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They've done a lot of research on it, but what it is they're still not sure. (Thanks, Bob.)
There I go again, making light of a serious, serious problem. Sherene Hassan, an executive committee member of the Islamic Council of Victoria, is enraged -- enraged -- that people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali who speak about female genital mutilation and honor killing as if they're Muslim problems, when people other than Muslims practice them.
I know how she feels. The other day a friend of mine was going 90 in a 60 zone, and cars were still zooming past him. When the highway patrolman stopped him for speeding, he pointed out to him that there were plenty of cars going faster -- and that meant he wasn't speeding, right? Right?
"Islamophobia is a disease," by Sherene Hassan in the Herald Sun, with thanks to Doc Washburn:
...Things were looking up for Muslims. I noticed with some relief that we had managed to avoid the headlines for four consecutive weeks.This dramatically changed in the aftermath of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's scathing attack on Islam's treatment of women two weeks ago.
Now more than ever, Islam has become inextricably linked with misogyny.
Ali's chilling account of the mutilation she was forced to endure as a child rang alarm bells across the nation, and rightly so.
This deplorable act warrants nothing less than unequivocal condemnation.
But the Islamophobic onslaught by talkback callers after her visit was disturbing.
You may have missed Ali noting that female genital mutilation predated Islam because this was almost never emphasised. This, however, does not make it any less true.
Evidence from mummies suggests that female circumcision originated in the Nile valley 4000 years ago.
To this day, it is practised in parts of Africa by some Muslims and Christians and animist tribes.
So what? If Christians and animists practice female genital mutilation in Africa, that should be energetically opposed in all possible ways. However, making sure to point out that some Christians and animists also practice this barbarity does nothing to mitigate the destructive force of the approval given to it by some high Islamic authorities. While many say that there is nothing in Islam which requires female genital mutilation, one of Sunni Islam’s “Four Great Imams,” Ahmad ibn Hanbal (from whom the Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence takes its name) quotes Muhammed as saying “Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women.”
The Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female genital mutilation obligatory. The Hanbalis consider it not obligatory but sunnah -- accepted practice. The Hanafis consider it "a mere courtesy to the husband" ('Umdat al-Salik e4.3).
This gives female genital mutilation an official sanction that it does not enjoy in other contexts, making it much more difficult to eradicate. But Sherene Hassan, instead of acknowledging all this and trying to deal with it, just points the finger at others.
Nevertheless, Ali's broader message especially as popularly understood, remains clear.Islam is responsible for perpetuating this vicious practice as evidenced by the Somali imams in her village.
They insisted on it, she said, to "keep girls pure". Ali is far less forthcoming about the Christian and animist tribes who do the same.
But it seems we are only comfortable thinking of female genital mutilation as an "Islamic practice."
The same might be said of so-called honour killings, which as fate would have it, also found their way into the headlines last week.
The Daily Telegraph in Britain revealed that 20-year-old Kurd Banaz Mahmod was murdered and buried in a back garden because her parents disapproved of her relationship with an Iranian man.
The report drew a link between honour killings and Islam. It said some Muslim communities in Britain practised sharia law and there was an increase in observance of sharia law partly because of "the rise of Islamic fundamentalism".
But, here again, we are talking about a pre-Islamic multi-faith phenomenon.
Honour killings have their roots in ancient Hammurabi and Assyrian law.
In the UK, officials state that Italian and Greek migrant families have committed similar atrocities.
Is that so? I suppose it's possible, but in any case, here again: Italian and Greek migrant families are almost certainly Christian, and thus are transgressing the Christian prohibition of murder when they commit honor killings. By way of contrast, you may recall that the Jordanian Parliament declined on Islamic grounds to stiffen penalties for honor killings. Unless and until Sherene Hassan confronts this, no amount of "Islamophobia"-crying will do anything to end female genital mutilation and honor killing among Muslims.
Posted by Robert at June 25, 2007 8:12 AM
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"You may have missed Ali noting that female genital mutilation predated Islam because this was almost never emphasised. This, however, does not make it any less true."
The Hajj predated Islam as well, does that make the Hajj unIslamic?
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at June 25, 2007 8:53 AM
Islam is the disease and we have the cure....
Posted by: Timur at June 25, 2007 9:05 AM
I have a cure Robert. You need more cowbell.
Posted by: wrathofasma at June 25, 2007 9:15 AM
I got a fever and the prescription is more cowbell.
More cowbell, baby. I gotta have more cowbell.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 25, 2007 9:15 AM
wrath of asma - :)) what are the odds?
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 25, 2007 9:17 AM
If I understand this correctly, what they're saying is that to blame Islam alone for something that is also practiced by others is bigotted. In theory, this sounds reasonable. Hopefully, this will also mean that we will also stop blaming white people and western culture for racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery, religious extremism, etc., and acknowledge that these evils also have existed outside the west.
Yes, Robert, you need more cowbell, which would be permissible under the Sharia, which does not permit pigbell.
Posted by: Bigfoot at June 25, 2007 9:22 AM
"islamophobia is a disease"
- then this means islam is the virus and muslims the vectors
at June 25, 2007 9:27 AM
"The Hajj predated Islam as well, does that make the Hajj unIslamic?"
Interesting question. I've read that some fanatics did indeed believe that the Hajj was unIslamic, and (for a short time) they banned the Hajj. The Hajj was re-instated, however, when those who had banned it discovered that their revenue stream was drying up. The "pilgrimage" brings in lots and lots of money into the country (S. Arabia doesn't produce much of anything and needs revenue -- this was before the discovery of oil). So, anyway, the Hajj was brought back...(too profitable to abandon).
(O/T I don't get the cowbell references...)
Posted by: J.S. at June 25, 2007 9:31 AM
the virus causing the disease is curable - with strong radiation treatment
Posted by: TINBH at June 25, 2007 9:34 AM
(O/T I don't get the cowbell references...)
Posted by: J.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Cowbell
This might explain.
Posted by: Jihadtobejoking at June 25, 2007 9:58 AM
Many things pre-date islam, yet are intrinsically embedded in it. For example, murder, rape, misogyny and military and demographic conquest all pre-date islam, but all have been incorporated into islamist doctrine simply because they are manifestations of the most base instincts of Man to which islam appeals. Whereas Christianity faces an uphill battle by exhorting the individual to go against his baser instincts, islam preaches that the individual do quite the opposite - to surrender to the innate violent and sexual urges that men have. And you can see why. History, and common sense, both indicate that conquest is better achieved through aggression, both sexual and military, than through appeals to saintly virtue as the early Christians advocated. Since mohammad was a warlord, his system of governance reflects this logic. Had it not been for the Roman Emperor Constantine making Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire, and by extension, giving it the gravitas of the world's most powerful institution, Christianity might very well not have survived to this day, based as it is on self-sacrifice and sexual restraint, both counter-instinctual for survival. Islam, on the other hand, went the other way.
Posted by: jihadwatcher
at June 25, 2007 10:00 AM
I posted a comment on that Australian newspaper saying "Hey, if you want to see a list of some Islamic male muck-a-mucks who have APPROVED FGM for Muslim females, go to Jihad Watch and read the article posted today. These "Approvals" inextricably connect Islam and FGM. Furthermore, any Christians who practice FGM are Africans. This has everything to do with tribal patriarchal misogyny, and nothing to do with Christianity, nothing."
Yeah, I don't get "cowbell," either.
Posted by: darcy at June 25, 2007 10:02 AM
That's a great post, jihadwatcher. Makes perfect sense. All of the aggression and conquest commands in the Koran have everything to do with Muhammed being a Warlord.
I suppose Attila the Hun could have written the Koran, too?
Posted by: darcy at June 25, 2007 10:08 AM
I had no idea of the Blue Oyster Cult reference (at the Wikipedia link) and have never heard of this "catchphrase."
Rather, I had thought that because of my Bob Dylan link above, the posters were referring to this anecdote from Kenny Buttrey, the drummer on Dylan's "Nashville Skyline" album:
"I have very vivid memories of 'Lay Lady Lay.' He was playing it down in the studio and usually I just sit down on the drums and start doodling around until something comes as far as a drum pattern, but [with] this particular one nothing came to mind instantly. Sometimes when that happens I go to the artist and say what do you hear on the drums because sometimes when people write songs they can hear it completed, they hear everything they think's gonna be on it... I went over to Dylan and said I'm having a little trouble thinking of something to play. Do you have any ideas on this song? He just kind of looked back, he didn't really know either, he was just trying to think of something and he said, 'Bongos.' I said, 'What??' He said, 'Bongos.' I went, 'Okay.' I immediately disregarded that, I couldn't hear bongos in this thing at all, so [I thought] I'll go and ask Bob Johnston. So I walked into the control booth and said, 'Bob, what do you hear as regards the drum on this thing?' And he just sort of rolled his eyes back, he didn't have any answers ready either, and he came out and said, 'Cowbells.' I said, 'What??' He said, 'Cowbells.' I went back up to the studio and Kris Kristofferson was working Columbia Studios at the time as a janitor and he had just emptied my ashtray at the drums and I said, 'Kris, do me a favor, here, hold these two things.' There was a real cheap bongo set sitting in a corner, the heads were untunable. I just put my cigarette lighter in the drum itself to make it a higher pitch, and there was a cowbell just lying in the utility room. There was one overhead mike on the drums that was for the whole kit and I swung it over to the bass tom-tom and I said, 'Kris, hold these bongos in one hand and the cowbells in the other,' and I swung this mike over to the cowbells and the bongos and about that time somebody said, 'Hey, let's cut this thing.' I had no pattern or anything worked out. I just told Kris, 'This is one of those spite deals. I'm gonna show 'em how bad their idea's gonna sound.' I was combining Bob Johnston's idea and Bob Dylan's idea. We started playing the tune and I was just doodling around on these bongos and the cowbell and it was kinda working out pretty cool. I'm still trying to figure out something, and come chorus time I'd go to to the set of drums. Next time you hear that [cut], listen how far off-mike the drums sound. There were no mikes on the drums, it was just leakage. In those days I was only afforded the luxury of one overhead mike, one bass mike. But it worked out pretty good. It was the very first take and to this day it's one of the best drum patterns I ever came up with. Every time I hear that, I keep thinkin' how accidental that thing came. It came from nowhere."
Posted by: jihadwatch at June 25, 2007 10:08 AM
"...Things were looking up for Muslims. I noticed with some relief that we had managed to avoid the headlines for four consecutive weeks. "
Wrong, wrong, wrong!
It's more like four stories every day, every week! One in four weeks would be a good week for us too!
at June 25, 2007 10:17 AM
All of the aggression and conquest commands in the Koran have everything to do with Muhammed being a Warlord.
You're catching on.
Posted by: jihadwatcher at June 25, 2007 10:20 AM
Sherene Hassan said, “In the UK, officials state that Italian and Greek migrant families have committed similar atrocities.”
Oh really, Ms. Hassan? Prove it. I want to know who the UK officials are and what department they came from that they have the knowledge to make such a statement, that said Italian & Greek communities are just like the Muslims? Where can the records be found and what did these alleged records say?
Were these alleged records by chance circa 1945? When the Greeks & Italians were still a bit sensitive about Greek & Italian women collaborating with the Germans? Just wondering?
I know the Greek community in London well and I have NEVER EVER heard of such acts occurring before. So, Ms. Hassan either site your source for this quote so that it can be verified or rescind your statement and issue an apology to the Greek and Italian communities that you used as a deliberate diversion from the hideous Medieval practice of Honour Killings that your own backwards culture embrace in it’s repeated subjugation of women.
at June 25, 2007 10:26 AM
Here is a link to how islam considers women's nature to be "twisted"
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25967_Video-_Our_Friends_the_Misogynistic_Saudis&only
at June 25, 2007 10:41 AM
The existence of such a barbaric practice in the 21st century is utterly appalling.
So says Ms. Hassan.
So if that is what she really believes then why not campaign to get all Muslims to discontinue this "barbaric practice"?
By complaining that it was pre-Islamic and so should not be associated with Islam all she does is say that Muslims cannot move beyond what was common practice (if it ever really was) in the seventh century. It's been fourteen hundred years.
"I am not averse to robust discussion to attempt to find solutions to the problems plaguing some Muslim nations, but it is vital that any discourse involves discussion with mainstream Muslims."
Ms. Ali's story was just that: an attempt to stir discussion with mainstream Muslims. She can't reach all of you by going face to face. She put this issue out for you to see. Well, you've been involved. If you're a mainstream Muslim and you find this practice so appalling what are you going to do about it? Why aren't you offended by the idea that Muslims are engaging in "such a barbaric practice"? Pointing to the tribes in Africa who also engage in this practice doesn't absolve Muslims of their own responsibility for sanctioning and maintaing FGM in accordance with their own religious tenets.
If you find it appalling, then you should be willing to do something without pointing to others and without making excuses. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Posted by: PMK at June 25, 2007 10:58 AM
Whoa, thanks for quoting me, jihadwatcher! So, Attila the Hun could've come up with the Koran, too?
And concerning that Warlord Muhammed, I just visited the faithfreedom site to order Ali Sina's book, "Understanding Muhammed," and saw that the book has been WITHDRAWN!
Boo-hoo, I'm very disappointed. Mr. Spencer, is there anywhere we can order the book?
Posted by: darcy at June 25, 2007 11:08 AM
The video at LGF is very educational, as it explains how women are all just emotion driven bimbos without a brain in their heads, and how muslim men must protect them.
The guy picking his nose in the background is somewhat distracting, though.
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at June 25, 2007 12:16 PM
So, Attila the Hun could've come up with the Koran, too?
In theory, anyone can found a cult. Even Charles Manson. He didn't get too far globally. He only recruited hippy chicks. Fortunately, today we have laws prohibiting the actions of cults so that they don't spread by the sword.
In the case of Attila the Hun, the Huns had little in the way of written language. If you want to write a book, your culture needs to have that basic requirement. To create a pathological, sexually deviant cult like Islam, however, one needs a really special kind of guy, and a special kind of people to embrace it.
Posted by: jihadwatcher at June 25, 2007 12:39 PM
I suppose Attila the Hun could have written the Koran, too?
Posted by: darcy
Attila the Hun was not the devil incarnate. Only the devil incarnate could cobble together the Ko-rant!
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at June 25, 2007 12:42 PM
@darcy
No need to read a whole book to "Understand Muhammad."
Craziness, sexual perversions, Jew-hatred and misogyny, violent intolerance, spittle-emitting, carpet-chewing obscenity-filled rages against imaginary foes are not be understood but extirpated!
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at June 25, 2007 12:47 PM
Deflection. Obfuscation. Lies. Tu Quoque. BS.
That's all the Islamofascists and apologists ever come up with. Downright stupid.
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/06/19/islamophobia-is-a-disease/
We are waiting for your ‘nuanced’ approach, Sherene! With baited breath!
* You know something Sherene: Why should we infidels take the word of some Islamic female if her witness is only worth half of a man’s? Besides, the cat is out of the bag. We have eyes and ears, and every day there are less of us who would have twits like you pull the wool over our eyes and ears…
at June 25, 2007 1:21 PM
i think Sherene Hassan is seriously conflicted, and a little sympathy might be in order here ?
after all, she did describe Hilaly's infamous meat remarks as "absolutely repulsive", which must have required some courage, and about which there are some interesting comments at:
http://austrolabe.com/2006/10/25/guilty-meat-but-innocent-cats/
for example item 30 from Ihsan.
she knows the mess she is in, but she does not see a way out of it. sad.
at June 25, 2007 5:38 PM
The best (if not ONLY) cure for 'Islamophobia' is to get rid of Islam!
Posted by: pythagoras at June 26, 2007 3:51 PM
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