450 prophets of Baal. 18:22, 40
353. God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites hands, and 100,000 were killed in one day. Of those that escaped, 27,000 were crushed by a falling wall. 20:28-30
354. There was this son of a prophet that said to his neighbor, "kill me." But the neighbor refused. So God sent a lion to devour him. 20:35
355. The prophet tells king Ahab that he, and his people, shall be punished for releasing Ben-hadad: "Your life shall go for his life, and your people for his people." 20:42
356. Although Naboth was set up here by Jezebel to steal his land, the text assumes that the proper punishment for "blaspheming God and the king" is death by stoning. 21:10-13
357. "Thus saith the Lord, in the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine." 21:19
358. God will "bring evil upon" Ahab and "cut off" all those "that pisseth against the wall." 21:21
359. Jezebel (Ahab's "strange" wife) "stirred up" Ahab to "work wickedness in the sight of the Lord." To punish her, God will feed her dead body to the dogs. (He also plans to feed the city folk to the dogs and country folks to the birds.) 21:23-25
360. Jehoshaphat "did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord" and "took" the homosexuals (sodomites) "out of the land," or as the RSV says, "he exterminated" them. 22:43, 46
2 Kings
361. Ahaziah was sick and sent messengers to Baalzebub to ask if he would recover. God was jealous of the attention given to his competitor and tells Ahaziah that he will die for asking the wrong god. 1:4, 17
362. Elijah shows that he is "a man of God" by burning 102 men to death. 1:9-12
363. God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head. 2:23-24
364. God instructs the Israelites, through the prophet Elisha, to implement a scorched earth policy on the Moabites. "Strike every fortified city and every choice city, and fell every good tree and stop all springs of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones." 3:19-25
365. In a desperate attempt to halt the slaughter of his people by the Israelites, the king of Moab sacrifices his oldest son as a burnt offering. And it seems to have worked! 3:27
366. Elisha not only can cure leprosy, he can also dish it out. Here he makes his servant (Gehazi) and all his descendants lepers forever. 5:27
367. "So we boiled my son, and did eat him." Women killed, boiled and ate their own children because of a plague that God sent, or as the Bible puts it: "Behold, this evil is of the Lord." 6:28-29, 33
368. A man is trampled to death for disbelieving Elisha. 7:17-20
369. God sends a famine on the people that lasts for seven years. 8:1
370. God says that the "whole house of Ahab shall perish," and that he "will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall." 9:8
371. "And the dogs shall eat Jezebel ... and there shall be none to bury her." 9:10
372. Jehu shoots an arrow right through poor old Jehoram's heart. 9:24
373. God has Jezebel thrown off a wall. Her blood is sprinkled on the wall and on the horses, by which she is trampled. Her body is eaten by dogs and all that remains of it is her hands, feet, and skull. God says that she "shall be as dung upon the face of the field." 9:33-37
374. All seventy of king Ahab's sons are killed, their heads put in baskets, and sent to Jezreel. He says, "Lay ye them in two heaps ..." 10:7-8
375. Jehu kills all that remained of king Ahab's family. 10:11
376. Jehu captures and then murders 42 men. 10:14
377. Jehu shows off his zeal for the Lord by murdering "all that remained unto Ahab in Samaria, till he had destroyed him according to the word of the Lord." 10:16-17
378. Jehu lied to the followers of Baal so that he could trap and kill them. 10:19
379. Jehu warns his guards saying, "If any of the men escape, he that letteth him go, his life shall be for the life of him." 10:24
380. Jehu, when he finishes his animal sacrifices, orders his men to "Go in, and slay them, let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword." 10:25
381. God is greatly pleased with all of Jehu's killings, saying "because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart [Jehu murdered them all], thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel." 10:30
382. Jehu captures and then murders 42 men. 10:42
383. When Athaliah "saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all of the seed royal." 11:1
384. The priest has Athaliah and her followers killed. 11:15-16
385. The "Lord's people" destroyed the "house of Baal" and killed "the priest of Baal before the altars." 11:17-18
386. Amaziah "did that which was right in the sight of the Lord" and killed ten thousand Edomites. 14:3, 7
387. God strikes king Azariah with leprosy "unto the day of his death" for not removing the high places. 15:5
388. King Menahem rips up all the pregnant women in Tizzah "because they opened not to him." Does God approve of such acts? It's impossible to tell from this passage; the mass murder is simply reported without editorial comment. 15:16
389. God sent lions to devour the foreigners in Samaria because "they feared not the Lord," and even worse "they knew not the manner of the God of the land." Well that'll teach them about God's manners. 17:25-26
390. An "angel of the Lord" kills 185,000 men while they sleep. "And when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses." I guess they all woke up and said, "Shucks, I'm dead." 19:35
391. Josiah, apparently with God's approval, kills "all the priests of the high places" and sacrifices them to God on their altars. Note that this is a guy who "did what was right in the eyes of the Lord" (2 Kg.22:2). 23:20
392. Even though Josiah did all that God asked of him, God still punished him and all Jerusalem for the acts of his grandfather. 23:26
1 Chronicles
393. God killed Er for being "evil in the sight of the Lord." 2:3
394. The sons of Reuben made war with the Hagarites and "there fell down many slain, because the war was from God." They did pretty well for themselves, too, in God's war, taking 250,000 sheep and 100,000 slaves. 5:18-22
395. But the Israelites "transgressed against the God of their fathers, and went a whoring after the gods of the people of the land, whom God destroyed before them." So God inspired the Assyrians to go to war with the Israelites. 5:25-26
396. Saul died for refusing God's order to kill all of the Amalekites (15:2-3, 18-19) and for consulting a witch (1 Sam.28:8-19). 10:13-14
397. The chief of David's captains killed with his own spear 300 guys at one time. 11:11
398. God kills Uzza for trying to keep the ark from falling. 13:9-10
399. David kills 7000 men in chariots and 40,000 footmen. 19:18
400. David's army "wastes the children of Ammon ... besieged Rabbah ... and destroyed it." 20:1
401. David tortures all the inhabitants of several cities "with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes." 20:3
402. God kills 70,000 men because David had a census. 21:7
2 Chronicles
403. Solomon, when dedicating the temple, killed 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep. All the blood, guts, pain, and suffering must have made God very happy. 7:5
404. God kills the king of Israel and helps Abijah kill 500,000 Israelites. "The children of Judah prevailed, because they relied upon the Lord God of their fathers." (That is, they had God on their side.) 13:15-20
405. In the largest single God-assisted massacre in the bible, Asa, with God's help, kills one million Ethiopians. 14:8-14
406. "Nation was destroyed of nation, and city of city: for God did vex them with all adversity." 15:6
407. Whoever that does not seek the God of Israel should be executed. 15:13
408. God inspired Jehoram's enemies to steal his wives and children. Then he made Jehoram so sick that his bowels fell out. 21:14-19
409. Only Levites can enter "the house of the Lord". "Whosoever else cometh into the house, he shall be put to death." 23:6-7
410. God told Jehu to kill everyone in the house of Ahab (and then later condemned him for it (Hosea 1:4)). 22:7-9
411. The priest (Jehoiada) tells the people to kill Athaliah and her followers. So they find her and kill her. "And all the people of the land rejoiced: and the city was quiet, after that they had slain Athaliah with the sword." (Don't you just love happy endings?) 23:14-15, 21
412. "Then all the people went to the house of Baal" and broke its altar into pieces and killed Mattan the priest of Baal. 23:17
413. Amaziah (who "did that which was right in the sight of the Lord") killed 10,000 people; another 10,000 he left alive to throw off a cliff "that they all were broken in pieces." 25:1-2, 11-12
414. God makes Uzziah a leper for burning incense without a license. 26:19-21
415. Pekah killed 120,000 people in one day and enslaves 200,000 women and children "because they had forsaken the Lord God of their fathers." 28:6, 8
416. The priests kill bullocks, rams, and lambs. The blood of the dead animals is then sprinkled on the altars. 29:22, 24
417. God sent an angel to kill the Assyrian army. (According to 2 Kg.19:35 the angel killed 185,000 sleeping soldiers who woke the next morning to discover that they were dead.) 32:21
418. God vows to "bring evil upon this place ... even all the curses that are written in the book." He says his "wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched." 34:24-25, 28
419. God gets angry with his people, so he sends the king of the Chaldees to kill all the "young men with the sword." He has compassion for no one, not even old men that are "stooped for age." In his tender mercy and loving kindness he has them all slaughtered. 36:16-17
Esther
420. Esther has two men "hanged on a tree." 2:22-23
421. Esther has another man (Haman) hung. 7:6, 10
422. Esther suggests that the ten sons of Haman should also be hanged. So "they hanged Haman's ten sons. 9:13-14
423. The Jews kill 75,000. 9:16
Job
424. To start off God and Satan's gruesome game, Job's slaves and animals are killed. 1:14-17
425. God (or Satan -- it's hard to tell them apart) sends a wind that kills Job's sons and daughters. 1:18-19
426. "So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown." 2:7
427. Because of God's cruel wager with Satan, Job curses the day he was born. 3:1-3, 11
428. God terrorizes people with arrows and poison. 6:4
429. God terrifies people by sending them nightmares while they sleep. 7:14
430. Speaking of God, Job says: "He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth." 16:9
Psalms
431. If you ask God, he'll force heathens to be your slaves and help you "dash them in pieces." 2:8-9
432. God has smitten his "enemies upon the cheek bone" and has "broken the teeth of the ungodly." 3:7
433. Kiss the Son or God will get angry and might have to kill you. 2:12
434. Christians often say that one should love the sinner but hate the sin. Perhaps, but God hates
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:37 PM
Here are some more :
435. God has prepared deadly weapons (swords, bows, etc.) and plans to use them. 7:11-13
436. If you pray to God, he will kill your enemies for you. 9:3-6
437. God will rain fire and brimstone on "wicked" folks. 11:6
438. The God of peace teaches us how to kill our neighbors in war. 18:34
439. If you make God angry, he'll burn you and your children to death. 21:9-10
440. God will shoot his adversaries in the back with his arrows. 21:12
441. A sweet prayer for the destruction of one's enemies: Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.... Let destruction come upon him at unawares." 35:6,8
442. God laughs at those that he will later torment. 37:13
443. If you forget God, God will tear you into pieces. 50:22
444. If you don't trust in God, he'll kill you and while you're dying the "righteous" will laugh at you. 52:5-7
445. Referring to his enemies, the psalmist says: "Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell." 55:15
446. The psalmist devoutly prays: "Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth ... let them be cut in pieces." 58:6-7
447. The psalmist asks God to kill all "the heathen" and not show them any mercy. 59:5
448. God will laugh at the heathen as he kills them. 59:8
449. "The righteous" will rejoice when he sees "the wicked" being dismembered by God. He'll even get a chance to wash his feet in their blood. Now that's entertainment! 58:10
450. "The God of mercy" will let the psalmist see his enemies tormented. 59:10
451. "Consume them in thy wrath, consume them." -- more sweet prayers to a savage god. 59:13
452. God will "wound the head of his enemies" so that the righteous can wash their feet "in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same." 68:21, 23
453. The psalmist prays that his enemies be tormented and blinded by God. He asks God to "make their loins continually to shake." 69:23-28
454. "The LORD heard this" (he had his hearing aid on) and became angry, and burned people "because they believed not in God." 78:21-22
455. "The wrath of God came upon them" and God killed many of the Israelites for not believing in "his wondrous works." 78:31-34
456. The psalmist asks God to " do unto them as unto the Midianites ... which became as dung for the earth." 83:9-18
457. If you don't follow God's commandments, he will beat you with a rod. 89:31-32
458. "I will ... destroy all the wicked of the land." 101:8
459. God gives the lions their meat. The cruelty and brutality of nature are all part of God's plan. 104:21
460. The psalmist recounts God's treatment of the Egyptians: "He smote the firstborn in their land." See Ex.12:29-30 for the gory details. 105:29-36
461. God is praised for the creative ways that he kills people: drowning, earth-swallowing, burning, etc. 106:11-19
462. God sent a plague on the Israelites for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab." But "then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment [by throwing a spear through a newly married couple]: and so the plague was stayed." But not before 24,000 (1 Cor.10:8 says 23,000) had died. (See Num.25:6-9 for all the gory details.) 106:29-30
463. The psalmist asks God to do all sorts of unpleasant things to his enemies. "Set thou a wicked man over him; and let Satan stand at his right hand .... Let his prayer become sin." He asks God to take away his possessions, kill him, and have his children suffer for the sins of their fathers. 109:6-14
464. God will "fill the places with dead bodies" of heathens. 110:6
465. God is praised for slaughtering kings, nations, and little babies. 135:8, 10
466. "To him that smote Egypt in their first born: for his mercy endures forever." 136:10
467. God "overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever." 136:15
468. God "smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever." 136:17-18
469. "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." 137:9
470. The psalmist excels at hating. He hates people with a "perfect hatred" and asks God to kill them. 139:19-22
471. A prayer that God will burn people to death. 140:10
472. The God of Peace teaches us to kill each other in war. 144:1
473. he saints praise God while they kill and enslave "the heathen." 149:5-8
Proverbs
474. Beating your children with a rod is a sure sign of parental love. 13:24
475. God made bad people for the pleasure of punishing them. 16:4
476. Fools are meant to be beaten. 18:6
477. Beat your children and don't stop just because they cry. 19:18
478. Scorners (skeptics?) should be condemned; fools should be beaten. 19:29
479. "The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly." 20:30
480. "The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous." 21:18
481. Beating your children will make them less foolish. Have you beaten your child today? 22:15
482. Beat your children hard and often. Don't worry about hurting them. You may break a few bones and cause some brain damage, but it isn't going to kill them. And even if they do die, they'll be better off. They'll thank you in heaven for beating the hell out of them. 23:13-14
483. Whip horses and strike the backs of foolish people with rods. 26:3
484. Beating your children will make them wise. 29:15
485. Beat your servants (slaves), as though they were your children. 29:19
486. If you mock your father or disobey your mother, the ravens will pick out your eyeballs and the eagles will eat them. 30:17
487. "The wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood." 30:33
Isaiah
488. "And ... instead of a sweet smell there shall be stink," with people suffering from baldness and burnings, and the men killed with swords. 3:24-25
489. After God "washed away the filth" from the women and killed the men, he set up "a cloud and smoke by day" and a "flaming fire by night." 4:4-5
490. God will kill those who despise his word and fail to follow his laws. Their carcasses will be "torn in the midst of the streets." 5:24-25
491. If you associate or gird yourself, God will break you in pieces. 8:9
492. God will have no mercy on the widows and children of hypocrites. 9:17
493. God will make every man kill his brother and then force him to eat "the flesh of his own arm." 9:19-20
494. God will "smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked." 11:4
495. "I have commanded my sanctified ones ... to destroy the whole land." God has his holy ones do his dirty work for him. 13:3-5
496. On God's day he will kill sinners with great anger, wrath, and cruelty. Those who die will have their faces consumed by flames. 13:6-9
497. If God can find you, he will "thrust you through," smash your children "to pieces" before your eyes, and rape your wife. He will have no mercy, but will even kill your little children. 13:15-18
498. God will slaughter children "for the iniquity of their fathers." 14:21
499. After God destroys Moab, the rivers will be red with blood. He will send lions to eat any survivors. 15:9
500. The God of Peace will set brother against brother and kingdom against kingdom. Then he'll make the survivors seed the counsel of "wizards," and subject them to a "cruel lord." 19:2-4
501. The Apocalypse of Isaiah: God will destroy the earth, burning everyone and every living thing alive (except maybe a few men). 24:1-6
502. "And the people shall ... be burned in the fire." 33:12
503. God is furious at everyone and is ready to kill them all. Or as Isaiah so delicately puts it: "Their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood." 34:2-3
504. God's sword "will be bathed in heaven." Sounds like a place to stay away from. 34:5
505. God's sword is "filled with blood," and he fully intends to use it. He'll kill so many people with it that the "land shall be soaked with blood." 34:6-8
506. An angel of God kills 185,000 men. "And when they [those killed by the angel?] arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead men." 37:36
507. God will "go forth as a mighty man" who cries and roars, and "will cry like a travailing woman." After he tires of roaring and crying he'll "destroy and devour." What a guy. 42:13
508. God makes Egypt, Ethiopia, and Seba pay for Israel's sins. He says that he likes Israel better than any other country so he's willing to sacrifice other countries for the Israel's sake. 43:3-4
509. No astrologer, stargazer, or prognosticator will be able to save those that God plans to burn to death. 47:13-14
510. God "will do his pleasure on Babylon." (He will mercilessly slaughter the Babylonians.) 48:14
511. "I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine." 49:26
512. "The heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner." (God plans to destroy the universe.) 51:6
513. "I will ... trample them in my fury; and their blood ... will stain all my raiment." (God's clothes will get stained with the blood of humans.) 63:2-6
514. "God's servants" will eat, drink, and be merry; everyone else will be hungry, thirsty, and ashamed -- until God kills them, that is. 65:13-16
515. God will "plead with all flesh" with fire and sword, "and the slain of the Lord shall be many." 66:16
516. The carcasses of those killed by God will be piled high. They will rot and burn forever. And although their stench will be revolting to humans, it will be a sweet savour unto the Lord. 66:24
Jeremiah
517. God tries to "correct" people by killing their children. 2:30
518. Circumcise the foreskin of your heart or God will burn you to death. 4:4
519. God will bring evil to entire cities, destroying them and wipe out all of their inhabitants. 4:6-7
520. What was once fruitful is now barren. Birds have fled, people are gone, towns are in ruins. All "by his (God's) fierce anger." 4:25-26
521. God sends plagues and violence to correct people. 5:3
522. God will send lions and leopards to tear people into little bitty pieces. 5:6
523. God will kill those who believe and preach the wrong doctrines. 5:12-13
524. God again talks of bringing a foreign nation to destroy his chosen ones and their lands. 5:15-17
525. "I am full of the fury of the Lord; I am weary of holding it in." He's anxious to "pour it out" on children, young men, husbands, wives, and old people. 6:11-12
526. God threatens to punish the men by taking away all of their property, including their wives, and giving them to others. 6:12
527. God plans to kill pretty much everyone: fathers and sons, family, friends, and neighbors. God plans to kill them all after laying a stumbling block before them. 6:21
528. God will send soldiers from the north that will kill everyone and have no mercy. 6:22-23
529. God will pour out his anger on both man and beast. Not even the trees will be spared from his wrath. And the ground itself will burn forever. 7:20
530. God will feed the people to the birds and the beasts, "and none shall fray them away." 7:33
531. God will cover the earth with dead bodies that will not be buried. "They shall be for dung upon the face of the earth." 8:2
532. People will choose to kill themselves, rather than be killed by their vicious God. 8:3
533. God will give the people bad food and water, and then kill them with a sword. 9:15-16
534. God will kill children and young men, and the dead bodies "shall fall as dung .... and none shall gather them." 9:21-22
535. "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised." I guess that'd include just about everyone -- well, all the men anyway. 9:25-26
536. Jeremiah prays for the destruction of people and families that don't call on God's name. 10:25
537. God "will bring evil upon" people from which they will not be able to escape. And if they cry out to him for help, he will not help them. 11:11
538. God forbids others from praying for his victims. Such prayers would go unanswered anyway, he says, because he "will not hear them in their time of trouble." 11:14
539. God will punish the people by killing their young men in war and starving their children to death. 11:22
540. Jeremiah asks God to drag away his enemies like "sheep for the slaughter." 12:3
541. God delivered his people "into the hand of her enemies." He "hates" his "dearly beloved" people and plans to feed them to the birds. 12:7-9
542. God's sword will "devour" everyone until "no flesh shall have peace." 12:12
543. If any nation does not listen to God, he "will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation." 12:17
544. God plans to make everyone in the kingdom drunk and then "dash the fathers and the sons together." The merciful God of Peace vows to "not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." 13:13-14
545. God tells Jeremiah not to pray for the people. God has decided to kill them all and he doesn't want to be talked out of it. 14:11
546. God will ignore the peoples' prayers, and kill them all with war, starvation, and disease. 14:12
547. God will destroy by famine and sword those who are misled by the prophets, as well as the prophets themselves. 14:15-16
548. God tells Jeremiah not to bother praying for the people. Even if Moses and Samuel (and Jesus?) were to ask him to reconsider, he wouldn't. He's going to kill everybody and nobody can stop him! 15:1
549. God plans to do four things to his people: 1) kill them with swords, 2) tear their flesh with dogs, 3) have the birds, and 4) the beasts eat their bodies. Why will he do these terrible things? Because of something some former king did. 15:2-4
550. God again threatens Jerusalem with mass destruction. Here are some of the highlights: He will kill children, make more widows than there are grains of sand, terrorize cities, and then kill the survivors. 15:7-9
551. God will have you enslaved and, if you make him mad enough, he will burn you to death. 15:14
552. God tells Jeremiah not to get married or have children, because he's going to kill everyone (mothers and daughters, fathers and sons). They all "shall die of grievous deaths," and that shall neither "be lamented" nor buried, but "shall be as dung upon the face of the earth." For he has removed peace, "lovingkindness," and mercy from the people. 16:1-7
553. God will kill children if their parents worship other gods. 16:10-11
554. If you don't honor the Sabbath, God will burn you to death unquenchable fire. 17:27
555. God admits that he does evil things to people. 18:11
556. Jeremiah asks God to kill the young men in war and the children by starvation. 18:21
557. God will do so much evil to the people that whoever hears of it will have their ears tingle. 19:3
558. God will make parents eat their own children, "and they shall eat everyone the flesh of his friend." 19:7-9
559. God will break those who worship other gods as though they were made of clay, killing so many that there will not be enough room to bury them all. 19:11-13
560. "For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will make thee a terror to thyself, and to all thy friends: and they shall fall by the sword of their enemies, and thine eyes shall behold it." 20:4
561. God himself will fight and kill everyone in fury "with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm." 21:5
562. "I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall die of a great pestilence." 21:6
563. God will deliver Zedekiah and those that survive the famine, disease, and war into Nebuchadrezzar's hand, and "he shall smite them with the edge of the sword; he shall not spare them, neither have pity, nor have mercy. 21:7
564. God tells the Judeans to either surrender to the Babylonians and become their slaves or die. "Behold, I am against thee." No kidding. 21:9-13
565. God will have Jeconiah's enemies kill him and his mother and then ensure that he die without leaving any sons. 22:25-30
566. God promises to kill everyone by war, starvation, and disease. 24:10
567. God will force "all the kingdoms of the world" to drink "and be drunken". Then he'll kill "all the inhabitants of the earth" with a sword. 25:26-29
568. God will kill so many people that the entire earth will be covered with their dead bodies. No one is to mourn them or even bury them; "they shall be dung upon the ground." 25:31-33
569. God will destroy "the peaceable habitations" and make the land desolate "because of his fierce anger." 25:37-38
570. Anyone who disobeys King Nebuchadnezzar will be punished "with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand." 27:8
571. God kills Hananiah for prophesying falsely. 28:15-17
572. God will send his usual blessings upon his people: "the sword, the famine, and the pestilence." He "will make them like vile figs, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil." 29:17-18
573. God will kill those who refuse listen to his prophets. 29:19
574. God will deliver Ahab and Zedekiah into the hands of Nebuchadrezzar "and he shall slay them before your eyes" and Ahab will be "roasted in the fire." 29:21-22
575. God will punish the children of Shemaiah for their father's false prophecy. 29:32
576. God litters the ground "with the dead bodies of men" that he has killed in his anger and fury. 33:5
577. God threatens again to send his people the sword, pestilence, and famine, saying he'll feed their dead bodies to the fowls and beasts of the earth. 34:17-20
578. All those who move to Egypt will die by the sword, famine, or pestilence. None "shall escape from the evil" that comes directly from God. 42:15-18, 22
579. When God pours forth his fury and his anger, entire cities are destroyed. 44:6
580. God's not finished with Judah. He will bring more evil upon them. Even those Jews that flee to Egypt will not be spared. God will hunt them down and kill them all with war, famine, and disease. 44:11-13
581. "I will watch over them for evil, and not for good." 44:27
582. God says he will bring evil upon all flesh. 45:5
583. The day of the Lord will be "a day of vengeance." On that day God's sword will become drunk with blood. 46:10
584. God plans to drown the Philistines in a flood, and "all the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl." 47:2
585. God plans to kill just about everybody. "No city shall escape." 48:8
586. "Cursed by he that keepeth back his sword from blood." 48:10
587. God will destroy everyone in Moab. Fire will burn their heads, and their sons and daughters will be taken captive. 48:42-47
588. God will cause the daughters of Rabbah to be burned with fire. 49:2
589. God will send such marvelous plagues on Edom that everyone will hiss in astonishment. 49:17
590. God plans to "bring evil upon" the people of Elam. He says he'll kill them all with a sword. 49:37
591. God says to do the usual thing to the inhabitants of "the land of Merathaim": kill them all. 50:21
592. God commands that all Babylonian bullocks be slaughtered, that archers shoot all Babylonians, and that all their men be killed in war. 50:27-30
593. God, the pyromaniac, will personally set the fires that will burn to death the inhabitants of entire cities. 50:32
594. God plans to kill all the Babylonian horses, and to make the Babylonian men "become like women." (A fate worse than death to a misogynous god.). 50:37
595. God wants us to be his "battle axe and weapons of war" to "break in pieces the nations" and "destroy kingdoms." 51:20
596. God will "break in pieces" nations and kingdoms, horse and rider, man and woman, old and young, young man and maid, the shepherd and his flock, husbandman and his yoke of oxen, captain and kings. It seems that God intends to break us all into pieces. 51:21-23
597. God will get the Babylonians drunk and then kill them all, leading them "like lambs to the slaughter." 51:39-40
Lamentations
598. God tramples "as in a winepress" mighty men, young men, and virgins. 1:15-16
599. "The Lord Was an enemy." 2:4-8
600. God mercilessly kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children. 2:20-22
601. God is like a bear or a lion who secretly pursues you and then tears you apart. 3:10-11
602. "Give them sorrow of heart, thy curse unto them. Persecute and destroy them in anger." 3:63-64
603. God punishes the Israelites by starving their children to death. 4:4-9
604. God "accomplishes his fury" by making women eat their children. 4:10-11
Ezekiel
605. If a good person does something wrong after God "lays a stumbling block before him," then God will kill him. "He shall die in his sin" and whatever good he has done will be forgotten. 3:20
606. God will cause the fathers to eat their sons and the sons to eat their fathers. 5:10
607. God will slaughter everyone by killing one third with plagues, one third with famines, and one third with wars. If any somehow survive, he'll send "evil beasts" to devour them. Finally, after he's done killing, he "will be comforted." 5:11-17
608. God will decorate the land with the bones and dead bodies of those who worship a different god. 6:4-5
609. God makes his presence known by killing people with famine, disease, and war. 6:7-14
610. God will pour out his fury on everyone, with pity toward none. By so doing he says that "ye shall know that I am the Lord that smiteth." Indeed, who would else would behave so viciously? 7:3-9
611. God's is mad at everyone and no one will escape his wrath. He'll kill them all with war, disease, and starvation. "Horror shall cover them" and "they shall know that I am the Lord." 7:14-28
612. God promises again to slaughter everyone. He says that he will ignore them when they plead with him for mercy. 8:18
613. God sends a "man clothed with linen" to mark the foreheads of the men who will be saved. Apparently only men are considered good enough to keep, the others (unmarked men, "maids", little children, and women) are to be slaughtered. God says he'll "fill the courts with the slain" and will have pity on no one. 9:4-10
614. When you fall by the sword, you'll know that he is the Lord. 11:8-12
615. When God kills everyone in the city, then you'll know that he is the Lord. (Who else would be so cruel?) 12:15-16, 20
616. God gets mad at a wall and destroys it, along with those who worked on it. 13:14-15
617. God again vows to destroy those that dare worship something or someone other than him. 14:6-8
618. God deceives some of his prophets and then kills them for believing his lies. 14:9
619. When really bad things happen (like you get eaten by wild beasts, get killed in war, get sick and die, etc.), then you'll know that it was God that did it to you. 14:13, 15, 19, 21
620. God will burn the inhabitants of Jerusalem to show everyone that he is the Lord. 15:6-7
621. For being such a whore, God punished Jerusalem by starving the Israelites and handing them over to the Philistines. 16:17
622. After exposing her nakedness, God will give her "blood in fury and jealousy" and strip her naked once more. 16:38-41
623. God gave the Israelites "statutes that were not good and judgments whereby they should not live." He "polluted" them so that he "might make them desolate" and force them to kill and sacrifice their children "that they might know" that he is the Lord. 20:25-26
624. God will set a fire in the southern kingdom that will devour everything and burn everyone. "And all flesh shall see that I the LORD have kindled it." 20:47-48
625. God will kill everyone -- good and bad, just and unjust. 21:3-4
626. God describes the various ways that he will kill people. 21:8-32
627. "Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land ... for I the LORD have spoken it." 21:32
628. God will gather all of Israel and consume them in the fires of his anger. 22:20-22
629. God couldn't find anyone to stand up to him, so he's going to destroy everyone. 22:30-31
630. Two sisters were guilty of "committing whoredoms" by pressing their breasts and bruising "the teats of their virginity." As a punishment, one sister's nakedness was discovered, her children were taken from her, and she was killed by the sword. And the fate of the surviving sister was even worse: Her nose and ears were cut off, she was made to "pluck off" her own breasts, and then after being raped and mutilated, she is stoned to death. 23:1-49
631. God gets all excited about cooking with "scum" and human flesh, saying "kindle the fire, consume the flesh, and spice it well, and let the bones be burned." 24:3-14
632. God kills Ezekiel's wife and then tells him not to mourn her. 24:15-18
633. God will kill everyone that claps his hands or stamps his feet "against the land of Israel." When he's done with the killing everyone will know that he is the Lord. 25:6-17
634. God says he will destroy Tyrus. He plans to kill everyone, but he is especially looking forward to killing all of the women. "And her daughters which are in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I am the LORD." 26:1-21
635. Now God has singled out the king of Tyre for his tirades. 28:7-10, 18-19
636. Watch out or God will make you "die the deaths of the uncircumcised," which is, no doubt, a most unpleasant death. 28:10
637. God says that Zidon will know that he is the Lord when he sends "pestilence and blood into her streets." 28:22-23
638. God tells Ezekiel to prophesy against the pharaoh and against all Egypt. God says he will feed the Egyptians to the birds and beasts. 29:2-5
639. God makes "all their loins to be at a stand." When this is achieved, God will get out his sword and "cut off man and beast out of thee." Ouch! 29:7-9
640. God will punish Egypt and her allies by sending Nebuchadrezzar to "fill the land with the slain." Then he will make "the rivers dry," sell the land to "the wicked," make "the land waste," light fires, and kill all their young men with the sword. 30:4-26
641. "And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have set a fire in Egypt." (The Divine Pyromaniac) 30:8, 30:14, 30:16
642. God will treat Pharaoh like a whale fished out of the sea. Every bird and beast in the world will feed upon him. 32:3-6
643. God will vex the hearts of many people, destroy entire nations, brandish his sword, kill animals, and cause floods. In this way people will come to know him (just before he kills them?). 32:9-15
644. God takes a break from killing people while he kills all the animals in Egypt. 32:13
645. Pharaoh and all his multitude, along with the uncircumcised, will be killed with the sword. 32:20-32
646. If a "righteous" person does something wrong, God will forget every good thing that that person has ever done. Then God will kill him for the single mistake. 33:13
647. God plans some more killing by the sword, beasts, and the pestilence. 33:27-29
648. God will kill everyone in the cities, "and thou shalt know that I am the LORD." 35:3-4
649. "And I will fill his mountains with his slain men, and ye shalt know that I am the LORD." 35:6-9
650. God will return their own anger and hatred upon them, "and they shall know that I am the LORD." 35:11-15
651. Someday the God of Peace will start a war between Gog and Israel. 38:16
652. God will cause each man's sword to be against his brother; he will send disease and make it rain fire and brimstone. He says that by doing this he'll magnify and sanctify himself and let everyone know that he is the Lord. 38:21-23
653. God will have birds and beasts eat human flesh and drink human blood until they are full and drunken. 39:4, 17-20, 28
654. God "will send a fire on Magog ... and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord." 39:6-7
655. God hid his face from the Israelites, refusing to hear their prayers, while giving "them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword." 39:23-24
Daniel
656. Nebuchadnezzar, after first trying to burn to death the three Hebrews, now decrees that everyone who says anything against the Hebrew god "shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill." 3:29
657. King Darius, after trying to feed Daniel to the lions, orders those who accused Daniel (and their wives and children) to be cast into the lion den. "And the lions ... brake all their bones in pieces." 6:24
Hosea
658. God (or Hosea?) tells his children that their mother is a whore who is not his wife. He asks them to tell their mother to "put away her whoredoms" and "her adulteries from between her breasts" or he'll "strip her naked ... and slay her with thirst." 2:2-3
659. God will tear up Ephraim like a lion so that "in their affliction they will seek me." 5:14
660. "Woe unto them! for they have fled from me: destruction unto them!" 7:13
661. For ignoring God "their princes shall fall by the sword." 7:16
662. "I will send a fire upon his cities." 8:14
663. God will induce miscarriages and kill the children of Ephraim. 9:11-12
664. "O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." 9:14
665. "I will slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." 9:16
666. God will punish Israel by "dashing" together mothers and their children. 10:14
667. The blame for Ephraim's bloody destruction falls on Ephraim, not on God. Even though God is the one who brings it about. 12:14
668. God will rip humans apart and then eat them like a lion.13:7-8
669. Because the Samaritans chose to worship another deity, God will dash their infants to pieces and their "women with child shall be ripped up." 13:16
Joel
670. "Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears." 3:10
Amos
671. The divine pyromaniac threatens to "send fire unto" Hazael, Gaza, Tyrus, Teman, Rabbah, Moab, and Judah. 1:4, 7, 10, 12, 14; 2:2, 5
672. God will "slay all the princes" of Moab.2:3
673. God destroyed the Amorites who were a race of giants as tall as cedars and as strong as oaks. 2:9
674. God afflicts the Israelites with "cleanness of teeth" (famine) and drought. And then he wonders why they don't turn to him. 4:6-9
675. God sends the pestilence, kills young men with the sword, and makes t1e "stink of your camps to come up unto your nostrils." 4:10
676. God tells the Israelites to seek him or he'll kill 90% of them. 5:3-4
677. Seek God or he'll burn you to death. 5:6
678. When there is wailing and mourning, you'll know God's been there. 5:16-17
679. In the first of Amos' visions, God makes some grasshoppers and sends them to devour the peoples' crops. 7:1-2
680. Next God sends a fire that consumes both land and sea. 7:4
681. God will kill the house of Jeroboam with the sword, and force the Israelites into captivity. 7:9-11
682. Amos tells Amaziah that his wife will become a whore, his children will be killed, and he'll die in a pagan country. 7:17
683. God tells Amos that the end has come for the people of Israel. He won't wait any longer to kill them all. 8:2
684. God will kill so many people that dead bodies will lay everywhere. 8:3-14
685. God will "slay the last of them with the sword." Any that try to escape by diving to the bottom of the sea will be bitten, at God's command, by a serpent. God will set his "eyes upon them for evil, not for good." 9:1-4
686. God will destroy the "the sinful kingdom" and "all the sinners" among his people. 9:8-10
Obadiah
687. The Israelites hear "a rumor from the Lord" telling them to start a war with the Edomites. 1, 8
688. God tells Israelites to "destroy the wise men out of Edom" and to slaughter "everyone of the mount of Esau." 8-9
689. God will burn all the heathen to death, "for the LORD hath spoken it." 16-18
Micah
690. God will destroy Samaria with stones. 1:6
691. Plucking off skin, flesh from bones, eating human flesh, flaying off skin, breaking bones, chopping bodies in pieces, making human stew. All this and more will happen to God's favorite people. But when they "cry unto the Lord, he will not hear them." 3:2-4
692. God will strengthen the Israelites so they can "beat in pieces many peoples" and give the booty to God. 4:13
693. "They shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword." 5:6
694. Like a young lion "the remnant of Jacob" will tear the Gentiles to pieces. 5:8
695. "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." 5:9
696. God will "cut off" the witches and soothsayers. 5:11-12
697. God will destroy entire cities, and "execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen such as they have not heard." 5:14-15
698. God will make his people sick, hungry, and desolate. Those who survive he will "give up to the sword." 6:13-16
699. The Gentiles will be made deaf, shall lick dust and be forced to crawl like worms from fear of God and his people. 7:16-17
Nahum
700. God doesn't just get even. He drowns his enemies. 1:8
701. "Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will burn her chariots." 2:13
702. "There is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcasses; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses." Now that's a lot of dead people. 3:3
703. God punished Nineveh by enslaving the people and smashing the little children in the streets. 3:10
704. God says that "the fire shall devour thee, the sword shall cut thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm." 3:15
Habakkuk
705. "Before him [God] went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet." 3:3-5
706. Habakkuk praises God for slaughtering "the heathen." 3:12
Zephaniah
707. God plans to kill every living thing. 1:2-3
708. God will "cut off" all those who "have not sought the Lord" or who worship another god. 1:4-6
709. God will "bring distress upon men" so that they "walk like blind men." He will pour out their blood like dust and "their flesh as dung." 1:17
710. God will kill all the inhabitants of the sea coast. 2:5
711. God will destroy Moab and Ammon just like he did to Sodom and Gomorrah. 2:9
712. God will be "terrible" to humans and will "famish all the gods." 2:11
713. God will kill the Ethiopians with his own sword. 2:12
714. God destroyed entire cities, killing all the inhabitants. 3:6
715. "All of the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy." 3:8
Haggai
716. God will make the horses and their riders be killed by "the sword of his brother." 2:22
Zechariah
717. "For I set all men every one against his neighbor." 8:10
718. God will cast out Tyrus and devour it with fire. 9:4
719. God will mercilessly "feed the flock of slaughter" by making every one kill his neighbor. 11:6
720. "Let the rest eat every one the flesh of another." 11:9
721. "Woe to the idle shepherd." He will be mutilated and blinded. 11:17
722. God will open his eyes and smite "every rider with madness ... and every horse ... with blindness." 12:4
723. A prophet must be killed by his own parents by "thrusting him through when he prophesieth." 13:3
724. God will make "all nations" fight against Jerusalem. The women will be "ravished" and half its people enslaved. 14:1-2
725. God will smite the people with plagues that will cause their flesh, eyes, and tongues to rot away. 14:12
726. God will make everyone fight and kill his neighbor. 14:13
727. God sends his plagues on animals too. 14:15
728. Whoever survives all these plagues and slaughters must worship God. 14:16
729. God will "smite the heathen" with a plague. 14:18
Malachi
730. God continues to demand animal sacrifices. And not just any animals will do. He is insulted when blind, lame, or sick animals are killed for him. 1:8, 13-14
731. God will burn "the wicked" and the "righteous" will walk around on their ashes. 4:1-3
732. The Old Testament ends fittingly with these words: "lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." 4:6
733. God will burn "the wicked" and the "righteous" will walk around on their ashes. 25:1-3
Matthew
734. Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12
735. Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17
736. Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
737. Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14
738. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19
739. "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12
740. Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21
741. Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32
742. Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15
743. Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21
744. Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28
745. Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36
746. Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24
747. Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50
748. Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7
749. Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9
750. "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34
751. In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13
752. Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
753. God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51
754. The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
755. Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
756. Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
Mark
757. Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
758. Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
759. Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
760. Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
761. If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38
762. Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
763. Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke
764. God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20
765. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9
766. John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17
767. Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
768. Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15
769. Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
770. Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47
771. According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30
772. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31
773. Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27
774. Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32
775. In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John
776. As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16
777. People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36
778. The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36
779. Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14
780. Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6
781. Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
Acts
782. Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23
783. Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10
784. Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13
785. Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6
786. The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23
787. David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22
788. The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34
789. Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11
Romans
790. Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32
791. The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9
792. God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
>1 Corinthians
793. If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17
794. Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8
795. If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9
796. If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10
Ephesians
797. We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11
798. God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7
799. The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2
800. Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6
Colossians
801. God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14
802. God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20
1 Thessalonians
803. God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10
2 Thessalonians
804. Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9
805. Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8
806. God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
Hebrews
807. God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22
808. Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29
809. God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James
810. If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13
811. James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21
1 Peter
812. We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2
813. "The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20
814. God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20
2 Peter
815. God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6
816. God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7
817. When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John
818. Jesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7
Jude
819. "The Lord destroyed them that believed not. 5
Revelation
820. Jesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5
821. Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7
822. Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18
823. Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16
824. "I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23
825. "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11
826. God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2
827. God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4
828. God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8
829. The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11
830. God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3
831. 144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4
832. Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14
833. God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13
834. "Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11
835. The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6
836. God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10
837. Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19
838. Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5
839. God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6
840. After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7
841. Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12
842. When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14
843. "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
God planned to kill Jesus before he created the world. 13:8
844. Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11
845. "The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20
846. Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7
847. The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21
848. God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6
849. "They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17
850. To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8
851. God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9
852. Jesus makes war. 19:11
853. With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15
854. "Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18
855. The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21
856. God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10
857. Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15
858. All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8
at May 18, 2007 9:39 PM
Frank,
here is another article for you :
http://www.eurojewcong.org/ejc/news.php?id_article=731
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 9:50 PM
Looks like a huge cut and paste job to me Sublimer.
As far as Bukhari is concerned your not the first to try and nutralise his work to suit some agenda. If Allah did not say that directly, he certainly said this:
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
And this: Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
and this:
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).
and this :Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."
There's a lot more of this stuff for you to rationalise. I am sure you have a reasonable explanation as to why Allah decreed these things in the Quran. 9:38 sounds a little like the work of Bukhari that you disgarded, does it not. Oh well, I guess it all depends on what school you attend. We all know Allah was just kidding...
at May 18, 2007 10:28 PM
No duh_swami, I wrote all of that. Duh !
Compare your three passages with my cut and paste. What's your point ? Islam is violent and Christianity is not ?
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 10:33 PM
Very impressive, troll! LOL. Your copy and paste skills are impeccable, but your ability to follow an argument is sadly lacking.
I'm retreating to lurkdom, and you'll be gone soon enough anyway.
Have a nice life in Morocco.
HAID
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at May 18, 2007 10:41 PM
that's what you do when you can't answer. Call me troll and escape. You had just said I wasn't one a while ago. Oh well, if I am a troll, you're a chicken.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 10:54 PM
Face your holy book HAID. It's not exactly a disney fairy tale as many here think. You criticize the violence of the Koran as if the Bible was a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale. Poor bugger, hug a unicorn for me.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 10:58 PM
No duh_swami, I wrote all of that. Duh !
Compare your three passages with my cut and paste. What's your point ? Islam is violent and Christianity is not ?
Well, you write really fast. Complete with some commentary...You had all that memorised? amazing.
I dont care about your comparisons of Islam to Christianity or to ancient violence. Show me a Christian or Jew 'today' who straps on bombs and blows up pizza parlors and dance halls. As far as I am concerned your contributions are nothing more than intellectual masturbation.
Why dont you try and explain how it is that Allah is God. Now there is a real challange...
at May 18, 2007 11:04 PM
Intellectual masturbation.... well i hope I busted a nut in your brain and you are learning something.
Islam is established in the lineage of the Abrahamic faiths. you must know that. Allah (elohim) is the same as the Jewish or Christian God. It's as simple as that. Muslims believe in Adam, Moses, and Jesus and we believe that Christians and Jews will go to heaven. If you don't want to believe that, it's your problem. Anyways, it's a question of faith.
Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -
whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
shall have nothing to fear or regret.
-- Sura 5:69
at May 18, 2007 11:11 PM
No, I never said you weren't a troll. I said you were an exceptional one.
I was wrong. You're as annoying as the rest.
I can't answer? Au contraire. But you don't stick to the arguments, so there's no use in anything but escape, as you put it.
Here's the argument, which YOU framed: You said that proper Christians and Jews--"true" ones, you ventured--should be expected to "follow all the precepts and maxims" of the scriptures relating to "enslaving people, killing disbelievers, etc." I replied that there are no such injunctions on the faithful in the scriptures. So now, after bombarding us with voluminous references to "violence" in the Bible, you want to reframe the argument as one about whether or not the scriptures contain violence.
Neither Christian nor Jews have ever believed that the scriptures command them to make war in God's name, to murder in his name, to enslave or subjugate peoples in his name, or anything of the sort. I asked you to show me scriptural verses that resemble in any way the Koran's numerous passages exhorting believers to make war and conquer on behalf of Allah or to subjugate and subdue unbelievers. So you tell me about David slaying Goliath, the destruction of Sodom, and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Now what about this useless exchange is supposed to convince me to stick around and humor you?
I'm going back to bed.
HAID
at May 18, 2007 11:40 PM
"I'm going back to bed."
You actually got out of bed just to answer a troll. Thanks for the consideration. You are too nice.
Out of the 858 passages you only got the passages on goliath, sodom and the apocalypse. It's incredible how you can blind yourself to the clearer passsages that exhort to violence as you are in denial of the violent history of Christianity itself (Missions in the Americas, Anti-Jewish Pogroms, Inquisition, War of Religion, etc.)
Good night and sweet dreams (w/ lots of ponies and unicorns).
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:53 PM
My book? My book is Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. I'm just a nicens little boy. And you, troll, are a fearful Jesuit.
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at May 18, 2007 11:54 PM
My book is Celine's "A trip to the end of the night" but I can be Jesuit sometimes.
Posted by: sublimer at May 18, 2007 11:56 PM
Sublimer ...I knew you could not verify Allah as God. Nice try but no awards for clarity today. All you did was quote what others think and say about Allah. Thats no proof of anything.
I can do better than that so consider this..."The only thing that qualifies Islam as a religion is the belief in one God. But what are the qualities of thier god Allah? If Allah is not God, by qualities, then Allah is not God. If Allah is not God, then Islam is not a religion.
We can only determine Allahs qualities by the Quran and Hadith. Reasonably intelligent people, with no mental afflictions, who read Islamic literature will quickly come to the conclusion that Allah is not qualified for the job of God. Reject Allah as God, and Islam cant claim religion".
Push the button, pull the chain, there goes Allah down the drain...
Say, whatever happened to Ar-Rahman??
at May 19, 2007 12:08 AM
duh_swami
Your argumentation is brilliant !!!! In three lines you disproved that Allah is God. You should be a scholar. Do you know what translation is ? Do you know what God is in French ? It is not God, it is Dieu ! In arabic, it is Allah. In the old testament which is written in hebrew, a semitic language, God is Eloh. Check the footnotes of your bible. Now compare and contrast Eloh and its arabic translation (arabic is also a semitic language) Eloh-Allah.
what do you think the Old Testament was written in English ? Muslims believe that Allah and the Christian God is one and the same. You don't have to believe that if you want. But I'd say that the muslim position is at least more inclusive and more tolerant than yours.
Posted by: sublimer at May 19, 2007 12:31 AM
sublimer-
In Morocco Jews are less in danger-that's all. Roughly 50% of the Jews in Israel are descendants of people who have fled Muslim countries in the Mideast. The existence of Israel is an insult to Islam because Jews are meant to be Dhimmis in Dar-al-Islam. It's an intolerant supremacist religion. It is what it is.
As per "You know what Christian Arabs call God ?
- Allah"..... I know Robert Spencer's folks fled Turkey after WW1 (I understand some were killed or injured because of Muslim tolerance) and you might address questions re this to him. He might answer you.
BTW, my hunch re Robert is that he bravely addresses the intolerance of this "religion" in memory of some family. All things deeply cared about (addressing Muslim intolerance, e.g.) are personal.
Posted by: Frank at May 19, 2007 9:13 AM
Robert knows Arabic. I think he speaks it too.
Posted by: Frank at May 19, 2007 9:14 AM
sublimer,
My response to you a while back in regards to 2:62 also applies to the very similar 5:69. Here is the full verse properly quoted:
5:69. "Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve."
Notes:
1. "Those who believe"
What does that mean?
-must believe in Allah and His Messenger (49:15)
-must believe as Muhammad believes (2:137)
-must believe that Muhammad is mentioned in the previous scriptures (7:157-158)
-must obey Allah and Muhammad (48:13; 4:80)
-must forbid that which Muhammad forbids (9:29)
-must not ascribe partners to Allah (9:30)
2. "and doeth right."
-the Koran states many times that there is no greater wrong (according to Islam) than to disbelieve in Allah and his messenger. To disbelieve in Muhammad's revelations is to disbelieve in Allah's revelations. Therefore those who do not believe in Muhammad's revelations (Quran) are disbelievers and are clearly not in the category of those who "doeth right."
6:33. "We know well how their talk grieveth thee, though in truth they deny not thee (Muhammad) but evil-doers flout the revelations of Allah."
at May 20, 2007 11:31 AM
one typo (misplaced the 48:13), which I'll fix:
-must believe in Allah and the Messenger (49:15, 48:13).
-must obey Allah and Muhammad (4:80)
(click on my "name" below to see a more detailed criticism of the apologist presentation of 2:62 and 5:69).
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at May 20, 2007 11:40 AM
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