For all the Western leaders Bush had recognize that Arafat was a terrorists, now he can connect the dots and should see that Abbas is the same but sneakeier terrorst as Arafat. Can someone let the mainstream media and or State Dept know the above facts.. it is just sheer laziness on their part not to be able to find these facts. take off your blinders leftist media!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at June 19, 2007 4:43 PM

On Yasser Arafat: “It is our duty to implement the principles of Yasser Arafat”

That is lying, deception, hypocrisy, deceit Mahmoud? What a regular snake in the grass you are.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at June 19, 2007 4:58 PM

why so complicated?
is "Abbas" a muslim?
yes
then he can never favor -to any degree Israel's existence - nor Israelis' Jews, nor same for all non-muslims and their worlds
the only people needing to discuss this - or who still haven't a clue - are useful idiots or worse

Posted by: TINBH at June 19, 2007 5:00 PM

why so complicated?
is "Abbas" a muslim?
yes
then he can never favor -to any degree Israel's existence - nor Israelis' Jews, nor same for all non-muslims and their worlds
the only people needing to discuss this - or who still haven't a clue - are useful idiots or worse

Posted by: TINBH at June 19, 2007 5:00 PM

Bush, stuck on his "two-state solution," as he is on his "Iraqi democracy--like 'ours,'" is trying to salvage the "road map" and the "peace process"--both of which are designed to further debilitate Israel, which suits Bush just fine as it will please his Saudi sponsors.

Abbas, scoundrel in a suit that he is, is more presentable to the world than the raving infidel-haters of Hamas. His Fatah, Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade, and US trained "security forces' are as much Islamic terrorists as Hamas and Hezbollah, but as Hugh puts it, of the slower more cunning kind of Jihad. The PAl's aim: destroy Israel, make the land from the Jordan to the sea Islamic.

We know Bush is an idiot--but he is the Saudis' idiot. Olmert is an idiot, but he is his own idiot--looking out for himself and his "Kadima" cronies. The government of Israel is nearly as corrupt now as that of Abbas and as was his stinking predecessor: the foul Arafat. Abbas is as foul, but he washes and scents himself to garner the plaudits of such naive idiots-savants as Condoleeza Rice and the rest of Bush crowd.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at June 19, 2007 5:09 PM

Bush, stuck on his "two-state solution," as he is on his "Iraqi democracy--like 'ours,'" is trying to salvage the "road map" and the "peace process"--both of which are designed to further debilitate Israel, which suits Bush just fine as it will please his Saudi sponsors.

Abbas, scoundrel in a suit that he is, is more presentable to the world than the raving infidel-haters of Hamas. His Fatah, Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade, and US trained "security forces' are as much Islamic terrorists as Hamas and Hezbollah, but as Hugh puts it, of the slower more cunning kind of Jihad. The Pal's aim: destroy Israel, make the land from the Jordan to the sea Islamic.

We know Bush is an idiot--but he is the Saudis' idiot. Olmert is an idiot, but he is his own idiot--looking out for himself and his "Kadima" cronies. The government of Israel is nearly as corrupt now as that of Abbas and as was his stinking predecessor: the foul Arafat. Abbas is as foul, but he washes and scents himself to garner the plaudits of such naive idiots-savants as Condoleeza Rice and the rest of Bush crowd.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at June 19, 2007 5:10 PM

If it don't work once, it will work twice.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at June 19, 2007 5:13 PM

Abbas, he may be a bastard, but dammit, he's OUR bastard!!!!

Posted by: ThinkForYourself at June 19, 2007 5:54 PM

Possibly Fouad Ajami's finest hour on television is the time that he appeared being interviewed by Dan Rather. Rather asked him about the "secularism" of Saddam Hussein. Ajami got up, and said in a voice meant to be that of Saddam Hussein, with a heavy Arabic accent, while pointing first to Dan Rather's pants, and then to his own: "You wear pants. I wear pants."

That's it. That was the "western" and "secular" content of Saddam Hussein. We wear pants. He wears pants.

I still don't forgive Fouad Ajami his enthusiasm for Tarbaby Iraq (but his Shi'a, even his al-Sistani, got their wish, and the Americans did get rid of Saddam Hussein and the Sunni Arab despotism that had been disguised as "Ba'athism") nor his consistent failure to address Islam -- for god's sake, a little coming out of the closet re Islam is a tall order, but a few more people had beter start filling that order, now that Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq and Wafa Sultan have arrived on the scene to show how it's done. And among those who should declare the truth, even if he cannot go back to Kuwait and the hospitality of assorted advanced, freethinking behbehanis, or visit similar hosts in similar places, is Fouad Ajami.

But no matter how long he lives, men will still say of Fouad Ajami that this was his finest hour:

"You wear pants. I wear pants."

Immortal. And tailor-made for Bartlett's.

Posted by: Hugh at June 19, 2007 5:59 PM

And, as an addendum to any future pataphysics, I should have added that something like that telling remark about Saddam Hussein's so-called "secularism" could be made about the be-suited casper-milquetoast (outwardly, for inwardly he's up to his neck in blood) Mahmoud Abbas, and his hiring of this or that so-called "technocrat" of impeccably technocratic credentials, does not disguise the fact that Fatah, the PLO that lies behind Fatah, and the "Palestinian Authority" is not dedicated to true compromise and certainly not to permanent peace, and it couldn't possibly do so. What it is dedicated to is the well-being, first of all, of the made men, the Fatah mobsters who depend on the Infidel Jizyah to pay their salaries, to buy them those guns and balaklavas and boots just made not for walking but for goosestepping, strutting their stuff up and down the main boulevards of broken dreams, those dreams being those of bloody conquest and triumph over "the Jews," whether the marches are staged in Ramalllah or Nablus, as they no longer will be -- not by Fatah but by its slightly less worldly, and slightly more fanatical twin brother, Hamas.

For god's sake, Albert Speer was an "architect" and Ley an "economist." But Speer and Ley were both working for the triumph of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime. Surely that is what counts.

And the goal of Mahmoud Abbas, and Mohammad Dahlan, and Mahmoud Barghouti, and all the tie-and-suited men who are supposed to create the impression of dull and unaggressive competence, are just as malevolent, in their view of Israel, as anyone, but are cleverer in their realism, and in their choice of tactics and of timing.

That's it. Slow Jihad or Fast Jihad. Both aiming for the same result, one by the direct route, and the other -- taking a slightly more scenic and winding route, so as to provide something to attract the Western tourists, while their pockets are being picked or, just as bad, being voluntarily emptied.

Posted by: Hugh at June 19, 2007 6:08 PM

Good organizations usually have some sort of ‘theory-to-practice’ routine where ideas are put to the test, the results are viewed objectively, and everybody learns something.

We’ve had decades of theory-to-practice to study all kinds of things. We refuse to face the facts because the truth is just too ugly for a democratically elected government to act upon. So we send money.

‘He is the leader of all of the Palestinian people, he has spoken out for moderation’
-President Bush today

You see, ‘moderation’ is the $86 million dollar word.

Hamas has been ‘bad’ so they only get $40 million of American money, and can only buy food.

The human suffering will be unmatched when this bill finally comes due. We have created a completely dependent mass of violent people. One day the kitchens will close and the human genome will take over.

Posted by: pez at June 19, 2007 6:26 PM

The comment above is typical of the tactics of the mendacious poseur who goes by the name of the "Rev." Jim Sutter. He apparently thinks that a sneer at the ZOA is sufficient to outweigh all the evidence that it marshalls in this press release as to what Abbas is doing.

But he is not always so eager to follow the lead of US officials. When they named CAIR as an unindicted co-conspirator in a terror funding case, laying bare the hollowness of their condemnations of terror of which the good "Rev. Jim" makes so much, you did not hear the pseudo-Reverend urging the sheep to accept blindly the judgments of their betters, as he does in the post above.

Posted by: jihadwatch at June 19, 2007 6:50 PM

Speaking of preachin’...

And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

…

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The majority of the kill-zone for a nuclear explosion in Tel Aviv is actually in the West Bank and lands to the east. The shock wave would be the primary kill mechanism in Tel Aviv. The wind-blown fallout settling to the east would blanket the Arab lands with gamma and neutron emitting radioisotopes, which would literally consume people as they stood.

Posted by: pez at June 19, 2007 7:28 PM

Of course he doesn't deserve a damned thing...he's nothing more than a clone of one of histories most evil terrorists: yasser arafat

Posted by: jcom972 at June 19, 2007 7:43 PM

As least the "reverand" had the decency to ignore the numerous examples in the article and site groups like the UN, the EU and the US(under the current administration), all three that lack any credibility anmongst the sane.

"Jim Sutter", the moniker, preaches about attacking all forms of hate with, ironically, hateful and unfounded accusations. We all know his pro-Islamic stance and the obvious financial backers of his "cause".

Last time I checked there was one commenter in total at his site. May I suggest that it is a good start "Jim", but you might be better served spending more time there and less here, spreading your word and attracting a loyal following. Maybe "two or three people in the world" gullible enough to fall for your ruse.

P.S. Nice "picture of you" in the military garb with the blue screen backdrop. At least you seem to have a sense of humor.

Posted by: awake at June 19, 2007 8:57 PM

Got to agree with the ZOA here. What’s with this Abbas is our friend nonsense? The softhearted Israelis amaze me – or should I have said “soft-headed”? Have they never heard of divide & conquer? The Palestinians have already done the first part: they have stupidly divided themselves. Big opportunity now to settle matters with these Islamic killer-zombies for good. The Israelis can now push most of the Gaza’s death-to-Israel population into the Mediterranean with tanks & bulldozers and annex the land. Then the Israelis can go after the death-to-Israel Fattah in the West Bank with as much mercy as they would have shown the Israelis.

Is there some big sappy-nice-guy contest going on in the middle east I haven’t heard of that the Israelis are competing in?

Posted by: FM at June 19, 2007 9:20 PM

Everybody repeat after me: "Mahmoud Abbas IS A TERRORIST THUG!!"

It's the truth.

And it was exposed for the whole world to see here on this blog at least a year ago.

If only the US State Department could understand this.

The situation concerning Abbas may also have something to do with the fact that there is no such thing as moderate Islam. And those who uphold Islam can not be moderate either.

(Palestine clearly does NOT deserve independence anyway since sovereignty is un-Islamic. To hell with the Pallies and their stone-throwing savages).

Posted by: pythagoras at June 19, 2007 9:28 PM

@ unicorns62000: If it don't work once, it will work twice.

Okay, Fatah/Abbas couldn't save itself with the first $2 billion, maybe they could with the next billion. Either that or Swiss bankers are rubbing their hands together and licking their chops.

Posted by: Jabba the Tutt at June 19, 2007 11:12 PM

"Mahmoud Abbas Is No Moderate & Deserves No Support"

As unpopular as it might be, I believe Olmert is correct in taking sides with Abass against Hamas. How would Israel profit by taking a hard line against both sides in this conflict?

If there is even a miniscule chance that Abass is sincere in wanting to reach an agreement with Israel, It makes sense that Olmert should gamble that he is sincere.

This stand off between Israel and the Palestinians has been going on for 60 years, but it can't go on for another 60 years. Like it or not, time is not on Israel's side. Time is on the side of the Arab's and their Muslim allies throughout the world.

The day is comming when Israel will be facing a nuclear armed Islamic power(s) bent on its total destruction, and Israel's 100 Atom bombs won't save it, or resurrect it after it's obliteration (it probably wouldn't take more than two or three nuclear bombs to wipe Israel .

If there's the slightest chance that Israel can come to some agreement with a Palestinian government, they should take that chance. And if thar means making some difficult concesstions to the Palestinians, they should make those concessions in return for an ironclad peace treaty, and recognition of Israel's right to exist by Its Arab neighbors (which they have promised to do when peace is established between Israel and a Palestinian State.)

This is not to argue that Arabs, or Muslims, or Palestinians are trustworthy. I don't particuarly trust them myself. But it's not inconceivable that there might be some on the Palestinian and Arab sides that genuinely want peace with Israel (I'm thinking of President Sadat of Egypt who gave his life because he recognized the state of Israel, and King Hussein of Jordan who I believe was a genuine man of peace who had a great deal of empathy for the Jewish people).

For all I know, Abass might turn out to be a bum, but someones got to take a chance at some point to get this situation off dead center, as its been on for generations now.

As I've said, time is not on Israels side, so Israel's go to take a chances now, or pay a terrible price somewhere down the road.

If Olmert's and Bush's support for Abass turns out to be a mistake, they'll have at least tried, and no one can say they didn't.

Posted by: rational at June 20, 2007 1:19 AM

But, but, George W. Bush says that he is a "man of peace." Would Mr. Bush....lie? :(

Posted by: paradox at June 20, 2007 1:23 AM

Abbas, he may be a bastard, but dammit, he's OUR bastard!!!!
Posted by: ThinkForYourself

And that's exactly why Bush/Rice will give him big buck's. He is not exactly 'our' bastard, but he certainly is their's. Abbas doe's not like Bush/Rice, but he will take 'our' money. He 'need's' it. We cant expect Bush?Rice to give him any of their's.
(The question mark betwen Bush?Rice was a typo, but I decided to leave it, because I think they are the same person. They only look different due to modern technology and make up).
I dont want to put anyone on a bummer, but I think the bulk of the 86 million, will go into Abbas and company pocket's, and only a paltry sum will go for weapon's and training. The money will stay with Abbas, and the weapon's to Hamas...When Hamas run's Abbas out of town, it wont be long untill Bush?Rice will send yet more money.
Bush has done so much for America, and 'Palestine' it's phenomenal...I think the 'Palestinian's' should declare him a national hero. Israel is considering giving Abbas over 500 million, but Isreal has been witholding it Since Hamas got elected and may be a little slow. So what is a cornered rat supposed to do? I know what I would do, I would grab that cash, and jump in the waiting heliocopter, and make a mad dash for the border. Final destination, to a secure, undisclosed, location. But one well stocked with everything a multiple, multiple, jillionaire could need, want, or desire.
Of course that's just me. I have not submitted to Allah, as has Abbas. Abbas will probably stay in power as long as possible, and then run like hell.
He will claim it is a pilrimage to Mecca, but then he will diasapear...

Posted by: duh_swami at June 20, 2007 2:26 AM

At any rate, Bush could not have done Abbas a worse favour than to designate him as America's Man in Palestine. Considering how any politically minded Pali feels towards America and the West, this is as much as to draw a target on his back. Any semblance of popular support will from henceforth fade away, and, like most Arab tyrants, he will have to rely on mercenary troops and torturing security forces to keep power. His position will be open both to conspiracies among his own "supporters" and to open revolt from Hamas and elsewhere; but until and unless Hamas triumphs in the West Bank (which I cannot see happening), the whole Palestinian entity will be reduced to creeping civil war and inefficient, destructive tyranny. If I thought there was anything like a Machiavellian spirit in the current administration, I would say that they intended to ruin both sides.

Posted by: Paolo at June 20, 2007 4:21 AM

Posted by: rational

If Olmert's and Bush's support for Abass turns out to be a mistake, they'll have at least tried, and no one can say they didn't.

How how many have tried in the last 60 years before Olmert and Bush

On this day June 19
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-this-day-june-20.html

Posted by: shiva at June 20, 2007 4:32 AM

...Muslims do not honor agreements or treaties, even when with other Muslims...I do not trust any of them....

no agreements, no treaties, no peace accords, and no more foreign aide (jiyzah)....not one more dime....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at June 20, 2007 6:43 AM

rational posts:

"As unpopular as it might be, I believe Olmert is correct in taking sides with Abass against Hamas. How would Israel profit by taking a hard line against both sides in this conflict?

If there is even a miniscule chance that Abass is sincere in wanting to reach an agreement with Israel, It makes sense that Olmert should gamble that he is sincere."

Sorry "rational," for the reasons laid out in this article, cozying up with any of these snakes is not rational. Abbas is Arafat Jr. and he has even written his PhD thesis and book denying the holocaust--and justifying the homicide bombers. What is rational about dealing with that?

Posted by: BB at June 20, 2007 8:39 AM

"rational" posts:

"As unpopular as it might be, I believe Olmert is correct in taking sides with Abass against Hamas. How would Israel profit by taking a hard line against both sides in this conflict?

If there is even a miniscule chance that Abass is sincere in wanting to reach an agreement with Israel, It makes sense that Olmert should gamble that he is sincere."

Sorry "rational," for the reasons laid out in this article, cozying up with any of these snakes is not rational. Abbas is Arafat Jr. and he has even written his PhD thesis and book denying the holocaust--and justifying the homicide bombers. What is rational about allying with that?

Posted by: BB at June 20, 2007 8:41 AM

BB, shiva

What's the alternative, perpetual war? It's the most rational thing in the world to make a stab at peace, no matter how many times it's failed before.

No one has to trust Abass, all they have to do is get his signature on a peace treaty, and be recognized by the other Arab states.

Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorists organizations won't recognize a peace treaty, but, at least, Israel will have won a moral victory by officially settling their differences with a Palestinian State and it's Muslim allies.

If Israel's have to hold their noses when signing a peace treaty with the Palestinians, so be it.

As I've said before, and I'll say again, Time is not on Israel's side!!! Perpetual conflict could mean eventual destruction of Israel.

Posted by: rational at June 20, 2007 10:45 AM

Bush/Ohlmert have missed the ideal oppertunity to end the whole pali issue. All they had to do was keep withholding money/aid/jizya, let the civil war continue until there are none left but a few ragtag survivors.

Annex the West Bank and Gaza and ship the survivors off to live in Arab countries as citizens or refugees or whatever the arabs want to call them.

Make a pre-emptive strike on the arab/persian air forces (ala 1967), and finish it.

Posted by: walterc at June 20, 2007 10:58 AM

"No one has to trust Abass [sic], all they have to do is get his signature on a peace treaty..."
-- from a posting above

And then? Israel has signed tbe 1949 Armistice Accords. The Arab states violated those accords. It relied on assurances made by Egypt in exchange for Israel's withdraal from the Sinai in 1956. Eghpt violated every single one of those assurances. Israel made all sorts of interim agreements with various Arab states after the Six-Day War and they were all violated by the Arab side. Then came the Camp David Accords, by which Israel obligated itself to make tangible concessions of land and infrastructure, and in three slices handed over the entire Sinai, with three major airfields Israel had built, and oil fields it had developed, and even the resort of Sharm el-Sheik. Egypt, in turn, only had to refrain from hostile behavior and had to agree to encourgae friendly relations with Israel. Egypt, however, in every conceivable way failed to meet its solemn commitments.

It could not have been otherwise. According to Islamic jurisprudence, there can be no permanent peace between Believers and Infidels. Temporary accords may be necesary, when the Muslim side is too weak, but as soon as the Muslim side feels itself strong enough, it must break the agreement and renew hostlities. The model for this is the accord made in 628 A.D. by Muhammad with the Meccans, at Al Hudaibiyya. Google that name "Al Hudaibiyya" and "Majid Khadduri" and you will find more on the subject.

It is not treaties, but the ability of Israel to deliver greater damage to its enemies, that keeps the peace between Arabs and Israel. That, and only that. And that can only be maintained if Israel is not pushed back further into what have been called "the lines of Auschwitz." It would merely whet, not sate, Arab appetites for Israel to ever yield control of the "West Bank," its invasion routes, its aquifers on which Israel depends, and to shrink back to the pre-1967 armistice lines, which the Arabs demand.

It would make no sense.

Posted by: Hugh at June 20, 2007 8:51 PM

Dear Hugh

much thanks for your masterly summary just posted, re. the 'auschwitz borders' and the rest of it.

There is a federal election fast approaching in Australia.

My sitting federal MP and the PM and the Leader of the Opposition will be getting letters from me in which I will be making it quite, quite clear that the top 2 issues deciding my vote will be 1. the Defence against the Jihad and 2. whether or not my elected representative, or the person seeking to be my Prime Minister, has the guts to defy the current murderous Zeitgeist and...stand with Israel (at which point, I will sheet home some of Mr Fitzgerald's invaluable observations and data points). I urge all fellow Australians who read or post here, and who agree with the points Hugh is making about Israel, to do likewise.

Australian troops helped break the hold of the Ottoman Empire over the Holy Land in 1916-1917. Australia voted Yes for Partition in 1947. I hope we can somehow find the courage to stand with Israel EVEN IF the USA should decide to sacrifice her to the jihad crocodile. I will be telling my politicians that even if Israel or the USA DID NOT EXIST, the jihadists would still hate Australia and desire to conquer and plunder us, solely because we are an Infidel nation that is not subject to one of their horrid tyrants. So: we might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb.

To all Jewish and American lurkers and posters: speaking as an Australian, my feeling about Israel and also about our relationship with the USA [despite the egregious follies and sins that both have most assuredly at times committed] is summed up by the words of the King of the Rohirrim in Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings", upon hearing the appeal from the Steward of Gondor : "I will come. For if the Mundburg falls, where will we flee from the Darkness?".

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 20, 2007 10:56 PM

This is what we get for being so nice and not using force. America and Israel have the power to destroy whom they want, when they want and how they want. We are cutting our noses off to spite our faces if we do not respond to evil. If Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry Truman worried about so called "innocent civilians" and "collateral damage," Americans today would be speaking German and singing praises to the Fuhrer! So George and Ehud quit trying to be so nice. We are no longer being brain washed into believing that we must "win over the hearts and minds of the Arab and Muslim world." If I hear that despicable phrase again, I will need a barf bag. Who needs to win "hearts" that want to destroy everything American, Christian and Jewish? Who needs to win over evil minds that cherish suicide bombers, beheadings and death? Frankly we should be more concerned about stopping their hearts from beating!

Golda Meir astutely summed up Israel's precarious position in the Middle East, "The Muslims can fight and lose, then come back and fight again. But Israel can only lose once." Ehud Olmert’s indecisiveness, the ineptness of a politically appointed general and failure to immediately go all out to defeat Hezbollah has inspired the entire Muslim world to believe now is the time to attack and destroy Israel. The IDF paid a heavy price for Israeli "appeasers" giving back southern Lebanon in the hope of peace. The country is also paying heavily for the Muslim mentality created by unilaterally giving over Gaza to Palestinians who had never kept one part of the "Road to Peace" agreements.
Muslim radicals, more than any enemy we have yet faced, view every act of appeasement as a weakness.
We should learn from the words of Winston Churchill. After England's liberal government capitulated to Adolf Hitler at Munich in 1938, Churchill prophetically warned the British people, "This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year. …" His words are even truer today. No concession to Iran's mullahs, no overtures of peace to the terror masters in Damascus and Tehran, no appeasement of Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad will ever be enough to bring peace. These things only spur them to bolder demands. Their holiest book, the Quran, spells out their methods of deception and attack.
After the disastrous response of the free world to the criminal taking of British seamen hostage, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has issued even more outrageous threats to the West. In the words of Gary Bauer summing up Ahmadinejad's threats, '"If the West continues to object to its [Iran's] march toward an Islamic bomb, Iran will be forced to withdraw from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.' In other words, emboldened by our weakness, Iran now implicitly threatens to transfer its nuclear technology to al-Qaida."
The cup it offers us is bitter indeed!

Posted by: Leah at June 21, 2007 7:26 AM