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So says Bill Gertz in "Inside the Ring" in the Washington Times (thanks to jcom):
China arming terroristsNew intelligence reveals China is covertly supplying large quantities of small arms and weapons to insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban militia in Afghanistan, through Iran.
U.S. government appeals to China to check some of the arms shipments in advance were met with stonewalling by Beijing, which insisted it knew nothing about the shipments and asked for additional intelligence on the transfers. The ploy has been used in the past by China to hide its arms-proliferation activities from the United States, according to U.S. officials with access to the intelligence reports.
Some arms were sent by aircraft directly from Chinese factories to Afghanistan and included large-caliber sniper rifles, millions of rounds of ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs, as well as other small arms.
The Washington Times reported June 5 that Chinese-made HN-5 anti-aircraft missiles were being used by the Taliban.
According to the officials, the Iranians, in buying the arms, asked Chinese state-run suppliers to expedite the transfers and to remove serial numbers to prevent tracing their origin. China, for its part, offered to transport the weapons in order to prevent the weapons from being interdicted.
The weapons were described as "late-model" arms that have not been seen in the field before and were not left over from Saddam Hussein's rule in Iraq.
U.S. Army specialists suspect the weapons were transferred within the past three months.
Read it all. It appears that the Bush Administration has been "trying to hide or downplay the intelligence reports to protect its pro-business policies toward China, and to continue to claim that China is helping the United States in the war on terrorism."
Posted by Robert at June 16, 2007 9:05 AM
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The new way to fight or actually an old way is using men by proxy, china sells arms to iran who then sends them over to hammas and the hez boys, and taliban. l can see how the UN can come out and condemm these acts. oh l forgot John Bolton was ousted by the Democrats, made too many waves at the
UN. The GOP is failing to act aggrsevily to fight this war. of course with the help of the Democrats who say you cannot fight a war rightly when you are so much superior than your enemy, its just not faire! sarc/off
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at June 16, 2007 9:52 AM
A flag-draped coffin returning from Irag or Afghanistan with MADE IN CHINA on it (in an editorial cartoon) might help clarify this issue in the public mind.
They poison our pets, our toothpaste, steal billions in tellectual property, and now this.
No surprise.
Mao lives.
Posted by: profitsbeard at June 16, 2007 9:52 AM
and to think I supported Bush in the early days.
I could puke.
Posted by: The Goobs at June 16, 2007 10:40 AM
A year ago I was shopping for a piece of industrial equipment. Potential suppliers were German, American, and Chinese. German equipment was the most expensive, American was next (~75% of the German cost), and then Chinese (~40% of the German cost).
While we have been busy helping the Sunni and Shia “get over” their historic differences, and tripping over ourselves to make the workplace safe and fair through OSHA and the EEOC, China has been working. The Chinese sales rep spoke of how China had become the most important country in the world. He might be right. If someone becomes a drain on Chinese society, they just send the execution van.
The combination of strangling regulation for Western businesses, unsustainable welfare programs, a dependent population, and the real threat posed by the Islam-WMD combo will make the 21st Century an interesting time. President Bush’s second inaugural address will be seen as the peak of something that will probably be defined as the ‘Nurturing Era’. It will be seen that Fukuyama's ‘end of history’ theory was a little premature (another Harvard PhD).
If the Constitution is suspended (see below), they won’t sell ammunition anymore at Wal Mart. If our Muslim friends with engineering degrees decide to take down the electric grid, water won’t come out of the tap and the refrigerator won’t work.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html
Posted by: pez at June 16, 2007 11:04 AM
It is no different than the U.S. arming Israel's enemies.
Posted by: The Resistance at June 16, 2007 11:57 AM
China is mercantile. They are a nuclear power and a permanent member of the UN Security Council but business is business.
That probably explains why President Bush loves them so much. How can people who work so hard and who believe in the free(?) movement of goods and services be bad?
Posted by: PMK at June 16, 2007 12:45 PM
China had the world’s most powerful navy five hundred or so years ago. Its interesting what they did with it. They burned it to avoid the temptation to waste national resources in overseas adventures.
This history, combined with the one-child policy and the tendency of Chinese families to abort daughters, makes it unlikely that China will be an expansionist power this Century. This generation and the next generation of productive Chinese workers’ energies will be focused on the care of their aging parents, not on colonizing other lands.
Russia has similar demographic problems.
The West’s biggest enemy is itself.
Posted by: pez at June 16, 2007 1:11 PM
"That probably explains why President Bush loves them so much. How can people who work so hard and who believe in the free(?) movement of goods and services be bad?"
Especially if they come with the added bonus of being able to supply slave or near-slave labour with virtually 100% plausible deniability?
Posted by: Un:dhimmi at June 16, 2007 1:14 PM
And after (or behind)Islam looms China. No matter how many duck silhouettes you knock over, there are always others that pop up. Keep on shootin' that's all we can do.
Posted by: unicorns62000 at June 16, 2007 1:18 PM
While the Bush Administration is caught in the La Brea Tar Pit of its own making, and has allowed this country to squander $880 billion dollars on Tarbaby Iraq (an amount calculated by adding up all the past and present and future committed costs, such as life-time care for seriously wounded soldiers), which is to say, more than the total cost of all the wars, save World War II, ever fought by the United States, China -- which also depends, presumably, on oil from the Middle East, for oil is fungible, and whenever supplies are cut in one place, that affects all oil-consuming nations. Yet it is the United States that has spent that $880 billion trying to bring "freedom" and "democracy" to "ordinary moms and dads" in the MIddle East, a fool's errand that a knowledge of Islam would have prevented, and a fool's errand compounded because the correct goal for the Administration is that of weakening Islam, by dividing and demoralizing Muslims, and Iraq offers both sectarian and ethnic possibilities for such that the Administration, maddingly, does not ignore -- that would be bad enough -- but rather attempts to patch up, to fix, to bring stability and prosperity and all that other stuff that it thinks Infidels, and especially Americans, have some duty to provide. It makes no sense.
It makes no sense to see the economic colonies set up, in Rome and Milan and Turin, in Como with the silk industry, to take only the cities of Italy, and in cities all over Western Europe, and even deep in sub-Saharan Africa, where Chinese economic penetration is taking place in the most surprising outposts, in a capillary-like movement, while the lumbering Americans thud-thud-thud about Iraq, and haven't any understanding, it seems, of the economic warfare now underway.
How stupid do our rulers, those "taking a leadership role," want to prove to us they can turn out to be? Just stupid, or very very very stupid?
Posted by: Hugh at June 16, 2007 1:22 PM
This fair trade is bullshit! China I always tell the children DO NOT PUT TOYS IN YOUR MOUTH CHINA HATES CHILDREN! THEY WANT US DEAD too!
Posted by: MZ at June 16, 2007 2:04 PM
You would think I would get arrested for child abuse. The things I have to tell children! Lord!
Posted by: MZ at June 16, 2007 2:06 PM
How stupid do our rulers, those "taking a leadership role," want to prove to us they can turn out to be? Just stupid, or very very very stupid?
posted by Hugh
Here's another question: how stupid do we want to prove to our rulers that WE can be? Just stupid or very stupid?
We're the ones who keep reelecting them every chance we get! We can't blame gerrymandering or anything else. We have the power to throw them out and we don't.
Posted by: PMK at June 16, 2007 2:15 PM
The logical inevitability of this has been obvious for years.
Nice to see it getting documented though. Gertz is really good at what he does.
Posted by: joeblough at June 16, 2007 2:28 PM
I am lol at Hugh's post! Leadership role! They are worse than children..NO,...I want to be the Leader..NO.., I want to be you got to be last time and still are..., I'll make a deal with you..., no I'm not going to do it!..., 10 years later ..., we NEEED MORE money someone 10 years ago did not think about all the strange people pouring into this country..., I want to be the Leader I KNOW HOW to fix it..... NO....
Oh and by the way we gave the Palistinians tons of money today to help them in their distress!
Posted by: MZ at June 16, 2007 3:36 PM
Another thing you make a good point Hugh, is we keep appeasing their accusations! They know the right buttons to push! Again like kids, give them what they want if they cry loud enough!
Just wait it is not long at all.. all the people here are catching on..the illegals got away with it. we are the only ones who don't! Law abinding citizens! Good humanitarian citizens! Yet our piggy bank that was saved for us was given to so many others who harm and hurt us! They are a real slapp in the face.. I am sick of it! Every day the dhimmi's adjust our way of living to sqeeze all these premeditated lawbraking people into our system that have trampled on our sacred land and destroyed our way of life and our very Constitution! It is appaulling! ..
at June 16, 2007 3:51 PM
We impeached Gray Davis, the governor here in California for so much less.... so much less.
Posted by: Kay at June 16, 2007 5:01 PM
This might be China's response to the US refusing to extradite even 1 Uighur terrorist captured in Afghanistan, all hard-core al-Qaida members who murdered Chinese citizens. Instead, the US let them loose, obtaining residence for them in ... Albania. Speaking of Albania, the US is actively helping Kosovar Albanian terrorists and pushing for illegal independence of Kosovo, and the lowly, lowly, lowly neocon Tom Lantos is actually bragging about it, directly addressing "jihadists of all color and hue" and boasing that "we are creating another overwhelmingly Muslim country in the very heart of Europe". Can you believe what the scoundrel is bragging about, and begging jihadists, including bin Laden to please appreciate it?
Ruslan Tokhchukov, Enragedsince1999.
Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at June 16, 2007 5:25 PM
I’m in shock and awe at the idea of a Communist country arming the enemies of the West. How dare they?
Oh yeah that’s right. We sell weapons to their enemies and they sell weapons to ours and the money goes round and round. In the meantime both sides get rich and avoid the nasty total war. Better somebody else dies using your weapons. It’s far more profitable that way.
I don’t believe for a second that Russia and China have any designs on WW3. For a start the Russians would lose if they tried to go west, and China isn’t ready for a war yet, even if they wanted one.
Even the quaint British Narrowboat market is feeling the pinch because China needs so much steel. CORUS has put up the price of steel time and time again because China is buying it all. If they back the Islamic fascists, the supply of steel etc stops and the west won’t be buying their manufactured items.
Won’t that stall their economy?
at June 16, 2007 5:33 PM
I wish we could go back being, a sovereign nation!
at June 16, 2007 6:25 PM
Well, maybe we ought to start arming Uighur insurgents--and also tell China that if the USofA learned to live with counter-revolutionary Canada almost two centuries ago, Beijing had better learn to live with Taiwan.
Posted by: Kepha at June 16, 2007 6:28 PM
Robert's right on about the downplaying, partly because of the naive & greedy markets, but partly because our intel doesn't want to alarm them too soon (read on).
Based on other intel reports you can find at http://www.WorldTribune.com http://www.geostrategy-direct.com and http://www.globalsecurity.org
http://www.debka.com
it looks like the communist occupation forces on the mainland are starting to worry that we're onto them. China is THE lynchpin in all this.
It's all summed up in one playbook.
That entire playbook is called Unretsricted Warfare, by Qiao Ling & Wang Xiangsui, top intelligence officers of the peoples liberation army.
Everything that's in the works, especially by China, and which was reported to President Bush in the CIA Threat Matrix 2001 the moment he sat down in the Oval Office...it's all in there.
Here's a short description with just a few meaty details, from a sale ad for the book:
http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdetl.cfm?&DID=6&Product_ID=885
China's military planners took credit for, & bragged about 9/11
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/24/143618.shtml
What if those two chinese intel officers who planned it were instead iragis under Saddam?
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/31/84522.shtml
Yes, they plan to run us out of the pacific rim by 2030 at the latest
(but it's more out of desperation than power-the 21st century's wars will not be fought over oil near as much as an even more crucial commodity: WATER),
according to the very same threat matrix 2001
(recall the EP-3 incident), after the EP-3 incident China went berzerk when capturing our harddrive (which was bait, too-normally if in danger of capture, the Marine aboard is ordered to KILL the crypto techs aboard to evade capture-they weren't)
& found out we'd cracked all their military codes & been reading all their military intercepts since 1974...it was a play to find out what they knew about "some upcoming big hit on the US"...a worthy gamble worth unzipping our fly for a bigger catch, but didn't work in the end as it failed to prevent 9/11.
(that's THE ONLY reason china is acting like they're on board with us against terrorism-to not do so would crash their entire PR propaganda net overnight...hence the Marine Corps adage: "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow")
A little history lesson...after mao's "great leap forward" which was anything but, zhao zhiyang realized the economy was a total disaster, ond only market reforms would save the communist occupation forces hold on the mainland from total collapse-so he did.
Problem is, "reforms" snowballed, resulting in Tiananmen Square and such, causing Zhiangs ouster by Li Peng hardliners...instead of backing off investments we westerners kept up the money flow.
(Yes, that happened before Clinton took office).
When Clinton came in, the exchange expanded into technology "sharing" (better known as espionage- recall the Lippo Group incidents), which was the ONLY reason china made it to space:
US technology (see Loral Aerospace), along with massive/major upgrades in military technology, too.
By the late 1990s, we knew china was behind something about running us out of the pacific to form their version of what failed for the imperial japanese-a "co-prosperity sphere" they controlled.
We also knew their strategy/tactics of asymmetrical warfare-playing peripherals against the middle. It was falling into place at the same time our military was being gutted en masse in the 1990s...even now we're still just getting back to the military we once had in the 1980s-and we still have a ways to go.
The problem is we still don't have enough to take on major military powers like china and her allies.
Her allies are as follows...
(though there's little quality control at this *ahem* "-pedia", most of it is quite accurate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organization
Note the map...that's THE power behind all this.
They're the ones in the shadows behind the terrorism front arrayed against the west, and the terrorists are their sock puppet as the SCO prepares for what I've referred to as "the main event".
Now is it starting to come together for you?
We can't take them all on...BUT...we can take on sector by sector, if, that's IF we can get our new toys into position in time (sorry, you'll have to guess on that part)...in the mean time, we're forced to keep the terrorists busy by sucking them into the vortex of iraq & such, draining their own resources (read that as money-without which their jihad cannot continue).
Problem is...they know that time is a factor for both sides, thus the impending plans of mass attacks by terrorists in the next 3 weeks (according to their playbook).
Remember, this isn't like a lightswitch, or a streetbar brawl setting...you can't just turn off, turn on...strategy/tactics almost never work that way. This set of parameters, we have to proceed sequentially, and carefully...same for the islamist front...
...assuming for a second ALL of islam is the enemy. Are we prepared to take on 1.5 billion terminator units who can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with, don't feel pain, pity or remorse, and absolutely will not stop until you are dead? Nope.,,but that's hypothetical.
Same for this mega-machine in the shadows.
The trick is to bring THEM out of the shadows to do their own dirty work...by taking out their sock puppets for starters...and keep the enemy, ALL of them, guessing as to what's next for us.
China is anything but a dark horse...it's been the #1 player behind this whole apparatus, so not only are we downplaying the threat of the terrorists, but that of the biggest cog in the machine.
(Good part is, india's observer status is fragile at best, and may not last much longer).
Nobody hopes more than I do that it's all for nothing...but the past few years have shown that hope all but gone.
At least we're finally, FINALLY taking notice.
(actually, the top dogs were told that if they didn't release this topic report, guys like me would.)
Personally, I'd rather spread the word & be wrong, than for us to get hit, wondering what the hell happend and why we weren't warned.
Some things are too important NOT to share,
and the terrorists long planned attack (read that as 1944 alert, ardennes forest) is merely 3 weeks away...and we're fighting with our hands tied.
God help us all.
Posted by: jcom972 at June 16, 2007 9:30 PM
Maybe the US could divert all the Jihad support it's doing in Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan, et al, and divert that all towards the Uygars. And do it in a way that makes the OIC want to support that insurrection. And once China gets pissed at the Uygars and cracks down, they can follow through against the OIC as well.
One can hope...
Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 16, 2007 10:15 PM
Pez,
Aborting duaghters means there will be an excess supply of Men, some 30-50 million men without wives over the next 50 years or so. That makes for quite huge army, eh?
at June 16, 2007 11:49 PM
OK, China is arming the Jihad boys. Reminds me of a previous war that we won. The thing that got us into the Second World War was the Tripartate Agreement between Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo followed by Pearl Harbor. What I've wondered about is what if the USA hadn't been involved (in other words, No Pearl Harbor) and the Germans and Japanese met somewhere in the middle of Asia? Both groups considered themselves to be some kind of Master Race. In that scenario, it turns out the Japanese would have been the only nuclear equipped country because the Germans couldn't solve their problems and our Manhatten Project would have been late to start.
Now, we have a similar follow-on conflict. Islam considers Communists and Fascists to be just another version of Satan. So, the Fascists (China) succeed in making the Jihadists powerful enough to drive out their enemies and then China finds themselves right next to the nuclear armed Caliphate. So, the real question to ask is what are those people in Beijing smoking?
Posted by: JeromeFromLayton at June 17, 2007 1:53 AM
This generation and the next generation of productive Chinese workers’ energies will be focused on the care of their aging parents, not on colonizing other lands.
Russia has similar demographic problems.
The West’s biggest enemy is itself.
Posted by: pez
Thank you for such a well-argued statement. I concur. Anyone who is rational ie. NOT islamic - realizes there is absolutely nothing to gain from armed conflict in today's world.
at June 17, 2007 3:32 AM
Does anyone who is getting all alarmed about China know any Chinese people? I mean more than the guy at the takeout or the delivery boy.
I can tell you they're not stupid and those whom I've really talked to speak of other countries with respect.. and sometimes frustration when it coms to islam!
THEY know more than us what the deal is, guys!
nevermind those few self-styled college radical "Asian activists". I can guarantee you, their parents are *pissed* as hell if they know what their little offspring is doing in college besides studying.
Yes they spy. So did/do the Japanese. So do we all. Including the Americans. There've been countless industrial espionage stories in Germany having to do with the Red White and Blue..
And I am NOT an anti-American spewing propaganda here. We are all doing it to some degree or other.
Not that that makes it right.
I agree we should be more careful about foodstuffs and other sensitive goods comng from China but I really think they are merely "cutting corners", rather than plotting to wipe us all out with poison toothpaste.. ring a bell anyone? I think the CIA tried that one to eliminate Castro in the 60's.
Too bad it didn't work. Neither did the poison cigar.
So let's keep it real here. We all are doing stuff behind the scenes. Including to one another.
China is NO friend of islam!!!
at June 17, 2007 3:44 AM
Of course they're not...but they ARE arming them.
They've identified US as far greater an enemy than the terrorists...and they're using them in the same sock-puppet fashion as they are north korea and others...asymmetric warfare.
(They needn't worry about the terrorists as they don't use the same rules as we do when dealing with them, and the terrorists don't account for 25%+ of the worlds GDP like the US alone does-EU accounts for almost another 25%. Yes, western powers account for over half world GDP).
(I understand your take here)
Everyone does things behind the scenes-some good, some bad, most just unnecessary evils...but unlike us, china is doing so for strictly offensive purposes, not defensive. They ARE going to strike, and the main purpose of keeping us involved with their sock-puppet friuendly enemies is to exhaust the west until they're ready...and they WILL strike, sooner or later (their history shows they tend to rise every 7-800 years-last time was the largest empire in history)...but that's another story, since it's the main event later on.
Topic bottom line...
They're arming terrorists, they have been for a very long time, and it's not chump change nickel/dime involvement either, and it accounts for a very uncomfortable amount.
Sooner or later, we'll have to deal with that, too.
at June 17, 2007 5:56 AM
brainstorming mode: what if all us "honest folk" tax payers that really don't have it in us to be liars and thieves went on strike? That's right. We'd all just stop working at the same time. For a good spell at that. It would be more difficult for some of us than others (I'd be eating canned beans for instance), but currently we are the 'new slaves' with our precious life work time be unscrupulously squandered on insanity and injustice. An umbrella site called something like 'wethepeopleNOW.com' or 'dontwaitfor08.com'could coordinate plans. It appears that corruption is a prerequisite for 'successful' politicians. I don't see anyone who speaks their mind honestly having a ghost of a chance. We the people need to take the initiative away from the wrongdoers. (There are myriad reasons this idea is flawed, but I'll keep distilling it. Please chime in.)
Posted by: volsella at June 17, 2007 10:41 AM
jcom972:
Several comments above, you wrote:
"Some things are too important NOT to share,
and the terrorists long planned attack (read that as 1944 alert, ardennes forest) is merely 3 weeks away...and we're fighting with our hands tied.
God help us all."
What are you referring to? Three weeks till WHAT happens?
Thank you,
d
Posted by: Drewbenstein at June 18, 2007 7:42 AM
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