"Hani al-Hassan, the Palestinian president's senior political advisor and member of Fatah's central committee said in a TV interview that what was happening in the Gaza Strip was the defeat of to plans of American Major General Keith Dayton and his Fatah followers."

Oops there goes another Muslim moderate.

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at June 28, 2007 8:41 AM

I guess Israel is just like we are here in the U.S. What our politicians say and do doesn't necessarily reflect what the general populace thinks and feels.

Cinder

Posted by: Cinder at June 28, 2007 9:39 AM

Cinder,

"I guess Israel is just like we are here in the U.S. What our politicians say and do doesn't necessarily reflect what the general populace thinks and feels."

Yep, and every other western country. I guess it's true that you must have to go through muslim appeasement/grovel training, or something, before you get to be a politician.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at June 28, 2007 10:32 AM

"We are not as suicidal as some people seem to think."

Meanwhile, back in reality...

I have had Israeli officers that currently serve in the IDF ask me in the last few days why they should stay in the IDF and put their lives at risk when the Knesset is caving in more every day.

http://www.yonitheblogger.com/2007/06/why_not.html

olmert?

"We are tired of fighting, we are tired of being courageous, we are tired of winning, we are tired of defeating our enemies..." (olmert then put these words into action with the lebanon defeat.)

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/504

But hey, the idf does have a recent success, the only problem is it was against their own civilians - the Expulsion.

Israel defines suicide. At every juncture over the last 10 years they have chosen death, not life and turned from G-d. Having not learned from history, they are about to get another painful lesson.

Posted by: Arm A. Geddon at June 28, 2007 10:40 AM

"Israel defines suicide. At every juncture over the last 10 years they have chosen death, not life and turned from G-d. Having not learned from history, they are about to get another painful lesson."

Please explain this statement and make sure that you concentrate on the role of GOD in it. From my personal observations GOD doesn't take much notice of anything that we do or don't do irrespective of the views of any of the faithful.

Posted by: MisIslamist at June 28, 2007 11:10 AM

Israel defines suicide. At every juncture over the last 10 years they have chosen death, not life and turned from G-d. Having not learned from history, they are about to get another painful lesson.
Posted by: Arm A. Geddon

Israel is a government. That's singular. The 'they' you refer to is plural. To state that 'they' have chosen death, are suicidal, and have turned their back's on God, is not only painting with a very wide brush, it is wrong. 'They' continue to be some of the most religious people on the planet, and definatly NOT turned 'their' back's on God...

Posted by: duh_swami at June 28, 2007 11:23 AM

"I have had Israeli officers that currently serve in the IDF ask me in the last few days why they should stay in the IDF and put their lives at risk when the Knesset is caving in more every day."

And the reality is that if they do not then death will find them when the Muslims win, the IDF is the only thing that Israelis can rely on, you can not rely on the USA or Europe, only yourselves, the Israelis can do it, we the un-dhimified people of the West are counting on you to keep on defending yourselves as you have done for years, do not give up now, we are getting to the crunch point soon...

Posted by: Daffersd at June 28, 2007 11:49 AM

"we the un-dhimified people of the West are counting on you to keep on defending yourselves as you have done for years, do not give up now, we are getting to the crunch point soon... "

So is Israel the canary in the coal mine?

Its people deserve better. In an attempt to curry favor with Arab regimes we put a favorable light on "Palestinian self-determination" and empowered terrorist organizations. After courting the very people who seek Israel's destruction what right do we have to expect anything from Israelis?

And what happens at crunch point? Do we jump in on Israel's side or mourn their departure and go on about our business? Israel's enemies are our enemies, too. Once Arabs dispose of the little satan then it's onward and upward.

We're the reason Israel is in this fix right now. Their enemies attack civilians with impunity. Israel cannot respond in kind without being accused of war crimes. Everyone worries about "civilian casualties", refusing to acknowledge that "civilians" are the ones who are attacking in the first place.

Israel is now expected to fight with one hand tied behind its back. How do you expect them to keep on defending themselves as they "have done for years"?

And who do you think will be blamed if Israel is attacked with a nuclear weapon and responds in kind? I can tell you this: it won't be Iran.

Posted by: PMK at June 28, 2007 1:12 PM

While their enemies can try and fail, the Israelis do not have the luxury of getting it wrong, and then going back to the drawing board. If they miscalculate, any survivors will be scrambling to board U.S. Navy vessels for the long voyage back to statelessness.

Posted by: MP at June 28, 2007 1:37 PM

PMK, of course they deserve better and I agree with you on every point, but they are on their own effectively because of our leaders selling them and us down the river, I like many pro-Israeli westeners can only sit there and pray that they are able to defend themselves, but if they give up on their own then they are in real trouble, I hope these people do not.

I saw a story earlier about fighter pilots leaving, I saw another about army officers leaving, just when they are about to get attacked, I feel like crying, it hurts so much to see the West preparing to leave the Jewish people to their fate, damn it.

Posted by: Daffersd at June 28, 2007 2:46 PM

I do not believe for one second that "Israel defines suicide".

Israel defines survival, hope and the brilliance of the human spirit.

Posted by: Josephine at June 28, 2007 3:03 PM

Elderly Zionist - Noah?

Posted by: MP at June 28, 2007 5:05 PM

Daffersd - "Because we're here, lad. Nobody else, just us."

Posted by: MP at June 28, 2007 5:10 PM

duh_swami,

Israel is a government.

>>>Israel is a country. Governments rise and fall with regularity in Israel.

That's singular. The 'they' you refer to is plural. To state that 'they' have chosen death, are suicidal, and have turned their back's on God,
is not only painting with a very wide brush, it is wrong.

>>>Far from wrong. One of the most egregious things they (government elected by majority) could do is give up the Land of the Covenant to anybody, let alone genocidal arabs and muslims. They have done that several times.

'They' continue to be some of the most religious people on the planet, and definatly NOT turned 'their' back's on God...

>>> Only a small minority of Israelis, ~ 15%, are the most religious people on the planet. The rest are indifferent or (frequently) much worse.
Who do you thing keeps electing those who consistently spit in the face of G-d, give land to genocidal muslim terrorists, persecute the religious, release jihadi prisoners with blood on their hands, refuse to fight wars, are massively corrupt, and wouldn't recognize the difference between the Torah and the koran?

Life in Israel is much worse for the deeply religious and the "right wing" than it is for an arab. The bolsheviks in government see to that every day and they have an "internal security" force more than willing and more than capable of "making things happen."

Posted by: Arm A. Geddon at June 28, 2007 5:40 PM

Ok Israel is not a gov, but I think it has one. The people are sucidal and stupid, and they have all, but a narrow 15%, have turned their back's on God.

I guess all those Israel hater's are right...gee whizz. Defend if you will, but you 'are' painting with a wide brush. Obviously you are no fan of Israel. You condemn the entire nation because they keep electing incompetents to government. American's do the same stupid thing, but I dont think the rest of your description fit's them. I would like to hear a few Israeli resident's who would tell me what they think. For instance the eye witness who is the subject of the article doe's not seem to agree with you...
You sound far to bitter to be believed at face value...

Posted by: duh_swami at June 29, 2007 12:27 AM

duh_swami

Arm A geddon appears to be an Israeli who is also an ultra orthodox jew(going by his posts) as such he is almost as much of a problem as are the lunatic fringe christian fundamentalists in that they use god as an excuse to generally make a pain of themselves.
If both groups would pull in their horns a little then we could all concentrate upon controlling or solving the Muslim problem instead of fighting amongst ourselves.
His points about the release of jihadists, the corruption and the cowardly refusal of teh politicians to support the IDF however are quite valid and I agree with them.
If Olmert is so bloody useless then why is he still there? Hmmm Bush is also...point made, but at least Bush seesm to know what side he is on although he is equally unrealistic about Islam.

Posted by: MisIslamist at June 29, 2007 5:04 AM

Many of these posts hit the nail on the head. The U.S. is largely responsible for bullying Israel's leaders into unilateral concessions and forcing them to seek dialog with groups and nations that only want to destroy her. I do blame Israelis for not being clear-headed enough to elect a leader that can stand up to the U.S. Netanyahu wanted to achieve this by first realizing the massive economic potential of an Israel unfettered by socialism. He pushed a little too hard, and the socialists pushed back hard. I am no fan of Bibi (after all, he essentially gave away Israel's second holiest city, Hebron, for absolutely nothing in return), but I did admire his understanding of what economic independence would mean for Israel. Imagine a leader saying to Condi: "We understand that you will use U.S. aid to push us into dangerous concessions, but we will not act against the best interests of our own country. Keep your money if you wish."

Well, there is, IMO, a little speck of light at the end of the tunnel. There is, within the Likud party, a faction known as Manhigut Yehudit, or Jewish Leadership. Its leader, Moshe Feiglin, I think, is the real deal. I have read many of his writings, and I am convinced that he is different. I do not believe he will cave to U.S. pressure if it will damage the Jewish State, the Jewish people or the Jewish religion. Although he is religious (Zionist-Nationalist camp), he believes that he can subsume the Likud from within by galvanizing the religious and secular nationalists, along with the hugely underrepresented Sephardic community (not all religious but not anti-religious either). These groups forged together would form a large, if not the largest voting bloc in Israel, (although still not a majority, perhaps the largest minority). By avoiding the political trap of forming his own party, Jewish Leadership will not end up bargaining with the major parties for table scraps. Hence the name Jewish Leadership. Feiglin feels that Israel is ripe for leadership that is Jewish, not just tiny factions of Jewish special interests seeking more government funding for pet projects. He is fairly young, by Israeli political standards, and his faction has gained enough momentum that Netanyahu recently tried to co-opt it by declaring that Israel's future depends on the Land of Israel, the People of Israel and the Torah of Israel. Only a carpet-bagging secular Israeli politician in danger of losing control of his own party would speak this way.

Those who pray for Israel might consider praying for Mr. Feiglin, as well.

Posted by: bondmanp at June 29, 2007 10:43 AM

bondmanp

I just hope that you are right in the above and that Israel regains her true independence of spirit.

Posted by: MisIslamist at June 29, 2007 1:44 PM

MisIslamist,

"but at least Bush seesm to know what side he is on"

What side is Bush on? Mexican or muslim?

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at June 29, 2007 6:40 PM

Like his father I would guess that Bush is on the side of Bush and whether this onvolves kissing mexican or saudi backsides is your choice.

I have only contempt for the man but whatever the fault of his administration and no matter how incompetent they are and however unrealistic is their assessment of Muslims and Islam, he and they appear to be a better choice than the democrats. Although I would dearly love to se a REAL strong man there with the courage of his convictions.

In my country I like neither party but I will vote for the one who is most aware and most active against islam. In the end half a testicle is better than none.

Posted by: MisIslamist at June 29, 2007 11:37 PM