I know it's been said before, but this is what's truly needed to avert a global war. Muslims have to pick up the fight themselves and put their money where their mouth is.

Unfortunately, I've been disappointed 100% of the time I think a Muslim is stepping up to do the right thing.

I've got my fingers crossed.

Posted by: The fanatic at July 3, 2007 5:11 PM

Is this genuine or simply takeyya: a lie to benefit the spread of Islam?

Posted by: calatrava at July 3, 2007 5:15 PM

"He said the police and security services "deserve the fullest support and cooperation from each and every sector of our society, including all Muslims."

So says Muhammad Abdul Bari the chief of Muslims in GB.

I like the "including all Muslims."

Yes, all sectors, Nuns, Hassidic Jews, professional cyclists must help the security services also. I am sure they know a lot about who the murdering Islamic doctors are.

Posted by: scribe10 at July 3, 2007 5:16 PM

Greetings:

Beware of Muslims bearing adjectives and adverbs.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 3, 2007 5:18 PM

Yea well if thier own kids being brainwashed into hating and killing doesn't set them off to stand up and do the right thing.....

....I have no faith in muslims.

The only fire they are interested in putting out is the one burning under thier hind ends,as people are fed up.

We will see but without muslims changing islam what is there to wait for or to expect?

Posted by: Dar al-harb at July 3, 2007 5:21 PM

"Those who seek to deliberately kill or maim innocent people are the enemies of us all. There is no cause whatsoever that could possibly justify such barbarity."

Cynicism is setting in. He didn't define "innocent". Hasn't Islam always condemned the taking of "innocent" life? They just define it differently than we do.

I'm not holding my breath.

MCB, your words are not enough either. You will have to show me!

Posted by: PMK at July 3, 2007 5:22 PM

Sound's good, last's a long time, doe's nothing.

...appealed to all Muslims to work hand in hand with the police.

I don't think that is going to happen in any massive way, any time soon. Probably never. And why should muslims bust on other muslims? It would seem that the Islamisation of Britain is comming along nicely, so why spoil it by associating with the kufr police?

Bari: "Those who seek to deliberately kill or maim innocent people are the enemies of us all. There is no cause whatsoever that could possibly justify such barbarity."

Watch out for that word 'innocent', he may not mean what you think he mean's. There seem to be a very large number of muslims who disagree with that. Was it not Irans cleric Khatami, who just said that Rushdie's knighting justified suicide bombers? Possibly Bari should call up Khatami, and explain to him where he is going wrong...

Posted by: duh_swami at July 3, 2007 5:29 PM

The comment from the leader of the MCB is all very well but I notice that once again they choose their words carefully.

"Those who seek to deliberately kill or maim INNOCENT people are the enemies of us all. There is no cause whatsoever that could possibly justify such barbarity".

Why the bloody hell do they insist on using the phrase INNOCENT people and why are they NEVER challenged by the media on that question?

WE all know that they are pulling the wool over everybodies eyes. Why oh why does everybody else seem to accept what they say at face value?!?!?

Posted by: Lionheart at July 3, 2007 5:33 PM

Sound's good, last's a long time, doe's nothing.

...appealed to all Muslims to work hand in hand with the police.

I don't think that is going to happen in any massive way, any time soon. Probably never. And why should muslims bust on other muslims? It would seem that the Islamisation of Britain is comming along nicely, so why spoil it by associating with the kufr police?

Bari: "Those who seek to deliberately kill or maim innocent people are the enemies of us all. There is no cause whatsoever that could possibly justify such barbarity."

Watch out for that word 'innocent', he may not mean what you think he mean's. There seem to be a very large number of muslims who disagree with that. Was it not Irans cleric Khatami, who just said that Rushdie's knighting justified suicide bombers? Possibly Bari should call up Khatami, and explain to him where he is going wrong...

Posted by: duh_swami at July 3, 2007 5:36 PM

Call me cynical. Not until the jihadists are hounded with the same fervour reserved for cartoons and apostate authors; not until apostasy is explicitly accepted by these leaders; not until muslims in large numbers take to the streets to denounce jihad and sharia; not until informers start making life impossible for terror cells; not until the leaders explicitly call for muslim women to marry kuffar men ; not until they start a determined effort to enforce a non-supremacist reformation of islam, which all UK muslims will be bound to accept; not until dirty Arab oil money is refused; not until national identity takes precedence over the ummah -

- not until then will I begin to even consider being less islamophobic.

We are way, way beyond the time for comforting words and symbolic gestures.

Posted by: anti-uffe at July 3, 2007 5:38 PM

Ahhh I see that PMK and duh_swami beat me to the punch in pointing out the sleight of hand in the use of the word "innocent".

Sorry guys. took too long in typing my original post!!

Posted by: Lionheart at July 3, 2007 5:41 PM

Enough condemnation, begin deportation!

Posted by: Timur at July 3, 2007 5:48 PM

You are a German soldier on the Eastern Front during WWII. Your unit has been locked in brutal close quarter combat for days with Russian troops who out number your side 2 to 1. During the fighting your company manages to cut off a sizeable force of Russians and after 2 days the Russian troops realize that their unit's position cannot be defended and they surrender. The Germans can assume which of the following:
1. The Soviet forces are collapsing and soon all Soviet forces will see the futility of resisting and also surrender.
2. The only reason these troops surrendered is because they were not in a position to continue fighting so they dropped their arms in an attempt to save themselves.
3. The Soviet forces are not about to surrender the fight and once they overcome German resistance the captured Germans and German civilians can expect no mercy.
If you guessed #2 and #3 you are correct and you also know why some muslims are feigning co-operation with authorities.

Posted by: pismopal at July 3, 2007 5:56 PM

"Muslims everywhere consider all acts of terrorism that aims to murder and maim innocent human beings utterly reprehensible and abhorrent."

Usual start mate, but I've heard it all before. You see I can read and think at the same time, and I do not seem to remember when muslims everywhere appeared to be utterly reprehensed and abhorred by rockets hitting Israeli towns. So we have to assume that not everyone's innocent in your eyes - even ordinary citizens. As long as the country is attacking muslims, even children are not innocent. Are they, mate? He goes on:

"There is no theological basis whatsoever for such acts in our faith. The very meaning of the word 'Islam' is peace. It rejects terror and promotes peace and harmony."

Hang on, I've heard this one before too. Islam doesn't mean peace at all, according to scholars of Arabic it in fact means 'submission'. Still, you then say it promotes peace and harmony which it undeniably does, peace and harmony for islamists everywhere. Best of British to 'em, eh? Then to ram the point home to the believers, he quotes the book:

"If anyone kills a human being, unless it be (in punishment) for murder, or of spreading corruption in the land, it should be looked upon as though he had slain all mankind, and if anyone saves a life it should be regarded as though he had saved the lives of all mankind.(5:32)"

Heh, good soundbyte there from the prophet himself. Shame not everyone was basking in it's beauty though, some of us caught the next few snippets too. Here they are:

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, (5:33)

Except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful (5:34)

O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful. (5:35)

Surely (as for) those who disbelieve, even if they had what is in the earth, all of it, and the like of it with it, that they might ransom themselves with it from the punishment of the day of resurrection, it shall not be accepted from them, and they shall have a painful punishment (5:36)

They would desire to go forth from the fire, and they shall not go forth from it, and they shall have a lasting punishment (5:37)"

The MCB says that "The words in the Qur'an are clear".

Can't say they're lying, can you?

Posted by: Bert Preast at July 3, 2007 6:11 PM

Glittering generality talk is cheap, it doesn't require any action.

Is the MCB going to call for the criminalization of Hizb ut-Tahrir?

Is the MCB going to be calling for closing mosques in London where Jihadism is preached and Jihadist materials sold in the mosque bookstores?

Is the MCB going to be calling for an end to Hamas Jihadists holding rallies in UK public squares?

Is the MCB going to be calling for the closure of British-HQ'd Islamist charities that are the fronts for Jihad groups?

Irshad Manji would call for all these, regardless of whether her approach is delusional or not. If she is to be criticized, certainly the MCB should be.

The MCB has done none of these, and it must be challenged. What was the first thing the MCB said on Saturday? That the terror acts could have been done by a Christian, Jew, or Buddhist. Factually, yes, practically, no. The MCB has a lot of mind changing to do.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at July 3, 2007 6:11 PM

Note to the British Bobby, and the US cop, and police in all non-Muslim countries: Watch your back. Never, never meet a Muslim informant alone.

And if helpful, cooperative, smiling Muslims (or even tearful, frightened, 'concerned' Muslims) suddenly start coming forward in droves to 'assist you in your inquiries'...use a heaping handful of salt. Check, check, double-check. Start by assuming that they are lying. Look up Robert Spencer's books to find out about taqiyya, and kitman.

If they tell you to look in the bedroom, look in the kitchen too. If they tell you it's in the basement, look in the attic.

Always use a non-Muslim IT expert to turn the suspect/s' home and office computers inside out.

NEVER use a Muslim translator or interpreter to tell you what's in a foreign-language website/ download, document, letter, or phone call, or to assist in an interrogation: depending on the language involved, hire a Jew, a Christian, or a Hindu.

The core ideology of Islam is worse than Nazism was, and every single Muslim, sad to say, from the security point of view is a potential fifth-columnist. They may be a peaceful, slack, secular, infidel-befriending 'nominal' Muslim today - and a rabid jihadist tomorrow, it can flip that fast.

Sergeant Plod...take care!

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 3, 2007 6:25 PM

This statement, in all of its ambiguity ("innocents") and studied failure to discuss all the ways in which Jihad is pursued short of terrorism, makes a wary Infidel eager to emulate W. C. Fields who, when found reading the Bible, explained: "I'm looking for loopholes."

Posted by: Hugh at July 3, 2007 6:27 PM

So it seems the MCB's caught "Islamophobia" along with everyone else as well?

Posted by: yadayada at July 3, 2007 6:32 PM

They have a good general who has calculated that the 3rd muslim invasion of Europe hasn't yet landed enough troops to achieve the final victory and is playing for time.

"War is deceit".

Posted by: teba at July 3, 2007 6:38 PM

Until the Muslims start to clean up their own houses of worship of the radical elements, I will consider the words said to be empty.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 3, 2007 6:41 PM

Until the Muslims start to clean up their own houses of worship of the radical elements, I will consider the words said to be empty.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 3, 2007 6:42 PM

Yes, like everyone else I am a little troubled by the MCB's definition of 'innocent'.

For instance, is Salman Rushdie 'innocent'?

Posted by: A Nonny Nonny at July 3, 2007 7:03 PM

What manure...

""There must be no hesitation in coming forward," he said. "Clearly we face a threat from extremists who happen to be Muslim."

Oh!What an awkward,embarassing coincidence!
Fate once again rolled the die and it came up Muslim!

also...

Daud Abdullah, the MCB deputy secretary general said: "We accept there is a degree of extremism and radicalisation taking place in the community. This is a long-term problem."

Translated:It's FEAR
It's HERE
GET USED TO IT!(repeat)

Posted by: anonamustafa at July 3, 2007 7:10 PM

Whew glad this is all over .... what a relief.

Posted by: Ameriki at July 3, 2007 7:12 PM

Julia, in any case, seldom had an evening completely free. She spent an astonishing amount of time in attending lectures and demonstrations, distributing literature for the junior Anti-Sex League, preparing banners for Hate Week, making collections for the savings campaign, and such-like activities. It paid, she said, it was camouflage. If you kept the small rules, you could break the big ones.

Posted by: pez at July 3, 2007 7:29 PM

Is this genuine or simply takeyya: a lie to benefit the spread of Islam?

You know the answer: Taquiyya. And "those looking out for the folks" --- as that great jackass Bill O'Reilly likes to say --- are the Imams not the MBC.

I don't mind seeing a big fat Taquiyya Martini served up, so long as the Moslem activists soon after make it apparent what bullshit the MBC's tiresome bullshit actually is.

My worst fear is all this Jihad war terror stops and they simply start breeding in earnest with their cow-like wives --- all four of them.

Then we're finished.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at July 3, 2007 7:31 PM

Yes, yes yes, these are not real Muslims and Islamic poop does not stink. Why then do so many of these murderers are spawned from Islamic culture and why are human rights little more than a joke in Muslim countries, especially when it comes to minority Muslim sects and non-Muslims. I will believe that Islam is serious about real peace when a Christian cathedral and a Buddhist temple are built in Mecca.

Posted by: James Martel at July 3, 2007 7:52 PM

The are all share the same desire and a common goal. Their is no such thing as a moderate muslim, they all want the same thing. You can't believe a single thing they say to us, its all lies.

Islam = Terrorists... There is no middleground, they will smile in your face and stab you in the back... all of them (except for Shaheen... she seems sweet.jk).

Its time to acknowledge that this is not the work of a few radicals, its the the whole religion we are at war with. It would be better if the government would say this. There would be a few burnt cars and some riots, but at least everyone could unite against the true enemy, ISLAM.

Posted by: Isamisevil at July 3, 2007 7:57 PM

After reading the preceding comments, the MCB must feel like a vacuum cleaner salesman in a land of no rugs.

No one buying.

It is a little late for this kind of "appeal" to reason.

Where have they been since 9/11? Or 3/11? Or Bali? Or Beslan? Or 7/7?

B.S., served cold.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 3, 2007 8:18 PM

He he they getting scared

Posted by: hemoglobin at July 3, 2007 8:45 PM

Bari knows that "innocent" does not apply to anyone other than muslim. Don't be fooled. When it comes down to it most muslims will follow their text in the quran. Remember 9/11? Most muslims rejoiced in the murder of "innocents" that they witnessed.It's a sad sorry shame. The only way to change these people is to fight fire with fire. Amen!

Posted by: imamerican at July 3, 2007 9:36 PM

Good cop, bad cop.

Sorry, not buying it.

Posted by: Foehammer at July 3, 2007 9:37 PM

I hate to throw cold water on what appears to be progress, but I'd be more convinced of their sincerity if they issued a fatwa making it a moral obligation for Muslims to kill SOBs that do these things.

Posted by: rational at July 3, 2007 9:43 PM

Taqiyya is a part of Islamic doctrine. In fact, it is prohibited for Muslims to tell the kuffar anything resembling the truth about Islam. So, no, there is no reason to believe the Muslim Council in the UK on this or anything else.

There could very well be some sincerity among UK Muslims to control Islamic-propagated violence.

But controlling Islamic-propagated violence is not doable even by Muslims bent on reformation of Islam.

I have long maintained that Islamic theology predates Muhammad by several thousamd years and is rooted in Mesopotamian fertility/human sacrifice cults and as such ritual killing of persons is at the very center of this 'faith.'

I see nothing here to change my mind. Islam will continue killing human beings en masse but Muslims will continue searching for justifications to hide their killings behind as they always found a way to do.

If Muslims DO stop the bloodshed in the UK or anywhere else I will be (very, VERY!)surprised, to say the least. But I am not holding my holding my breath that the UK Muslim Council will be able to pull such a change off in Islam, either.

Posted by: pythagoras at July 3, 2007 9:58 PM

i recently gained US citizenship, i'm a british dual national. can someone please reason with me as to why i should remain a citizen of the UK and not formally renounce my citizenship with the UK foreign office.

this week has disturbed me, shamed me and made me deeply embarrassed to be british.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at July 3, 2007 10:00 PM

Goole up Michael Yon..imbeded with our USA Troops for the VERY LATEST ..he's honest and ..on the ground...GO FOR IT

Posted by: nodak at July 3, 2007 10:17 PM

I'm not holding my breath...something tells me my face will turn blue.

Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at July 3, 2007 10:39 PM

Declaring that "condemnation is not enough", leaders of the Muslim Council of Britain, which has 400 affiliate organisations, voiced its most robust message yet and appealed to all Muslims to work hand in hand with the police.
++++++++++++++++++

just how will the mos work hand and hand with the police..........kind of like having the fox helping to guard the hen house...........

Posted by: Texican at July 3, 2007 10:39 PM

When they protest publically against terrorism - when they put a fatwa on Bin Laden - when they protest on the opposide side of the street from the 'God Curse the Queen' protesters in London, THEN AND ONLY THEN will I be convinced of their sincerity. Until then, I'll consider this 'lip service'.

Posted by: The Goobs at July 3, 2007 10:52 PM

Yes, Pythagoras,
molech-Baal is a fiery god
of blood and child sacrifice.
There is nothing nice
about this god of malice and evil,
to follow him is the kiss of death.
His breath burns the flesh from bones,
his arms hold the bones
until they burn to ash.

Molech-Baal is the master
and all must be his slave.
The brave, the thoughtful, the best
must be killed, the rest
must follow him like sheep
and be shorn of their humanity
by the insanity of a false prophet
and demagogue and his deluded mind.

Posted by: the poetess at July 3, 2007 11:01 PM

Leon the Pig Farmer:

You should renounce your UK citizenship for these two reasons:

1) No man can serve two masters, for he will love the one....

2) Dual citizenships (and triple or quadruple which are sure to
follow) are another subversive assault on the concept of the
national state and the duty one owes it.

Example: what are the Iraqi-Americans thinking these days?

Posted by: 11B40 at July 3, 2007 11:15 PM

Too little too late!!!

Posted by: winston at July 3, 2007 11:34 PM

leonthepigfarmer

embarrasaed you?

never think this way! 1000 years of triumph does not go down because of socialized medicine with socialists running it! Giving money to utter gutter rats of humanity. No, we are of the best. Let them do their worst. Blow up their bombs and we will see their intent. Hate us and we will love our freedom.

never ever feel embarassed because of a a lame duck leader. he and they will be replaced soon enough.

wc

Posted by: winston at July 3, 2007 11:42 PM

"i recently gained US citizenship, i'm a british dual national. can someone please reason with me as to why i should remain a citizen of the UK and not formally renounce my citizenship with the UK foreign office.

leonthepigfarmer,

If you're going to renounce your British citizenship, do it for some other reason, not because you're ashamed of the politically correct way the British authorities handled the recent attempted bombings in London and Glasgow.

I don't know how long you've been in the U.S., but it wouldn't haven't taken long to figure out that your new American leaders are just as capable of embarrassing you as politicians accross the Atlantic.

It amazes me that leaders in either country could have so much information at their fingertips, and be surround by so many whiz-kids to advise them, and still appear to be stumbling around in a fog when it comes to understanding the nature of the Islamic threat.

Posted by: rational at July 3, 2007 11:57 PM

ditto rational.

Posted by: winston at July 4, 2007 12:01 AM

"He said the police and security services "deserve the fullest support and cooperation from each and every sector of our society, including all Muslims."

Good, now you can back up all the talk by expelling all the radical Imans from British Mosques, review the text books in your schools to insure they promote loyality to the queen, teach the glories of democratic government, and appreciation of political and religious freedom, and the evils of theocratic dictatorships.

If that's asking too much, than you're just blowing smoke in people's eyes.

Posted by: rational at July 4, 2007 12:23 AM

Cruelty has a human heart,
And Jealousy a human face;
Terror the human form divine,
And Secrecy the human dress.

The human dress is forged iron,
The human form a fiery forge,
The human face a furnace sealed,
The human heart its hungry gorge.

William Blake

Posted by: breezy55 at July 4, 2007 12:49 AM

The poem is called "A Divine Image".

Posted by: breezy55 at July 4, 2007 12:54 AM

Yes, Hugh, any lawyer worth his salt would have a field day with the word "innocent" thrown into the Muslim spokesman's qualificatory. Such a simple word; so rich in its nuances.

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at July 4, 2007 1:15 AM

winston

thankyou

i have the best of both worlds sometimes, but most times the yanks are the only ones with any sense but they are not the ones to have ever lived in that mess. long live the UK, long live USA, i serve one master now, freedom.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at July 4, 2007 2:00 AM

rational

im voting http://www.loyalistparty.com/

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at July 4, 2007 2:04 AM

One day Dr. Jekyll, next day Mr. Hyde

Posted by: FreeSpeech at July 4, 2007 2:52 AM

the poetess,
That came after a long interval.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at July 4, 2007 3:42 AM

nodak

"Goolge up Michael Yon"

Excellent! Thank you.

Posted by: Fred at July 4, 2007 4:10 AM

Sounds like Muhammad Abdul Bari is becoming an apostate.
Did he give any clue as to how a non muslim can ever be innocent?

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at July 4, 2007 4:20 AM

It's a clear cut case of Taqiyya. I think we all know the MCB better than they'd like to think.

Posted by: Jerusalem Posts at July 4, 2007 4:47 AM

Muslims tactics are changing.

Muslims do not need terrorism - they are already successfully Islamizing our countries legally, and with the assistance of our own governments, media and NGO's.

Whether terrorism stops, or whether it continues - the only losers will be non-Muslims.

-Stefcho.

Posted by: Stefcho at July 4, 2007 4:53 AM

Stefcho wrote:

Muslims tactics are changing.

Muslims do not need terrorism - they are already successfully Islamizing our countries legally, and with the assistance of our own governments, media and NGO's.

Whether terrorism stops, or whether it continues - the only losers will be non-Muslims.

I'll second that.

Posted by: DaveMate at July 4, 2007 6:26 AM

Melanie Phillips has kept her eye on the Muslim Council of Britain and informs us from time to time of their activities. It is worth keeping her words in mind.

*It offered condolences to the family of the leading Hamas mass murderer Abdul Aziz al Rantissi after he was killed by the Israelis, and described the founder and chief strategist of that genocidal outfit Sheikh Ahmed Yassin as 'the renowned Islamic scholar'.

*Its Secretary-General whips up anti-Israel hatred by branding it as a Nazi state and accusing it of 'murderous leadership', 'Zionist brutality' and the 'ethnic cleansing of Palestine'.

*It brands as an 'Islamophobe' anyone who even uses the term 'Islamic violence'.

*It issued a veiled threat to former Telegraph editor Charles Moore, who wrote a robust criticism of Islam, that he might suffer the same fate as Salman Rushdie who was subjected to a death-dealing fatwa over The Satanic Verses.

*It boycotted the ceremony commemorating the liberation of Auschwitz because it claimed it was not ‘racially inclusive ‘and did not commemorate the 'victims of the Palestinian conflict'.

*It was one of the organisers of a recent demonstration in London at which demonstators chanted: 'Kill, kill USA', 'Kill, kill George Bush', 'Bomb, bomb New York'and 'Your so-called democracy will fall under the sword of Allah. The day of judgment is coming.'

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/001232.html

Posted by: Burnside at July 4, 2007 6:43 AM

More about the Mulsim Council of Britain. This is from the BBC website.

"Ware: Well, although Dr Qaradawi has condemned the London suicide bombings unequivocally here when it comes to Israel he says - and I'm quoting here an interview he gave: "We must all realise that the Israeli society is a military society - men and women. We cannot describe the society as civilian...they are not civilians or innocent".

He's also supported the use of child suicide bombers. During a TV debate in the Gulf - according to BBC monitoring - he said: "The Israelis might have nuclear bombs but we have the children bomb and these human bombs must continue until liberation".

Quinn: What's the Muslim Council of Britain had to say about Dr Qaradawi?

Ware: Like the Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin, the Muslim Council of Britain has also described Dr Qaradawi in fairly flattering terms. They've said he's " a distinguished Muslim scholar...a voice of reason and understanding."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4681857.stm

Posted by: Burnside at July 4, 2007 6:52 AM

The Moslem doctors' plot proves why we need to profile all Moslems! Profile Moslems regardless of the race, color, sex, age, creed, handicapp or handicapping status.

Posted by: David England at July 4, 2007 7:33 AM

At college I read history at a Kremlinology CIA hothouse, one those "Institutes" at a major university, if you will. It was run by a SinoSoviet Analyst type who after 20 yrs in the CIA got fired from State for his controversial policies along that line.

Anyway, when the SinoSoviet dude showed up to take over the Institute we were suddenly required to read the US Constitution daily, and had to pass pop quizzes on the Constitution wkly.

God bless those men in Philadelphia that yr. And also those men in France and England in the yrs before.

Freedom.

Liberty.

Never understood the distnction between the two, but I understand the critical need for both.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at July 4, 2007 12:56 PM

I dont think there's anything in this "picinic basket yogi"!.

Posted by: psycopatt1 at July 5, 2007 3:44 AM

Who will teach the other thousands of new immigrating muslims to respect democracy, that's another back log to deal with and the problems will remain untill the same. It's Muslim countries that need to change their people like democracy is changing Muslims as in this article, but guess Muslims will get the credit if they do and people will think they read it from the Koran to inspire people.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at July 5, 2007 1:22 PM