Not in our name.

Julia, in any case, seldom had an evening completely free. She spent an astonishing amount of time in attending lectures and demonstrations, distributing literature for the Junior Anti-Sex League, preparing banners for Hate Week, making collections for the savings campaign, and suchlike activities. It paid, she said, it was camouflage. If you kept the small rules you could break the big ones.

Posted by: pez at July 6, 2007 9:57 AM

Hey, I'm a hindu. And, I've been categroized as a person of 'Indian origin' whether I'm hindu or muslim. That's not fair! The terrorist are MUSILIM. Repeat MUSLIM!

Posted by: Infidel#1 at July 6, 2007 10:03 AM

Im with you infidel, Its Islam thats the problem, not Indians or Hindus.

Posted by: Elric66 at July 6, 2007 10:06 AM

Atleast, this blows away the myth/lie popularized by
Tom Friedman of New York Times(and repeated by Manmhohan Singh and
President Bush when they met) that India despite having a large Muslim population did not produce any
international terrorists. This was supposed to advance their flawed argument that democracy somehow
prevents terrorism. How absurd ? Who do you think
was blowing up all the local trains in Bombay ? Or the countless other attacks in different cities in India over the years ? If they were radical enough to blow up the dar ul harb they were born in, they would be radical enough to blow up the dar ul harb they migrate to. Terrorism is a global problem and terrorists can be recruited in any nation (as Adam Gadahn proved). Ofcourse, the probability increases if the government itself is complicit (like in Pakistan, Sudan, Egypt etc.). But creating myths as Friedman does to advance a flawed logic does not help.

Posted by: Naresh C. at July 6, 2007 10:08 AM

Infidel#1,

If it makes you feel any better at all, an Indian physician saved my life, when I was seventeen.

I managed, God only knows how, to contract a very bad case of viral pneumonia, and it wasn't responsive to antibiotics. I was in the hospital for three weeks, and after that, not allowed to leave the house (it was still winter) for two more months.

I'll never forget the doctor's name, Dines Das. I don't know what the man's faith was, but he cared for me, even after I left the hospital, until I recovered.

Dr. Das is still here in town, and still practicing, which is more than I can say for other doctors who have treated me, over the years.

Nobody with any intelligence is really going to buy that crap about Indian doctors, any more than we buy the new "Asian" classification of the latest crop of terrorists in the West.

Posted by: Abscedere at July 6, 2007 10:21 AM

I hope people of Indian ethnicity do complain about this.

The "Islamispeace" website has this as one of its points on the front page:

"We call on our government to work towards a just and lasting peace in areas of conflict around the world and to take the lead in helping eliminate the injustices and grievances that foment division and nurture violence."

That seems to put at least some of the blame for these "criminals" on foreign policy.

The wording really bothers me. It's like those imams or Muslim spokespeople who decry violence in one breath but then say that, as long as Britain is in the Middle East or acting as Bush's poodle or under the control of the evil Zionists, well, they can't blame him if people are seething with rage and have to do something about it.

This manipulative victim card: they make it sound as if Muslims are the biggest victims in the world, even when they're the ones doing the killing.

Posted by: Josephine at July 6, 2007 10:24 AM

Oh, gack. More on the "Islamispeace" website:

"Phase III involves leveraging on the first two phases to engage our diverse communities to further interact construcively working together to fight the diseaes of Islamophobia and racism that are a cancer in our society"

Islamaphobia and racism are diseases?

Is that EU-speak?

The "Muslims United Campaign". Mental health experts, all. Watch out for it.

Posted by: Josephine at July 6, 2007 10:31 AM

There have umpteen amount of times where pakistan which have given its backing for 'freedom fighters(terriorist)' to give their 'jihad (terrorism)' on India's land. What Robert Spencer said in all of his previous postings couldn't be more true. All those Islam-driven muslims don't have a counry but they a similar ideology. We hindus have experienced it first hand. What Robert said is so true!

Posted by: Infidel#1 at July 6, 2007 11:07 AM

This is happening all over the news networks -- they interview the wife of one of the suspected terrorists and emphasize her husband's "East Indian origins", never daring to use the word "Muslim". It's so much easier to smear all East Indians.

Posted by: J.S. at July 6, 2007 11:21 AM

From Debbie Schlussel

The Islamic Medical Association of North America ("IMANA") makes the Oath of a Muslim Physician available to the world. It can be accessed from the IMANA Website. According to IMANA, this oath "was officially adopted by I.M.A. in 1977." (IMA is presumably the Islamic Medical Association.) This Oath ends with the following words: Hereby we take this oath in Thy name, the Creator of all the Heavens and the earth and follow Thy counsel as Thou has revealed to Prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

"Whoever killeth a human being, not in liew [sic] of another human being nor because of mischief on earth, it is as if he hath killed all mankind. And if he saveth a human life, he hath saved the life of all mankind." (Qur'an V/35)

[DS: This is flat-out stolen from the Jewish Torah (specifically from the Sanhedrin portion of the Talmud), which preceded it, though Jews don't interpret it to allow Jihad as Muslims do, and it is not an "oath" for Jewish doctors.]

Compared to the other Oaths and Declarations, the Oath of a Muslim Physician appears to be unique in its possibly more conditional nature. The phrase, "not in liew of another human being nor because of mischief on earth," suggests, licenses, allows or can certainly be interpreted or misinterpreted as to give understanding to a physician taking this Oath and who "killeth a human being," that the killing is okay as long as it is "in liew of another human being" or "because of mischief on earth."

"Mischief on earth" has also been translated as "corruption" on earth.

So who are the corruptors and mischief-makers?

We have guidance from some apparent experts:

"Non-Muslims 'cannot be called human beings but are animals who roam the earth and engage in corruption.' said Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati last week at a ceremony in north-eastern Iran to commemorate the 'martyrs' of the Revolutionary Guards and the war against Iraq.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/07/i_told_you_so_t.html

I'm sure Robert Spencer can elaborate further.

Posted by: DP111 at July 6, 2007 12:00 PM

Muslim doctors, for all the world harmless souls dedicated to healing the sick and injured, suddenly turning into rabid hate-filled terrorists bent on mass murder?

Reminds me of that old kids' cartoon series...

TRANSFORMERS - MO'BOTS IN DISGUISE

Posted by: Matamoros at July 6, 2007 12:12 PM

DP111

Thank you. You have provided a most useful tool, (which oath does a physician subscribe to) "Hippocratic Oath" vs. "Oath of a Muslim Physician", to use in determining which physician to choose.

Posted by: justamomof4 at July 6, 2007 12:18 PM

They always leave out the "except killing mischief makers". Since non-believers are under the curse of God and all that other hateful stuff about us non-believers being part of the house of war is taken as a wholesale god given right to murder us all.

If this is not true then Muslims will clearly define "innocent" and repudiate the killing of non-Muslims in any circumstances other than a direct war between clear combatants. If they fail to do this they are terrorists and enemies of real freedom and real peace.

Posted by: James Martel at July 6, 2007 12:31 PM

These lying hypocrites never give the full quote that is a severe warning to Jews:

SHAKIR 5:32-33: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

Lying Muslims are not “moderate” Muslims.

Posted by: FM at July 6, 2007 12:35 PM

The 'Islamic History' portion of www.islamispeace.org.uk includes a bit on a certain Al-Biruni,who "studied mathematics, medicine, and history, and used his knowledge to live over 250 years."

Posted by: jwdevildogg at July 6, 2007 12:36 PM

The quote about killing one innocent is like killing all mankind is being misued (5:32 koran).

It is an instruction to the Jews of Israel not followers of mohammed.

"For this cause have we ordained to the children of Israel that he who slayeth any one, unless it be a person guilty if manslaughter , or of spreading disorder in the land, shall be as though he had slain all mankind"

They also have the get out clause that "spreading disorder" includes anyone who questions islam.

al-Taqiyya

Posted by: Celsius at July 6, 2007 12:36 PM

If it makes you feel any better at all, an Indian physician saved my life, posted by Abscedere

An Indian doctor saved my life too, about ten years ago. I had a severe infection that several other doctors had failed to diagnose and properly treat, resulting in an acute and deadly abcess that almost killed me. This incident was and remains my only encounter with illness and when you're never sick, you tend to take good health for granted. I will be forever grateful to this wonderful woman, who was chosen out of a field of thousands for a fellowship at a very prestigious medical school. I was devastated when she told me she was leaving, but very thankful that she was in the right place at the right time for me.

Posted by: Susanp at July 6, 2007 1:05 PM

Being a muslim is the common denominator for terror. I am sure there are some harmless ones, like non-poisonous snakes, but you cannot always tell the difference. What has this culture contributed? Female genital mutilation, bombings, beheadings, torture, polygamy, bombings, all under the guise of Allah which is NOT a word for God. I saw a bumper sticker that sums it up, "ISLAM__IT'S A BLAST"

Posted by: CapitalistGig at July 6, 2007 2:33 PM

I've been to islamispeace.org.uk

It takes about 15 seconds to establish the purpose of the site: It is opportunistic in nature. The idea is to use public attention on the terrorist attacks to promote Islam. It is an all-out proselytization (Dawa) campaign that rides on the coattails of the press associated with these attacks.

The logic of this connection is bewilderingly stupid, but they don't consider this to be an impediment. It's like using the publicity of some 6 year-old accidentally shooting himself to launch an NRA campain called "firearms are safe" instead of seeking broader means of keeping children safe from guns. Or as a basis for advertisements for a small arms dealer marketing handguns for children.

Or, recall when gay activists were screaming that "AIDS has no connection whatsoever to homosexuality", and at the same time were lobbying for massive medical grants to promote the normalization of gay lifestyles, arguing that the most important part of the fight against AIDS is to counter "homophobia". Say what? I think these muslim groups have taken a page from the gay rights activist playbook.

Their campaign has nothing whatever to do with countering terrorist activity. It provides no sense that the Islamic community is moving towards a position of accountability, responsibility or solidarity with the interests of its non-muslim neighbors. It gives, rather, the impression that they are starting their own Jihad, with stepped up publicity campaigns in place of bombs and rocket launchers, to try to islamize British society.

I note the name of the campaign, "Not in our name". That is:

"hey you violent jihadists, it's OK to do your stuff in the name of Islam, but please don't think it's in OUR name -- we're the NON-violent jihadists: we hope to accomplish the same goals as you, just in our own way, and we don't want the general public to get us mixed up; that would really tap our turntables. We're BOTH working in the name of Allah, just in different ways. In any case, we'll take the high road while you'll take the low road, and one of us will establish Sharia over all, by and by."

At least the north american Fiqh council was clever enough to call their campaign "Not in the name of Islam". Regardless of what it is called, however, it appears to have approximatly the same thrust...

The site itself contains some hilarious groaners like this one, on their "Islamic History" page:

The majority if not all of the Muslim scholars extracted scientific knowledge directly from the Qur'an.

Yeah right. Mountains have roots that act like pegs to keep the continents in place. Heard it all before. Of course, every schoolchild today knows that the mountains were FORMED by the MOVEMENT of the continents, which continues unabated today. (Besides, the Qur'an had no knowledge of continents, etc. This is all read in retrospectively.)

Or the greatest "muslim accomplishment of all time", giving us nothing -- ahem -- zero, or more to the point, place notation with zero as a placeholder in arithmetic (the Romans, Babylonians, Assyrians and others millennia earlier used varieties of place notation, but without zero as a placeholder). Ah, but...

i) The place notation using zeros was actually introduced by HINDU mathematicians 300 years before Mohammed. We call our number system the HINDU-ARABIC system because it was invented by the HINDUs and merely transmitted to the west by the ARABS.

ii) We do NOT call it the MUSLIM, or ISLAMIC number system, because there is no specific connection of the transmission of this notational to a religious group, doctrine or holy writ...it was simply the dominant ARAB racial group that transmitted the system. A number of notable ASSYRIAN and PERSIAN mathematicians (all lumped together under the hegemonic ARAB culture) during the European dark ages are responsible for much of this. These men generally happened, nominally, to be Muslim; it was hard for non-muslims to receive any kind of advancement in that culture. Few appear to have had any great level of religious piety (My favourite example is the great Persian poet Khayyam, whose poetry is filled with praises to wine, women and song -- with all of which, apparently, he had considerable personal experience from which to draw inspiration. Not a great example of Islamic piety, indeed.)

iii) More to the point: Where, exactly, in the Qur'an is this great "Islamic" piece of science found? There are "zero" Qur'anic references to it? Now that's remarkable -- it had been well-established for 300 years in the neighboring Hindu civilization. Apparently Mohammed, a businessman by trade, and who surely had dealings with Hindu merchants, had not learned this simple accounting trick. I guess he really was not only illiterate, as muslims claim, but also "innumerate", as we say nowadays. But what was "Allah's" excuse?

Sorry all, for another of my novel-length posts.

Posted by: Archimedes2 at July 6, 2007 2:50 PM

Infidel#1

Part of the blame for this should be put squarely on the door of Indian PM Manmohan Singh, who's been howling about the plight of the families of the suspects: "The Prime Minister has been perturbed by the trauma expressed by Haneef's family and has virtually been sleepless after seeing his mother airing her pain." When the Indian PM starts protesting like this, as though any Indian doc - Muslim or not - is likely to indulge in Jihad, he is just exacerbating the situation for Indians in general, who would already be under suspicions thanks to the media's preference to call the suspects 'Indians' rather than 'Indian Muslims' or simply 'Muslims'.

This is going to sound harsh, but if India isn't willing to separate out Muslims from the rest when tracking terror activities, Indians cannot blame Western authorities when they, following up on such trends, decide to suspect all Indians, instead of just Muslims. And I don't just mean the Indian government - I'm talking about mainstream Indian apologists for Muslims here in the US - like India Currents, or Siliconeer, and groups like FOIL (Forum of Indian Leftists).

Naresh

One of the other points that has been made - in TOI of all places - is that until now, the Indian government used to boast that to date, there has never been any Indian Muslim members of al Qaeda. That myth now lies in tatters (even if the Mohammeds aren't al Qaeda members), and the politics of pandering to Muslims that has gone on for 50 years hasn't resulted in Indian Muslims being any less inclined to Jihad than Muslims elsewhere.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 6, 2007 3:08 PM

This is the physician's prayer writen by the great rabbi and physician Moses Maimonides (the Rambam, 1137-1204). The Rambam lived in Muslim societies his entire life. He was born in Spain and he fled to Morocco when the Almohades took over and gave the Jews the choice of conversion to Islam, death or exile. He trained as a physician at the University of Al Karaouine in Morocco and eventually settled in Egypt where he was the physician to the Grand Vizier Alfadhil and Sultan Saladin. Considered by many to be the preeminent physician of his day, his philosophical works were also influential on Muslim philosophers.

The Rambam was well familiar with Islam. Compare his physician's prayer to the Islamic Medical Association of North America's Oath of a Muslim Physician. Ironically, many Arab and Muslim physicians today still hold Maimonides in high esteem.

God above, before I begin my holy work, healing Your creation [human beings], I lay my plea before You, that You will grant me the strength of spirit and the vast energy to do my work with faith, and that the aspiration to accumulate wealth will not blind my eyes from seeing one who is suffering, one who comes for my [professional] advice, as a human being, [whether] rich or poor, friend or foe, the good and the evil person, in his sorrowful moment reveal to me only the human being in him. My love for the learning of medicine should only strengthen my spirit, only the truth shall be the light before my feet, for any weakness in my work might bring about death and illness to Your creation. I beg you, please, compassionate and gracious God, strengthen and focus my body and my soul and plant within me a spirit that is whole.

translation by Noga Hullman © 2001

Posted by: Johan Amedeus Metesky at July 6, 2007 3:25 PM

Thanks Johan for the text of that beautiful prayer. And, everybody, note that Maimonides includes the words 'friend or foe'. A human being in need of healing is...a human being in need of healing, even if they are from an enemy group. There, in that Jewish prayer, is the parallel to Jesus' instruction to 'love your enemy'. (And, quite possibly, a clue as to context - perhaps Jesus wasn't necessarily teaching suicidal pacifism in all circs but instead - when your enemy is in your power, don't take it out on him/ her in mindless vengeance).

I would entrust my life to a properly qualified physician who was a Jew. In a sense, as a Christian, I have already given both my life and my death into the hands of a Jew - Joshua of Nazareth.

I would trust a qualified physician who was a Buddhist, a Hindu, a nonreligious.

But I would not - I cannot, I dare not - trust a Muslim. How can I, when I know the Islamic religion pre-programs him/ her to hate me; to fear me; to despise me; to define me as a foe, and to define all foes as worthy of death?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 6, 2007 6:50 PM

Fortunately, whether raised in Islam or a convert, Indian-Muslims will have been given or will adopt a Muslim name. Thus, when selecting a doctor it is relatively easy to determine their position on Jihad.

Also, should we not say Muslim-Indian, Muslim-Britain, Muslim-Israeli, and such. Or, just plain "Muslim"? Do they not consider themselves first and foremost, or even exclusively, a Muslim? The nation in which they reside of little or no consequence. Isn't that how they want to be identified? Would they not prefer that any national reference be eliminated as it implies recognition of a State and some form of affiliation with one - something forbidden and inherently evil?

Posted by: Mick_n_NYC at July 6, 2007 7:39 PM

So much for the much anticipated "not in our name` campaign from British Muslims! It seems the Muslim terrorists are not really Muslim and the acts have nothing to do with Islam....So actually it`s nopthing to do with British Muslims anyway!!

I sent the following to their website......

Typical! Just as I thought British Muslims had grown a backbone and seen the truth I notice this whole `Not in our name` campaign is one big Islamic whitewash!

So much for Muslims standing up against ISLAMIC terrorism carried out BY MUSLIMS when all we see is that all you are doing is saying the terrorists are not real Muslims and that their acts having nothing to do with Islam anyway!
A such...nothing to do with you!!

What a disgraceful waste and an utter con this is!

Fact: All those involved have been practising, DEVOUT, MUSLIMS.

Fact: ISLAMIC holy men in ISLAMIC holy places all around the world constantly call for death, destruction and global Jihad to their MUSLIM followers.

Fact: The MUSLIM terrorists and atrocity mongers not only call out "God is great" while carrying out such acts but also use SPECIFIC doctrines from the ISLAMIC QURAN to justify acts of terror.

So we have MUSLIMS who practice devout (pure) ISLAM, who call out Allah`s name, who specifically mention ISLAM and MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE in their propaganda and who quote directly from the ISLAMIC QURAN, carrying out acts of terror...but you are saying its nothing to do with Muslims or Islam!??

It is is YOU people who are not the real Muslims I`m afraid. The real, pure, devout Muslims are the terrorists and their army of helpers, supporters and spokesmen because they follow Islam fully.
AND *THEY* WILL TELL YOU THAT AND PROVE THAT TO YOU!

It is the `moderate` pick and choose merchants (picking not to choose the more barbaric aspects utterly engrained in Islam) that do not truly represent Islam as it is.
As such this whitewashing campaign is an offensive joke (much like the calls that Muslim are a race, another falsehood).

As the sad fact is that the terrorists ARE Muslims and they ARE doing it in the name of Islam and they always will be unless you take your apologist heads out of the sand and ADMIT that yes it is Islam as it stands that is the problem here!

Islam needs to change, to EVOLVE. It needs a reformation.
It needs to go through the same civilised transformation that Christianity went through.
Islamic states (and Islam when in a position of power) is unique in 2007 in the gross, dark ages atrocities, laws and agendas that it carries out and lives by.

Not even the rabid Catholics hang homosexuals, stone women and kill converts in Vatican Square! Islam still does and the Quran and the many teachings outside of it back it all up!
Be of good cheer you are unique...Islam is the only religion who kills those who dare to leave it!

When you actually stand up and ADMIT that it is Islam that is the fault here and that (epsecilly if you want to bring it into The West) it needs to go through a massive transformation to kick it out of the dark ages where it still dwells you won`t change anything!!

Until you stand up in these supposed massive moderate numbers (as we keep on hearing there are) and CALL FOR ISLAM ITSELF TO CHANGE...nothing will change! By hypocritically trying to let Islam off the hook you simply do all the propaganda work the terrorists could ever hope for.

All you are doing is sweeping the terrorist threat under the carpet and pretending that it`s nothing to do with you! Well it is...it`s all to do with you and your religion and until you acknowledge that you won`t change anything and you won`t gain any trust from non-Muslims.

Posted by: DaveyFreak at July 7, 2007 3:44 AM

Indeed - for years now the politically correct phrase "Asian community" has been used as a blanket term - rather than "Moslem community" or "Hindu community"

Somehow Asian Christians are not on the map of the PC world - which annoys me like crazy because India is full of Hindus and Christians and Parsis who manage to get along very well - unless a "certain community" flex their muscles.

Posted by: drk at July 7, 2007 5:20 AM

What is a bit disconcerting is the fact that the media unquestioningly lapped up the misquote from "the Koran: 'Whoever kills an innocent soul, it is as if he killed the whole of mankind. And whoever saves one, it is as if he saved the whole of mankind,'

instead of presenting the real quote from the Koran:

"Whoever killeth a human being, not in liew [sic] of another human being nor because of mischief on earth, it is as if he hath killed all mankind. And if he saveth a human life, he hath saved the life of all mankind." (Qur'an V/35)

By not pointing this out, clearly the myth of Islamic peace is perpetuated and the duplicity of the Muslims United coalition is hidden.

Shame on the media (nothing new).

The quoted section from Debbie Schlussel is actually taken from http://www.WhoKilledJA.com which chronicles a possible murder by a physician terrorist way back in 2003.

Medical terrorism has struck here already. It's just that awareness has not.

Posted by: veritas-emet at July 7, 2007 7:22 AM

PC cowards would rather insult the entire nation of India than identify terror suspects as "Muslim doctors from India".

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at July 7, 2007 1:46 PM

At the disgraceful, evil Evian conference in 1938, Australia, desperate for white settlers, followed England's and the poisonously anti-Semitic US State Department's lead and denied safe haven to the desperate Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. Now, Australia is being increasingly infested by Lebanese, Palestinian and Egyptian Arabs raping young underaged white girls (Arabs like young meat, lamb or girl), and Muslim doctors from India who seek to harm their white "infidel" patients. Imagine the "what could have been": imagine how stronger and safer Australia would be now if they let in just 100,000 Jews, contributing greatly to the country, with Jewish doctors, the best in the world, taking very good care of their patients.

Russlan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at July 7, 2007 1:59 PM

restive?....restless may be more accurate:...

Main Entry: restless
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: not content
Synonyms: active, agitated, antsy*, anxious, bustling, changeable, disturbed, edgy, fidgeting, fidgety, fitful, footloose*, fretful, hurried, inconstant, intermittent, irresolute, itchy*, jumpy, moving, nervous, nomadic, on edge, perturbed, restive, roving, sleepless, spasmodic, strung out*, transient, troubled, turbulent, uneasy, unpeaceful, unquiet, unrestful, unruly, unsettled, unstable, unsteady, wandering, worried
Antonyms: calm, peaceful

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 9, 2007 8:19 AM